kimbottles

Perry Sliver Class Day Sailor

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14 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Trying to visualize the cutter that makes those holes.

The holes look easy - it’s the tenons (is that the right word?) I don’t understand. 

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Hey @Mr. Ed good to see you woke up after the catamaran vide. Welcome back.

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56 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Zonk, It is the way tenons have been cut for ages, with an auger and boring bit. One starts with those overlapping holes but the you clean up the tits and corners with a chisel.

Brad point bits do a great job.

mortise_drill_press.jpg

 

I’ll have to mention that to the boss. Good hygiene tip @Rasputin22.

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Gee I was visualizing some fancy 5 axis CNC machine that does it all in one go. 

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Old school stuff here but they are just trying to mill out a tenon molding that one can buy that will match the old drill out the rough mortise and save all the chiseling out. Pretty clever mix of old school and new school that should be quick and easy for the home shop guy and it does help eliminate the print through that biscuits can cause. Two thumbs up for me although I have yet to try it.

 

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So is it just a pre-made fancy floating tenon that you buy?

IMHO it is easier to make a straight mortice with a router than regular spaced holes with a drill press.

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It’s how we do it in America.

Pretty common method.

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Meh.  If I need the strength of a tenon I cut a tenon, for joining up something like a table top you can't beat the biscuit jointer.  I've never been a fan of dowels.

If the budget was unlimited I'd get a Festool Domino:

 

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Domino, I can see the point if you are a pro doing hundreds per week, otherwise it's just yet another example of a German over-engineering!

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3 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

It’s how we do it in America.

Pretty common method.

Which way, the drill press or the router method?

In France, the local joiner had a specific machine called a "mortaiseuse" :

 

I don't think it is common in the anglophone world (feel free to prove me wrong).

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22 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Which way, the drill press or the router method?

In France, the local joiner had a specific machine called a "mortaiseuse" :

 

I don't think it is common in the anglophone world (feel free to prove me wrong).

Ain't got time for that!

     Here is how we do it here in Merica (but with a Japanese tool...)

 

 

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We call it a horizontal drill press here. 

 

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I had one of these in my shop for a while. Pretty clever and who says you can drill a square hole?

Image result for mortise bit for drill press

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The chain saw mortiser is used by carpenters here.

Or was used... now most of the work is done by some fancy German CNC.

 

1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

 

I had one of these in my shop for a while. Pretty clever and who says you can drill a square hole?

Image result for mortise bit for drill press

These were (and still are to some extent) often used horizontally here on machine similar to the one I showed earlier.

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Eight years ago today we lost Spike Perry.

The SLIVER project was started just about that time.

The project was then dedicated to the memory of Spike.

The Spike Burgee will fly on FRANCIS LEE today.

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Good on'ya Mr. Bottles

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Can you see WHITECAP’S new solar panels? They were adding electrons even on today’s heavily overcast day! 360 watts of flexible panels with a Victron controller with Bluetooth.

WHITECAP came home, FRANCIS LEE went into the yard for new boom wings and lifelines. (It took this long for Evgeniy, Nigel and me  to figure out how best to build Bob’s lifelines to match his drawing. The wait was worth it.)

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1 hour ago, kimbottles said:

Can you see WHITECAP’S new solar panels? They were adding electrons even on today’s heavily overcast day! 360 watts of flexible panels with a Victron controller with Bluetooth.

WHITECAP came home, FRANCIS LEE went into the yard for new boom wings and lifelines. (It took this long for Evgeniy, Nigel and me  to figure out how best to build Bob’s lifelines to match his drawing. The wait was worth it.)

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Boat porn. I still haven't sailed on FL.

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Maybe you pressure washed the hull first, but FL is glistening!  Congratulations to whoever selected and applied the anti-foul paint.  It is obviously highly effective and very well done.   

And those are very fine boats:  thanks for sharing.  

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1 hour ago, bugger said:

Maybe you pressure washed the hull first, but FL is glistening!  Congratulations to whoever selected and applied the anti-foul paint.  It is obviously highly effective and very well done.   

And those are very fine boats:  thanks for sharing.  

The paint is Trinidad and is cleaned every couple months by our divers TJ and Brian.

Thanks to Great White for introducing me to TJ and Brian.

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Boat porn. I still haven't sailed on FL.

That’s because you haven't visited us recently Ish.

(If you show up with Anne you can drive.)

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Thanks to Anomaly for testing the boom wings on his vessel and then sharing the results with us.

(Thanks to Bob for supplying the drawings for both the wings and lifelines to CSR.)

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4 hours ago, kimbottles said:

That’s because you haven't visited us recently Ish.

(If you show up with Anne you can drive.)

Cool. This is the first day of Anne's retirement, so we have more time now.

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38 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

See below:

kim benson rack(1).pdf

 

So I am guessing its a 'stacking aid' when dropping the main? Or a place for the grandkids to gather when underway...my kids used to love standing on the boom and leaning back against the close-hauled main when they were little (I know - bad parent - but both of them survived!).

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2 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

So I am guessing its a 'stacking aid' when dropping the main? Or a place for the grandkids to gather when underway...my kids used to love standing on the boom and leaning back against the close-hauled main when they were little (I know - bad parent - but both of them survived!).

Yes, stacking aid for mainsail and hand holds when standing on cabin top. There should be enough cushion in the main to sleep up there on hot nights....maybe.

I wonder if we can toss the lazy jacks with the rack/wings, guess we will find out.

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Those flexible panels really disappear and look great!

Not bad at all on  a cloudy day. Which brand panels did you end up going with?

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2 hours ago, kimbottles said:

Two Renogy 160 watt Panels.

Victron 100/50 controller

Looks great and with that Victron, you'll be able to fill the rest of the roof with more panels!

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

Looks great and with that Victron, you'll be able to fill the rest of the roof with more panels!

That is the plan, we will see how the first two perform and then decide if we need more.

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    Watching your solar efforts with interest Kim. I'm working on a next design for a solar canal boat inspired cruiser that you may make the connection to another project that you  recently saw. Seems that the flexible panels didn't give the sort of output expected on that project so now are going back to rigid panels and in my looking at the latest available panels I was surprised to see that there are now panels that if placed on standoffs above a white deck can actually generate additional amperage rom the back side of the panel! 

    Would really work well if panels were hinged on the long edges and could pivot up to better face the sunlight and that would open up the backside to even more light. 

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1 hour ago, kimbottles said:

That is the plan, we will see how the first two perform and then decide if we need more.

FWIW, I don't think it's possible to have too much solar. It's just more time at anchor, smaller alternators, etc.

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11 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

    ...Seems that the flexible panels didn't give the sort of output expected on that project so now are going back to rigid panels and in my looking at the latest available panels I was surprised to see that there are now panels that if placed on standoffs above a white deck can actually generate additional amperage from the back side of the panel!

Flexible panels are great for 'alternative' mounting schemes - I have some installed on a soft bimini - and they probably less fragile than the hard ones. I stow mine under a berth when the bimini needs to be stowed. But I agree that there seems to be a penalty against the 'nameplate' output of the flexible panels versus the rigid panels in real world scenarios. Still, panels are getting so cheap that the answer is: "just buy more" (as long as there is enough real estate for them).

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4 hours ago, Jim in Halifax said:

Flexible panels are great for 'alternative' mounting schemes - I have some installed on a soft bimini - and they probably less fragile than the hard ones. I stow mine under a berth when the bimini needs to be stowed. But I agree that there seems to be a penalty against the 'nameplate' output of the flexible panels versus the rigid panels in real world scenarios. Still, panels are getting so cheap that the answer is: "just buy more" (as long as there is enough real estate for them).

So far I have seen a peak of 271 watts out of my 360 watt array. This in cloudy Seattle. Works for me. Adding two more panels would be easy, but as my vessels are very simple with minimal electron needs I am not sure I would need more; time will tell. (The blue tooth is pretty cool.)

 

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Since my last post I have seen 345 watts out of the array, but then we reached “Float” for the batteries, so the high wattage has stopped.

We cleaned the fresh water tanks on WHITECAP this last weekend which required filling and emptying the tanks several times. The solar powered the pumping out without breaking a sweat. Takes 50 minutes to pump out the tanks running all outlets at once. Pressure pump operating continuously.

Then we were back to the float stage.

Boom wings are progressing for FRANCIS. Need paint next. 

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3 hours ago, kimbottles said:

Since my last post I have seen 345 watts out of the array, but then we reached “Float” for the batteries, so the high wattage has stopped.

Many charge controllers for use in off grid homes have an output for a 'load dump'. It is used to bleed extra capacity off to a load so that it can be utilized, the load has to be something that is kind of dumb and able to accept varying amounts of power.  Most often the load is a DC heating element on a hot water tank, so your excessive solar capacity can be used to provide hot water on an as-conditions-permit basis.  I haven't seen this feature on marine units yet, but it's something I'd like to see.  This feature is included in a popular off-grid controller by Midnite solar.

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On 5/16/2019 at 10:23 AM, kimbottles said:

Since my last post I have seen 345 watts out of the array, but then we reached “Float” for the batteries, so the high wattage has stopped.

We cleaned the fresh water tanks on WHITECAP this last weekend which required filling and emptying the tanks several times. The solar powered the pumping out without breaking a sweat. Takes 50 minutes to pump out the tanks running all outlets at once. Pressure pump operating continuously.

Then we were back to the float stage.

Boom wings are progressing for FRANCIS. Need paint next. 

E761FBD6-3D5D-4C37-9470-EE9AB875FCB6.jpeg

Kim, I missed the boom wings thing. Can you refresh me? Was there bending or are you looking for place take a nap without interruptions?:P

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7 minutes ago, Bull City said:

Kim, I missed the boom wings thing. Can you refresh me? Was there bending or are you looking for place take a nap without interruptions?:P

Heck if I know why, Anomaly and Bob put me up to it.

(Hand holds while on cabin top and much easier to manage the 125# mainsail when it is dropped onto the boom. Taking a nap up there in the mainsail might be fun to try sometime.)

In paint prep now.

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1 hour ago, kimbottles said:

Hand holds while on cabin top and much easier to manage the 125# mainsail when it is dropped onto the boom. Taking a nap up there in the mainsail might be fun to try sometime.

Makes a lot of sense. Sweet dreams!

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Paint prep?

Paint?!

There you go again, one-upping me....

I have thought about painting it. But I’m not sure the world needs more yellow

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This boom wing idea is looking very good. And they are perfectly placed to be handholds when going forward when FL is hard on the wind.

Looks like I will get her back next week, but the railmaker is way behind on the pulpits, so no lifelines yet.

WIll add them on later while in the water.

Thanks to Anomaly2 for the idea and Bob for the design.

The lazy jacks are lashed on so we can try it with and without to see if we really need them.

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Looks great, Kim. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up sticking with the jacks. 

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46 minutes ago, IStream said:

Looks great, Kim. I wouldn't be surprised if you end up sticking with the jacks. 

Yes, I think that might be a possibility. 

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46 minutes ago, kimbottles said:

Anomaly2 has asked that I refer to them as “Boom Bensons”.

As nice as they are, I thought we should honor the designer's terminology....

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1 hour ago, Anomaly2 said:

As nice as they are, I thought we should honor the designer's terminology....

If I had known “Boom Benson” was a Bob invented name I would have use it.

I thought it was your name for it Anomaly2.

Boom Benson it is.......

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19 hours ago, kimbottles said:

If I had known “Boom Benson” was a Bob invented name I would have use it.

I thought it was your name for it Anomaly2.

Boom Benson it is.......

My name for it? I call them boom wings...:D But that isn't relevant. BOB calls them boom bensons. You did read the CAD drawing didn't you? Sheesh! (I hope Bob is reading this thread... :D:D )

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Oh, so I got the erroneous name “boom wings” from you?

How dare you lead me astray!

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Bob calls anything that "stops" something a Benson.  :ph34r:    Like the foot braces on the cockpit sole are called Bensons.   Your boom benson stops the sail from falling on your face.  :D

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1 hour ago, kimbottles said:

Oh, so I got the erroneous name “boom wings” from you?

How dare you lead me astray!

Hmm, now how do I get myself out of this....? 

When I'm talking to myself, I call them boom wings. When I'm bragging about them and trying to convince others to try them, I call them boom bensons and direct people to the designer. AKA Bob.

There!

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1 hour ago, Anomaly2 said:

Hmm, now how do I get myself out of this....? 

When I'm talking to myself, I call them boom wings. When I'm bragging about them and trying to convince others to try them, I call them boom bensons and direct people to the designer. AKA Bob.

There!

Well done, I think you slipped out of trouble, maybe sideways, but out nevertheless.

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Just to provide some thread drift, I did a little Googling on Boom Bensons, and came up with:

Benson Boom, some kind of agricultural thingy:

image.png.5755945933473cfd99a030d12aa5fb77.png

and Lorne "Boom Boom" Benson, a Canadian football player (1951-1955):

image.png.478600fdb5630d869fcdc49ffa27d47b.png

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Lifelines because I turn 71 next week.

And I have been known to single hand her.

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They look really good, Kim. I'm sure they will be hardly noticeable out on the water. 

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7 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

They look really good, Kim. I'm sure they will be hardly noticeable out on the water. 

Both the lifelines and the Boom Bensons kind of disappear unless you actually look for them.

(OK, this was before we ran the wire....)

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On 3/20/2019 at 11:39 AM, Rasputin22 said:

 

I had one of these in my shop for a while. Pretty clever and who says you can drill a square hole?

Image result for mortise bit for drill press

I have a floor hollow chisel mortiser. Sliding table and dovetailed ways. Is very nice when cutting 160 mortises in hardwood.

https://woodworker.com/1hp-mortiser-floor-standing-230v-mssu-924-020.asp?GF=928-597&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgLLoBRDyARIsACRAZe4domAeWYhH2lqz9Kk3k7demfCRH945E1Hv2uq5bBkdy7x9CbfNVhUaApLlEALw_wcB

 

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2 hours ago, kimbottles said:

Both the lifelines and the Boom Bensons kind of disappear unless you actually look for them.

(OK, this was before we ran the wire....)

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Looks better with the lifelines IMO Kim - I always think a boat without them looks a bit unfinished.

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FL was a beautiful boat without the lifelines and she's a beautiful boat with.  Somehow the boom mod makes her look even better. 

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5 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Looks better with the lifelines IMO Kim - I always think a boat without them looks a bit unfinished.

Frankly Jon I was surprised at how good she looked with Lifelines. I had assumed they would detract, but much to my shock and surprise I actually think they look good! SWMBO thought they looked good too.

(Of course it helps that Bob designed the lifelines and pulpits, he knows how to make boat stuff look right. He designed the Benson too, of course.)

Now I have to admit that maybe lifelines aren't so bad. Kind of like how I have had to admit I actually like using the bow thruster on WHITECAP. (I can walk her sideways with it plus one engine in reverse.)

Even an old fart can learn new stuff.

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3 hours ago, kimbottles said:

Lifelines because I turn 71 next week.

And I have been known to single hand her.

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The lifelines look really good. And your sidedecks are still unobstructed. Is that a gate at the fwd end of the cockpit?

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31 minutes ago, Great White said:

The lifelines look really good. And your sidedecks are still unobstructed. Is that a gate at the fwd end of the cockpit?

Hi Great White (I can’t remember if you have outed yourself so I won’t use your real name.)

Yes, gate on both side at the end of the cabin house at the forward end of the crew cockpit.

I walked around the deck when I visited CSR today and the lifelines don’t impact free movement at all.

I get FRANCIS back Tuesday if you want to take a ride through the locks with me. Plan to sail after we get into the Sound so we can see how the Boom Bensons work out. We left the lazy jacks connected to the Bensons for now. Might not need them, time will tell.

She needs a good cleaning which CSR will do Monday. Monday is SWMBO’s birthday, so I will spend the day with her and go get my expensive mistress on Tuesday. Let me know if you want to ride along Great White.

Cheers,

Kim

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I think she actually looks even better with the lifelines and the stanchions. Lack of lifelines equates freshwater boat in my mind and I prefer a bit of salt.

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It looks great and love that fwd gate stanchion, nice and solid for getting onboard or going fwd. Some thoughts that perhaps you've already considered. You can always add double gate eyes in the life lines when things go slack opened. In the fwd gate if the pelicans are aft they tend to stow better and out your way fwd when open. Same in reverse aft and easier to reach from the dock. C

 

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11 hours ago, kimbottles said:

 SWMBO thought they looked good too.

And as we long married men know, that is what really matters. :D

We need full length pics underway.

P.S. Happy birthdays to you both.

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Ham Radio Field Day is in full swing aboard WHITECAP with a portable quick deploy doublet antenna which I threw together this morning.

de K7IM/m 1C WWA

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On 4/23/2019 at 4:24 PM, Ishmael said:

Boat porn. I still haven't sailed on FL.

No wonder she's a rocket ship.

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37 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

No wonder she's a rocket ship.

Maybe I can get people to pay me to not sail on their boats.

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On 3/16/2019 at 11:48 AM, Rasputin22 said:

 

 

Biscuit joints telegraph through the surface of the plank.

These are better in that respect (and stronger!).

20796-01-1000.jpg

 

Don't work so well on OREOs.

BTW,  Rasper: Most 'biscuit shadow' is a result of people sanding the joint too soon. Gotta wait ~24 hours for the moisture in the glue to diffuse out of the biscuits & away from the joints. If you sand while the localized area is still swelled, you will get distinct outlines of biscuit locations when the wood shrinks back down. You get the same problem with any sort of mortise & tenon, loose tenon, dowel joint, or even a butt-joined glue line (tho slightly less pronounced than biscuits, which are designed to expand with glue). Gotta wait a day before planing or sanding. :)

Pano: That machine in the Anglosphere is known as a 'slot mortiser', and they are fairly uncommon outside door-making millwork houses.. The sliding table versions take up a lot of space. Most use end mills made for cutting aluminum.

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Nigel took pictures as we left and I took a few shots while motor sailing home, almost no wind......
Sail fell into the Bensons perfectly, haven’t even used sail ties yet, sail just sits there.
Think we will leave the lazy jacks on for now, they are further out of the way out at the edge of the Benson.

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Today is Bob Perry’s birthday, I celebrated it in style aboard his boat that I take care of for him.

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Happy Birthday, Mr. Perry

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Bob Perry designed Bensons work wonderfully (no surprise.)

This is the way the mainsail fell, we did not touch it. We use to struggle to keep the main on top of the boom even with lazy jacks, not now.

Not even sure I need sail ties, but I did deploy some after cleaning up the boat.

This plus the lifelines will make it easier to single hand her.

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Of course now the mainsail cover no longer fits well, but it covers the sail, which is its important function.

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All look like great improvements Kim.

Those Bensons flake a main better than I've ever been able to. :D

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Yes, I have never been able to flake the main as well as the Bensons do it.

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One of the unheralded benefits of a stack pack is the inability to see how well or how poorly the main is flaked. As long as the zipper closes, it's all good. I realize that this is very un-seamanlike but my dacron main weighs about 150 lbs and my boom sits at nipple height and extends over my dodger, so flaking the main is not easy. I haven't seen any negative effects of a "random flake" (YMMV) and it relieves me of a big physical and psychological burden.

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Heck, your main is 25 lbs heavier than mine! I thought I had the heavy main.

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