Grinder

Chicago Area III

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LMSRF has been collecting the Area 3 season results since 2000 making them available for review, or use in statistical counts - http://lmsrf.org/areas/area-iii/announcements-a-history

Before there was the interwebs, there was a Chicago Tribune writer, Frank Hayes, who collected race results and wrote "In the Wake of the Fleet" newsletter and mailed them to subscribers.  Later Frank passed the baton to Kathleen Thomas.  We have access to the issues of "In the Wake of the Fleet" from 1968-1993, probably 20 issues per year at 16-20 pages each.

We could greatly expand the historical knowledge of Area 3.

This would require hiring a company to un-staple, then scan each issue into a PDF and do appropriate naming of the files, then re-staple them together again.  I have no estimate of the cost.

Do any of you see any value in doing this?

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On 5/26/2018 at 8:48 AM, Grinder said:

No love for Jackson Park YC?

Welcome.  Fuck that salt water shit.

 

Going from decades sailing Lake Michigan to Charlotte Harbor has been a lesson in rust prevention combined with all that other crap that erodes your boat, and your tools, and anything metal nearby.  My workshop is about 50' from our canal.  I'm constantly oiling my Lie Nielsen handplanes to keep rust at bay.  Nothing metal escapes the salt air.  And we're at the mouth of a river. 

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15 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

LMSRF has been collecting the Area 3 season results since 2000 making them available for review, or use in statistical counts - http://lmsrf.org/areas/area-iii/announcements-a-history

Before there was the interwebs, there was a Chicago Tribune writer, Frank Hayes, who collected race results and wrote "In the Wake of the Fleet" newsletter and mailed them to subscribers.  Later Frank passed the baton to Kathleen Thomas.  We have access to the issues of "In the Wake of the Fleet" from 1968-1993, probably 20 issues per year at 16-20 pages each.

We could greatly expand the historical knowledge of Area 3.

This would require hiring a company to un-staple, then scan each issue into a PDF and do appropriate naming of the files, then re-staple them together again.  I have no estimate of the cost. 

Do any of you see any value in doing this?

Zero value in this! While its a nice nostalgic history lesson of the roaring 80's when sailing was much more popular, it does nothing for the state of the union today. Funding this is like lighting money on fire! Fleets are consolidating, PHRF 1-6 is cut down to PHRF 1-2, and OD is growing (a positive for those looking for better sailing). What little money LMSRF might have should be sent on something looking forward, not backward. Bold ideas, not history lessons.


How about you ask all Chicago LMSRF members on 1 Wednesday this summer to make room for two new people, then run an ad in the Trib with "free offshore sailing boat racing experience", setup a landing page on the website, collect contacts and put them in touch with owners. That's actionable.

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48 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Zero value in this! While its a nice nostalgic history lesson of the roaring 80's when sailing was much more popular, it does nothing for the state of the union today. Funding this is like lighting money on fire! Fleets are consolidating, PHRF 1-6 is cut down to PHRF 1-2, and OD is growing (a positive for those looking for better sailing). What little money LMSRF might have should be sent on something looking forward, not backward. Bold ideas, not history lessons.


How about you ask all Chicago LMSRF members on 1 Wednesday this summer to make room for two new people, then run an ad in the Trib with "free offshore sailing boat racing experience", setup a landing page on the website, collect contacts and put them in touch with owners. That's actionable.

Agree with this. The real key to the future is getting more people out on the water. We need to get away from the "yacht club" model where sailors are, if not required, strongly encouraged to become a club member in order to compete. We need to find more opportunities to get unaffiliated people out sailing and keep them sailing. There are many people who don't or can't pay thousands of dollars in membership dues each year but want to get out on the water.

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On 3/15/2019 at 9:48 AM, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Zero value in this! While its a nice nostalgic history lesson of the roaring 80's when sailing was much more popular, it does nothing for the state of the union today. Funding this is like lighting money on fire! Fleets are consolidating, PHRF 1-6 is cut down to PHRF 1-2, and OD is growing (a positive for those looking for better sailing). What little money LMSRF might have should be sent on something looking forward, not backward. Bold ideas, not history lessons.


How about you ask all Chicago LMSRF members on 1 Wednesday this summer to make room for two new people, then run an ad in the Trib with "free offshore sailing boat racing experience", setup a landing page on the website, collect contacts and put them in touch with owners. That's actionable.

Answers to you and Rum Runner together -

It was proposed to make clubs open to the general public showing up to go for a sail on Wednesday nights, with some sort of sign "Line up here" and the boaters go pick up some people for their boats.  Alas, clubs did not want the unscreened public entering their premises, that they paid for, without having any idea who they were.  Plus, they didn't want to get people who "just wanted to go out for a sail" and give them "free rides."  They want people who could become full time sailors.

Which moves it to a different answer - Crew Finders. This is the crew and the boat owner making connections, leaving the clubs out of it. The boat owners make the invitation, these new crew become their responsibility at the club if they do something untoward, and they can screen each person to figure out if they are just trying to go out for a free sail, or have an earnest interest in joining the sailing scene.

So, all Area 3 clubs were asked to create a Crew Finder on their websites, all said they would, and they aren't all there yet.  Of course with LMSRF just adopting RailMeets.com it might speed up the connectivity between the public and the boat owners regionally, rather than wait any longer for all clubs to get their own crewfinders running.

The concept being, creating handouts at street fairs in Lincoln Park (or other locations to be selected).  Do you live on the North Side? Here are the Crew Finder websites for you.  Do you live Central? Here are the Crew Finder websites for you.  Do you live on the South Side? Here are the Crew Finder websites for you.  You might also advertise all of the Crew Schools that occur in the spring also.

Now pick an event - Just looked at North Halsted Market Days.  A Not-For-Profit Vendor 10X10 booth space is $720.  And of course some signage is needed - "Free Sailing - It Ain't Expensive!"  And the printing of the flyers.  And who wants to give up a weekend of sailing to stand in a booth?  I know I would do it.

Would you get 100 people signing up on Crew Finders?  If so, the acquisition cost per crew becomes close to $10 each.

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14 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

Answers to you and Rum Runner together -

It was proposed to make clubs open to the general public showing up to go for a sail on Wednesday nights, with some sort of sign "Line up here" and the boaters go pick up some people for their boats.  Alas, clubs did not want the unscreened public entering their premises, that they paid for, without having any idea who they were.  Plus, they didn't want to get people who "just wanted to go out for a sail" and give them "free rides."  They want people who could become full time sailors.

Which moves it to a different answer - Crew Finders. This is the crew and the boat owner making connections, leaving the clubs out of it. The boat owners make the invitation, these new crew become their responsibility at the club if they do something untoward, and they can screen each person to figure out if they are just trying to go out for a free sail, or have an earnest interest in joining the sailing scene.

So, all Area 3 clubs were asked to create a Crew Finder on their websites, all said they would, and they aren't all there yet.  Of course with LMSRF just adopting RailMeets.com it might speed up the connectivity between the public and the boat owners regionally, rather than wait any longer for all clubs to get their own crewfinders running.

The concept being, creating handouts at street fairs in Lincoln Park (or other locations to be selected).  Do you live on the North Side? Here are the Crew Finder websites for you.  Do you live Central? Here are the Crew Finder websites for you.  Do you live on the South Side? Here are the Crew Finder websites for you.  You might also advertise all of the Crew Schools that occur in the spring also.

Now pick an event - Just looked at North Halsted Market Days.  A Not-For-Profit Vendor 10X10 booth space is $720.  And of course some signage is needed - "Free Sailing - It Ain't Expensive!"  And the printing of the flyers.  And who wants to give up a weekend of sailing to stand in a booth?  I know I would do it.

Would you get 100 people signing up on Crew Finders?  If so, the acquisition cost per crew becomes close to $10 each. 

Glenn,

I think I follow you. If I read correctly, you are agreeing an outreach program is needed. I'm not sure I agree with your execution plan, not because it is bad, but just because it can be done much more simply.

1. Control what you can control. Trying to get the clubs to do anything is like watching paint dry. Whoever owns the CASRA site should put a crew finder blog up there that site has become the defacto sailing info site for Chicago.

2. Get owners to sign up... Need "demand" before you can recruit people to fill slots.

3. To attract new crew I go back to a simple half page ad in the Trib or Instagram ad with a cool sailing photo and link to the CASRA crew pool. The rest will take care of itself...

Just my 2 cents...

 

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You are correct, we're working on trying to get more butts on boats.  I was just trying to give you the background on what the hurdles have been, and what system apparently will satisfy all parties.

Now, there has been a ton of recommendations to lean on Lincoln Park. The Yups run, bike, volleyball, zoo, etc. along the lakefront and see all of those boats out there, it is a heavy concentration of single people with incomes.  It is thought to be the best neighborhood to cherry pick crews from.  While a long time Trib fan, not sure that many people read it anymore, especially the digital younger crowd that makes up the target near northside market.

That's where the street fair idea came in, the Yups are all out looking for something to do so they're at the fair.  You give them a way to use Chicago's largest park - Lake Michigan, and it is an extension of the lakefront they use so much now.

How many will you get from Geneva, or Flossmoor, or McHenry?  What will be their ages and demographics?

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Yups make for terrible crew, unreliable to start with and then have kids and disappear. Why target them? Best crew are unattached/divorced middle age oddballs. You are better off finding them at home depot or dive bars. 

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And while we're at it, don't disparage the Yacht Clubs!  

They are the ones that put on the races, supply assets, race committee, marks et., and spend countless hours organizing, etc.!

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Second for ads at Home Depot and dive bars.

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What about trying the free "activities" "things to do in Chicago" websites?  I couldn't find posting spots on HD or Dive Bar websites ;)  Do you have some websites you would recommend that might get butts on boats?

  • Craigslist Activities
  • Craigslist Events
  • Time Out Chicago
  • Chicago Metromix
  • Choose Chicago

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21 hours ago, Keysrock35 said:

Yups make for terrible crew, unreliable to start with and then have kids and disappear. Why target them? Best crew are unattached/divorced middle age oddballs. You are better off finding them at home depot or dive bars.  

:lol:

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The tried and true method is to attract the women and the boys will show up.

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So you're saying try women looking for men dating sites and invite them to the dudefest that sailing is today?

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I have personally found crew of the hipster (read: youngish) persuasion by posting on Craigslist - give it a shot. I've also found I have to have a specific boat I am recruiting for and that boat is already committed to going out. I usually have no problem scaring up bodies, but rarely can find the boats that are actually leaving the dock to send them to. 

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17 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

So you're saying try women looking for men dating sites and invite them to the dudefest that sailing is today?

I agree with you here. Having sailed with a number of very good sailors who happen to be women, most are put off by the macho types on many boats. They just want to sail competitively with a skipper and crew who treats them equally. They are generally put off by the guys who troll for dates while racing. 

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32 minutes ago, Rum Runner said:

I agree with you here. Having sailed with a number of very good sailors who happen to be women, most are put off by the macho types on many boats. They just want to sail competitively with a skipper and crew who treats them equally. They are generally put off by the guys who troll for dates while racing. 

It's like the guy that wears running shorts to a yoga class and thinks girls want to look at his balls.  Not the place....DUDE.

After I race with woman they are usually so impressed they soften up and then accept the Mt. Gay and coke I am serving....:D

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4 hours ago, proOC said:

It's like the guy that wears running shorts to a yoga class and thinks girls want to look at his balls.  Not the place....DUDE.

After I race with woman they are usually so impressed they soften up and then accept the Mt. Gay and coke I am serving....:D

This is why a lot of women don't want to sail. Ease up on being impressed with yourself.

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I've got a question. What's is the goal here Glenn?

Are you trying to get more people sailing or more boats racing? If boats, which type?

Good boats (well maintained equipment and an owner who knows how to drive. eg, highschool / college dinghy experience) never have a hard time getting / keeping crew.

That begs the question, who is your target audience here? The guy who cruises his 1981 J/35 with the original sails but would like to ease into racing? Not sure that this rising tide would lifts all boats (fleets). Many of the crew on SA are interested in seeing the more numbers on the line for in the competitive, OD boats, not building numbers in the PHRF 5 class as those by default will rarely become competitive programs. 

 

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Just now, stayoutofthemiddle said:

I've got a question. What's is the goal here Glenn?

Are you trying to get more people sailing or more boats racing? If boats, which type?

Good boats (well maintained equipment and an owner who knows how to drive. eg, highschool / college dinghy experience) never have a hard time getting / keeping crew.

That begs the question, who is your target audience here? The guy who cruises his 1981 J/35 with the original sails but would like to ease into racing? Not sure that this rising tide would lifts all boats (fleets). Many of the crew on SA are interested in seeing the more numbers on the line for in the competitive, OD boats, not building numbers in the PHRF 5 class as those by default will rarely become competitive programs. 

 

Elementary - Get more boats racing, period.  Don't care what they got, don't care if newbies, low budget, high budget, top notch, whatever.  In surveys done in A3 and CASRA people have reported they didn't race some days as they didn't have crew.  Getting an adequate supply of crew then gets more boats on starting lines.

We all have seen the turnover in crews, they move, quit racing, retire, die, etc.  We gotta keep a pipeline of new people moving in.

 

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16 hours ago, Rum Runner said:

This is why a lot of women don't want to sail. Ease up on being impressed with yourself.

Most don't want the attitude or just want to be left alone?  I would think both...and my candor also seeps sarcasm!  It's a team sport remember....

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4 hours ago, proOC said:

Most don't want the attitude or just want to be left alone?  I would think both...and my candor also seeps sarcasm!  It's a team sport remember....

PIG! :ph34r:

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11 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

Hello all,

Is this a good thread for introducing myself?

 

depends on what you  are looking for

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7 hours ago, 12345 said:

depends on what you  are looking for

There’s a joke about someone’s mother in there somewhere but I’ll resist....

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21 hours ago, 12345 said:

depends on what you  are looking for

A+ weather in July....

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Anyone know what the "Hundred Boat Beer Can" and Chicago Race Week is all about?

Are they looking to get 100 boats per circle? (Montrose + Belmont) and (Col and Monroe) ??

I also heard Montrose and Belmont finally merged Wed Night racing. Finally! Well overdue. Splitting the heard wasn't a win!

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CRW is bookended with Columbia Cup on the first weekend of August, and Verve Offshore on the second weekend.  In between there will be various one day sailing activities.  The "Super Beer Can" you speak of is for the Monroe circles.  I am not aware of what Belmont / Montrose are doing.

I also do not have information on the events Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday.

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3 hours ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Anyone know what the "Hundred Boat Beer Can" and Chicago Race Week is all about?

Are they looking to get 100 boats per circle? (Montrose + Belmont) and (Col and Monroe) ??

I also heard Montrose and Belmont finally merged Wed Night racing. Finally! Well overdue. Splitting the heard wasn't a win!

All answers found in this month's FREE LMSRF newsletter starting on Page 11 - http://lmsrf.org/images/stories/newsletters/2019/2019_03_LakeMichiganSuRF.pdf

If you're not getting this great resource of info, sign up for it now (LMSRF does not sell or share email addresses with anyone else) - https://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/manage/optin/ea?v=001TYH5ba1NOYXlBKc31Ek7Rg%3D%3D

 

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4 hours ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Anyone know what the "Hundred Boat Beer Can" and Chicago Race Week is all about?

Are they looking to get 100 boats per circle? (Montrose + Belmont) and (Col and Monroe) ??

I also heard Montrose and Belmont finally merged Wed Night racing. Finally! Well overdue. Splitting the heard wasn't a win!

 

They are looking to have all of the circles race at Monroe.

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Who on earth would sail down for a Beercan from up North? 

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4 minutes ago, 12345 said:

Who on earth would sail down for a Beercan from up North? 

There is a "feeder" race on Tuesday night from Belmont to downtown.  Or you can motor.  You certainly don't have to sail down.

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I'm at Monroe and beer cans are already too far away for me to bother with.

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On Tuesday the south side beer can course races to downtown, the north side beet can courses race downtown and the downtown been can course races with all finishing on the same finish line.  Boats can tie at CYC or ColYC with a party at one of them (TBD). Then Wednesday all boats will do a simple (probably) out to a single buoy and back to downtown, again with a party at the opposite club, CYC or ColYC with a party.  Since it was too hard to click on the link for some of ya!:P

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14 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

On Tuesday the south side beer can course races to downtown, the north side beet can courses race downtown and the downtown been can course races with all finishing on the same finish line.  Boats can tie at CYC or ColYC with a party at one of them (TBD). Then Wednesday all boats will do a simple (probably) out to a single buoy and back to downtown, again with a party at the opposite club, CYC or ColYC with a party.  Since it was too hard to click on the link for some of ya!:P

another night on the water, great, but requires crew... and a trip back north/south to the harbor after wed night... which creates the issue of meet up N/S on Tuesday then get back to your car after meeting in the LOOP.... and visa versa on Wed night. 

Just trying to wrap my head around the convenience factor. 

 

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46 minutes ago, 12345 said:

another night on the water, great, but requires crew... and a trip back north/south to the harbor after wed night... which creates the issue of meet up N/S on Tuesday then get back to your car after meeting in the LOOP.... and visa versa on Wed night. 

Just trying to wrap my head around the convenience factor. 

 

And I forgot to include it is FREE dockage at ColYC and CYC both nights.

Logistics is part of sailboat racing, we all figure out how to get around.

 

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Any of you fine folks got a Reccomendation for a surveyor in Chicago area?

 

thanks in advance.

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Was all excited to launch Friday, but the electrics on the ignition switch are shot. (I replaced the switch, tested ok a couple months ago). Barring a miracle troubleshoot tomorrow, I'll need a tow to the slip. 

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Post your issue to the CA group, they are tuned in to issues like this.  Sure seems like stealing your boat might work for a one-off.  

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Jump it with a screwdriver.

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Tried that before replacing the switch, didn't work, prob because I don't know how. Trying to short random shit: I am very smart.

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Great guy, sorry to have lost him -

Arthur (Buddy) Strilky, age 93. Beloved husband of the late Jacqueline, nee Feder. Loving father of Mimi (the late Stuart) Rosenbush and Rick Strilky. Proud grandfather of Eric (Tess) Rosenbush, Lara Rosenbush, Aaron (Lynda) Rosenbush, and Jack Strilky and proud great grandfather of Chandra Moore. Loving uncle to Scott (Dell Kennedy) Feder and Howard Feder. Last surviving crew member of the B-29 Hog Wild, which was shot down by the Soviets over Korea at the end of World War II. He was MIA POW before being liberated. Lifelong Chicagoan, member of Columbia Yacht Club, skippered off-shore racing sailboats for over 70 years. Beloved by crew and competitors alike. He particularly enjoyed engaging the willing listener with his original, erudite intellect and eloquent wit. Service Tuesday, 10:30 AM at Chicago Jewish Funerals, 8851 Skokie Blvd (at Niles Center Road), Skokie. Interment Westlawn. In lieu of flowers, memorials in his name may be made to the Rosenbush Cardiology Prevention Fellowship www.rush.edu/rosenbush. Arrangements by Chicago Jewish Funerals – Skokie Chapel, 847.229.8822, www.cjfinfo.com.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/chicagotribune/obituary.aspx?n=arthur-strilky-buddy&pid=192733945&fbclid=IwAR1OkcAPQ65Aa4AB5xr3inj6ksDkOkW0SDWIcdyFJo2AnwcuCoVvjLQ2vPQ

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Four hundred fuckin bucks for Verve entry fee. 20% over last year, $110 more than NOOD.

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Just now, fucket said:

Fuckin four hundred bucks for Verve entry fee.

As a very wise man once said to me upon balking about a $10 cover at a Gentleman's Club, don't worry, that will represent a very small percentage of your total investment.

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Hey folks.  Just checking in after the 1st beer can race of the season, in 20kts no less. 

 

I also want to put this out there:

If you are sailing or going to Mac Island for the CYC Race to Mackinac, I'd like to propose an unofficial meet-up for a toast to our friend Jon Santarelli, who passed away in the '18 race.

Tuesday, July 16th.

Mustang Lounge, 10pm

Hope to see all of you there.  Be safe.

Jim C

 

 

 

 

 

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Looking forward to the Colors next weekend!  Coming over from Muskegon!  First time doing this regatta.  Should be fun with 7 J/111 on the line.

Hroth

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Best wipeout of the weekend goes to Dire Wolf.  Sweet one during race #1 Saturday. Good to see them get cleaned up and back in the race.   

Hang 10! 

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17 hours ago, 12345 said:

Congrats to the Vytis!

Thanks.

Tiebreaker with a bullet last race.  The fog was really like none other we have seen...

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On 6/11/2019 at 7:30 AM, proOC said:

Thanks.

Tiebreaker with a bullet last race.  The fog was really like none other we have seen...

dunno, we have been pretty foggy on the lake before.... :ph34r:

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12 hours ago, Grinder said:

I hear slowness happened. 

Queen's Cup was a total drifter. Took us almost 22 hrs. All but one other boat dropped out of our section. Wide spread retirements across the fleet.

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9 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Queen's Cup was a total drifter. Took us almost 22 hrs. All but one other boat dropped out of our section. Wide spread retirements across the fleet.

According to the SSYC website, there were 5 sections that had no finishers.  Several sections had 1 or 2 or 3 finishers.  VMG for the winning boat in several sections was 3.3-3.8 knots.

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20 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

According to the SSYC website, there were 5 sections that had no finishers.  Several sections had 1 or 2 or 3 finishers.  VMG for the winning boat in several sections was 3.3-3.8 knots.

Crazy wind sheer and wind convergence.  At one point we auto tacked (gybed?) 8 times without changing course once .  Still not sure if we passed that boat to windward or leeward.......

Totally a big boat race with all of the wind aloft.  Congrats to you crazy kids who finished on the 88's, I thought for sure your stick wasn't tall enough to catch that breeze ;)

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23 minutes ago, Bad Andy said:

Crazy wind sheer and wind convergence.  At one point we auto tacked (gybed?) 8 times without changing course once .  Still not sure if we passed that boat to windward or leeward.......

Totally a big boat race with all of the wind aloft.  Congrats to you crazy kids who finished on the 88's, I thought for sure your stick wasn't tall enough to catch that breeze ;)

Holy hand grenades Batman.  The only boats to finish in that section were 2 J88s.

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49 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Holy hand grenades Batman.  The only boats to finish in that section were 2 J88s.

Yeah, we took the bullet with the other 88 finishing only a couple minutes behind us. Was a long night and morning. We don't have tall stick but those 88's move in these conditions. The 105's just stopped.

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Red Circle (J111, 40.7, Farr40, etc).  Saturday of the Verve.  Heartbreaker's spin douse at the start of the first race.  That was beyond boat porn.  It was high def dvd yachting porn.  Fucking beautiful.

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3 hours ago, NemoUSA59 said:

What were the issues with the j/88 fleet to have so many DSQ and RET?

I was wondering what Banter did to get dsq’d from the 7 races they sailed.  Class rules violation? Rule 69?

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15 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

I was wondering what Banter did to get dsq’d from the 7 races they sailed.  Class rules violation? Rule 69?

The backup spinnaker they brought was no bueno.

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1 minute ago, Looper said:

The backup spinnaker they brought was no bueno.

Seems like a tough penalty for that level of violation.  But then again I don’t race j88sand am not familiar with their class rules.

Thanks for the info.

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Posted (edited)

Updated information regarding Verve Cup Regatta J/88 Class protests.

J/88 Class Lots Of Drama

The seven-boat J/88 class had a somewhat acrimonious regatta. It was very close racing amongst the top four boats with just a few points separating them after seven races onSaturday. Those teams were Tim Wade’s WINDSONG, John & Jordan Leahey’s DUTCH, Andy & Sarah Graff’s EXILE, and Ben Marden’s BANTER. However, after racing on Saturday, both DUTCH and EXILE protested BANTER for using a different spinnaker in race 7 after shredding their primary kite in race 6. While it is permitted to carry two spinnakers under J/88 class rules and use them, it turned out the second spinnaker on BANTER was too big by a few square feet. Instead of simply DSQ’ing BANTER for just the one race, the Jury inexplicably tossed them out of ALL 7 races! To further add fuel to the fires amongst the top four boats, WINDSONG protested EXILE in race 7 and got them DSQ’d for extending their pole too early on the spinnaker set. The next day, Jorgen Christiansen’s USA 75 protested EXILE in race 8 for the exact same infringement and got them DSQ’d again.

As consequence of those Jury Room proceedings, Marden’s BANTER team withdrew from the regatta and Christiansen’s USA 75 team withdrew from the first seven races in sympathy and solidarity for the BANTER team. A very dramatic and poignant outcome for the J/88 scoring table!  
(comment:  proper term after finishing a race is to "retire", not "withdraw".)

The outcome of all the protest room drama was that Tim Wade’s WINDSONG won the regatta with three 1sts, five 2nds, and a DNC in the ninth and last race for 21 pts total (they had already won on points by winning race 8). Second was the Leahey’s DUTCH team with 28 pts and third went to Todd Patton’s BLONDIE 2 with 32 pts.
Edited by marcus brutus
to correct text

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2 hours ago, marcus brutus said:

Updated information regarding Verve Cup Regatta J/88 Class protests.

J/88 Class Lots Of Drama

The seven-boat J/88 class had a somewhat acrimonious regatta. It was very close racing amongst the top four boats with just a few points separating them after seven races onSaturday. Those teams were Tim Wade’s WINDSONG, John & Jordan Leahey’s DUTCH, Andy & Sarah Graff’s EXILE, and Ben Marden’s BANTER. However, after racing on Saturday, both DUTCH and EXILE protested BANTER for using a different spinnaker in race 7 after shredding their primary kite in race 6. While it is permitted to carry two spinnakers under J/88 class rules and use them, it turned out the second spinnaker on BANTER was too big by a few square feet. Instead of simply DSQ’ing BANTER for just the one race, the Jury inexplicably tossed them out of ALL 7 races! To further add fuel to the fires amongst the top four boats, WINDSONG protested EXILE in race 7 and got them DSQ’d for extending their pole too early on the spinnaker set. The next day, Jorgen Christiansen’s USA 75 protested EXILE in race 8 for the exact same infringement and got them DSQ’d again.

As consequence of those Jury Room proceedings, Marden’s BANTER team withdrew from the regatta and Christiansen’s USA 75 team withdrew from the first seven races in sympathy and solidarity for the BANTER team. A very dramatic and poignant outcome for the J/88 scoring table!  
(comment:  proper term after finishing a race is to "retire", not "withdraw".)

The outcome of all the protest room drama was that Tim Wade’s WINDSONG won the regatta with three 1sts, five 2nds, and a DNC in the ninth and last race for 21 pts total (they had already won on points by winning race 8). Second was the Leahey’s DUTCH team with 28 pts and third went to Todd Patton’s BLONDIE 2 with 32 pts.

Imagine that.  And people wonder why racing is not as popular as it once was. 

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Class rules say you can't carry two A2s on the boat. Banter carried two A2s for all of those races. I don't see how anything other than 7 DSQs would make any sense.

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Apparently at least 2 out of the 7 (~30%) and perhaps more of the J/88 Class competitors at the Verve Cup Regatta disagree with your opinion and the Protest Committee decision.

Unless Banter testified at the hearing that they carried both A2 chutes on Friday, P/C erred in its decision to DSQ Banter for Race 1, 2, 3, & 4.

More concerning for the owners and crew is the acrimony and the bad blood that may stall the growth of the Chicago J/88 Feet.

 

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1 hour ago, marcus brutus said:

Apparently at least 2 out of the 7 (~30%) and perhaps more of the J/88 Class competitors at the Verve Cup Regatta disagree with your opinion and the Protest Committee decision.

It's not going to feel good to win a regatta based on something like this, so I don't blame their competitors for being unhappy.

1 hour ago, marcus brutus said:

Unless Banter testified at the hearing that they carried both A2 chutes on Friday, P/C erred in its decision to DSQ Banter for Race 1, 2, 3, & 4.

Agreed, but given the ruling I have to assume that such facts were found.

1 hour ago, marcus brutus said:

More concerning for the owners and crew is the acrimony and the bad blood that may stall the growth of the Chicago J/88 Feet.

You want to know the easiest way to avoid all of the acrimony and bad blood being created in the first place? Not breaking the fucking rules in the first place. This particular rule seems pretty easy to not break.

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3 hours ago, fucket said:

... but given the ruling I have to assume that such facts were found.

You appear to have significantly more faith in the performance of P/C than I do.

The fact that it is extremely difficult to get the information on the members of the P/C and R/C does not inspire much confidence.

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On 3/18/2019 at 6:33 PM, Glenn McCarthy said:

paid for, without having

 

On 3/21/2019 at 2:48 PM, stayoutofthemiddle said:

I've got a question. What's is the goal here Glenn?

Are you trying to get more people sailing or more boats racing? If boats, which type?

Good boats (well maintained equipment and an owner who knows how to drive. eg, highschool / college dinghy experience) never have a hard time getting / keeping crew.

That begs the question, who is your target audience here? The guy who cruises his 1981 J/35 with the original sails but would like to ease into racing? Not sure that this rising tide would lifts all boats (fleets). Many of the crew on SA are interested in seeing the more numbers on the line for in the competitive, OD boats, not building numbers in the PHRF 5 class as those by default will rarely become competitive programs. 

 

You can't build a major league without the minors. Small boat racing in Chicago is all but dead. The fleets that served as feeder fleets for both crew and boat owners are gone, it has become too expensive for both dockage and yacht club for these fleets. It may be worth working with clubs in surrounding areas (smaller lakes throughout the great lakes) to get their fleets healthy. What makes them healthy, participation. We may have to make the commitment to sail small boats actively to inject excitement into these fleets and build numbers. This may require a federation be formed in the midwest or great lakes to facilitate communication and involvement. 

If we can get these fleets healthy and meet crews and owners we can then invite them onto the bigger boats. 

Just my thoughts,

FRENZY

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I've got a question. What's is the goal here Glenn?

Are you trying to get more people sailing or more boats racing? If boats, which type?

Good boats (well maintained equipment and an owner who knows how to drive. eg, highschool / college dinghy experience) never have a hard time getting / keeping crew.

That begs the question, who is your target audience here? The guy who cruises his 1981 J/35 with the original sails but would like to ease into racing? Not sure that this rising tide would lifts all boats (fleets). Many of the crew on SA are interested in seeing the more numbers on the line for in the competitive, OD boats, not building numbers in the PHRF 5 class as those by default will rarely become competitive programs.

You can't build a major league without the minors. Small boat racing in Chicago is all but dead. The fleets that served as feeder fleets for both crew and boat owners are gone, it has become too expensive for both dockage and yacht club for these fleets. It may be worth working with clubs in surrounding areas (smaller lakes throughout the great lakes) to get their fleets healthy. What makes them healthy, participation. We may have to make the commitment to sail small boats actively to inject excitement into these fleets and build numbers. This may require a federation be formed in the midwest or great lakes to facilitate communication and involvement.

If we can get these fleets healthy and meet crews and owners we can then invite them onto the bigger boats.

Just my thoughts,

FRENZY

In the big picture it is all about metrics.  1 of 10 sailboats race.  As you mention you need the minor league to feed the majors.  I include cruising and daysailing in the minors. They bought a boat, have interest in the nautical arts, some day just may be bored with doing the same thing all the time and can be turned into the majors.

I see the metrics all the way around differently than just "cost."  As one said, "Sailboats are expensive, and always will."  This metric will not change forever.  Horribly we have advertised sailing as expensive, the entire public believes it is expensive.  We cannot sell small boats or big boats to the unwashed as a result.  Of course I can get a guy a metric shit ton for under $1000 a year on his/her own boat.  Get a Laser and campaign it.  I laid out a real budget for a Star boat a few years back, and for under $2,500 a year an owner can race like a mad person all of the time.  Is this "rich?"  Is this "Expensive?"  You know, if you get conned into believing you have to buy the "best" in order to go racing, then yes, the budgets for both of these boats will go up.

Harry Nye had the best and was at a regatta a Belmont with his Star. A guy taking his boat out of the water on Saturday after racing was grumbling how he doesn't have "the best' and wished he had Harry's money and Harry's boat.  Harry overheard him, went over and introduced himself and offered they swap their boats and sails for the final day of racing Sunday.  Astonished, the guy agreed.  The guy sailed to the middle of the pack with Harry's boat and was please.  Harry, with this guys boat and sails - won.  Point being, what we already know, most of the time it is "not the boat."  The "elitist snob culture" has permeated racing and making people believe the latest hottest and greatest is the ONLY thing that is important.

I had my best overall finish in the Mac this year, 7th. 1/2 of the sails are a year or two old, the others, well, the #1 had the red canvass removed on it after being a roller furling jib for years.  The #3 is a low aspect ratio, not sure what I would call it. The bottom has tons of little gouges on it (I haven't gotten to that yet), the mast is original on this 43 year old boat, and is it "competitive?"

If you go to US Sailing meetings and see how things are put together, and also hear of the arm twisting at World Sailing meetings, what you see is that the sport currently is only designed for, and by, the elite, professional, and Olympic sailors.  The sport is not designed for the weekend warriors in J/24s, Solings, Stars, Lasers (or whatever we call them this hour), Sunfish, etc.  Do I need to prove this?  It should be self evident. NOOD, Verve, Mac they bring in professional sailors. Just about most weekend small boat sailing and regattas do not bring in the pro's and are anemic (putting it mildly).

An event I am keenly aware of brought back old school where the entertainment social level was paramount where even if you didn't get on the podium (which is the ultimate failure of elite sailing, as there is only one winner, and everyone else leaves with bruised egos and not having fun as a result).  The entertainment social level was squashed by leadership and forced to be run for the elite. It was an abysmal experience.  Participation rotted thanks to the elite nature being jammed down people's throats.

I do not favor any "type" of boat.  I do not care if people are racing bathtubs or Farr 40s. You will see that a bathtub racer will pull out all stops, make the bathtub as competitive as possible and when two bathtubs are overlapped at the finish line, it is called "tight racing" no different than two Farr 40's overlapped crossing the finish line.

You see, we need the volume to work, need it at every type of boat from bathtubs to mega-yachts. And we need to get all of them racing. 

 

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Glenn - I agree with your point. Unfortunately the minor league level does not exist because many young sailors have been convinced that they should only shoot for the major leagues. I see youth instructors  and coaches who insist that their kids sail only one type of boat because that is how they can make it into the "majors". Unfortunately the things that hurt are the "minor league" boats like Sunfish, Thistle, Lightning and the like. You go to these regattas and all you see are old men and women. Very few kids are sailing in these boats. 

We need to re-imagine sailing education to get kids to sail different boats and not just 420's over and over again.

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1 hour ago, Rum Runner said:

Glenn - I agree with your point. Unfortunately the minor league level does not exist because many young sailors have been convinced that they should only shoot for the major leagues. I see youth instructors  and coaches who insist that their kids sail only one type of boat because that is how they can make it into the "majors". Unfortunately the things that hurt are the "minor league" boats like Sunfish, Thistle, Lightning and the like. You go to these regattas and all you see are old men and women. Very few kids are sailing in these boats. 

We need to re-imagine sailing education to get kids to sail different boats and not just 420's over and over again.

While we agree the same solution is needed, we disagree on the problem.

Sailing has a massive "image problem." A study was done in Australia (economies are similar) where they asked the average bloke on the street, "When you hear the word 'Sailing' what do you think?"  The answers were two-fold: The general public believes it is expensive, and they believe it is exclusive (one has to join a yacht club to sail).

Stop and think about it.

Young people (and All people for that matter), won't even take a look at sailing. The decision in their minds are already predetermined.  It isn't for them, they wont even try it. They don't even consider it.

Are they considering powerboating? Looking at a recent report, there will be 120,000+ powerboats sold in the U.S. this year.   And 1,000+ sailboats sold.

BOAT - Break Out Another Thousand

SAILING - If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

IF YOU WANT TO SAIL - first stand in a cold shower with all of your clothes on and tear up hundred dollar bills.

Grab a powerboat?  Hell yes!  Grab a sailboat?  Nope, can't afford it.

EVERYONE in sailing perpetuates the myth that sailing is expensive.  You've already done it in this conversation.  Should I search this website and come up with volumes of other examples of others doing the same?  We shoot sailing in the foot every time we tell people (even ourselves) that sailing is expensive.  This marketing strategy will never work.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

While we agree the same solution is needed, we disagree on the problem.

Sailing has a massive "image problem." A study was done in Australia (economies are similar) where they asked the average bloke on the street, "When you hear the word 'Sailing' what do you think?"  The answers were two-fold: The general public believes it is expensive, and they believe it is exclusive (one has to join a yacht club to sail).

Stop and think about it.

Young people (and All people for that matter), won't even take a look at sailing. The decision in their minds are already predetermined.  It isn't for them, they wont even try it. They don't even consider it.

Are they considering powerboating? Looking at a recent report, there will be 120,000+ powerboats sold in the U.S. this year.   And 1,000+ sailboats sold.

BOAT - Break Out Another Thousand

SAILING - If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

IF YOU WANT TO SAIL - first stand in a cold shower with all of your clothes on and tear up hundred dollar bills.

Grab a powerboat?  Hell yes!  Grab a sailboat?  Nope, can't afford it.

EVERYONE in sailing perpetuates the myth that sailing is expensive.  You've already done it in this conversation.  Should I search this website and come up with volumes of other examples of others doing the same?  We shoot sailing in the foot every time we tell people (even ourselves) that sailing is expensive.  This marketing strategy will never work.

 

 

Glenn - I agree but we need to find ways to give young people access to boats in fun, non-threatening places. Yacht clubs are the worst places in the world to teach sailing IMHO because they perpetuate the idea that the sport is exclusive. Look at countries like France and the Netherlands where there are a lot of community clubs with low costs and boats available. This model seems to be too rare in the US because many waterfront cities, including Chicago, leave boating to the clubs.

College sailing also is a problem because it again requires people to be students and often ignores the local community. Also the party scene at many sailing teams turns people off.  

Finally (my rant can go on forever) the sanctioning organizations seem to focus on Olympic participation instead of reinforcing the lifelong fun aspect of the sport. The US Sailing supported programs are designed to push people into competition and seem less interested in growing the sport.  Golf and tennis are working hard to reverse their negative trends but sailing seems to have its head in the sand still.

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2 hours ago, Rum Runner said:

Glenn - I agree but we need to find ways to give young people access to boats in fun, non-threatening places. Yacht clubs are the worst places in the world to teach sailing IMHO because they perpetuate the idea that the sport is exclusive. Look at countries like France and the Netherlands where there are a lot of community clubs with low costs and boats available. This model seems to be too rare in the US because many waterfront cities, including Chicago, leave boating to the clubs.

College sailing also is a problem because it again requires people to be students and often ignores the local community. Also the party scene at many sailing teams turns people off.  

Finally (my rant can go on forever) the sanctioning organizations seem to focus on Olympic participation instead of reinforcing the lifelong fun aspect of the sport. The US Sailing supported programs are designed to push people into competition and seem less interested in growing the sport.  Golf and tennis are working hard to reverse their negative trends but sailing seems to have its head in the sand still.

All of the excuses all of us have been using forever, does not match up to bonafide research, the public perception, the public has been taught, the public believes sailing is not a sport or activity for them.  This is the state of the marketplace.  Get into the heads of the people who we want to join in.  You find the doors to their mind are closed to sailing.

 

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2 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

All of the excuses all of us have been using forever, does not match up to bonafide research, the public perception, the public has been taught, the public believes sailing is not a sport or activity for them.  This is the state of the marketplace.  Get into the heads of the people who we want to join in.  You find the doors to their mind are closed to sailing.

 

It's a dying sport (activity for most) Glenn. It is what it is and there is little that can be done to reverse that trend. No different to the issues General Aviation has faced over the past 40 yrs. Cost prohibitive and not really that cool or appealing to a larger audience. Sailing has the added issue of Blue Blazer and Caddy Shake scene that the Yuts don't subscribe to. Why go to the yacht club with people their parents age they can go hang out in a hip place like Soho Club.

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/6c51129d-64c0-4f95-a856-406068c39443

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Wow, the TriState doesn’t even rate a post here anymore? Or did I miss it elsewhere?

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Beating for 10 hrs made it worth not mentioning.

Motoring home Sunday was the call but not eventful.

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3 hours ago, proOC said:

Beating for 10 hrs made it worth not mentioning.

Motoring home Sunday was the call but not eventful.

Sounds like a waist of a nice weekend.

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27 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Sounds like a waist of a nice weekend.

What is enjoyable is seeing everyone on the MI side.  Saturday always gets a bit blurry but it's fun hanging with friends.  There was some drama though.  Someone almost drowned in the pool after drinking and trying to hold their breath underwater.  All parties were relieved and breathing.  I think the lifeguards on duty were a bit stunned but they responded well. 

The band and crowd wasn't quite the size but maybe that was due to the headliner playing.  They did rock a few songs though...

 

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On 8/31/2019 at 4:26 PM, MidPack said:

Wow, the TriState doesn’t even rate a post here anymore? Or did I miss it elsewhere?

Bi-State

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Teddy said:

What was the name of the band?

 

One would think that a knowledgable and well informed US Sailing Certified Judge would be able to use a search engine such as google to find the answer.

https://www.stjoetoday.com/all-events/details/2019-tri-state-regatta-party-featuring-catfight

Just curious if you were impaneled  to hear any of the J/111 Worlds Regatta protests?

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Just figured I would be social about asking. Occasionally, I may be looking for a band. St Joe is where I found and met the Phreak Show people.

 

No, I had naught to do with the 111's this time. Maybe they weren't thrilled about the last time I judged their NA's.

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