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peterivanac

Australian Lightweight Sharpies

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Hi Guys/Gals,

 

You might have seen a bit about the Sharpies on the front page. Just putting a line out to any Aussies who have lost interest in their class, or are keen to get back into competitive sailing with good size fleets, a fantasic social scene, and a more reasonable budget. The Australian Lightweight Sharpie is a cheap, exciting, competitive, complex sailing dinghy with a famous social scene. It is one of those rare classes where the original design of the class was damn good from day one, and as a result, little need to change the rules. As a result, a lot of old boats remain competitive to this day, keeping the price of purchasing a competitve new boat right down (a rarity these days). For this reason alone, the Sharpie is the best way to return to competitive dinghy sailing or a good class to move to if you are sick of playing follow the leader because you don't have the latest $30-50,000 carbon wonder. The best example of this is Peter Chappell and his 20 year old (that's right folks) Sharpie. The boat is still extremely comptitive, easily won the recent WA state titles and would be a strong contendor in a Nationals.

 

For those with some time to fill in, take a look and give us a call/email if you are interested in trying out a Sharpie.

 

www.sharpies.com.au

 

www.washarpies.com

 

http://www.qldsharpie.linkt.com.au/?Home

http://www.sasharpies.org.au/

 

http://www.vicsharpies.com/

 

A bit of vid, but plenty on the sites and youtube in general;

http://www.sharpies.com.au/Video66thNats.html

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Amazing bang for the buck, the LW Sharpie.

 

Requires dedication though, to adhere to the rigourous beer and pizza diet!

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Er, I think you have completely missed the point. Who cares if a 14 is a few knots faster.

If you want to go fast, just go windsurfing or moth sailing.

Sharpies are about being able to put a $10k boat in the water and compete at a very high level.

There are $5k boats out there that are very fast.

 

 

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Er, I think you have completely missed the point. Who cares if a 14 is a few knots faster.

If you want to go fast, just go windsurfing or moth sailing.

Sharpies are about being able to put a $10k boat in the water and compete at a very high level.

There are $5k boats out there that are very fast.

 

 

 

 

1+

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No they are all fitness fanatics now R, less than a case a night each.

 

Great boats, great group of people.

 

Great economy, low tech build that will genuinely last forever.

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The Sharpie was my first grown up sailing dinghy I ever sailed. I was a fresh faced 17 year old when I started to sail them through a friend at the University of Queensland. (i was not a student just a blow in). Before this I sailed Lasers.

Sailed them for about 3 seasons and managed to get to one Nationals. What a eye opener! Great fleet and a great guys that sail them.

Very technical boat to sail and with 3 crew you could get into a bit of trouble off the water also.

I remember the alphabet game at Yeppoon sailing club every Easter. Best I ever got was "W", Never quite made it to Z. The whiskey would get me every time.

 

Was trying to get involved this year is Vegas with my cousin Brett from WA but he has decided to have babies and buy houses and that that sort of stuff so it is a maybe still at this stage.

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I bought Peelgrane Marine 805 (National Champ 1991, and possibly 1992???) for $1,000 on a licenced trailer (I kid you not) and she's a beauty. 19 years old and she's still down to weight, and structurally pretty bloody good. She's obviously not as stiff as she was, but any girl would a bit floppy and loose after 3 blokes having their way with her for 19 years. But, Hazelgrove did an awesome job on this boat the way the stays, pulleys and fittings are bolted into the hull structure (unbreakable!). Since then I have sepnt about another $900. We are currently using a season old set of sails and she is going great. Just need to keep the mast dry now and polish up the crew work.

The boat is getting a lighter/stiffer centreboard, carbon rudder, carbon Hazelgrove rudder box/tiller, a new set of Walker sails and we are off to the Brisbane Nationals aiming for a top 10 position. See you there!!!!!!!!

.

This gives you some idea of just how cheap and easy it is to get into competitive sailing in Sharpies at the moment. We have a number of cheap and competitive boats for sale around Australia. Just throw us a line on the www.washarpies.com or www.sharpies.com.au websites.

 

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Not trying to start a sh*t fight, just asking an honest question for those that sail Sharpies.

 

Why a Sharpie over a 505?

 

I sailed a Sharpie when I was much younger on an open day at Balmoral and really enjoyed myself, so this is not a "my boat is better than yours" issue, just a genuine question.

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Wowza, that looks good! Would be nice to have those in blighty, sort've poor man's FD, get rid of the 3rd man and make it a 2 person boat. Guess the market for a big 2 man trap and spinny boat would be taken by the Osprey, tho i'm guessing they're not that cheap.

 

Is this the thing of the future, bang per buck and all that. True if you want ultimate balls out performance then buy your 14 or moth, but maybe for a fraction of the price you could have relatively high performance sailing an over powered box that was dirt cheap to build in the first place. It looks a bit like a GP14 that's been on steroids for a while

 

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looks like a narrow lightning with a trapeze.

 

And a bigger chute, and a flexy rig

 

I would definitely like to give them a try, how difficult do you think it would be to start a class of of them here in the southeastern US?

 

:rolleyes:

 

FB- Doug

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Not trying to start a sh*t fight, just asking an honest question for those that sail Sharpies.

 

Why a Sharpie over a 505?

 

I sailed a Sharpie when I was much younger on an open day at Balmoral and really enjoyed myself, so this is not a "my boat is better than yours" issue, just a genuine question.

 

Shit load cheaper to campaign and be competitive.

 

Not trying to start a sh*t fight, just asking an honest question for those that sail Sharpies.

 

Why a Sharpie over a 505?

 

I sailed a Sharpie when I was much younger on an open day at Balmoral and really enjoyed myself, so this is not a "my boat is better than yours" issue, just a genuine question.

 

Shit load cheaper to campaign and be competitive.

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Er, I think you have completely missed the point. Who cares if a 14 is a few knots faster.

If you want to go fast, just go windsurfing or moth sailing.

Sharpies are about being able to put a $10k boat in the water and compete at a very high level.

There are $5k boats out there that are very fast.

 

I built one when I was about 17. Then saw the light & got into 14's. I was at their last Nationals. They have slowed down (the guys that is). Some of those blokes still sailing them where sailing them when I was in 14's, and that was 30 odd years ago. And they can't drink like they used to.

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Exactly what I want.

Because I'm in ireland the only decent youth fleet we have left is the various laser rigs, I like racing with a crew!

She's a fuckin awesome sailor and having her on the boat would improve my sailing a bunch.

But no.

Thanks ISA

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Anyone who has sailed at a competitive level in 14's will realise that Johnny has missed the whole point of this thread (again) - cheap, competitive, sailing.

A $10,000 14 footer is going to be at the back of the fleet no matter how good you are whereas a $10,000 sharpie is easily capable of winning at Nationals Level.

I have owned 3 x 14's so I do have some experience on this matter, and is why I am no longer sailing 14's.

Sailing is becoming less and less accessable due to cost and it is something we seriously need to look at if we want it to prosper as a sport.

You just won't get it until you have sailed a Sharpie in a Nationals. Any boat in the top half of the fleet is capable of winning races.

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Anyone who has sailed at a competitive level in 14's will realise that Johnny has missed the whole point of this thread (again) - cheap, competitive, sailing.

A $10,000 14 footer is going to be at the back of the fleet no matter how good you are whereas a $10,000 sharpie is easily capable of winning at Nationals Level.

I have owned 3 x 14's so I do have some experience on this matter, and is why I am no longer sailing 14's.

Sailing is becoming less and less accessable due to cost and it is something we seriously need to look at if we want it to prosper as a sport.

You just won't get it until you have sailed a Sharpie in a Nationals. Any boat in the top half of the fleet is capable of winning races.

 

Anyone who has sailed both 14's & Sharpies at a competitive level will know that there has always been a lot of "shitstirring" between the 2 classes. You may not understand that, but the Sharpie & 14' "old boys' who frequent this place do.

 

 

 

Anyway, 14's are faster! What say you Joffa?

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Well played.....and yes..... it has been going on for as long as I've been around ( and the reason I originally got into 14's in the first place).

The I14 is a fantastic boat and great fun, but lets not confuse the poor peeps by letting them think you can go buy an older generation 14 and be anywhere near competitive, coz it simply doesn't happen.

With Sharpies, you can buy an ex-national champ boat for $10k that is still capable of winning a Nationals.

.

and besided.....Sharpies are not what you would call slow either .......check this......yeehar!

post-38944-047694200 1298523711_thumb.jpg

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Anyone who has sailed at a competitive level in 14's will realise that Johnny has missed the whole point of this thread (again) - cheap, competitive, sailing.

A $10,000 14 footer is going to be at the back of the fleet no matter how good you are whereas a $10,000 sharpie is easily capable of winning at Nationals Level.

I have owned 3 x 14's so I do have some experience on this matter, and is why I am no longer sailing 14's.

Sailing is becoming less and less accessable due to cost and it is something we seriously need to look at if we want it to prosper as a sport.

You just won't get it until you have sailed a Sharpie in a Nationals. Any boat in the top half of the fleet is capable of winning races.

 

Anyone who has sailed both 14's & Sharpies at a competitive level will know that there has always been a lot of "shitstirring" between the 2 classes. You may not understand that, but the Sharpie & 14' "old boys' who frequent this place do.

 

 

 

Anyway, 14's are faster! What say you Joffa?

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Poida , you need to get your head out of your ass mate ,

The top performing W.A i14 at the nats was over10 years old, 14kgs over weight and would probabley sell for 7 grand fully rigged . Ben Austin came 7th in the worlds in a 2nd hand bieker 3 which he paid 8 grand for . Yes 14's have gotten expensive , I'll be the 1st one to agree with that , but the beauty about them is if you're a good sailor , you can win in an old cheap boat too . Buy the way , Peter Chappel's boat may be 20 years old but I bet It is the most expensive boat in sharpie history . I have not seen a cheap sharpie at the top of the fleet ever . Yes a cheap sharpie will be compeditive with a cheap sharpie , As will a cheap 14 is compedetive with a cheap 14 . So mate , put that little rag of a spinnaker of yours up , sit on the gunnel and look bored as you always do .

 

Sharpies have there place in the sailing community........the old peoples home , retirement villages , etc , etc .

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Poida , you need to get your head out of your ass mate ,

The top performing W.A i14 at the nats was over10 years old, 14kgs over weight and would probabley sell for 7 grand fully rigged . Ben Austin came 7th in the worlds in a 2nd hand bieker 3 which he paid 8 grand for . Yes 14's have gotten expensive , I'll be the 1st one to agree with that , but the beauty about them is if you're a good sailor , you can win in an old cheap boat too . Buy the way , Peter Chappel's boat may be 20 years old but I bet It is the most expensive boat in sharpie history . I have not seen a cheap sharpie at the top of the fleet ever . Yes a cheap sharpie will be compeditive with a cheap sharpie , As will a cheap 14 is compedetive with a cheap 14 . So mate , put that little rag of a spinnaker of yours up , sit on the gunnel and look bored as you always do .

 

Sharpies have there place in the sailing community........the old peoples home , retirement villages , etc , etc .

 

So, what exactly are you trying to say here?

;)

 

It sounds like we need to start exporting Flying Scots to down under, if you think the Sharpie is a boat for old fogies.

 

FB- Doug

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You are right. 14's are super cheap to own and operate. I must have been spending all my money on crack when I was sailing them.

 

 

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I didn't say 14's are super cheap , in fact I said they are getting to expensive (read the post)..........what I said was you can be compeditive at a national and world level in a 14 for around 10k If you are a good sailor. Just defending the class from your uninformed rant .

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Wowza, that looks good! Would be nice to have those in blighty, sort've poor man's FD,

 

lot's of fellas here went on to FD's from Sharpies back in the day....you blokes must have had the old 12sq mtre sharpies at some point. Lightweight Sharpies are their sensible younger sister.

 

Skipper and sheet hand need goggles....forward hands need to be gorillas. Holding onto the flattie on a reach was an arm lengthening experience when there were Olympic triangles.

 

as far as cost...even back then they were great bang for the buck. still remember sitting on Peelgranes front lawn as kids watching he and big John Pink rebuild Eleanor Rigby....Mark had picked her up for next to nothing after she was chopped in half by a ferry. She won a little bit that boat. Cheapest multi-National Champion ever?

 

he used to tease Ronnie Mason about the amount of money he had spent on Tantivy. Their battles on any given Sunday were epic....both blokes wound tighter than drums....great boats, blokes and crews...our little group of VJ sailors were so in awe of them and their speed.

 

great boats...thanks for the thread

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I have both a sharpie and a I14, your right you can be competitive in a 10k I14, but to win a sharpie nats, if you brought a solid hull for 1000 bucks with all the running gear, spend 3-4k on it bringing the total to 5k you will have more than a good enough package to win the nationals. V745 won a heat at the nationals by 7mins at black rock and that boat would have had no more than 5k spent on it and is also nearly 30 years old. I 14s are good and a solid class, its a massive buzz to sail in a world champs and it serves a purpose for sure. Out of all the skiff classes they are the best in my opinion.

 

I love sharpies though, at this years nationals we rented a house in black rock with another junior crew, making it 6 blokes under 21 in baysie melbourne for 2 weeks running amok, not to mention all the people coming through and the awesome atmosphere at the club. I would say 30-40% of the sailors sailing at the last nationals were under 25 which made it awesome. Basically we were living the dream, biggest 2 weeks of our lives a sh*tload of piss later and top class racing. Also I got more of a buzz out of sailing in 25knots on a sharpie than on an I14, they come alive in those conditions.

 

Both good classes, I will still endevour to get to a 14 regatta here and there and maybe even the worlds but just a preference and i can tell you now sharpies are rising in a big way, NSW is booming, WA is on fire, the Vics are trying to get everything sorted and people are very keen on the class. the next 5 to 10 years are gonna be unbelievable so get on the bus and enjoy the ride.

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So what are the dimensions of these Sharpies, all i've been able to deduce from the class web site is that they're 19ft 8ins long. They look awfully narrow but maybe they're not or maybe that's why they need 3 crew because lack of leverage. What sort've sail area has it? You would have thought that with its reputed speed it would have gone asymmetric by now, the symmetrical kite does sort've look a bit antiquated on an ultra high performance boat... but what do i know?

 

DSC_0439.jpg

 

What would its PY be, compared to, say, a 505 or Fireball to give us colonisers an idea of performance.

 

Great looking boat :)

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So what are the dimensions of these Sharpies, all i've been able to deduce from the class web site is that they're 19ft 8ins long. They look awfully narrow but maybe they're not or maybe that's why they need 3 crew because lack of leverage. What sort've sail area has it? You would have thought that with its reputed speed it would have gone asymmetric by now, the symmetrical kite does sort've look a bit antiquated on an ultra high performance boat... but what do i know?

 

DSC_0439.jpg

 

What would its PY be, compared to, say, a 505 or Fireball to give us colonisers an idea of performance.

 

Great looking boat :)

 

VYC yardstick of a Sharpie is 95, 505 is 97.5 and a Fireball ball is 101.

The three man crew is a need for a better shout at the bar after the race.

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So what are the dimensions of these Sharpies, all i've been able to deduce from the class web site is that they're 19ft 8ins long. They look awfully narrow but maybe they're not or maybe that's why they need 3 crew because lack of leverage. What sort've sail area has it? You would have thought that with its reputed speed it would have gone asymmetric by now, the symmetrical kite does sort've look a bit antiquated on an ultra high performance boat... but what do i know?

 

DSC_0439.jpg

 

What would its PY be, compared to, say, a 505 or Fireball to give us colonisers an idea of performance.

 

Great looking boat :)

LW Sharpies did exist in the "Old Country" (Pommieland). Hayling Island rings a bell. Portsmouth yardstick just under FDs. Better than 505s & Fireballs.

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As part of development testing we have tried assy kites on bowsprit, roachy mains and discussed 2 handed sailing.

 

The assy kites were good fun on a reach, and probably better for VMG downwind on a windy day, but kind of irrelevant. The skinny hulls are easily driven and we tend to sail relatively deep angles downwind where a conventional kite works fine. The beauty of sailing deeper angles is that it bunches the fleet up more as the gust lines come through. We have seen numerous classes swap to assy kites and all of a sugged have huge speration, removing a lot of the tactical possibilities. The conventional kites also allow a boat to go deep and soaking down below another boat ahead possible, which is almost impossible with an assy. I would also suggest the conventional kites also allow a wide range of sailing weights to be carried, so again, a much more tactical and flexible setup. With an assy, there is only a small range of angles to sail downwind so once everybody is on the layline it becomes a game of follow the leader. There is nothing like the action you see with 10 boats simultaneously reaching in or soaking down to all come together at the bottom mark on the same gust.

 

Testing on the roachy main was inconclusive because they used the standard masts. What became clear through was that a much stiffer, more controllable mast was required. This almost certainly means carbon fibre and multiple spreaders which will significantly drive up the cost and complexity of sailing of the boat. We are already fully powered up in 12knots so logically there is going to be little practical benefit with more area. Is is difficult to imagine how this would make the racing closer, and thus low on our priority list at this stage.

 

Two handed sailing has been considered (6 blokes = 3 boats instead of 2) but because the hull is quite narrow and we are already quite easily powered up, we need the weight at the moment. Having 3 crew also allows more flexibility in the weight distribution. Most importantly, juniors can get involved and be immediately competitive at a light weight. Plus, as stated in an earlier email, buying rounds in 3's makes for a better night. Plus, at some point, tradition steps in.

 

So, the priorities on considering boat modifications are;

- close racing with high level of tactics

- wide range of weight crew able to be competitive

- initial cost of the boat

- depreciation

- ability for juniors to be competitive

 

Carbon spin poles are beign tested and will probably fly simply because they are cheaper than alloy ones now.

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They are a boat that really needs 10 knots plus to show their best. A 505 can sail away from them in 7 knots. They wouldn't work in East Coast US but SF Bay would be brilliant.

 

Prominent AC identity Grant Simmer was Australian sharpie champion a while back. 1975 maybe ?

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The list of international champions and AC champions that have sailed in the class are endless. They are a very unique boat, no need to go assy and follow the rest of the boats, at the moment it provides a unique alternative to everything on the market. Closest thing is a 505, they are quite expensive but are also good for the international scene. We have some 505 blokes that sail against us in NSW they are top 3 in Aus and the top NSW boats still beat them round the track, but they are quite a close match. 3 people on the boat are great for the social side, basically when we get 80 to 100 boats to nationals (this will happen again in the next 2-3 years with QLD, SA, WA and NSW all looking at drawing good numbers and the vics bolstering again) you can easily have around 600 people hanging around the regatta with all the families and "groupies" haha, great party and most importantly world class racing on the race course.

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The list of international champions and AC champions that have sailed in the class are endless. They are a very unique boat, no need to go assy and follow the rest of the boats, at the moment it provides a unique alternative to everything on the market. Closest thing is a 505, they are quite expensive but are also good for the international scene. We have some 505 blokes that sail against us in NSW they are top 3 in Aus and the top NSW boats still beat them round the track, but they are quite a close match. 3 people on the boat are great for the social side, basically when we get 80 to 100 boats to nationals (this will happen again in the next 2-3 years with QLD, SA, WA and NSW all looking at drawing good numbers and the vics bolstering again) you can easily have around 600 people hanging around the regatta with all the families and "groupies" haha, great party and most importantly world class racing on the race course.

 

Don't hold your breath. Don't like to rain on your parade but those days are long gone.

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Cannot wait to prove you wrong (not having a go by the way), weekends 5th/6th and 12th/13th feb this year, over 80 different sharpies raced accross australia in either state championships or association events. Guess time will tell.... With an attitude like that nothin will happen and might as well give up. Just gotta look back and see why this thread was started i guess, 28 boats at a WA state titles, with a follow up article saying they are aiming for 40 next year. Many people are working pretty hard amongst the states to get this going again. Im having fun anyway haha

 

 

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Is Peter Van Vught still involved in the Sharpies? Ex Largs Bay SC

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Agreed. That negative attitude is exactly why sailing as a sport in general has diminished so badly in the first place. It's amazing what a positive attitude and a bit of hard work can do.

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Also unsure as to how the days are long gone, when we had 80 boats at the largs bay nationals 4 years ago? Anyway, lets keep moving forward..... haha

 

 

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The design is 1930ish. You guys refused to bring the class into this century with fat head bigger mains, assy kites, maybe 2 wires, redesigned centreboards & rudders that are still the same shape as the original steel plates of 80 years ago. Maybe even 15-20 kilo lighter hulls. When was the last one built? Is anyone still building them? Even the old die-hard Sharpie guys at the Rock at Xmas were saying they need to get into this century.

 

I hope the class doesn't fade away like all the other great classes that have disappeared - VJ, Gwen 12, come to mind as big classes at one time that did not look to the future..

 

EDIT I'll tell you what's negative attitude. Watching the class fade away when it is in YOUR power to rejuvenate it and prolong it's life.

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I reckon the best thing about having a Sharpie is the third spot on the boat.

 

2 people can sail a Sharpie competitively in light winds, so you can put an inexperienced third on and still have great racing. We did this regularly a few season ago and it was a real buzz to see the excitement from the novice when they found themselves winning a few races.

 

We did tend to bias using to using attractive women in the role, so we had a good time too.

 

Seriously though, having three makes it so much easier to bring people through in the sport. They are a great boat.

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Just a little observation on the suggestion to cut down weight.

 

It wouldn't be possible to reduce the weight of a Sharpie by very much without going into carbon, pre preg, vacuum bagging and all that other fancy and expensive boat building stuff. Most dinghy classes like to keep it cheap and cheerful so that guys on a budget can still compete. Forcing everyone into high tech hulls might really slash class numbers.

 

As it is they put 3 crew on the water at a racing weight pretty similar to the weight of a 505 or 470. A Sharpie weighs 90 kg without rig and foils. A rigged 470 weighs 90 kg ex sails and a 505 127 kg. The racing weight of the three classes would be fairly close and the Sharpie is easily the biggest boat. They are heaps lighter than a FD which is 130 kg unrigged.

 

They do need more power for the 5 - 10 knot range so the roachy main might be just the trick.

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Just a little observation on the suggestion to cut down weight.

 

It wouldn't be possible to reduce the weight of a Sharpie by very much without going into carbon, pre preg, vacuum bagging and all that other fancy and expensive boat building stuff. Most dinghy classes like to keep it cheap and cheerful so that guys on a budget can still compete. Forcing everyone into high tech hulls might really slash class numbers.

 

As it is they put 3 crew on the water at a racing weight pretty similar to the weight of a 505 or 470. A Sharpie weighs 90 kg without rig and foils. A rigged 470 weighs 90 kg ex sails and a 505 127 kg. The racing weight of the three classes would be fairly close and the Sharpie is easily the biggest boat. They are heaps lighter than a FD which is 130 kg unrigged.

 

They do need more power for the 5 - 10 knot range so the roachy main might be just the trick.

 

About 20 odd years ago I did some work on a brand new Sharpie for a guy who will remain nameless. I had to build up the weight by about 15-20 kilo by various class legal means. Not as easy as you might think. That boat had kevlar in it. No carbon. Could have been sailed a lot lighter than the class weight.

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Think i know the boat your talking about. I wonder if kevlar is being used in the new boats or just maxing the carbon out?

 

The design is 1930ish. You guys refused to bring the class into this century with fat head bigger mains, assy kites, maybe 2 wires, redesigned centreboards & rudders that are still the same shape as the original steel plates of 80 years ago. Maybe even 15-20 kilo lighter hulls. When was the last one built? Is anyone still building them? Even the old die-hard Sharpie guys at the Rock at Xmas were saying they need to get into this century.

 

I hope the class doesn't fade away like all the other great classes that have disappeared - VJ, Gwen 12, come to mind as big classes at one time that did not look to the future..

 

EDIT I'll tell you what's negative attitude. Watching the class fade away when it is in YOUR power to rejuvenate it and prolong it's life.

 

 

 

Ok no worries mate, nothing what you have said is wrong, except the negative attitude by us to rejuvenate what is already still up there as the strongest high performance boat in australia, yes national numbers over the last 3 years may not represent that but boat registration and state title representation does.

 

Ill just point out a couple of things, you may or may not be aware of:

 

- 16 New boats have been built since 07 season

- South Australia has recently re-built their moulds which have changed the cockpit layout and structual layout of the boat, quite a few new boats are being built now and in the not too distant future.

- At the moment carbon poles and booms are being trialled and as stated previously will probably get up

- Carbon masts and the big main are still not far from peoples minds and are still being trialled in some states.

 

- Assy kites have already been discussed on this forum, no need for them really, the class offers a uniqueness as well as high performance

- 2 wires were trialled when my grandpa was sailing and didnt get up to as to allow versatility in the weight of crew people could carry

- Plates and rudders havent changed and to be honest the boat is efficent enough anyway, there are still not that many boats that can touch a sharpie uphill in a blow and even in the moderate

 

The 505 is still very popular worldwide and it is not that much different to a sharpie, so these types of boats still have a lot of appeal

 

Now you also seem to know a fair bit about sailing, so you will know that if you change everything at once and make a superboat, then we will lose 95% of our fleet. The sharpie has rules in place in its constitution so this cant happen, changes can only happen every 5 years or so and there are other criteria involved as well, so yeah we are trialling things and as long as everybody in the association is happy they will go through.

 

We will continue to improve the boat and the class is on the move I can assure you of that.

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there are still not that many boats that can touch a sharpie uphill in a blow and even in the moderate

Seriously?

 

18s.. 16s.. 14s.. 12s... 49ers... Moths...

 

and probably 13s... 29ers... Cherubs... etc etc

 

 

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Seriously?

 

18s.. 16s.. 14s.. 12s... 49ers... Moths...

 

and probably 13s... 29ers... Cherubs... etc etc

 

 

 

We have sailed away from 16s a couple of times on sydney harbour uphill in about 18knots, even a 14 if they are really overpowered.

 

cherubs def not anywhere near a sharpie uphill especially cherubs (quick as downwind though)

 

13s are a top boat and in a blow can also get near a 16 at times upwind

 

29ers are about on par in anything up to 15-18knots then a sharpie will start to get away from them a bit.

 

even a 12 upwind we can prob match at times especially in waves and a wind. But 18s, 12s, 14s, 49ers moths and 16s have always been quicker than a sharpie anyway but upwind in a blow can def match it with quicker boats. Not an sledgin at all, just looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the classes. Sharpies have their conditions they come into their own and so do the skiffs.

 

But yeah in a blow and waves the extra set of hands comes in handy and a bit more weight helps over things like a 505 and a fireball.

 

Its all relative, and the bang for buck thing is always good especially for me coz im broke haha,

 

all the classes are great and have their own individual niche, just dont dismiss the sharpie

 

 

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Seriously?

 

18s.. 16s.. 14s.. 12s... 49ers... Moths...

 

and probably 13s... 29ers... Cherubs... etc etc

 

 

 

We have sailed away from 16s a couple of times on sydney harbour uphill in about 18knots, even a 14 if they are really overpowered.

 

cherubs def not anywhere near a sharpie uphill especially cherubs (quick as downwind though)

 

13s are a top boat and in a blow can also get near a 16 at times upwind

 

29ers are about on par in anything up to 15-18knots then a sharpie will start to get away from them a bit.

 

even a 12 upwind we can prob match at times especially in waves and a wind. But 18s, 12s, 14s, 49ers moths and 16s have always been quicker than a sharpie anyway but upwind in a blow can def match it with quicker boats. Not an sledgin at all, just looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the classes. Sharpies have their conditions they come into their own and so do the skiffs.

 

But yeah in a blow and waves the extra set of hands comes in handy and a bit more weight helps over things like a 505 and a fireball.

 

Its all relative, and the bang for buck thing is always good especially for me coz im broke haha,

 

all the classes are great and have their own individual niche, just dont dismiss the sharpie

 

I don't know how old you are but I've been around long enough to have seen many classes fade away and disappear because the guys sailing/controlling them refused to let them advance with the times & modern materials.

 

To quote you......

Now you also seem to know a fair bit about sailing, so you will know that if you change everything at once and make a superboat, then we will lose 95% of our fleet.

Didn't the Sharpie guys do just that about 1960 with the first Lightweights? (I was there - they certainly did) And the 14's with the amalgamation of the Aus & Int 14 that outdated ALL Int 14's instantly. Then there is the foiling Moth - stronger now than they have been for years.

 

My father built the 1st 12 Square metre in Melbourne about 1938 and he said the LW might not be a good idea - but he still helped me put my LW together back then.

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Yeah pretty young mate, grandpa was involved over in the west with the first lightweights. I guess i just like sailing them and it is pretty sweet sailing skiffs but I always come back to the sharpie and there is a heap of good work being done by the states at the moment. So cant be knocked, gettin a good mix of juniors/girls involved now so thats half the battle and we are education them in the culture haha. look at 505s for an example though, still an extremely popular boat around the world and not a lot different to the sharpie, they have carbon booms and poles which we are going for, so we provide a good alternative to the market. Or we could just blend in with the skiff scene get big mains a second trap, 2 rigs and become an oversized 16? why? Thats why the 16 exists to fill that niche and they do it well. I believe the association is doing a great job at the moment and can only go forward. lot of hard work ahead but we are already seeing divedends from th ground up.

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Mr Johnysaint, What is your motive here? We've about had enough of your negative comments. Go bash on the laser thread if you hate the world.

This thread was designed to illustrate how good the Sharpie is as an all-rounder and how a sailor can thow a few grand at a boat and be quite competitive.

There are not many other classes you can do that in. This is one of the main reasons the class is still strong. In this respect, you continue to miss the point.

Of course the boat will continue to be developed in a controlled manner, with all things considered (including cost and existing boat depreciation). To ignore depreciation would be the death of the class.

The new carbon poles we are testing have been approved simply because they are cheaper than alloy ones and only offer a very marginal improvement in performance over old boats.

I don't profess to be a particularly brilliant sailor but I have owned Cherubs, Moths, and 14's and left these classes simply because the cost of staying at a competitive level was getting way out of control.

I pay the bills and given the option, I'll be spending my hard earned coin on the Sharpie class.

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hey fellas...is there a list of national champs over the years somewhere online? had a look at the Sharpie sight and could find nothing.

 

question for ya's...which boat has won the most titles. thought it was Eleanor Rigby for a long time as i believe she won a few before MP rebuilt her. may have been surpassed since but i think the boat had 6 wins?

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Mr Johnysaint, What is your motive here? We've about had enough of your negative comments. Go bash on the laser thread if you hate the world.

This thread was designed to illustrate how good the Sharpie is as an all-rounder and how a sailor can thow a few grand at a boat and be quite competitive.

There are not many other classes you can do that in. This is one of the main reasons the class is still strong. In this respect, you continue to miss the point.

Of course the boat will continue to be developed in a controlled manner, with all things considered (including cost and existing boat depreciation). To ignore depreciation would be the death of the class.

The new carbon poles we are testing have been approved simply because they are cheaper than alloy ones and only offer a very marginal improvement in performance over old boats.

I don't profess to be a particularly brilliant sailor but I have owned Cherubs, Moths, and 14's and left these classes simply because the cost of staying at a competitive level was getting way out of control.

I pay the bills and given the option, I'll be spending my hard earned coin on the Sharpie class.

 

Its just who he is Poida. JS cannot help but criticize all things on these threads. Some people are just born that way best option is to ignore him and he soon goes away.

 

You guys over in WA keep into Cousin Brett and get him to come to Brisbane. Tell him house and baby's are over rated!

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Will keep on cuz. Would be a shame if he doesn't make it home for the Nats. So far we definitely have one container full coming over. Working on another.

 

 

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8 NSW boats are already booked in for QLD with a couple more possible, looking like a big nats on the way. yeeew cant wait. Also not sure which boat i thought there was a list on the national site but checked and not there, I think Cuneo has won the most as a person but not sure of which boat.

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8 NSW boats are already booked in for QLD with a couple more possible, looking like a big nats on the way. yeeew cant wait. Also not sure which boat i thought there was a list on the national site but checked and not there, I think Cuneo has won the most as a person but not sure of which boat.

 

Cuneo won the Gold in Melbourne in 56. Not sure of his light weight record but was a awesome sailor in his day.

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8 NSW boats are already booked in for QLD with a couple more possible, looking like a big nats on the way. yeeew cant wait. Also not sure which boat i thought there was a list on the national site but checked and not there, I think Cuneo has won the most as a person but not sure of which boat.

 

Cuneo won the Gold in Melbourne in 56. Not sure of his light weight record but was a awesome sailor in his day.

 

Wrong! Can't remember who won gold but Cuneo wasn't even in it. Tasker won silver. Results board is still on display at RMYS so somebody may be able to find out. - or google it.

 

Poida. I've sailed Sharpies - as I said previously. I don't want to see the class fade away - as I said previously. But if you guys don't move with the times, it will die like all the other classes where the guys took the path you currently are. Head in the sand. Don't change anything. She'll be right. Just as well they didn't do that in 1960 - or you'ld be stuck in something else.

 

EDIT Peter Mander from NZ - on the last race if memory serves

 

Edit again. Historical results

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I can handle being wrong about the gold but he was still one hell of sailor.

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I can handle being wrong about the gold but he was still one hell of sailor.

Never said he wasn't. And he did win gold - in Dragons at Munich 1972.

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I love the look of the Sharpie, it would be great to have some in the UK ! :)

 

Has the hull shape changed much from the traditional sharpie ? , are all boats now made of GRP?

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Seriously?

 

18s.. 16s.. 14s.. 12s... 49ers... Moths...

 

and probably 13s... 29ers... Cherubs... etc etc

 

 

 

We have sailed away from 16s a couple of times on sydney harbour uphill in about 18knots, even a 14 if they are really overpowered.

 

cherubs def not anywhere near a sharpie uphill especially cherubs (quick as downwind though)

 

13s are a top boat and in a blow can also get near a 16 at times upwind

 

29ers are about on par in anything up to 15-18knots then a sharpie will start to get away from them a bit.

 

even a 12 upwind we can prob match at times especially in waves and a wind. But 18s, 12s, 14s, 49ers moths and 16s have always been quicker than a sharpie anyway but upwind in a blow can def match it with quicker boats. Not an sledgin at all, just looking at the strengths and weaknesses of the classes. Sharpies have their conditions they come into their own and so do the skiffs.

 

But yeah in a blow and waves the extra set of hands comes in handy and a bit more weight helps over things like a 505 and a fireball.

 

Its all relative, and the bang for buck thing is always good especially for me coz im broke haha,

 

all the classes are great and have their own individual niche, just dont dismiss the sharpie

 

Mate agree with alot of what you have said here, but were you out for the latest heats of the states at Balmoral? Sunday 20+ knots, 3 505's started a minute behind, by the second bottom mark the leading 5oh had quite a large lead on the next Sharpie, I think we did a fair amount of the damage upwind but definitely quicker down hill, I couldn't help but laugh when we came up behind Shorty on the second reach, we were on edge with main ragging and well of laying the bottom mark, Shorty's sheet hand was still pumping the main trying to surf! Don't think the extra weight was coming in handy there, bore away a bit more and went through to leeward. Awesome days sailing and the Sharpies and the 5ohs should do more of it together.

 

I would not worry about 12's uphill, I reckon in most breezes the Sharpie would have a better VMG as would the 5oh, but down hill, well lets not go there!

 

Some of the 16's are of a pretty low standard on the Harbour, have spent too many North Easters crossing tacks with some while sailing my Tasar! The middle of the fleet upwards would be hard to beat.

 

18's, forget it, never getting close, foiling moths, well we nearly ran over Rob S on Saturday while 2 sail reaching...... Granted, he wasn't foiling, but I'll take what i can get! :P

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I love the look of the Sharpie, it would be great to have some in the UK ! :)

 

Has the hull shape changed much from the traditional sharpie ? , are all boats now made of GRP?

 

Yeah, another class in the UK would go perfectly well with that hole in your head!!! Yes, a different horse for a different cause but seriously, you need a cull! :lol:

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Will keep on cuz. Would be a shame if he doesn't make it home for the Nats. So far we definitely have one container full coming over. Working on another.

 

 

Well thats great to here that you WA guys have at least one container comming maybe 2 when i was at Blackrock Nationals this year the boys were not comming to Qld nationals.

 

Les.

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Johnnysaint im done mate, your bein negative and continually missing the point.

 

yes tasker won the silver in 56' never sailed a lightweight. Cuneo was a great sailor in his day goin by his record.

 

Windward Mark, agree with you mate, downwill a 505 is quicker than a sharpie. the harbour was a washing machine (didnt feel like 20+ but apparentyl it was according to the weather site) that day to and was hard coordinating the third person, going into windward all the time. didnt realise you started a minute behind us, I know we were mid fleet in the sharpies and we were sailing around 1 505 all day. But Dazza and danny were up there and the bloke who won on sunday arvo was a fair way ahead I believe. But having said that as well in the first series of our states the 50's started off scratch against us and in a 25-30kt nor easter and Mr.freeze missed the start by 5 mins and won by 2mins and 3 sharpies beat the 50h that day.

 

So overall I would call it a draw haha, both sweet boats though, but $$ can be an issue sometimes. quite a few crossover sharpie 505 crews lining up in the hammo worlds. be interesting to see how the aussies go.

 

Really looking forward to the RQ nationals, word is also Tassie might have between 7-10 boats sailing in swansea this weekend another awesome positive. well done to camel and the lads for organising that

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well we nearly ran over Rob S on Saturday while 2 sail reaching...... Granted, he wasn't foiling, but I'll take what i can get! :P

 

lol yes you did nearly run over me, scared the crap outta me when you came up behind me like that. I wasnt sure if I should head up to try foil, or jybe away... or go straight and trust you not to hit me =)

 

Pretty impressive if the sharpies can get 70+ boats to a nationals, not many aus classes can manage that.

 

How much does a new sharpie cost btw?

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As with many new boats, it's more to do with how much you want to spend. Brand new boats are probably between $25k and $40k depending on how deep your pockets are, but there are some very solid second hand boats around now. No idea if it costs more to use the new moulds as opposed to the old ones.

WA908 Wise Magic sold for little over $10k and could happily win a Nationals in the right hands. $5k would still get you a nice boat.

I got lucky and spent $1k for 805 that is still down to weight, solid as a brick shithouse and fairly well set up. At some point I'll be building new or picking up a nice second handie.

I think it's crucial to have cheap older boats that are still fairly competitive to allow people to get into the class. Careful management of class development is key to managing depreciation.

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I don't know how old you are but I've been around long enough to have seen many classes fade away and disappear because the guys sailing/controlling them refused to let them advance with the times & modern materials.

 

Johnny How do you explain the demise of classes like Javelins and Skates which did make the modernising changes?

The Mirror class is another good example of class rules fiddling. New rig, bigger kite, fibreglass construction etc- now the class is basically dead in this country. It was the biggest OTB class for many years.

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Edit again. Historical results

 

perfect JS. thanks. it's all coming back...Eleanor Rigby was Crescendo VII when she was cut in two....have a feeling she was also Daring III first. Anyone know if Cuneos boat was all gaboon with cedar trim?

 

the results show the demise of the NSW fleet in the late 70's. Used to be 15 plus boats at PHOSC alone....regattas would see 30 plus at times. Good fun at Wonga Road

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I have just had a look at the list posted by JS. Not only is Cuneo the most wins at 7 but he was also the last Queenslander to have won it in 1965.

He is also the only Queenslander to have won it at all!

 

Many have been close but still no cigar. I smell conspiricyph34r.gif.

 

 

 

 

 

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Good incentive for the QLD fleet to have a real crack at it this year. In Hobart 2 years ago an interstate won in Tasmania for the 1st time in 25 years, could this be QLD turn to put themselves on the map again. 1965 is a long time ago..

 

Haha, my gramps always tells me stories of how some states used to teams race to get their No. 1 team rep over the line, and they got pretty fired upabout it too, haha. I think QLD and SA had a bit of rivalry back then. Good stuff though, nothin like a rumble to fire everyone up haha.

 

There are a couple of NSW guys maybe looking at upgrading to a brand new shapie soon, but at the moment are stoked with getting a boat for $6k, Mr. Freeze N885 for example was brought for a similar price (spent nothing on it) and came 7th at the hobart nationals and spent a lot of time in the top 5. If you have a solid boat a good cockpit set up and a good rig you will be as competitive as you want provided you put it in the right direction. You will prob see some new boats being built soon, but over the last few years the 2nd hand market has been way too good, and with a turnover of boats people can always get their hands on competitive boats.

 

 

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the Sharpie had the "flattie" back then.

 

Sharpie with flattie was pretty even tight reaching in big breeze against the 18's as well. As soon as the course was a bit more downhill as you say...18's gone

 

Wire luffs in the flatties...rope/wire braces. yikes

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the Sharpie had the "flattie" back then.

 

Sharpie with flattie was pretty even tight reaching in big breeze against the 18's as well. As soon as the course was a bit more downhill as you say...18's gone

 

Wire luffs in the flatties...rope/wire braces. yikes

Most of these guys wouldn't know what a flattie was Evo. Probably think it's some sheila with no tits.

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Here is some video of a Sharpie in action. A fun class to sail.

 

Mal Sam and Chis

 

Mal is one of the best dinghy skippers in the country, especially in a big fleet.

 

Sam is a mind blowingly good sheet hand.

 

never sailed with Chis, always against him. Good bloke, one of my favourites actually and he is always at the pointy end of the fleet.

 

Mal and Chis will be at the 505 Worlds and they havent done any training so will be interested to see how they go.

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3 of a kind regatta on the weekend. (3 boats from each class racing against other classes on handicap).

Very interesting to see how the difference classes faired against each other in light wind conditions. Seemed to be a good indicator of hull/foil/sail efficiency. 49ers streaked away while the 14's dogged along with their hooked mains and draggy rudder foils. Even sharpies were passing 14's upwind for crist sakes. Sharpies probably would have won on handicap had the wind not completely died in the arse for the last two boats in the team.

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Poida

What about the two blokes drinkin piss, sailing two up on the weekend

They were Quick, did they give you a floggen

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Any boat could have won in those conditions, but the lack of a third crew didn't seem to have any effect on boat speed to be honest. If there was any advantage in the 1-5 knots we had it was immeasurable. It was all about going the right way and getting the little (tiny) lines of wind. Impact was literally only 50m ahead of us at one point downwind, got a tiny line of wind and pulled out half a leg, then managed to get around the top mark just as the last big gust of the day came through and pulled out practically a whole leg lead. We rounded the top mark in a drifter and stopped dead. Frustrating, but that's how it is.

Frankly, we threw away the race on the first leg. Went hard right looking for a seabreeze than never came, then got absolutely spanked with a north-west swing.

At least we had the pleasure of sailing past very expensive 14' skiffs upwind on the first leg with a $1,000 shitbox.

 

 

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Also have the GoPro camera at home ready to go, but the SD card has not arrived yet. Looking foward to posting some new sharpie footage.

Do you have a 16GB or 32GB card we can use for the weekend?

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Poida ,

Cam elliott was over 1.5 legs in front of the 1st sharpie...............and was extremley compeditive with the 49ers.........The 49ers won because they are longer , wider , more sail area and had about 100kgs on board . The sharpies were so far behind the fist 14 that he was derigged and on the trailer before the first sharpie came home . Come on mate.....lets rumble....... A race......Your state champ against our state champ . On the river in 5, 10,15 and 20 knots........what say you ......big poof .

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Where did you get 80k from???????? I know...let's just pick a number out of your arse and use that , Or is that what the so called legendary green sharpie has cost over the years.............I think he has spent more than that . Hold on , Im just pulling a figure out of you arse now..............120k . Ouch .

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You need to log onto the mach2 website and ask for a quote . Around 32k will get you a new moth on the water , 36k for a fully rigged i14...fact. It seam pointless trying to inform the old has beens whom now sail sharpies of whats going on in the world . It's like your in a time warp . Like I said , sharpie are great for old people in retirement homes or those talentless people who have failed in other classes . Well ,not all of you . You do have some ok sailor's in there.

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Poida,

 

I thought that might be you stiring the S%#T.

 

Nice footage! Brings back some good memories... Cabot... some things dont change!

 

What editing software are you using? I have some great A-cat (large file)footage from a regatta last weekend that i need to edit, any tips would be great.

 

BTW I14's are quite cool but shouldn't be compared. Each has their place on the river and at the Bar.

 

Cheers Moondog

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Like I said , sharpie are great for old people in retirement homes or those talentless people who have failed in other classes .

 

Yeah good one mate, so getting in the top ten of the 505 pre-worlds regatta at Hammo shows your a shit sailor with no talent and need a walking frame. 6 blokes in that top ten are either part time sharpie (started their sailing in sharpies and still sail them) sailors or have sailed a sharpie regatta in the last 12 months. Also we have been through the fact both classes have thier place and moved on.

 

Also there was probably about 20 blokes sailing at the last nationals under 21, so we obviously have a terminal illness that is aging us 10x faster than the population or you can

 

eat it!!

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You need to log onto the mach2 website and ask for a quote . Around 32k will get you a new moth on the water , 36k for a fully rigged i14...fact. It seam pointless trying to inform the old has beens whom now sail sharpies of whats going on in the world . It's like your in a time warp . Like I said , sharpie are great for old people in retirement homes or those talentless people who have failed in other classes . Well ,not all of you . You do have some ok sailor's in there.

 

Moths are a fair bit cheaper than that.

 

In AU$ :

 

Moth $15k-25k

Sharpie $25-40k

49er $34k

14' $36k

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You also missed out the last sentence .

Apart from your inability to read.........I must say to the sharpie association ,if you have that amount of young guy's comming up in the class , well done . I think it's more the way you run the class than the boat .

Maybe we could learn something from you .

 

ASA , how's your gunnel bum going???????Heaps of skill required to skipper a boat sitting on your ass .

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