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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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yoyoboy

Gov Cup Getting Canceled

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Let's see. James Muldoon is President of the Board of Trustees and the new riverfront center carries his name. He gets to strut his stuff down the Bay with Donnybrook every August.

 

New College President about to get schooled? Expect entry fee increase and a push for more sponsorships but I don't think it's at risk of being cancelled.

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Costs include a fancy dinner,

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I never remember thinking "Wow, I can't believe I got food this good for so little money" :rolleyes:

 

 

I was in the 400 boat fleets.

Sad to see races that aren't short course W/L dying off. Every boat that could float used to come out for the Gov Cup.

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The more boats the better. I'll see if any southern bay guys are interested

 

Kack, there is only one owner crazy enough to put 900 miles a year on his boat going to NB races...and I aint seen you on it.

 

If I do the Gov cup, there will have to be a one design class..

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I'd like to enter this race as well. I've reviewed the NOR from the last race. Course seems easy enough, it's just a long slog (for a newbie anyway). I notice that it's in July. Can anyone offer some insight as to what it's like? Is a drift-fest or what?

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Ajax,

 

We did it on a J/120 this past summer. Rolled into St. Marys in the morning. It's a fun race when there is wind so that you can run or reach down the bay. Beating or drifting it's got to be a hate mission.

 

I've just done it this one time. Moe and others have more insight to other years. KK was rolling into St. Marys after we had finished, had relaxed some, and were heading out. So he could give you a "slower" boats perspective.

 

All ways I see it as being painful on Shoes.

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I'd like to enter this race as well. I've reviewed the NOR from the last race. Course seems easy enough, it's just a long slog (for a newbie anyway). I notice that it's in July. Can anyone offer some insight as to what it's like? Is a drift-fest or what?

 

Of the 9 Gov Cups I've done, most all have had good wind (10-25 kts) going down the Bay during the night. About half were upwind, and half were downwind. But, the wind often shuts off, or goes very light, about the time you reach the Potomac or the St. Mary's River as the sun comes up. From then on, it can be tough going. But, still it's a great race!

...FC

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It can be a drifter or a sleighride or a brutal beat depending on the breeze.. small boats tend to get hung out to dry in the early morning. As often as not there are t-storms at some point during the night..

it is usually the first friday in August.

if you haven't done it, do it

if you have done it, do it again.

it would be a shame to see this race die.

but it is a victim of cultural shift away from distance races towards w/l's (the nascar of sailboat racing) and a schedule on the bay that requires one to take off 3 fridays out of 4 in order to do some of the better distance races on the bay. Two years ago Tred Avon moved their summer oxford race to Saturday and we were able to do it. Hard to swing those three races that close together

 

I dont remember any fancy dinners though ... usually take a car down so I can zip home and crash in my own bed. I've probably done this thing 20 times.. longest it ever took us was 24 hours.. and that would have been about 23 but we ran aground about 1/8 mile from the finish :blink:

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I have done a number of Gov Cups - a long time ago when we had 400. I always had wind. Might be light in the evening but would kick in about 10:00.

 

I found it boring. Almost the entire race spent in the dark looking at the lights of the powerplant. You arrive tired and sweaty in the morning only to start drinking and feeling like crap all day. then you have to take the boat back north, an all day event. Some love it but I am not one of those. Give me two hours of racing, an airconditioned bar, and my own bed.

 

I like distance racing but make it daylight and in the fall when there is a breeze and you can see the competition as well as Northbound ships.

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If that race is costing them money then somebody is doing it wrong. The beer and food are not free, are they not getting a piece of that? Just get a few sponsors and manage the thing correctly and it should at least break even. I think my first was in 87 and the parties were huge because I think the kids at school got into it more and the locals showed up because of decent bands.

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I'd like to enter this race as well. I've reviewed the NOR from the last race. Course seems easy enough, it's just a long slog (for a newbie anyway). I notice that it's in July. Can anyone offer some insight as to what it's like? Is a drift-fest or what?

 

Someone once showed me the formula for predicting Gov Cup conditions, based on soybean futures and the partial pressure of CO2 in the beer at the Davis Pub, but I can't remember it.

 

I suggest doing it on someone else's (bigger) boat before you commit. It can be mighty long with no wind. You might also consider the Solomons race (Screwpile feeder) for a taste of overnight drifting/screaming.

 

I hope the GC doesn't go away.

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I appreciate all the insight.

 

I realize that on a small boat, it'll be slower going and I'm willing to accept that, maybe there'll be some Cal 25's I can hang with, or a certain Tanzer 25 from Solomon's. One reason I want to participate, is because this is a race with history and I want to do it at least once.

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Ajax, This race in your boat would turn you off to sailing. You'd probably sink it right in Horseshoe Bend, if you ever made it.

 

Do it with mmerhrwerwrggtgdtgsetrrenstrn or someone like that..there are some logistics involved that are easier to figure out once you've been crew once or twice.

 

edit - no offense, but that Tanzer 25 would leave your boat in the dust...you'd have the Chesapeake all to yourself come sunrise! :(

 

No Cal 25's do it anymore, and very few Catalina 27s...they rate 210. if the weather sucks (too much or too little wind) no one wants to be out there at 3:00 PM the next day trying to get up the St. Mary's River.

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When I was there (90-94) the fleets were still huge, well up in the 300's. Through the 90's they remained big, and the event party was basically the St. Mary's Homecoming Game- it seemed as if anyone who had ever went there showed up for the party. The last few times I did it both the race (entries wise) and the party (amplitude wise) seemed like a ghost of their former self.

If someone can come up with a plan to make the event viable and attractive to the college, and revitalize the amount of entries, I'm all for it. But, if the two options were to have it continue as it is or let it pass into history, I'd let it go. The sport has changed- even in the 90's the event was kind of a throwback. St. Mary's (bless it) isn't really on the way to anywhere. For a while there, the race served as the feeder for the old Audi Race Week in Solomons - this kept the numbers up even after the trend had begun to shift away from distance racing and cruiser-racers towards W/L racing. This worked while that event was held, but Screwpile supplanted it, and Screwpile, as we know, already has a perfectly good feeder race.

As it is, SMC is an awfully long way to go simply to turn around and go back the next day.

However......if this is truly to be the last one, I'll be sure to go, on something fast (Sjambok probably) so I can start into the rum at 4 AM Saturday. And, I'll spread the word among all my old henchmen from the Offshore Sailing Team to show up and have the last party be a proper Gotterdammerung.

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Geeze guys, such faith in me and my boat! :P Light air isn't good for any older mono-hull, ask Mrgnstrn how this year's Fall Oxford turned out. It was something similar to what you're describing. I'm under no illusions about the time investment needed for this race. I've been hoarding vacation time at work for just this sort of thing, so I can take my time getting back. The way I see it, is I can drift on a 35' boat or I can drift on my boat, not much difference.

 

I think that one thing this race needs to be popular again is to schedule it in the Spring or Fall when the winds are a little more...well, a little "more".

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I think that one thing this race needs to be popular again is to schedule it in the Spring or Fall when the winds are a little more...well, a little "more".

 

 

Naw Ajax. Part of the alure of this race [for me at least] is sailing on a warm summer night!

...FC

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perhaps some of the fall off has been due to the success of screwpile and the feeder race to get there. much of the same territory, but without the last slog up the river, where as has been previously noted, many of the smaller boats get stuck come sunrise and the wind dropping out.

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I have done a ton of them from 1981 onwards.

I have got in to Saint Mary's in time for a good night's sleep after running the whole course under chute with speeds in the double digits :D

I have been on one or two where not everyone made it to the other end alive :(

I have been on the light air drift-fests. I have the honor of having been on the boat that holds the record for the LONGEST elapsed time ever. It was sunset SATURDAY when we finished and we still got third IIRC because so many people dropped out due to the heat and mirror calm conditions. We got no food either despite paying for it. It was long gone when we got up there.

 

I would HIGHLY suggest doing this as crew 1st and your boat second. If you do it yourself, please make sure you are set for night navigation and dealing with commercial traffic. This race has the potential to be truly dangerous between night thunderstorms, commercial traffic, and severe hangovers Sunday morning.

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have they tried a reverse order start yet? only problem I see is everyone getting to the river at the same time. maybe get the little shits off by 2pm and the faster group normal hours.

 

I think more smaller boats would do it if they finished earlier, nothing worse then sailing in the summer when the sun comes up and the breeze shuts off for a bit.

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I think that one thing this race needs to be popular again is to schedule it in the Spring or Fall when the winds are a little more...well, a little "more".

 

 

Naw Ajax. Part of the alure of this race [for me at least] is sailing on a warm summer night!

...FC

 

Ding ding ding, with you FC!

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<snip>

 

I would HIGHLY suggest doing this as crew 1st and your boat second. If you do it yourself, please make sure you are set for night navigation and dealing with commercial traffic. This race has the potential to be truly dangerous between night thunderstorms, commercial traffic, and severe hangovers Sunday morning.

 

K_I_S-

 

As a local with intimate knowledge of the Chesapeake, I've highly valued your input. I totally hear you about the risks, and I'm taking them seriously. Still though...not only is this about having "fun", for me it's also about accomplishment. Do I have the "juice"? And yeah, I'm aware that I'd damned well better have it because I'm responsible for the unlucky bastards that I bring along with me.:P

 

A race like this offers so many challenges... weather, current, navigation, darkness, commercial shipping, fatigue, hunger and it's not even offshore! During my brief tenure as DHIC (Dick Head In Charge), I discovered that I love trying to solve these tactical equations, getting into the other skippers' heads and seeing if I could find a better strategy.

 

In the meantime, I've been contacted about crewing on another boat instead of sailing mine, so we'll see how it all shakes out. I have plenty of months to practice my skills and upgrade the boat in case my ride changes his mind.

 

I really hope that someone keeps this race going.

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If you want to do it, keep in mind that thanks to us there is a time limit and you will score DNF if you don't make it. For practice, do something like sail from Annapolis to Oxford after dark. Be fully ready for a nasty thudnerstorm in the lower part of the course with no easy place to run for shelter. I have been on the Gov Cup when people went overboard and DIED :(

Make SURE you have good MOB gear for everyone. SOSpendors are a good start and I wear a waterproof VHF HT too at night. Crewing for others isn't "wimpy", it is doing recon. We have been proud to see our former crew headed down the course in their own boats :D

 

If you want to do it, keep in mind that thanks to us there is a time limit and you will score DNF if you don't make it. For practice, do something like sail from Annapolis to Oxford after dark. Be fully ready for a nasty thunderstorm in the lower part of the course with no easy place to run for shelter. I have been on the Gov Cup when people went overboard and DIED :(

Make SURE you have good MOB gear for everyone. SOSpendors are a good start and I wear a waterproof VHF HT too at night. Crewing for others isn't "wimpy", it is doing recon. We have been proud to see our former crew headed down the course in their own boats :D

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I'm with you Ajax. If next year might be the last for this race at least for a while, I'm inclined to try it on my 4knsb, though my sb is a lot more comfortable than yours. ;-) I've never done the Cup, but did DTB as crew so have some idea what to expect.

 

I recognize there are hazards that will have to be handled, but I'm confident enough in my skills and decsion making that I could safely skipper in this race. As a neophyte, I just have to recognize my limitations and be ready to pull the plug on the race if a safety concern arises.

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In 2008 I did this race on my Merit 25, we broke it, and motored home.

2009 a J35 winning our class, and got stuck on the potomac. Ended up 4th in class, 14th overall.

2010 was on a C&C 115, was a blast coming down the bay at night under the chute, then got stuck in the potomac.

 

Next year, I'll be back out battling with Akoni in the C/D fleet on my boat. I usually start praying in March for breeze out of the north. I slept 6 hours the 2 days before my first gov cup and another 2 while underway. No sleep in 09 or '10. 2011 I'm going to sleep, and hopefully be awake for the party (last year fell asleep on the side of the road at the college).

 

One issue with getting smaller/cruissie boats is that they put a time limit on the race. Remove the time limit, and more cruisers will come.

 

PS- KaptKriz, I'll look for you on the line for 2011 DTB! Can't be any worse than this year!

 

 

And Ajax, it can either be a blast, or a test of patients. But you'll never know unless you try. DTB sucked at the start (no wind) then it was good, then it sucked again (rain and wind for 8 hours), then it continued to blow on the nose. Something us little boats don't like too much. Point is, its just another race. Sometimes its good, sometimes it sucks, but it always beats working.

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I've done this in 08 on my boat, 09 and '10 I did on fast boats. Fast boats are fun, but it's not the same doing it on your own boat. Next year, I'm doing this race again on my boat. If you need some help planning, I did a small write up about the 08 race and have a little insight on feeding 4 adults with one small cooler. Just let me know.

 

KK - I'll be looking for you and Akoni at the start of Gov Cup. And the 2011 DTB. You know you want to...

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wait, they can't even get all of their trustees to give money to the college? there's a bigger problem than the gov cup here. that being said, that race is 100000% crap shoot, with an emphasis on the crap.

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wait, they can't even get all of their trustees to give to the college? there is something bigger than gov cup going on here. that being said, that race is 100000% crap shoot with an emphasis on crap.

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as usual, I have nothing to contribute but since this thread stopped displaying replies I have something to contribute.

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As was pointed out to me, ensuring that a competent relief helmsperson is onboard is really important. I'm not going to be a hero and try to drive for 24-30 hours. If I can't get the right crew together, I'll bow out or ride someone else's boat.

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Ajax,

 

That's good advice for any position on the boat for longer races. After a while you got to mix it up or you can get bored, and then it's not fun. It took us right around 12 hours last year and most of the crew had had turns at all of the positions by the time we finished. Longer timeframe than that and there would probably be some cat naps involved.

 

It's always a good idea to have crew who can do several positions but the longer race format also gives you (or your crew) time to train up on positions you haven't done or don't normally do.

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24-30 hours!

OUCH!

You won't make the time limit.

 

As was pointed out to me, ensuring that a competent relief helmsperson is onboard is really important. I'm not going to be a hero and try to drive for 24-30 hours. If I can't get the right crew together, I'll bow out or ride someone else's boat.

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Hey, it works! Now we can see it. Wierd.

 

As for the time limit, just a number I pulled out, disregard that. I'm just saying it's not safe to drive the whole thing. :)

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You absolutely need 1 other person fully qualified to run the boat - and patient!

I am not trying to bust your balls or bust on your boat, but in either light to no air or heavy air from the south that is one long trip in a 25 foot boat. You all need to be ready for more than a 3 hour tour :lol:

 

Hey, it works! Now we can see it. Wierd.

 

As for the time limit, just a number I pulled out, disregard that. I'm just saying it's not safe to drive the whole thing. :)

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I've done this race 3 times, won our class twice and took second the last time we did the race (PHRF C/D). Get on a fast ride if you can (anyone need crew on a double-digit boat?). Doing it by yourself is great and all, but generally the wind shuts down around 4am. If you aren't on a bigger boat, you'll still be at the mouth of the Patuxent by that point and it won't be a fun morning.

 

I doubt the race will be cancelled. 120 boats is still a lot of entries in this day and age, especially with the economy the way it has been. No major race, to my knowledge, is pushing the 400+ entries they saw in the 60/70's/80's. Times have changed, and boat haven't gotten cheaper!

 

I am close personal friends with the current sailing center of the Chesapeake manager (the boat I did the gov cup on is owned by him). They will keep the race alive if SMC drops out of it. Won't be as good an after party, thats for sure (will need to up the fees to make that happen)! It should also be noted that the sailing centers main purpose is to promote learning sailing and community involvement, with the secondary purpose building a site from which to host National, World Champion and Olympic level events from. I have not been to the current location, but the real reason for the location is Price Creek lies immediately adjacent to St. George's Creek. Stovy and I discovered sailing in St. George's beginning in the Spring of 2006 during high school practice; I have never, ever sailed an FJ faster in 10 years of racing them than I have sailed there. Flat water, 2+ mile upwind leg if you want it (pretty much unlimited if you go out into the Potomac). Zero powerboat traffic. This IS a top 5 sailing location in the United States. Stovy vowed to put a club on the site that was setup to handle the top level of sailboat racing in the United States, the center being the beginning of this.

 

SMSA is more interested in selling beer on the Island than racing these days, I doubt they will pick up another major race, Screwpile is the limit of their existing resources.

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wonder if it'l work once it reaches enough posts to make it to the third page

 

 

 

 

150

 

 

btw, I called that shit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

146

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Have they announced dates for this yet? And entry fees?

 

I'd like to plan to do this, especially if it's the last year for the race.

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mmmm, soo tempting...... :ph34r:

 

KK - I'll be looking for you and Akoni at the start of Gov Cup. And the 2011 DTB. You know you want to...

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naah, it's only 16hrs in a 4ksb....helm the whole thing.

 

Hey, it works! Now we can see it. Wierd.

 

As for the time limit, just a number I pulled out, disregard that. I'm just saying it's not safe to drive the whole thing. :)

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I've been by. It's a beautiful chunk of water and has a great field that would be suitable for a party given some logistics. Depth of water immediately near the site could be an issue for the A0 boats. Glad to hear SCC would be willing to sponsor the race.

 

I've done this race 3 times, won our class twice and took second the last time we did the race (PHRF C/D). Get on a fast ride if you can (anyone need crew on a double-digit boat?). Doing it by yourself is great and all, but generally the wind shuts down around 4am. If you aren't on a bigger boat, you'll still be at the mouth of the Patuxent by that point and it won't be a fun morning.

 

I doubt the race will be cancelled. 120 boats is still a lot of entries in this day and age, especially with the economy the way it has been. No major race, to my knowledge, is pushing the 400+ entries they saw in the 60/70's/80's. Times have changed, and boat haven't gotten cheaper!

 

I am close personal friends with the current sailing center of the Chesapeake manager (the boat I did the gov cup on is owned by him). They will keep the race alive if SMC drops out of it. Won't be as good an after party, thats for sure (will need to up the fees to make that happen)! It should also be noted that the sailing centers main purpose is to promote learning sailing and community involvement, with the secondary purpose building a site from which to host National, World Champion and Olympic level events from. I have not been to the current location, but the real reason for the location is Price Creek lies immediately adjacent to St. George's Creek. Stovy and I discovered sailing in St. George's beginning in the Spring of 2006 during high school practice; I have never, ever sailed an FJ faster in 10 years of racing them than I have sailed there. Flat water, 2+ mile upwind leg if you want it (pretty much unlimited if you go out into the Potomac). Zero powerboat traffic. This IS a top 5 sailing location in the United States. Stovy vowed to put a club on the site that was setup to handle the top level of sailboat racing in the United States, the center being the beginning of this.

 

SMSA is more interested in selling beer on the Island than racing these days, I doubt they will pick up another major race, Screwpile is the limit of their existing resources.

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SMSA is more interested in selling beer on the Island than racing these days, I doubt they will pick up another major race, Screwpile is the limit of their existing resources.

 

 

That, samc99us, is one Bull Shit assertion!

...FC

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I doubt the race will be cancelled. 120 boats is still a lot of entries in this day and age, especially with the economy the way it has been. No major race, to my knowledge, is pushing the 400+ entries they saw in the 60/70's/80's. Times have changed, and boat haven't gotten cheaper!

 

This IS a top 5 sailing location in the United States. Stovy vowed to put a club on the site that was setup to handle the top level of sailboat racing in the United States, the center being the beginning of this.

 

SMSA is more interested in selling beer on the Island than racing these days, I doubt they will pick up another major race, Screwpile is the limit of their existing resources.

 

I have to agree. St. Mary's river, St. Georges creek is one of my favorite places to sail. Considering that's where I keep my boat. :)

 

Samc99, shoot me a PM if you guys need some help down there.

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This is funny:

 

Most of the online media-blurps about Gov Cup I've found state the course record is held by Jim Muldoon's "Donnybrook", with a time of 6 hours, 9 minutes (6:09), set in 1993. ORLY?!?...

 

In 2006 I was on a boat ("Wild Card') which finished in a time of 5 hours 46 minutes and 7 seconds (5:47:7). Arguably, that time would have been 20-30 minutes fater if we hadn't run into problems with the genoa furling system, and been forced to used our blade jib while tacking up the river(s) to St. Marys "City" in a dying beeze.

 

So, 5:47<6:09, but whatevs...

 

Muldoon got happing mad when we tied-up in "his spot" on the SMCM docks. He told us to move, and one of ours guys yelled back, "I thought the winner gets to dock here!"

 

The following year, on the same boat, the mast came down about 15 minutes ofter the start. DERP! When the A0's started passing us (multihull started first) Muldoon sure as hell made a point of "offering assistance."

 

Those are my Gov Cup stories...

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how come I can't see posts 27 thru 62? :huh:

go to the other Gov Cup thread... click on the link that Catalina36 posted and everything will be there. Apparently something's screwed up in how the linking to page 2 works. <_<

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i would be interested in doing this race on one of these so-called Merit 25s some time in the future.

 

A bunch of us did this race on a C27 back in the day. Took forever, but we had a blast. 4ksb? no problem.

 

btw, not everything is there on the Catalina36 link...my lovely, eloquent original post to Ajax is gone, atomized into the nether-world of

cyber garbage, lost forever....too bad...it was like poetry, only better.

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even with the wrong crew, from temp to temp.

 

btw, IIRC, some old boys did it on a J24 a couple years back and smoked a bunch of the big boats. I think it was mentioned on SA and there might have been a vid. I dunno, I can't seem to remember jack these days.

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SMSA is more interested in selling beer on the Island than racing these days, I doubt they will pick up another major race, Screwpile is the limit of their existing resources.

 

 

That, samc99us, is one Bull Shit assertion!

...FC

 

Thanks FC...

 

 

samc99us, I am not sure I like your tone regarding SMSA. We even moved one of our weekend races to avoid a conflict with the Summer Challenge in August.

And let me remind you SMSA hosted the Buccaneer North American Championship this year in June where we had almost 40 boats from all over the country, including Canada, race for a week on the Patuxent. And then we hosted Screwpile less than a month later so our club is NOT just interested in selling beer on the Island!

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even with the wrong crew, from temp to temp.

 

btw, IIRC, some old boys did it on a J24 a couple years back and smoked a bunch of the big boats. I think it was mentioned on SA and there might have been a vid. I dunno, I can't seem to remember jack these days.

 

 

 

no they didnt smoke big boats, they won their class. i sailed on the overall winning boat that year and it wasnt a j-24...

 

I still think if they changed the starting times it would be a better race for sub 30 footers. hell even have them start in the morning on Friday so they can be don by the time the big boats just stat turning the corner into the river.

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Glitter, I like your thinking. What do you think it would take to get the hosting organization to consider modifications? If we can "sell" it to them as a means of increasing participation, they might be amenable. I'd be willing to beat the bushes to encourage more small boats to jump in.

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I didn't say they smoked "every fucking big boat in the fleet" Richard.

But they did put a hurt on a lot of boats with larger LOA. In all honesty, I couldn't remember whether or not they even bothered to sign -up..but I may be getting them confused with the M24 that did the ChiMac.

 

Way to go, hombre...you are such a rock star.

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I didn't say they smoked "every fucking big boat in the fleet" Richard.

But they did put a hurt on a lot of boats with larger LOA. In all honesty, I couldn't remember whether or not they even bothered to sign -up..but I may be getting them confused with the M24 that did the ChiMac.

 

Way to go, hombre...you are such a rock star.

 

 

wow testy. just pointing out the facts whomever you are.

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Just a 'round the buoys hack with a crappy race record. That's all.

 

 

thats ok, it would be hard to match my record...anyways I checked out your build since I have no clue who you are, nice work. maybe you can finish govcup by dawn. good luck with it, im jealous.

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2006, J-24 ':BLINK' was 3rd overall in a fleet of 148:

 

I didn't say they smoked "every fucking big boat in the fleet" Richard.

But they did put a hurt on a lot of boats with larger LOA. In all honesty, I couldn't remember whether or not they even bothered to sign -up..but I may be getting them confused with the M24 that did the ChiMac.

 

Way to go, hombre...you are such a rock star.

 

 

wow testy. just pointing out the facts whomever you are.

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finish before dawn behind a Protector 28 maybe ;)

coffee deficit this a.m., Glitter, sorry if i was peevish.

good find with the search function, kkriz, that thing is beyond my comprehension....cripes, that was '06? Seems like last year.

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SMSA is more interested in selling beer on the Island than racing these days, I doubt they will pick up another major race, Screwpile is the limit of their existing resources.

 

 

That, samc99us, is one Bull Shit assertion!

...FC

 

Thanks FC...

 

 

samc99us, I am not sure I like your tone regarding SMSA. We even moved one of our weekend races to avoid a conflict with the Summer Challenge in August.

And let me remind you SMSA hosted the Buccaneer North American Championship this year in June where we had almost 40 boats from all over the country, including Canada, race for a week on the Patuxent. And then we hosted Screwpile less than a month later so our club is NOT just interested in selling beer on the Island!

 

Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh on the club, they have been supporting sailing in Southern Maryland for a long time, and supported me when I knew very little about sailing. Yes, there are several boats that are competitive on a national level. I'm not sure how you managed a 40 boat Buccaneer fleet given the current locations, which is a poor dinghy site (albeit one of the few options in the immediate area available when the club needed space ASAP). The general quality of the Wednesday night and weekend course racing has been lacking of late but that is equally every members responsibility in assuming PRO duties and doing a good job. Perhaps I am spoiled in this area, having been racing on regional and national level courses setup by some of the best. Wednesday night at least is more about practicing and having fun than anything else, but doing two reaching legs back to back, and then again in the next race can get a bit dull.

 

I leave you with one question: IF, and its a really BIG IF, SMC drops the Gov Cup, will SMSA rise to the plate and carry on the race?

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SMSA hosted around 82 days of racing this year....hardly a club that has forgotten about racing....granted we like to drink beer.

 

As far as a poor dinghy area...hard to find a better one on the Chesapeake, and the racers who competed in the Buccaneer Championship loved the venue....

 

Besides...so what if one race dies... aren't there bigger issues to deal with? 37 years is a good run for anything. If the market can't bear it anymore, then the market can't bear it.

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Jimmy,

 

I dig what you're saying about the market, but this race has some historical significance. Plus, I don't want to see the variety of races dwindle to just W/L here on the Bay. Although I've only done one w/l regatta, I enjoyed it and it was very challenging but I think that the Gov Cup and DTB challenge you on a whole different set of skills.

 

Endurance, navigation, night time sailing, long term strategic planning, even provisioning.

 

The current mix of available races is great. There are plenty of w/l regattas, mid-length races like NASS Oxford and Poplar Island, and then the longer ones. This lets new guys like me, get into the scene in a safe, controlled manner.

 

I do understand the impact of dwindling participation though, and maybe some of the newer regattas could be discontinued, or consolidated with other events. There's been endless speculation about the lack of participation in sailing overall. Part of me just wants to scream "It's the economy, stupid" but there are probably other factors along with that. I "sell" sailing to anyone who expresses even mild curiosity about it. From Solomons to Annapolis, sailors have been nothing but encouraging towards me. These people are serious about keeping things going.

 

Bottom line:

 

Keep a variety of races going, keep the historical races going, consolidate newer, less significant events, make modifications to events if it will boost participation. Sell the sport.

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Jimmy,

 

 

Bottom line:

 

Keep a variety of races going, keep the historical races going, consolidate newer, less significant events, make modifications to events if it will boost participation. Sell the sport.

 

 

Historical Races???? Historical races require ... HISTORY... you would recognize HISTORY by the availability of records, regatta reports from the day.... Photo's of the boats and winners from each year.

 

Without HISTORY... the Gov Cup is just another overnight long race on the bay... and a fading memory for ever older sailors.

 

HISTORY sustains a race after the fad appeal dies off because the sailors know they are part of the long thread and the event is something more then a weekend of sailing.

 

Sailors know this... we engrave the name of the winning yacht on perpetual trophies of silver. We have not kept this important tradition updated for the new century. (rant over)

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And if no one decided to keep racing to Bermuda? Or Hobart? Or Hawaii? There would be no history of those either. That's a rediculous statement. If you want something to have meaning and history, take part in it, make history, don't wait 50-100 years for something to be already established, sign up one year and say "I'm part of a historical regatta!".

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You make a valid point. It's easier as a new person to join a well established event though. You, as a locally experienced racer can look at a "new" event and make an educated guess as to whether or not the organization running it has a clue, if the venue is sucky, and whether or not it has the potential to grow legs and become a long running, annual event.

 

When I get to where you are, I'll start making history. :D

 

 

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And if no one decided to keep racing to Bermuda? Or Hobart? Or Hawaii? There would be no history of those either. That's a rediculous statement. If you want something to have meaning and history, take part in it, make history, don't wait 50-100 years for something to be already established, sign up one year and say "I'm part of a historical regatta!".

 

And if no one decided to keep racing to Bermuda? Or Hobart? Or Hawaii? There would be no history of those either. That's a rediculous statement.

 

If a tree falls in the forest.... (Hmm.... tell the Vikings that they got credit for sailing to North America.)

 

Recorded History provides a context which shapes and to a large degree elevates the present day experience. For instance... the LAST Gov Cup regatta will have a notable context... It will be the period mark on a long and now undistinguished string of races. Keeping records... highlighting record setting performances,would have given this race a real historical context. We screwed up by not keeping these records and archiving this history.

 

It is more accurate to describe the Gov Cup as... just a long running race... which is not very popular anymore.

 

To your other point... re.. just do it... by all means... sail from Annapolis to St Marys City, the memories are uniquely yours. ... Join a racing community and race from Annapolis to St Mary's City... you can share the memories around the bar...(Made it to the dock before light) Participate in a Historical Race.... err... well... we frittered that possibility away.... Sorry about that!

 

We are just getting around to building a sailing hall of fame to archive some of our recorded history.

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You make a valid point. It's easier as a new person to join a well established event though. You, as a locally experienced racer can look at a "new" event and make an educated guess as to whether or not the organization running it has a clue, if the venue is sucky, and whether or not it has the potential to grow legs and become a long running, annual event.

 

When I get to where you are, I'll start making history. :D

 

Was this directed at me? B/c I don't have much experience. My point was, do the races you want, even if they're only historical to you. It's all that matters.

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Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh on the club, they have been supporting sailing in Southern Maryland for a long time, and supported me when I knew very little about sailing. Yes, there are several boats that are competitive on a national level. I'm not sure how you managed a 40 boat Buccaneer fleet given the current locations, which is a poor dinghy site (albeit one of the few options in the immediate area available when the club needed space ASAP). The general quality of the Wednesday night and weekend course racing has been lacking of late but that is equally every members responsibility in assuming PRO duties and doing a good job. Perhaps I am spoiled in this area, having been racing on regional and national level courses setup by some of the best. Wednesday night at least is more about practicing and having fun than anything else, but doing two reaching legs back to back, and then again in the next race can get a bit dull.

 

I leave you with one question: IF, and its a really BIG IF, SMC drops the Gov Cup, will SMSA rise to the plate and carry on the race?

 

To answer your two questions:

BNAC: We "managed" 40 boats at BNAC because:

1) SMSA has a reputation for excellent race management and our PRO and group of SMSA volunteers did an outstanding job as always.

2) SMSA has a reputation for throwing great parties, it is not just all about the racing, and once again SMSA volunteers did not disappoint. We all had a blast!

3) JimmyY did an outstanding job marketing and recruiting boats within the Buccaneer 18 fleet. We only had 7 local boats or so.

4) Solomons Island is a beautiful venue, peeps want to visit and experience the town. Although your sailing area is beautiful for the sailing and wildlife THERE IS NOTHING else there (no offense), amateur sailors want more than just a nice racing area. Sure if you are qualifying for the Olympics different story but that is a tiny fraction of regattas.

5) The Buccaneer fleet in general is a great fun bunch of sailors that will travel to events.

 

SMSA can take credit for the first 4 and as JimmyY points out we have a very nice spot for dinghies, not sure why you are so negative on that?

 

Gov Cup:

I am the incoming Vice Commodore so IF SMC tanks sponsorship of Gov Cup I would have some say in what we did as a club. To be honest I am not sure. But what do you mean by "stepping up to the plate"? Why would we as a club have any "responsibility" in keeping a race going that we have had little involvement in and starts and ends nowhere near SMSA. It would make more sense for one of the Annapolis clubs to take it on or a club located near SMC like you guys. So I say we probably would not but would run the numbers IF SMC did drop it. I will say I am shocked they loose money on this race, how???

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It is more accurate to describe the Gov Cup as... just a long running race... which is not very popular anymore.

 

 

 

At over 120 boats in 2010 it would appear that the Gov Cup is still popular. This may not be large for other regions but on the Chesapeake very few events have better numbers. Hopefuly SMC can adjust the event a bit to keep from loosing money.

 

 

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History? Nothing in business is worth doing merely for history. History is great for explaining why things happen...and for helping to shape future decisions, but

history is all this race is going to be if it continues to take an $18000 loss.

 

120 boats is a great regatta, and perhaps if SMC doesn't want to do it anymore, and if they are losing $18000 on the thing...they will drop it, then someone else will

evaluate whether or not they can turn it around, after all it does have a history of bringing out large crowds....but the only history that matters right now is that it is losing money.

 

All of the great historical races started out as a new idea. If there is something newer that is drawing more support then it shouldn't be dropped just because it isn't "historical"

 

Sailing is losing out. We're losing out because of many variables. The economy is one, but not the only. When sailing was at its peak in the 70's and 80's people were having fun.

 

I wasn't sailing in the 80's but earlier in the thread someone stated------in the earlier days of this race everybody who had a boat on the bay that could make the journey tried...or at least

it seemed that way.

 

I think in today's sailing scene people are worried too much about being in the fastest boat...gotta win, gotta be there for breakfast....gotta beat the ever shortening time limit!

Earlier in the thread folks were discouraging people from entering because their boat was too slow....Hmmm....was this the way folks were thinking when there were 300-400 boats in the race?

 

I doubt that the majority of the 300-400 boats who entered the race when it was at its peak even dreamed about being in the front. They just wanted to do it because it would be fun...

because they wanted to be part of something historical...because they wanted to scratch a big race off of their bucket list, because their friends were doing it...

because they like cruising down the bay at night....because the party was second to none...because they could spend an entire weekend with their family, or friends

before school was back in session for the fall,

 

Just because..............

 

 

 

As for cancelling it, I don't think this race should be canceled. But I won't pay $18,000 a year to make sure it sticks around. I appreciate history, and the lessons learned from it..

not just the names and dates engraved on a dusty plaque----

that I will too soon be too old to read.

 

I want to be part of a history that sustained the fun of sailing for generations to come.

I'm new to this game, but have already taken a lifetime of joy from it...

and I want others to know how great it can be.

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StMC needs to determine where they lost money. Was it on the dinner? The shirt and hat sales? The RC expenses? The party? The amenities-like the shuttle buses? The charity they support? There are many possibilities, but they can do the math - even at a liberal arts college!

 

I've done this race sporadically over the past 3 decades. I've seen the 300 boat fleets and the lesser ones. I've reveled in the big blows, like '94 (RIP Steve.) and cursed the drifters like '00 when the humidity set off the fog horn at Cove Point and the CG rescued crew members with heat exhaustion. Even the thunderstorm at the finish line in '08 was exciting!

 

The logistics are a pain in the butt for a northern bay boat. But I did it for the race, the competition, personal satisfaction, and the memories - even the bad ones! (I don't care about the parties anymore - I guess that comes with age.)

 

They'll work this out and the race will go on. They just need to tighten their belt, keep the race affordable for everyone and cut out the fluff.

 

'Nuff said.

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An earlier start for the Cruising class so that those boats could be done in time for the party seems like something that could encourage more participation from the cruising set if you want/need more boats to keep your event viable.

 

I think distance races present the kind of challenges that are more likely to appeal to cruising sailors than buoy racing (at least they do for me). For folks like me, just completing the race would be an accomplishment we could take some satisfaction in, but if your going to the effort, expense and hassle of overcoming the logistical issues, you'd like to be there for the party.

 

 

 

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<snip>

 

Sailing is losing out. We're losing out because of many variables. The economy is one, but not the only. When sailing was at its peak in the 70's and 80's people were having fun.

 

I wasn't sailing in the 80's but earlier in the thread someone stated------in the earlier days of this race everybody who had a boat on the bay that could make the journey tried...or at least

it seemed that way.

 

I think in today's sailing scene people are worried too much about being in the fastest boat...gotta win, gotta be there for breakfast....gotta beat the ever shortening time limit!

Earlier in the thread folks were discouraging people from entering because their boat was too slow....Hmmm....was this the way folks were thinking when there were 300-400 boats in the race?

 

Exactly. I wasn't worried about being in the forefront during my local Frostbites and I'm not even thinking about it for the Gov's Cup.

 

I gotta tell you, just general attitudes of society today are probably the bigger problem for sailing than the economy. I took a bunch of co-workers out for a short sail over to a restaurant for a crab feast. They all really enjoyed themselves but the most often repeated statement was "Man, this is a lot of work!" Look, I'm 5'11" and over 200 lbs. I'm far from the pinnacle of health but even I'm not that god damned lazy. If people today can't mash a gas pedal, push a throttle quadrant or twist a throttle grip, then they just aren't interested. People today just can't see the art of the boat in motion, or the pride of having an age-old skill and frankly, I have no idea how to combat that except to make it look as hip and as exciting as possible.

 

 

I doubt that the majority of the 300-400 boats who entered the race when it was at its peak even dreamed about being in the front. They just wanted to do it because it would be fun...

because they wanted to be part of something historical...because they wanted to scratch a big race off of their bucket list, because their friends were doing it...

because they like cruising down the bay at night....because the party was second to none...because they could spend an entire weekend with their family, or friends

before school was back in session for the fall,

 

Just because..............

 

 

 

As for cancelling it, I don't think this race should be canceled. But I won't pay $18,000 a year to make sure it sticks around. I appreciate history, and the lessons learned from it..

not just the names and dates engraved on a dusty plaque----

that I will too soon be too old to read.

 

I want to be part of a history that sustained the fun of sailing for generations to come.

I'm new to this game, but have already taken a lifetime of joy from it...

and I want others to know how great it can be.

 

I agree with this also. I'm not saying that some organization should take a tens of thousands of dollar hit on the race every year though. Hopefully it can be organized in a way that is at least "break even", if not profitable. I guess I should start getting into the organization "scene" so that I can learn what it takes to host an event like this, what it takes to make it attractive and pay for itself.

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Back in the 400 boat era they had to start putting qualifications on the entries if you can believe it. The number of people who really shouldn't have been out in a crowd or at night started to be a hazard. I bet they wish they had that problem now!

As for discouraging anyone, I can only speak for me. I'm not telling anyone not to go, but I also feel like making sure people know what they are getting into. Having the course record for the LATEST to finish, I know what I am talking about :o

As for greater trends, once racing evolved to the point no one wants to stay on the boats, anything outside of dinghy sized courses gets to be an expensive operation with complicated logistics.

 

History? Nothing in business is worth doing merely for history. History is great for explaining why things happen...and for helping to shape future decisions, but

history is all this race is going to be if it continues to take an $18000 loss.

 

120 boats is a great regatta, and perhaps if SMC doesn't want to do it anymore, and if they are losing $18000 on the thing...they will drop it, then someone else will

evaluate whether or not they can turn it around, after all it does have a history of bringing out large crowds....but the only history that matters right now is that it is losing money.

 

All of the great historical races started out as a new idea. If there is something newer that is drawing more support then it shouldn't be dropped just because it isn't "historical"

 

Sailing is losing out. We're losing out because of many variables. The economy is one, but not the only. When sailing was at its peak in the 70's and 80's people were having fun.

 

I wasn't sailing in the 80's but earlier in the thread someone stated------in the earlier days of this race everybody who had a boat on the bay that could make the journey tried...or at least

it seemed that way.

 

I think in today's sailing scene people are worried too much about being in the fastest boat...gotta win, gotta be there for breakfast....gotta beat the ever shortening time limit!

Earlier in the thread folks were discouraging people from entering because their boat was too slow....Hmmm....was this the way folks were thinking when there were 300-400 boats in the race?

 

I doubt that the majority of the 300-400 boats who entered the race when it was at its peak even dreamed about being in the front. They just wanted to do it because it would be fun...

because they wanted to be part of something historical...because they wanted to scratch a big race off of their bucket list, because their friends were doing it...

because they like cruising down the bay at night....because the party was second to none...because they could spend an entire weekend with their family, or friends

before school was back in session for the fall,

 

Just because..............

 

 

 

As for cancelling it, I don't think this race should be canceled. But I won't pay $18,000 a year to make sure it sticks around. I appreciate history, and the lessons learned from it..

not just the names and dates engraved on a dusty plaque----

that I will too soon be too old to read.

 

I want to be part of a history that sustained the fun of sailing for generations to come.

I'm new to this game, but have already taken a lifetime of joy from it...

and I want others to know how great it can be.

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I guess I should start getting into the organization "scene" so that I can learn what it takes to host an event like this, what it takes to make it attractive and pay for itself.

 

 

 

We should all be on the organizational scene......if you are reading this forum, you know enough about sailing to know that

sailing is a social sport, and needs supporters like you and me to spend time promoting our events...those we sponsor,

and those we attend. So find a club, or class association, get involved and help be part of the solution.

 

People who know me know that I don't care about this race, but I do care about this sport, and if you care about something

you make it work, you make it a priority, and you let others know.

 

Be part of the scene.

 

thanks folks but I need to return my rented soap-box

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