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Shootist Jeff

All things Libya

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2 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

 

Do we need to photoshop in a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED banner?

Or is it just obvious? Or does the NY Times article make that case? Failed state and terrorism haven accomplished.

Olson also has an excellent "mission accomplished" Lybian dead babies and children whacked by "coalition" bombs collection. Hehe, along with some hilarious rape footage. Funny like hell. 

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On 3/8/2011 at 5:42 AM, mad said:

Agreed, they need to stand on their own feet no matter how bad it gets. Everytime there is outside intervention it undermines any new regime that takes over. First accusation will always be that the new regime is a "poodle" of which ever country/ies that got involved.

 

Lets be honest we haven't really helped a lot anywhere that we have intervened.

Vintage wisdom.

On 3/14/2011 at 7:16 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

Not helping in Libya will destroy what little goodwill we might have or ever have with the arab street.

This needs updating to reflect the current de-regiming project.

Not helping in Syria will destroy what little goodwill we might have or ever have with the arab street.

Well, it needed a new font too.

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6 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:
On 3/15/2011 at 7:16 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

Not helping in Libya will destroy what little goodwill we might have or ever have with the arab street.

This needs updating to reflect the current de-regiming project.

 Not helping in Syria will destroy what little goodwill we might have or ever have with the arab street.

 Well, it needed a new font too.

I was wrong about Libya. At least I admit we should have stayed the fuck out likewe should stay the fuck out of Syria. 

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8 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I was wrong about Libya. At least I admit we should have stayed the fuck out likewe should stay the fuck out of Syria. 

In order to stay out, we'll need to first get out.

That's why I support Trumps withdrawal orders in Syria and Afghanistan. Still waiting on the Niger one.

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On 3/18/2011 at 3:08 AM, dogballs Tom said:

 

Clinton stated that Saddam must go, as we have been reminded many times.

 

Fast forward some years, and when the nation building is going badly in Libya under some Republican, and this quote will be fun.

5 minutes ago, Battlecheese said:

Given your very low profile during these ancient discussions on Syria and Libya, those of us who were actually taking a position at the time do not appreciate this jonny-come-lately attempt to claim the moral high ground.

Oh. OK.

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On 3/20/2011 at 9:35 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

I think the chance of AQ or mujahideen popping up in Libya are slim to none. From what I hear it is not a terribly fundamentalist Muslim country and Qadaffi himself ws trying to blame the uprisings n AQ as a way to turn public sentiment against the protesters. AQ is a boogyman there as much as it is here, apparently.

*cough* There are some gems hidden away in here.

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1 minute ago, Battlecheese said:

*cough* There are some gems hidden away in here.

Indeed, including posts from me that you seem to have missed. Are you ready to correct your statement above or do you stand by it?

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13 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

Indeed, including posts from me that you seem to have missed. Are you ready to correct your statement above or do you stand by it?

I did not make a statement above. You are masturbating over a whole bunch of threads. I have replied to your original one.

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7 minutes ago, Battlecheese said:

I did not make a statement above. You are masturbating over a whole bunch of threads. I have replied to your original one.

If I moved my old posts to that thread, that would be wrong.

Moving your current post to an old thead? Also wrong.

Is there an acceptable way to reference old posts and prove you wrong?

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22 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I was wrong about Libya. At least I admit we should have stayed the fuck out likewe should stay the fuck out of Syria. 

Here's a pro tip: if there's an American military intervention and you don't wish to look like an ass years down the road, it's probably best to oppose it.

Is there an exception to this rule?

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Somalia, maybe.

But probably not.
 

Quote

 

The United States has maintained some degree of military presence inside Somalia for much of the last three decades, but a pattern of escalation that began late in former President Barack Obama's second term has markedly accelerated in the two years since President Donald Trump took office. Airstrikes are on the rise; hundreds of U.S. boots are on the ground; and Trump's March 2017 decision to designate portions of Somalia as "areas of active hostility" means military operations can proceed with less oversight and greater tolerance for civilian casualties.

Somalia is thus, for all intents and purposes, another addition to Washington's roster of undeclared, undebated, and unnecessary wars of uncertain connection to U.S. security—and a Friday report from NBC News suggested Trump had finally come to see it that way. Citing multiple unnamed senior officials, NBC reported the administration would scale down the American military intervention in Somalia, "narrowing" the mission and shifting responsibility to local actors like the African Union and the Somali government.

 

That would be nice, but I'm looking skyward for falling blobs.
 

Quote

 

Trump's presidency, however, has generally continued the same interventionist policies of the last two administrations. His promises of peace, always inconsistent, have been smothered by the foreign policy establishment "blob."

But the last month has seem some glimmer of candidate Trump return: He announced a plan to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, pledging American soldiers there would be home with their families soon. He reportedly ordered the Pentagon to make plans for withdrawing half of the 14,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan. And on a surprise visit with U.S. forces in Iraq right after Christmas, Trump returned to his campaign-era talk of ending needless interventions. "The United States cannot continue to be the policeman of the world," he said. "We are spread out all over the world. We are in countries most people haven't even heard about. Frankly, it's ridiculous."

This impulse toward restraint, sadly, may be short-lived, as Trump's framing of the Syria plan has already shifted. He started speaking of a "slow" exit, after which National Security Advisor John Bolton announced the withdrawal would not happen at all absent an unlikely guarantee from Turkey. Meanwhile, other administration officials revealed that if any troops do leave Syria, many will simply be redeployed to neighboring Iraq, not sent home as Trump had pledged.

It is not hard to surmise what happened here: Trump wanted U.S. troops to leave Syria; Bolton and other reflexively pro-war members of his advisory team—as well as most of "permanent Washington"—did not. Trump made the initial announcement, but the subsequent implementation, handled by Bolton and his allies, has endangered, if not outright killed, the withdrawal plan. One could be excused for wondering exactly how much Trump controls his own administration's policy.

 

JBolton_Walrus.jpg

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On 1/9/2019 at 7:46 PM, dogballs Tom said:

Somalia for much of the last three decades,

Black hawk down!

The USG needs to maintain a military presence in Somalia.

The mission in Somalia is worth every penny of deficit spending.

The Federal Reserve stands ready. :ph34r:

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We're still fixing Somalia
 

Quote

 

Last weekend, the U.S. military killed what they reported as 52 militants from Somalia's al-Shabab.

...

There's nothing ambiguous about the terribleness of al-Shabab. However, experts at the Council of Foreign Relations and the Center for Strategic and International Studies attribute their more aggressive rebirth to Ethiopia's 2006 invasion of the country, which raised the terrorist group's numbers from hundreds to what is now reportedly nearing 7,000. The Somali government and the UN Security Council-backed African Union Mission in Africa have been fighting al-Shabab since 2007. Fighting them is an understandable goal, but these recent acts of violence smell like blowback and could be a teachable moment if anyone wanted to learn.

Trump's desire to kill the families of terrorists, which, if done deliberately, would likely be a violation of the Geneva Convention, was memorable, but still doesn't have the reputation of a bomb-dropping kind of guy. In part because he likes to keep enemies guessing, but also because of policy in-fighting and indecision.

Realistically, however, Barack Obama's inclination toward tying his own hands in his final years in office came after he became notorious for pioneering a drone assassination program that he refused to admit existed for years. By the time he was a lame duck, and therefore suddenly aware that someone else was going to take the reins of death soon, he decided to take control over drone strikes away from the intelligence agencies and the Pentagon. He also issued a 2016 executive order to try and catalog civilian death from drones.

Not only were Obama's lame duck attacks to clean up his own mess generally infuriating––since he set the world's precedent for drone warfare and all––but the Department of Defense and intelligence agencies under Obama were not exactly trustworthy in their civilian casualty counting skills either.

Officially, any male of military age killed in a strike counted as a terrorist until proven otherwise. Males who survive an attack are assumed to be terrorist sympathizers. Fundamentally, there has never been a reason to trust that the U.S. will tell––or even knows, or wants to know––how many civilians it kills. Yes, terrorists and locals have an incentive to claim excessive death tolls, but equally, estimates offered by the U.S. government, such as nearly 1,000 innocent people killed in three years of fighting the Islamic State (IS), will be extremely low. The nonprofit Airwars, which tracks deaths in Libya, Syria, and Iraq, frequently estimates five to six times greater numbers of civilian deaths than official U.S. accounts suggest.

Perhaps all 52 militants killed in Somalia were as bad as could be, and nobody innocent suffered. Maybe that's true, but there's hardly enough evidence to prove that the U.S. will treat gatherings of people, or cars moving towards an area deemed suspicious, or even people's homes as legitimate targets.

But again, why is the U.S. involved at all?

 

It's a good question. I guess the answer is that we're still scouring the globe for those elusive 9-11 terrorists.

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