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eric e

tnt34

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seems it's Polish, i think it is the extra width that makes it look odd

 

8.5mtr, seems to be a telescoping farrier system

 

http://www.all-about...folding-system/

 

1st the poles made a trimaran called the eXploder

 

and now 1 called the tnt...

 

 

This is a novel way to approach folding developed by J.Kostanski in 2009 and subject to patent.

The idea was to combine two movements into firstly sliding and then pivot as the beams are coming in via

60 cm long sleeve. Float is supported by water due to small designed buoyancy thus making folding

possible. On the trailer the floats are tacked away under the main hull without any disassembly .

The sleeve is acting as solid long holder once bolted to the deck (similar bolting takes place on Farrier

system). Once the beam is locked in the sleeve the float is fixed via cantilever to the main hull .To reduce forces a

S/S wire struts will be provided for each float. Sliding will be easy thanks Teflon strips inside the sleeve. The folding in will be also quick and effortless

due to using the winch on the deck . Boat hook will be used to unfold while float is displaced by its own

initial buoyancy .

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMl7tvYy0Lg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fvv8o9q1EE&feature=related

 

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Posted · Hidden by unShirley, December 19, 2010 - I didn't realize that Motor Cat had started a differnt thread already
Hidden by unShirley, December 19, 2010 - I didn't realize that Motor Cat had started a differnt thread already

Check out the ornaments: Motor Cat 30 and 29. A good friend of mine has a Motor Cat 30. It is a pretty cool boat that we have had lots of good surf trips on.

It does have a wierd step under the waterline just ahead of the transoms, tho. I am not quite sure what that is about. The cockpit of the tri is very similar to the cockpit of the Motor Cat 30.

And why the twin rudders? Is that just to straddle the OB? Why not put them on the amas? Too expensive? Does one really need two operating stations (tiller and wheel)?

I'd crack a polish joke about some of the design features, but phreddo might lampoon it on the FP

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Maybe it's done that way so he can mount an outboard motor in the middle. Why that would be important I don't know. MacGregor did a 26' mono like that: a huge OB on the transom and rudders either side. Makes a little more sense on a mono (heeling you know).

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I don't get the twin rudders either and the photos in the other thread make it look like the outboard wont tilt up, it has tiller and wheel steering and the telescoping mechanism shown in these videos wont work once the cabin top is installed?!?

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Rudders should be moved to the amas and the outboard removable. Is this a cruiser, cruiser-racer (what isn't?) or a pure racer? The latter I would say is out based on the current rendering.

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Posted · Hidden by motorcat, December 20, 2010 - double posted
Hidden by motorcat, December 20, 2010 - double posted

Rudders should be moved to the amas and the outboard removable. Is this a cruiser, cruiser-racer (what isn't?) or a pure racer? The latter I would say is out based on the current rendering.

This paricular unit is cruiser/racer (to beat DF 35 or F 36 or F 33 X) but with beam of 28 ft and 50 ft mast we can easily have racer /crusier

Tilting no problem

 

See the pictures with twin ruders and tillted 25 hp O/B

 

The advantages of this set up is as follows:

 

 

  • More ruder area less leeway

 

  • When heeled TnT still has better grip than single rudder

 

  • O/B is centered =better flow =speed 40-50 hp should give us 10-12 knots

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Rudders should be moved to the amas and the outboard removable. Is this a cruiser, cruiser-racer (what isn't?) or a pure racer? The latter I would say is out based on the current rendering.

This paricular unit is cruiser/racer (to beat DF 35 or F 36 or F 33 X) but with beam of 28 ft and 50 ft mast we can easily have racer /crusier

Tilting no problem

 

See the pictures with twin ruders and tillted 25 hp O/B

 

The advantages of this set up is as follows:

 

 

  • More ruder area less leeway

 

  • When heeled TnT still has better grip than single rudder

 

  • O/B is centered =better flow =speed 40-50 hp should give us 10-12 knots

post-49251-053140600 1292842394_thumb.jpg

post-49251-075916800 1292842426_thumb.jpg

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Overall it really doesn't look too bad.

But I do not like the twin rudder/huge outboard idea.

 

With the sliding/folding system, what's the height on a trailer? Looks like it would be very high.

 

I think you'd be better recieved if you left out any mention of that stupid quadracat in your adverts.

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Overall it really doesn't look too bad.

But I do not like the twin rudder/huge outboard idea.

 

With the sliding/folding system, what's the height on a trailer? Looks like it would be very high.

 

I think you'd be better recieved if you left out any mention of that stupid quadracat in your adverts.

 

Outboard 15-50 hp.50 is huge but may give 12 knots which is double of "normal speeds"Twin rudder when TNT is heeled to 10 deg and more is a blessing.Many other tris loose grip at that angle.Also more rudder area less leeway=more speed.

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With the sliding/folding system, what's the height on a trailer? Looks like it would be very high.

 

I think you'd be better recieved if you left out any mention of that stupid quadracat in your adverts.

 

The height of TNT 34 on trailer with beams up is 14 feet.

 

 

Quad 28 was 1650 kg but wave resistance of narrow hulls (3) was less

than two hulls of tris .This is why Quad 28 came second in 3 hrs on a beam reach regatta in Vancouver in 1997 ahead of bigger tris ,cats and mono .

 

 

Maximum allowed height of a vehicle and its freight in the European Union is 4 m, you will need a special permit to transport the boat in this configuration. You won't pass under a lot of viaducts, so special planning of your itinerary is required as well

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Folding system slides well on workshop floor with wheels supporting the hull. How does it slide when the waves and the buyoancy on the hull in water disaligns the system a bit? I predict very short working life for the sleeves before the boat starts to twist due to the gap on sleeves and beams..

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With the sliding/folding system, what's the height on a trailer? Looks like it would be very high.

 

I think you'd be better recieved if you left out any mention of that stupid quadracat in your adverts.

 

The height of TNT 34 on trailer with beams up is 14 feet.

 

 

Quad 28 was 1650 kg but wave resistance of narrow hulls (3) was less

than two hulls of tris .This is why Quad 28 came second in 3 hrs on a beam reach regatta in Vancouver in 1997 ahead of bigger tris ,cats and mono .

 

 

Maximum allowed height of a vehicle and its freight in the European Union is 4 m, you will need a special permit to transport the boat in this configuration. You won't pass under a lot of viaducts, so special planning of your itinerary is required as well

 

Except France , UK , Sweden , Norway and most of US States ,where the heigth limit is 4,5 m . Anyway regarding to trailers at 2,9 m wide, towing will just require a permit , but this is usually a simple process. The problems started from 3,05 m beam , which beyond let to organize special transport , We have a hope as well that , when we proceed to the construction of the trailer, we will be closer to 4 than 4.5 m

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Folding system slides well on workshop floor with wheels supporting the hull. How does it slide when the waves and the buyoancy on the hull in water disaligns the system a bit? I predict very short working life for the sleeves before the boat starts to twist due to the gap on sleeves and beams..

 

do not worry please we have special reinforcments with 3 mm ss 5 strips on the beam and teflon inside the sleeve

 

 

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I would think that trimarans loose steering because of the growing trend towards large capacity outer hulls. A deep rudder is really what is required, not two.

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I would think that trimarans loose steering because of the growing trend towards large capacity outer hulls. A deep rudder is really what is required, not two.

 

In an ideal world two rudders but on floats not a main hull

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I would think that trimarans loose steering because of the growing trend towards large capacity outer hulls. A deep rudder is really what is required, not two.

 

In an ideal world two rudders but on floats not a main hull

 

So why not on the TNT 34?blink.gif

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I would think that trimarans loose steering because of the growing trend towards large capacity outer hulls. A deep rudder is really what is required, not two.

 

In an ideal world two rudders but on floats not a main hull

 

So why not on the TNT 34?blink.gif

 

To complicated for folding tri

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TNT 34 buiding progress :

230 – top view

 

766 – double rudder with space for O/B between them

 

804 - unfolded position to total 28 ft beam (8.5 m)

 

814 –marina beam of 13 ft(3.9 m)

 

934 – interior mock up , it will be spacious

 

 

976 - deck fits perfectly

 

post-49251-047583700 1299828488_thumb.jpg

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post-49251-088925600 1299828692_thumb.jpg

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I have been recieving updates on this fine craft. looks awesome..

I couldnt imagine who would be able to afford one.

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Posted · Hidden by motorcat, July 15, 2011 - mistakes
Hidden by motorcat, July 15, 2011 - mistakes

Sorry for keeping You silent but we must to slow down the project regarding to building the next power cats from our Motorcat line http://www.facebook.com/pages/Motorcat/105649256196055

 

Now we back to finish TNT 34 and hope to be ready for test in the second part of Septemebr

 

Folow the below link included the movie taken yesterday in the shipyard and see attached picture attached pictures

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-New-Trimaran/182095355155213

 

 

 

post-49251-099341900 1310720894_thumb.jpg

post-49251-049038400 1310720914_thumb.jpg

post-49251-083428600 1310720932_thumb.jpg

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Sorry for keeping You silent but we must to slow down the project regarding to building the next power cats from our Motorcat line

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Motorcat/105649256196055

Now we back to finish TNT 34 and hope to be ready for test in the second part of Septemebr

Folow the below link included the movie taken yesterday in the shipyard and see attached pictures

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ne...55213&comments

post-49251-004438100 1310723825_thumb.jpg

post-49251-098816900 1310723859_thumb.jpg

post-49251-087723000 1310723887_thumb.jpg

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ready to paint and steering

 

why have the 2 rudders that close and parallel? interesting concept.

 

 

At least there is a choice for one or two as required to reduce drag

Shape \ DRAG for taller and thicker single rudder is about the same but now there is lesser loss of steering in hard heel

Plus loss of single you have nothing to steer

Plus o\b can fit between

Plus.....

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ready to paint and steering

 

why have the 2 rudders that close and parallel? interesting concept.

 

 

At least there is a choice for one or two as required to reduce drag

Shape \ DRAG for taller and thicker single rudder is about the same but now there is lesser loss of steering in hard heel

Plus loss of single you have nothing to steer

Plus o\b can fit between

Plus.....

 

But why parallel and why not on the outer hulls?

 

on Timberwolf In NZ we have gone from single rudder in the middle to one on each outer hull at 5 degrease.

 

I’m not being negative, just very curious.

 

thanks

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ready to paint and steering

 

why have the 2 rudders that close and parallel? interesting concept.

 

allows you to centrally mount the outboard?

Not worth it for that.

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ready to paint and steering

 

why have the 2 rudders that close and parallel? interesting concept.

 

 

At least there is a choice for one or two as required to reduce drag

Shape \ DRAG for taller and thicker single rudder is about the same but now there is lesser loss of steering in hard heel

Plus loss of single you have nothing to steer

Plus o\b can fit between

Plus.....

 

But why parallel and why not on the outer hulls?

 

on Timberwolf In NZ we have gone from single rudder in the middle to one on each outer hull at 5 degrease.

 

I'm not being negative, just very curious.

 

thanks

 

Time will tell this system benefits

 

For folding tri float rudders ?

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See that the displacement is 1.5T - but I am shure the finished boat will be closer to 2.5T - as I have a very light buildt 35 feet trimaran myself that weights in at 1,3T

I can be pretty shure of this. See also you predict 10-12 knot with a 40-50hp engine - even the weight I thing it wil make that with ease.

 

The concept of having such a big engine in the rear will maybe cause some problems . It will be a fast sailer - and the big engine in the back is "against the concept".

 

I think a more innovative engine concept should be designed for such a boat; the engine (heavy) mounted in the centre og the hull - as a power plant for an light

electrical engine at the back - or a full electric motor with the batteris in the center - low down.

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See that the displacement is 1.5T - but I am shure the finished boat will be closer to 2.5T - as I have a very light buildt 35 feet trimaran myself that weights in at 1,3T

I can be pretty shure of this. See also you predict 10-12 knot with a 40-50hp engine - even the weight I thing it wil make that with ease.

 

The concept of having such a big engine in the rear will maybe cause some problems . It will be a fast sailer - and the big engine in the back is "against the concept".

 

I think a more innovative engine concept should be designed for such a boat; the engine (heavy) mounted in the centre og the hull - as a power plant for an light

electrical engine at the back - or a full electric motor with the batteris in the center - low down.

 

 

We going with 20 or 25 hp

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I'm sorry - but the wheel, double rudders (why, oh why?) and the centerline engine in that rendering makes the boat look like a Mac 26.

 

 

20 HP should be enough - I've got a 20 on my Contour 34 - should be about the same displacement - and we hit max efficiency at about 3/4 throttle. It's nice having a little extra to punch in chop.

 

I hope you have good hatch boards - you will get pooped with that low transom on occasion, and you will take significant water into the cockpit. We're planning on rigging a canvas cover for our transom.

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I'm sorry - but the wheel, double rudders (why, oh why?) and the centerline engine in that rendering makes the boat look like a Mac 26.

 

 

20 HP should be enough - I've got a 20 on my Contour 34 - should be about the same displacement - and we hit max efficiency at about 3/4 throttle. It's nice having a little extra to punch in chop.

 

I hope you have good hatch boards - you will get pooped with that low transom on occasion, and you will take significant water into the cockpit. We're planning on rigging a canvas cover for our transom.

 

Station with Wheel is designed to drive on power only

 

Tiller is the way to go and this what we promote

 

We installed 30 hp on this model but 10 15 20 or 25 are up to the owner

 

Double via slider makes sense under sail double via kick up not .

 

Countour will be havier vs TNT with much less beam and sail area . Not even close to TNT

 

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I wonder about how the forces from the front beams and the mast is distributed ?

 

I see from the building pics that its no big bulkhead in that area - and the area is rather big with the two beams assymetrical and the mast behind the beams.

With the daggerboard on the floats it vil also make bigger forcer to the beams.

 

Are the daggerboard assymetrical - which could be an option when there are mounted on the amas?

 

Is this a ocean going design or more a sheltered water design?

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I wonder about how the forces from the front beams and the mast is distributed ?

 

I see from the building pics that its no big bulkhead in that area - and the area is rather big with the two beams assymetrical and the mast behind the beams.

With the daggerboard on the floats it vil also make bigger forcer to the beams.

 

Are the daggerboard assymetrical - which could be an option when there are mounted on the amas?

 

Is this a ocean going design or more a sheltered water design?

 

Forces are huge but controlled by two bulkheads. TNT will have CE ,class B.

There is no hydrofoils yet (50/50) and the main dagarboard has huge reinforcements

Our designers have engineering background an we take great care to calculate and distribute theforces trough out the TNT

post-49251-046988300 1317393764_thumb.jpg

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I am just guessing here but I think the idea is similar to the Mac 26. Two rudders allow for an oversized outboard to be placed between them. The idea with the 26 was to make a boat that could be sailed or motored, and motored at planning speeds. With the 26 the idea was a boat for the everyday man, something that does everything. However whenever you compromise.... But with a tri you aren't going to get in up on a plane under power, or I would hope not, so why the need for the huge outboard? I would think a tri would be faster under sail than power in almost all situations so why not save the drag and the weight associated with this system.

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I am just guessing here but I think the idea is similar to the Mac 26. Two rudders allow for an oversized outboard to be placed between them. The idea with the 26 was to make a boat that could be sailed or motored, and motored at planning speeds. With the 26 the idea was a boat for the everyday man, something that does everything. However whenever you compromise.... But with a tri you aren't going to get in up on a plane under power, or I would hope not, so why the need for the huge outboard? I would think a tri would be faster under sail than power in almost all situations so why not save the drag and the weight associated with this system.

 

 

Why all twin rudders boats seems to be Macgregors and why multihulls idea is compared to mono ?

As a builder of true power cats ( www.motorcat.com ) , we believe that 10 knots under power is needed and safe.

 

Twin rudder under sail give us so many options

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the only reason I can see for the twin rudders is to give room for the outboard. If it was a control issue they wouldn't be parallel and 3 feet apart. They would be set at the best angle to be vertical while healed. And generally on a tri you wouldn't do that anyway. If the design allows for lifting the center hull then the rudders are out on the amas. If the main hull stays wet then one, centered. 10 knts under power seems reasonable, just saying it looks like that is your reason for 2 rudders, a big engine.

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the only reason I can see for the twin rudders is to give room for the outboard. If it was a control issue they wouldn't be parallel and 3 feet apart. They would be set at the best angle to be vertical while healed. And generally on a tri you wouldn't do that anyway. If the design allows for lifting the center hull then the rudders are out on the amas. If the main hull stays wet then one, centered. 10 knts under power seems reasonable, just saying it looks like that is your reason for 2 rudders, a big engine.

 

 

Plus less leeway when under 10 knots under sails

 

More control of needed blade area

 

When heeled better grip

 

Two is better than one if one fails

 

List is long ..,

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it's your boat, build as you want. But looking at the size of the rudders I think you are way overdoing it on surface area.

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it's your boat, build as you want. But looking at the size of the rudders I think you are way overdoing it on surface area.

 

 

Win Win with two rudders

post-49251-042152800 1317796854_thumb.jpg

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Last weekend test failed . Unfortunately in saturday when the weather was ok , the shipyard must to end fitting of the mast, what was a result of missing mast feet during the delivery .We must wait extra few days and couldn`t be ready for Saturday. The Sunday started at the lake , with heavy fog after the night with a minus grad Celsjus and about the noon we must to cancel event finally :o(. See the pictures taken last week in the shipayrd. We have a hope to be on the water within next two weeks , if the weather let . Keep You posted

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very nice

 

i wondered why the pics weren't appearing on your facebook page

 

not much time left in your sailing season

 

hopefully you'll get some valuable sailing data before the ice comes

 

and have it all ready for 2012

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those are monster beams

 

can they be unbolted from the floats, will they fit into a 40' container?

 

those beams seem to be much more angled than in the drawings

 

is this because they are just hanging

 

do they need water under them supporting them to be flat like the drawings?

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those are monster beams

 

can they be unbolted from the floats, will they fit into a 40' container?

 

those beams seem to be much more angled than in the drawings

 

is this because they are just hanging

 

do they need water under them supporting them to be flat like the drawings?

 

If anything like my boat - they need the rig tension to lift them.

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those are monster beams

 

can they be unbolted from the floats, will they fit into a 40' container?

 

those beams seem to be much more angled than in the drawings

 

is this because they are just hanging

 

do they need water under them supporting them to be flat like the drawings?

 

Yes we can fit TNT into container . The 15 m mast is folding into 2 pieces

Beams were not fixed by bolts on the floor at the time of pictures.

 

 

 

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what's what's the limit where you are Joey?

 

looks to have nets aft of the rear beam like the similarly long tailed f32

 

woud be very interesting to see them sailing together someday...

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That's a little tall for trailering in most places ain't it?

 

Joe

 

 

 

I think no . US - max trailering height is 4,30 ( 14 feet ) In Europe max trailering height is 4-4,1 m and depends to country . Height of the TNT itself with beam up is 3,73 , ( 12,2 feet )

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That's a little tall for trailering in most places ain't it?

 

Joe

 

 

 

I think no . US - max trailering height is 4,30 ( 14 feet ) In Europe max trailering height is 4-4,1 m and depends to country . Height of the TNT itself with beam up is 3,73 , ( 12,2 feet )

 

While the max height in the US is 14 feet I can tell you that i have seen many bridges shorter than that. I think that the beams look absolutely huge, but when you put them in comparison to an F/C boat they are about the same.

 

Joe

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That's a little tall for trailering in most places ain't it?

 

Joe

 

 

 

I think no . US - max trailering height is 4,30 ( 14 feet ) In Europe max trailering height is 4-4,1 m and depends to country . Height of the TNT itself with beam up is 3,73 , ( 12,2 feet )

 

While the max height in the US is 14 feet I can tell you that i have seen many bridges shorter than that. I think that the beams look absolutely huge, but when you put them in comparison to an F/C boat they are about the same.

 

Joe

 

I do not talk that are any bridges under the 4,3 m height . I wrote that trailering under the 4,3 m height is not prohibited on the US roads and do not required special permition . As always before trailering TNT will be required to find a road without height limits

post-49251-010243000 1321871280_thumb.jpg

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While the max height in the US is 14 feet I can tell you that i have seen many bridges shorter than that. I think that the beams look absolutely huge, but when you put them in comparison to an F/C boat they are about the same.

 

Joe

 

The original F-27 is close to twelve feet, my F-36 is around 11' 6" and the third generation boats are lower yet.

 

 

 

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My F32 stands at 11'7"

 

I thought that the F36 was demountable, not folding?

 

 

Sorry, I meant my F-31- bad typo.

 

 

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TNT 34 -The New Trimaran – First Trial

 

 

The first sail trial of TNT 34 has happened on November 18 ,2011 on the small lake Bukowka(http://www.windguru.cz/int/index.php?sc=65606) surrounded by hills where wind speed that day was 5-9 knots. There was 5 people on board and not all sails and rigging were in place to attain higher speeds.

 

After launching the yacht by crane (no ramp available), the engine was started to stay against the wind and to hoist the sails .The daggerboard was lowered to 70 % of its length due to unknown and potentially shallow conditions .The following results were obtained :

 

 

  • TWS 7-9 knots, wind angle 70 deg ,boat speed 7,8 knots (TWS –True Wind Speed)
  • TWS 5-6 knots, wind angle 70 deg ,boat speed 6,5 knots

First tacks were quick and TNT easily crossed the wind line . Loss of boat speed was not more than 50 % (20 tacks were made) and yacht did not “hesitate “ or “stopped” crossing smoothly the wind line .

 

After up wind trial TNT started to tack with the wind and following results were obtained:

 

 

  • TWS 5-6 ,wind angle 120 deg ,boat speed 8-9 knots
  • TWS 7-9 ,wind angle 120 deg ,boat speed 9-10 knots

 

Jibing was easy too with only 20 % loss of boat speed .

 

Then series of tacks and jibes were performed on a beam reach. In both cases TNT 34 crossed easily the wind line and tack radius did not exceed 1.5 hull length .Also TNT performed flawlessly twice man overboard manoeuvre (mandatory for some EU skippers during exam ) .

 

 

Report by Piotr Adamowicz ,Yacht Captain

 

Piotr has sailed 58000 NM of which 38000 NM are in racing .14 times Polish Yacht Championships in different categories and yacht classes .Piotr has also participated 9 times in ¼ Ton World Cup (IOR) with being 5th, in 1995 and 6th in 1995.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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TWS 5-6 ,wind angle 120 deg ,boat speed 8-9 knots

 

 

Really? You are claiming boat speed @ 1.5X wind speed, off the wind with 80 degree gybing angles.

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was the motor running ?

 

nice boat ... the last thing we need is overzealous incorrect marketing "facts"

 

thor

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TWS 5-6 ,wind angle 120 deg ,boat speed 8-9 knots

 

 

Really? You are claiming boat speed @ 1.5X wind speed, off the wind with 80 degree gybing angles.

 

If you are sailing at an angle of 120 deg to true wind, thats a broad reach and your gybe angle would be 120 deg

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TWS 5-6 ,wind angle 120 deg ,boat speed 8-9 knots

 

 

Really? You are claiming boat speed @ 1.5X wind speed, off the wind with 80 degree gybing angles.

 

If you are sailing at an angle of 120 deg to true wind, thats a broad reach and your gybe angle would be 120 deg

Wow, that hang-over lasted a while.

 

Pay no attention to my superior math skills... yes they are 60 off DDW and gybing through 120 deg as you said. Ouch.

 

Still doubt they were getting 1.5X (quickly double checking that...)

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