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Official AC dates announced

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OFFICIAL DATES OF 34TH AMERICA’S CUP RELEASED

 

San Francisco, Calif., Tuesday, January 25, 2011

 

Louis Vuitton Cup Starts In July, America’s Cup Match (Finals) In September of 2013

 

WHAT:

The 2013 race dates for the Louis Vuitton Cup and America’s Cup Match (Finals) were confirmed today by Regatta Director Iain Murray.

 

Since 1983, the Louis Vuitton Cup – the America’s Cup Challenger Series – has been held when more than one Challenger is vying for the right to race the Defender for the America’s Cup (as is the case for the 34th America’s Cup). The role of the Louis Vuitton Cup is twofold – not only to select the best Challenger, but also to help prepare that the team to race successfully against the Defender in the America’s Cup Match (Finals).

 

The winner of the Louis Vuitton Cup will race the Golden Gate Yacht Club’s (GGYC) defending team in the finals, a first-to-win-five (best of nine) race series known as the America’s Cup Match (Finals).

 

WHEN:

Louis Vuitton Cup: 13 July – 1 September 2013*

America’s Cup Match (Finals): 7-22 September 2013**

 

WHO:

Under the Protocol Governing the America’s Cup, GGYC as the Defending Club has the responsibility to select the dates.

 

The official notice of these dates to the currently entered six teams, and other prospective teams, from Regatta Director Iain Murray is now available at www.americascup.com under the Gallery section.

 

WHERE:

San Francisco Bay

 

*subject to the final number of Challengers and the precise format of the racing TBD by the Challengers and Regatta Director.

**subject to the whether the America’s Cup Match (Finals) is won in five races, or goes the full nine races.

 

About the America’s Cup

Nearly 160 years old, the America’s Cup is the oldest trophy in international sport. Initially a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs, the America’s Cup has evolved into one of the world's leading sporting competitions – featuring the best sailors on the world’s fastest boats – the wing-sailed AC45 and AC72 catamarans. The 34th America's Cup Finals will be held in San Francisco in the fall of 2013, with the new America's Cup World Series beginning in 2011. For more information, visit www.americascup.com

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Now wait a min these are actual FACTS. What are they doing in this forum ? :) To paraphrase a well known movie over here , Blazing Saddles ,

" Facts ?? We dont need no stinking FACTS :) ". Thanks for sharing !

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I see a vast conspiracy

 

I thought the challenger commission was going to decide their CSS dates and format wink.gif

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These guys crack me up. Haven't read it before, but what does this mean? Initially? Are there no more teams representing yacht clubs, and one-on-one racing? What is the AC supposed to be now? A fleet race between same-nation teams?

 

The whole semantics of this sentence is screwed and turns out to ridicule the meaning. Really funny.

 

(...)

About the America’s Cup

Nearly 160 years old, the America’s Cup is the oldest trophy in international sport. Initially a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs, the America’s Cup has evolved into one of the world's leading sporting competitions – featuring the best sailors on the world’s fastest boats – the wing-sailed AC45 and AC72 catamarans. (...)

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These guys crack me up. Haven't read it before, but what does this mean? Initially? Are there no more teams representing yacht clubs, and one-on-one racing? What is the AC supposed to be now? A fleet race between same-nation teams?

 

The whole semantics of this sentence is screwed and turns out to ridicule the meaning. Really funny.

 

(...)

About the America's Cup

Nearly 160 years old, the America's Cup is the oldest trophy in international sport. Initially a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs, the America's Cup has evolved into one of the world's leading sporting competitions – featuring the best sailors on the world's fastest boats – the wing-sailed AC45 and AC72 catamarans. (...)

 

Turning in their graves they must be...

 

I need to read this crap more carefully, nice find Ren, can't wait to read SR and SWS spin on it.

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These guys crack me up. Haven't read it before, but what does this mean? Initially? Are there no more teams representing yacht clubs, and one-on-one racing? What is the AC supposed to be now? A fleet race between same-nation teams?

 

The whole semantics of this sentence is screwed and turns out to ridicule the meaning. Really funny.

 

(...)

About the America's Cup

Nearly 160 years old, the America's Cup is the oldest trophy in international sport. Initially a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs, the America's Cup has evolved into one of the world's leading sporting competitions – featuring the best sailors on the world's fastest boats – the wing-sailed AC45 and AC72 catamarans. (...)

 

Yes, what do they assume by that sentence? :unsure:

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I think it is just a blooper. But good to know that this happens to professionals too.

 

Hopefully, we'll see.

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These guys crack me up. Haven't read it before, but what does this mean? Initially? Are there no more teams representing yacht clubs, and one-on-one racing? What is the AC supposed to be now? A fleet race between same-nation teams?

 

The whole semantics of this sentence is screwed and turns out to ridicule the meaning. Really funny.

 

(...)

About the America's Cup

Nearly 160 years old, the America's Cup is the oldest trophy in international sport. Initially a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs, the America's Cup has evolved into one of the world's leading sporting competitions – featuring the best sailors on the world's fastest boats – the wing-sailed AC45 and AC72 catamarans. (...)

 

Turning in their graves they must be...

 

I need to read this crap more carefully, nice find Ren, can't wait to read SR and SWS spin on it.

 

Yep, technically if you intend to refer to just the Cup Match itself then it remains to us quite obviously "a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs." But they are clearly referring to all the other attendant competition in the lead-up, something that maybe started ('has evolved') since the multi-chall era began in 1970, with the exception of '88 and '10. These press releases get treated like news but they clearly have PR purposes too.

 

There is another typo (on a phone, hard to go back) where they said something like " to the whether the" something else.. Poor form if that typo got widespread too - did it? Not for the first time either (a typo) but then it's also no big criminal intent - just people trying to do right but sometimes oops'ing. At least they are trying to keep us abreast of the situation..

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I think it is just a blooper. But good to know that this happens to professionals too.

 

Hopefully, we'll see.

 

It will not prevent Spinbot and UberTroll to try to spin it :)

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Yep, technically.....

 

Bloody amazing...

 

Technically...laugh.gif

 

It should be easier than that.

Whatever other BS the operative words are initially shortly followed by evolved. Things ain't what they used to be as the song went.

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But they are clearly referring to all the other attendant competition in the lead-up, something that maybe started ('has evolved') since the multi-chall era began in 1970, with the exception of '88 and '10. These press releases get treated like news but they clearly have PR purposes too.

At the risk of extreme verbal abuse, I have to disagree with your comment. They are clearly not talking about the multi-challenger era because what they say it has evolved into is

one of the world's leading sporting competitions featuring the best sailors on the world's fastest boats – the wing-sailed AC45 and AC72 catamarans

 

The real travisty in this the way they keep placing the word "Finals" after America's Cup Match. That implies there are other events which are part of the America's Cup which, of course, is BS. This is what happens when you hijack the AC and use the term America's Cup World Champion, or any other such rubbish. It is not the America's Cup Final. It is the America's Cup. Everything else is incidental.

 

It seems to me that this is simply the thin end of the wedge. Assuming Oracle Racing wins next time, what happens? Where does this "evolution" go. We already know that they want to minimise match racing as they say it isn't TV friendly. The America's Cup World Champion will be decided by fleet racing. Is the next step going to be fleet racing for the whole lot, because the TV companies say that it is too confusing to keep swapping format? Or will we see the WS get all the coverage and the Cup matches themselves become an untelevised side show?

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The real travisty in this the way they keep placing the word "Finals" after America's Cup Match. That implies there are other events which are part of the America's Cup which, of course, is BS. This is what happens when you hijack the AC and use the term America's Cup World Champion, or any other such rubbish. It is not the America's Cup Final. It is the America's Cup. Everything else is incidental.

 

It seems to me that this is simply the thin end of the wedge. Assuming Oracle Racing wins next time, what happens? Where does this "evolution" go. We already know that they want to minimise match racing as they say it isn't TV friendly. The America's Cup World Champion will be decided by fleet racing. Is the next step going to be fleet racing for the whole lot, because the TV companies say that it is too confusing to keep swapping format? Or will we see the WS get all the coverage and the Cup matches themselves become an untelevised side show?

 

 

I see a vast conspiracy

 

That's so perceptive. How could he know what was coming??cool.gif

 

 

Simon how is it that you are here seemingly 24hours a day attacking anything and everything AC, trolling on every thread, and yet you accuse others of being paid or directed? I smell a rat!mad.gif

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These guys crack me up. Haven't read it before, but what does this mean? Initially? Are there no more teams representing yacht clubs, and one-on-one racing? What is the AC supposed to be now? A fleet race between same-nation teams?

 

The whole semantics of this sentence is screwed and turns out to ridicule the meaning. Really funny.

 

(...)

About the America's Cup

Nearly 160 years old, the America's Cup is the oldest trophy in international sport. Initially a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs, the America's Cup has evolved into one of the world's leading sporting competitions – featuring the best sailors on the world's fastest boats – the wing-sailed AC45 and AC72 catamarans. (...)

 

Turning in their graves they must be...

 

I need to read this crap more carefully, nice find Ren, can't wait to read SR and SWS spin on it.

Here's my spin - go talk to Ian, he (or someone else) wrote it :)

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AC in Mid-September.

 

Lets see...................

 

the NFL and NCAA football seasons are in full gear.

Baseball is entering the pennant races

Basketball and Hockey season's are about to start.

NASCAR well into "the Chase"

 

 

Yea there will be AC highlights on Sports center!!

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AC in Mid-September.

 

Lets see...................

 

the NFL and NCAA football seasons are in full gear.

Baseball is entering the pennant races

Basketball and Hockey season's are about to start.

NASCAR well into "the Chase"

 

 

Yea there will be AC highlights on Sports center!!

 

 

'AC' I know, and hockey is obvious.................

 

COSP--oct28-field-hockey.jpg

 

.....but what the hell do all those other letters stand for?

 

 

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The real travisty in this the way they keep placing the word "Finals" after America's Cup Match. That implies there are other events which are part of the America's Cup which, of course, is BS. This is what happens when you hijack the AC and use the term America's Cup World Champion, or any other such rubbish. It is not the America's Cup Final. It is the America's Cup. Everything else is incidental.

 

It seems to me that this is simply the thin end of the wedge. Assuming Oracle Racing wins next time, what happens? Where does this "evolution" go. We already know that they want to minimise match racing as they say it isn't TV friendly. The America's Cup World Champion will be decided by fleet racing. Is the next step going to be fleet racing for the whole lot, because the TV companies say that it is too confusing to keep swapping format? Or will we see the WS get all the coverage and the Cup matches themselves become an untelevised side show?

That's so perceptive. How could he know what was coming??cool.gif

Simon how is it that you are here seemingly 24hours a day attacking anything and everything AC, trolling on every thread, and yet you accuse others of being paid or directed? I smell a rat!mad.gif

 

FFS, why don't YOU address the obvious points which Simon has made - or is English too complicated for you to comprehend? Let me give you a hint: the operative words are in bold -

1: "Initially a one-on-one competition between teams representing foreign yacht clubs...". This implies it is no longer a 1-on-1 competition: it has no other meaning whatsoever, within the context of the sentence.

2: "America's Cup Final" There is no such event: there is THE America's Cup matches. The implication here is that the ACWS in 45ers has been evolved into a pre-qualification "world series" for the AC. Don't give me your selective yankee bullshit about the LV being part of the AC: it never was. The LV was - surprise! surprise! - the CHALLENGER's Series to find THE Challenger to go 1-on-1 against the Defender, in THE America's Cup match comprising several races.

This information confirms just how much RC and Cayard have hijacked the AC for their own purposes.

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The use of Final bothers me some too, but I suppose we may as well get used to their 'new' terminology. Me, I would prefer "the Match" or "the Cup Match" or the race for "The Cup" as the language used. But again, it is not that much different form the America's Cup 32 Act XIII or whatever they branded that one as, except for yes, extending the idea some. And by the way, their were 13 acts, right? And 13 WS's coming too? Never did like 'Acts' - that one is far more ridiculous. Also, we need to remember they are trying to appeal to a far wider audience than just us, and all these 'new' people they hope to attract in will have no idea WTH the language means if they go all strict-traditional on it.

 

Fleet racing: Yes, there will be a lot more of it than in the Acts, probably. It's a lot more fun to watch, so that is what they'll do. Will it be part of the scoring during the LVC (a name I am glad to see still being used prominently)? We don't know yet. But we DO KNOW that the Cup Match will be head to head, a 'Match.' The Deed ~requires it~. And the tension that goes along with winnowing the challengers (and maybe defender 'candidates') down to the strongest survivor will still be far more compelling than whatever happens in the WS. I can't see TV or any other pressure wanting to change that, it really is a survival of the fittest, Survivor storyline. Perfect for everyone, not just us hard-cores.

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Cannot resist: please explain the difference between match racing and fleet racing with two boats .. B)

 

(no need to reply)

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Cannot resist: please explain the difference between match racing and fleet racing with two boats .. B)

 

(no need to reply)

And of course even in fleet racing, you will often target a particular boat. Happened in quite vivid fashion last week when ML's Bruni held up, allowing OR to somehow pass Aqua, putting the final race at 1 ML, 2 OR, 3 Aqua, and thus ensuring the series win for ML.

 

Anyway, trivia-time: Remember the document we saw in late December, with the 1913 corrected via TE's initials to be 2013? That document, here, relates to the above announcement. And I believe this is how it does that:

 

GGYC was required to announce the specific dates by the end of the year. That doc was dated Dec 31, I believe it was posted that day too. You'll notice the exact same dates in that December doc.

 

IIRC then what happened is this: GGYC and CNdR had MC'd that the year would be 2013. But under the MC'd Protocol, GGYC were given the right to choose the precise dates in that year. And then the ACEA today, presumably after studying it for whatever their concerns are, 'blessed them' and announced them formally today. And so that is why they are now firmed up and fully official, confirmed, vetted, etc.

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Cannot resist: please explain the difference between match racing and fleet racing with two boats .. B)

 

(no need to reply)

And of course even in fleet racing, you will often target a particular boat. Happened in quite vivid fashion last week when ML's Bruni held up, allowing OR to somehow pass Aqua, putting the final race at 1 ML, 2 OR, 3 Aqua, and thus ensuring the series win for ML.

 

Anyway, trivia-time: Remember the document we saw in late December, with the 1913 corrected via TE's initials to be 2013? That document, here, relates to the above announcement. And I believe this is how it does that:

 

GGYC was required to announce the specific dates by the end of the year. That doc was dated Dec 31, I believe it was posted that day too. You'll notice the exact same dates in that December doc.

 

IIRC then what happened is this: GGYC and CNdR had MC'd that the year would be 2013. But under the MC'd Protocol, GGYC were given the right to choose the precise dates in that year. And then the ACEA today, presumably after studying it for whatever their concerns are, 'blessed them' and announced them formally today. And so that is why they are now firmed up and fully official, confirmed, vetted, etc.

 

Who could have thought that CNR could decide of something. waf waf... :lol:

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IIRC then what happened is this: GGYC and CNdR had MC'd that the year would be 2013. But under the MC'd Protocol, GGYC were given the right to choose the precise dates in that year. And then the ACEA today, presumably after studying it for whatever their concerns are, 'blessed them' and announced them formally today. And so that is why they are now firmed up and fully official, confirmed, vetted, etc.

 

Who could have thought that CNR could decide of something. waf waf... :lol:

 

To take you seriously for a split second: On this point I am almost certain you will find that SNG was given this exact same provision, by GGYC, for AC32.

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IIRC then what happened is this: GGYC and CNdR had MC'd that the year would be 2013. But under the MC'd Protocol, GGYC were given the right to choose the precise dates in that year. And then the ACEA today, presumably after studying it for whatever their concerns are, 'blessed them' and announced them formally today. And so that is why they are now firmed up and fully official, confirmed, vetted, etc.

 

Who could have thought that CNR could decide of something. waf waf... :lol:

 

To take you seriously for a split second: On this point I am almost certain you will find that SNG was given this exact same provision, by GGYC, for AC32.

 

I don't say the contrary but for the supposed white knight of the AC the hypocrisy goes on...

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I see a vast conspiracy

I thought the challenger commission was going to decide their CSS dates and format ;)

+1 Very Good.;)

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For all the stick I get, people seem to miss the argument in their desire to attack. At least Stingray understood the point I was making.

 

Most of what concerns me isn't the exact formats as such. Maybe I am concerned about the enphasis on fleet racing in teh WS, but even that I can live with if handled correctly. I have no issue with multis as such and think they will give us great fleet racing. I do have concerns about them for match racing, but it's an exciting experiment.

 

The issues I have is around language and where that leads us. I refuse to accept that this press release is sloppy work because the people working on this edition of the Cup are top rate. I think the words are very deliberate. I am sure they were vetted by many. The message is simple and is for marketing purposes. This edition of the AC cycle is different.

 

The problem is in the language and as this is all about attracting new viewers/followers to the sport and to the AC, you need to put yourself in the position of those people. They do not know of the history and traditions of the Cup, the things that have made the Cup great. And let's not forget that AC32 was pretty bloody good! What this announcement says is that what we all know as the America's Cup is now just part of the bigger picture. It is only "the final". I find that a real problem because if this continues evolving, where is it going?

 

It is all well and good making changes to attract a wider audienec. That helps get sponsors which make this event happen. We have to be realistic about it. Those who wish the AC was a battle of super rich, taking each other on in DOG style matches simply aren't living in the real world. In that situation, the AC becomes a side show because challenges will be infrequent. For instance, I do not think anybody would even consider a DOG challenge in the current global economic climate and withe the huge advantage and resources that Oracle Racing has.

 

However, in bringing it to the wider audienec, certain fundementals need to remain. There has been much debate in soccer about the offside rule. It is believed that this one rule causes more confusion and puts off people morethan anything else. Yet it is fundemental to the sport. I cannot see it being removed from the rule book. In the same way, the America's Cup should have some things that are sacred and not touched. My concern is that is not happening. And the issue isn't just this cycle. It is where this could lead.

 

The language of this announcement is deeply troubling and anybody who loves the AC should be concerned. To share that concern does not mean you don't like multis or the format of events. That is a completely different issue.

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I see a vast conspiracy

I thought the challenger commission was going to decide their CSS dates and format ;)

+1 Very Good.;)

Here's what the Protocol says

--

 

25.3 On or before 1 July 2011 the format of the ACCS shall be agreed by a majority of the

Challengers and the Regatta Director.

25.4 The ACCS shall end not less than five days nor more than ten days before the

scheduled first race of the Match, unless otherwise agreed by GGYC.

 

--

 

There could be an issue in "shall be agreed by a majority of the Challengers and the Regatta Director" because it suggests that if the RD does does agree with the majority of the Challengers, or visa versa - same thing, then there's an implied deadlock that requires some kind of negotiation. And if the RD is looking out for commercial interests, while the majority of Challs are looking out for something else, then perhaps that will get exciting to watch. But my guess is they will come to agreement pretty easily since the formats are well understood and the best ones ought to be obvious to all.

 

In whatever transpires, the Challs do have hold veto power and the Defender has no vote whatsoever. Not seeing too much an issue here, it certainly beats any option having the Defender be included in any of it.

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However, in bringing it to the wider audience, certain fundementals need to remain. .. soccer offsides .. In the same way, the America's Cup should have some things that are sacred and not touched. My concern is that is not happening. And the issue isn't just this cycle. It is where this could lead.

Such as what things?

 

MC is pretty broad and so long as the Match comes down to a good Challenger up against a good Defender for the Cup, then the lead-up is all just a sideshow that hopefully helps create that ultimate Match. That is the sacred part to me, and I actually think in modern times the commercialism helps build to that.

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America’s Cup Match (Finals): 7-22 September 2013**
Right during the normal dates for Big Boat Series.

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The problem is in the language and as this is all about attracting new viewers/followers to the sport and to the AC, you need to put yourself in the position of those people. They do not know of the history and traditions of the Cup, the things that have made the Cup great.

 

No you don't know the audience. The audience is pretty much as Coutts laid out. Sailing will always have a small demographic. Coutts/AC34 recognize that. What they want to do is maximize their potential. First and foremost, bring back the Fremantle audience of 3,000,000.

 

And let's not forget that AC32 was pretty bloody good!

 

No it was bloody boring, old slow mono-hulls drifting around in the Med somewhere, an event no one watched and had TV execs (see Mr. Clean's comments) swearing they would never do another America's Cup.

 

Bring back the Fremantle audience with exciting racing in the worlds best sailing venue, San Francisco Bay. That provides a base that TV can live with and that really builds a brand and audience for the America's Cup. An audience that, once the AC is over, they will want MORE. Then using that audience and buzz bring in a few million other viewers who have some connection to the water and sports. Now you have accomplished the MODEST audience goals Coutts has stated.

 

It is all well and good making changes to attract a wider audienece.

 

Coutts has stated they are not going to make radical changes to the AC for the sake of attracting an audience. The cats were chosen because AC33 proved it was time for the AC to get back to its roots of the fastest boats that can be built. In the 21st century that is massive multi-hulls in a Deed of Gift race and simply big multi-hulls in a Mutual Consent race. The changes AC34 have made are evolutionary not revolutionary. The other 50% of the "change" is having the race in an exciting venue. That is San Francisco Bay and that completes the picture.

 

Those who wish the AC was a battle of super rich, taking each other on in DOG style matches simply aren't living in the real world. For instance, I do not think anybody would even consider a DOG challenge in the current global economic climate and withe the huge advantage and resources that Oracle Racing has

 

Dude! We just had exactly that not even a year ago. In the new Gilded Age of the 21st century of the super rich, it is certainly a reality. A Deed of Gift race off of Golden Gate would have to be in monster ocean racing trimarans for anyone to have a hope of winning. It would be fantastic. The climate of a roaring expansion in China with new billionaires popping up like clay soldiers? A climate of US stock market climbing rapidly and US corporate profits soaring. People like Ellison, Gates, Jobs, Buffet, Allen are richer now than ever. Oil tycoons, price of oil is up nicely thank you.

In that situation, the AC becomes a side show because challenges will be infrequent

Who knows. Maybe 2016 is Deed of Gift and 2020 is back to Mutual Consent.

 

Bottom line is that changes AC34 have made are evolutionary. Combined with a great venue they have a good chance of reclaiming the Fremantle audience and adding new boating and sports based audiences and making the AC34 a huge marketing success. It is already predestined to be a great sailing event and a great America's Cup race.

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However, in bringing it to the wider audience, certain fundementals need to remain. .. soccer offsides .. In the same way, the America's Cup should have some things that are sacred and not touched. My concern is that is not happening. And the issue isn't just this cycle. It is where this could lead.

Such as what things?

 

MC is pretty broad and so long as the Match comes down to a good Challenger up against a good Defender for the Cup, then the lead-up is all just a sideshow that hopefully helps create that ultimate Match. That is the sacred part to me, and I actually think in modern times the commercialism helps build to that.

I think we are close to agreement on this. One of the important things is that the lead up is just a side show. The problem I have is that the language beiung used suggests otherwise. For example, if you knew nothing about what is going one, how would you judge the relative importance of being the America's Cup World Champion against winning the America's Cup? As a sailor and fan of the AC, we know the answer but I asked my 12 year old daughter and she thought being World Champion was more important. Her view was winninjg against everybody was better than winning a race with just 2 boats.

 

Now, I accept this all comes down to how it is marketed and we will have to wait and see. However, in my view, the language used in this press release is worrying and leaves me apprehensive as to what will follow.

 

The other thing I think is sacred is that the America's Cup is a match. The founding fathers went away from fleet racing for a reason and while I have no objection to the teams fleet racing (it should be excting), again I think the way it is being done and the language used is also cause for concern.

 

I know we have been here before but to me, it is all about the hijacking of the AC "brand". There is a deliberate attempt to couple the AC brand with something that has nothing to do with the DOG. I know that nobody will do it, but I personally think that GGYC are in breach of their fudiciary duties as trustees in allowing it to happen. I think the only thing that saves them is that the term "America's Cup" isn't actually mentioned in the Deed. I know that sometime in the past, a trustee ensured that the term was protected and that the trustees have guarded the integrity of the brand.

 

I want to state again that I am not against the principal of the WS as such. If it had been called something else and the title won wasn't America's Cup World Champion, I wouldn't have an issue with it. I am suprised that ISAF haven't jumped in about the use of the words "World Champion" because the usual practice is to jump on anybody hard who ueses the term "World Champion" if the class doesn't have International status. And the AC45 and AC72 will not meet the requiements for International status. One assumes that ISAF is simply paid off and is therefore OK with it.

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To be fair Eagles, AC32 was certainly a success, TV and otherwise, in Western Europe, and could be considered a success in South Africa and China, at least until those teams were knocked out. It was just a failure everywhere else, though not too much worse than AC31 or AC30. The real problem was that ACM charged top dollar to broadcast it, then did nothing to help those broadcasters make sure they had a good product to sell to advertisers.

 

I think if the AC34 folks can prove (via the AC Whatever Series) that they can hold races on time with no or very very few delays, they will win back some TV execs over time.

 

 

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As a sailor and fan of the AC, we know the answer but I asked my 12 year old daughter and she thought being World Champion was more important. Her view was winninjg against everybody was better than winning a race with just 2 boats.

 

They are just codifying what so many in the pro community have done for years. When I interviewed DC a while ago, one of the things he was most insistent about was that sailors are basically a bunch of liars when they put "AC sailor" or "AC team manager" or whatever on their resumes, which they all do regardless of whether their team made it to the first round of the LVC or the actual Cup match. He yelled over the phone, "Which America's Cup did they sail in, because I certainly didn't see them there!" and told me that if everyone sailed for the America's Cup who said they did, it must have happened every year.

 

This is not going to be about tradition at all. This is SPORTS MARKETING 101 from some very smart people for whom tradition is just a buzz word. If they succeed at this grand experiment on the stage of major network television in the US, they will transform the sport - and top level competition - forever. If they fail, they will perhaps have damaged the thing beyond what even Bertarelli could have done if allowed.

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Oh, and ISAF? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA. ISAF is just thankful that Oracle leaves them alone about the whole AC33 fiasco. They'll get on their knees and take whatever Larry, Russell, and Tom decide to give them, thank you very much.

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To be fair Eagles, AC32 was certainly a success, TV and otherwise, in Western Europe, and could be considered a success in South Africa and China, at least until those teams were knocked out. It was just a failure everywhere else, though not too much worse than AC31 or AC30. The real problem was that ACM charged top dollar to broadcast it, then did nothing to help those broadcasters make sure they had a good product to sell to advertisers.

 

I think if the AC34 folks can prove (via the AC Whatever Series) that they can hold races on time with no or very very few delays, they will win back some TV execs over time.

 

 

I didn't watch AC32. I watched AC33. I'm an old time AC fan, been to a couple and I'm not a sailor. I'm the "Fremantle audience" that has gone away. As for the "success" in Europe, I'd wager less of success than Fremantle by probably the same percentage loss numbers as in the US. European sailing audiences catch a cold, US sailing audiences die. AC33 was the top of the game that America's Cup is supposed to be. SF will be Fremantle again, not the pure monster battle of AC33 but that edge of the seat survival race of Fremantle, equally attractive.

 

As for the AC45's, I think they are dicking around not putting them all together in Auckland, having an "off Broadway" race off Rangitoto, get some sponsor paint jobs on the them (someone will have imagination enough to go Banshee) and get them to SF Bay to show the concept ASAP. Then troll them around Europe and Asia. it's a race in SF that AC34 is selling. It's a race in SF that sponsors are buying. Show me the money race.

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I didn't watch AC32.

 

 

You did not watch AC32 but you allow yourself to state it was boring, that TV was not good, etc. Shows your credibility.

 

TV at AC32 was close to the best that could be provided considering people such as BOR team or Butterworth did not want mikes on board, not too many cameras on board, etc. Just for selfish sake.

 

So now, that Coutts has imposed on everyone what he never was willing to accept, product will be still better. But will it be good enough to have real network exposure? Time will tell

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The real problem was that ACM charged top dollar to broadcast it, then did nothing to help those broadcasters make sure they had a good product to sell to advertisers.

 

 

Mr. Clean, could you please elaborate on this and give us some numbers so we can benchmark what is top dollars and what should have been done to please broadcasters? You seem to have first hand information.

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I didn't watch AC32.

 

 

You did not watch AC32 but you allow yourself to state it was boring

 

That's why I didn't watch. It was of no interest, boring old mono-hull race I could see anywhere. They diluted the brand with "America's Cup" races all over the place. I turned on the "Grass Growing Channel" instead.

 

that TV was not good, etc.

 

Have no idea of whether the TV coverage was good or not. I'd guess the usual characters, Montgomery doing his best to make it sound exciting. "And we have another leaf appearing, it looks to be two shoots now, a lawn is coming folks, I can feel it"

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The real problem was that ACM charged top dollar to broadcast it, then did nothing to help those broadcasters make sure they had a good product to sell to advertisers.

 

 

Mr. Clean, could you please elaborate on this and give us some numbers so we can benchmark what is top dollars and what should have been done to please broadcasters? You seem to have first hand information.

 

My info comes from one confidential discussion with an executive at Versus and a few discussions with a top ACM employee, and in neither case am I allowed to give out numbers. But I was told that Versus was promised that races would be run under completely different circumstances than they were - the programming directors relied on what the contract said and not what common sense would have, but they weren't sailors so how could they know? They were also told that there would be North American announcers for provided for the Versus feed but there weren't for a lot of it. They were also told that there was a top US PR agency that would be building buzz in North America. They were also promised that ACM would set up agreements for AC existing advertisers to sign for North American advertising with Versus, but it never happened. The advertisers they did have got burned by light air and heavy air postponements. The network got burned by zero PR in the States. And they swore off sailing.

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The real problem was that ACM charged top dollar to broadcast it, then did nothing to help those broadcasters make sure they had a good product to sell to advertisers.

 

 

Mr. Clean, could you please elaborate on this and give us some numbers so we can benchmark what is top dollars and what should have been done to please broadcasters? You seem to have first hand information.

 

My info comes from one confidential discussion with an executive at Versus and a few discussions with a top ACM employee, and in neither case am I allowed to give out numbers. But I was told that Versus was promised that races would be run under completely different circumstances than they were - the programming directors relied on what the contract said and not what common sense would have, but they weren't sailors so how could they know? They were also told that there would be North American announcers for provided for the Versus feed but there weren't for a lot of it. They were also told that there was a top US PR agency that would be building buzz in North America. They were also promised that ACM would set up agreements for AC existing advertisers to sign for North American advertising with Versus, but it never happened. The advertisers they did have got burned by light air and heavy air postponements. The network got burned by zero PR in the States. And they swore off sailing.

Some of what Clean says is true, and the TV companies did pay more than they had ever paid for sailing. I have been told that the current plan calls for even more TV revenue this time!

 

However, there are 2 sides to every story and as I am sure Clean knows, Versus and other companies didn't have a leg to stand on regarding non performance by ACM. But all that talk gets in the way of examining the real problem, which was the weather. The TV companies didn't understand or make any contingency for what happened and it was a complete farce. TV in Austalia also got burnt in exactly the same way as the USA. However, they stuck with live transmissions of the racing and I thought it was the best coverage of that type of event. However, just like all sailing on TV, it was of zero interest to anybody other than sailors. I suspect the weather problem was a big influence in choosing SF and the wind limits that the protocol calls for.

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My info comes from one confidential discussion with an executive at Versus and a few discussions with a top ACM employee, and in neither case am I allowed to give out numbers. But I was told that Versus was promised that races would be run under completely different circumstances than they were - the programming directors relied on what the contract said and not what common sense would have, but they weren't sailors so how could they know? They were also told that there would be North American announcers for provided for the Versus feed but there weren't for a lot of it. They were also told that there was a top US PR agency that would be building buzz in North America. They were also promised that ACM would set up agreements for AC existing advertisers to sign for North American advertising with Versus, but it never happened. The advertisers they did have got burned by light air and heavy air postponements. The network got burned by zero PR in the States. And they swore off sailing.

 

Oh come on Clean. Versus were no babies when it came to broadcasting sailing events. Under it's previous guise as Outdoor Life Network (OLN) it broadcast over 300 hours of live AC31 Louis Vuitton Cup racing and was broadcasting the AC32 LV Acts.

 

Versus's problem was that it way overbid ESPN for AC32 North American broadcast rights, couldn't get local advertisers on board and couldn't cover it's costs so took a bath financially.

 

Meanwhile here in little NZ we had fantastic live coverage via TVNZ. Mind you TVNZ did write the book on how to broadcast sailing events.

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The language of this announcement is deeply troubling and anybody who loves the AC should be concerned. To share that concern does not mean you don't like multis or the format of events. That is a completely different issue.

:) Spinray is looking for the big conspiracy, and it's staring us all in the face, with a big smiley on top of it : forget about George Schuyler, forget about the Liptons, Vanderbilts and all those famous names on which the AC was built, forget about all of them, that's what we are supposed to do, wipe out those names, get them gone out of the collective memory, and replace them by the one name : Larry Ellison ... that's the ultimate grand plan and step by step the unwashed masses are brainwashed into this grand idea, hail Larry ! (and Spinray is one of his high priests ... or at least that's his aspiration) B):D

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Here's what the Protocol says

--

 

25.3 On or before 1 July 2011 the format of the ACCS shall be agreed by a majority of the

Challengers and the Regatta Director.

25.4 The ACCS shall end not less than five days nor more than ten days before the

scheduled first race of the Match, unless otherwise agreed by GGYC.

 

--

 

There could be an issue in "shall be agreed by a majority of the Challengers and the Regatta Director" because it suggests that if the RD does does agree with the majority of the Challengers, or visa versa - same thing, then there's an implied deadlock that requires some kind of negotiation. ...

 

Yep you might be right, then why does the press release say:

 

WHO:

Under the Protocol Governing the America's Cup, GGYC as the Defending Club has the responsibility to select the dates.

 

I know that today ACEA/ACRM/BOR/GGYC/CORE are all the same thing, just saying.... conspiracy :o

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Wow wot a great discussion..

 

From a nursing home perspective, the AC is great even multi-hulls.. but basically to those not on feeding tubes the AC is fucking boring dull.. worth about 45 secs of interests....

dull fucking dull..

 

ain't gonna compete with kids hi-tech shite on XBOX even bollywood in cash terms can not compete wif games(hollywood rip.. so they deserve through being dull and vision-less shite - beancounter and lawyer deadbeat crap)

 

the personalities of the AC are oxymorons and morons too.. dull, dull and fucking duller apart from a few queens!.. get the old DC back a greed bastard firing on all 4's (that's a complement btw)

 

The expectations of the struggling terrestrial media by the AC is a loony as wussel is dull n dreay loike n Auckland summers day.. tv co's won't pay... repeat tv co's won;t pay

 

Will be a laugh watching these greedy assholes comes to terms with the new media reality.. ain't gonna happen dolls.... unless you morth the thang into xbox land but seeing most the ac folk are so fucking old loike me not a chance..

 

AC was a great ocean race fueled by greed.. world has changed the audience for both sailing has gone..too hard. too greedy.. too bad..

 

however there is a better way.. requires vision NOT greed so fuck that then

 

back to putting cabbage in my feeding tube though will be a bit messy in the morning

 

:D

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Yep you might be right, then why does the press release say:

 

missed 25.1: GGYC select the dates. EDIT: and venue.

 

EDIT2: the offending text regarding "initially" is nowhere to be seen in the offical texts, at least as of 26/Jan Europe Noon.

 

Not sure where the Renn presser was picked up

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The language of this announcement is deeply troubling and anybody who loves the AC should be concerned. To share that concern does not mean you don't like multis or the format of events. That is a completely different issue.

:) Spinray is looking for the big conspiracy, and it's staring us all in the face, with a big smiley on top of it : forget about George Schuyler, forget about the Liptons, Vanderbilts and all those famous names on which the AC was built, forget about all of them, that's what we are supposed to do, wipe out those names, get them gone out of the collective memory, and replace them by the one name : Larry Ellison ... that's the ultimate grand plan and step by step the unwashed masses are brainwashed into this grand idea, hail Larry ! (and Spinray is one of his high priests ... or at least that's his aspiration) B):D

I must be getting soft in my old age because yet again, I am going to defend Larry! I don't think he is behind what is going on. I believe that it is RC and he has sold his vision to LE. For AC31 and 32, LE was pretty directly involved with the team. For AC33 he signed over all control to RC and RC still has that control. He has become the money man, not the ideas man. RC delivered what he promised, the Cup. Now he has free reign.

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The language of this announcement is deeply troubling and anybody who loves the AC should be concerned. To share that concern does not mean you don't like multis or the format of events. That is a completely different issue.

:) Spinray is looking for the big conspiracy, and it's staring us all in the face, with a big smiley on top of it : forget about George Schuyler, forget about the Liptons, Vanderbilts and all those famous names on which the AC was built, forget about all of them, that's what we are supposed to do, wipe out those names, get them gone out of the collective memory, and replace them by the one name : Larry Ellison ... that's the ultimate grand plan and step by step the unwashed masses are brainwashed into this grand idea, hail Larry ! (and Spinray is one of his high priests ... or at least that's his aspiration) B):D

I must be getting soft in my old age because yet again, I am going to defend Larry! I don't think he is behind what is going on. I believe that it is RC and he has sold his vision to LE. For AC31 and 32, LE was pretty directly involved with the team. For AC33 he signed over all control to RC and RC still has that control. He has become the money man, not the ideas man. RC delivered what he promised, the Cup. Now he has free reign.

 

 

jeezes Simon, how many of those emoticons does it take ?

it might be correct that Ellison is buying Wusselvision, but you can't just dismiss the fact that no matter whose vision it is, it's quite a drastic and dramatic change and at the end of the day it's Ellison's name that is on top, and that's for history, and that's fact. I'd think that having his name cast in golden letters next to, or maybe even on top of these "AC fathers" names might not have been the primary goal, but it sure would be a nice side effect, a nice to have. A place in history, that's the only thing these ueber rich moguls can aspire to after they have gotten all the $$$ and power in the world.

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Yep you might be right, then why does the press release say:

 

missed 25.1: GGYC select the dates. EDIT: and venue.

 

EDIT2: the offending text regarding "initially" is nowhere to be seen in the offical texts, at least as of 26/Jan Europe Noon.

 

Not sure where the Renn presser was picked up

It was an e-mail sent to me, but you can also try here: http://media.americascup.com/pressreleases/?id=37

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For all the stick I get, people seem to miss the argument in their desire to attack. At least Stingray understood the point I was making.

 

Most of what concerns me isn't the exact formats as such. Maybe I am concerned about the enphasis on fleet racing in teh WS, but even that I can live with if handled correctly. I have no issue with multis as such and think they will give us great fleet racing. I do have concerns about them for match racing, but it's an exciting experiment.

 

The issues I have is around language and where that leads us. I refuse to accept that this press release is sloppy work because the people working on this edition of the Cup are top rate. I think the words are very deliberate. I am sure they were vetted by many. The message is simple and is for marketing purposes. This edition of the AC cycle is different.

 

The problem is in the language and as this is all about attracting new viewers/followers to the sport and to the AC, you need to put yourself in the position of those people. They do not know of the history and traditions of the Cup, the things that have made the Cup great. And let's not forget that AC32 was pretty bloody good! What this announcement says is that what we all know as the America's Cup is now just part of the bigger picture. It is only "the final". I find that a real problem because if this continues evolving, where is it going?

 

It is all well and good making changes to attract a wider audienec. That helps get sponsors which make this event happen. We have to be realistic about it. Those who wish the AC was a battle of super rich, taking each other on in DOG style matches simply aren't living in the real world. In that situation, the AC becomes a side show because challenges will be infrequent. For instance, I do not think anybody would even consider a DOG challenge in the current global economic climate and withe the huge advantage and resources that Oracle Racing has.

 

However, in bringing it to the wider audienec, certain fundementals need to remain. There has been much debate in soccer about the offside rule. It is believed that this one rule causes more confusion and puts off people morethan anything else. Yet it is fundemental to the sport. I cannot see it being removed from the rule book. In the same way, the America's Cup should have some things that are sacred and not touched. My concern is that is not happening. And the issue isn't just this cycle. It is where this could lead.

 

The language of this announcement is deeply troubling and anybody who loves the AC should be concerned. To share that concern does not mean you don't like multis or the format of events. That is a completely different issue.

 

Soccer sucks.

 

'nuff said.

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For all the stick I get, people seem to miss the argument in their desire to attack. At least Stingray understood the point I was making.

 

Most of what concerns me isn't the exact formats as such. Maybe I am concerned about the enphasis on fleet racing in teh WS, but even that I can live with if handled correctly. I have no issue with multis as such and think they will give us great fleet racing. I do have concerns about them for match racing, but it's an exciting experiment.

 

The issues I have is around language and where that leads us. I refuse to accept that this press release is sloppy work because the people working on this edition of the Cup are top rate. I think the words are very deliberate. I am sure they were vetted by many. The message is simple and is for marketing purposes. This edition of the AC cycle is different.

 

The problem is in the language and as this is all about attracting new viewers/followers to the sport and to the AC, you need to put yourself in the position of those people. They do not know of the history and traditions of the Cup, the things that have made the Cup great. And let's not forget that AC32 was pretty bloody good! What this announcement says is that what we all know as the America's Cup is now just part of the bigger picture. It is only "the final". I find that a real problem because if this continues evolving, where is it going?

 

It is all well and good making changes to attract a wider audienec. That helps get sponsors which make this event happen. We have to be realistic about it. Those who wish the AC was a battle of super rich, taking each other on in DOG style matches simply aren't living in the real world. In that situation, the AC becomes a side show because challenges will be infrequent. For instance, I do not think anybody would even consider a DOG challenge in the current global economic climate and withe the huge advantage and resources that Oracle Racing has.

 

However, in bringing it to the wider audienec, certain fundementals need to remain. There has been much debate in soccer about the offside rule. It is believed that this one rule causes more confusion and puts off people morethan anything else. Yet it is fundemental to the sport. I cannot see it being removed from the rule book. In the same way, the America's Cup should have some things that are sacred and not touched. My concern is that is not happening. And the issue isn't just this cycle. It is where this could lead.

 

The language of this announcement is deeply troubling and anybody who loves the AC should be concerned. To share that concern does not mean you don't like multis or the format of events. That is a completely different issue.

 

 

 

Love your passion for this event. I love the history of it too, but I am not worried about the shake up and where it is going. I truly believe LE, RC et al, love it too. They wouldn't have committed themselves so fully if they didn't. I am behind their desire to try and widen the interest and take it to a larger audience.

They may fail, or they may simply put on an event that doesn't get any bigger than AC 32 or 31. Maybe it goes right back to the way it was. Who knows. But the experiment will be fun to watch and be a part of. Hopefully they know they have a lot of educating to do too, as well as development of a new boat and winning races. It's all part of the new huge responsibility right?

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However, in bringing it to the wider audience, certain fundementals need to remain. .. soccer offsides .. In the same way, the America's Cup should have some things that are sacred and not touched. My concern is that is not happening. And the issue isn't just this cycle. It is where this could lead.

Such as what things?

 

MC is pretty broad and so long as the Match comes down to a good Challenger up against a good Defender for the Cup, then the lead-up is all just a sideshow that hopefully helps create that ultimate Match. That is the sacred part to me, and I actually think in modern times the commercialism helps build to that.

 

This summerizes pretty well what your masters believe: "MC is pretty broad and so long as the Match comes down to a good Challenger up against a good Defender for the Cup", then we can do what we want with the Deed and the AC...

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What's with the hate? Maybe that's too strong but I get the impression that there remains a large contingency of fans who are still bitter or pissed at how AC 33 went down, and possibly still harboring ill will at other AC Matches. I want to embrace AC34, be proud that it's in the USA. These guys, Ian and Russell C have they're hands full. Theyre going to f/u some things. They readily admit this and have plans to improve from the lessons they learn. It's an evolution, why not give it a chance? Excellent points about competing sports. Maybe the NFL will be in lockout. Mr. Ellison should push ESPN for a AC channel.

 

I may be naive or in a minority, but I'm 100% behind AC34 and want to see it, and the sport grow and succeed. Peace out.

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What's with the hate? Maybe that's too strong but I get the impression that there remains a large contingency of fans who are still bitter or pissed at how AC 33 went down, and possibly still harboring ill will at other AC Matches.

You noticed that too, eh ?

 

Actually I think it's more like a handful of haters that want to do everything possible to disrupt things. Their was a host of haters during the litigation, and most were smart enough to crawl back under their rocks, but a select few remain.

 

All the haters are sore losers and are still reeling in the hangover of the 33rd match, despite the fact that EB was one of the biggest cheaters and openly admitted BMWO won fair and square.

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What's with the hate? Maybe that's too strong but I get the impression that there remains a large contingency of fans who are still bitter or pissed at how AC 33 went down, and possibly still harboring ill will at other AC Matches.

You noticed that too, eh ?

 

Actually I think it's more like a handful of haters that want to do everything possible to disrupt things. Their was a host of haters during the litigation, and most were smart enough to crawl back under their rocks, but a select few remain.

 

All the haters are sore losers and are still reeling in the hangover of the 33rd match, despite the fact that EB was one of the biggest cheaters and openly admitted BMWO won fair and square.

 

Sometimes you make me laugh SW. Was not this site the biggest host of haters of Alinghi and EB ? and you, are not you the champion of these haters? :D

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What's with the hate? Maybe that's too strong but I get the impression that there remains a large contingency of fans who are still bitter or pissed at how AC 33 went down, and possibly still harboring ill will at other AC Matches.

You noticed that too, eh ?

 

Actually I think it's more like a handful of haters that want to do everything possible to disrupt things. Their was a host of haters during the litigation, and most were smart enough to crawl back under their rocks, but a select few remain.

 

All the haters are sore losers and are still reeling in the hangover of the 33rd match, despite the fact that EB was one of the biggest cheaters and openly admitted BMWO won fair and square.

 

Sometimes you make me laugh SW. Was not this site the biggest host of haters of Alinghi and EB ? and you, are not you the champion of these haters? :D

Compared to what, BYM ? Is that a revelation to you or did you just wake up ?

 

Not worth discussing with you, but I guess you're a champion of cheaters then.

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What's with the hate? Maybe that's too strong but I get the impression that there remains a large contingency of fans who are still bitter or pissed at how AC 33 went down, and possibly still harboring ill will at other AC Matches.

You noticed that too, eh ?

 

Actually I think it's more like a handful of haters that want to do everything possible to disrupt things. Their was a host of haters during the litigation, and most were smart enough to crawl back under their rocks, but a select few remain.

 

All the haters are sore losers and are still reeling in the hangover of the 33rd match, despite the fact that EB was one of the biggest cheaters and openly admitted BMWO won fair and square.

Don't be so full of shit!! There are many more of us who supported BMWO in all the AC33 legal shenanigans, enjoyed their success, and rejoiced when they celebrated their triumph. Those of us who supported BMWO in AC33 did so because we did not agree with what Bertarelli was attempting to do: ironically, the same concerns which have made us critical of the OR-Ellison-Coutts hypocrisy. The same issues which galvanised the international and American anarchists in AC33 have now divided the internationals from the Americans over AC34. The American anarchists refuse to see anything wrong, as long as the AC is back in the us of a.

 

 

Hypocrisy would appear to be a way of life for most of the yanks on ACA.

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