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Pretty bad comparison, comparing Nat J to a T10 regarding travel. T10 is the poor mans racer, not traveling is the norm.

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Pretty bad comparison, comparing Nat J to a T10 regarding travel. T10 is the poor mans racer, not traveling is the norm.

I am not comparing Natalie to T-10s. Just pointing out that she travels and wins.

 

Ohio based T-10s travel to Michigan and Detroit and Port Huron Tens travel to Ohio. On their trailers not on their bottoms.

 

Do any Chicago Tens have trailers?

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Pretty bad comparison, comparing Nat J to a T10 regarding travel. T10 is the poor mans racer, not traveling is the norm.

I am not comparing Natalie to T-10s. Just pointing out that she travels and wins.

 

Ohio based T-10s travel to Michigan and Detroit and Port Huron Tens travel to Ohio. On their trailers not on their bottoms.

 

Do any Chicago Tens have trailers?

 

Many of them do.

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It's always sweet when a Detroit team dominates in chi town.

Stay classy Detroit, stay classy. smh

Come on over and win at our house.

 

Then you can brag and we won't whine.

Whine? lol, so sensitive

 

2nd city issues?

 

No second city issues here. Chicago has money, Detroit has talent.

 

Natalie J has done some traveling and winning.

 

Too bad the large T-10 fleet won't travel. Chicago Tens have been absent at the last two NACC's.

 

 

The T-10 NA's were scheduled during the Chicago Verve, more competition here. 2 Ohio ran away with the NA's in Detroit anyways. Come on down next year we will be waiting for you, first round at CCYC on me!

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Bad Andy,

 

I'll push me skipper to make the trip. I always enjoy racing in Chicago.

 

It was a Port Huron boat that won the NA's in Detroit in 2015. Heidi killed us this year in the One-Designs.

 

A Cleveland boat won the 2016 NA's.

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Bad Andy,

 

I'll push me skipper to make the trip. I always enjoy racing in Chicago.

 

It was a Port Huron boat that won the NA's in Detroit in 2015. Heidi killed us this year in the One-Designs.

 

A Cleveland boat won the 2016 NA's.

Ah yes you are correct, got the locations mixed up between this year and last year. See you next August!

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Not sailing based, or Chicago area, but something in the area that we are familiar with in the Straits making our way to the Island during Mac Races... This was on Labor Day Monday.

 

Here is a quick little write up for everyone, if you are interested. Thank you again for all of your well wishes and support! It helped carry me through! Also, there may be more photos coming later.
====================================================
It was a bit of a challenge. There was about 2' chop from the South we were swimming against. Current wasn't too bad going from W to E. Water temp was an excellent 69 degrees, perfect for a full wetsuit, or even a sleeveless one. I was expecting about 5-5.5 hours. On a calm day, in the 4 hr range. Surprised myself finishing in 3:28:08. 34 went into the water, 30 came out. 1 had a medical, 1 quit, and 2 were DQ'd for violating the Exclusion Zone. Not sure how that happened with support boats guiding helping to make sure that didn't happen. Somewhere between the S Tower and S Caisson, the waves calmed down a bit and I was able to really swim and cruise well. Had a support boat right with me all the way from there to the end. I was third from last out of the water, but no matter, I did it! First place was Chris Thompson, Olympian, World Record Holder, U of M Water Polo standout, and Open Water Swim trainer to the Navy Seals. Most everyone was a Collegiate Swimmer or something like that. He won a 20k check! So did the first woman to cross the finish line. She is a professional triathlete from Arizona. Great times!

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in·fe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
  1. an unrealistic feeling of general inadequacy caused by actual or supposed inferiority in one sphere, sometimes marked by aggressive behavior in compensation. Aka; the 'Detroit Complex'

 

Not hardly mister.

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in·fe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
  1. an unrealistic feeling of general inadequacy caused by actual or supposed inferiority in one sphere, sometimes marked by aggressive behavior in compensation. Aka; the 'Detroit Complex'

 

Not hardly mister.

 

lol, I don't know you were pretty quick on the reply :lol:

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in·fe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
  1. an unrealistic feeling of general inadequacy caused by actual or supposed inferiority in one sphere, sometimes marked by aggressive behavior in compensation. Aka; the 'Detroit Complex'

 

Not hardly mister.

 

lol, I don't know you were pretty quick on the reply :lol:

 

Luck of the draw pal.

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in·fe·ri·or·i·ty com·plex
noun
  1. an unrealistic feeling of general inadequacy caused by actual or supposed inferiority in one sphere, sometimes marked by aggressive behavior in compensation. Aka; the 'Detroit Complex'

 

Not hardly mister.

 

lol, I don't know you were pretty quick on the reply :lol:

 

Luck of the draw pal.

 

testy testy

 

I will say though that North Windsor is a blast!

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He was Irish driver. No beer for Wally, though.

 

He had an interesting history. You would have enjoyed the conversation. I always did.

Note the memorial for the Wallenator this Friday.

 

T

 

Walter O'Sullivan Jr.

Obituary Condolences

Walter F. "Wally" O'Sullivan Jr., 55, of Oak Park, formerly of Glenview; Passed away suddenly, August 12, 2016. Loving father of Clare O'Sullivan. Beloved son of Mary Lou (The Late Donald) Steffens and the late Walter F. O'Sullivan. Dear brother of Julia, Brian (Karen), Mark (Ingrid), and Patrick O'Sullivan. Fond uncle of Antonio, Chia, Kevin, Andrew, Margaret and Kyle. Former husband of Kathleen Fleming. Family and friends will meet for funeral mass 3 p.m. Friday, September 16, at Our Lady of Perpetual Help Church, 1775 Grove St. Glenview. Interment Private. In lieu of flowers memorials may be made to Sr. Paulanne's Needy Family Fund, C/O OLPH, 1775 Grove Street, Glenview, IL 60025. Funeral info, 847-998-1020.

Published in a Chicago Tribune Media Group Publication from Aug. 28 to Sept. 11, 2016

Read Less

- See more at: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/chicagotribune/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=181212629#sthash.ImvTpsoe.dpuf

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Can anyone recommend a good boat broker (seller) in Chicago area?[/quot

 

 

Ray Bock mariner yacht sales I know he is not chicago based but is always in the area has sold many boats in chicago

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While I greatly respect both Rich and Lou (et al) who have done a magnificent job in building the J-Boat and Bene fleets in Chicago, respectively, Bruce is probably a better match for representing an older CC& 35 on the brokerage market.

 

Full disclosure - Bruce and I go waaaay back...

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We are here and we did race today, although we did not do very well. It has been blowing 25 - 30 for most of the regatta, although there was a little less wind today. We have only owned the boat for a few months and our crew is not nearly as experienced as the top (or any of the) teams here. We were out in the heavy stuff earlier this week but realized we needed to practice more in these conditions before we felt comfortable racing.

 

It has been a humbling and amazing experience. The class (both the teams and the management) have been so helpful and accommodating.

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We are here and we did race today, although we did not do very well. It has been blowing 25 - 30 for most of the regatta, although there was a little less wind today. We have only owned the boat for a few months and our crew is not nearly as experienced as the top (or any of the) teams here. We were out in the heavy stuff earlier this week but realized we needed to practice more in these conditions before we felt comfortable racing.

 

It has been a humbling and amazing experience. The class (both the teams and the management) have been so helpful and accommodating.

Welcome to SA.

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JC,

Do you sail anymore or have you retired to SA Forum Manager?! :lol: I came out of retirement this year and did all Wed Nights at CCYC and even my first Bi-State in 6 years...

Beyond the NOOD you have been MIA, at least from my vantage. I was surprised I didn't see you in St. Joe as you were a regular in the old Goblin days...

 

SOTM

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JC,

 

Do you sail anymore or have you retired to SA Forum Manager?! :lol: I came out of retirement this year and did all Wed Nights at CCYC and even my first Bi-State in 6 years...

Beyond the NOOD you have been MIA, at least from my vantage. I was surprised I didn't see you in St. Joe as you were a regular in the old Goblin days...

 

SOTM

JC's a highly sought after Cat-1 sailor. Two North American championships this year.

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Correction, I sailed in 2 NA's. I hope I didn't give people the wrong impression.

 

To Chris Murray:

I sailed on a J111 this summer and last. We just do the big 4 major regattas. I missed my first Bi/Tri-State in about 15 years due to 36.7 NA's being over Labor Day. I slummed around on another few boats. I love my J111 ride, it's a fun boat and a casual schedule, witch gives me more time to fuck around. Circus is for sale, I'm sailing smaller boats, and I'm not always pandering to find crew for the bigger boats like I used to. I loved the time I had on the bigger boats, but the scene is not what it used to be. Again, the J111 is a kickass boat, and if I had the scratch, that's what I'd buy. Comfortable, fast, and easy to sail with 6-7 people, not 15 like the old days.

See you around, eh?

jc

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Thank god. I was worried for a minute Calto. B)

 

Never been on a J/111 but looks like they got the lines right and it seems to move well. What's the Chicago count on them now? 6?

 

8 in Chicago

1 Waukegan

1 Milwaukee

3 or 4 around Holland, MI

 

of course there are

2 in Harbor Springs

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JC lives part-time on the West Coast as a pro Farr 40 sailor, yes?

 

 

The J111 cheerleading squawk working hard on the forum this year...

 

 

Is there a problem with a growing class and folks chatting about it?

 

Seems weird

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If you are squawking on SA, then you are not in the market for a J111.

 

"you're luffing"

"No,...I'm tacking"

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FWIW

LMSRF Area III Implements Plan to Grow

Offshore Sailboat Racing in Southern Lake Michigan

 

The Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation Area III Steering Committee was disbanded Thursday, October 6, 2016, after seeing a 40% decrease in sailboat racing participation in the past 15 years. After hearing feedback from member Yacht Clubs, racers, and race committees who run the races that the reduced participation is causing costs to escalate for those who continue racing, consideration of some races being eliminated due to costs, the only solution is to grow participation.

 

This led to the creation of a new committee of the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation (LMSRF), the LMSRF Area III Racing Growth Committee (A3RGC). The A3RGCs membership is made up of the LMSRF member yacht clubs between St. Joseph, Michigan through Indiana up to Winthrop Harbor, Illinois.

 

This new committees focus is on growth that comes in three pillars:

 

1. Offshore One Design Fleets Subcommittee shall be focused on assuring they have fleet parties annually throughout the year. Secondly, annually in February the leaders of all Offshore One Design Fleets shall have dinner together, then call all of their Fleets boat owners from every harbor in LMSRF Area III. They shall have set questions and record what it will take to get these boats out to the starting line regularly in 2017. This information shall be fed back into the A3RGC to be used to make changes to respond to all customer's needs.

 

2. The A3RGC shall use electronic surveys to learn from its customers (boat owners and crews) what it is they want in racing and parties? This data shall be used in formulating the racing program for the sailors used by the clubs running open races. Owners and crews are all customers of racing.

 

3. The existing offshore sail racing fleet shall be called the Gran Prix Fleet. The survey responses shall determine their racing schedule and formats for 2017.

 

A new fleet is to be created - the Grand Touring Fleet. They will compete in single races on Saturdays only. This fleet shall be made up of boats new to LA3 racing. Seminars shall be held at clubs throughout the spring inviting the beer can race series boats to attend and each club's remaining sailboat owners who haven't raced previously. The seminars will start with the basics: rules, handicaps, safety regulations, etc., providing the reading materials that are necessary for these people to begin their racing careers. Later seminars shall cover boat preparation, crew preparation, etc. Boats looking to give sailboat racing in the Grand Touring Fleet a try shall be assigned an experienced mentor.

 

Races are expected to be simple and easy. The course will be possibly a large triangle or a course to a government buoy and back, not necessarily windward-leeward, with a 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hour time target. The Grand Touring Fleet will work to simplify entry for first year racers: most likely not requiring official handicap certificates and instead have a provisional handicap provided by a subcommittee, not requiring membership in a yacht club for two years, or US Sailing for one year, or the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation for one year. The LA3AGC is to make it simple: enter, show up to a starting line, and return to a finish line to get a shot at a trophy.

 

Sail limitations shall apply in the Grand Touring Fleet: a maximum purchase of two new sails per year, and it is likely there shall be sail material limitations as well. Offerings of spinnaker and Jib and Main racing sections will be made available.

 

LMSRF Commodore Gordon Julius, III, said, "A new era is here that has been long overdue. We thank all who provided the input we have received from so many sources to design this new A3RGC business plan. In two of our other Areas, Area II (Manitowoc, Wisconsin to Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin) and Area V (Point Betsie, Michigan to Mackinac Island, Michigan), they have run similar programs for the past four years successfully. This is a tested plan. We look forward to renewed growth in the most populated region of our great lake, Lake Michigan."

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FWIW

LMSRF Area III Implements Plan to Grow

Offshore Sailboat Racing in Southern Lake Michigan

 

The Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation Area III Steering Committee was disbanded Thursday, October 6, 2016, after seeing a 40% decrease in sailboat racing participation in the past 15 years. After hearing feedback from member Yacht Clubs, racers, and race committees who run the races that the reduced participation is causing costs to escalate for those who continue racing, consideration of some races being eliminated due to costs, the only solution is to grow participation.

 

This led to the creation of a new committee of the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation (LMSRF), the LMSRF Area III Racing Growth Committee (A3RGC). The A3RGCs membership is made up of the LMSRF member yacht clubs between St. Joseph, Michigan through Indiana up to Winthrop Harbor, Illinois.

 

This new committees focus is on growth that comes in three pillars:

 

1. Offshore One Design Fleets Subcommittee shall be focused on assuring they have fleet parties annually throughout the year. Secondly, annually in February the leaders of all Offshore One Design Fleets shall have dinner together, then call all of their Fleets boat owners from every harbor in LMSRF Area III. They shall have set questions and record what it will take to get these boats out to the starting line regularly in 2017. This information shall be fed back into the A3RGC to be used to make changes to respond to all customer's needs.

 

2. The A3RGC shall use electronic surveys to learn from its customers (boat owners and crews) what it is they want in racing and parties? This data shall be used in formulating the racing program for the sailors used by the clubs running open races. Owners and crews are all customers of racing.

 

3. The existing offshore sail racing fleet shall be called the Gran Prix Fleet. The survey responses shall determine their racing schedule and formats for 2017.

 

A new fleet is to be created - the Grand Touring Fleet. They will compete in single races on Saturdays only. This fleet shall be made up of boats new to LA3 racing. Seminars shall be held at clubs throughout the spring inviting the beer can race series boats to attend and each club's remaining sailboat owners who haven't raced previously. The seminars will start with the basics: rules, handicaps, safety regulations, etc., providing the reading materials that are necessary for these people to begin their racing careers. Later seminars shall cover boat preparation, crew preparation, etc. Boats looking to give sailboat racing in the Grand Touring Fleet a try shall be assigned an experienced mentor.

 

Races are expected to be simple and easy. The course will be possibly a large triangle or a course to a government buoy and back, not necessarily windward-leeward, with a 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hour time target. The Grand Touring Fleet will work to simplify entry for first year racers: most likely not requiring official handicap certificates and instead have a provisional handicap provided by a subcommittee, not requiring membership in a yacht club for two years, or US Sailing for one year, or the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation for one year. The LA3AGC is to make it simple: enter, show up to a starting line, and return to a finish line to get a shot at a trophy.

 

Sail limitations shall apply in the Grand Touring Fleet: a maximum purchase of two new sails per year, and it is likely there shall be sail material limitations as well. Offerings of spinnaker and Jib and Main racing sections will be made available.

 

LMSRF Commodore Gordon Julius, III, said, "A new era is here that has been long overdue. We thank all who provided the input we have received from so many sources to design this new A3RGC business plan. In two of our other Areas, Area II (Manitowoc, Wisconsin to Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin) and Area V (Point Betsie, Michigan to Mackinac Island, Michigan), they have run similar programs for the past four years successfully. This is a tested plan. We look forward to renewed growth in the most populated region of our great lake, Lake Michigan."

Little said about handicap racing. Is it dead?

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FWIW

LMSRF Area III Implements Plan to Grow

Offshore Sailboat Racing in Southern Lake Michigan

 

The Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation Area III Steering Committee was disbanded Thursday, October 6, 2016, after seeing a 40% decrease in sailboat racing participation in the past 15 years. After hearing feedback from member Yacht Clubs, racers, and race committees who run the races that the reduced participation is causing costs to escalate for those who continue racing, consideration of some races being eliminated due to costs, the only solution is to grow participation.

 

This led to the creation of a new committee of the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation (LMSRF), the LMSRF Area III Racing Growth Committee (A3RGC). The A3RGCs membership is made up of the LMSRF member yacht clubs between St. Joseph, Michigan through Indiana up to Winthrop Harbor, Illinois.

 

This new committees focus is on growth that comes in three pillars:

 

1. Offshore One Design Fleets Subcommittee shall be focused on assuring they have fleet parties annually throughout the year. Secondly, annually in February the leaders of all Offshore One Design Fleets shall have dinner together, then call all of their Fleets boat owners from every harbor in LMSRF Area III. They shall have set questions and record what it will take to get these boats out to the starting line regularly in 2017. This information shall be fed back into the A3RGC to be used to make changes to respond to all customer's needs.

 

2. The A3RGC shall use electronic surveys to learn from its customers (boat owners and crews) what it is they want in racing and parties? This data shall be used in formulating the racing program for the sailors used by the clubs running open races. Owners and crews are all customers of racing.

 

3. The existing offshore sail racing fleet shall be called the Gran Prix Fleet. The survey responses shall determine their racing schedule and formats for 2017.

 

A new fleet is to be created - the Grand Touring Fleet. They will compete in single races on Saturdays only. This fleet shall be made up of boats new to LA3 racing. Seminars shall be held at clubs throughout the spring inviting the beer can race series boats to attend and each club's remaining sailboat owners who haven't raced previously. The seminars will start with the basics: rules, handicaps, safety regulations, etc., providing the reading materials that are necessary for these people to begin their racing careers. Later seminars shall cover boat preparation, crew preparation, etc. Boats looking to give sailboat racing in the Grand Touring Fleet a try shall be assigned an experienced mentor.

 

Races are expected to be simple and easy. The course will be possibly a large triangle or a course to a government buoy and back, not necessarily windward-leeward, with a 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hour time target. The Grand Touring Fleet will work to simplify entry for first year racers: most likely not requiring official handicap certificates and instead have a provisional handicap provided by a subcommittee, not requiring membership in a yacht club for two years, or US Sailing for one year, or the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation for one year. The LA3AGC is to make it simple: enter, show up to a starting line, and return to a finish line to get a shot at a trophy.

 

Sail limitations shall apply in the Grand Touring Fleet: a maximum purchase of two new sails per year, and it is likely there shall be sail material limitations as well. Offerings of spinnaker and Jib and Main racing sections will be made available.

 

LMSRF Commodore Gordon Julius, III, said, "A new era is here that has been long overdue. We thank all who provided the input we have received from so many sources to design this new A3RGC business plan. In two of our other Areas, Area II (Manitowoc, Wisconsin to Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin) and Area V (Point Betsie, Michigan to Mackinac Island, Michigan), they have run similar programs for the past four years successfully. This is a tested plan. We look forward to renewed growth in the most populated region of our great lake, Lake Michigan."

Little said about handicap racing. Is it dead?

 

I'm not qualified to conclude that, but the NOODs and the Verve regattas are easily the most popular buoy race events, and they both draw more OD than handicap. The Mac, QC, Waukegan, TriState and A3/other distance races are a lot healthier. Participation in other A3 racing is...well it's hard to see what keeps them going.

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FWIW

LMSRF Area III Implements Plan to Grow

Offshore Sailboat Racing in Southern Lake Michigan

 

The Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation Area III Steering Committee was disbanded Thursday, October 6, 2016, after seeing a 40% decrease in sailboat racing participation in the past 15 years. After hearing feedback from member Yacht Clubs, racers, and race committees who run the races that the reduced participation is causing costs to escalate for those who continue racing, consideration of some races being eliminated due to costs, the only solution is to grow participation.

 

This led to the creation of a new committee of the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation (LMSRF), the LMSRF Area III Racing Growth Committee (A3RGC). The A3RGCs membership is made up of the LMSRF member yacht clubs between St. Joseph, Michigan through Indiana up to Winthrop Harbor, Illinois.

 

This new committees focus is on growth that comes in three pillars:

 

1. Offshore One Design Fleets Subcommittee shall be focused on assuring they have fleet parties annually throughout the year. Secondly, annually in February the leaders of all Offshore One Design Fleets shall have dinner together, then call all of their Fleets boat owners from every harbor in LMSRF Area III. They shall have set questions and record what it will take to get these boats out to the starting line regularly in 2017. This information shall be fed back into the A3RGC to be used to make changes to respond to all customer's needs.

 

2. The A3RGC shall use electronic surveys to learn from its customers (boat owners and crews) what it is they want in racing and parties? This data shall be used in formulating the racing program for the sailors used by the clubs running open races. Owners and crews are all customers of racing.

 

3. The existing offshore sail racing fleet shall be called the Gran Prix Fleet. The survey responses shall determine their racing schedule and formats for 2017.

 

A new fleet is to be created - the Grand Touring Fleet. They will compete in single races on Saturdays only. This fleet shall be made up of boats new to LA3 racing. Seminars shall be held at clubs throughout the spring inviting the beer can race series boats to attend and each club's remaining sailboat owners who haven't raced previously. The seminars will start with the basics: rules, handicaps, safety regulations, etc., providing the reading materials that are necessary for these people to begin their racing careers. Later seminars shall cover boat preparation, crew preparation, etc. Boats looking to give sailboat racing in the Grand Touring Fleet a try shall be assigned an experienced mentor.

 

Races are expected to be simple and easy. The course will be possibly a large triangle or a course to a government buoy and back, not necessarily windward-leeward, with a 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hour time target. The Grand Touring Fleet will work to simplify entry for first year racers: most likely not requiring official handicap certificates and instead have a provisional handicap provided by a subcommittee, not requiring membership in a yacht club for two years, or US Sailing for one year, or the Lake Michigan Sail Racing Federation for one year. The LA3AGC is to make it simple: enter, show up to a starting line, and return to a finish line to get a shot at a trophy.

 

Sail limitations shall apply in the Grand Touring Fleet: a maximum purchase of two new sails per year, and it is likely there shall be sail material limitations as well. Offerings of spinnaker and Jib and Main racing sections will be made available.

 

LMSRF Commodore Gordon Julius, III, said, "A new era is here that has been long overdue. We thank all who provided the input we have received from so many sources to design this new A3RGC business plan. In two of our other Areas, Area II (Manitowoc, Wisconsin to Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin) and Area V (Point Betsie, Michigan to Mackinac Island, Michigan), they have run similar programs for the past four years successfully. This is a tested plan. We look forward to renewed growth in the most populated region of our great lake, Lake Michigan."

Little said about handicap racing. Is it dead?

 

I'm not qualified to conclude that, but the NOODs and the Verve regattas are easily the most popular buoy race events, and they both draw more OD than handicap. The Mac and A3/other distance races are a lot healthier. Participation in other A3 racing is...well it's hard to see what keeps many of them going at all.

post-301-0-74689200-1476200142_thumb.jpg

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Handicap racing is the biggest growth market and is heavily part of the new plan.

 

There are only so many T10s, J/105s, B36.7's etc. between St. Joe and the Wisconsin border. The plan for these includes surveys and actual real life phone calls to get them out more (digital marketing only goes so far).

 

Mailing lists are to be acquired of all harbors between St. Joe and the Wisconsin border of all sailboats. Thousands of those sailboats we all see sitting on their moorings when we head out to race on the weekends. It is a multi-stage marketing plan to get more of these boats out - mailer with invitation to an evening at host clubs to hear about Grand Touring racing, invitation back to learn more about crew prep, boat prep, race strategies, etc. and once committed to trying racing for the first time (not mixed with the existing Gran Prix fleet), a Mentor will be assigned to these boats to help them put it all together and make it around a course.

 

For handicap racing in the Gran Prix fleet, surveys will be done to learn how to get boats that disappeared to come back, and those that are still here, how to get them out more frequently. Customer driven decisions will be made going forward.

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Handicap racing is the biggest growth market and is heavily part of the new plan.

 

There are only so many T10s, J/105s, B36.7's etc. between St. Joe and the Wisconsin border. The plan for these includes surveys and actual real life phone calls to get them out more (digital marketing only goes so far).

 

Mailing lists are to be acquired of all harbors between St. Joe and the Wisconsin border of all sailboats. Thousands of those sailboats we all see sitting on their moorings when we head out to race on the weekends. It is a multi-stage marketing plan to get more of these boats out - mailer with invitation to an evening at host clubs to hear about Grand Touring racing, invitation back to learn more about crew prep, boat prep, race strategies, etc. and once committed to trying racing for the first time (not mixed with the existing Gran Prix fleet), a Mentor will be assigned to these boats to help them put it all together and make it around a course.

 

For handicap racing in the Gran Prix fleet, surveys will be done to learn how to get boats that disappeared to come back, and those that are still here, how to get them out more frequently. Customer driven decisions will be made going forward.

 

Good Luck

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

 

I like this approach. Racers already race. What Glenn appears to be doing is growing the sport by getting as many people into racing as possible.

 

I don't know you personally, but if anyone gives you shit, tell them to fuck off. I constantly see you trying to expand the sport while many others do nothing but complain. Good job.

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

 

I like this approach. Racers already race. What Glenn appears to be doing is growing the sport by getting as many people into racing as possible.

 

I don't know you personally, but if anyone gives you shit, tell them to fuck off. I

constantly see you trying to expand the sport while many others do nothing but complain. Good job.

 

 

Why, thank you.

 

Another critical piece will be to include Crew in future surveys (of course this requires accumulating the crew's email addresses - LMSRF has a policy in place that email addresses are only used by the business of LMSRF and not sold or allowed to be used by others.). Let me give a thought - the owners lover 3/4 mile leg windward/leeward races. Possibly, the crews hate 3/4 mile leg windward/leeward races. We know boats are constantly looking for and bringing in new crew, is it because these courses chew crew up and spit them out? Maybe crew would be interested in 3 or 4 mile legs with a chance to socialize and have a breather? Maybe skippers and crews are at odds, but the crews don't speak up (other than to walk away)?

 

It will be critical to make sure everyone is involved in the decisions in the future. We must learn what all customers are seeking, and deliver what it is they want (obviously meeting what the largest block of votes wants).

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

 

I like this approach. Racers already race. What Glenn appears to be doing is growing the sport by getting as many people into racing as possible.

 

I don't know you personally, but if anyone gives you shit, tell them to fuck off. I constantly see you trying to expand the sport while many others do nothing but complain. Good job.

 

I have to agree!

 

When I first read the statement from LMSRF, I was admittedly confused, and I think a lot of people were/are (not to point fingers or gripe, but I don't think the ideas came across as clearly as the authors intended, which happens a ton when you try to edit your own statement, I get it!). However, I think this approach is a good start. Let's face it, those of us that race, we know we are going to get out there regardless of who is running our races, and when. Fleets make those calls, and we are on the line. But if I'm new to racing, new to my boat, didn't grow up here, I might not know, and it's our responsibility as people passionate about the sport to encourage these people to get out on the water, and maybe critically, not intimidate them!

 

In Milwaukee we had Friday night Mast Racing, kind of a similar concept where people new to the sport, or their boats, or racing could go out in a conducive environment, have fun, and work on the craft of sailing. People love it! I'm interested to know more about the mentoring aspect as well, I think this is something many of us One Design sailors are lucky to have in a very organic manner (we all want our fleets to get better, and everyone to be competitive), how would it work in this atmosphere? I actually think this could be a critical point of this programs success.

 

Well done Glenn!

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

 

I like this approach. Racers already race. What Glenn appears to be doing is growing the sport by getting as many people into racing as possible.

 

I don't know you personally, but if anyone gives you shit, tell them to fuck off. I

constantly see you trying to expand the sport while many others do nothing but complain. Good job.

 

Why, thank you.

 

Another critical piece will be to include Crew in future surveys (of course this requires accumulating the crew's email addresses - LMSRF has a policy in place that email addresses are only used by the business of LMSRF and not sold or allowed to be used by others.). Let me give a thought - the owners lover 3/4 mile leg windward/leeward races. Possibly, the crews hate 3/4 mile leg windward/leeward races. We know boats are constantly looking for and bringing in new crew, is it because these courses chew crew up and spit them out? Maybe crew would be interested in 3 or 4 mile legs with a chance to socialize and have a breather? Maybe skippers and crews are at odds, but the crews don't speak up (other than to walk away)?

 

It will be critical to make sure everyone is involved in the decisions in the future. We must learn what all customers are seeking, and deliver what it is they want (obviously meeting what the largest block of votes wants).

 

I was with you up to this point. Maybe most crew would prefer to sit and home and jerk off, why should I care?

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I think the simple fact that crew should be surveyed is a good starter, not just the owners. Owners need crew, crew, that want rides, need owners.

 

Oh, and J111. ^_^

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

 

 

 

You need to find sailors who are not affiliated with a yacht club as well. As we all know, membership in most clubs has been declining or at best staying steady. Many boat owners seem to feel that club membership is optional for a number of reasons including; costs of dues, lack of services offered by many clubs and the costs of using the clubs. Years ago the MORF fleet offered an option for those not part of a normal club. I think some thought into offering a cheap alternative to a traditional yacht club needs to be examined.

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

 

I like this approach. Racers already race. What Glenn appears to be doing is growing the sport by getting as many people into racing as possible.

 

I don't know you personally, but if anyone gives you shit, tell them to fuck off. I

constantly see you trying to expand the sport while many others do nothing but complain. Good job.

 

Why, thank you.

 

Another critical piece will be to include Crew in future surveys (of course this requires accumulating the crew's email addresses - LMSRF has a policy in place that email addresses are only used by the business of LMSRF and not sold or allowed to be used by others.). Let me give a thought - the owners lover 3/4 mile leg windward/leeward races. Possibly, the crews hate 3/4 mile leg windward/leeward races. We know boats are constantly looking for and bringing in new crew, is it because these courses chew crew up and spit them out? Maybe crew would be interested in 3 or 4 mile legs with a chance to socialize and have a breather? Maybe skippers and crews are at odds, but the crews don't speak up (other than to walk away)?

 

It will be critical to make sure everyone is involved in the decisions in the future. We must learn what all customers are seeking, and deliver what it is they want (obviously meeting what the largest block of votes wants).

 

I was with you up to this point. Maybe most crew would prefer to sit and home and jerk off, why should I care?

 

 

The most common complaint boats have (word of mouth, not a survey of all) is they can't find crew. I put up a theory of why turnover is high, and that is all. We need to build a community. Crew are a key part of the community. While the owners go online to sign up for races, they read the barrage of information on NORs and SIs, and everything else, the few lines about a "party" at a club afterwards gets lost in the volume. An email blast should go out to all participants (owners and crews) weekly informing them of the social aspect after racing. Learning what crew want is an important part, regardless what the like to watch, other than SA, on their computers! Why should we only talk to 1 (the owner) out of 4 to 10 people on the boats?

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Isn't economics and quality of racing the biggest factors in fleet reductions? The trend has moved to smaller OD boats for better racing with fewer sandwiches to buy and no PHRF politics. This is why the J/70s are so popular = affordable, OD racing.

 

When I first started racing in Chicago in 2001 we had 50-60 boats out on the Area III race circle every weekend, even for the none Boat of the Year races. There was 6 SC70s,10-12 Farr 40s, 15-20 J/105s, 25-30 T-10s, plus PHRFs 1-5. These days I've heard there is less than 1/4 of that, although I haven't bothered to get out of bed on a Saturday morning to see it first hand...

 

I could be WAY off, but economics and rating games seem to be the biggest factors driving the fleets way from Area III...

For too long we have had paralysis by analysis. What single factor has been missing? S-a-l-e-s.

 

No one (across the entire U.S. too) is selling sailboat racing. Pick up a sales book, a marketing book, none of these are occurring. How do thousands of boats in the harbors just sit there week in and week out. How do they even have a clue that they can come out and play with the racing crowd? Of course it isn't for everybody, but even 50 boats or 100 boats new to racing than sit back and just expect new customers to walk up and say, "Hi!"

 

And taking a novice and throwing them to the wolves on the A3 course just doesn't make a lot of sense. Whereby using the attitude of "Bring whatchya got" in the way of sails and a boat, have single race on Saturdays only, go on a long reach out to a government mark and back for 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hours, no US Sailing dues, no yacht club membership requirement 1st year, no LMSRF membership requirement 1st year, and have a handicap assigned by the A3 RGC at no cost, makes it as easy as enter online with the regular race entry fee, cross a starting line, round a mark or two, cross a finish line and possibly get a trophy. It makes it as easy as possible for someone who owns a boat and never raced before to get experience.

 

Then the clubs at the end of the season get to market to these new racers and offer their membership to them.

 

 

 

You need to find sailors who are not affiliated with a yacht club as well. As we all know, membership in most clubs has been declining or at best staying steady. Many boat owners seem to feel that club membership is optional for a number of reasons including; costs of dues, lack of services offered by many clubs and the costs of using the clubs. Years ago the MORF fleet offered an option for those not part of a normal club. I think some thought into offering a cheap alternative to a traditional yacht club needs to be examined.

 

 

Absolutely correct. MORF is what is called a "paper club" who operates just like a brick and mortar club. Those who choose to join a club at the end of the year and continue their racing experience will get a sheet of the prices, and amenities of all clubs in A3, and MORF will be on that list. This must be a "win" for everyone.

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Glenn - Good luck with this. And please report back when you have done the survey - I for one is curious to see how the opinions have changed since last time the two of us did the last one

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Glenn,

 

I'd like to correct your statement that MORF is just a "paper club". MORF runs more than 35 races each season, as well as participating in Wednesday nights with Columbia and Chicago YC. Some of us go off to national regattas and do pretty well there. Not having brick or mortar or restaurants to deal with gives us the ability to concentrate on things important, like introducing people to the joys of racing.

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Chicago has the greatest sailing POTENTIAL in the world. Boats everywhere, millions of people to draw from, multiple clubs/harbors, a good amount of money, exposure galore - I look forward to watching the transformation into a model for sailing everywhere. Culture is the hardest thing to change, and the easiest thing to lose. Everybody buy in.

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Chicago has the greatest sailing POTENTIAL in the world. Boats everywhere, millions of people to draw from, multiple clubs/harbors, a good amount of money, exposure galore - I look forward to watching the transformation into a model for sailing everywhere. Culture is the hardest thing to change, and the easiest thing to lose. Everybody buy in.

Can I have some of the stuff you are smoking?

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Glenn,

 

I'd like to correct your statement that MORF is just a "paper club". MORF runs more than 35 races each season, as well as participating in Wednesday nights with Columbia and Chicago YC. Some of us go off to national regattas and do pretty well there. Not having brick or mortar or restaurants to deal with gives us the ability to concentrate on things important, like introducing people to the joys of racing.

In the U.S. there are 1800 yacht clubs. 900 are brick and mortar, and commonly "in the trade," the remainder are called "paper clubs." So many paper clubs are introducing people to sailing. It is not an insult at all, it is a matter of fact. It is a description of what they are. They exist on paper (and a website). They meet at restaurants and bars, they hold their own "club races" and with MORF they also hold an open regatta called the "MORF Open" This is no different than any other club in Chicago that holds races for their own members, and then holds an "open" in Area 3. Yes, MORF is doing a fantastic job of running tons of races and has for eons. Thank you MORF. It's a great organization.

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Chicago has the greatest sailing POTENTIAL in the world. Boats everywhere, millions of people to draw from, multiple clubs/harbors, a good amount of money, exposure galore - I look forward to watching the transformation into a model for sailing everywhere. Culture is the hardest thing to change, and the easiest thing to lose. Everybody buy in.

Can I have some of the stuff you are smoking?

 

There are 118,000 millionaires just within the City limits. That doesn't include all of the monster homes in the North Shore or other suburbs around Chicago. Sailing has been stuck by Paralysis by Analysis for way too long. We must "Sell" sailing to the unwashed. The flip side to this is, we don't have Coca-Cola's marketing and sales budget for the year, but we do need to start spending on these tasks and gain new customers. And we know most of our fellow racers are not millionaires.

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Chicago has the greatest sailing POTENTIAL in the world. Boats everywhere, millions of people to draw from, multiple clubs/harbors, a good amount of money, exposure galore - I look forward to watching the transformation into a model for sailing everywhere. Culture is the hardest thing to change, and the easiest thing to lose. Everybody buy in.

Can I have some of the stuff you are smoking?

 

Cynicism will get us no where. If we don't believe in it, then what's the point?

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Glenn has actively and tirelessly promoted sailing around the Chicago area for many, many years. IME there are many others in the Chicago sailing world who have also worked very hard to promote sailing, but they keep trying to recreate variations on sailing/clubs in the 70's using the same approaches that worked when they were kids/young adults. It's no surprise at all that hasn't worked, participation has continued to decline. It's a whole different world today, the old model isn't viable anymore.

 

In any event, I hope Area 3 really does have a new MO, and they're successful. Demographics (few next gen owners) are still an issue, but starting with existing boats and owners/crews makes sense.

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Being one of those next gen owners, I worry that any poll of existing boat owners is going to result in a majority "we are all too old to do any of the fun, competitive shit any more so if you want us to come out, change all of the races to boring booze cruises."

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Being one of those next gen owners, I worry that any poll of existing boat owners is going to result in a majority "we are all too old to do any of the fun, competitive shit any more so if you want us to come out, change all of the races to boring booze cruises."

 

That's an interesting perspective. I tend to think the opposite, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm right. My theory is that there are all these sailboat owners (or potential owners) who are somewhat intimidated by the thought of a starting line and mark roundings with 20 other boats. So the boring booze cruises introduce them to "sailing-lite" where they can get a taste of competition. If they want to move up the chain into faster more competitive classes and events, they're free to do so. If you're lucky, 1 out of 4 will do so.

 

Glenn, correct me if I'm wrong, but your approach is to significantly participation in the boring booze cruises so that (if my completely unscientific stats are accurate), the number of 25%'ers who want to move into competitive racing will also increase.

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Quick question than you can return to your regularly scheduled programming... is there a "go to" yard/shop Area III racers use for bottom prep? Like the equivalent of a Waterline Systems in Rhode Island? A place that you would send something like a 105 or 109 to for stripping, fairing (within class rules) and new bottom paint?

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Quick question than you can return to your regularly scheduled programming... is there a "go to" yard/shop Area III racers use for bottom prep? Like the equivalent of a Waterline Systems in Rhode Island? A place that you would send something like a 105 or 109 to for stripping, fairing (within class rules) and new bottom paint?

 

Ritchie Geoghan's work is equivalent to Waterline.

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Being one of those next gen owners, I worry that any poll of existing boat owners is going to result in a majority "we are all too old to do any of the fun, competitive shit any more so if you want us to come out, change all of the races to boring booze cruises."

 

That's an interesting perspective. I tend to think the opposite, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm right. My theory is that there are all these sailboat owners (or potential owners) who are somewhat intimidated by the thought of a starting line and mark roundings with 20 other boats. So the boring booze cruises introduce them to "sailing-lite" where they can get a taste of competition. If they want to move up the chain into faster more competitive classes and events, they're free to do so. If you're lucky, 1 out of 4 will do so.

 

Glenn, correct me if I'm wrong, but your approach is to significantly participation in the boring booze cruises so that (if my completely unscientific stats are accurate), the number of 25%'ers who want to move into competitive racing will also increase.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were cross-overs in both directions - some Grand Touring moving to Gran Prix, Gran Prix moving to Grand Touring. Growth is key, customer satisfaction is more key.

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Being one of those next gen owners, I worry that any poll of existing boat owners is going to result in a majority "we are all too old to do any of the fun, competitive shit any more so if you want us to come out, change all of the races to boring booze cruises."

 

In the old days, many racers were manufacturers (hands on mechanically). As manufacturing has declined, many racers today are coming out of the financial services industry (less mechanically inclined). Age-wise there has been a shift and owners are growing older.

 

This is not a "Chicago phenomenon" it is countrywide. Read the first article on "beer and segregation" - http://www.lmsrf.org/lmsrf/images/stories/newsletters/2012_10_newsletter.pdf We are the deplorables when it comes to moving young sailors into adult sailing. We have no mechanism to make it occur. As a result, 20% of the crew on Grand Touring boats shall be under the age of 22 and required to have a crew function, not carried as rail meat. We are smashing the age segregation and attempting to cultivate a younger audience. Boats may find these crew in their junior, high school or collegiate programs mostly right at their own club. The end of segregation is near.

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Quick question than you can return to your regularly scheduled programming... is there a "go to" yard/shop Area III racers use for bottom prep? Like the equivalent of a Waterline Systems in Rhode Island? A place that you would send something like a 105 or 109 to for stripping, fairing (within class rules) and new bottom paint?

Ritchie Geoghan's work is equivalent to Waterline.

 

 

For what it's worth, several years ago I looked into redoing the bottom on a J24 and got a quote from Torreson's over in Muskegon. It was pretty good, a fair bit less than Waterline System's standard quote for J24 bottom rebuild. We never did do the work, we sold the boat.

 

I had taken a bog boat over there for some mid-season keel work the year before and they did a knock out job for about 1/3rd what the owner was thinking it was going to cost.

 

I would consider getting a quote from them.

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Being one of those next gen owners, I worry that any poll of existing boat owners is going to result in a majority "we are all too old to do any of the fun, competitive shit any more so if you want us to come out, change all of the races to boring booze cruises."

 

That's an interesting perspective. I tend to think the opposite, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm right. My theory is that there are all these sailboat owners (or potential owners) who are somewhat intimidated by the thought of a starting line and mark roundings with 20 other boats. So the boring booze cruises introduce them to "sailing-lite" where they can get a taste of competition. If they want to move up the chain into faster more competitive classes and events, they're free to do so. If you're lucky, 1 out of 4 will do so.

 

Glenn, correct me if I'm wrong, but your approach is to significantly participation in the boring booze cruises so that (if my completely unscientific stats are accurate), the number of 25%'ers who want to move into competitive racing will also increase.

 

 

IMO, the silly point to point races are more fun for mismatched PHRF boats and W/L are more fun for OD. I'll do W/L's in PHRF, but only because I'm a glutton for punishment, but the rules of tactics and strategy are completely different from OD racing making it a little futile. W/Ls are the best form of racing, I'd just choose to not do it on my own boat if it's gonna be a PHRF matchup. Point to Points give the opportunity to "let PHRF happen" between disparate boats. Not sure how that will translate for the others that have their boats sitting on the dock, but maybe if enough get serious you could have better class splits to have more competetive/interesting W/Ls for PHRF boats.

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Being one of those next gen owners, I worry that any poll of existing boat owners is going to result in a majority "we are all too old to do any of the fun, competitive shit any more so if you want us to come out, change all of the races to boring booze cruises."

 

That's an interesting perspective. I tend to think the opposite, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm right. My theory is that there are all these sailboat owners (or potential owners) who are somewhat intimidated by the thought of a starting line and mark roundings with 20 other boats. So the boring booze cruises introduce them to "sailing-lite" where they can get a taste of competition. If they want to move up the chain into faster more competitive classes and events, they're free to do so. If you're lucky, 1 out of 4 will do so.

 

Glenn, correct me if I'm wrong, but your approach is to significantly participation in the boring booze cruises so that (if my completely unscientific stats are accurate), the number of 25%'ers who want to move into competitive racing will also increase.

 

 

IMO, the silly point to point races are more fun for mismatched PHRF boats and W/L are more fun for OD. I'll do W/L's in PHRF, but only because I'm a glutton for punishment, but the rules of tactics and strategy are completely different from OD racing making it a little futile. W/Ls are the best form of racing, I'd just choose to not do it on my own boat if it's gonna be a PHRF matchup. Point to Points give the opportunity to "let PHRF happen" between disparate boats. Not sure how that will translate for the others that have their boats sitting on the dock, but maybe if enough get serious you could have better class splits to have more competetive/interesting W/Ls for PHRF boats.

 

 

The ODs had WL in mind when the boats were designed in layout of deck and sail recovery. The PHRF type boats with winch farms really eat crew alive keeping up on a WL course. As a result, A3 has been implementing long distance races throughout the season to respond to those PHRF boats who struggle in the WL environment.

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Quick question than you can return to your regularly scheduled programming... is there a "go to" yard/shop Area III racers use for bottom prep? Like the equivalent of a Waterline Systems in Rhode Island? A place that you would send something like a 105 or 109 to for stripping, fairing (within class rules) and new bottom paint?

 

 

MANITOWOC MARINA CAN DO ALL THAT FOR YOU

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Richie is awesome and should be someone you should go to if you are in Chicago, he is independent so you can be in any Chicago Yard and he can work on the boat. Torresen in Waukegan IL has a good reputation as does Eldeans in Holland MI. Crowley's on the south side of Chicago is hit or miss, I know people who had great work done, I've also seen horror stories as well though they will make it right if it does go wrong. With that said your mileage may vary. Call them up, meet them and go with who you work best with.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

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Richie is awesome and should be someone you should go to if you are in Chicago, he is independent so you can be in any Chicago Yard and he can work on the boat. Torresen in Waukegan IL has a good reputation as does Eldeans in Holland MI. Crowley's on the south side of Chicago is hit or miss, I know people who had great work done, I've also seen horror stories as well though they will make it right if it does go wrong. With that said your mileage may vary. Call them up, meet them and go with who you work best with.

Torresen is in Muskegon, MI. Larsen Marine is in Waukegan.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

Which is why we are using the survey information from the Milwaukee Grand Touring like fleet who wanted races in the 2-1/2 to 3-1/2 hour range. It contemplates exactly what you wrote.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

 

I don't know how to make this much shorter and still get enough sailing in to make it worthwhile. Consider the following timetable, for someone who doesn't necessarily live downtown:

 

8:00 Leave home

9:00 Arrive dock/boat

9:45 Leave dock

10:30 Arrive SA

11:00 Start race #1

12:30 Finish race #1

13:00 Start race #2

14:30 Finish race #2

15:15 Return to dock

14:00 Leave boat

16:00 Arrive home

 

That's an 8 hour day if you want to get in two 90 minute races (8 miles, W/L, VMG ~ 5.5kts). It also assumes not much delay in starting race #2, and starting race #1 on time.

In all my time racing in A3, I don't think we ever had a shorter race day than 8+ hrs, if you wanted to get at least as much sailing time in as travel (land & water) and dock time. I won't re-hash the various arguments made about earlier start times or starting closer to shore.

 

 

 

 

.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

 

I don't know how to make this much shorter and still get enough sailing in to make it worthwhile. Consider the following timetable, for someone who doesn't necessarily live downtown:

 

8:00 Leave home

9:00 Arrive dock/boat

9:45 Leave dock

10:30 Arrive SA

11:00 Start race #1

12:30 Finish race #1

13:00 Start race #2

14:30 Finish race #2

15:15 Return to dock

15:30 Secure sails, lines, etc., cocktails/beer, post mortem?

17:30 Leave boat

18:30 Arrive home

 

That's an 8 hour day if you want to get in two 90 minute races (8 miles, W/L, VMG ~ 5.5kts). It also assumes not much delay in starting race #2, and starting race #1 on time.

In all my time racing in A3, I don't think we ever had a shorter race day than 8+ hrs, if you wanted to get at least as much sailing time in as travel (land & water) and dock time. I won't re-hash the various arguments made about earlier start times or starting closer to shore.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

I don't know how to make this much shorter and still get enough sailing in to make it worthwhile. Consider the following timetable, for someone who doesn't necessarily live downtown:

 

8:00 Leave home

9:00 Arrive dock/boat

9:45 Leave dock

10:30 Arrive SA

11:00 Start race #1

12:30 Finish race #1

13:00 Start race #2

14:30 Finish race #2

15:15 Return to dock

15:30 Secure sails, lines, etc., cocktails/beer, post mortem?

17:30 Leave boat

18:30 Arrive home

 

That's an 8 hour day if you want to get in two 90 minute races (8 miles, W/L, VMG ~ 5.5kts). It also assumes not much delay in starting race #2, and starting race #1 on time.

In all my time racing in A3, I don't think we ever had a shorter race day than 8+ hrs, if you wanted to get at least as much sailing time in as travel (land & water) and dock time. I won't re-hash the various arguments made about earlier start times or starting closer to shore.

 

Actually, I screwed up my initial post:

 

Should be

 

15:15 Return to dock

16:00 Leave boat

17:00 Arrive home

 

For a nine hour day. I expect a fair bit of de-brief to happen on the 45min ride back to shore. Obviously the more time you spend on the boat drinking, chatting etc. after clean-up, the longer the day.

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Richie is awesome and should be someone you should go to if you are in Chicago, he is independent so you can be in any Chicago Yard and he can work on the boat. Torresen in Waukegan IL has a good reputation as does Eldeans in Holland MI. Crowley's on the south side of Chicago is hit or miss, I know people who had great work done, I've also seen horror stories as well though they will make it right if it does go wrong. With that said your mileage may vary. Call them up, meet them and go with who you work best with.

Torresen is in Muskegon, MI. Larsen Marine is in Waukegan.

Thanks, that's what I get for posting on the train on the way home. Never used Torresen or Larsen, just delevered boats from each, but they both have good reputations.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

I don't know how to make this much shorter and still get enough sailing in to make it worthwhile. Consider the following timetable, for someone who doesn't necessarily live downtown:

 

8:00 Leave home

9:00 Arrive dock/boat

9:45 Leave dock

10:30 Arrive SA

11:00 Start race #1

12:30 Finish race #1

13:00 Start race #2

14:30 Finish race #2

15:15 Return to dock

15:30 Secure sails, lines, etc., cocktails/beer, post mortem?

17:30 Leave boat

18:30 Arrive home

 

That's an 8 hour day if you want to get in two 90 minute races (8 miles, W/L, VMG ~ 5.5kts). It also assumes not much delay in starting race #2, and starting race #1 on time.

In all my time racing in A3, I don't think we ever had a shorter race day than 8+ hrs, if you wanted to get at least as much sailing time in as travel (land & water) and dock time. I won't re-hash the various arguments made about earlier start times or starting closer to shore.

 

Actually, I screwed up my initial post:

 

Should be

 

15:15 Return to dock

16:00 Leave boat

17:00 Arrive home

 

For a nine hour day. I expect a fair bit of de-brief to happen on the 45min ride back to shore. Obviously the more time you spend on the boat drinking, chatting etc. after clean-up, the longer the day.

 

 

We all know where we can eliminate some of the time, have enough critical mass to have one course located more to the South 1/2 of Chicago, and another course on the North 1/2 of Chicago and have so many boats out there everyone is happy with the participation in both halves! This would cut down the transit time out and back to the course.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

I don't know how to make this much shorter and still get enough sailing in to make it worthwhile. Consider the following timetable, for someone who doesn't necessarily live downtown:

 

8:00 Leave home

9:00 Arrive dock/boat

9:45 Leave dock

10:30 Arrive SA

11:00 Start race #1

12:30 Finish race #1

13:00 Start race #2

14:30 Finish race #2

15:15 Return to dock

15:30 Secure sails, lines, etc., cocktails/beer, post mortem?

17:30 Leave boat

18:30 Arrive home

 

That's an 8 hour day if you want to get in two 90 minute races (8 miles, W/L, VMG ~ 5.5kts). It also assumes not much delay in starting race #2, and starting race #1 on time.

In all my time racing in A3, I don't think we ever had a shorter race day than 8+ hrs, if you wanted to get at least as much sailing time in as travel (land & water) and dock time. I won't re-hash the various arguments made about earlier start times or starting closer to shore.

Actually, I screwed up my initial post:

 

Should be

 

15:15 Return to dock

16:00 Leave boat

17:00 Arrive home

 

For a nine hour day. I expect a fair bit of de-brief to happen on the 45min ride back to shore. Obviously the more time you spend on the boat drinking, chatting etc. after clean-up, the longer the day.

I agree. I don't know what the answer is to reduce the time commitment, as I had to walk away from Area 3 racing six years ago as I couldn't do this most weekends, Saturday and Sunday. Life and career has gotten in the way. Do I wish I still could? Yes, but life and career need to be first right now, otherwise I'm never going to own a boat in Chicago.

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I don't think you can reduce the time commit in a given day. It's basically 8-5pm door to door, plain and simply as outlined above.

That's why I don't race EVERY Saturday and Sunday as I used to for many years. Too many other fun things to do in this great city.

I think the solution is simple, fewer, high lever, higher attended events...

 

Big May Event TBD

NOOD (June)

Verve (August)

Big September Event TBD

 

July is shot with the Mac(s)....

 

5 BIG can weekends a summer would be great MAYBE could even all be 3 day events...

 

Too many events creates saturation and lack of attendance.

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Glen- glad you are shaking things up, but don't forgot the time aspect. We need to change the time commitment racing requires. As young people today are used to spending a little bit of time on lots of things, and therefore has a bunch of little commitments they have to meet each weekend. It's now a huge deal for anyone younger to carve out 8-10 hours in one chunk and fully commit it to sailing/racing. I don't know what the answer is to this, but keep it in mind.

I don't know how to make this much shorter and still get enough sailing in to make it worthwhile. Consider the following timetable, for someone who doesn't necessarily live downtown:

 

8:00 Leave home

9:00 Arrive dock/boat

9:45 Leave dock

10:30 Arrive SA

11:00 Start race #1

12:30 Finish race #1

13:00 Start race #2

14:30 Finish race #2

15:15 Return to dock

15:30 Secure sails, lines, etc., cocktails/beer, post mortem?

17:30 Leave boat

18:30 Arrive home

 

That's an 8 hour day if you want to get in two 90 minute races (8 miles, W/L, VMG ~ 5.5kts). It also assumes not much delay in starting race #2, and starting race #1 on time.

In all my time racing in A3, I don't think we ever had a shorter race day than 8+ hrs, if you wanted to get at least as much sailing time in as travel (land & water) and dock time. I won't re-hash the various arguments made about earlier start times or starting closer to shore.

Actually, I screwed up my initial post:

 

Should be

 

15:15 Return to dock

16:00 Leave boat

17:00 Arrive home

 

For a nine hour day. I expect a fair bit of de-brief to happen on the 45min ride back to shore. Obviously the more time you spend on the boat drinking, chatting etc. after clean-up, the longer the day.

I agree. I don't know what the answer is to reduce the time commitment, as I had to walk away from Area 3 racing six years ago as I couldn't do this most weekends, Saturday and Sunday. Life and career has gotten in the way. Do I wish I still could? Yes, but life and career need to be first right now, otherwise I'm never going to own a boat in Chicago.

 

 

 

You forgot one big thing about Chicago. The cost of being a crew has become pretty expensive. Each boat owner gets parking passes to cover his parking costs while at the boat.(Although his mooring fees continue to go up.) The rest of us are left paying anywhere from $15 to $30 per day just to park our cars at the Chicago harbors. That is in addition to the cost of gas, etc for those of us driving in from the suburbs. Street parking is nonexistent near the harbors as well. How do you get someone just out of college with a low paying job or someone with a young family to pay that much to crew on a boat? Taxis and Uber aren't cheap either and try to find one at one of the harbors. I know that my wife and I don't go into Chicago much any more because just parking costs as much as bringing another person to dinner.

 

Don't mention traffic when there is a Cubs game or anther event going on.

 

If you want more boats on the race courses you need more people on the boats. Unless the costs of putting crew on the boats becomes reasonable you will have a hard time getting more boats out there. How about setting up some parking areas which cheap parking and shuttles to the different harbors? That may attract more people to show up a crew.

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Actually, I screwed up my initial post:

 

Should be

 

15:15 Return to dock

16:00 Leave boat

17:00 Arrive home

 

For a nine hour day. I expect a fair bit of de-brief to happen on the 45min ride back to shore. Obviously the more time you spend on the boat drinking, chatting etc. after clean-up, the longer the day.

I agree. I don't know what the answer is to reduce the time commitment, as I had to walk away from Area 3 racing six years ago as I couldn't do this most weekends, Saturday and Sunday. Life and career has gotten in the way. Do I wish I still could? Yes, but life and career need to be first right now, otherwise I'm never going to own a boat in Chicago.

 

 

 

You forgot one big thing about Chicago. The cost of being a crew has become pretty expensive. Each boat owner gets parking passes to cover his parking costs while at the boat.(Although his mooring fees continue to go up.) The rest of us are left paying anywhere from $15 to $30 per day just to park our cars at the Chicago harbors. That is in addition to the cost of gas, etc for those of us driving in from the suburbs. Street parking is nonexistent near the harbors as well. How do you get someone just out of college with a low paying job or someone with a young family to pay that much to crew on a boat? Taxis and Uber aren't cheap either and try to find one at one of the harbors. I know that my wife and I don't go into Chicago much any more because just parking costs as much as bringing another person to dinner.

 

Don't mention traffic when there is a Cubs game or anther event going on.

 

If you want more boats on the race courses you need more people on the boats. Unless the costs of putting crew on the boats becomes reasonable you will have a hard time getting more boats out there. How about setting up some parking areas which cheap parking and shuttles to the different harbors? That may attract more people to show up a crew.

 

 

1) Start P/P races off the wall near harbor entrances.

 

2) there are thousands/millions of people within the city limits with access to public transit and own bikes. Not to say that your claim is invalid, but growing the sport with the majority of people who are within a busride, train ride, or bike ride of a marina is not the biggest obstacle. People come down to the parks every day just for the heck of it.

 

3) having just "big" events means that your crew is not practised or seasoned for these events compared to routine racing throughout the season IMO

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