kimbottles

Perry Sliver Class Day Sailor

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Wood IS carbon [based] fibre.

I thought about putting that argument forward Paul, thanks for doing it.

 

See Bob, I did follow your request.........kind of.........

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This boat isn't done yet? Jeez, bunch of slackers.

 

P.S. sorry for any previous posts and she sure does look great.

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Wood IS carbon [based] fibre.

So am I. And I'm not volunteering.

:)

 

Patience. The whale will come.

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kdh:

Yeah, I know But there is a certain frontier ,authenticity to it like this. Profundity and spelling acumen are seldom analagous.

 

( Fuck, listen to me. Mrs. Doane would be proud.)

Now ain't you all artikulate sounding. Don't get all uppity on us now Bub, erh Bob.

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Carbon fiber is like teak. Every boat should have some. You can always keep it, ready to show someone, in a drawer, down below.

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Did you happen read the article in the latest Professional Boatbuilder about carbon spars?

 

On the cover: Lightweight custom hardware and hand-painted faux wood grain at the head of the new 96′11″ (29.5m) carbon fiber mainmast built by GMT Composites (Bristol, Rhode Island) for the classic Alden-designed schooner Summerwind. Story on page 40.

http://www.proboat.com/table-of-contents-146?

 

Looks a lot like wood at a fraction of the weight (but a big bump in cost).

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I wish they had revealed the final cost of those spars. Must just be astronomic! Beau, have you budgeted such spars into your Dauntless project? Just kidding, I know you will take those real wood spars back down to varnish to keep an eye on them, but just think what lowering the CG 4' must do.

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I am not a fan of the faux wood look.

 

I agree, Kim. This one has a thin wood veneer on her carbon spars. That's ok to me.

 

IMG_0360.jpg

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Is anybody else bothered by how big an arc the GMT masthead light is being blocked by the s.s. pipe or antenna post?

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Sophie is indeed an exquisite boat. I saw her a couple times when I was in Newport and she is very impressive on many levels. As kdh says, she is a Bruce King design and 90 feet of elegance. Built in 1991, at Renaissance Yachts and finished at Derecktors yard in Connecticut. Cold-moulded with hydraulic vertical lifting ballast keel in a fibreglass case.

 

Full length photo taken by George Bekris. The fuzzy iPhone photo, I took, End hijack.

 

Kim, fantastic photos of Francis Lee.

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She's looking a little scrubby nowadays. Still a looker no doubt... Bruce King knew how to draw good looking boats! The problem is that she says at Newport shipyard, where there are always a dozen or more insane super yachts around, all gleaming, and almost all featuring hot stewardesses. Sophie is usually just sitting there lonely, varnish worn through in spots, clear coat awl grip peeling off the spinnaker pole. What they need to do is move her to a different spot where the contrast in maintenance isn't so stark.

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She's looking a little scrubby nowadays. Still a looker no doubt... Bruce King knew how to draw good looking boats! The problem is that she says at Newport shipyard, where there are always a dozen or more insane super yachts around, all gleaming, and almost all featuring hot stewardesses. Sophie is usually just sitting there lonely, varnish worn through in spots, clear coat awl grip peeling off the spinnaker pole. What they need to do is move her to a different spot where the contrast in maintenance isn't so stark.

 

I met Sophie, the daughter of the guy who built SOPHIE, the boat. I think he's now passed the boat on to her.

 

A lot of brightwork on that boat, and she's big enough to need full-time crew. I hope the daughter isn't burdened by the boat at this point.

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Isn't her name "Francis"?

 

She looks beautiful, no matter what you call her!

 

Her official name is "Francis Lee".

 

But I have always had nicknames for my boats.....

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Sophie is indeed an exquisite boat. I saw her a couple times when I was in Newport and she is very impressive on many levels. As kdh says, she is a Bruce King design and 90 feet of elegance. Built in 1991, at Renaissance Yachts and finished at Derecktors yard in Connecticut. Cold-moulded with hydraulic vertical lifting ballast keel in a fibreglass case.

 

Full length photo taken by George Bekris. The fuzzy iPhone photo, I took, End hijack.

 

Kim, fantastic photos of Francis Lee.

SWMBO and I saw her in Sweden once, rather impressive.

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Did you happen read the article in the latest Professional Boatbuilder about carbon spars?

 

On the cover: Lightweight custom hardware and hand-painted faux wood grain at the head of the new 96′11″ (29.5m) carbon fiber mainmast built by GMT Composites (Bristol, Rhode Island) for the classic Alden-designed schooner Summerwind. Story on page 40.

http://www.proboat.com/table-of-contents-146?

 

Looks a lot like wood at a fraction of the weight (but a big bump in cost).

 

Painting a spar a "varnished wood" colour is fine but that faux (false) wood graining reminds me of old Country Squire wagons - tacky. Why not just wrap that sticky drawer liner around it? It comes in "wood grain".

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I am not a fan of the faux wood look.

 

I agree, Kim. This one has a thin wood veneer on her carbon spars. That's ok to me.

 

IMG_0360.jpg

 

From memory Sophie's carbon mast was built by Omahundro, the woodgraining is paint done by Vince Bartolone.

 

She was another incredibly frustrating project. Started by Renaissance, who went broke, she was moved to Wayfarer in Camden and completed to launch (without her ballast keel or rig) by Doug Beebe and John England. Towed away to Derecktor in the middle of the night leaving some large unpaid bills. The lifting keel was one challenge, it pivots and has a crush box in the aft edge of the case. She's at least 25,000 pounds overweight, started as a small simple project, but they just kept cramming more stuff in.......We designed a special varnished mahogany lapstrake dinghy with a groove built into the planking to take a RIB collar, no idea if that's still aboard.

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She's at least 25,000 pounds overweight, started as a small simple project, but they just kept cramming more stuff in........

 

I am rather proud of the fact we have kept the Francis Lee underweight.

 

We had a strong concept of "simple" from the beginning and we stuck to it.

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She's at least 25,000 pounds overweight, started as a small simple project, but they just kept cramming more stuff in........

 

I am rather proud of the fact we have kept the Francis Lee underweight.

 

We had a strong concept of "simple" from the beginning and we stuck to it.

 

That takes some connection with the project....in Sophie's case there was none....I don't think Stenbeck ever visited the boat under construction, we just dealt with underlings.

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That's my problem!!

 

I don't have any underlings!

 

I got to go get me some underlings!

 

(Where does one go to find underlings?)

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That's my problem!!

 

I don't have any underlings!

 

I got to go get me some underlings!

 

(Where does one go to find underlings?)

 

Whaddya need, boss?

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(Where does one go to find underlings?)

 

That would be the folks from "down under" - plenty of us would be happy to do your bidding aboard the FL

 

ML

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Oh? Minions?

 

I need minions?

 

OK, make it minions, I need minions......

 

(Where the heck does one go to find minions? errr what exactly is a minion? those little yellow guys in the video?? those are minions??)

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(Where does one go to find underlings?)

 

That would be the folks from "down under" - plenty of us would be happy to do your bidding aboard the FL

 

ML

:D:D

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I can be a minion! I'll even wear the funny glasses. Do I get to come for a sail?

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I am not a fan of the faux wood look.

I agree, Kim. This one has a thin wood veneer on her carbon spars. That's ok to me.

 

IMG_0360.jpg

 

From memory Sophie's carbon mast was built by Omahundro, the woodgraining is paint done by Vince Bartolone.

 

She was another incredibly frustrating project. Started by Renaissance, who went broke, she was moved to Wayfarer in Camden and completed to launch (without her ballast keel or rig) by Doug Beebe and John England. Towed away to Derecktor in the middle of the night leaving some large unpaid bills. The lifting keel was one challenge, it pivots and has a crush box in the aft edge of the case. She's at least 25,000 pounds overweight, started as a small simple project, but they just kept cramming more stuff in.......We designed a special varnished mahogany lapstrake dinghy with a groove built into the planking to take a RIB collar, no idea if that's still aboard.

Same boat I think ?

 

 

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I can be a minion! I'll even wear the funny glasses. Do I get to come for a sail?

Sure, I like Canadians, my dear Grandpapa Sam was a Canadian.......

 

You too ML and you Rasp are welcome too.

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Seeing the images of Sliver sent me to my old books and magazines to find images of William Garden's Oceauns.

 

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Yup, Bob and I were inspired by her, but Bob's design is very much more refined and other than general concept very different.

 

Too bad she was broken up, I wonder where her sister Rampage is now?

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"Report on Oceanus" by William Garden, from the June 1957 issue of Yachting. Yeah, I need a better scanner.

 

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With a name like "Oceanus" on a pointy ended boat, one should really consider writing it in full on both sides of the hull, or it ends up all ass as shown above. Some intern at Yachting was snickering when they laid out the photos on that page.

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With a name like "Oceanus" on a pointy ended boat, one should really consider writing it in full on both sides of the hull, or it ends up all ass as shown above. Some intern at Yachting was snickering when they laid out the photos on that page.

 

The name would be on the other side. Anus would be the home port.

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The stern on OCEANUS went tangent in plan view at the sheer. So essentially there was a flat spot wrapping the stern right under the rail. The name as placed work perfectly. It wil be a cold day in hell before I correct one of Bill's aesthetic decisions. I find a lot of faults in the design of OCEANUS. Some are serious. I know the boat was born with a bad helm and "E" was cut down dramatically to help. Having raced on the boat I can say with certainty that OCEANUS raced boat for boat with a 48' 8 meter class sloop.

 

Kind of reminds me of an article I read, I think it was in GQ. It analyzed the face of Sophia Loren, i.e. nose is too big, eyes are too close together, moth is too wide etc. In the end it said something like, "But you put all this together and it is perfect" Thats sort of how OI feel about OCEANUS. In 53 years of staring really hard at boats I can tell you that no boat has had more impact on my work and depth of inspiration as OCEANUS.

 

I've told this story several times, but as a 15 year old kid prowling the docks at Shilshole with my sketch book in hand I came accross OCEANUS. It stopped me dead in my tracks WTF? There was simply no other boat I had ever seen that looked even remotely like OCEANUS. I remember that moment like is was yesterday.

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My shots were in color, the light was very flat and it still is a very simple boat inside. Kim has some ideas for trim and the sole that shoud keep the very clean look and add a lot more character. One thing about the current interor is you can see the quality in the construction. Even the soon to be covered areas are so perfect that it puts custom furniture to shame.

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Concur on the 'rightness' of many aspects of Oceanus. Love the scale, inside helm & crusing aspects - and the very different mission profiles.

 

One has to wonder what the wildly-different sailing qualities will be.

 

The dinghy-stowge on the aft 'bow' of Oceanus does beg the question - that: If you were making a cruising boat, could you design a dink to compliment the double-ender's stern so as to not look clunky* ?

 

*otherwise know as COTB or, the typical Crap On The Back configuation when cruising

(for readers who need caught up)

 

Side question, if you will, Bob - the flattened facet of Oceanus' otherwise "canoe" design - a product of a particular constraint or just a design 'feature' ?

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The stern on OCEANUS went tangent in plan view at the sheer. So essentially there was a flat spot wrapping the stern right under the rail. The name as placed work perfectly. It wil be a cold day in hell before I correct one of Bill's aesthetic decisions. I find a lot of faults in the design of OCEANUS. Some are serious. I know the boat was born with a bad helm and "E" was cut down dramatically to help. Having raced on the boat I can say with certainty that OCEANUS raced boat for boat with a 48' 8 meter class sloop.

 

Kind of reminds me of an article I read, I think it was in GQ. It analyzed the face of Sophia Loren, i.e. nose is too big, eyes are too close together, moth is too wide etc. In the end it said something like, "But you put all this together and it is perfect" Thats sort of how OI feel about OCEANUS. In 53 years of staring really hard at boats I can tell you that no boat has had more impact on my work and depth of inspiration as OCEANUS.

 

I've told this story several times, but as a 15 year old kid prowling the docks at Shilshole with my sketch book in hand I came accross OCEANUS. It stopped me dead in my tracks WTF? There was simply no other boat I had ever seen that looked even remotely like OCEANUS. I remember that moment like is was yesterday.

 

I agree, one of my all time favorite vessels. Wish I had known she was to be broken up, I might have been able to save her. (But then I might not have had the courage to do the Sliver project which will be a better all around vessel for me.)

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Shark:

What "constraints"? There are none in this design. It;s just Bill's imagination turned loose. In his own review of the boat he says the boat did not fit the CCA at all.

No, that stern shape was just Garden's eye at work. What strikes me in the stern is that the exquisite shape you saw in person is not really reflected in the lines drawing. I'll put it this way, I can't see it and I can read lines.

But in real lfe it was there making me wonder if Garden fine tuned the ribbands when he was the the set up stage of the build.. It would not have taken much adjustment.

Doesn't much matter anymore. You would have to give the lines to a new builder and see what he came up with to tell.

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We had two of those wicker and steel circular chairs next to the stove on Oceanus on the screen porch of my parent's house in Ohio. That is my connection to Oceanus.

 

I like Sliver better, and I like Oceanus a lot.

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Oceanus is was a magnificent vessel. I like the Francis Lee better myself, but that takes NOTHING away from Oceanus. Nothing at all!

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The following pages are from the March/April 1988 issue of WoodenBoat. William Garden was way ahead of his time in taking a big chunk out of the keel forward of the rudder to create what is almost a separate skeg. Does anyone know if Oceanus's younger sister was actually built?

 

smwpg1.jpg

 

smwpg2.jpg

 

smwpg3.jpg

 

smwpg4.jpg

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Ha! I was right. Ha!

 

Read at the very end of the Joel White review. It says, "The stern was logged up out of 6" stuffm glued and bolted together, then sculpted to the finished shape."

 

It's pretty obvious to my eye that Bill had more then the lofted plans to go on when he created the stern. In fact he "eyeballed" it.

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As a result of the mentioning of Oceanus I read the tread about Bill Garden when he deceased in April 2011.

In there was a valuable exchange of opinions between Bob and Tad Roberts about Bill.

 

Tad wrote to Bob among many other things: "Well as you know the real magic is in creating a "character" design that is just short of cartoonish, it's so easy to drop over that edge. Garden was a master at skirting the edge but never going over."

 

I think this is so true and gave real credit to the natural, almost nonchalance, organic flair of Bill Garden's designs.

 

There is also this kind of magic when I see pictures of Francis Lee. Apart from the here more or less general confusion to recognize the bow from the stern there is some nice puzzlement with me regarding the dimensions of the Sliver. Sometimes when there are no apparent things in the direct setting of the boat that immediately give away the real dimensions I can happily see a 30 or 40 foot boat, before I realize again thats 60 feet of very nice sliverishness.

 

 

Faux wood:

A short story about a prize application of faux wood when I was racing "Skûtsjes" some 30 years ago.

In that time a lot of skûtsjes were again restored and were rediscovered to be great fun to race.

As ever everything took more time and money then anticipated and it was decided to put the rig of another boat on the one we were supposed to race. Only the skûtsje we were racing was 16 m and the Tjalk we took the entire rig of was 23 m :blink: and had on the gooseneck a big hydraulic cylinder mounted with large steel sleeve on the 25 -30 cm diameter massive oregon boom to be able to put some workable pressure as outhaul on the loose footed main :rolleyes: which of course was a big no no in very conservative skûtsje-raceland. :(

On the day of the first race everything was ready -_-. We didn't have had a single day of practice and the end of the boom only stuck out some 4.5 m past the rudder (which was only allowed because it wasn't mentioned in the rules) but the big hydraulic cylinder with the steel sleeve was invisible…. apart from some rubber hoses coming out of the (faux) wood :D The faux wood was so realistically applied by the artist owner of the skûtsje that even some of the crew never noticed this faux feature.

We didn't even do that bad during the regattas and sometimes surprised everybody with the still legendary spurts of speed the boat reached at moments only to be beaten by the entirely new to crew handling of the boat at the buoys. Of course we made sure a small but efficient, innocent whistling, crowd gathered around the man working the biggish handle on the hydraulic pump when some outhaul to flatten the main was needed.

The racing was challenging at moments, not to say hairy with the 140m2 main and 80m2 jib if I remember the numbers well, but we sailed and learned a lot.

Another small detail with the motley crew was that of course everyone had a dog or dogs. On the more windy days we simply couldn't afford to leave someone to watch & tame the dogs as everybody was needed to tame the boat.

So the 15 or so very varied dogs, from Newfoundlanders, Pit-Bulls, Chow-Chow's and many more big and small undefined species were left on the anchored de-rigged talk to take care of themselves. When the racing was done we would look through binoculars if there were possibly any casualties. Never..they were always happy quietly lounging aboard which changed of course the moment we stepped back on board.

 

 

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Kim, Bob...Amazing, she looks wonderful and I am sure is going to me magical sailing. Owned and lived aboard a Herreshoff Rozinante and must say that it was one of the best sailing boats ever. Wish I still had her, saw her in PT a few years back pimped. I can't wait to see FRANK under sail.

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I dug around and found a little info on "Mata Hari" the centerboard version of "Oceanus" and "Rampant" (ex "Amorita") the stripped out version (if you can call 33,500 pounds stripped out!). (See next couple posts as these might be too big for one post.)

 

I would sure like to know where they are now, so if anyone knows please speak up!!

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Bob is the mast so far forward on OCEANUS becuase of the canoe stern?

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With the keel in the middle and the rig so far forward by modern standards, why did Oceanus have a lot of helm?

The boat I grew up on, Molly B- a near sister ship of Spirit, had the same issue. Looking at the drawings you'd never have guessed that she had a LOT of weather helm.

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Ha! I was right. Ha!

 

Read at the very end of the Joel White review. It says, "The stern was logged up out of 6" stuffm glued and bolted together, then sculpted to the finished shape."

 

It's pretty obvious to my eye that Bill had more then the lofted plans to go on when he created the stern. In fact he "eyeballed" it.

 

The deadrise workboats of the Chesapeake Bay used to be built with rounded sterns. At first, the sterns were shaped out of large blocks of solid wood. Rot tended to be a problem. The builders then switched to vertical staves, like a wooden bucket.

 

virginia_2.JPG

 

As engines became more powerful, the hulls became wider, and the builders switched to transom sterns.

 

stephanie_marie_1.JPG

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Here's another William Garden design from the April 1966 issue of Rudder. I guess the longer overhangs are due to the CCA.

 

racing_yawl_sm.jpg

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I had better be careful. I was never given the treat of getting to steer OCEANUS so I should not comment on helm balance. My comment on weather helm was made on one observation only. If you look at the ORIGINAL drawings of OCEANUS and not the ones presented here you will see that shortly after launch almost 4' was whacked off "E". Why would Garden do that? My guess is that it was done to reduce helm pressure. Imagine I'm correct. Why would OCEANUS have too much helm? It's a narrow hull so that's good. But look where the keel is. Its way forward on the hull. Why is it there? To get the ballast forward to balance the boat on its lines. Why? Beacuse the bizarre hull form is very anemic aft with very hollow waterlines and even dramatically hollow buttocks that start going hollow around station 7.5. (opposite of what desigers of fast boats do today) The result of all this hollow aft is that the LCB (;longitudinal center of buoyancy) is way forward. Garden does not tell us where it is. My guess would be 50% of DWL aft of cutwater where 53% or 544% would be more "normal". Garden never published those numbers and on many of his designs doesn't even list displ. So, with LCB way forward the keel has to be way forward and the rig has to be way forward. It's very easy to see this rig is very far forward relative to the hull. It would be my suspicion that the center of pressure on the apendages is too far forward and that with the rig placement created the helm. The rudder is very far forward and strongly raked. This cannot have helped. Note that on the yawl WHIRLWIND II, designed shortly after OCEANUS, the rudder strongly raked the other way. That's telling me something.

 

But look at the photo of Bill and his buddy standing behind the wheel,, boat heeled over nicely and probably doing 8 knots. Nobody is touching the wheel. That's no a boat with a bad helm issue.

 

And as for all that hollow going aft. Look at the photos of OCEANUS taken from the stern. The magic of that stern is that the hollows make it look like it is levitating. The long overhang aft just foats there giving that ultra delicate and beautiful look.

 

You can see the downside to the stern in the neam to shots of OCEANUS booming along. The quarter wave pops up quite far forward. It's far better for the stern to push the water down till the very last moment.

 

 

I remember as a 15 year old kid scrubbing OCEANUS down one day. Kind of like a kid student of sculpture being told to go polish Michaelangelo's DAVID. I gave OCEANUS a meticulous goings over. That's how I found where BIll hid the keys

to the boat. I was washing every nook and cranny. Bill's buddy, Ellis, I called him Mr. Devine, came aboard and looked the boat over and said to me, "It hasn't been this clean since it was a pup." I felt good hearing that.

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De Dood - that was Jeff Bridges' boat, right? ;-)

 

Yeah, I realize it's something like "the dead". Not so funny.

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Here's another William Garden design from the April 1966 issue of Rudder. I guess the longer overhangs are due to the CCA.

 

racing_yawl_sm.jpg

 

 

Whirlwind I has been up for sale for quite awhile.

 

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1956/William-Gardner-45-Yawl-2490642/Los-Angeles-County/CA/United-States

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Kim and Bob - FL is a real gem. Looking forward to the final splash test and your report on her first outing. Good luck!

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^^ The ad for Whirlwind started me dreaming, but even teak decks on old fiberglass boats scare me. I suspect the broker slipped a digit in the specifications (47' vs. 57'). Whirlwind would be a great project for somebody with good wood working skills or deep pockets.

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William Garden has a chapter on Oceanus in his book Yacht Designs < http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1888671238/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0HJYHXE17RB52B0RKE3S&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1630083502&pf_rd_i=507846 >. The book really highlights William Garden's drafting skill. There are hand-drawn isometric views of many of the boats. In one of the chapters, William Garden illustrates the labor-intensive process for constructing an isometric view with vanishing points.

 

 

oceanus_cartoon_sm.jpg

 

Several of the drawings include the cartoon duck-man in the corner. Does the duck-man have a name?

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Here's another William Garden design from the April 1966 issue of Rudder. I guess the longer overhangs are due to the CCA.

 

racing_yawl_sm.jpg

Lovely boat. Did anyone note that Bill garden included the dodger in the design? The other thisng that struck me was the foam core fiberglass deck, pretty advanced for 1966, no?

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I call that cartoon man "carrot nose" and I always figured it was Bill. Bill has several different cartoon men. I can draw them all. I used to practice drawing them. But unlike some other designers I never used them on my drawings. They were Bill's men and I didn't feel I had the right to use them. I wanted my own drafting style. But sometimes when I sign a book I'll draw my Bob Perry cartoon man.

 

I'm not sure WHIRLWIND II was ever built. I don't recall ever seeing a photo of it. If someone can find one I'd love to see it.

Considering how long we waited for a core foam that could stand the heat of a deck application I would think that WHIRLWIND II if ever built, has probably disintegrated by now. Airex was the first core foam that I am aware of and it was notoriously bad as a deck core.

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^^ Oops! I misunderstood. The William Garden (not Gardner!) boat in the ad < http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1956/William-Gardner-45-Yawl-2490642/Los-Angeles-County/CA/United-States > is Whirllwind (45'). The boat in the drawing above from the April 1966 issue of Rudder is Whirlwind II (57').

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^^ Oops! I misunderstood. The William Garden (not Gardner!) boat in the ad < http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1956/William-Gardner-45-Yawl-2490642/Los-Angeles-County/CA/United-States > is Whirllwind (45'). The boat in the drawing above from the April 1966 issue of Rudder is Whirlwind II (57').

 

you got it. Also note that Whirlwind I was built in 1956. I really like the looks of her; she'd make a really fun boat to restore for wooden boat regattas and the like. The resto costs and time involved are beyond what I can afford of either or I'd strongly consider it.

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I call that cartoon man "carrot nose" and I always figured it was Bill. Bill has several different cartoon men. I can draw them all. I used to practice drawing them. But unlike some other designers I never used them on my drawings. They were Bill's men and I didn't feel I had the right to use them. I wanted my own drafting style. But sometimes when I sign a book I'll draw my Bob Perry cartoon man.

 

Bill's cartoon characters would make for a great collection of wall art. Framed in teak, of course.

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I had never seen WHIRLWIND before. Very interesting.

 

I asked about her over in the center cockpit thread a few months ago. If memory serves, I think you remarked how similar she looked to a Lapworth 50, which she sure does! Nearly a dead ringer at first glance. There's not a lot of information around on Whirlwind. At first I was skeptical of the ad's claim that she was one of Bill's, but the dates, the name, and the fact that there is only one of her all seem legitimate. That rudder and keel configuration seem unique to the boat. I'm still saving up for Mrs. Skol's CT54, so no project boat for me!

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All very interesting but can we stick to the plan (Francis Lee) please?

 

See post #7853

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There often is a man lurking in the cockpit or carrying a bucket of paint in William Garden's drawings. The man has always had a pipe, a hat, and a pointy nose, but he lost a lot of weight at some point in time.

 

man1.jpg

 

man2.jpg

 

man3.jpg

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Vital Spark seems to be an early member of the Oceanus lineage with the rudder attached to the keel.

 

vital_spark_sm.jpg

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All very interesting but can we stick to the plan (Francis Lee) please?

 

See post #7853

There is a fundamental truth to this thread that you are missing. When fresh pics and progress data is lacking, drift sets in. Sometimes it's boat related. Sometimes it's not. In this case, you can argue that the drift is pretty minor becasue it takes us down the path of skinny double enders, one of which was an early influence on the FL concept and really does generate some good discussion of what makes a boat sail well, or not and how our collective understanding has been shaped by adhering to measurement rules or not.

 

If you want it back on track, pull up a picture and criticize the waterline stripe. That will sharpen the focus quickly. B)

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I figure any boat with a point on both ends belongs on this thread. I never tire of looking at Bill's work.

 

I had a cient, Dr. Sandy Bill. He had owned TATOOSH, a similar Garden canoe yawl to VITAL SPARK. He said it was not a good boat. In any breeze it just laid over and died. That said, it was an extremely cool looking boat. It has been posted here before. I love VITAL SPARK. Not sure about the rudder location though. Look how big the rudder is! When I look at a Garden boat like VITAL SPARK I just can't see a connection to any other boat other than another Garden boat. Bill was never afraid to explore the edges, He taught me not to be afraid of doing it a bit differently. You can sure see how OCEANUS grew out of these early canoe hull forms. Look at the head on VITAL SPARK. How the hell did that work?

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