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budman

MORC - The REVIVAL!!!

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There’s been some serious buzz as of late with a sizable contingent of MORC boat owners/crew who wish to revive the rule. A core group has come together to work toward this effort with the ultimate (short-term) goal of an organized MORC Mid-winters and/or Nationals, then to follow with a (long-term) goal of sanctioned regional events and an organic revival of the rule reaching to the local level. Fundamental to the effort is establishing a database of MORC boats & owners. The objective is a starting point from which to build an informed MORC community and garner support for racing under the rule. You will be kept apprised of developments geared specifically to MORC racing. Please PM me or email MORCdatabase@hotmail.com with the following details:

 

  • Boat Type
  • Boat Name
  • Contact Person
  • Email
  • Telephone
  • Boat Geo-Location
  • MORC Certificate – Y or N
  • If Y, what year?
  • Comments, if any

There is a lot of work to be done for a bona fide and concerted effort to launch a "revival". A number of people have stepped up to help. If you are interested in getting actively involved, please reply in this thread or PM me.

 

This is a MORC community effort. Please share your constructive comments and suggestions, or connect us with anyone you know who may be interested in this "revival".

 

 

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Sailman has an excel worksheet that he's made using the old handbook. Anyone wanting a copy to get an idea on rating can PM and I will email to you. I will ask him to post the work product in this thread. ALSO - If anyone knows someone who has a measurement program on their comp, please forward contact info.

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Forwarding this to Charleston folks; quite sure they'd love to have a MORC Midwinters Class next year at CRW if you make it happen, and it would be a good national advertisement for the revival.

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Forwarding this to Charleston folks; quite sure they'd love to have a MORC Midwinters Class next year at CRW if you make it happen, and it would be a good national advertisement for the revival.

 

Capo26 had a 2.6meg pdf of MORC stuff to upload. Is there some way to dodge the limit or dispensation? Surely it is more important bandwidth than DaWoody's signatures....

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Forwarding this to Charleston folks; quite sure they'd love to have a MORC Midwinters Class next year at CRW if you make it happen, and it would be a good national advertisement for the revival.

 

Capo26 had a 2.6meg pdf of MORC stuff to upload. Is there some way to dodge the limit or dispensation? Surely it is more important bandwidth than DaWoody's signatures....

 

+1

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Count me in. I would love to see this happen.

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OK, I have a copy of the excel spreadsheet developed by Sailman. He has compared his work product with a MORC few certs and found it to be accurate. You can use it as a guide for the time-being to see where your boat falls in the rating spectrum. I can email if interested - it is over 1 MG, so cannot attach here - PM me. Anyone who has a server to host a link to the file, please contact me.

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Forwarding this to Charleston folks; quite sure they'd love to have a MORC Midwinters Class next year at CRW if you make it happen, and it would be a good national advertisement for the revival.

 

Capo26 had a 2.6meg pdf of MORC stuff to upload. Is there some way to dodge the limit or dispensation? Surely it is more important bandwidth than DaWoody's signatures....

 

Get it to me and I'll deal with it. clean@sailinganarchy.com

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If there's a MORC class at CRW for 2012 I'll committ to bringing our Lindenberg 26 down from NC. That's a long 5 day delivery! No rating, but I'd love to be measured. That's as far as I'd take the boat, or up to Hampton area moving looking north.

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Budman, sent info to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com

 

FWIW I have the 1988 and 1993 MORC handbooks. If there is value in dropping them off at Kinko's and put on a disc just let me know.

 

I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

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Budman, sent info to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com

 

FWIW I have the 1988 and 1993 MORC handbooks. If there is value in dropping them off at Kinko's and put on a disc just let me know.

 

I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

 

Um, WOW! Yes, I would be very, very interested! Especially the 1986 MORC Internationals info!

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So is it worth the hit to pull the inboard out for MORC as it would for PHRF and One Design?On a S2 7.9

I would say it is always worth it to pull the inboard from a small boat.

The MORC ratings for 7.9 seem to range very broadly from about 152 to 188 sec/mi,

and I do not think that inboard vs outboard has that big an impact on the rating.

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Budman, sent info to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com

 

FWIW I have the 1988 and 1993 MORC handbooks. If there is value in dropping them off at Kinko's and put on a disc just let me know.

 

I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

 

I am going to email you a copy of the 1999 handbook. If the illustrations in yours are better . . . then, yes, would be good to get a copy on disk, and email over to me when you can. WHL is re-drawing the illustrations on CAD as best he can but the copy of the 99 handbook we have does not have very good representations. Goal it to get an updated handbook in place as soon as practically possible. Thanks. .

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I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

 

Gad-was that the San Diego one? that would produce flashbacks.

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Budman, sent info to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com

 

FWIW I have the 1988 and 1993 MORC handbooks. If there is value in dropping them off at Kinko's and put on a disc just let me know.

 

I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

 

Um, WOW! Yes, I would be very, very interested! Especially the 1986 MORC Internationals info!

 

 

WOW?

 

Something to read during court recessions?

 

I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

 

Gad-was that the San Diego one? that would produce flashbacks.

 

 

Good. Glad to hear you have them.

 

Now, how 'bout sharing them?

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Budman, sent info to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com

 

FWIW I have the 1988 and 1993 MORC handbooks. If there is value in dropping them off at Kinko's and put on a disc just let me know.

 

I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

 

Um, WOW! Yes, I would be very, very interested! Especially the 1986 MORC Internationals info!

 

 

WOW?

 

Something to read during court recessions?

 

I also have the 1986 MORC International results with with ratings for all entries.

 

Gad-was that the San Diego one? that would produce flashbacks.

 

 

Good. Glad to hear you have them.

 

Now, how 'bout sharing them?

 

+1

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Yup..Sandy Eggo 1986 Morc Internationals.

 

Im happy to email after I scan them or will post everything here if someone can tell me how to attach the file without getting "file too big" to upload message.

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Anybody know the whereabouts of the G&S designed Mariah 27s? We raced one on the great lakes and did the 89 internationals in Sarnia. The only one I've see reference to is Lizzie B (was this the old Pigs At Sea?).

 

I've always been partial to the G&S boats, starting with the 7.9, then the mariah's.

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Good. Glad to hear you have them.

 

Now, how 'bout sharing them?

 

3 words:

 

Ti

A

Juana

 

shall I go on?

 

Ouch!

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Anybody know the whereabouts of the G&S designed Mariah 27s? We raced one on the great lakes and did the 89 internationals in Sarnia. The only one I've see reference to is Lizzie B (was this the old Pigs At Sea?).

 

I've always been partial to the G&S boats, starting with the 7.9, then the mariah's.

 

 

Bow wows.....

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You and Clean might want to take your shit fight somewhere else and not crap in this forum.

 

Shitfight removed, please accept my apologies for shitting in a very positive place.

 

 

 

 

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Looking forward to keeping this forum as productive as possible. Thanks, everyone, for the constructive input on email and PM. Keep the boat info coming in for inclusion in the MORC database - spread the word to your MORC buds to submit info so we can continue to compile a MORC database of boats/owners/crew. Send info request from the first post in this thread to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com.

 

Hoping by this weekend we will have a central location (server) made available for downloading MORC resources. Working on it with thread participation.

 

Basic Goals (this is a starting point):

updated handbook and appendices

completed measurement program

establish an organizational body

official website

enlist rule measurers

Mid-Winter 2012 as first bona fide event

 

any other suggestions.comments . . . please, the floor is open.

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You and Clean might want to take your shit fight somewhere else and not crap in this forum.

 

Shitfight removed, please accept my apologies for shitting in a very positive place.

 

Cudos. Too bad others can't demonstrate the same measure of class.

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Using Sailman's spreadsheet to calculate rating. Seems pretty easy to work with.

Does anyone have a guide to some of the measurements and how they are supposed made. I will incorporate measurement decriptions and explainations into spreadsheet for ease of use if anyone interested.

 

VM

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Does anyone have Bryan Huntley's contact (email) info? He was/is from the Akron/Cleveland area.

 

He was the last person (that I remember) to have the 25 minute measurement video.

 

If I can get my hands on a copy I will convert to cd. Assuming there are no copyrite issues.

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Has anyone contacted Chris over on www.MORCracing.org yet? Maybe we can get him to update the site with the latest news of bringing the class back.

 

I think CRW would a great way to kick off MORC again. I would like to see an effort to incorporate distance races into the MORC class. Being midget OCEAN racers it would be nice to actually do some of that instead of the w/l sail in circles for an afternoon.

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Jim Norris here, past MORC IM, MAC chair, St.50 Comm (in hibernation). I just talked with Matt Dubois (the last active Comm of MORC) and all info should still be posted on line somewhere. More contact info: <msdubois(type at symbol)sbcglobal.net> or Rene Valliant of Annapolis. Try <IValliant(type at symbol)aol.com> or maybe find her at Muller Marine in Annapolis. With MORC(M), boats under 30-feet went racing - now with only PHRF(P) most don't. Why? Typically, the M allowance spread was much more than P and gave smaller, heavier boats a chance. With P, a small boat rarely (if ever - in any wind) corrects over a big boat. M (unlike IRC) opened its Rule for all to see and many used it free without supporting the Club and still this was not M's downfall. P's simplicity over any measurement rule is the advantage. It also is a problem as I've never seen any P station move ratings to give the big boys something to worry about and this makes a built-in $ factor. Skippers used to complain about the cost & trouble of getting measured with M (usually all-in <$100), but look at IRC costs. I think they are using some of M's ideas & M could do as good a job as IRC and it would be a North American Rule. I certainly support any effort here and would love to attend a Revival with the L-26 or M-338. Contact me if you want.

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The remnants of MORC station 31 & 53 still sponsor a distance race. The Trans Erie race is a 140 NM race that will be racing from Grosse Ile, MI to Erie, PA beginning August 19, 2011. There is classes offered for MORC,PHRF, Doublehanded & Multihull. It would be nice to see MORC classes return to their race. I'll post a link to the Transerie website soon (when I get it updated for this year).

 

Eerie

 

Here is a nice pic from the last Trans Erie:

post-161-025834000 1298658521_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

Has anyone contacted Chris over on www.MORCracing.org yet? Maybe we can get him to update the site with the latest news of bringing the class back.

 

I think CRW would a great way to kick off MORC again. I would like to see an effort to incorporate distance races into the MORC class. Being midget OCEAN racers it would be nice to actually do some of that instead of the w/l sail in circles for an afternoon.

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Does anyone have Bryan Huntley's contact (email) info? He was/is from the Akron/Cleveland area.

 

He was the last person (that I remember) to have the 25 minute measurement video.

 

If I can get my hands on a copy I will convert to cd. Assuming there are no copyrite issues.

 

Bryon lives in Sandusky, however I think MORC is still a Corporation (Maryland), and as such would retain all rights. But, I'm sure all past members & Exes would do anything to help the Revival.

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BTW, in case there was some confusion, I think P2W is a class act for offering to host documents with absolutely nothing in it for him.

 

Thanks!

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You and Clean might want to take your shit fight somewhere else and not crap in this forum.

 

Shitfight removed, please accept my apologies for shitting in a very positive place.

 

Cudos. Too bad others can't demonstrate the same measure of class.

 

What does "cudos" mean?

 

Are to referring to the town in France?

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BTW, in case there was some confusion, I think P2W is a class act for offering to host documents with absolutely nothing in it for him.

 

Thanks!

 

+1

 

P2W and I spoke this morning. He is going to bineg work over the weekend to develop a platform where we can organize initially for online resources, data, etc. until we find a class solution or discover one that exists (supposedly there is one out there somewhere). He expects to have something available in the coming week - no pressure - just grateful someone is willing to work on it. He is doing it as no cost to help contribute to the "revival" of the class rule. I agree . . . . class act to take the lead on that.

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I see on the MORCracing.org history page that the upper limit is just under 34 feet. Any idea how a sport boat like an FT10 would fare under MORC? A friendlier place to be than IRC?

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Anybody know the whereabouts of the G&S designed Mariah 27s? We raced one on the great lakes and did the 89 internationals in Sarnia. The only one I've see reference to is Lizzie B (was this the old Pigs At Sea?).

 

I've always been partial to the G&S boats, starting with the 7.9, then the mariah's.

 

From Dick Robertson. Erie PA, :

 

I have "PIGS" in my shop,in the process of repair.Fred Hibbert has one in Toledo.Mike Karn has Insatiable ,Deltaville Va.Matt Dubois sold his and its either around GrossIsle or sitting in Florida.Where is LizzieB?I also have the last known membership list

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Looking forward to keeping this forum as productive as possible. Thanks, everyone, for the constructive input on email and PM. Keep the boat info coming in for inclusion in the MORC database - spread the word to your MORC buds to submit info so we can continue to compile a MORC database of boats/owners/crew. Send info request from the first post in this thread to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com.

 

Hoping by this weekend we will have a central location (server) made available for downloading MORC resources. Working on it with thread participation.

 

Basic Goals (this is a starting point):

updated handbook and appendices

completed measurement program

establish an organizational body

official website

enlist rule measurers

Mid-Winter 2012 as first bona fide event

 

any other suggestions.comments . . . please, the floor is open.

Budman,MORC still had up a website about a year or so ago and I believe the contact person was a old MORC stalwart named Don Ingersoll who sails out of Sandusky,Oh.I knew this name because he bought my dads old Kirby 30 years ago,and is still racing it in PHRF.I suspect he would have much needed information that might be missing and fill in some blanks.I will contact him if you want me to but do not want to have too many chefs stirring the pot so to speak.I know you and a few others are leading this process and perhaps it might be better to have one of you speak with him He's a great guy and I am sure will help anyway possible.Will try to get a contact number for him,let me know how you want to proceed.

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Good. Glad to hear you have them.

 

Now, how 'bout sharing them?

 

3 words:

 

Ti

A

Juana

 

shall I go on?

Never made it there on land, spent some time anchored offshore from it on the long distance race that night though,can still remember the smell,and lack of wind.What was the name of that strip bar not too far from SDYC with the pink bus out front?Little Feat had some fun that night.

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I would be happy to put any content up if you send it to me. MORCRacing.org was created after our conf. call a few years ago to collect interest. The old site MORC.org was not available for a reasonable price. During our conference call, I believe the corporation still legally exists.

 

Glad to see more interest, we might be able to pull it together!

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I see on the MORCracing.org history page that the upper limit is just under 34 feet. Any idea how a sport boat like an FT10 would fare under MORC? A friendlier place to be than IRC?

 

Too big, greater than 30 feet LOA.

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whatever happened to Babe Ruthless?

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

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whatever happened to Babe Ruthless?

I surveyed her for some bloke back in the mid 90's. IIRC she went to the east coast. Probably moved elsewhere by now.

 

Sweet boat.

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Looking forward to keeping this forum as productive as possible. Thanks, everyone, for the constructive input on email and PM. Keep the boat info coming in for inclusion in the MORC database - spread the word to your MORC buds to submit info so we can continue to compile a MORC database of boats/owners/crew. Send info request from the first post in this thread to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com.

 

Hoping by this weekend we will have a central location (server) made available for downloading MORC resources. Working on it with thread participation.

 

Basic Goals (this is a starting point):

updated handbook and appendices

completed measurement program

establish an organizational body

official website

enlist rule measurers

Mid-Winter 2012 as first bona fide event

 

any other suggestions.comments . . . please, the floor is open.

Budman,MORC still had up a website about a year or so ago and I believe the contact person was a old MORC stalwart named Don Ingersoll who sails out of Sandusky,Oh.I knew this name because he bought my dads old Kirby 30 years ago,and is still racing it in PHRF.I suspect he would have much needed information that might be missing and fill in some blanks.I will contact him if you want me to but do not want to have too many chefs stirring the pot so to speak.I know you and a few others are leading this process and perhaps it might be better to have one of you speak with him He's a great guy and I am sure will help anyway possible.Will try to get a contact number for him,let me know how you want to proceed.

 

JWW - Thanks for the info. If you have it, feel free to PM me his contact info or email it to morcdatabase AT hotmail DOT com and I will initiate contact with him. P2W is working on a platform for us to work from . Spoke to him today and he is making progress with getting it together. If there is an existing site or the data/assets for it residing somewhere, it would be great to incorporate into an updated product.

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Looking forward to keeping this forum as productive as possible. Thanks, everyone, for the constructive input on email and PM. Keep the boat info coming in for inclusion in the MORC database - spread the word to your MORC buds to submit info so we can continue to compile a MORC database of boats/owners/crew. Send info request from the first post in this thread to MORCdatabase@hotmail.com.

 

Hoping by this weekend we will have a central location (server) made available for downloading MORC resources. Working on it with thread participation.

 

Basic Goals (this is a starting point):

updated handbook and appendices

completed measurement program

establish an organizational body

official website

enlist rule measurers

Mid-Winter 2012 as first bona fide event

 

any other suggestions.comments . . . please, the floor is open.

Budman,MORC still had up a website about a year or so ago and I believe the contact person was a old MORC stalwart named Don Ingersoll who sails out of Sandusky,Oh.I knew this name because he bought my dads old Kirby 30 years ago,and is still racing it in PHRF.I suspect he would have much needed information that might be missing and fill in some blanks.I will contact him if you want me to but do not want to have too many chefs stirring the pot so to speak.I know you and a few others are leading this process and perhaps it might be better to have one of you speak with him He's a great guy and I am sure will help anyway possible.Will try to get a contact number for him,let me know how you want to proceed.

 

JWW - Thanks for the info. If you have it, feel free to PM me his contact info or email it to morcdatabase AT hotmail DOT com and I will initiate contact with him. P2W is working on a platform for us to work from . Spoke to him today and he is making progress with getting it together. If there is an existing site or the data/assets for it residing somewhere, it would be great to incorporate into an updated product.

Sent you a PM with a phone number to reach him at.

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

Much of this is very thoughtful. The demise of MORC had a lot more to do with the advent and rapid rise in popularity of one design racing in this size range than anything else. There is nothing that keeping the 34' limit does that can't be accomodated by keeping boats in divisions. Plus, the rule was always favorable to small boats anyway (from everything I've read).

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

Much of this is very thoughtful. The demise of MORC had a lot more to do with the advent and rapid rise in popularity of one design racing in this size range than anything else. There is nothing that keeping the 34' limit does that can't be accomodated by keeping boats in divisions. Plus, the rule was always favorable to small boats anyway (from everything I've read).

 

What one designs are everyone talking about? The only one designs I see are J105's, Beneteau 36.7's and J24's on Lake Ontario. (sharks, C&C 99) Melges here can barely put together a start and not too many race 12 meters except one club

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MORC SPREADSHEET CAVEAT . . . . . Clean posted a link to the excel worksheet and work product offered by Sailman. I have received a few follow-up emails regarding the spreadsheet.

 

PLEASE BE ADVISED - this is to be used only as a "guide" for your "evaluation" purposes only. It has not been approved or certified as a MORC measurement program.

 

Sailman developed the program using the MORC handbook and has found it to be accurate against other MORC-issued certs. I am grateful we have something that interested parties can use to derive a "number", HOWEVER, I just wanted to inform everyone this is not a MORC-certified program (not yet anyway).

 

Caveat aside, I want to extend THANKS to Sailman for sharing his work product.

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Anybody know the whereabouts of the G&S designed Mariah 27s? We raced one on the great lakes and did the 89 internationals in Sarnia. The only one I've see reference to is Lizzie B (was this the old Pigs At Sea?).

 

I've always been partial to the G&S boats, starting with the 7.9, then the mariah's.

 

Pigs at Sea is sitting in a garage in Erie, PA; Hat Trick (ex My Girl Too) is sitting in a warehouse in Farmington Hills MI

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It would be great to have One More - MORC Midwinters at DIYC

 

DIYC has a Bigger maybe 7500 hoist now

 

 

Paul Silvernail

 

Um Paul, all Newbies regardless of sailing tenure are still required to post pics of tits of wife, girlfriends, or beautiful substitute, ..... you make the call,

 

Rick

 

P.S. The old Soverel 26 vs. the Lindenberg 26 days aren't over!!!! and see the "No Wonder They are So Fast, ........" topic for inspiration.

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

Much of this is very thoughtful. The demise of MORC had a lot more to do with the advent and rapid rise in popularity of one design racing in this size range than anything else. There is nothing that keeping the 34' limit does that can't be accomodated by keeping boats in divisions. Plus, the rule was always favorable to small boats anyway (from everything I've read).

 

What one designs are everyone talking about? The only one designs I see are J105's, Beneteau 36.7's and J24's on Lake Ontario. (sharks, C&C 99) Melges here can barely put together a start and not too many race 12 meters except one club

 

The only boat in that bunch that would be MORC size is the J24, so we could start there if needed. But seriously, it isn't even worth questioning that one-designs were the death of measurement rules especially in small boats and even in medium-sized boats. At least in the US.

 

Is there any doubt about that?

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

No thanks. The Mumm 30 killed MORC. I think the rule should revert back to the under 28. There is nothing MIDGET about 30 to 34 ft boats. Make up your own rule and have your own class.

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

No thanks. The Mumm 30 killed MORC. I think the rule should revert back to the under 28. There is nothing MIDGET about 30 to 34 ft boats. Make up your own rule and have your own class.

 

Though the original rule permitted boats to 24', the 1959 amendment allowed boats up to one half inch shy of 30'. The rest is documented history with a final limit to 34'. What should be the upper limit?

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

No thanks. The Mumm 30 killed MORC. I think the rule should revert back to the under 28. There is nothing MIDGET about 30 to 34 ft boats. Make up your own rule and have your own class.

 

Did the Mumm 30 ever win the MORC Championships?

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No thanks. The Mumm 30 killed MORC. I think the rule should revert back to the under 28. There is nothing MIDGET about 30 to 34 ft boats. Make up your own rule and have your own class.

I'm with you. Midget and 30+ footer don't go together. I'd like to see under 30'.

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Though the original rule permitted boats to 24', the 1959 amendment allowed boats up to one half inch shy of 30'. The rest is documented history with a final limit to 34'. What should be the upper limit?

 

29.9, unless we think we can get a class together with boats smaller than that.

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Opening MORC to 30-34 foot boats was a symptom/failed cure, not the disease.

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Keep it under 30'. I agree the over 30' boats coming in was a last gasp of the club to build a critical mass to be sustainable. My take on the loss of interest was when owners started plowing $100k plus in 30' boats to win regattas. We did have some beautiful boats that were great in all conditions.

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Keep it under 30'. I agree the over 30' boats coming in was a last gasp of the club to build a critical mass to be sustainable. My take on the loss of interest was when owners started plowing $100k plus in 30' boats to win regattas. We did have some beautiful boats that were great in all conditions.

Agreed on both points.Heres the dilemma in 2011.The boats that helped drive out the older designs and the sailors with more modest bugets are still out there and I suspect if MORC makes a comeback they will come back into the fold.The arms race has been on hiatus,I doubt very much you will see a new custom MORC 30 built but the problem is these old hot rods will start right up where they left off in 2000,2001.Granted there are some results that show factory boats could still win on a national level but if you look at some of those boats they were extensivley modified and in my opinion not factory boats.MORC needs to determine how to rate older classic MORC designs against thes boats that were designed to exploit the rule and in my opinion caused part of the exodus.I do not think GRAND PRIX and CLASSIC divisions is the way to do this.It must be done with old age allowances,modification penalties,number of hulls built etc....I am not a MORC measuring expert but reading the 1999 handbook there seems to be ample ways in the formula to acclomplish this.This effort to kick start MORC is great and the enthusiasm is tremendous but we need to remember what caused the fleet to leave in the first place and adjust accordingly.Some of these penalties are in place in that formula but are they severe enough?I would also like to see a rule of no marine professionals on boats at least at regional and national events,period! Keep this class for the average sailors who feel they can compete against similar programs locally and nationally and have a chance of success.

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Keep it under 30'. I agree the over 30' boats coming in was a last gasp of the club to build a critical mass to be sustainable. My take on the loss of interest was when owners started plowing $100k plus in 30' boats to win regattas. We did have some beautiful boats that were great in all conditions.

Agreed on both points.Heres the dilemma in 2011.The boats that helped drive out the older designs and the sailors with more modest bugets are still out there and I suspect if MORC makes a comeback they will come back into the fold.The arms race has been on hiatus,I doubt very much you will see a new custom MORC 30 built but the problem is these old hot rods will start right up where they left off in 2000,2001.Granted there are some results that show factory boats could still win on a national level but if you look at some of those boats they were extensivley modified and in my opinion not factory boats.MORC needs to determine how to rate older classic MORC designs against thes boats that were designed to exploit the rule and in my opinion caused part of the exodus.I do not think GRAND PRIX and CLASSIC divisions is the way to do this.It must be done with old age allowances,modification penalties,number of hulls built etc....I am not a MORC measuring expert but reading the 1999 handbook there seems to be ample ways in the formula to acclomplish this.This effort to kick start MORC is great and the enthusiasm is tremendous but we need to remember what caused the fleet to leave in the first place and adjust accordingly.Some of these penalties are in place in that formula but are they severe enough?I would also like to see a rule of no marine professionals on boats at least at regional and national events,period! Keep this class for the average sailors who feel they can compete against similar programs locally and nationally and have a chance of success.

Unless of course the marine professional is a owner or partner in the boat,should have said that in the above statement.

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Make it a minimum of 10 boats built, at least 5 years old, or something along those lines. Should keep the big money programs out of it. Like I said before, no one is going to build a custom MORC boat and sit on it for 5 years before they can race.

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Make it a minimum of 10 boats built, at least 5 years old, or something along those lines. Should keep the big money programs out of it. Like I said before, no one is going to build a custom MORC boat and sit on it for 5 years before they can race.

That could be a start,but I.m not thinking of new boats or relatively new boats or big buck programs.The state of the art MORC designs that were winning everything from the the late 80's through the late 90's can now be bought for a fraction of what they cost to build but the problem is the still the same,these designs had a distinct advantage over most of the fleet because of design and will still have that advantage today.Nothing has changed unless as you are pointing out a penalty sytem is established for new designs,modifications,custom boats,limited hull numbers and credits to more traditional designs,generous credits.I hate to sound like I;m against new boats but this is a big reason why this forum has been started,to revive a pretty good measurement rule that became exploited like most do. A good oppurtunity to make the correct decisions and make MORC a viable fleet but not being on the leading edge of design and construction I feel is a good sacrifice.

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An owner driver rule with a one pro max and a new sail limitation might level things out?

Another thing that could be done is eliminate the bumps and hollows at the critical measurement points such as waterline@max beam. There were boats such as Easy Go that gained credit by having a bump on the gunnel way aft of the true max beam of the boat. When you measured the waterline beam at this point you got a narrow WL measurement and credit for a lack of stability. Those kind of holes can be closed up fairly easily.

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

Much of this is very thoughtful. The demise of MORC had a lot more to do with the advent and rapid rise in popularity of one design racing in this size range than anything else. There is nothing that keeping the 34' limit does that can't be accomodated by keeping boats in divisions. Plus, the rule was always favorable to small boats anyway (from everything I've read).

 

What one designs are everyone talking about? The only one designs I see are J105's, Beneteau 36.7's and J24's on Lake Ontario. (sharks, C&C 99) Melges here can barely put together a start and not too many race 12 meters except one club

 

The only boat in that bunch that would be MORC size is the J24, so we could start there if needed. But seriously, it isn't even worth questioning that one-designs were the death of measurement rules especially in small boats and even in medium-sized boats. At least in the US.

 

Is there any doubt about that?

 

 

I thnk the custom 30's killed the fleets as they were so much faster than the rest of the boats and much more expensive. Boats like Flak, and Zoo etc are still racing IRC and PHRF and still smoke much larger boats including 36.7's and 105's etc that race IRC when they are not racing in their classes

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Personally, I think the MORC rule should continue to have the upper limit at 34.0' LOA. There are a number of great boats in the 30-34' range that literally don't have a place to race. I don't believe that raising this limit caused the demise, the discussion at the time was that it included a greater number of boats that could potentially race. The organization dwindled, because of competition from other rating systems that appeared simpler.

 

This challenge continues to exist now. Under the MORC rule, they could race similar sized boats. Under the other rating systems, they typically are racing against boats much bigger. Our section in the Bermuda Race ranged from 32.5'-48.0'LOA. Within the section splits, the MORC races were very close given well prepared boats and crew. This is what made the racing great. I don't think we will ever achieve a rating system that everyone loves, but we can come up with systems that work for certain types of boats and are based upon measurement data. MORC encouraged boats that had decent characteristics under lots of conditions.

 

Much of this is very thoughtful. The demise of MORC had a lot more to do with the advent and rapid rise in popularity of one design racing in this size range than anything else. There is nothing that keeping the 34' limit does that can't be accomodated by keeping boats in divisions. Plus, the rule was always favorable to small boats anyway (from everything I've read).

 

What one designs are everyone talking about? The only one designs I see are J105's, Beneteau 36.7's and J24's on Lake Ontario. (sharks, C&C 99) Melges here can barely put together a start and not too many race 12 meters except one club

 

The only boat in that bunch that would be MORC size is the J24, so we could start there if needed. But seriously, it isn't even worth questioning that one-designs were the death of measurement rules especially in small boats and even in medium-sized boats. At least in the US.

 

Is there any doubt about that?

 

S2 7.9's faired very well under MORC.

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No not friendlier in the terms of rating, only due to who you hang with. :) A Henderson 30 rayed 36.9 ft in MORC, or 23.1 sec/nm. I think the FT would come in slightly faster than that.

 

I see on the MORCracing.org history page that the upper limit is just under 34 feet. Any idea how a sport boat like an FT10 would fare under MORC? A friendlier place to be than IRC?

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No not friendlier in the terms of rating, only due to who you hang with. :) A Henderson 30 rayed 36.9 ft in MORC, or 23.1 sec/nm. I think the FT would come in slightly faster than that.

 

I see on the MORCracing.org history page that the upper limit is just under 34 feet. Any idea how a sport boat like an FT10 would fare under MORC? A friendlier place to be than IRC?

 

I think the narrow hull with low interior volume would not rate well for the FT10, based on what experience I had racing under that rule. Did a few of the events at DIYC in the mid 90's.

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An owner driver rule with a one pro max and a new sail limitation might level things out?

Another thing that could be done is eliminate the bumps and hollows at the critical measurement points such as waterline@max beam. There were boats such as Easy Go that gained credit by having a bump on the gunnel way aft of the true max beam of the boat. When you measured the waterline beam at this point you got a narrow WL measurement and credit for a lack of stability. Those kind of holes can be closed up fairly easily.

I think the owner/driver rule that some other classes have is a cop out for mediocrity or not raising the bar. Having skilled "pro's" is healthy. Paying for them might be unhealthy for the class therefore allowing them on an unpaid basis keeps the rest of the crews competitive in terms of not needing a huge budget for more talent. In addition, the owner/driver rule inhibits an owner from having his/her crew take the boat out, or have crew rotation in a race, and provides no incentive for other crew members to ever develop their skills (and therefore nurture interest to buy a MORC boat themselves). MORC boats are supposed to be capable of distance races too, and you need to be able to rotate the "driver".

 

With respect to measurement "bumps", or hull distortions, all measurement rules have some designers torturing the hull to make the rule think differently about its real characteristics. To some extent, implementing control over the "artificial" points through a definition of a minimum radius and/or hull hollows, deals with that. Compared with IMS and IOR, MORC produced some nice un-tortured, fair hulls. I can't see anything wrong with "clever" or opportunistic use of the rule. It stirs some creativity. Just kicking things off is more important than even more tinkering with the rule. There isn't a new technical committee as yet and it may take a while to find the right resources again in that role.

 

At this stage of a revival, I would focus more time on an event using the rule as is, and even using the last known rating for a boat. Even if boats have been modified for PHRF, IRC, ORC etc.. since their last MORC rating, I think that should be ignored for the first event. i.e. let's make it easy for a new group to re-assemble a class organization, make it easy for nostalgic owners interested in a revival to make it to the start with minimal bureaucracy. I suspect that those interested in a MORC revival are probably more motivated to simply get on a start line with other MORC boats, than look for perfect handicap equity at this stage of rebuilding.

 

Lastly, I'd vote for retaining the 30ft limit on the basis that 34ft boats aren't exactly "Midget Ocean Racers", and the infrastructure and costs needed to weigh them for measurement starts to get expensive and sometimes difficult to find an easy haul out location for measuring. Not too many of the 80/90's 34ft boats will weigh in as light as a FT10 or M32 etc. Boats above 30ft can use PHRF, IRC, ORR as they are probably doing today. All those options weren't available to them back then except the PHRF non-measurement rule.

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I am sure you would.:P

No not friendlier in the terms of rating, only due to who you hang with. :) A Henderson 30 rayed 36.9 ft in MORC, or 23.1 sec/nm. I think the FT would come in slightly faster than that.

 

I see on the MORCracing.org history page that the upper limit is just under 34 feet. Any idea how a sport boat like an FT10 would fare under MORC? A friendlier place to be than IRC?

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I am sure you would.:P

No not friendlier in the terms of rating, only due to who you hang with. :) A Henderson 30 rayed 36.9 ft in MORC, or 23.1 sec/nm. I think the FT would come in slightly faster than that.

 

I see on the MORCracing.org history page that the upper limit is just under 34 feet. Any idea how a sport boat like an FT10 would fare under MORC? A friendlier place to be than IRC?

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At this stage of a revival, I would focus more time on an event using the rule as is, and even using the last known rating for a boat. Even if boats have been modified for PHRF, IRC, ORC etc.. since their last MORC rating, I think that should be ignored for the first event. i.e. let's make it easy for a new group to re-assemble a class organization, make it easy for nostalgic owners interested in a revival to make it to the start with minimal bureaucracy. I suspect that those interested in a MORC revival are probably more motivated to simply get on a start line with other MORC boats, than look for perfect handicap equity at this stage of rebuilding.

A big +1 to this.

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Mike Karn has Insatiable ,Deltaville Va.

 

Insatiable now called 'Bad Dog', owned by John Chick of Bayview Yacht Club(as of 2010 CRW)

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MY 50cents worth.....

 

1) Starting point should be the rule where it was around 1988.

 

2) Absolutely should be the 30ft max LOA.

 

3) Enact seasonal sail limitations

 

4) Limit the build materials to contain costs (I'm ambivalent on the topic of carbon spars, but you could exclude them on any new boats and force some cost reduction. When they come on par cost-wise with aluminum allow it)

 

5) Owner driver is waste of time, but limiting to 1 pro on-board not necessarily a bad idea

 

6) Accept that the rule will result in design diversity if it comes back and people start building boats for the rule again (considering the growth in the GP26 area this may not necessarily be outside the realm of possibility). The people that want some flexibility to go try new things should be welcomed, not spurned, as they will only serve broaden participation over time. I'd be willing to bet there would be some interest from folks that would like to do their own thing with a boat but don't have a format to go compete in.

 

7) Focus on ease of participation first and foremost, getting a rating cert, or a new station up and going should be as frictionless as possible. we can work to make information readily available and actively market to the community to make people aware of the return of the rule.

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Concur on all of the above esp 30' max

 

Think we need to be thinking locally ...how do we get all those small boats that don't race because they cannot compete with the big PHRF boats (and are sick and tired of PHRF politics), out on the race course and racing.

Once we have vibrant local fleets the regional scene will come together and then Nationals

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Concur on all of the above esp 30' max

 

Think we need to be thinking locally ...how do we get all those small boats that don't race because they cannot compete with the big PHRF boats (and are sick and tired of PHRF politics), out on the race course and racing.

Once we have vibrant local fleets the regional scene will come together and then Nationals

 

you make a great point on the PHRF item above. i can't imagine why anyone would race PHRF if MORC was available to them......

 

 

edit to add: I would however also amend the rule to prohibit retractable and fixed sprits. traditional poles only. i am sure many people would disagree, but one of the things i find to be a detraction in the sportboat platform movement is the removal of "working" the pointy end of the boat. in going to retractable and fixed sprits, the complexity of maneuvers has been reduced and a very important "team" dimension/aspect of racing has been eliminated.

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MY 50cents worth.....

 

1) Starting point should be the rule where it was around 1988.

 

2) Absolutely should be the 30ft max LOA.

 

3) Enact seasonal sail limitations

 

4) Limit the build materials to contain costs (I'm ambivalent on the topic of carbon spars, but you could exclude them on any new boats and force some cost reduction. When they come on par cost-wise with aluminum allow it)

 

5) Owner driver is waste of time, but limiting to 1 pro on-board not necessarily a bad idea

 

6) Accept that the rule will result in design diversity if it comes back and people start building boats for the rule again (considering the growth in the GP26 area this may not necessarily be outside the realm of possibility). The people that want some flexibility to go try new things should be welcomed, not spurned, as they will only serve broaden participation over time. I'd be willing to bet there would be some interest from folks that would like to do their own thing with a boat but don't have a format to go compete in.

 

7) Focus on ease of participation first and foremost, getting a rating cert, or a new station up and going should be as frictionless as possible. we can work to make information readily available and actively market to the community to make people aware of the return of the rule.

Agree,when I spoke of pros on board perhaps I overstated my views,but in years past you would see multiple sailmakers on board and designers on the same boats week after week . I do agree though, GET THE BOATS OUT RACING AGAIN.

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