kimbottles

Perry Sliver Class Day Sailor

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In order to keep the keel fin to hull fillet as small as possible it has been decided (with the blessing of our engineer Tim Nolan) to counter sink the keel bolt holes a little bit to reduce the amount the keel bolts protrude, so the fin got moved to the machine shop for drilling. GreatDane28 (on his first day at the new job) got to assist in setting up the 1730 pound fin on the work bench for drilling.

 

BTW, after all said and done the entire fin/bulb assembly came in spot on the original design weight. (I have to weigh the bulb drilling template to get it to an exact number, but it is less than 50 pounds in 9100 pounds. Let's see, that is like 0.55%. So I guess we did OK after-all. (Bob and I will now stop fussing with our weight study.)

 

I don't have the final drilling invoice yet, but it appears we saved money doing the fin/bulb assembly locally. (And we did not have to ship anything.)

 

Another good reason to "strut" around.

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That's a better picture. I figured it had to be there but for the life of me couldn't see it. It may be a rum issue?

 

It looks great Kim.

 

Awlgrip or Awlcraft?

 

 

The laugh16 photo makes it look like the winch island is only on the starboard side. Had to do a double take, I was wondering if Kim was going too far with the "keep it simple" and was only going to trim headsails with one winch? :blink:

 

Is this a better shot to ease your fears? Primaries on both sides of the cockpit.....

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Poor guys! Bet they wish they had a crack at this while it was still up side down.

 

So this morning I stop by and what do I find? Long boarding!

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That's a better picture. I figured it had to be there but for the life of me couldn't see it. It may be a rum issue?

 

It looks great Kim.

 

Awlgrip or Awlcraft?

 

 

The laugh16 photo makes it look like the winch island is only on the starboard side. Had to do a double take, I was wondering if Kim was going too far with the "keep it simple" and was only going to trim headsails with one winch? :blink:

 

Is this a better shot to ease your fears? Primaries on both sides of the cockpit.....

Probably Awlcraft because it is easily repairable (so I am told), but the primer is West System epoxy primer in any event.

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Thanks Jon. I look forward to the day Kim takes you for a sail.

 

We have decided to paint the spar in a faux wood finish. After a long debate we are going to have it painted to look like bamboo.

 

I hear rain on my roof.

Me too.

 

The Bamboo is a great idea - then you can make the boats symbol a fingernail with a bamboo splinter under it. ;):D

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So this morning I stop by and what do I find? Long boarding!

I wonder if there's ever been another 65' boat that could be entirely longboarded while standing on the shop floor?

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So this morning I stop by and what do I find? Long boarding!

I wonder if there's ever been another 65' boat that could be entirely longboarded while standing on the shop floor?

 

 

If you just un-ship the keel many large boats could be done this way. (and BTW, she is only 61.96' long overall.)

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All right you smart asses. They will only long board down just past the DWL. So they don't have to crawl under the boat and work upside down. I know because I asked.

 

Jon: I really like the bamboo sliver under the fingernail spinnaker logo. Very East Coast traditional.

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Kim, we're Awlcraft, which is essentially Imron, We are very happy with it. It' softer then Awlgrip but I like that I can buff out light scratches and it is repairable. We went with Matterhorn White, which is the same color Hatteras paints all their boats, so it should be available.

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Kim, we're Awlcraft, which is essentially Imron, We are very happy with it. It' softer then Awlgrip but I like that I can buff out light scratches and it is repairable. We went with Matterhorn White, which is the same color Hatteras paints all their boats, so it should be available.

 

Yup, that is what we are going to do on the Francis Lee. We will have to raft up together someday and compare paint......

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Awlcraft is Imron??

 

Imron is great paint. Good choice.

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Kim, we're Awlcraft, which is essentially Imron, We are very happy with it. It' softer then Awlgrip but I like that I can buff out light scratches and it is repairable. We went with Matterhorn White, which is the same color Hatteras paints all their boats, so it should be available.

 

Yup, that is what we are going to do on the Francis Lee. We will have to raft up together someday and compare paint......

Amati's Matterhorn White. Still looks great- 3 boats then...

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So this morning I stop by and what do I find? Long boarding!

I wonder if there's ever been another 65' boat that could be entirely longboarded while standing on the shop floor?

The question is were they sanding out a guide coat :huh:

 

I'm guessing the reflections will be unreal.

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Still, I could sit in a chair, off to the side, put on my earphones, plug in THE RING CYCLE, light my pipe and settle in to watch the pros do it. But I don;t think they would let me smoke my pipe in the building.

Gives a new meaning to Wotan's "Leb wohl, du kühnes, herrliches bump!" I have to ask what's the Bob Perry approved Ring Cycle?

 

Kim: The boat looks great. So close to having her in the water. I imagine you're already planning short overnight trips or picnics.

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Bob - "Longboarding is for people half your age" I'm sorry but he was being way too diplomatic.

 

But I do have a serious question that seems more relevent now that the hull has been completed;

 

I may be out of date (mid to late 80's if I'm honest) but the last time I checked we had a Designer who had a shit load of empirical design knowledge from the real world of what worked in double-ender design. We had a client who just wanted the best sailing boat he could single hand,and loved your designs.

 

The only compromises I remember were you convincing Kim B to put some furniture in the boat so his grandkids would have somewhere to party and a Rigger saying a 2nd hand Farr 40 rig was close enough to your design to save building a custom carbon rig.

 

The question I have is "Should I pay any attention to the CFD guys who spent a coupla semesters learning programming that included 'Hydronautics and Aerostatics-101' -programmes available for a small fortune or from a consultant near you ?

 

The reason I mention this is because on your Blog (which I can't seem to find anymore) you mentioned an acquaintance who designed a new rudder for a fat arsed racing boat that was based on a whale fluke (sort of)that helped a lot according to the owner.

 

What I propose is a simple test- Kim gets the boat into the water and dials it in so it handles to the best of his not inconsiderable experience.Somebody turns up with a rudder that has the same average chord and draft but with the knobbly bits that make it special,now this is the hard bit,Bob gives them enough details so they can design the rudder from first principles according to their programme.

 

So what we have is a boat not built to any rating,commissioned by somebody who knows what they are talking about.There are 3 rudder options as to what works best, let Kim decide

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Fine. I'm for the boat having the very best rudder. The current rudder is a rudder I designed for FREE RANGE CHICKEN. Kim got a good deal on it. It's big and should do the job just fine. I would not have the new rudders be limited to the chord and span of the existing rudder. This experiment would not be without expense. Who pays for the haul outs?

 

Ring Cycle preference? Furtwangler of course,, on vinyl.

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Bob - "Longboarding is for people half your age"

Shhhhh....don't tell these guys.

 

 

 

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So Bob,I Commission you to build the fuck-off boat of my dreams and you just drag out old stuff from the files and mix and match till it looks ok.

 

I know that's how it used to work for Chappelle , Garderner et al but I must admit I am slightly disillusioned.

 

xxx

 

Rob

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Rob:

I have no idea what you are talking about. I thought we were discussing a rudder trial.

 

I always start with a clean sheet. Even a cursory look at my body of work would prove that.

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Still, I could sit in a chair, off to the side, put on my earphones, plug in THE RING CYCLE, light my pipe and settle in to watch the pros do it. But I don;t think they would let me smoke my pipe in the building.

Gives a new meaning to Wotan's "Leb wohl, du kühnes, herrliches bump!" I have to ask what's the Bob Perry approved Ring Cycle?

 

Kim: The boat looks great. So close to having her in the water. I imagine you're already planning short overnight trips or picnics.

 

No overnighting - it's a daysailer.

 

Romain

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Ring Cycle preference? Furtwangler of course,, on vinyl.

That just raises more questions: 1950 Scala or 1953 Rome? Either way, Furtwängler is king.

 

More on topic. How do you determine if the mast from a Farr 40 is a good fit? Sail area alone can't be enough. I'd imagine that the boats need to have similar righting moments so that the loads are similar. Do you determine this by comparing the righting moment to that of a Farr 40 or by checking the sectional moment of inertia? Neither of those seem like easy values to get a hold of.

 

 

 

Still, I could sit in a chair, off to the side, put on my earphones, plug in THE RING CYCLE, light my pipe and settle in to watch the pros do it. But I don;t think they would let me smoke my pipe in the building.

Gives a new meaning to Wotan's "Leb wohl, du kühnes, herrliches bump!" I have to ask what's the Bob Perry approved Ring Cycle?

 

Kim: The boat looks great. So close to having her in the water. I imagine you're already planning short overnight trips or picnics.

 

No overnighting - it's a daysailer.

 

Romain

With a cabin that spacious and pleasant, the temptation will be strong...

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a Rigger saying a 2nd hand Farr 40 rig was close enough

 

Now there's a rigger who knows his trade....seems like a lot fore thought went into this job.

 

I can imagine Bob and Kim's converstation.....

 

The numbers look pretty good....OK let' see how if looks.... Christmas!....Look at that!.... Sweet! .....High Five!

 

No different then choosing an engine for a vehicle. Hmmm do I want to drop 260, 289 or 302 in it.

 

Shall I go with just keep the two bolt main 350 or get a four bolt main 350...or do we want to build that four bolt main into a 383 stroker.

 

That 383 is gonna need some rubber....may as well tub it and give it some big meats.

 

Erchells 30 is a decent tune-able rig, known more then a few boats have used the rig either in the primary design, such as the J-24 and more then a few custom boats..

 

Known owners of Ranger 23's who choose to use the fractional Etchells 30 rig, others choose the Santa Cruz 27 rig.

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Milo:

I have the '53 Rome recording on vinyl. I have never heard the '50 Scala.At some point the old recordings becoime a challenge for me due to lack of fidelity. There is only so muh surface noise I can stand. The '53 recording is monophonic but very good. My copy is pristine. It was a gift from TomL who used to post here.

 

On topic: Yes you are correct. The sailmaker suggested the Farr rig and like the rudder it was close enough and presented an opportunity to save some serious money. I compared Rm's and several other factors before proceeding with it. It doesn' hurt that I have friends in the Farr ofice. They were very helpful providing data and drawings.

 

Romain:

The boat will have an anchor roller fitting that can go either on the bow or the stern as per Kim's request. The interior will be very comfortable with full standing headroom for tall guys ,like me and Kim and Kim's boys.

I suspect the boat will do some cruising. It's hard not to go cruising around here.

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So this morning I stop by and what do I find? Long boarding!

 

I wonder if there's ever been another 65' boat that could be entirely longboarded while standing on the shop floor?
The question is were they sanding out a guide coat :huh:

 

I'm guessing the reflections will be unreal.

Yes guide coat

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Kim, we're Awlcraft, which is essentially Imron, We are very happy with it. It' softer then Awlgrip but I like that I can buff out light scratches and it is repairable. We went with Matterhorn White, which is the same color Hatteras paints all their boats, so it should be available.

 

Yup, that is what we are going to do on the Francis Lee. We will have to raft up together someday and compare paint......

Amati's Matterhorn White. Still looks great- 3 boats then...

Amati always welcomed

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Appologize for not being up to date in this thread,the only copies I have of the cycle are cd's of Karl Bohm (67) Bayreueth-Die Walkure and I know I have Lohengrin somewhere but I can't find it.

P.S I'm not a redneck with a Nam fixation.

 

Back on topic

 

"the current rudder was designed for 'FREE RANGE CHICKEN'"

 

" I would not have the new rudders be limited to the chord and span of the existing rudder. "

(I suggested one to be the same size but with the knobbly bits just as a comparison,one as a new-build to optimal specs.)

 

This is your 'clean sheet', am I missing something ?

 

I do think it is a good looking boat that will have great sailing abilities,which is why I'm asking these questions!

 

Rob

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Tri:

Yes, you are missing something. You need to read the thread more carefully. It's all there. But for you, here it is again:

 

The owner of FRC thought there was a problem with the original rudder. I assurred him that is was very close to all the other rudders I had done for similar size and type boats. But he wanted a new rudder so we designed him a new rudder and it was installed. But the problem was still there and was eventually found to be a bearing issue. I had said that all along. So now we had a virtually new rudder sitting at Westerly. Kim was looking into the build details of his CF rudder and called Westerly. They said they had a rudder sitting there that was the same size as I had designed for the SLIVER and they would sell it at a very attractive price. So we compared the FRC rudder to what I had drawn for the SLIVER and dceided that it was close enough and at the price offerred it would be a good way to save money. Same with the Farr 40 rig.

 

If I were to entertain an alternative rudder from a different designer I would prefer to give that designer a free hand. Maybe that's not the test you had in mind. I can see the value of your test. But essentially I have already done that on ICON and the "knobs" seem to have worked according to the owner. That rudder was a more high aspect ratio shape than the rudder we have for the SLIVER and hung on a wide stern. The two sterns could not be more different.

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So Bob,I Commission you to build the fuck-off boat of my dreams and you just drag out old stuff from the files and mix and match till it looks ok.I know that's how it used to work for Chappelle , Garderner et al but I must admit I am slightly disillusioned.xxxRob

Having been there every step of the way I can confirm there was no going to the files to mix and match. Bob did start anew with this design and we argued and discussed every little detail, but it helped much that he and I tend to agree on almost every detail.

 

The rudder was checked carefully when it became available and Bob determined it was slight overkill but would fit the design very well. It helped that the rudder was one of his designs so he could check it via the original drawings. So why not save a bunch of money and get a rudder that is slightly oversized for the job? (Free Range Chicken is quite a bit heavier than the Francis Lee so we have a stronger rudder than we need.)

 

The idea of a Farr 40 mast was there before I started the process, my good friend Kiwi Bruce MacPherson suggested using a Farr 40 rig when I first started to talk about doing a custom boat. The Farr 40 rig is very close to what Bob originally drew for the design. And the Farr office was very kind in giving Bob access to their knowledge (and if I am not mistaken even gave him their drawings.) So we were able to make sure the mast was a great fit for the design after Bob Pistay found a good one off of the Farr 40 "Sled" in Newport R.I.

 

Bob spend quite a bit of time on the hull lines. There must have been 12 or 15 different renditions until Bob was satisfied he had gotten it right. He had a very specific idea of "pushing displacement to the ends" and he pursued it until he got it where he wanted it.

 

It helps that Bob and I have been friends for 30 years, he worked with my son Derek when Derek was the paid skipper of the Mighty Atalanta years ago, so I knew what I was getting with Bob and it has been a marvelous journey together. Bob is a kick to work with and I always enjoy his project visits.

 

I could tell from his smile that he is very happy with this project and so am I. If you look at Bob's previous work I think you will find that this design is quite unique.

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I guess now that you have seen so many photos of the hull it doesnt hurt to let you see the lines. I did eight sets of lines before Kim and I were both happy. This means I plotted eight sets of lines. There were countless versions in between the versions I plotted that just got discarded. I'm always seeing omething I want to change. But in time we setlled on Rev 8. This shows the FRC rudder.

study lines.pdf

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Kim: I in no way wished to denigrate the project that you started ,I was purely responding to the feedback I got from Bob without the background knowledge of the previous 3 dozen or so of pages.Mea Culpa.

 

Bob; I'm sorry if I cast aspersions on your character but I still believe the original question is valid.Can somebody who has spent 50 weeks learning CFD,design a better rudder than someone who has spent 50 years seeing what works in real life? ICON doesn't really count as ,lets be honest, you are better known for your double-enders than your fat-arsed surf board open class racers,and I want to see if someone can beat you at what you do best.

 

Rob

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Rob:

 

You are starting to do a lot of apologizing. Reminds me of my very favorite Steve Martin quote:

"Some people have a way with words. Other people not have way."

 

I have no idea what the answer to your question is. It's a broad question. I think the only intelligent answer would be, "That depends on exactly who the person is with 50 weeks of CFD training." Four years of college certainly turns out people with wildly different abilities. There are even some smart people who need no formal training.

 

Here is an example:

If you read my book I think there is a section there about rudders and Dennis Choate's "rudder door". This is a big, rough, plywood door to his surfboard building shed within his shop. On this door are numerous profiles of rudders he has built over the years. Dennis can point to a profile, name the boat and give you the exact history of that rudder, why it worked or why it didn't work. Then he can point to the profile of the replacement rudder. This is a valuable door. It stores a lot of "rudder files" and real boat experiences.

 

Can someone working on a CFD program with no hands on rudder design experience come up with a better rudder than Dennis Choate's door? That would depend on the person.

 

So my definitive answer is:

Maybe.

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I guess now that you have seen so many photos of the hull it doesnt hurt to let you see the lines. I did eight sets of lines before Kim and I were both happy. This means I plotted eight sets of lines. There were countless versions in between the versions I plotted that just got discarded. I'm always seeing omething I want to change. But in time we setlled on Rev 8. This shows the FRC rudder.

purty lahns. vury vury purty.

 

I am now wondering where the rest of Amati is lying around. Here stern! Here stern!

 

"Yes officer! I'm looking for the rest of my boat! It's pointy! You'll let me know? Thanks! What? Yes, I've already looked in Ballard and Portland. Yes? OK!"

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What would Dennis Choate have to say about that? ;)

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The back fell off!

 

Jon:

If you mean what would Dennis have to say about my post? I think I can say with certainty that he would be fine with it. Dennis is not a bullshitter and has zero time for bull shitters and is never afraid to call bull shit. I think you would like him.

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Appologize for not being up to date in this thread,the only copies I have of the cycle are cd's of Karl Bohm (67) Bayreueth-Die Walkure and I know I have Lohengrin somewhere but I can't find it.

P.S I'm not a redneck with a Nam fixation.

 

Back on topic

 

"the current rudder was designed for 'FREE RANGE CHICKEN'"

 

" I would not have the new rudders be limited to the chord and span of the existing rudder. "

(I suggested one to be the same size but with the knobbly bits just as a comparison,one as a new-build to optimal specs.)

 

This is your 'clean sheet', am I missing something ?

 

I do think it is a good looking boat that will have great sailing abilities,which is why I'm asking these questions!

 

Rob

 

Utilizing existing hardware, rigging etc. in a new design has a long and honourable history. Locally, the little Swiftsure 24 Quarter Tonner was designed under a Soling rig, Bill Garden designed his personal schooner Toadstool around a Thunderbird keel he had been given. He also designed Tlingit to take max advantage of a freshly rebuilt antique Easthope engine they had on hand.

 

We've all seen those floating abortions that were built and/or outfitted with whatever was laying around but it doesn't have to be like that.

 

Utilizing rigs from top level racing series is a particularly smart thing to do. You can save 10's of $thousands on the rig initially and thereafter you have a great supply of one year old sails available cheap from the top racers who replace them on a schedule, not when they are worn out.

 

Few people would require custom cleats or winches on a new design - what is different about rigs, rudders etc.?

 

As long as the gear is sized & shaped properly there is no reason to regard the boat as compromised in any way. Spending 10's of $thousands more just to make something "the same but different" is not smart.

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As a small deviation from the current topic...

What kind of bearings are you planning to use for the rudder?

My only experience has been with jefa bearings on my Beneteau 36.7. Both upper and lower bearings are seff aligning and help with avoiding issues caused by the rudder shaft deflecting under load. I had a problem with binding that turned out to be an issue with the bearing housing for the lower bearing. It was anodized aluminum and semi submerged in the slip. The lower bearing got bound up by a little corrosion and algae like marine growth. After hauling the boat i removed the housing and replaced it with stainles steel housing made locally. Jefa was great about sending the housing specs and drawings to my CNC fabricator. It appears that the aluminum housing was supplied and installed by Beneteau, so the issue was not with the design or bearings. I've had no problem since.

I did add a tapped fitting in the rudder tube so I can flush the tube, lower bearing and housing with fresh water if the boat has been sitting for a while.

I'm curious about what you chose and what other systems Bob has used and how they perform over time.

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As a small deviation from the current topic...

What kind of bearings are you planning to use for the rudder?

My only experience has been with jefa bearings on my Beneteau 36.7. Both upper and lower bearings are seff aligning and help with avoiding issues caused by the rudder shaft deflecting under load. I had a problem with binding that turned out to be an issue with the bearing housing for the lower bearing. It was anodized aluminum and semi submerged in the slip. The lower bearing got bound up by a little corrosion and algae like marine growth. After hauling the boat i removed the housing and replaced it with stainles steel housing made locally. Jefa was great about sending the housing specs and drawings to my CNC fabricator. It appears that the aluminum housing was supplied and installed by Beneteau, so the issue was not with the design or bearings. I've had no problem since.

I did add a tapped fitting in the rudder tube so I can flush the tube, lower bearing and housing with fresh water if the boat has been sitting for a while.

I'm curious about what you chose and what other systems Bob has used and how they perform over time.

We are using Jefa bearings and Jefa tiller fittings on our carbon fiber rudder stock so we have to isolate the SS from the carbon. We got it from PYI a local company where we also got our four blade feathering MaxiProp.

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The back fell off!

 

Jon:

If you mean what would Dennis have to say about my post? I think I can say with certainty that he would be fine with it. Dennis is not a bullshitter and has zero time for bull shitters and is never afraid to call bull shit. I think you would like him.

Dennis called bullshit on me after I said 'hello Dennis, Bob Perry wanted me to call you about a bid on a boat he's designing for my wife and me'. I look at it now as prophylactically calling bullshit.

 

Bracing, really.....

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The back fell off!

 

Jon:

If you mean what would Dennis have to say about my post? I think I can say with certainty that he would be fine with it. Dennis is not a bullshitter and has zero time for bull shitters and is never afraid to call bull shit. I think you would like him.

Dennis called bullshit on me after I said 'hello Dennis, Bob Perry wanted me to call you about a bid on a boat he's designing for my wife and me'. I look at it now as prophylactically calling bullshit.

 

Bracing, really.....

I called Dennis about the Sliver project and he just blew me off. Quoted me costs off the top of his head that were just crazy high. Pretty arrogant and very off putting. Basically acted like he would be doing me a great favor if I was lucky enough to have him agree to build my boat.

 

Lynn Bowser at Westerly was the opposite, very pleasant guy, if I had gone with a commercial yard it would have been Westerly ( or possibly Eric Jespersen in BC or Steve Rander in Portland.)

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Tim Ryan wanted to make sure we did not have a problem with all of the floating logs and debris in the water up here in the Salish Sea so he dug out some Kevlar and had GreatDane28 vacuum on a ramming section for our bow.

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I hope he did not fatten up that cutwater too much!

 

I like Jefa bearings.

 

One time Dennis told me "You are not welcome in my yard."

 

But I ignorred him. We are good friends.

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I hope he did not fatten up that cutwater too much!

 

He was aware of the need to keep it sharp.

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Forbid that a Perry design ended up with a bulb bow! Bob is right to be concerned. I think the guy that built the Flying Hawaiian 65x35 catamaran over in the other thread might have had some diamond plate aluminum that you could use for the cutwater.

 

Seriously, though, I once got stuck in irons just before the start of an Tornado Olympic Class race and had another competitor rake my bows at a pretty good clip as he reached down the line. Just lightly grazed them until the end of the main crossbeam hit that razor fine bow and took about 4 inches off. It was a beautiful cold molded Tornado and the damage hurt worse than losing the protest as I was deemed to be on port so I found some kevlar cloth and stripped the kevlar core out of an old halyard to make the repair. The resulting Kevlar stem took a bit of fairing back about a foot to not look all blunt and un-Tornado like and you might need to transition your patch out as well. I even did the other bow to match and let it be known that if the SOB that hit me the first time ever crossed my bows on port I would be more than happy to test out my 'hardened' bow. He never gave me the opportunity...

 

Your boat is looking great!

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God, Now all we are going to hear out of Kim on the boat is "Prepare for ramming speed!"

 

Youn guys just don't understand Dennis. Calling BS on you is his way of saying"Hi". Besides if Dennis didn't call BS on you you'd feel left out.

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The back fell off!

 

Jon:

If you mean what would Dennis have to say about my post? I think I can say with certainty that he would be fine with it. Dennis is not a bullshitter and has zero time for bull shitters and is never afraid to call bull shit. I think you would like him.

Dennis called bullshit on me after I said 'hello Dennis, Bob Perry wanted me to call you about a bid on a boat he's designing for my wife and me'. I look at it now as prophylactically calling bullshit.

 

Bracing, really.....

I called Dennis about the Sliver project and he just blew me off. Quoted me costs off the top of his head that were just crazy high. Pretty arrogant and very off putting. Basically acted like he would be doing me a great favor if I was lucky enough to have him agree to build my boat.

 

Lynn Bowser at Westerly was the opposite, very pleasant guy, if I had gone with a commercial yard it would have been Westerly ( or possibly Eric Jespersen in BC or Steve Rander in Portland.)

Lynn was nice, but lukewarm for some reason. Could have been all that AC stuff in the shed...

 

We chickened out what with currency fluctuation and the strategies to deal with that for non US builders. Steve and I went back a ways to sailing canoes, and he was crazy helpful with the whole thing. I like Sam Devlin a lot, but the quote was sinus clearing. Dropped in on some other local builders, like around Lake Union, Pt. Townsend (!) etc., and the lack of interest became a bit, um, puzzling. And then after she was built, most of them yelled at me for not giving them a chance.

 

We have never hit a deadhead on the nose. Either they bang along the fin bulb, or the long scrrrrrraaaaaatchhhh down the side of the hull. (But how far will the nose be from your helm? In feet B) ) An argument for keeping lazarettes clear of anything. Although it is amazing how fast you can empty one when the adrenaline is dumping into the circulation. If nothing else a good excuse to go through it all & throw some things out.

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Tim Ryan wanted to make sure we did not have a problem with all of the floating logs and debris in the water up here in the Salish Sea so he dug out some Kevlar and had GreatDane28 vacuum on a ramming section for our bow.

 

You will be going so fast that part of the bow will never be in the water.

 

Seriously though, our boat was built for two handed offshore racing.

It has a false floor in the forward compartment and a forward bulkhead, all sealed.

I would have thought most light boats would ride up on floating debris, its not like hitting a coral head which isn't going anywhere.

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This thread is a lot of work to keep up with. I am trying.

 

I've done some longboarding. I've never added kevlar to the cutwater..

 

I am not too far behind I hope. Kim, Awesome boat..thanks again for dragging us along.

 

Carry on. B)

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Old age and cunning will beat 50 weeks of CFD training and no experience any day.

 

CFD is just a tool. We design our boats based on our experience. We send something out for CFD analysis if, in our experience, we think it needs it.

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Tim Ryan wanted to make sure we did not have a problem with all of the floating logs and debris in the water up here in the Salish Sea so he dug out some Kevlar and had GreatDane28 vacuum on a ramming section for our bow.

I would have thought you would do that before priming?

 

BTW, the Cowmaran now has really nice stainless steel nose guards.

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Tim Ryan wanted to make sure we did not have a problem with all of the floating logs and debris in the water up here in the Salish Sea so he dug out some Kevlar and had GreatDane28 vacuum on a ramming section for our bow.

I would have thought you would do that before priming?

BTW, the Cowmaran now has really nice stainless steel nose guards.

I think they noticed during longboarding the "end grain" of the eGlass terminating each side of the cut water and were worried about water intrusion in the event of an impact.

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Kim..that makes sense...we will not talk about the areas where the gelcoat has popped, and there is visible glass under the waterline on my 4KSB that I just cover up with bottom paint because I don't want to deal with it. :unsure:

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Kim..that makes sense...we will not talk about the areas where the gelcoat has popped, and there is visible glass under the waterline on my 4KSB that I just cover up with bottom paint because I don't want to deal with it. :unsure:

 

I didn't hear anything..........nothing to talk about here..............

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Tim Ryan wanted to make sure we did not have a problem with all of the floating logs and debris in the water up here in the Salish Sea so he dug out some Kevlar and had GreatDane28 vacuum on a ramming section for our bow.

I would have thought you would do that before priming?

BTW, the Cowmaran now has really nice stainless steel nose guards.

So do we get any pictures of said nose guards??

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I have not seen them in person yet. The only pic is on the owner's Facebook page and I'm not sure whether the permissions are set for public viewing.

 

Let's see...

 

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Yikes! Are they sharpened? :rolleyes:

 

 

Nah, as I mentioned, I have not seen them in person yet. There's plenty of time to sharpen them up before manatee season.

 

In other Cowmaran-related news, there most likely will not be a bigger, cruising version. The owner bought a PDQ 34 power cat instead.

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That would be a study in contrast. Finishing nailer vs framing nailer.

 

 

 

Kim, we're Awlcraft, which is essentially Imron, We are very happy with it. It' softer then Awlgrip but I like that I can buff out light scratches and it is repairable. We went with Matterhorn White, which is the same color Hatteras paints all their boats, so it should be available.

 

Yup, that is what we are going to do on the Francis Lee. We will have to raft up together someday and compare paint......

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Erik Bentzen the insurance surveyor came by and really liked the boat. He knows many of the people who worked on her and he knows a lot about Farr 40 rigs so he was full of worthwhile information. (I seem to get good ideas from just about everyone who sees her.....)

 

Erik did not want to mar the hull, so even though his sounding hammer is soft he still wrapped it in a rag to protect the hull. I like a surveyor who goes that little extra bit.

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Come on.

You're not going to tell me he beat on the hull with a hammer?

Where is he parked?

 

Shit, I'm just going to have to sit there in that chair watching every fucking move from here on out.

Hammer.

 

Nice work on the cutwater. Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,makes me smile.

 

Where did that annoying guy go?

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Come on.

You're not going to tell me he beat on the hull with a hammer?

Where is he parked?

 

Shit, I'm just going to have to sit there in that chair watching every fucking move from here on out.

Hammer.

 

Nice work on the cutwater. Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,makes me smile.

 

Where did that annoying guy go?

It really was not beating, it was more a gentle tap..............

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Was he looking for de-lamination? On a new-build? Surely not.

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I think he was simply being a surveyor.

By the look on his face, he enjoyed his encounter with Francis Lee in any case. After all, what's not to like?

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He very much liked the boat and was impressed with the job the School did on her. He liked the design too which was interesting given the modern gran prix boats he works with....

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He very much liked the boat and was impressed with the job the School did on her. He liked the design too which was interesting given the modern gran prix boats he works with....

Interesting. She's not far away from 'the modern grand prix boats' category I'd have thought, Kimb? She looks to me like the next best thing to a stripped-down, uncompromising thoroughbred - albeit a day-racer. Certainly I don't see any concession to fit her into the 'cruiser' category by comparison?

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He very much liked the boat and was impressed with the job the School did on her. He liked the design too which was interesting given the modern gran prix boats he works with....

Interesting. She's not far away from 'the modern grand prix boats' category I'd have thought, Kimb? She looks to me like the next best thing to a stripped-down, uncompromising thoroughbred - albeit a day-racer. Certainly I don't see any concession to fit her into the 'cruiser' category by comparison?

Does this mean I can't race her in the cruising category?

 

Next you are going to tell me she needs lifelines......

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He very much liked the boat and was impressed with the job the School did on her. He liked the design too which was interesting given the modern gran prix boats he works with....

Interesting. She's not far away from 'the modern grand prix boats' category I'd have thought, Kimb? She looks to me like the next best thing to a stripped-down, uncompromising thoroughbred - albeit a day-racer. Certainly I don't see any concession to fit her into the 'cruiser' category by comparison?

Does this mean I can't race her in the cruising category?

 

Next you are going to tell me she needs lifelines......

KimB:

Ha, ha. Funny you should say that. I was thinking about lifelines, reading the thread some time back. Got the distinct impression they would not be welcomed by you or Bob.

 

Of course you can sail her in a cruising category. So long as you're happy with line honours, you'll do just fine. Bet the handicapper won't be charitable though!!! :)

 

Bob:

I should have know better than to suggest one of your boats could be 'categorised'. :)

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I'm surprised he covered his hammer with a cloth. Seems a bit like checking out how a bell rings with cloth over the ringer. You want to hear the sound! I'd think he would have to hit the boat harder with the cloth-covered hammer to get the same information from the sound.

 

Surveyors are funny with their hammers. Some really whack hard, others tap more often but more softly. The ones who really whack hulls used to freak me out, especially since I was generally there trying to sell the hull in question. I got used to it.

 

Now my feeling is, if your hull was hurt by a surveyor's hammer, that needed to happen to reveal the problem within.

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I'm surprised he covered his hammer with a cloth. Seems a bit like checking out how a bell rings with cloth over the ringer. You want to hear the sound! I'd think he would have to hit the boat harder with the cloth-covered hammer to get the same information from the sound.

 

Surveyors are funny with their hammers. Some really whack hard, others tap more often but more softly. The ones who really whack hulls used to freak me out, especially since I was generally there trying to sell the hull in question. I got used to it.

 

Now my feeling is, if your hull was hurt by a surveyor's hammer, that needed to happen to reveal the problem within.

I was there with him and he tapped rather gently. The sound from the sheathed hammer was very much like that of an unsheathed hammer. Nice solid thunk.

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I'm surprised he covered his hammer with a cloth. Seems a bit like checking out how a bell rings with cloth over the ringer. You want to hear the sound! I'd think he would have to hit the boat harder with the cloth-covered hammer to get the same information from the sound.

 

Surveyors are funny with their hammers. Some really whack hard, others tap more often but more softly. The ones who really whack hulls used to freak me out, especially since I was generally there trying to sell the hull in question. I got used to it.

 

Now my feeling is, if your hull was hurt by a surveyor's hammer, that needed to happen to reveal the problem within.

I was there with him and he tapped rather gently. The sound from the sheathed hammer was very much like that of an unsheathed hammer. Nice solid thunk.

The way this build is documented, I would not have guessed that he would want a tap test. In any case, it was done before final finishing so no foul.

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Not sure what he's tapping for on a strip planked hull. Dry rot? Before it's launched? If the outside sheething had delaminated I would think you could se that. I'm calling BS on the hammer test on this boat.

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I think the insurance company must have a private surveyor form. On it, the surveyor must have to sign off on his estate and first born over whether or not he;

 

"Used hammer in the 'thunk' test prior to determinining whether the hull finish would scratch. Please indicate whether paint withstood the test in the appropriate box."

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Not sure what he's tapping for on a strip planked hull. Dry rot? Before it's launched? If the outside sheething had delaminated I would think you could se that. I'm calling BS on the hammer test on this boat.

 

 

It does seem unnecessary in this case, but I think hammering is like shaking hands for a surveyor. It's automatic. It's how they say hello to a boat.

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I understand tapping on old wooden boats when you are looking for rot. I can see this working on a cored hull looking for delam. I can't see it on solid lam boats and I think it's just a ritual to make it look like they are doing a lot of work.

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Delivered the bulb fairing templates early this morning. Decided to avoid the loading and unloading of the commuter-boat and just drove the Sprinter onto the ferry. (I have not been on the ferry for sometime and I almost forgot to mention that I now qualify for the senior citizen discount.)

 

I picked up the drilling template from the top of the bulb as long as I had the Sprinter at CSR. (Now what the heck am I going to do with the 1/2" steel bulb drilling template? I also have the drilling template for the keel fin top flange in my garage, I think it was only 3/8" steel. At least CSR did not make me take back the plywood mold!)

 

The bulb is cleaning up nicely.

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Nice to see the bulb cleaned up.

Yeah, it came out just fine. And everyone is impressed with the workmanship on the fin. The keel worked out well.

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