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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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kimbottles

Perry Sliver Class Day Sailor

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Just think how "green" it would be.

 

Not if you consider how much single malt, roast beef and fine wine your oarsmen would consume.

 

Are you kidding?

 

Feed them gruel!

 

I guess the captain won't be waterskiing after lunch if he serves gruel. You don't want to see this crew go all ugly.

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This is the last vessel he skippered. I am not allowed to say who owns her, it is all hush hush. He left her last year and has been doing contract work.

 

 

Are you allowed to say what kind of sailboat is on top?

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Just think how "green" it would be.

 

Not if you consider how much single malt, roast beef and fine wine your oarsmen would consume.

 

Are you kidding?

 

Feed them gruel!

 

Not this little black duck.

 

We will put you in charge of the drum Ish.

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This is the last vessel he skippered. I am not allowed to say who owns her, it is all hush hush. He left her last year and has been doing contract work.

 

 

Are you allowed to say what kind of sailboat is on top?

 

What sailboat? I think you are seeing rigs of vessels anchored behind her. She does take up much of the harbor when she visits.

 

She does sometimes carry a small car and landing craft.

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Very nice Kimb! If you don't mind, maybe a couple close ups of the laz gutters? Thanks!

 

It is just the laminating tools so far being attached to the mold for laminating into the cockpit structure. Not the actual gutters just yet. But here are a few shots (big so only one per post.)

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Gutter tools.

 

These are being installed upside down of course and the cockpit seats will be laminated upside down (and inside out) on the mold. You will note the slope in the tools to offer drainage into the foot wells of the cockpit.

 

You can see one of the cockpit seat hatches sitting on the upside down floor of the cockpit foot well over Russell's right elbow.

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Will there be ring frames or longitudinals in the hull? Or is the hull stiff enough without?

 

The bulkheads, berth fronts, shelves and some stringers in the ends will make up the structural interior. Three very talented fellows (Bob Perry, Tim Nolan & Jim Franken) all agree on the plan so I am feeling pretty good about how strong this vessel will be. I saw Jim's drawing of the various interior pieces Monday, it was quite intricate and very cool. Wish I had a digital copy to post.

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"She does sometimes carry a small car and landing craft."

 

landing craft? LCMs ?? LCTs ?? LC(Truck)?

 

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Dang !! That makes it a good sized yacht, doesn't it.

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Cockpit seat gutters. Glassed in and waiting for the rest of the cockpit laminates. The screws are to hold the tools in place both for laminating and for releasing later on.

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The engine room "soft patch" on the bottom of the forward cockpit sole. (Remember: you are seeing something upside down and inside out. At the shop it helps to stand on your head while studying the progress.)

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The cabin house is pretty much done, all faired and smooth.There is a lot of peal ply still attached so sorry about the messy pictures. Maybe next Monday it will be gone and the pictures will be cleaner.

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The engine room "soft patch" on the bottom of the forward cockpit sole. (Remember: you are seeing something upside down and inside out. At the shop it helps to stand on your head while studying the progress.)

I just rotate your pictures... saves getting a head ache.

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The engine room "soft patch" on the bottom of the forward cockpit sole. (Remember: you are seeing something upside down and inside out. At the shop it helps to stand on your head while studying the progress.)

I just rotate your pictures... saves getting a head ache.

 

Well, that is one way to look at it.......I don't want to give YOU of all people a headache Wun!

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And the interior of the hull is now half coated with the final epoxy outer coat, the other side will be coated shortly (maybe they got to it today.)

 

Bob visited Saturday as part of the symposium he was speaking at and he once again praised the craftsmanship of the School, Russell, Tim, Jim and Brandon. It sure feels good to have Bob like the progress.

 

I never get tired of looking at her stern and dreaming about her slipping quietly through the water.....

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Then on to Brandon's shop to see the progress on the flat panel molds. He said I could show these pictures because the secret stuff is not yet visible. That's Carter a graduate of the School working on the molds. (He is another of the really skilled guys working on this project.)

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And the interior of the hull is now half coated with the final epoxy outer coat, the other side will be coated shortly (maybe they got to it today.)

 

Bob visited Saturday as part of the symposium he was speaking at and he once again praised the craftsmanship of the School, Russell, Tim, Jim and Brandon. It sure feels good to have Bob like the progress.

 

I never get tired of looking at her stern and dreaming about her slipping quietly through the water.....

 

We were very surprised at how fast they got it all faired out, but we have a bunch of young enthusiasts in the students working away on the project. Tim stopped by and also commented on the nice finish.

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Looks to be she's turning out as beautiful as some of your bikes, Kim.

 

You should probably not try to bring her in to the house, though.

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Looks to be she's turning out as beautiful as some of your bikes, Kim.

 

You should probably not try to bring her in to the house, though.

 

It was hard enough getting SWMBO to allow the one road bike in the living room (as a piece of art of course, note the lack of pedals, that's what makes it art instead of a bike) I am pretty sure she would draw the line at bring the Sliver in......however when she is in a good mood I might go for hanging this from the rafters......

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

It allows you to engineer in just the properties you need.

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

It allows you to engineer in just the properties you need.

 

Exactly, and because these panels are all part of the structural elements of the design we need what we need (fancy inserts and such.)

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

It allows you to engineer in just the properties you need.

 

Exactly, and because these panels are all part of the structural elements of the design we need what we need (fancy inserts and such.)

 

Well.... that was the answer I expected. I guess I'm not surprised, you're building a boat after all. However, the aerospace guys have developed entire lines of panels with all manner of characteristics. For a few projects I've done I have simply added carbon to the outside of exiting panels to get the characteristics I needed, if they weren't already available, at a tiny fraction of the cost of hand building them. Also, the aerospace folks do destructive testing and careful QA. That's always hard on a hand built project. I'm not trying to be critical in the slightest, but there are some pretty amazing things out there off the shelf.

 

BV

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

It allows you to engineer in just the properties you need.

 

Exactly, and because these panels are all part of the structural elements of the design we need what we need (fancy inserts and such.)

 

Well.... that was the answer I expected. I guess I'm not surprised, you're building a boat after all. However, the aerospace guys have developed entire lines of panels with all manner of characteristics. For a few projects I've done I have simply added carbon to the outside of exiting panels to get the characteristics I needed, if they weren't already available, at a tiny fraction of the cost of hand building them. Also, the aerospace folks do destructive testing and careful QA. That's always hard on a hand built project. I'm not trying to be critical in the slightest, but there are some pretty amazing things out there off the shelf.

 

BV

 

I will ask the guys why we didn't look at them........they usually have good reasons, but who knows?

 

Thanks Beau!

 

Kim

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

It allows you to engineer in just the properties you need.

 

Exactly, and because these panels are all part of the structural elements of the design we need what we need (fancy inserts and such.)

Are these flat panels for the interior athwart ship and fore and aft bulkheads and furniture?

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

 

I get the impression the are trying to do as much as possible in house. This is a boatbuilding class right?

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

It allows you to engineer in just the properties you need.

 

Exactly, and because these panels are all part of the structural elements of the design we need what we need (fancy inserts and such.)

Are these flat panels for the interior athwart ship and fore and aft bulkheads and furniture?

 

Bulkheads and berth-fronts and other structural bits and pieces.

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

 

I get the impression the are trying to do as much as possible in house. This is a boatbuilding class right?

 

Flat panels are being built at the CNC shop but the students will participate. Then the various pieces will get cut out on the CNC machine in kind of a kit form for the students to assemble.

 

The main body of the interior will be assembled on a strong-back next to the hull and then dropped into the hull in one piece.

 

I am told it will all fit together because it all comes from the same computer file............

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kim...this is where the construction details get very interesting...for those of us that enjoy a beer or three in the evening, we must evaluate them in the earlier day time hours. :rolleyes:

 

Keep up the good work and thanks for the detailed pics.

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kimb,

 

You guys are building flat panels yourself?? Why not use some off the shelf stuff? I'm certain you have a good reason.

 

BV

 

 

I get the impression the are trying to do as much as possible in house. This is a boatbuilding class right?

 

Flat panels are being built at the CNC shop but the students will participate. Then the various pieces will get cut out on the CNC machine in kind of a kit form for the students to assemble.

 

The main body of the interior will be assembled on a strong-back next to the hull and then dropped into the hull in one piece.

 

I am told it will all fit together because it all comes from the same computer file............

 

Really looking forward to the pics of that.

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Really looking forward to the pics of that.

 

OK, here is the best I can do for now, right out of the Rhino CAD file. These drawings show the items that Brandon is making (foam core composite) and as you can see the middle section can be assembled into one big assembly. It will be be built up on a strong back next to the boat and then dropped in the hull as one piece. The last drawing shows the additional structure of the stringers (which will be foam core composite) as they tie the additional bulkheads into the interior structure to form a single structural interior.

 

Edit: of course the one piece foam core deck/cabin/cockpit will add much stiffness when it gets added to the hull after the interior gets installed.

Sliver Interior Structure.pdf

Sliver Interior Structure 2.pdf

Sliver Interior Structure with stringers.pdf

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Kimb,

 

I'm struck by a couple of things from the Rino Drawings of the bulkheads. First, how similar this is to the way that S'agapo is built. In each case all the various bits of furniture are contributing to the strength of the hull and allowing the designers to avoid old-school ribs, frames and floors. Second, how much of the various "loads" must be carried by the skin of the hull. It's really quite wonderful engineering.

 

Beau

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Kimb,

 

I'm struck by a couple of things from the Rino Drawings of the bulkheads. First, how similar this is to the way that S'agapo is built. In each case all the various bits of furniture are contributing to the strength of the hull and allowing the designers to avoid old-school ribs, frames and floors. Second, how much of the various "loads" must be carried by the skin of the hull. It's really quite wonderful engineering.

 

Beau

 

The keel loads will be transferred from the fin to the stainless steel floors that are attached to the middle interior assembly not directly to the hull. This will spread that load out further instead on concentrating them at one smaller area on the hull. The mast step will also have a grid connected to the interior structure to spread out the mast compression loads. The chain plates will be attached to bulkheads in the middle section of the interior.

 

This drawing shown from looking up from the bottom shows the various grids (and the saildrive engine bed)

 

Edit: I am getting dangerous now that I have figured out how to get PDF's out of Rhino.

Keel Grid Mast Step and Engine bed.pdf

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Hey Kimb - No Monday update? Productivity at my office was way too high yesterday without any nice pics to look at! :o

 

I need my fix!

 

Not too much to show because the school is on Spring Break.

 

However I do have some pics of the cockpit progress which I will post maybe tonight (don't have them here with me)

 

Lots of discussion on keel fin and lead bulb going on, but not much to report on that front.

 

I did purchase the Kindle version of Bob's book yesterday to run on my i Pad Kindle application. Kind of cool to be able to refer to his book when traveling. That was my first Kindle purchase. I looked for "The Common Sense of Yacht Design" and the "Encyclopedia of Yacht Design" in the Kindle Store, but alas those classics are not yet available.

 

I will try and find something good to post in my camera.

 

Thanks for the interest in my project.

 

(ND, please post some pictures of your project.)

 

Kim

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Thanks Kimb! Pics of the Sliver Project are one of the fews things I look forward to on Mondays at work. At least until May when beercan racing starts Tuesday nights.

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Kimb,

 

To return to the keel mounting SSteel frame your using. Here's the bilge of S'agapo. Note the steel plate that runs from one frame forward of the mast step all the way back to one frame aft of the keel. The engine is too far aft, and also not heavy (18hp), so it wasn't "tied in". Interesting solutions to similar problems.

 

BV

 

 

6079444483_90a1cdc386.jpg

Keel Plate - S'agapo by bvrolyk, on Flickr

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Kim:

Thanks for buying my runaway best selling book.

The only money I have made on it apart from the royalty advance is the lump they gave me when they put it on Kindle.

I'm still hoping to sell the movie rights. But I can't figure out how to segue the young Bob, Aston Kuchar, into the old Bob Christopher Walkin. Too bad Walter Brennan is dead.

 

BV:

Do you clean your bilge with Q Tips?

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Kimb,

 

To return to the keel mounting SSteel frame your using. Here's the bilge of S'agapo. Note the steel plate that runs from one frame forward of the mast step all the way back to one frame aft of the keel. The engine is too far aft, and also not heavy (18hp), so it wasn't "tied in". Interesting solutions to similar problems.

 

BV

 

Here is Sliver's as designed by Tim Nolan

PDF keel and SS floors.pdf

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Kimb,

 

Great view of the keel stuff. Nicely done. I especially like the end plate at the bottom for the lead to go around. It'll let someone inspect the fabrication prior to having it disappear into the lead, nice idea. Designing a blade/bulb keel has had a LOT of discussion since the Rambler failure, which reminds me of the "discussion" that happened after Charlie lost her keel coming home from Hawaii. We sailors never learn. But yours looks nice and strong!

 

 

Bob,

 

There is a God Damn Fresh Water Leak someplace in the boat that I haven't been able to track down and it keeps "washing" my bilge for me. Thus, the open floorboards. If I leave the water in there, it makes mold. So, yup, I wash it out after every rainstorm with a sponge. I have narrowed the culprit down to the stb aft chainplate and a life line stanchion base behind a bit of furniture. That latter one will be a bitch to get to. Also, I'm beginning to suspect the halyard sheaves at the front edge of the mast.

 

I hate mold! When I bought S'agapo she had been sitting around for over two years without any care at all and there was mold everywhere. A solid week with Simple Green and a scotch bright got it all off. Now I'm just keeping it off.

 

BV

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Kimb,

 

Great view of the keel stuff. Nicely done. I especially like the end plate at the bottom for the lead to go around. It'll let someone inspect the fabrication prior to having it disappear into the lead, nice idea. Designing a blade/bulb keel has had a LOT of discussion since the Rambler failure, which reminds me of the "discussion" that happened after Charlie lost her keel coming home from Hawaii. We sailors never learn. But yours looks nice and strong!

 

 

Bob,

 

There is a God Damn Fresh Water Leak someplace in the boat that I haven't been able to track down and it keeps "washing" my bilge for me. Thus, the open floorboards. .................. I have narrowed the culprit down to ................. and a life line stanchion base behind a bit of furniture. That latter one will be a bitch to get to...........

BV

 

Another reason I don't like lifelines and don't want them on my boat.

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Bob,

 

Old age and Rock-n-Rolllll has numbed my hearing to the point that I just roll the window down and ignore the squeaks. Age has its advantages - not many but some - and I'm looking for 'em all.

 

 

Kimb,

 

Sadly, for offshore racing, I'm going the other direction. The bow-pulpit arrives next week and then I'll ISAF and ORR compliant with "real" lifelines. They'll all be removable, of course. But the bases will be there LEAKING!!! Damn it!

 

B

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Kimb,

 

Great view of the keel stuff. Nicely done. I especially like the end plate at the bottom for the lead to go around. It'll let someone inspect the fabrication prior to having it disappear into the lead, nice idea. Designing a blade/bulb keel has had a LOT of discussion since the Rambler failure, which reminds me of the "discussion" that happened after Charlie lost her keel coming home from Hawaii. We sailors never learn. But yours looks nice and strong!

 

 

Bob,

 

There is a God Damn Fresh Water Leak someplace in the boat that I haven't been able to track down and it keeps "washing" my bilge for me. Thus, the open floorboards. If I leave the water in there, it makes mold. So, yup, I wash it out after every rainstorm with a sponge. I have narrowed the culprit down to the stb aft chainplate and a life line stanchion base behind a bit of furniture. That latter one will be a bitch to get to. Also, I'm beginning to suspect the halyard sheaves at the front edge of the mast.

 

I hate mold! When I bought S'agapo she had been sitting around for over two years without any care at all and there was mold everywhere. A solid week with Simple Green and a scotch bright got it all off. Now I'm just keeping it off.

 

BV

yup....why it IS the source and WHY it leaks.

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BV:

It's probably out of place to say this but I'll just give you a quote from my favorite movie:

"You're just going to have to buck up and face the fact that your're stinking rich."

 

When you come up here, we'll buy a bottle of the single malt and watch the movie together.

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LOL - Bob, you're ON! My problem, among many, is that I'm too damn cheap to hire the carpenter to tear out the furniture and fix the leak. So, to borrow some lines from the "If I worked at a boat yard I'd wanta be a midget" thread: I'm cramming my head into a locker along with a wrench and trying to get a grip on the nuts. Wishing all the time I was a LOT smaller.

 

WOW, that didn't sound exactly how I intended it. I'll have to be carefully about phrasing....

 

I'll take you up on that single malt and the movie. Someday, we'll be anchored off your beach, someday, I keep promising myself.

 

BV

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I'll take you up on that single malt and the movie. Someday, we'll be anchored off your beach, someday, I keep promising myself.

BV

 

Rafted to the "Sliver"..........

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Cockpit progress before the Spring Break. It was pretty quiet yesterday when I visited. Bruce was building the strong-back for the interior module that will be underway soon.

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Cockpit progress before the Spring Break. It was pretty quiet yesterday when I visited. Bruce was building the strong-back for the interior module that will be underway soon.

 

Be careful which thread you post these in, Kim -- one of those pics looks alarmingly like a hot tub.

 

Never know what that could elicit around here...

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Kimb,

 

Is there a big-ass diesel heater to warm the water that fills that aft cockpit well? It looks like a PERFECT hot tub!! YA! I suppose that bridge deck structure is to keep the riffraff away from the Skipper while he's doing his manly duty as helmsman??

 

Beau

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Kimb,

 

Is there a big-ass diesel heater to warm the water that fills that aft cockpit well? It looks like a PERFECT hot tub!! YA! I suppose that bridge deck structure is to keep the riffraff away from the Skipper while he's doing his manly duty as helmsman??

 

Beau

 

Yes, I need my OWN cockpit,................................but like everything else I suspect SWMBO will take that over too.

 

We have a saying in our house: what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.

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Yes, I need my OWN cockpit,................................but like everything else I suspect SWMBO will take that over too.

 

We have a saying in our house: what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.

 

Reminds me of a Lyle Lovett lyric

 

The preacher asked her

And she said, "I do"

The preacher asked me

She said "Yes, he does too"

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Kimb,

 

Is there a big-ass diesel heater to warm the water that fills that aft cockpit well? It looks like a PERFECT hot tub!! YA! I suppose that bridge deck structure is to keep the riffraff away from the Skipper while he's doing his manly duty as helmsman??

 

Beau

 

Yes, I need my OWN cockpit,................................but like everything else I suspect SWMBO will take that over too.

 

We have a saying in our house: what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.

 

 

Funny,

 

We have the same saying here.

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Kimb,

 

Is there a big-ass diesel heater to warm the water that fills that aft cockpit well? It looks like a PERFECT hot tub!! YA! I suppose that bridge deck structure is to keep the riffraff away from the Skipper while he's doing his manly duty as helmsman??

 

Beau

 

Yes, I need my OWN cockpit,................................but like everything else I suspect SWMBO will take that over too.

 

We have a saying in our house: what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.

 

 

Funny,

 

We have the same saying here.

 

But after 44 great years with her I am not complaining nor would I want it any other way.

 

After-all I am the one who spoils her so I am the one who created the situation.

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You guys need to HTFU & take control of your women. I told Mrs. Bitches she can have whatever project she wants going on (obviously looking at the picture below it is furniture refinishing), but I want enough room for my car in the garage on school nights.

 

And yes, to help her out, the brown goop on the edges is West System & 407 filler on her "restoration project" that I mixed & applied today. But, it is all on her side of the garage, so her car spends the night in the out-of-doors.

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You guys need to HTFU & take control of your women. I told Mrs. Bitches she can have whatever project she wants going on (obviously looking at the picture below it is furniture refinishing), but I want enough room for my car in the garage on school nights.

 

And yes, to help her out, the brown goop on the edges is West System & 407 filler on her "restoration project" that I mixed & applied today. But, it is all on her side of the garage, so her car spends the night in the out-of-doors.

As my grandfather always said... the man who says he's in charge at home will lie about other things, too. B)

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Kimb,

 

Is there a big-ass diesel heater to warm the water that fills that aft cockpit well? It looks like a PERFECT hot tub!! YA! I suppose that bridge deck structure is to keep the riffraff away from the Skipper while he's doing his manly duty as helmsman??

 

Beau

 

Yes, I need my OWN cockpit,................................but like everything else I suspect SWMBO will take that over too.

 

We have a saying in our house: what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.

 

 

Funny,

 

We have the same saying here.

 

But after 44 great years with her I am not complaining nor would I want it any other way.

 

After-all I am the one who spoils her so I am the one who created the situation.

 

I like a man who takes responsibility for the mess he's made - she's one very nice mess!

 

B

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I visited the project this morning. Not a lot has happened as it is Spring Break for the students. Bruce worked some on the interior module strong back, Jordan is working on the cockpit and Student Cooper showed up on his own time to help Jordan (extra credit stars to Cooper!)

 

The hull looks wide when you are down in her with a lens that foreshortens the shot.

 

I spent time this morning sitting in the hull thinking about Spike.

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Then I visited Brandon at Turn Point Design where they are setting up the tool to make the flat panels for the bulkheads and interior pieces.The last shot is the box of divinycell foam waiting to be infused into the flat panels.

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1334850341[/url]' post='3679392']

I believe Kim's in Key West, based on a post in another thread.

 

Now in Miami Beach...........should have some Sliver news next week when I return to the great pacific northwest....

SWMBO said she had never seen Southern Florida and I had this business trip to DelRay Beach and she extended it for a bit to explore.

I miss my boat project........

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1334859159[/url]' post='3679659']

Kim:

Thanks for thinking of Spike. I was thinking about him this morning too. I clean his glasses each morning. Just in case.

 

Yeah, I think of him often........the Sliver project is dedicated to my late Dad and to Spike, hopefully the two of them are watching the project together, they would get along great, they are both American Originals.......

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Phew! I just read this whole thread in one sitting, and my eyes are spinning.

 

Let's see. I now know more about contemporary wooden boat building, otters, FG lamination, wine, BP's diet, power cats, eagles, VW diesels, bicycles, more eagles, the list goes on and on.

 

Wonderful thread, actually very exciting to read. Thanks all for your contributions, esp KimB for recording this adventure for all of us.

 

She's sure gonna be a striking lady.

 

R

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OK, SWMBO and I have returned from our South Florida trip. Part business and part goofing off. We had a great time, but Florida sure is FLAT! It was a bit difficult to adjust given our living in the Pacific NW surrounded by mountains.

 

In any event I visited the boat today. They have finished all of the glassing of the cockpit area.Of course the view you see is the underside of the cockpit and will only be viewed by the Yanmar diesel, so although they will be cleaning it up and fairing it somewhat they won't be doing the super fairing job they are doing in other places on the Sliver.

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Meanwhile Fred the unsung hero of fairing continues to fair the inside of the hull. He marked out the limits of the accessible interior and he will do the super job on it and the very good job everywhere else.

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Here are some random shop views to give you an idea of how clean the School keeps its facility. Bruce brings his commuter bike inside even though it was sunny and 70 today.

 

The interior midsection strong-back is set up and waiting for the interior pieces from the CNC shop.

 

And then there is that cool Joel White designed packet waiting for a buyer.

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The crew has placed the form on the deck mold to allow for the recess necessary to keep the deck to hull joint smooth. I was glad to see this because the deck mold always looked wide to me.....the actula edge of the deck is just three inches out from the top of the bevel.

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