Grinder

Chicago Area III

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4 minutes ago, Rum Runner said:

I see some lawsuits in the future.  My guess is that MMYC was getting a lot of pressure from someone on the outside.  

Lawsuits?! over bailing on hosting the hook race?! Come on.... This isn't Jon Pod 2005 Mac.

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Its pretty logical, and shows the difference between a fairly out of the way community that has had little exposure to Covid (36 cases in Marinette county), and a community more closely connected to urban centers that have had much more exposure. (1900 cases in Racine county)

Its hardly a shock if the community around Menominee would rather not have 100 boat loads of sailors with a good number from Chicago or Milwaukee showing up, whereas for Racine it probably won't make a huge difference to the likelihood of a outbreak.

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One comment from MMYC noted that all other shoreside events in Menominee have been cancelled for the summer, and they were quite concerned about a gathering of 1000? or more sailors, support people, and families, many of whom would be arriving from places with much higher infection rates than the UP.  My guess is that MMYC asked for a lower cap and once RYC decided on 100 boats, it was more than they wanted to claim responsibility for.  Too bad.  Hopefully they still run the race somehow.  It finished in Sturgeon Bay for a number of years until it turned into a feeder for the 100 Miler, which was also just cancelled.

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1 hour ago, Rum Runner said:

I see some lawsuits in the future.  My guess is that MMYC was getting a lot of pressure from someone on the outside.  

Any one who looks at this and can’t see why MMYC wants no part in a thousand sailors arriving at their docks from Chi, Mwk and Racine, places with high and still rising C19 numbers is not thinking clearly..I would expect that the majority of those organizing the finish and onshore activities are in the most vulnerable age groups too..

How could you get on a boat with 6-15 others with no way of knowing if one of them is positive for the virus? There is no way to socially distance nor are you gonna keep a mask on for an overnite, there’s also contact risk from the galley, heads, bunks, wheel, winch handles etc...

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1 hour ago, dcbsheb said:

One comment from MMYC noted that all other shoreside events in Menominee have been cancelled for the summer, and they were quite concerned about a gathering of 1000? or more sailors, support people, and families, many of whom would be arriving from places with much higher infection rates than the UP.  My guess is that MMYC asked for a lower cap and once RYC decided on 100 boats, it was more than they wanted to claim responsibility for.  Too bad.  Hopefully they still run the race somehow.  It finished in Sturgeon Bay for a number of years until it turned into a feeder for the 100 Miler, which was also just cancelled.

Word from a customer who was at the board meeting said that since they had cancelled every other race at the club it was poor form to allow the Hook (and 100 miler, also canned) to continue.  No sanctioned racing at MMYC scheduled at the moment.

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17 minutes ago, Bad Andy said:

The Hook will still run without MMYC, details being sorted.

Correct. I just left RYC and there is a meeting currently underway and another one scheduled for this evening.

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10 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Correct. I just left RYC and there is a meeting currently underway and another one scheduled for this evening.

Any ideas on prospective destinations being tossed around?  

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Any ideas on prospective destinations being tossed around?  

They could still finish in MM with the proper volunteer/finish line management, just nothing would be sanctioned by the MMYC.

If you were to change the destination to Sturgeon Bay or the likes, you have dropouts/ refunds as that's not the race boats signed up for. Not to mention, having to deal with housing/hotel reservation cancellations, dock reservations, etc

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8 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Any ideas on prospective destinations being tossed around?  

Did not sit in on any of the meeting. Not a member of the Hook Committee.  But talked to some people out in the parking lot before the meeting and Marinette-Menominee was still the destination of choice.  Still use the state-owned marina.  No big party and working on awards ceremony.

Again I am not on the committee.  What I reported was parking lot talk with people who are seemingly in the know.  I would think that the RYC will have a statement available either tonight or tomorrow.

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3 minutes ago, spring fever said:

They could still finish in MM with the proper volunteer/finish line management, just nothing would be sanctioned by the MMYC.

 

But if those boats were still to descend upon MMYC (well, the marina anyway, which MMYC doesn't control), it might make for a lot of unhappy local campers, and would probably permanently ruin the RYC/MMYC relationship for any future Hook races.  Already there are Wisconsinites accusing MMYC of pandering to fear and "the Chicago influence".

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30 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Did not sit in on any of the meeting. Not a member of the Hook Committee.  But talked to some people out in the parking lot before the meeting and Marinette-Menominee was still the destination of choice.  Still use the state-owned marina.  No big party and working on awards ceremony.

Again I am not on the committee.  What I reported was parking lot talk with people who are seemingly in the know.  I would think that the RYC will have a statement available either tonight or tomorrow.

This is what I am hearing as well

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25 minutes ago, JoeO said:

But if those boats were still to descend upon MMYC (well, the marina anyway, which MMYC doesn't control), it might make for a lot of unhappy local campers, and would probably permanently ruin the RYC/MMYC relationship for any future Hook races.  Already there are Wisconsinites accusing MMYC of pandering to fear and "the Chicago influence".

If the race is run to the original destination without MMYC involvement then MMYC gains nothing and looses any shared revenue. Optics from town will be the same. Not as if they can say "well the club is closed so it's not our event". The untrained eye still sees "yachts" finishing and rafting in their harbor.

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skipper spoke with race chairman, or equivalent, its still going to be run, a presser to be released tonite, but likely no change in destination...

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1 hour ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

If the race is run to the original destination without MMYC involvement then MMYC gains nothing and looses any shared revenue. Optics from town will be the same. Not as if they can say "well the club is closed so it's not our event". The untrained eye still sees "yachts" finishing and rafting in their harbor.

So MMYC gets the "blame" from the locals (and their own members who's own racing/events are cancelled), nothing positive comes to them, even though they are trying to do the right thing.. So basically RYC is just giving a big "Fuck You" to MMYC. Nice way to treat a long term partner. See how well that works out for them then when they want to do another Hook race in 2021?  RYC's bad behavior here is certianly not helping my opinion of them, that's for sure.

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12 minutes ago, JoeO said:

So MMYC gets the "blame" from the locals (and their own members who's own racing/events are cancelled), nothing positive comes to them, even though they are trying to do the right thing.. So basically RYC is just giving a big "Fuck You" to MMYC. Nice way to treat a long term partner. See how well that works out for them then when they want to do another Hook race in 2021?  RYC's bad behavior here is certianly not helping my opinion of them, that's for sure.

Too many assumptions here I think, we don't know the full story about MMYC's reasons, or how much influence there was (or was not) from the city/county/state.

We have no idea if the Marina will allow 100 yachts to raft, or if the city/county/state will be ok with that. The Marina has 10 transient berths.....

We don't know if RYC and MMYC are still communicating about this, so probably too early to say that there is bad behavior going on.. (there will be plenty of time for that once the facts come out :).)

 

 

Not that I'm bothered either way, I will be happy that I'm getting out and Sailing my J70.... (and maybe some Soling sailing on the side, The Soling worlds in Milwaukee have not been cancelled yet :).

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This is it. 
I see no other berthing in the area.  

4764D74A-CAE1-40FD-A0DC-BEA1FC5E6AFE.png
 

edit: I see a few small places on the river 

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4 minutes ago, Grinder said:

This is it. 
I see no other berthing in the area.  

4764D74A-CAE1-40FD-A0DC-BEA1FC5E6AFE.png
 

edit: I see a few small places on the river 

Some years back when water levels were low, some of the big and deep boats parked on the river.  Obviously not a concern now.  Not sure how that was arranged and there are some limitations so as not to hinder commercial traffic/docks, and with Marinette Marine/Fincantieri building Navy boats, there are probably some security issues.

As to reference to Wisconsinites being grumpy, I am one, but not complaining about MMYC's decision.  We were not doing the Hook, but we were hopeful the 100 Miler would still go off and would have been registering.  The M/M cities are about 20,000 combined and are certainly more dependent on local business operations like Fincantieri and Kimberly Clark than 100 sailboats visiting for a couple days.  I can certainly sympathize with the club's decision.

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This JUST in from CASRA:

Preliminary Plans for 2020 Racing Season

JUNE 9, 2020

2020 has proven to be a very challenging year.  We want to thank everyone who completed our special 2020 Spring Survey.  Your input has given us some great insight on planning for this season.  At this point, we can now share some preliminary plans for 2020.

Like you, we have heard that harbors are opening “soon.” And we know that, based on your survey responses, many of you want to get on the water and have fun in a responsible way.  Consistent with those goals, we plan to offer the First Annual (and hopefully only) CASRA Social Distancing Series, which will begin approximately two weeks after the harbors open and run through late July. All races originally planned as part of the 2020 CASRA schedule through Friday, July 31st will be cancelled or rescheduled.  The Social Distancing Series will offer simple courses, single and double-handed sections, a casual section, simple start and finish procedures, brag flags awarded by contactless means, and prizes for the best masks.  We will publish race dates, race documents, and further details as soon as possible after the City of Chicago announces a harbor opening date.

It is our hope that, during the months of August and September, we can develop a more traditional race schedule, which is likely to include race weekends, port to port races, and post-race celebrations to the extent possible.  Moreover, we intend to offer racing well into mid-October, to give you all a chance to make up for lost time.

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1 hour ago, JohnMB said:

Too many assumptions here I think....

True... but the optics of RYC basically going ahead with the Hook race to the same destination, using the same marina (M-M Marina) where previous Hook race participants were docked/rafted, and having an awards ceremony,  just as if MMYC were "sponsoring" the finish, can hardly be seen as anything other than a stick-in-you-eye to MMYC. I cant see how this proposal is anything other than the normal Hook race,  other than shutting out MMYC and ignoring MMYC's wishes for RYC to not come there with 10 boats/1000 people. Punishment to MMYC for their decision? Can't imagine MMYC being on board with this or participating in discussions which basically overturn their decision and emasculate them. And how well would that go over with their members who are dealing with a cancelled 100 miler? 

Well, as you say, the facts will be interesting - if we ever get them.

 

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Actually more than a “normal “ Hook Race. I’m not sure they’ve ever had a 100 boat fleet. Think 30-40 is more typical. 

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23 minutes ago, JoeO said:

True... but the optics of RYC basically going ahead with the Hook race to the same destination, using the same marina (M-M Marina) where previous Hook race participants were docked/rafted, and having an awards ceremony,  just as if MMYC were "sponsoring" the finish, can hardly be seen as anything other than a stick-in-you-eye to MMYC. I cant see how this proposal is anything other than the normal Hook race,  other than shutting out MMYC and ignoring MMYC's wishes for RYC to not come there with 10 boats/1000 people. Punishment to MMYC for their decision? Can't imagine MMYC being on board with this or participating in discussions which basically overturn their decision and emasculate them. And how well would that go over with their members who are dealing with a cancelled 100 miler? 

Well, as you say, the facts will be interesting - if we ever get them.

 

Or....  MMYC is fine with it, but just didn’t want the liability this year. 

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Based on posts from the Hook race FB page, seems like RYC is gleefully pushing for the Hook race to go on as planned, use the MM Marina and local bars to support the parties/drinking (social distancing apparently no longer a concern to RYC leadership, reading the posts there they think the pandemmc is over (at least in the UP - who cars if you bring it with you) and just shut out MMYC from it. Look for an announcement at 8PM tonight. So:

a.) doubt M-M YC has been a party to these discussions

b.) can't see as how this doesn't permanently damage the RYC/M-MYC relationship for future Hook races, unless the Machiavellian considerations Monkey alludes to are in fact realized

 

Let's put this in the perspective of a recent topic...

Assume CYC decided to hold the Chi-Mac race regardless of COVID19 concerns, and Mack Isl (Mayor, Chamber of Commerce, Harbomaster) all said, "Sorry, we just don't think it's a good idea this year, it will be impossible to maintain the restrictions needed for the health of our residents, workers, etc, and we have to ask you to cancel this year's race", but instead CYC said "hell no, we're still having the race, but we'll tie up boats in St.Ignace and then everyone will hop on the ferries and will hit the island bars, hotels, and restaurants like normal. We don't care what you want, there's no COVID19 by you, who cares if we bring it with us, we're coming. We know there's a few bars there that want our money regardless of  what yo say".

How do yo think that would go over with Mack Isl leaders/folk? What would you think of the CYC Mac Committee if they did that?  How would boat owners or other YCs react to that?

And having a distance race to a port without the participation/involvement of that port's main YC? How about a race to Waukegan that doesn't involve WYC? Or doing the Tri-State/Bi-State but StJRYC isn't involved at all? 

SMH...

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From RYC:

 

Special Announcement

Hook Race 2020 to be held as planned.

Racine Yacht Club is pleased to announce the 37th running of the Hook Race The race will start Saturday July 18th off Racine Yacht Club and end at Menominee Marina. We would like to thank the area businesses and the Marina for their continued support.

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25 minutes ago, JoeO said:

Based on posts from the Hook race FB page, seems like RYC is gleefully pushing for the Hook race to go on as planned, use the MM Marina and local bars to support the parties/drinking (social distancing apparently no longer a concern to RYC leadership, reading the posts there they think the pandemmc is over (at least in the UP - who cars if you bring it with you) and just shut out MMYC from it. Look for an announcement at 8PM tonight. So:

a.) doubt M-M YC has been a party to these discussions

b.) can't see as how this doesn't permanently damage the RYC/M-MYC relationship for future Hook races, unless the Machiavellian considerations Monkey alludes to are in fact realized

 

Let's put this in the perspective of a recent topic...

Assume CYC decided to hold the Chi-Mac race regardless of COVID19 concerns, and Mack Isl (Mayor, Chamber of Commerce, Harbomaster) all said, "Sorry, we just don't think it's a good idea this year, it will be impossible to maintain the restrictions needed for the health of our residents, workers, etc, and we have to ask you to cancel this year's race", but instead CYC said "hell no, we're still having the race, but we'll tie up boats in St.Ignace and then everyone will hop on the ferries and will hit the island bars, hotels, and restaurants like normal. We don't care what you want, there's no COVID19 by you, who cares if we bring it with us, we're coming. We know there's a few bars there that want our money regardless of  what yo say".

How do yo think that would go over with Mack Isl leaders/folk? What would you think of the CYC Mac Committee if they did that?  How would boat owners or other YCs react to that?

And having a distance race to a port without the participation/involvement of that port's main YC? How about a race to Waukegan that doesn't involve WYC? Or doing the Tri-State/Bi-State but StJRYC isn't involved at all? 

SMH...

Nothing you say is wrong. It’s an interesting dilemma. We’ve got the same problem this summer. We’ve had a pretty small amount of cases this summer, but in theory the Ryder Cup is still coming to town this summer. That should go well. 

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1 hour ago, JoeO said:

From RYC:

 

Special Announcement

Hook Race 2020 to be held as planned.

Racine Yacht Club is pleased to announce the 37th running of the Hook Race The race will start Saturday July 18th off Racine Yacht Club and end at Menominee Marina. We would like to thank the area businesses and the Marina for their continued support.

Looks like RYC have done a backdoor deal with the Marina and the bars...what could go wrong?..

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In other news, Chicago has canceled pretty much every large event this summer. No Air and Water show, Lolla, taste, etc.

 

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2 hours ago, Lightfoot said:

In other news, Chicago has canceled pretty much every large event this summer. No Air and Water show, Lolla, taste, etc.

 

Lori, I didn't know you were on the SA forums! :lol:

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13 hours ago, ro! said:

Looks like RYC have done a backdoor deal with the Marina and the bars...what could go wrong?..

I would guess that the town of Menominee probably doesn't have a clue this event is going to happen.  I suspect that once they catch wind of this coming to town, they will squash it.

I could be wrong...

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26 minutes ago, Looper said:

I would guess that the town of Menominee probably doesn't have a clue this event is going to happen.  I suspect that once they catch wind of this coming to town, they will squash it.

I could be wrong...

I thought Wisco was reopened?! They are far less worried about Covid than IL.... Probably welcome the business no?

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19 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

I thought Wisco was reopened?! They are far less worried about Covid than IL.... Probably welcome the business no?

Menominee is Michigan.

 

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11 minutes ago, Tronner said:

Menominee is Michigan.

 

So it is! Just learned something. Interesting to see the state lines right there on Google Maps... 

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1 hour ago, Looper said:

I would guess that the town of Menominee probably doesn't have a clue this event is going to happen.  I suspect that once they catch wind of this coming to town, they will squash it.

I could be wrong...

Or they were the ones that supported it once the M&M yacht club backed out...

I live up in GB and go thru the area all the time. I doubt the locals will even notice a sailboat race going on that finishes on Sunday Night Thru Monday AM in Menominee, except the ones that would like there business (i.e places right by the Marina) to make some money.  On a Friday Night or Sunday afternoon there are more Illinois plates going thru and stopping there for food/gas etc then any Hook Race is going to bring.

For example even though Chicago Yacht Club did not want to go to Mackinac Island or do the race but from mackinaciskand.org it talks about reopening and wanting people there...

I know people in Chicago have it different then us up here.  I know its hard to think about for your area but we are open up here (following rules, masks, distance etc) and people are making it work.  Just like they are for the Hook Race...just like your lake front is trying now...all good things I believe.

I know the tone of a lot people is that none of this should be tried or done because it will bring a 2nd wave, more deaths etc...Time will tell for everyone's opinions and we all have one.

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21 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

So it is! Just learned something. Interesting to see the state lines right there on Google Maps... 

The river splits the states

Thus the M&M yacht club...Menominee and Marinette

Also another quick tip since there so close...in Michigan you pay for can deposit on ur beer $.10, u can also get it back when returning said cans...If Wisconsin you do not have to pay for deposit but can return cans in MI and receive $.10 back...Kramer tried this in Seinfeld episode I believe but was driving from NYC.  Easier to do if you live in Menominee Marinette haha

 

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28 minutes ago, CPJIII said:

On a Friday Night or Sunday afternoon there are more Illinois plates going thru and stopping there for food/gas etc then any Hook Race is going to bring.

 hundreds of people coming to their isolated little town from Chicago might give them more pause, at least when the local news starts writing about it.

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2 hours ago, Looper said:

I would guess that the town of Menominee probably doesn't have a clue this event is going to happen.  I suspect that once they catch wind of this coming to town, they will squash it.

I could be wrong...

There were a couple very vocal bar owners who pushed for the race to continue and lobbied ("worked with") RYC. Now they don't have to compete with M&M YC for drink/food revenue. They suposedly got buy-in from the Menominee Marina. So I'd be surprised if the "city fathers" are unaware of it. John Q. Public is a different story.

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51 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 hundreds of people coming to their isolated little town from Chicago might give them more pause, at least when the local news starts writing about it.

Interesting point...not that I don't agree with you.

If the headline is a positive one that says its bringing money to the area despite Yacht club not wanting it you might see people show up to support it.  Of course the Headline can read Chicago boats bringing Covid to area by the thousands to kill your parents then it might have a different outcome...its in the optics on how its reported.  

Another thing is that Menominee does not have TV news stations, all is From Green bay/Appleton.  GB and Appleton in my opinion will not care and report on something like this.  We have Door County which is much closer and I can assure you there have been Thousands of people from Chicago each of the last 4 weekends and no one is having issues or are there any news stories about it.  

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They are in "talks".  There best interest would be to hold off for a year.  I can not see the State of Michigan giving the ok on this.

 

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1 minute ago, proOC said:

They are in "talks".  There best interest would be to hold off for a year.  I can not see the State of Michigan giving the ok on this.

 

RYC is acting like it is a done deal and telling  their members that. What "OK" does the State of MI have to give? Race permit? Wouldn't that be USCG? The bar owner(s) say Michigan is in Phase 5 with minimal restrictions now (up to 250 ppl  allowed to gather outside, 100 ppl inside). One of them said:

" We expect to be moved to post pandemic status by July 4th. Which means no restrictions. Murray’s and the Pirates Cove will be ready for whatever the Hook brings! "

Wonder if he realizes it could be a surge in COVID19 cases in their populace?    Doubt he cares as long as the bar brings in the $$$.

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27 minutes ago, JoeO said:

RYC is acting like it is a done deal and telling  their members that. What "OK" does the State of MI have to give? Race permit? Wouldn't that be USCG? The bar owner(s) say Michigan is in Phase 5 with minimal restrictions now (up to 250 ppl  allowed to gather outside, 100 ppl inside). One of them said:

" We expect to be moved to post pandemic status by July 4th. Which means no restrictions. Murray’s and the Pirates Cove will be ready for whatever the Hook brings! "

Wonder if he realizes it could be a surge in COVID19 cases in their populace?    Doubt he cares as long as the bar brings in the $$$.

As you can see lots of people in my area do not care anymore about Covid-19 as they simply want there $$$ for there business, and can you blame them?

One side is stay closed and loose your business, other side is get open and do what u can to make money all while keeping people safe.

For the last month up in this area it has been then later and people are not dying more than before, there is no rush on the coveted bed and are #'s are staying the same.  Will this change?  who knows...I can tell you that these owners and workers are doing everything they can to keep people safe.  There are so appreciative of the business and people coming back to spend $$$.

I can say this, a bar owner in a small tourist town that depends on the summer crowd to live on is going to take more risks then a person in Chicago that can work from home and have everything from food to booze delivered to there door without any contact.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, JoeO said:

RYC is acting like it is a done deal and telling  their members that. What "OK" does the State of MI have to give? Race permit? Wouldn't that be USCG? The bar owner(s) say Michigan is in Phase 5 with minimal restrictions now (up to 250 ppl  allowed to gather outside, 100 ppl inside). One of them said:

" We expect to be moved to post pandemic status by July 4th. Which means no restrictions. Murray’s and the Pirates Cove will be ready for whatever the Hook brings! "

Wonder if he realizes it could be a surge in COVID19 cases in their populace?    Doubt he cares as long as the bar brings in the $$$.

Menominee Marina is state owned, operated under the umbrella of the MI DNR.  The DNR website says outdoor group "events" on state property are limited to 100 or less.  So in a broad reading, the state of MI could still step in and say no, but not sure if it will percolate to the exec level of the DNR or others in government.  But you would think the on-site manager would check with his/her boss given the potential for publicity, whether good or bad.

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79137_79770_98458-531005--,00.html

 

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20 minutes ago, CPJIII said:

I can say this, a bar owner in a small tourist town that depends on the summer crowd to live on is going to take more risks then a person in Chicago that can work from home and have everything from food to booze delivered to there door without any contact.

Thing is, it's not just the bar owner who takes on the risks - but everyone who goes to that bar, and then everyone who interacts with someone who went to that bar in the next 2 weeks. From the pictures I've seen of these bars  in operation up there now, I'm not seeing much social distancing, let alone any masks. It's one thing to open your bar up to the locals when you have basically zero cases in the immediate populace, its quite another to open up your bar to 100's of people coming from areas with a much higher incidence of infection (Chi, Mke, Rac). 

On top of that, by holding the race, RYC is essentially encouraging people to forego social distancing while being in close contact with 8-10-12 people for 30+ hours (sorry, I don't see crew wearing masks 24hrs/day for the duration of the race, especially in mid-July). This goes against all medical advice, and is one of the contributing reasons that other YC's have cancelled their races - they can't see in good conscience putting people at risk in that manner.  

This thing isn't over. I'm about to go back into work - I am required to wear a face mask when on site indoors, unless in my own office with the door closed and no visitors. Otherwise I wear a mask. I get screened for a fever every day upon entry to the site. If I must wotk in close proximity to another person (< 6'), I (and they) must wear a mask and face shield.  I must clean with disinfecting wipes any common surfaces I come in contact with (benches/table tops, computer keyboards/mice, tools, etc.). Coffee pots and other lunchroom paraphenalia are off-limits to all. Some buildings have stairways designated as "up" or "down" only, in order to minimize human contact. And all of this to prevent spread of the virus, in a workplace that is in the far western suburbs of Chicago - not downtown - where the number of cases has been fairly moderate.  But on the weekends its OK to pack 6-10 peoeple onto a 35-40 foot boat for 30 hours straight without any of these precautions?  

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1 hour ago, JoeO said:

RYC is acting like it is a done deal and telling  their members that. What "OK" does the State of MI have to give? Race permit? Wouldn't that be USCG? The bar owner(s) say Michigan is in Phase 5 with minimal restrictions now (up to 250 ppl  allowed to gather outside, 100 ppl inside). One of them said:

" We expect to be moved to post pandemic status by July 4th. Which means no restrictions. Murray’s and the Pirates Cove will be ready for whatever the Hook brings! "

Wonder if he realizes it could be a surge in COVID19 cases in their populace?    Doubt he cares as long as the bar brings in the $$$.

Michigan won't go post pandemic until there is a vaccine.  Yoop is currently stage 5 with 6 being post pandemic.  That won't change until?

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55 minutes ago, JoeO said:

Thing is, it's not just the bar owner who takes on the risks - but everyone who goes to that bar, and then everyone who interacts with someone who went to that bar in the next 2 weeks. From the pictures I've seen of these bars  in operation up there now, I'm not seeing much social distancing, let alone any masks. It's one thing to open your bar up to the locals when you have basically zero cases in the immediate populace, its quite another to open up your bar to 100's of people coming from areas with a much higher incidence of infection (Chi, Mke, Rac). 

On top of that, by holding the race, RYC is essentially encouraging people to forego social distancing while being in close contact with 8-10-12 people for 30+ hours (sorry, I don't see crew wearing masks 24hrs/day for the duration of the race, especially in mid-July). This goes against all medical advice, and is one of the contributing reasons that other YC's have cancelled their races - they can't see in good conscience putting people at risk in that manner.  

This thing isn't over. I'm about to go back into work - I am required to wear a face mask when on site indoors, unless in my own office with the door closed and no visitors. Otherwise I wear a mask. I get screened for a fever every day upon entry to the site. If I must wotk in close proximity to another person (< 6'), I (and they) must wear a mask and face shield.  I must clean with disinfecting wipes any common surfaces I come in contact with (benches/table tops, computer keyboards/mice, tools, etc.). Coffee pots and other lunchroom paraphenalia are off-limits to all. Some buildings have stairways designated as "up" or "down" only, in order to minimize human contact. And all of this to prevent spread of the virus, in a workplace that is in the far western suburbs of Chicago - not downtown - where the number of cases has been fairly moderate.  But on the weekends its OK to pack 6-10 peoeple onto a 35-40 foot boat for 30 hours straight without any of these precautions?  

Everyone has choices weather its to go on a sailboat race or to a bar now days with COVID-19, here in northern Wisconsin I feel more choose the bar and sailing over staying locked down...is it the right choice?  We obviously know from this discussion that it yes and no, and you and I will not be able to change that, we can just make our own choices.

The things they are making you do for work seem like a very safe way to move forward, I would hope eventually that can be a little more normal for you going forward also.

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This thread hasn’t been this active since a section of 8 GL70’s plied the lakefront.   Thank you all.  

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3 hours ago, JoeO said:

Thing is, it's not just the bar owner who takes on the risks - but everyone who goes to that bar, and then everyone who interacts with someone who went to that bar in the next 2 weeks. From the pictures I've seen of these bars  in operation up there now, I'm not seeing much social distancing, let alone any masks. It's one thing to open your bar up to the locals when you have basically zero cases in the immediate populace, its quite another to open up your bar to 100's of people coming from areas with a much higher incidence of infection (Chi, Mke, Rac). 

On top of that, by holding the race, RYC is essentially encouraging people to forego social distancing while being in close contact with 8-10-12 people for 30+ hours (sorry, I don't see crew wearing masks 24hrs/day for the duration of the race, especially in mid-July). This goes against all medical advice, and is one of the contributing reasons that other YC's have cancelled their races - they can't see in good conscience putting people at risk in that manner.  

This thing isn't over. I'm about to go back into work - I am required to wear a face mask when on site indoors, unless in my own office with the door closed and no visitors. Otherwise I wear a mask. I get screened for a fever every day upon entry to the site. If I must wotk in close proximity to another person (< 6'), I (and they) must wear a mask and face shield.  I must clean with disinfecting wipes any common surfaces I come in contact with (benches/table tops, computer keyboards/mice, tools, etc.). Coffee pots and other lunchroom paraphenalia are off-limits to all. Some buildings have stairways designated as "up" or "down" only, in order to minimize human contact. And all of this to prevent spread of the virus, in a workplace that is in the far western suburbs of Chicago - not downtown - where the number of cases has been fairly moderate.  But on the weekends its OK to pack 6-10 peoeple onto a 35-40 foot boat for 30 hours straight without any of these precautions?  

I don’t mean this to be rude in any way, but your statement “I’m about to go back to work” clarified a huge difference in mindsets. Many of us worked right through this. There were 20+ confirmed cases so far just in the building I work in. We’ve all pretty much gone numb to the issue. 
 

Think of it like racing through the night in nasty weather. It’s a stupidly unnecessary risk that scares the crap out of anyone initially. Then it gets to the point where you just throw a harness on and head out on deck without thinking twice. 
 

Not saying it’s right, but the overwhelming attitude I’ve noticed from all of us that worked right through this is that we just aren’t scared anymore. 

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2 hours ago, CPJIII said:

Everyone has choices weather its to go on a sailboat race or to a bar now days with COVID-19, here in northern Wisconsin I feel more choose the bar and sailing over staying locked down...is it the right choice?  We obviously know from this discussion that it yes and no, and you and I will not be able to change that, we can just make our own choices.

The things they are making you do for work seem like a very safe way to move forward, I would hope eventually that can be a little more normal for you going forward also.

Weather or Whether? 

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11 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I don’t mean this to be rude in any way, but your statement “I’m about to go back to work” clarified a huge difference in mindsets. Many of us worked right through this. There were 20+ confirmed cases so far just in the building I work in. We’ve all pretty much gone numb to the issue. 
 

Think of it like racing through the night in nasty weather. It’s a stupidly unnecessary risk that scares the crap out of anyone initially. Then it gets to the point where you just throw a harness on and head out on deck without thinking twice. 
 

Not saying it’s right, but the overwhelming attitude I’ve noticed from all of us that worked right through this is that we just aren’t scared anymore. 

I get your point, and it's not like I haven't been working - I'm lucky enough that I can do most of what I do remotely, even take data, control things. That said, by no means have I been a hermit either - I've gone grocery shopping weekly, ordered take out, gone hiking in the local woods with my daughter weekly, walking in the neighborhood daily, and have met up with freinds on occasion - all while masked and keeping socially distanced, as it were.

But there is difference between what me must do, and the risks we take for that, and what we choose to do. And doing the things we must, whether it be working or just pursuing life's needs, we still (hopefully) adhere to CDC guidelines, etc. But on a boat... well, how likely is it?

To use your analogy, using a harness during bad weather at night is a recognition of risk and an effective mitigation of it - but racing 180 miles on a boat with 7-9 other potentially infected (asymptomatic) people , without being able to effectively practice social distancing, wear masks, disinfect surfaces regularly, is like sailing at night in rough weather and not only not using a PFD/harness, but going barefoot and with you eyes closed. 

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1 hour ago, Grinder said:

This thread hasn’t been this active since a section of 8 GL70’s plied the lakefront.   Thank you all.  

That's what "quarantineing" does to people! Too much time to spend on distractions!

But it's better than like learning to knit or something.

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1 hour ago, Grinder said:

This thread hasn’t been this active since a section of 8 GL70’s plied the lakefront.   Thank you all.  

Maybe that’s why I’m cranky. The GL70 I sailed on is gone, as well as the one I worked for. 

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1 hour ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

....The old Goblin and Success days. Now we are getting old.

Speakl for yourself I get younger every year.

 

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13 hours ago, Monkey said:

Maybe that’s why I’m cranky. The GL70 I sailed on is gone, as well as the one I worked for. 

Sailing dead. Glory years gone forever. All that is left is a pro'd out J/70 fleet, a misfit fleet of tired 30-40 ft PHRF boats with UK tape drive sails, and the occasional 50-60 footer with scarily old running rigging crewed by finger loosing crews it never designed for...

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How about the world's longest fresh water triangle course... 3 simultaneous races, starting in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Holland. Start and finish from same town, round buoys off the other 2. Would that be ~250 nautical miles, maybe a bit more? Use government marks. Do it 3 bridges fiasco style with contestants choosing whether to go clockwise or counter (maybe), or not. Score each race individually and also an outright winner, maybe even score individual legs (take your own timing as you round). You get to start and finish in the same place and a mess of boats are close enough to any of the 3 start locations. Would be the first and last time the race is ever run. A couple of beers may have been drunk when this idea came up this week. No OA, this is anarchy, after all.

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Port Huron to Mac is now Shore Course only because US - CA border is expected to stay closed until end of July.

Also did everyone see the CARSA email? No races or events until August, and the ones that do occur will be under 'social distancing rules.'

Any update on Beer Cans? Columbia's site implied updates as of May 31st, and I haven't seen an update. 

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5 hours ago, the other mongo said:

How about the world's longest fresh water triangle course... 3 simultaneous races, starting in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Holland. Start and finish from same town, round buoys off the other 2. Would that be ~250 nautical miles, maybe a bit more? Use government marks. Do it 3 bridges fiasco style with contestants choosing whether to go clockwise or counter (maybe), or not. Score each race individually and also an outright winner, maybe even score individual legs (take your own timing as you round). You get to start and finish in the same place and a mess of boats are close enough to any of the 3 start locations. Would be the first and last time the race is ever run. A couple of beers may have been drunk when this idea came up this week. No OA, this is anarchy, after all.

2 questions. 
1. What is the name of said regatta and 2. What is the commemorative Malort-based drink to celebrate said regatta course-round.  

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6 minutes ago, Grinder said:

2 questions. 
1. What is the name of said regatta and 2. What is the commemorative Malort-based drink to celebrate said regatta course-round.  

1. Lake Michigan Gyre. or possibly Pirouette.

Alternatively the Lobster Quadrille.

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6 hours ago, the other mongo said:

How about the world's longest fresh water triangle course... 3 simultaneous races, starting in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Holland. Start and finish from same town, round buoys off the other 2. Would that be ~250 nautical miles, maybe a bit more? Use government marks. Do it 3 bridges fiasco style with contestants choosing whether to go clockwise or counter (maybe), or not. Score each race individually and also an outright winner, maybe even score individual legs (take your own timing as you round). You get to start and finish in the same place and a mess of boats are close enough to any of the 3 start locations. Would be the first and last time the race is ever run. A couple of beers may have been drunk when this idea came up this week. No OA, this is anarchy, after all.

And for giggles use the NOAA buoy off Kenosha as a common turning mark.  Some fleets take it to port, others to starboard.  Could make for some interesting “camaraderie.”

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For all the Malort lovers out there...u might have watched this (chicago folks) but for those of you who do not know what Malort is...I for one will never forget my 1st one...kinda like black berry brandy in wisco

 

https://youtu.be/q7s16ewP1RU

 

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Never had Malort. But since it is Swedish is it related to Danish Akavit (Aquavit)? Another foul drink.

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Malort is like a liqueur with a lovely floral and herbal bouquet, except that the flowers and herbs have rotted in the back of the fridge for six months. (I love* it.)

*in a weird abusive love relationship.

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17 hours ago, Grinder said:

2 questions. 
1. What is the name of said regatta and 2. What is the commemorative Malort-based drink to celebrate said regatta course-round.  

Hagman Cup :D

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Add the extra challenge that you don’t have to say which city you are starting from. Thus there will be a race 10 hours prior to start as teams in the wrong city rush to the right one based on the weather forecast.

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South Shore YC in Milwaukee has been contacted and it's being thunk over. Some more Hollanders are in support. Any of the clubs in Chicago wanna entertain the idea? I think just a start is needed, competitors can take their own finish.

Port Sheldon buoy, mid way between Holland and Grand Haven, might be the most accessible for us to go to and do a start here by me, and then would be a rounding mark for Milwaukee and Chicago racers. It's very scenic, strippers are known to sunbathe on it, sometimes even female ones. It's about 82 nautical miles from, say, the CCYC set of marks (are they being put in?).

I feel like Blutarski in Animal House. "Nothing is over until WE say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?" Maybe that's the inspiration for a name for this race(s)?

 

Toga

Toga

Toga

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~215 Nautical between CCYC circle, Port Sheldon Buoy in MI, some point around SSYC in Milwaukee, ad back to CCYC circle (with a little carve east just north of Racine). Cruisers can choose to use their engines at certain times with a penalty multiplier like the Ensanada race ;-)

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2 hours ago, the other mongo said:

South Shore YC in Milwaukee has been contacted and it's being thunk over. Some more Hollanders are in support. Any of the clubs in Chicago wanna entertain the idea? I think just a start is needed, competitors can take their own finish.

Port Sheldon buoy, mid way between Holland and Grand Haven, might be the most accessible for us to go to and do a start here by me, and then would be a rounding mark for Milwaukee and Chicago racers. It's very scenic, strippers are known to sunbathe on it, sometimes even female ones. It's about 82 nautical miles from, say, the CCYC set of marks (are they being put in?).

I feel like Blutarski in Animal House. "Nothing is over until WE say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?" Maybe that's the inspiration for a name for this race(s)?

 

Toga

Toga

Toga

Gone but not forgotten, he left a great legacy that years later still makes me smile....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9aXFs19dM

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On 6/12/2020 at 7:03 PM, the other mongo said:

~215 Nautical between CCYC circle, Port Sheldon Buoy in MI, some point around SSYC in Milwaukee, ad back to CCYC circle (with a little carve east just north of Racine). Cruisers can choose to use their engines at certain times with a penalty multiplier like the Ensanada race ;-)

Team Shorty is very interested. 

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23 hours ago, Callahan said:

Anybody know much about Goblin? Friend looking at it on the West Coast. Grinder?

I thought the Chicago Seascouts got it after Lindy was done with it. Was on a can in Monroe for a couple years but haven't seen it since. Where did it land? Did a Tri-State on that boat with Grinder when I was in college!

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********************JUNE 15***********************

Staging in ALL harbors taking place all last week.

WILL THE LAKEFRONT / HARBORS OPEN TODAY? THIS WEEK???

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On 6/12/2020 at 5:57 PM, the other mongo said:

South Shore YC in Milwaukee has been contacted and it's being thunk over. Some more Hollanders are in support. Any of the clubs in Chicago wanna entertain the idea? I think just a start is needed, competitors can take their own finish.

Port Sheldon buoy, mid way between Holland and Grand Haven, might be the most accessible for us to go to and do a start here by me, and then would be a rounding mark for Milwaukee and Chicago racers. It's very scenic, strippers are known to sunbathe on it, sometimes even female ones. It's about 82 nautical miles from, say, the CCYC set of marks (are they being put in?).

I feel like Blutarski in Animal House. "Nothing is over until WE say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!?" Maybe that's the inspiration for a name for this race(s)?

 

Toga

Toga

Toga

The CCYC marks will be put in once the harbors open.  I launched the CCYC RC boat that puts them in this past Thursday so no reason for it not to be a go.

Also, beercans at CCYC will start 2 Wednesdays following the opening of the Chicago Harbors.

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1 hour ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

I thought the Chicago Seascouts got it after Lindy was done with it. Was on a can in Monroe for a couple years but haven't seen it since. Where did it land? Did a Tri-State on that boat with Grinder when I was in college!

That was the Tripp 47 Goblin. The last one was a Nelson/Marek 50 that was previously ISLER & Promo.  It became ELIXER in California and is now for sale.  
 

https://cruisingyachts.net/prewowned-yacht/50-nelson-marek-50/

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33 minutes ago, Grinder said:

That was the Tripp 47 Goblin. The last one was a Nelson/Marek 50 that was previously ISLER & Promo.  It became ELIXER in California and is now for sale.  
 

https://cruisingyachts.net/prewowned-yacht/50-nelson-marek-50/

ahhhh got it. This was that boat he kept on the west coast that you guys went out and did races on...

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1 hour ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

ahhhh got it. This was that boat he kept on the west coast that you guys went out and did races on...

Negative again. 
NM50 Goblin was never on West Coast as Goblin. Lindy had a Columbia 50 named Condor, then. NM 68 named Condor. Those were the boats we raced out there.  The NM 68 was our Transpac ride.  
The NM 50 was sold from Chicago, then went out there as ELIXER.  

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14 minutes ago, Grinder said:

Negative again. 
NM50 Goblin was never on West Coast as Goblin. Lindy had a Columbia 50 named Condor, then. NM 68 named Condor. Those were the boats we raced out there.  The NM 68 was our Transpac ride.  
The NM 50 was sold from Chicago, then went out there as ELIXER.  

I'm missing some history following my sailing retirement after SUE in 2007, until I came back for the 88's in 2016! Didn't realize you had a Goblin post the Tripp 47 in Chicago...

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3 hours ago, Grinder said:

 The last one was a Nelson/Marek 50 that was previously ISLER

Didn't realize Lindy was such a fan of Peter... ^_^

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28 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

I'm missing some history following my sailing retirement after SUE in 2007, until I came back for the 88's in 2016! Didn't realize you had a Goblin post the Tripp 47 in Chicago...

Me too!  I remember a story where Buddy Melges was aboard and some yahoos were grinding out overrides on a winch and Buddy claimed he was saying I wouldn't do that as one of the yahoos ate a winch.

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2 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Me too!  I remember a story where Buddy Melges was aboard and some yahoos were grinding out overrides on a winch and Buddy claimed he was saying I wouldn't do that as one of the yahoos ate a winch.

What do you mean "ate a winch"? Winch exploded and hit him in the face? Or he got a finger in the line?

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1 minute ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

What do you mean "ate a winch"? Winch exploded and hit him in the face? Or he got a finger in the line?

In the face.  IIRC, ambulance met them at Navy Pier.

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Lakefront Trail reopens on June 22 for exercise and transit. Hours limited to 6am-7pm with social distancing ambassadors monitoring traffic flow. 

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17 minutes ago, spring fever said:

Lakefront Trail reopens on June 22 for exercise and transit. Hours limited to 6am-7pm with social distancing ambassadors monitoring traffic flow. 

Does that mean Harbor will be open then with limited hours?!

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40 minutes ago, stayoutofthemiddle said:

Does that mean Harbor will be open then with limited hours?!

According to Harbors FB - they WILL be opening on June 22. No details yet

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2 hours ago, JoeO said:

Didn't realize Lindy was such a fan of Peter... ^_^

I doubt that a smart guy like LT would ever be Pedro's fan.

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