kimbottles

Perry Sliver Class Day Sailor

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PB, have owned 2 of his boats(still happily own own), considering building a PT skiff.

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Please excuse me for continuing to have trouble with the code.

PB = Phil Bolger

Regarding HInckley, their best known boat (Bermuda 40) was by Bill Tripp.  That's a name I haven't seen mentioned in this thread.

 

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Bill Tripp (he's actually Bill Tripp II) would sure be on my list, right next to Phil Rhodes.  X-TOUCHE was one of my favs as a kid.

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12 hours ago, kimbottles said:

PB & RB who designed my delightful PT Nester........ 

 

4 hours ago, captain_crunch said:

Please excuse me for continuing to have trouble with the code.

PB = Phil Bolger

In this context, I think PB = Paul Bieker?

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The Mercer 44 was a collaboration of Jack English and a few others that got together after WWII. Jack had developed a system for parachute deployment at the beginning of the war and had worked previously with a man named Herbert Hooper to develop thermosetting plastics. They didn’t invent the method- they merely developed a form of plastic that wouldn’t crack upon heating and vacuum forming. He got pretty rich off of the thoughts that entered his brain. 

In his later years, 60’s through his late 90’s, he spent time at his estate in Island Heights, NJ painting on Masonite board. His works were always sailing craft and the detail amazing. He was accused by some of not being a true artist because he projected the image he wanted to paint onto the board and traced it out. It was the use of color and shading that made his material art. He’s pretty well known in that regard. 

He spent his winters in Key Biscayne, FL and enjoyed his days until he “popped off”. At 90 he lamented to me that he would soon Pop off and leave his young bride. She was 10 years younger. He had met her when he was 10 and she was 4 at a party in 1917 or so and told his mother that he was going to marry her one day. They married in 1943 and had 3 daughters. 

As an aside, he was absolutely amazed when I changed the lightbulb on his front porch and he pushed the button and it lit up. He had pushed the old button switches for 30 years trying to get the thing to work. He never thought  that a lightbulb would break it’s coil and fail...

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And, of course they owned and cruised one for years before the kids moved out. He then got an ensign and sailed that successfully until he was about 80. Sold the boat and played tennis until he was about 92. 

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On 12/24/2018 at 9:30 PM, IStream said:

Until it rains.

Rim brakes work in all weather if fitted with quality pads, I've criss crossed Wales on a road bike fitted with rim brakes despite the 25% hills and the rain. You can fettle them on the go if need be and are more crash resistant than disc brakes.

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^^ There seems to be a correlation between owning a sailboat and riding a road bike.  My main steed is a 1994 Trek 2200 with Campagnolo Veloce gruppo.  I swim in the mornings, run in the evenings, and ride on the weekends during the warmer months.  I've been pondering entering our town's annual sprint triathlon.  It would be a good excuse for getting a new bike, but my wife is still angry about the sailboat.

 

trek_2200.jpg

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8 hours ago, captain_crunch said:

Please excuse me for continuing to have trouble with the code.

PB = Phil Bolger

Regarding HInckley, their best known boat (Bermuda 40) was by Bill Tripp.  That's a name I haven't seen mentioned in this thread.

 

The code for the late Mr. Bolger would be PCB.

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Rim brakes work in all weather if fitted with quality pads, I've criss crossed Wales on a road bike fitted with rim brakes despite the 25% hills and the rain. You can fettle them on the go if need be and are more crash resistant than disc brakes.

I commuted to work by bicycle every day for nearly 20 years in the rainy PNW. Also toured, road raced, cycle crossed, and mountain biked. All was done on rim brakes. They would work fine if properly adjusted and maintained. But there was a toll on equipment. Pads and rims would wear out, dirt from the brakes would plate off on everything and in snowy cold conditions, they would grip very well at all. The Last bike I bought before retiring was a Cannondale disc cross. The brakes were noisy untill one day i the alignment precisly and have not had any issues since. I commuted with it for my last six years of work and now retired, I fitted it with a rack and panniers to use it as my go to Seattle to buy boat parts bike.

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     I have repeatedly done Google searches for X-Touche but always come up empty handed. I was probably one of the last people to walk her decks and stand at her helm even though she was impaled on a reef after dragging her mooring in an unexpected near miss of a hurricane. Really a tragedy. 

    Here is a Bill Tripp Jr that shows a lot of the shared DNA to X-Touche.

Image result for sail

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Did someone say beer?

Ok leaving now!  Bye.

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Rasper:

That Trip III X-TOUCHE is very close, above the DWL anyway, to the Tripp II X-TOUCHE. I never saw the boat in person, just drawings and some grainy photos in YACHTING but it was one hell of a boat in its day. As a kid I drew my own version of it complete with tacking wheel. Did it still have the tacking wheel when you saw it?

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4 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Rasper:

That Trip III X-TOUCHE is very close, above the DWL anyway, to the Tripp II X-TOUCHE. I never saw the boat in person, just drawings and some grainy photos in YACHTING but it was one hell of a boat in its day. As a kid I drew my own version of it complete with tacking wheel. Did it still have the tacking wheel when you saw it?

OK, what is a “tacking wheel”?

I have never heard that term.

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The pedestal would tilt from side to side in the days before twin wheels.

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Yeah, it had the tacking wheel. I stood there waist deep in the water wearing my dive mask and snorkle and wished I had a waterproof camera of me flipping it back and forth. I considered coming back to the rock/reef it had died upon to try and unpin the wheel and 'flip flop' pedestal as it was a real piece of history. I looked to see what tools I would need and made plans for a neighbor in the anchorage to help the next day. The wreck was not more that 300 yards from my mooring.

    That night at the bar I ran into the owner/skipper and told him of my salvage effort for the helm and he was understandably drunk (and a mean one at that!) and he just scowled at me and told me he would kill me if I ever touched his boat again regardless of where it was. As he had supposedly graduated from the 'Big House' I agreed to leave it alone and muttered 'Touche' as I walked away. 

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Kim:

As I recall X-TOUCHE did not have a cockpit well. It had coamings and if there was a well it was very shallow, say 8" maybe 10" if it was recessed at all.

The single wheel pivoted at the sole level from side to side so the helmsman could get outboard. to see around the typical CCA 170%+ genny.

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4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Rim brakes work in all weather if fitted with quality pads, I've criss crossed Wales on a road bike fitted with rim brakes despite the 25% hills and the rain. You can fettle them on the go if need be and are more crash resistant than disc brakes.

Move to Seattle and commute year-round for a few years, then get back to me.

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19 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Kim:

As I recall X-TOUCHE did not have a cockpit well. It had coamings and if there was a well it was very shallow, say 8" maybe 10" if it was recessed at all.

The single wheel pivoted at the sole level from side to side so the helmsman could get outboard. to see around the typical CCA 170%+ genny.

Just fit a tiller and tiller extension, got to be simpler.

(Thanks Bob, a new one for me.)

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Kim:

Given the size of EX-TOUCHE and the unbalanced, barn door planform rudder well forward I'm not sure that was the right boat to be tiller steered.

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2 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

Kim:

Given the size of EX-TOUCHE and the unbalanced, barn door planform rudder well forward I'm not sure that was the right boat to be tiller steered.

Then she would not be the right boat for me Bob.

A tiller or nothing.

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Still looking for Touche or X-Touche but coming up short. I'm pretty sure she was A&R built so in looking in that direction still am stumped. I did find this stunning model along the way...

Abeking & Rasmussen

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8 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

    I was shocked to find this travesty. Henry Rasmussen's own personal yacht built in steel 1924 but now listed at $60K in Florida. The part that makes me cry is that it was 'professionally' FIBERGLASSED and offered as a 'project boat'. 

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/70654

 

Regarding fiberglassing steel hulls. Several Ted Hood's Robins, build in Holland had such a treatment.

Regarding Touche. Yes, A & R built.

Regarding the model. Looks very similar to Sumerun a 1914 Fife's  built. 

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2 hours ago, Tanton Y_M said:

Regarding fiberglassing steel hulls. Several Ted Hood's Robins, build in Holland had such a treatment.

Regarding Touche. Yes, A & R built.

Regarding the model. Looks very similar to Sumerun a 1914 Fife's  built. 

I imagine that those Robin's had the steel hulls fiberglassed during the original build? The the A&R got its glass job 50 years after its original build? I'm not buying in on that as a sound technique. Enlighten me someone.

I this Touche was built or finished right after WW2? Would there be any chance that she would have been part of some war reparation deal? My GoogleFu is about wore out trying to get any info on her.

 

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From another broker’s listing of Arktur (where it’s down to 49900). I’m almost lost for words: where do these people come from?

 

“ Iron Hill invased in fiberglass, auxiliary engine replaced, reconditioned the deck and cabin woodwork, and more.

In 2002 entire hull was cold molded in fiberglass, about 20 feet of bad steel in the garber plank area was replaced, then reglassed.”

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Round here, there are a surprisingly large number of people who are functionally illiterate or innumerate..

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18 hours ago, captain_crunch said:

^^ There seems to be a correlation between owning a sailboat and riding a road bike.  My main steed is a 1994 Trek 2200 with Campagnolo Veloce gruppo.  I swim in the mornings, run in the evenings, and ride on the weekends during the warmer months.  I've been pondering entering our town's annual sprint triathlon.  It would be a good excuse for getting a new bike, but my wife is still angry about the sailboat.

 

trek_2200.jpg

IMGP0099.jpg

Quite a few years ago... the Elan valley.

 

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14 hours ago, IStream said:

Move to Seattle and commute year-round for a few years, then get back to me.

I've commuted daily between Bristol and Bath (45km round trip very wet on occasions with a steep descent in the morning) for several years, I was swearing by "salmon Kool Stop brake pads" only. Every 1 or 2 years I had to lace a new rim to my wheel, professional wheelbuilders do it in less than 1h, for me it was 2 hours after dinner and quite a relaxing way to finish the day!).  In my view that was preferable than dealing with slightly out of true discs on a daily basis.

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I've had more than one rim blow out on me without warning after being ground down by brake pad grit, which is both inconvenient and depending on how/where it happens, dangerous. So now I have to do a prophylactic wheel build every year? No thanks. I find that truing up a wheel is a relaxing and satisfying activity. Lacing up a rear wheel from scratch, not so much.  

I have a soft spot for lots of older bicycle tech but rim braking doesn't make the cut. Hydraulic discs are a superior way to stop a bike in every possible way. Even the weight penalty, if there is one nowadays, is offset by the inertia advantage of a rim that doesn't have to be overbuilt to act as a brake rotor. 

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

I've had more than one rim blow out on me without warning after being ground down by brake pad grit, which is both inconvenient and depending on how/where it happens, dangerous. So now I have to do a prophylactic wheel build every year? No thanks. I find that truing up a wheel is a relaxing and satisfying activity. Lacing up a rear wheel from scratch, not so much.  

I have a soft spot for lots of older bicycle tech but rim braking doesn't make the cut. Hydraulic discs are a superior way to stop a bike in every possible way. Even the weight penalty, if there is one nowadays, is offset by the inertia advantage of a rim that doesn't have to be overbuilt to act as a brake rotor. 

Sure if you let your rims wear out, they will blow out, that is dangerous and tends to happen while braking at high speed, that's why I was replacing them before they were too thin. It is not that difficult, on many rims there is wear mark so you know when you reach the critical point. I've never blown out a rim. I've seen somebody running out of disc pads on a steep descent, that was scary. If you use rim pads in cartridges it is a 10 minutes pit stop to swap for new ones and can be done at night under the rain.

At that time I was putting some serious mileage on my bike which I was using for audaxing and commuting. I don't like fiddly kit and I prefer the inconvenience of changing rims occasionally to adjusting tiny pieces regularly. Nowadays I have a very short commute and I use a fixed wheel bike for its sheer simplicity, a bit of oil on the chain and air in the tyres every month, new tyres from time to time and it keeps going on and on! If I were cycling off road or on gravel roads, I would use discs. If I had to commute long distance again, I would probably use a recumbent, there is no magic kit that it is better for all uses. Simplicity is underrated IMHO.

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The following is a photo of Touche designed by Bill Tripp. The photo is from "The Great American Yacht Designers" by Bill Robinson.  The following is the text that accompanies the photo.

In 1957, the 48-foot flush-deck sloop Touche , built for John Potter of Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club, made her appearance, and she became one of those "landmark" boats that set a trend in general while generating a durable and distinguished racing career of their own.  She was built of double-planked mahogany over oak frames at Abeking and Rasmussen in Germany and arrived just in time for the New York Yacht Club cruise, where she turned in a 11-1-2-3 record.  She represented a lot of original thinking in a designer-owner collaboration, with midship cockpits to port and starboard, pivoting steering pedestal that could be adjusted athwartships so the helmsman could keep his eye on the luff, sliding chart table, an off-center Mercedes diesel, a centerboard trunk below the cabin sole, and many other unusual features.  In a long and successful career, during which she was taken over by Dr. Herbert Virgin of Florida, she won one race and was fourth in the series standings as late as the 1969 SORC, she remained a threat in all events until the change to the IOR hurt her.

In Touche, Bill concentrated on keeping weight amidships and on low wetted surface, items that weren't as frequently considered in those days as they are now.  Her bulbous underwater lines, suggested to him somewhat by the atomic submarines, as well as the heavy, foil-type centerboard blade, were considered to be startling innovations in many quarters.

 

william_tripp_touche_mod.jpeg

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For some reason I can’t get the photo to load, but I have that book in my library, so just in case other’s can’t get it to load here it is:

8661E29F-5E20-40BF-B09C-17E2E7D610D0.jpeg

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4 hours ago, captain_crunch said:

The following is a photo of Touche designed by Bill Tripp. The photo is from "The Great American Yacht Designers" by Bill Robinson.  The following is the text that accompanies the photo.

In 1957, the 48-foot flush-deck sloop Touche , built for John Potter of Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club, made her appearance, and she became one of those "landmark" boats that set a trend in general while generating a durable and distinguished racing career of their own.  She was built of double-planked mahogany over oak frames at Abeking and Rasmussen in Germany and arrived just in time for the New York Yacht Club cruise, where she turned in a 11-1-2-3 record.  She represented a lot of original thinking in a designer-owner collaboration, with midship cockpits to port and starboard, pivoting steering pedestal that could be adjusted athwartships so the helmsman could keep his eye on the luff, sliding chart table, an off-center Mercedes diesel, a centerboard trunk below the cabin sole, and many other unusual features.  In a long and successful career, during which she was taken over by Dr. Herbert Virgin of Florida, she won one race and was fourth in the series standings as late as the 1969 SORC, she remained a threat in all events until the change to the IOR hurt her.

In Touche, Bill concentrated on keeping weight amidships and on low wetted surface, items that weren't as frequently considered in those days as they are now.  Her bulbous underwater lines, suggested to him somewhat by the atomic submarines, as well as the heavy, foil-type centerboard blade, were considered to be startling innovations in many quarters.

 

william_tripp_touche_mod.jpeg

Was that the same Potter that later owned Equation?

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Thanks Crunch,

     After a few months of the hulk of Touche getting ground into splinters on the coral and rock spur to leeward of my mooring it was a shame to see the remaining backbone of the boat like a skeleton of a corpse. I would occasionally swim over to have a look as more and more of the remains were washed away, much like an autopsy. The centerboard case, nast step and frame floors had been fabricated of what I believe was bronze and there was an upright horn on the aft end of the centerboard trunk which housed the lift cable and winch. It was an amazing structure which tied the whole boat together and lasted long after the wooden frames and planking which were fastened to it. It wasn't the first boat to come to grief on that particular reef, but it left its signature for far longer with that ingenious bronze backbone. 

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A friend dropped this off a couple days ago.

Never heard of them: “Cool Anker”

Will have to enlist Panope to help me test it.

43701481-3BDE-44E4-8A90-CA8E14B2AB24.jpeg

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That will be a permanent mooring for Panope

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11 hours ago, kimbottles said:

A friend dropped this off a couple days ago.

Never heard of them: “Cool Anker”

Will have to enlist Panope to help me test it.

43701481-3BDE-44E4-8A90-CA8E14B2AB24.jpeg

They're for self-stowing on power boats I think. Lots of Dutch barges have them. Don't I remember that they do very badly in tests?

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2 minutes ago, py26129 said:

That will be a permanent mooring for Panope

We will use WHITECAP for the testing.

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Ed said:

They're for self-stowing on power boats I think. Lots of Dutch barges have them. Don't I remember that they do very badly in tests?

Stockless or "Navy" anchors are about the worst in tests - their weight is all they seem to have going for them.

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7 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Stockless or "Navy" anchors are about the worst in tests - their weight is all they seem to have going for them.

That, and they are very strong.

The PNW salmon seiner fleet use stockless anchors (Forfjord) almost exclusively because they hook in to rock and don't bend on retrieval.   They also stow nicely in a simple roller at the top of a Plumb stemmed bow or a side hawse pipe.  

No protruding anchor roller/extension/platform/sprit needed. 

Steve

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25 minutes ago, Panope said:

That, and they are very strong.

The PNW salmon seiner fleet use stockless anchors (Forfjord) almost exclusively because they hook in to rock and don't bend on retrieval.   They also stow nicely in a simple roller at the top of a Plumb stemmed bow or a side hawse pipe.  

No protruding anchor roller/extension/platform/sprit needed. 

Steve

This Dutch Anker is very stout and compact.

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31 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

Certainly looks bloody massive.  How many kg?

25kg

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16 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

25kg

According to previous tests of navy-type anchors, the holding power of that anchor should be about 24.5 kg.

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The Dutch Anker is slightly smaller physically than my 20 HT Danforth and much smaller than my 35 HT Danforth.

Then you see the mass of the stock and flukes, or try picking it up.

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24 minutes ago, hobot said:

bumpity bump.

FB_IMG_1497892260448%201_zpsxsas72gq.jpg

Is this Kim B's back yard?  ;-)

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Can't be.  Those bikes aren't fancy enough.  Campy or nothing!

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11 minutes ago, sculpin said:

Can't be.  Those bikes aren't fancy enough.  Campy or nothing!

The pink fuzzy one looks pretty campy.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

The pink fuzzy one looks pretty campy.

John Waters campy?

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12 minutes ago, hobot said:

John Waters campy?

NTTAWWT

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So back to FRANCIS’ tender.

We knew when we purchased her the house bank was very weak. I turns out that a local ham radio operator works for a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) company and has access to virtually new computer backup deep cycle 12 VDC AGM’s at an attractive price. So I measured my house battery location and found I could accommodate eight of them.

So out will come the weak 6 VDC Lifelines and in goes the 12 VDC UPS AGM’s.

I found some bronze plates in my metal junk pile and cut them into strips to make the installation a bit simpler. (Please don’t look too closely at my hand cutting job. The electons will not mind the sloppy cuts.)

Now I have to lug 12 old 6v AGM’s out (55 pounds each) and 8 new 12v AGM’s (103 pounds each) into the machinery space under the pilot house. (Gives me an excuse to beef up the battery hold down system which needs some attention.) Will not need to go to the gym this weekend, but I will need to take the bronze straps off and cart the UPS batteries one at a time!

The UPS batteries are a bit stronger than the Lifelines, they are AH rated at 8 hour instead of 20 hour. 952 AH at 8 hour rating. That should be enough.

E86B8E78-8290-4E08-A7CD-DA694BFE4B8C.jpeg

681A1F47-11A1-443E-9BE7-F9623AF02CE8.jpeg

BDFE6D6D-E650-4D94-9ED8-3F8461BC88F6.jpeg

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Don't neglect to check & reset battery charging parameters for all your various charge devices

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43 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

So back to FRANCIS’ tender.

We knew when we purchased her the house bank was very weak. I turns out that a local ham radio operator works for a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) company and has access to virtually new computer backup deep cycle 12 VDC AGM’s at an attractive price. So I measured my house battery location and found I could accommodate eight of them.

So out will come the weak 6 VDC Lifelines and in goes the 12 VDC UPS AGM’s.

I found some bronze plates in my metal junk pile and cut them into strips to make the installation a bit simpler. (Please don’t look too closely at my hand cutting job. The electons will not mind the sloppy cuts.)

Now I have to lug 12 old 6v AGM’s out (55 pounds each) and 8 new 12v AGM’s (103 pounds each) into the machinery space under the pilot house. (Gives me an excuse to beef up the battery hold down system which needs some attention.) Will not need to go to the gym this weekend, but I will need to take the bronze straps off and cart the UPS batteries one at a time!

The UPS batteries are a bit stronger than the Lifelines, they are AH rated at 8 hour instead of 20 hour. 952 AH at 8 hour rating. That should be enough.

BDFE6D6D-E650-4D94-9ED8-3F8461BC88F6.jpeg

I'm not crazy about how they tapped that bank. They should've brought the main positive cable to the left-most terminal to keep the modules in better balance. 

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15 minutes ago, IStream said:

I'm not crazy about how they tapped that bank. They should've brought the main positive cable to the left-most terminal to keep the modules in better balance. 

Yes, that is how FRANCIS is wired. Perfect opportunity to correct that now on WHITECAP. Both banks have that issue.

But their real issue is they have been abused. They were new in 2014! But we knew this up front as the seller was very forthright with us. We have friends in common so we were exchanging email (he is in Italy) before we closed the deal via the brokers. (Both brokers were good too, happy transaction all around.)

Good guy the seller, from a prominent sailing family.

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27 minutes ago, IStream said:
1 hour ago, kimbottles said:

BDFE6D6D-E650-4D94-9ED8-3F8461BC88F6.jpeg

I'm not crazy about how they tapped that bank. They should've brought the main positive cable to the left-most terminal to keep the modules in better balance. 

I see what you mean by the wiring change but how does that "keep the modules in better balance"?

What about connecting both positive and negative "mains" to their respective posts on the middle battery of the three pairs?

No longer an issue as they are being replaced, though at a net gain in weight of... (8 X 103 lbs.) - (6 X 55 lbs.) = 164 lbs.

I thought the trend was to lighter LiFePo batteries?  I had to look up "AGM"; found this definition - still lead-acid, right?  They don't have a product that weights 103 lbs.:
https://www.renogy.com/products/deep-cycle-batteries/agm-batteries/

Quote

WHAT IS AN AGM BATTERY?

AGM batteries, or Absorbent Glass Mat batteries, offer better cycle life with a deep cycle charge/discharge and a wider temperature range than typical lead-acid batteries, making them ideal for solar systems. These AGM batteries are used in many applications such as Marine applications, RV applications, backup batteries, etc.

 

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12 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

Yes, that is how FRANCIS is wired. Perfect opportunity to correct that now on WHITECAP. Both banks have that issue.

But their real issue is they have been abused. They were new in 2014! But we knew this up front as the seller was very forthright with us. We have friends in common so we were exchanging email (he is in Italy) before we closed the deal via the brokers. (Both brokers were good too, happy transaction all around.)

Good guy the seller, from a prominent sailing family.

Glad to hear it. The PO of my boat was great too...And my bank was wired the same way. 

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  "Balanced wiring"   By moving the pos take off lead to the opposite end from the neg lead, ALL batteries 'see' the same length of cabling/resistance, so all batts charge/discharge evenly. Many will quibble about such a small difference, but this has been proven (by those who research this, & by hard knocks) to be significant.

   And ALL the pos leads need to come off the proper end terminal, so in this instance the pos lead needs to go to a buss bar to accommodate the two other leads tapping into the middle batt.

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3 minutes ago, longy said:

  "Balanced wiring"   By moving the pos take off lead to the opposite end from the neg lead, ALL batteries 'see' the same length of cabling/resistance, so all batts charge/discharge evenly. Many will quibble about such a small difference, but this has been proven (by those who research this, & by hard knocks) to be significant.

   And ALL the pos leads need to come off the proper end terminal, so in this instance the pos lead needs to go to a buss bar to accommodate the two other leads tapping into the middle batt.

I agree.

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I don't know the standards, but it seems to me that solid bus bars might not be the best idea on a boat.  It depends somewhat on how everything is mounted, but I'd personally want some flex between the individual batteries. 

 

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On 12/27/2018 at 1:17 PM, Great White said:

The Last bike I bought before retiring was a Cannondale disc cross.

My favorite bike is a Cannondale tandem.  I have ridden it thousands of miles with my lady and some with my daughter.  The standard joke we get is that she's not pedaling.  My son borrowed it one day and wondered why the hills and heat were getting to him.  He turned to see his wife's feet on the handlebars!

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2 hours ago, Kirwan said:

I don't know the standards, but it seems to me that solid bus bars might not be the best idea on a boat.  It depends somewhat on how everything is mounted, but I'd personally want some flex between the individual batteries. 

 

It can work fine if the batteries are well constrained in all three dimensions. Web straps around each row and column plus a heavy plastic or fiberglass panel holding it all down works well.

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5 minutes ago, IStream said:

It can work fine if the batteries are well constrained in all three dimensions. Web straps around each row and column plus a heavy plastic or fiberglass panel holding it all down works well.

The battery space is very well secured. The batteries will not move. And the bronze straps (bars) do flex a little bit.

I just wonder how I am going to get them into the machinery space.

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2 hours ago, hasher said:

My favorite bike is a Cannondale tandem.  I have ridden it thousands of miles with my lady and some with my daughter.  The standard joke we get is that she's not pedaling.  My son borrowed it one day and wondered why the hills and heat were getting to him.  He turned to see his wife's feet on the handlebars!

I had a Cannondale tandem also. I loved that bicycle, but ran out of people who would ride it with me. I sold it a few years ago. I am down to six Cannondales (2 road, 2 MTB, Disc cross and touring) and two oddballs (cyclocross and Montague fold up MTB).

Sorry for the thread drift.

 

1990 Cyclocross National Championships

2019-1-12_8407-1.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Great White said:

I had a Cannondale tandem also. I loved that bicycle, but ran out of people who would ride it with me. I sold it a few years ago. I am down to six Cannondales (2 road, 2 MTB, Disc cross and touring) and two oddballs (cyclocross and Montague fold up MTB).

Sorry for the thread drift.

 

1990 Cyclocross National Championships

2019-1-12_8407-1.jpg

It is NOT thread drift.

A884BFC5-962A-4878-907E-F96B39E29EBB.jpeg

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I'm still riding a Fisher CR-7 that I bought in 1988. I'm a bit easier on it now than I was 30 years ago (went over the handlebars twice in the first week), but 30 years is pretty good for a main ride. I do lust after something faster and lighter and maybe it's time to get off the museum bike, so I'm keeping my eyes open...

 

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6 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

I'm still riding a Fisher CR-7 that I bought in 1988. I'm a bit easier on it now than I was 30 years ago (went over the handlebars twice in the first week), but 30 years is pretty good for a main ride. I do lust after something faster and lighter and maybe it's time to get off the museum bike, so I'm keeping my eyes open...

 

You are not alone Russell, I still ride the Merckx MXLeader I bought in 1995. And still have the Bulgier I acquired in the 1980’s. And I have my team issue Sakai 5000 from the late 70’s mounted on my Computrainer. They are all steel. Steel is real.

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We also had a Cannondale tandem. My wife would certainly contribute to forward motion, but it took a while to convince her that she needed to help balance the bike as well. After a few rides with random swerving about we got into the rhythm and could ride for miles at 20 plus. We eventually sold it when we got nice Ti road bikes.

Russell, don't sell the old bike but do test ride one of the new road endurance frames. The move toward wider tires, better riding positions and better vibration dampening have improved bikes a lot. I really notice the difference on all the chip-seal roads around here.

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1 hour ago, steele said:

We also had a Cannondale tandem. My wife would certainly contribute to forward motion, but it took a while to convince her that she needed to help balance the bike as well. After a few rides with random swerving about we got into the rhythm and could ride for miles at 20 plus. We eventually sold it when we got nice Ti road bikes.

Russell, don't sell the old bike but do test ride one of the new road endurance frames. The move toward wider tires, better riding positions and better vibration dampening have improved bikes a lot. I really notice the difference on all the chip-seal roads around here.

Best tandem rides I have taken were with very strong partners. Old racing buddy Poto, my pal Bill, my brother Scott and my son Derek.

We could even climb well because we were in sync with our pedaling. My racing buddy (former team mate in the 60’s and 70’s) was so smooth the only way I knew he was behind me was the extra power. (I always drove because the tandem was mine, a custom Davidson built by Mark Bulgier.)

30 mph? No problem would you like to see 40? We did at least three one day  STP’s (Seattle to Portland) on that tandem. Best time was 8 hours for the 200 miles.

Derek liked to say to other riders as we passed them going uphill: “tandems can’t climb.” At one point Derek and I had about a thirty rider line drafting behind us. We picked the pace way up and ended up with three survivors (all USCF racers.)

Fun Times.......

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Old bank on dock, new bank at head of dock.

I am not going to have to hit the gym today.

This is real work.

Weight lifting belt around core, dolly at the ready, taking it slow and resting lots.

82DDBD7C-A7BF-48C1-98FF-F2828B317D90.jpeg

B30ECCCC-E745-4A7F-ABF0-95ABD1299EDC.jpeg

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Wow, that's a lot of lead.  I though we had quite a bit, with 5 of them.  In retrospect, we do have a lot more (in the keel - 7000 lbs.).

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1 hour ago, kimbottles said:

Old bank on dock, new bank at head of dock.

I am not going to have to hit the gym today.

This is real work.

Weight lifting belt around core, dolly at the ready, taking it slow and resting lots.

You have sons - that sort of thing is what they are for.

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4 hours ago, kimbottles said:

You are not alone Russell, I still ride the Merckx MXLeader I bought in 1995. And still have the Bulgier I acquired in the 1980’s. And I have my team issue Sakai 5000 from the late 70’s mounted on my Computrainer. They are all steel. Steel is real.

Ah yes, but what steel?  For '80s cyclists that was as serious a debate as talking about anchors.  I liked building with Reynolds 531 for road frames, but was a Tange Prestige guy for offroad work.  Either Cinelli lugs, or fillet brazed with no lugs at the tube joints.  Campagnolo makes nice dropouts.

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