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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Te Kooti

News From the Viaduct

3,728 posts in this topic

 

Actually, I believe the government have already gotten back every cent via work done for ETNZ, LR, OR plus the '45s for the other competitors along with the general boost to the industry.

Unfortunately, our current motley bunch of MPs are too stupid to see that and are likely only to extend the sponsorship deal with ETNZ if they are embarassed into doing so.

And the only way I see that they will be embarassed into doing so is if ETNZ win the cup and are short of funds to defend.

 

If ETNZ do win (and thats a pretty big IF) and GD gets his way, The NZ government will have gotten back every cent they put into this cup. And im guessing the government would contribute to the defense, but if they lose, i suspect another financial contribution to a CHALLENGE would be out of the question.

I'd say they have probably got it back several times over already, just the number of NZ man hours of work it has generated is absolutely staggering...

But you right about the politicians, unfortunately they will happily completely ignore facts if they think they can get political mileage out of something regardless of the impact on anybody else.

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Link to the OR video shown at the fund-raiser. At least someone showed some class at the event.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=579249222095774

 

You're right SWS. It's painful reading the comments from people and chatting to sailors about the AC and this event in particular.

 

Russel just wants what's best for everyone. Grant Dalton is an arsehole.

 

Why won't anyone here see what you've been saying all along SWS? It's like they have everything back-to-front.

 

Maybe Grumpy will also be so gracious to show the video he selected to show to set the tone of his message at the beginning of the event. Seems kind of self serving for a fundraising charity event for disabled sailors, but it does seem fitting nonetheless.

 

If this cup could be won by he who bitched the most their would be no need to splash the boats - he would have won when the "Grumpy Gag Order" was instituted in San Diego in effort to keep the event professional. Nice accolade eh ?

 

The best I can tell this has been the most level playing field of just about any previous AC event - interesting he has been the only one bitching from the start. That speaks for itself, as did his throwing Botin under the bus in the VOR, but maybe you forgot that little gem.

 

If the kiwis have an issue with their sailors racing for other teams, which seems to be the jist of your complaint, and probably also why Grumpy has a bone up his ass, I'm afraid you'll have to seek help elsewhere. Like a lot of things in life, you need to deal with it, but that's your problem :).

 

Come on mate. Step away from your keyboard, put some trousers on over the top of the Special-Edition, Russel Coutts Portrait, Glow in the Dark, US Anthem Playing, Team-OR, Satin Boxer Shorts you're wearing, and go do some sailing somewhere.

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Link to the OR video shown at the fund-raiser. At least someone showed some class at the event.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=579249222095774

 

You're right SWS. It's painful reading the comments from people and chatting to sailors about the AC and this event in particular.

 

Russel just wants what's best for everyone. Grant Dalton is an arsehole.

 

Why won't anyone here see what you've been saying all along SWS? It's like they have everything back-to-front.

 

Maybe Grumpy will also be so gracious to show the video he selected to show to set the tone of his message at the beginning of the event. Seems kind of self serving for a fundraising charity event for disabled sailors, but it does seem fitting nonetheless.

 

If this cup could be won by he who bitched the most their would be no need to splash the boats - he would have won when the "Grumpy Gag Order" was instituted in San Diego in effort to keep the event professional. Nice accolade eh ?

 

The best I can tell this has been the most level playing field of just about any previous AC event - interesting he has been the only one bitching from the start. That speaks for itself, as did his throwing Botin under the bus in the VOR, but maybe you forgot that little gem.

 

If the kiwis have an issue with their sailors racing for other teams, which seems to be the jist of your complaint, and probably also why Grumpy has a bone up his ass, I'm afraid you'll have to seek help elsewhere. Like a lot of things in life, you need to deal with it, but that's your problem :).

 

Come on mate. Step away from your keyboard, put some trousers on over the top of the Special-Edition, Russel Coutts Portrait, Glow in the Dark, US Anthem Playing, Team-OR, Satin Boxer Shorts you're wearing, and go do some sailing somewhere.

 

Yo Homie. Your disappointment in your fellow countrymen bleeds hemorrhages through your writing. Maybe it's you that needs to go for a sail if you're still licking your wounds after this long. Time to shed a bit of the Samsonite and lighten the load for yourself ?

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Dalton IS a legend. Together with Dean Barker, they kept the whole show together against all the odds. NZ doesn't have too many spare Billionaires interested in sailing sadly, so it was all uphill for Dalts. Like Peter Blake before him, he has managed to get some big players on board and provide them with some excellent world wide exposure..

 

Russell lost me when about 6 months after giving a speach about "creating a dynasty of Americas Cup sailing in NZ" he buggered off to Ernisto for the cash, dragging a shite lod of talent with him.. Great sailor but dubious ethics...

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So how much was raised for Rick and Barnsy? Would have thought they had enough personal cash to fund their sailing or are the funds going to the MS Foundation?

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Dalton IS a legend. Together with Dean Barker, they kept the whole show together against all the odds. NZ doesn't have too many spare Billionaires interested in sailing sadly, so it was all uphill for Dalts. Like Peter Blake before him, he has managed to get some big players on board and provide them with some excellent world wide exposure.. AGREE

 

Russell lost me when about 6 months after giving a speach about "creating a dynasty of Americas Cup sailing in NZ" he buggered off to Ernisto for the cash, dragging a shite lod of talent with him.. Great sailor but dubious ethics... GET OVER IT

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^ I have to admit being pretty fucked off with Coutts when he buggered off to uncle Ernie.

But to be honest, there is always two sides to every tale and by all accounts he felt that promises made were not kept and was therefore compelled to search elsewhere.

 

I didn't like it, but it doesn't mean he was solely to blame for what happened.

So, to cut a long story short........yeah, get over it.

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But to be honest, there is always two sides to every tale and by all accounts [RC] felt that promises made were not kept and was therefore compelled to search elsewhere.

 

I didn't like it, but it doesn't mean he was solely to blame for what happened.

So, to cut a long story short........yeah, get over it.

 

FWIW, I think history has shown that RC deserved the upstairs office he was denied and the guys who denied him did not. IMO, sad and ugly all around. Water under the bridge an all.

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^ Deserved or not, I think the key thing here it that it would seem that he was PROMISED it.

If you don't want to keep the promise, don't bloody well make it.

 

I think if Russ was still with TNZ, we might still have the cup.

That said, I actually think that GD is a far better operator than Russ in terms of leadership and fund raising.

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^ Agreed about RC. Not sure about GD. Suspect he's great. I wasn't impressed by his public utterances about his crew and designer in the last VOR.

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^ I did say leadership and fundraising.

Nobody is perfect and GD is no different. I also was pretty unimpressed with him hanging the VOR designer out to dry like that.

I have also wished all along that he would keep some of the barbs to OR to himself (even though I often agree with what is being said)

 

With regards to leadership and fundraising, I don't think anyone else could have picked ETNZ up off the canvas to become the challenger in the '07 cup like he did.

And once they got there, they certainly gave Alinghi a hell of a fright.

 

And in this campaign, it is to his (and the teams) credit that they have kept the lights on through the dark period and come out with a team and boat that is looking increasingly likely to be the challenger again. Whilst its too early to predict who would win out of OR and ETNZ, it is also to their credit that they can't be discounted at this stage.

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But to be honest, there is always two sides to every tale and by all accounts [RC] felt that promises made were not kept and was therefore compelled to search elsewhere.

 

I didn't like it, but it doesn't mean he was solely to blame for what happened.

So, to cut a long story short........yeah, get over it.

 

FWIW, I think history has shown that RC deserved the upstairs office he was denied and the guys who denied him did not. IMO, sad and ugly all around. Water under the bridge an all.

 

 

 

But to be honest, there is always two sides to every tale and by all accounts [RC] felt that promises made were not kept and was therefore compelled to search elsewhere.

 

I didn't like it, but it doesn't mean he was solely to blame for what happened.

So, to cut a long story short........yeah, get over it.

 

FWIW, I think history has shown that RC deserved the upstairs office he was denied and the guys who denied him did not. IMO, sad and ugly all around. Water under the bridge an all.

Coutts certainly earned the right to the big chair then, but he baulked at the responsibilities which came with it when he realised he was going to have to do precisely what Dalton has been so good at: fund-raising. Hindsight is a curse, but it has shown that Coutts' decision to move was right for all parties but for different reasons. I am not convinced that TNZ would have lasted this long had Coutts stayed as I don't believe he is CEO material: by his own admission, he finds it difficult to raise funds and admits a reluctant admiration for Dalton's ability to do so.

 

Things have worked out alright for all concerned...

 

 

...now back to the fybing and fibbing.

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Dalton IS a legend. Together with Dean Barker, they kept the whole show together against all the odds. NZ doesn't have too many spare Billionaires interested in sailing sadly, so it was all uphill for Dalts. Like Peter Blake before him, he has managed to get some big players on board and provide them with some excellent world wide exposure.. AGREE

 

Russell lost me when about 6 months after giving a speach about "creating a dynasty of Americas Cup sailing in NZ" he buggered off to Ernisto for the cash, dragging a shite lod of talent with him.. Great sailor but dubious ethics... GET OVER IT

 

Nothing to get over. I just have a long memory..

 

I would be very interested to know exactly what went on behind the scenes just before Coutts and Butterworth walked. I have never heard the full story, only a bit of second hand stuff. What he did still wasn't right, and it was more than just going for the best deal... I cannot agree that it was just professional sailing. Coutts knows the impact that the cup had on Auckland and NZ, that was correctly predicted by Peter Blake. When he walked, a lot of Blakes dream died, and I found that really sad.

 

Couts was also a legend to the NZ public at that stage, with his handing the helm to Dean Barker for the last race and all his talk of dynasties. I've raced Lasers against him a few times and found him to be very gracious on the water, but his actions back then left a sour taste.. I wonder if he regrets the way things turned out, despite being one of the richer sportsmen in NZ?

 

Dalts on the other hand has always been brash and loud and outspoken. I think he might be quite hard to work with, (I don't know) but I truly admire his results and perserverance. Without Dalts, there would be no ETNZ. Big ups to him.

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Dalton IS a legend. Together with Dean Barker, they kept the whole show together against all the odds. NZ doesn't have too many spare Billionaires interested in sailing sadly, so it was all uphill for Dalts. Like Peter Blake before him, he has managed to get some big players on board and provide them with some excellent world wide exposure.. AGREE

 

Russell lost me when about 6 months after giving a speach about "creating a dynasty of Americas Cup sailing in NZ" he buggered off to Ernisto for the cash, dragging a shite lod of talent with him.. Great sailor but dubious ethics... GET OVER IT

 

when will the usa get over jenkins?

 

he did far less harm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Robert_Jenkins

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Yo Homie. Your disappointment in your fellow countrymen bleeds hemorrhages through your writing. Maybe it's you that needs to go for a sail if you're still licking your wounds after this long. Time to shed a bit of the Samsonite and lighten the load for yourself ?

 

Your comebacks are weak. You are a very small man in the world of internet-post-comebacks, what I call a comeback pygmy.

 

I don't mind if you practice on me. You need to invoke intelligence and use witticisms to be a truly great troll, rather than a garden-variety one.

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Yo Homie. Your disappointment in your fellow countrymen bleeds hemorrhages through your writing. Maybe it's you that needs to go for a sail if you're still licking your wounds after this long. Time to shed a bit of the Samsonite and lighten the load for yourself ?

 

Your comebacks are weak. You are a very small man in the world of internet-post-comebacks, what I call a comeback pygmy.

 

I don't mind if you practice on me. You need to invoke intelligence and use witticisms to be a truly great troll, rather than a garden-variety one.

Whatever you say :)

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Nothing to get over. I just have a long memory..

 

I would be very interested to know exactly what went on behind the scenes just before Coutts and Butterworth walked. I have never heard the full story, only a bit of second hand stuff. What he did still wasn't right, and it was more than just going for the best deal... I cannot agree that it was just professional sailing. Coutts knows the impact that the cup had on Auckland and NZ, that was correctly predicted by Peter Blake. When he walked, a lot of Blakes dream died, and I found that really sad.

 

Couts was also a legend to the NZ public at that stage, with his handing the helm to Dean Barker for the last race and all his talk of dynasties. I've raced Lasers against him a few times and found him to be very gracious on the water, but his actions back then left a sour taste.. I wonder if he regrets the way things turned out, despite being one of the richer sportsmen in NZ?

 

Dalts on the other hand has always been brash and loud and outspoken. I think he might be quite hard to work with, (I don't know) but I truly admire his results and perserverance. Without Dalts, there would be no ETNZ. Big ups to him.

 

Would it have hurt as much if Alinghi with Coutts and co hadn't won in 2003?

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Nothing to get over. I just have a long memory..

 

I would be very interested to know exactly what went on behind the scenes just before Coutts and Butterworth walked. I have never heard the full story, only a bit of second hand stuff. What he did still wasn't right, and it was more than just going for the best deal... I cannot agree that it was just professional sailing. Coutts knows the impact that the cup had on Auckland and NZ, that was correctly predicted by Peter Blake. When he walked, a lot of Blakes dream died, and I found that really sad.

 

Couts was also a legend to the NZ public at that stage, with his handing the helm to Dean Barker for the last race and all his talk of dynasties. I've raced Lasers against him a few times and found him to be very gracious on the water, but his actions back then left a sour taste.. I wonder if he regrets the way things turned out, despite being one of the richer sportsmen in NZ?

 

Dalts on the other hand has always been brash and loud and outspoken. I think he might be quite hard to work with, (I don't know) but I truly admire his results and perserverance. Without Dalts, there would be no ETNZ. Big ups to him.

 

Would it have hurt as much if Alinghi with Coutts and co hadn't won in 2003?

 

Probably not!! :)

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Nothing to get over. I just have a long memory..

 

I would be very interested to know exactly what went on behind the scenes just before Coutts and Butterworth walked. I have never heard the full story, only a bit of second hand stuff. What he did still wasn't right, and it was more than just going for the best deal... I cannot agree that it was just professional sailing. Coutts knows the impact that the cup had on Auckland and NZ, that was correctly predicted by Peter Blake. When he walked, a lot of Blakes dream died, and I found that really sad.

 

Couts was also a legend to the NZ public at that stage, with his handing the helm to Dean Barker for the last race and all his talk of dynasties. I've raced Lasers against him a few times and found him to be very gracious on the water, but his actions back then left a sour taste.. I wonder if he regrets the way things turned out, despite being one of the richer sportsmen in NZ?

 

Dalts on the other hand has always been brash and loud and outspoken. I think he might be quite hard to work with, (I don't know) but I truly admire his results and perserverance. Without Dalts, there would be no ETNZ. Big ups to him.

 

Would it have hurt as much if Alinghi with Coutts and co hadn't won in 2003?

 

Probably not!! :)

 

much less

 

if your lover leaves you for a loser

 

it hurts

 

but not half as much as if they leave you for someone who may be better...

 

existential crisis

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Top sailors don't necessarily make good administrators. Examples abound, but a good recent example was RC's inane comments about his record being better than GD's. He isn't sailing on the boats, so what does it matter how many races he's won in the past? He's retired from the AC as a competitor, so he won't be winning any more.

 

On the other side, why is GD complaining about not enough competitors. Does he want more competition? I thought he wanted ETNZ to win the AC. How would having 10 challengers help with that?

 

The problem is that the fiery competive streak they need to succeed on the race course isn't appropriate for a lot of their duties as CEOs. Slagging each other off during a charity function wasn't a good look for either of their organisations.

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congrats to NZ and its people for supporting the treaties -

 

printLogo.png
Historic Treaty settlement to be signed this afternoon
By Claire Trevett @CTrevettNZH
1:24 PM Tuesday Jun 4, 2013
SCCZEN_A_250706NZHAGFORD42_220x147.jpg
Lakebeds returned to Te Arawa. Photo / Alan Gibson

More than 1000 Tuhoe people are expected at Parliament this afternoon to witness the historic signing of the iwi's deed of settlement with the Crown.

Tuhoe has had one of the most strained relationships with the Crown throughout history, and the iwi's negotiator Tamati Kruger said this morning that the $170 million settlement would help redress that.

"We've been trying to negotiate these things for over 150 years. There have been systematic failures over that time.

"I think we all sensed within Te Urewera that this was going to be the right time. We had the right people around, there was a feeling of readiness to deal with a disappointing history and stop the habit of that history failing New Zealand as well as Tuhoe.

"It was a combination of things and I'm just really grateful that I'm going to witness a very historical moment this afternoon, which puts to end a lot of anger and grief between Tuhoe and the Crown,'' Mr Kruger said.

Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations, Chris Finlayson, said all Treaty settlements were unique and had special features. He said Tuhoe's recognised the historical treatment by the Crown, including breaches of promises.

"I think it's been very important to get to know the facts. If you know the facts then you can see why we're doing what we're doing today. If there are any folk out there who doubt the validity of why we're doing what we're doing, I suggest they read the history.''

In Tuhoe's case, the most significant features include creating a new legal entity so Te Urewera National Park is owned neither by the Crown nor Tuhoe, but gives Tuhoe an increasing management role over time.

The other is the `mana motuhake' clause, giving Tuhoe a greater role in delivering social services to its own people.

About 90 per cent of Ngai Tuhoe ratified the deed of settlement, which Mr Kruger said he was pleased with.

"We've tried our best, both the Crown and Tuhoe, to get a proper and honourable deed of settlement, We do believe we've done the best we can.''

Although about seven hapu do not support it, he said its provisions were for the benefit of all Tuhoe people, not just those who ratified it.

The settlement signing comes just a week after the release of an Independent Police Conduct Authority report into the police raids on Ruatoki in 2008, but the negotiators hoped it would not overshadow the signing. Mr Finlayson said that was a matter for another day.

The signing ceremony will be live-streamed on www.ngaituhoe.iwi.nz.

By Claire Trevett @CTrevettNZH

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More than 1000 Tuhoe people are expected at Parliament this afternoon to witness the historic signing of the iwi's deed of settlement with the Crown.

 

Yes, this is a significant treaty development.

 

Tuhoe live in one of the more remote and isolated parts of Aotearoa but have a history of producing outstanding leaders.

 

At the foot of their hills - on the Bay of Plenty side - is Ngati Awa and the place where the Matatatua canoe landed.

 

In Whakatane there is Awanuiarangi - a wananga (or Maori university). These wananga are the salient story of 21st century tertiary education in New Zealand.

 

There are three wananga in New Zealand - with Awanuiarangi the leader. During the last year they opened beautiful new buildings - built and paid for by the local iwi (tribe).

 

I know a fair bit about this place and have enjoyed several evenings with wananga leaders scoffing snapper and discussing the AC on the balcony at the Bay of Plenty Big Game Fishing Club in Whakatane.

 

As I have said before, NZ'ers understand the meaning of the long ocean voyage and seakeeping characteristics of big double-hulled waka. They also know Grant has reached out to Ngati Whatua in Auckland.

 

Tama Iti is perhaps the best known Tuhoe person in Aotearoa. Although not welcome in police stations, he has good relationships with Awanuiarangi and, like Tom Ehman, knows how to work a group.

post-29902-0-50892700-1370541021_thumb.jpg

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The Joy of Eric & dumper`s posts is the essence in the difference between the Kiwi & Yankee!

 

The many Americans have posted (tirelessly) the lasted few years about the AC in cats "these things bear no resemblance to what the average sailor sees or sails on yada yada yade ..etc.

 

The Kiwi, was sailing light yachts (Patiki) that actually planned on Auckland harbour and the commercial Mullet Boats were also doing stuff maybe 30 years plus, while Uffa Fox was pondering and musing designs to "break free" of the dreaded length/waterline displacement conundrum :)

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1014270_325206157611247_1240863659_n.jpgTaken from Dave Ridley's Facebook.

 

Looks like a half-scale AC65 for AC35

 

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