chorus1

Dick Carter design boats

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That is an average of 7400 hrs per boat over the year.

I do not think you can do that anymore. Why?

Assuming you get the one offs boats to built !

Pretty interesting question Y_M.

 

I believe the boats then were simpler and faster to fit-out with lesser systems and accomodation styling than today.

 

As far as hull-manufacturing is concerned, it could be interesting to compare with the current aluminum hull builders in Netherlands.

Gouwerok subcontractor to Vitters and Feadship had 22 direct workers too when I looked at it 10 years ago, and they had a fantastic output. e.g: one 55m S.Y hull + one Feadship cabin trunk in one year.

Bloemsma subcontractor to Holland Jachtbouw and Feadship (again) has a smaller workforce, though they can built 1 x J.class hull + a 65' or a Feadship cabin trunk in one year.

 

Those Dutch guys are damn good and super-organised.

 

 

And as you cleverly discovered in a photo, Gebr. Maas subcontracted the construction of Caligu's hull (shell only) to Scheepswerf de Amer.

 

 

Yes !! Last week-end I found an article (which is still in the "to scan" file) in an other magazine introducing the then new "Izenah III", it shows the hull fresh from "De Amer" (they say) being prepped for painting at Maas Gebr. (build on a male mould probably)

 

De Amer was first and foremost a very large and successful patrol-boats builder and exporter, it had just been sold when I was in Holland in the mid 70's.

I have a vague memory (Dutch readers may know more) that its owner was highly respected for his actions as a R.A.F officer in the Japanese war.

 

The people were often as interesting and peculiar as the boats in those days.

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Frits Jan Willem den Ouden was born in The Hague on July 23, 1914 . He is the oldest surviving knight of the Order of William . (read Victoria Cross/Purple Heart)


During the Second World War he was a bomber pilot in the First Division of the First Airplane Group KNIL (Royal Dutch East Indies Army), squadrons consisting of 39 aircraft, and he was a Commander stationed at the airbase Andir in Bandung . At the beginning of his career Den Ouden was then first lieutenant, patrol commander. From a secret base somewhere on the island of Borneo he and three other aircraft made regular reconnaissance flights over the Strait of Makassar.


On February 12, 1942 Den Ouden was awarded the Williams Order, 4th class mainly because of his missions over the former Dutch East Indies. Here he engaged the enemy in his B10 bombers attacking the ships of Japan. His colleagues and himself carried out these assignments often under attack from Japanese fighters.


After the capitulation of the KNIL on March 6, 1942, he was redeployed to Adelaide, Australia from where he soon moved to the United States. In the United States, he was assigned to the Royal Netherlands Military Flying School in Jackson, Mississippi (RNMFS). After the abolition of RNMFS he returned to Australia to serve with the No. 18 (Netherlands East Indies) squadron, where he flew many missions on the North American B-25 Mitchell bomber. On 11 August 1949 he returned to the Netherlands.


The yard built approx 100 motor boats a year, mainly patrol boats, for a global market. The pleasure boat range was called the 'Amerglass' series.

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This is a great thread. Sorry if it has been asked before, but Catherine if you wouldn't mind would you ask your dad which designers influenced him the most and why?.

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This is a great thread. Sorry if it has been asked before, but Catherine if you wouldn't mind would you ask your dad which designers influenced him the most and why?.

 

Excellent question, barley malt! I passed it along to my Dad. A few of his sailing friends have encouraged him to write a book, which he is strongly considering, so presumably he'll have the opportunity to go into detail about what his influences were.

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This is a great thread. Sorry if it has been asked before, but Catherine if you wouldn't mind would you ask your dad which designers influenced him the most and why?.

 

Excellent question, barley malt! I passed it along to my Dad. A few of his sailing friends have encouraged him to write a book, which he is strongly considering, so presumably he'll have the opportunity to go into detail about what his influences were.

Would be very pleased to translate it into French, if necessarry :)

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1970 Coriolan article (cont'd). Pages 4-6 of 6:

Coriolan, even when retired with new owner raced the winter series during long years, at la Trinité sur mer, he had a race friend nammed Camafra. Then she retired in Vannes harbour and Morbihan gulf for cruising.

He had a complete refit in Vannes Shipyard 15 years ago.

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1970 Coriolan article (cont'd). Pages 4-6 of 6:

Coriolan, even when retired with new owner raced the winter series during long years, at la Trinité sur mer, he had a race friend nammed Camafra. Then she retired in Vannes harbour and Morbihan gulf for cruising.

He had a complete refit in Vannes Shipyard 15 years ago.

 

 

To my knowledge, "Coriolan" was very lucky when finding her second owner, not only was he a very successful industrialist but he was most of all a top European Star class sailor and former olympian for France.

 

What better fate to dream of for a beautiful boat !

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After Red Rooster won the 1969 Fastnet, my Dad sailed her to La Trinité-sur-mer in Brittany. My whole family met up with him and we took a relaxing cruise in the stunningly beautiful Golfe du Morbihan. My mother wrote up the trip for Yachting Magazine, which included these photos of RR below.

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Does anyone know about Carter "Pivoting keel" advice ? +/- ?

Chris Bouzaid's one tonner "Wai Aniwa" 1972 winner in Sydney.

 

I think the keel was locked fore and aft after an incident returning from Kawau one day, the boat did a hand brake stop.

I just read an article on OTC in 1984... D.Peterson designed a 35feet "Constance of Lymington" with the same pivoting keel, the rating cost was 0.23 foot :(

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After Red Rooster won the 1969 Fastnet, my Dad sailed her to La Trinité-sur-mer in Brittany. My whole family met up with him and we took a relaxing cruise in the stunningly beautiful Golfe du Morbihan. My mother wrote up the trip for Yachting Magazine, which included these photos of RR below.

The last photo looks like "Le palais" Belle ile ' harbour :)

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After Red Rooster won the 1969 Fastnet, my Dad sailed her to La Trinité-sur-mer in Brittany. My whole family met up with him and we took a relaxing cruise in the stunningly beautiful Golfe du Morbihan. My mother wrote up the trip for Yachting Magazine, which included these photos of RR below.

The last photo looks like "Le palais" Belle ile ' harbour :)

No, it's the island Houat, near Belle Ile

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After Red Rooster won the 1969 Fastnet, my Dad sailed her to La Trinité-sur-mer in Brittany. My whole family met up with him and we took a relaxing cruise in the stunningly beautiful Golfe du Morbihan. My mother wrote up the trip for Yachting Magazine, which included these photos of RR below.

The last photo looks like "Le palais" Belle ile ' harbour :)

No, it's the island Houat, near Belle Ile

Ok St Gildas Houat harbour so :)

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Hello Forum.

This being my first post here I believe introductions are in order. I have been involved in sailing/racing since i was a young lad, growing up in Cairo Egypt I first started racing on the river Nile. We raced many Olympic classes, Flying Dutchman, Finns, Lasers, 470 etc as well as the lovely Nile class of which I may tell you more later. But what I would like to share with you now is my Carter 39. I first came across her
in Alimos Marina just out of Athens Greece in the winter of 1984, she had been launched in 82 and did not look like a very happy boat but it was love at first sight. I made an offer on the spot and though nearly penniless, through some miracle I was able to scrape the money and bought her within three months. I have owned and sailed her ever since.

In 30 years you get to know a boat, it was hard work at first since I could not get any information about her anywhere, Olympic yards had closed by then an everybody had scattered. The previous owner did not even have a sail plan to give me. Remember the was no internet then !

Today where ever we go, people turn up at our gangplank to admire her.
Here are a couple of shots of her off Rodos island Greece taken around 2000.

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Tx carter, just tell you us a little more about your boat please :) more pics also would be kind....

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More about Alif?

 

She was built in Greece to the original Olympic yards moulds, and though I have come across a couple of other Carter 39's Alif seems to have had the best interior finish from the start. I did one major modification at the very start, she had two forward cabins that i turned into one big cabin with en suite head and masses of storage space. Over the years many small modifications were made to the interior, so now we have three double cabins and a massive saloon with a copious galley. All in all she is a very comfortable cruiser. My wife and I have spent five to six months every year on her ever since we bought her.

 

I made a few modifications to the rig, I moved the mast 4 inches forward at the base as I could never tune her properly ( I believe the chainplates were installed a tad forward by the yard so I never got proper tension on the forestay) I added running back stays when I noticed the mast pumped quite a bit as soon as the waves went anywhere above 3 feet ( we get very steep short waves in the eastern Med) An inner forestay was added on which I hank a storm jib in foul weather.

 

Unfortunately Alif has not had a racing career as should should have, but I have raced her in many small local events and our worst ever ever result was second place! she is a very hard boat to beat. I have not come many boats who can point like she can but on the other hand she is not a down wind boat, If there is any sea she will try to broach on steep downhills.

 

here are a few more recent pics ( 2013/2014)

 

 

 

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Carter39,

 

I liked reading your post about Alif! Although my father doesn't post in this forum, he does read it from time to time and I know he will enjoy your story about Alif as well as your beautiful photos of her!

 

In 1973, my family spent about 10 days sailing on a white Carter33 in your area - Mamaris, Bozburun, the Datça Peninsula, Bodrum as well as Symi, Kos and Rhodes in Greece. It was magical. One early evening we sailed into Knidos (near the tip of the Datça peninsula) and anchored in the harbor. When we got up in the morning we were surprised to see that the only other boat anchored in the harbor was another white Carter33!

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I found this photo of Red Rooster, taken in 1969, in my father's photo files but don't know where it was taken. Is it somewhere in the Morbihan?

May be Ethel river ?

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Just looks just so sweet...One of those boats when you say the name.

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I found this photo of Red Rooster, taken in 1969, in my father's photo files but don't know where it was taken. Is it somewhere in the Morbihan?

BTW where is it now? Still sailing I hope

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I found this photo of Red Rooster, taken in 1969, in my father's photo files but don't know where it was taken. Is it somewhere in the Morbihan?

BTW where is it now? Still sailing I hope

 

That's the big question, DickDastardly. I can't find anything about her whereabouts. My father said that last he heard Red Rooster was in California.

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I had a sailing buddy in Cowes that year whose young daughter absolutely loved the boat. She couldn't pronounce her "r"s, so would jump up and down shouting: "Wed Wooster! There's Wed Wooster!..." Cracked us all up. Such good times.

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Carter39,

 

I liked reading your post about Alif! Although my father doesn't post in this forum, he does read it from time to time and I know he will enjoy your story about Alif as well as your beautiful photos of her!

 

In 1973, my family spent about 10 days sailing on a white Carter33 in your area - Mamaris, Bozburun, the Datça Peninsula, Bodrum as well as Symi, Kos and Rhodes in Greece. It was magical. One early evening we sailed into Knidos (near the tip of the Datça peninsula) and anchored in the harbor. When we got up in the morning we were surprised to see that the only other boat anchored in the harbor was another white Carter33!

 

Hi Cathrine,

 

Im glad to hear your father does occasionally read the posts, he is, after all, the man who designed Alif and she has given me joy for the best part of my life. Please convey my gratitude to him.

I have sailed the 33 of course and again what an exciting boat she is, they were very popular in Greece in the old days but I don't come across them so often anymore in Turkey , there is one in my marina but I have only seen her in the water once, seems to have spent the last few years on the hard.

 

here is another one of Alif

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Red Rooster during the '69 Admiral's Cup.

 

In the black/white photo, she's leading the Swedish boat, Runn.

 

The 3rd photo is a screen grab from a film about the 1969 AC showing (left to right) my father, Sandy Weld and Jim Andersen.

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More screen shots from the 1969 Admiral's cup: the Brittania Cup. Coriolan (black boat in 2 photos below) won but was later disqualified for, according to the film "a minor breaching of rules". Red Rooster was 3rd.

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And MORE screen shots of the 1969 Admiral's Cup...the Fastnet Race!

 

Photos: Red Rooster, Skip Allen and Sandy Weld on Red Rooster, Sandy taking his turn cranking up Red Rooster's retractable keel, Dick Carter at the helm with crew, Dick Carter skippering Red Rooster, Syd Fisher skippering Ragamuffin, Arthur Slater skippering Prospect of Whitby (the top English boat).

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And MORE screen shots of the 1969 Admiral's Cup...the Fastnet Race!

 

Photos: Red Rooster, Skip Allen and Sandy Weld on Red Rooster, Sandy taking his turn cranking up Red Rooster's retractable keel, Dick Carter at the helm with crew, Dick Carter skippering Red Rooster, Syd Fisher skippering Ragamuffin, Arthur Slater skippering Prospect of Whitby (the top English boat).

Great pics ! Tx Catherine.

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Thank you Catherine,

 

The NYYC pic of Coriolan and Red Rooster looks particularly interesting to me.

 

RR is sailing further down,

Coriolan luffing to stay between the mark and a fast coming RR (which would give a hint on RR downwind speed)?

Different approaches to downwind tactics (swing keel) ?

 

M.be Sleddog could tell us more ?

In any case RR clearly started the trend leading to Improbable and later to downwind flyers.

 

Also interesting is the staysail set outside the spin-sheet ! Blooper pointing its nose out one year ahead of Wai Aniwa ?

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screen grab from a film about the 1969 AC

 

Catherine,

 

What film? Any chance you can share ?

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screen grab from a film about the 1969 AC

 

Catherine,

 

What film? Any chance you can share ?

 

Hi Laser1,

 

I'd love to be able to post it but I believe I need to secure permission somehow from the Aussie film crew who made it. The Australians gave a reel of the film to my father as a gift after the 1969 Admiral's Cup.

 

Incidentally, Dad said he has never forgotten the gracious, good sportsmanship of the Australians after he won the 1969 Fastnet, which ruined the Aussies' lead in Cup points and enabled the US to win the Admiral's Cup.

 

I'm send you a PM about more of the film details….

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screen grab from a film about the 1969 AC

 

Catherine,

 

What film? Any chance you can share ?

 

Hi Laser1,

 

I'd love to be able to post it but I believe I need to secure permission somehow from the Aussie film crew who made it. The Australians gave a reel of the film to my father as a gift after the 1969 Admiral's Cup.

 

Incidentally, Dad said he has never forgotten the gracious, good sportsmanship of the Australians after he won the 1969 Fastnet, which ruined the Aussies' lead in Cup points and enabled the US to win the Admiral's Cup.

 

I'm send you a PM about more of the film details….

Secure permission ????

 

Catherine, when you got a gift you can use of it no ? UK people are law cautioned :)

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More screen shots from the 1969 Admiral's cup: the Brittania Cup. Coriolan (black boat in 2 photos below) won but was later disqualified for, according to the film "a minor breaching of rules". Red Rooster was 3rd.

The '69 Adm cup French report posted above by Catherine and written from "Coriolan" tells us a little more.

In the upwind leg they missed a buoy to be left on one side (Channel buoy I guess).

The reason to it is to be seen in the sails down photograph. One crew Philippe Lavat has the head covered with bandages (pic2).

Severely hit by the back-winding handle of a breaking mast-winch, he was being mended by the crew and Navigator missed the instructions small line.

 

For those who like anecdotes, Coriolan's crew was built from the '67 Pen-Duick III crew. They claim to be ill-fated with the Brittania Cup.

Two years before, having won the Channel Race and soon to win the Fastnet overall, Tabarly was so over the moon with the speed of his boat and a good Brittania Cup that he just forgot to post his finishing declaration with the race committee and was disqualified !!

 

And ... the article says.... the wounded crew got married a few days later with the same look.

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More screen shots from the 1969 Admiral's cup: the Brittania Cup. Coriolan (black boat in 2 photos below) won but was later disqualified for, according to the film "a minor breaching of rules". Red Rooster was 3rd.

The '69 Adm cup French report posted above by Catherine and written from "Coriolan" tells us a little more.

In the upwind leg they missed a buoy to be left on one side (Channel buoy I guess).

The reason to it is to be seen in the sails down photograph. One crew Philippe Lavat has the head covered with bandages (pic2).

Severely hit by the back-winding handle of a breaking mast-winch, he was being mended by the crew and Navigator missed the instructions small line.

 

For those who like anecdotes, Coriolan's crew was built from the '67 Pen-Duick III crew. They claim to be ill-fated with the Brittania Cup.

Two years before, having won the Channel Race and soon to win the Fastnet overall, Tabarly was so over the moon with the speed of his boat and a good Brittania Cup that he just forgot to post his finishing declaration with the race committee and was disqualified !!

 

And ... the article says.... the wounded crew got married a few days later with the same look.

 

Interesting story about a possible curse on the French crew during the '67 and '69 Brittania Cup! The black and white shot of Coriolan (attached) was taken during the 1969 AC (photographer unknown). I'm not sure where/when the color shot of her (also attached) was taken.

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Fun to see RED ROOSTER and crew in action. Thanks, Catherine, from that skinny kid tailing the halyard winch in post 938.

 

Mr. Frog: I don't know why CORIOLAN was not sailing downwind in that photo. Pretty sure RR had the keel up at that point, as we always did soon after the spinnaker went up. Not sure who came up with the idea of the baby "blooper." Both Commodore Tompkins and Taylor Grant had fertile minds up front.

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More screen shots from the 1969 Admiral's cup: the Brittania Cup. Coriolan (black boat in 2 photos below) won but was later disqualified for, according to the film "a minor breaching of rules". Red Rooster was 3rd.

The '69 Adm cup French report posted above by Catherine and written from "Coriolan" tells us a little more.

In the upwind leg they missed a buoy to be left on one side (Channel buoy I guess).

The reason to it is to be seen in the sails down photograph. One crew Philippe Lavat has the head covered with bandages (pic2).

Severely hit by the back-winding handle of a breaking mast-winch, he was being mended by the crew and Navigator missed the instructions small line.

 

For those who like anecdotes, Coriolan's crew was built from the '67 Pen-Duick III crew. They claim to be ill-fated with the Brittania Cup.

Two years before, having won the Channel Race and soon to win the Fastnet overall, Tabarly was so over the moon with the speed of his boat and a good Brittania Cup that he just forgot to post his finishing declaration with the race committee and was disqualified !!

 

And ... the article says.... the wounded crew got married a few days later with the same look.

 

Interesting story about a possible curse on the French crew during the '67 and '69 Brittania Cup! The black and white shot of Coriolan (attached) was taken during the 1969 AC (photographer unknown). I'm not sure where/when the color shot of her (also attached) was taken.

Yep for the b&Ww one, we can see Ph. Lavat with his bandage .... center of the boat, after a "winch trouble"

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[attachment=204771:cartertanton.jpg

I had the pleasure to see Dick Carter last Saturday. We spent about 4 hours over the good old times. Both, we have perspective over what was going on both sides of the pound. It was fun to go over the controversies over the races we shared. Dick really started the I.O.R rule; the fusion of both CCA and RORC in one International Rule. I had convinced him to write a book before our meeting, and he is challenged to the point of having to do it.

TX for the news YM :)))

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Fun to see RED ROOSTER and crew in action. Thanks, Catherine, from that skinny kid tailing the halyard winch in post 938.

 

Mr. Frog: I don't know why CORIOLAN was not sailing downwind in that photo. Pretty sure RR had the keel up at that point, as we always did soon after the spinnaker went up. Not sure who came up with the idea of the baby "blooper." Both Commodore Tompkins and Taylor Grant had fertile minds up front.

 

Hi sleddog!

 

I was just chatting with my Dad recently and mentioned your ongoing participation in this thread. He said that even though the Red Rooster Admiral's Cup crew was loaded with talent, he passed the helm to you a couple times as "a deliberate gesture" of respect for you as a championship winning, star sailor in your own right. He also said that he unearthed some correspondence that transpired between you two in the months before the Admiral's Cup. He was happy to get you on the crew for his bold new red boat.

 

I also read the heartbreaking story of the boat you built decades ago. It made me cry! It's good to hear that her spirit is alive and well in a new boat!

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Yves-Marie:

Would you please email me a high res copy of that photo of you and Dick. I'd love to have one for my archives.

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JohnCollins - My father said he was very pleased to track you down after so many years. Some of the folks who were involved with and very knowledgeable about the IOR rule - Olin, John Edwards (Commodore of the RORC and a great friend to my father) are no longer with us. But then he made contact with you!

 

Yves-Marie - I'm glad you and my Dad were finally able to meet up! I know he'd been looking forward to it ever since the two of you ran into each other at the Ted Hood Memorial last September.

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More 1969 AC photos:

 

The first two are of Skip Allan at the helm of Red Rooster. I think Taylor Grant is on the main and the guy in jeans is John Carter.

 

The crew looking too cool for school is the French AC crew on Coriolan.

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Looking back on these photos, it's easy to see why we all fondly remember boats like Red Rooster of that era. They were simple and easy to sail. No tweakers, runners, inhauls etc.

 

Seeing that pic of Skip on Red Rooster reminds me of when he offered to take me sailing on Improbable, just a joy with a huge tiller.

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In my world, nothing is quite so much fun as exploring small, off the grid, backwater boatyards. Deer Harbor Boat Works, Orcas Island, WA is one such place. Hidden treasures abound. But you can only get there by boat at high tide.

 

June, 2012. I was visiting Deer Harbor Boat Works for a wooden boat regatta skippers' meeting. After the meeting, I started exploring out back. Found all sorts of boats and gear in various states of repair. Behind a lovely 6 meter from the 1930's, near where the blackberry vines and forest were advancing, sat a forlorn hull. Something about its shape rang a bell.

 

I crawled out and asked Michael, owner of Deer Harbor Boat Works, what the mystery boat was. "RABBIT, Dick Carter design," Michael replied.

 

My head spun. I crawled back under, and sat near the leading edge of RABBIT's keel. The same keel, the same hull (steel, by Franz Maas of Breskens) that had won the famed Fastnet Race in 1965, and birthed TINA.

 

The good news/bad news is a steel hull can last for a long time with no maintenance. I suspect RABBIT has found her final resting place. Kinda sad.

 

RABBIT rests on historic soil. When the first Europeans arrived on Orcas Island, they found a Lummi Indian encampment along the slough which connects the shallow inner basin with the main harbor, exactly where Deer Island Boat Works is located. Their split cedar long houses measured 100’ by 20’. Each housed three generations of a tribal clan.

Lummi spent their time fishing, hunting and gathering plants. Rows of dugout cedar canoes, some 50 feet in length, were drawn up on the Deer Harbor shore, in front of the long houses.

Cedar Canoes and RABBIT. Hallowed ground indeed.

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WHOW! Sleddog

 

The next question is "has Rabbit found her final resting place ?" as fitting as the place may be.

Actually the typical "classic yacht" buyer/restorer, at least in France and Italy, values any yacht by the elegance of her lines, her racing successes in the old days and her first owner.

 

e.g: in 1997 "Helisara", the Tina, was found in dilapidated state in a mud-berth.

Despite other Tinas being available in a better condition, one owner ordered a 1,000 hours restoration job -at french rates !! - (read $ 40,000 + supplies), because of her past successes in the Giraglia and mostly because she had been owned by Von Karajan.

 

All this makes "Rabbit" a strong candidate for a restoration IMHO.

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If that RABBIT had a blue hull then I suspect you were looking at Bob Connor's old Carter 39 RABBITT. Bob took it to Deer Harbor in the 70's and pretty much just let it go. A sad end to a great boat.

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If that RABBIT had a blue hull then I suspect you were looking at Bob Connor's old Carter 39 RABBITT. Bob took it to Deer Harbor in the 70's and pretty much just let it go. A sad end to a great boat.

 

sleddog,

 

What a beautiful, magical story! Deer Harbor Boat Works does indeed sound like a mystical place, imbued with the spirit of the Lummi Indians and accessible only by boat at high tide. I fear that Bob is right - and that you discovered the Rabbit 39 that my father raced in the SORC in '74, which won her class (D). The 1965 Rabbit was eventually sold to Ludovico Fecia di Cossato (who also commissioned Caligu IV from my Dad). Rabbit is currently in Genoa, at the Yacht Cub Italiano. My father is planning to visit her this Spring! Here are some recent photos of Rabbit (these may have already been posted on the thread):

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Earlier in this thread, Moody Frog indicated that he had located Tina in Killybegs, Ireland, on the south coast of the Donegal peninsula. Her current owner, an Irish entrepreneur, told me that he saw her in the States and that "it was love at first sight" for him. Tina's then owner had been living on her at a marina in Florida but was getting married and had to sell her to buy a house. Tina's current owner bought her at auction and then paid $20,000. to have her shipped to Ireland (Tina wasn't seaworthy), where he is currently having her restored. Tina is his first 'big boat'. He told me that friends that he's taken sailing with him on Tina have told him to never sell her, and that if he does, to sell her to them! So Tina is alive and well and enjoying a peaceful life on the Emerald Isle.

 

Tina has her own page on Facebook:

 

https://www.facebook.com/tina.maguire.754?fref=ts

 

photos of her restoration:

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.1856411422779.102216.1615654756&l=bb51f89d2b

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Just found this great thread!

Some nice reading time ahead.

 

So I am the current owner of Carter 37 #1, Miles, previously named Hylas and Samantha.

If I can found out how to upload pictures, I'll do so over the weekend.

 

Guido

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Catherine,

I have just read your post that your father will be visiting Genoa this spring, which is way ahead from when I may visit the region..

I am not sure whether he will be visiting the Tuscany area, but the last clues i had to Ydra's whereabouts were either:

1) Porto Stefano, or

2) CNVA Marina, Clal Calera

both of these marinas are on the Tuscany coast.

 

wish him fair sailing, - Michael

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Miles Carter 37 - welcome! looking forward to seeing your photos...

 

fivestar - Thanks for the precise marina info! I'll pass that along to my Dad.

 

Here's a 1968 review of the GRP Tina with a test sail on the brand new Cavalier Seul Tina.

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Earlier in this thread, Moody Frog indicated that he had located Tina in Killybegs, Ireland, on the south coast of the Donegal peninsula. Her current owner, an Irish entrepreneur, told me that he saw her in the States and that "it was love at first sight" for him. Tina's then owner had been living on her at a marina in Florida but was getting married and had to sell her to buy a house. Tina's current owner bought her at auction and then paid $20,000. to have her shipped to Ireland (Tina wasn't seaworthy), where he is currently having her restored. Tina is his first 'big boat'. He told me that friends that he's taken sailing with him on Tina have told him to never sell her, and that if he does, to sell her to them! So Tina is alive and well and enjoying a peaceful life on the Emerald Isle.

 

Tina has her own page on Facebook:

 

https://www.facebook.com/tina.maguire.754?fref=ts

 

photos of her restoration:

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/fbx/?set=a.1856411422779.102216.1615654756&l=bb51f89d2b

With also new wheel system, seems that the rudder is not the original one no ?

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Catherine's recollection of coloring a paper code flag "Z" with her crayons for RABBIT II's backstay in a 1967 Cowes Week inshore race (post 499) deserves a bit of background.


The Brits had centuries to develop maritime flag etiquette. Racing in the Solent was akin to a steeplechase. Making sure you were "wearing" the proper flags at the proper time was all part of racing. Just leaving the Trots and entering the starting area would require a crew member standing by, ready to smartly "dip" the national ensign in salute to Royalty aboard the Royal Yacht BRITANNIA, whose magnificent 400 foot deep blue hull was usually anchored on or near the start line in front of the Royal Yacht Squadron.


For Colonists, this attention to flag protocol often seemed unfathomable. There really was (maybe still is) a Cowes Week race requirement that all yachts have a flag halyard. And fly a "race flag" above the masthead immediately before and during the race. I can't remember the exact dimensions of the required race flag. They were small, rectangular, and flown from a "pigstick" extension, carefully hoisted aloft.


Neither can I recall Dick's boats ever having a flag halyard. This absence got RABBIT in Dutch during the '65 Fastnet Race, which she ended up winning. The big Class I QUIVER IV, captain of the English Admiral's Cup Team that year, lodged a protest against RABBIT for not having a proper flag halyard. As Catherine recalls, "When QUIVER finished the '65 Fastnet, they believed they'd won and were actually in the middle of rowdy, boozy victory party when a race official arrived to tell them, 'so sorry chaps, protest disallowed, you didn't win after all.' "


"The champagne, as they say, went flat."

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Combined Yves-Marie's 2 lists:

Richard E. Carter and Carter Offshore designed boats by design numbers. The first reference to the transition From RORC to IOR came with #11.

 

#1 Rabbit

#2 Tina

#3 Optimist

#4 Rabbit II

#5 Palynodie

#6 Mersea Oyster

#7 Noryema

#8 Coriolan

#9 Red Rooster

#10 There is no reference to a Design #10 that I know of.

#11 First reference to I.O.R with Galigula and Izenah. 43'-7"x 31'-6"x12'-1/2'.

#12 There is no reference to a #12 that I know of.

#13 Carter 40' w/ pivoting keel.

#13B Production version of the Carter 40.L.O.A. brought to 39'-4".

#14. Vendredi 14. single handed schooner of 128' in length.

#15. Gitana V. 60' for Baron Edmond de Rothschild. Built by A&R Germany

#16 Carter 33. With pivoting keel.

#16B Production version of the 33, built in Sweden then Greece.

#17 Kohinoor.

#18 Preliminary for Bill Koch. 60'x50'x14'-6". With a R.R type of keel. Not built.

#19 Benbow. 65'-2 1/2"x 49'x 16'x8'-10". For Dottore Recchi.

#43 Carter 43 for raoul Gardini.

#20B Carter 43. Production boat.

#21 Canada's Cup Two Tonner Aggressive followed by: Tiderace and Airmail.

#22 Ydra. One Tonner built by A& R (first IOR boat)

#22B Carter 37. Production version built in Greece.

#23 Admiral's Cup 1973 for Raoul Gardini. Naif.

#24 " " " " for winning Germany's Team. (sistership). Carina.

#25 Carter 39.

#26 Admiral's Cup 73. Frigate. England.

#27 " " " . Mabelle. Italy ( I was the skipper).

#28 Preliminary 133'-10"x 120'-5"x19'-8"

#29 One Tonner. For Italy. Forgot her name.

#30 Carter 30. Built in Poland. Probably the most successful production boat for Carter Offshore.

#31 I have no recollection about that one.

#32 Texas One Tonner. 36' production boat.

#33 I have no recollection of this one.

 

This is where my own contribution stops.

 

 

# 29 , could that be this boat recently featured in Farevela ?

http://www.farevela.net/2014/03/04/la-mia-madifra-2-one-tonner-del-1974/

Ydra derivative built by Gallinari in 1974.

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Yes I think so. She is a derivative of Ydra but on steroids due to her much lighter construction method. Another one similar was designed for an Australian living in Perth. Forgot her name. Also out of wood, I recall the challenge was to install a hydraulic drive within the keel. Much easier on the original Ydra with her aluminum construction.

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Yes I think so. She is a derivative of Ydra but on steroids due to her much lighter construction method. Another one similar was designed for an Australian living in Perth. Forgot her name. Also out of wood, I recall the challenge was to install a hydraulic drive within the keel. Much easier on the original Ydra with her aluminum construction.

Thank you Y.M, actually I since found an other candidate to that number:

"El Raguseo", similar cold moulded construction in 1975 and which, outside the press "radars" range, twice won "La Barcolana" overall !!

http://dailyboats.com/boat/8117-apollonio-petronio-sloop-for-sale

 

But that might be after your time?

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Yes I think so. She is a derivative of Ydra but on steroids due to her much lighter construction method. Another one similar was designed for an Australian living in Perth. Forgot her name. Also out of wood, I recall the challenge was to install a hydraulic drive within the keel. Much easier on the original Ydra with her aluminum construction.

Amazing that all these other Carter yachts turn up, but still no sightings of the elusive Ydra or Hydra as the Italians call her.

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Ydra or Hydra ? My understanding is that Mrs Spacarelli, the owner was from the Island in Greece. Not certain.

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Ydra or Hydra ? My understanding is that Mrs Spacarelli, the owner was from the Island in Greece. Not certain.

Mrs Spacarelli has I believe now passed away. I last heard Ydra was at either Porto Stefano or CNVA Marina Cala Calera in Tuscany.

Its on my next European trip bucket list.

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Ydra or Hydra ? My understanding is that Mrs Spacarelli, the owner was from the Island in Greece. Not certain.

Madam Spaccareli is from the family of the founder of "BULGARI" jewelry. More about her and Ydra : http://www.medagliedoro.org/atleta/marina-bulgari-spaccarelli

According to the spelling of YDRA, in fact the official name for the order and administration was HYDRA but they put only YDRA on the boat (One letter less weight lol)

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Ydra or Hydra ? My understanding is that Mrs Spacarelli, the owner was from the Island in Greece. Not certain.

Yes the Bulgari family was of Greek and Corfu origin.

Spelling of Marina B's yachts comes from Greek language: Kerkyra=Corfu , Ydra (Hydra island Aegean sea) - starts with a Y in Greek - Kea (Cyclades)

 

Just for you to remember the 60's and 70's Italian racing world, here is an Italian view of Marina Spaccarelli

11-02_MarinaSpaccarelli_2011-1-GEN-FEB-MarinadiSelivoli.pdf

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Ydra or Hydra ? My understanding is that Mrs Spacarelli, the owner was from the Island in Greece. Not certain.

 

There is no "spelling" in Greek; it is all phonetic -- even proper names.

That name could also be spelled Hdra. The Greek letter eta "H" is pronounced like the English long E as in "tree". Upsilon "Y" is pronounced the same.

 

Of course, the owner of the boat -- or name -- would have the final say.

 

This causes no small amount of confusion for a tourist trying to follow road signs somewhere...

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A few weeks ago, the owner of a beautifully restored Optimist sister ship asked me about the rumor (incorrectly stated as fact in the Abeking & Rasmussen book) that one of my sisters or I had messed up my father's planimeter while he was designing Optimist, resulting in "incorrect lines" which then had to be "corrected" in-house by A&R. Hans Beilken told the Optimist owner this was untrue and when I asked my father about it last weekend, he also confirmed that it was untrue.

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A few weeks ago, the owner of a beautifully restored Optimist sister ship asked me about the rumor (incorrectly stated as fact in the Abeking & Rasmussen book) that one of my sisters or I had messed up my father's planimeter while he was designing Optimist, resulting in "incorrect lines" which then had to be "corrected" in-house by A&R. Hans Beilken told the Optimist owner this was untrue and when I asked my father about it last weekend, he also confirmed that it was untrue.

A yard like A&R will always redraw the lines and often a lot more. It was part of the "working drawings". I have lines from A&R where every frames at 12" spacing are drawn to facilitate the work on the loft floor. Of course now, there no lofting, no floor and no knowledge how it was done.

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Dick drew lines to small scale. I think .5" to the foot. There is no way you can take offsets off lines like this without some major adjustments either in a new set of larger scale lines or on the loft floor. In those days it was just an accepted way of working.

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Here is the Carter Texas 36, mid cut between Ydra and Ganbare. Enjoy.

 

 

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I sailed a bunch on a Carter 36, lots of tumblehome midships. She was an upwind machine and not that bad off the wind either. Lots of good memories on that boat.

Here is the Carter Texas 36, mid cut between Ydra and Ganbare. Enjoy.

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I'd be content just looking at it.

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