chorus1

Dick Carter design boats

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Make me think of the 35 feet from D.Peterson designed later no ?????????????????????

 

 

MavisIII.jpg

 

 

I found out Eleuthea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is now MavisIII, based Gosport. Changed helm for a wheel :(

What about Mavis ??? History,Ranking, owner, comments other pictures ?

Would she be a Carter 35 as my yellow site avatar ???

 

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Eleuthera: as far as memory serves she was Class III (one-ton).

 

This was a same generation design as the Carter 32 production 3/4 ton.

The 35 was a production 3/4 tonner post 77 evolved from Ragtime and recognizable from the longer stepped transom profile.

 

Back around 77 there was a longer, and of a further evoved design than Eleuthera, one-ton, also bright-finished, called Lancer IIRC

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Carter designed, from 35 to 37 feet, N.Y.C : anaybody met that cute boat ???????????????

Her name was Eleuthea or Eleuthera (Bahamas island)

 

She was a One tonner. In fact the prototype for the fiberglass production "Texas One tonner".

ELEUTHEADCARTER.jpg

Urethra.

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On that times some boats were very looking like.....some others

Who can have said that Young Nick was not a Tina but an S&S ??????????????

 

Young%20Nick%20Dockside.jpg

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Please find some photos of our fully restored and modified wooden Tina. She was build by Nautique Saintonge in France in 1969, as a ketch. We bought her in 1998 and brought her to the Netherlands for restauration. 5000 hours of labour later we relaunched her in 2003 as l' Esprit du Morbihan. We are still searching for any information on this wooden Tina. The other 4 Tina's were built by Frans Maas in Breskens, 15 in Steel, 25 in GRP.

post-53371-086540100 1307819063_thumb.jpg

post-53371-040714900 1307819194_thumb.jpg

post-53371-082037900 1307819318_thumb.jpg

post-53371-091134200 1307819494_thumb.jpg

post-53371-014532700 1307819624_thumb.jpg

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Well and alive

 

Pol Renot's 45' Maas steel-built in 1966 as one of many "Gerfaut"

Now sailing, racing and winning in Marseilles as "Jericho"

post-6361-069515100 1308394022_thumb.jpg

post-6361-083679800 1308394069_thumb.jpg

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Steel made = strong made, look at the right Forestay of such an old boat !!! with genoa max and breeze

 

Well and alive

 

Pol Renot's 45' Maas steel-built in 1966 as one of many "Gerfaut"

Now sailing, racing and winning in Marseilles as "Jericho"

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Carter 51 (Pharaon) for sale in NZ. Corten Steel made by Frans Maas in Holland.

 

http://www.vinings.c...ontainer-center

 

post-28066-000205800 1309659680_thumb.jpgpost-28066-071872600 1309659770_thumb.jpgpost-28066-007144100 1309659851_thumb.jpg

 

This was a very well born boat, originally built for Gaston Defferre, 33 years mayor of Marseilles and later a senior French minister, as "Palynodie" (within a series of S&S, Carter, Chance, S&S and Finot boats). Very successful in the Med, she became "Pharaon" for a local lawyer Mr Teychene and kept winning, including a quite controversial 1st in the Giraglia, IIRC.

 

Defferre was a true sailor not just an owner,able to move from a Class 1 to a 1/2 ton just to find more competition.

Those who raced Marseilles week, in its heydays, will remember the fantastic party he was offering in the town-hall for all participating crews, without any exclusive.

post-6361-098295000 1309685646_thumb.jpg

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Shame on the last owner to put such an unstyled additional roof, its really a pity....

Gaston still turning into his graveyard :(

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As an on the water follow-up to this thread, 23 classics are getting ready for a Douarnenez-Azores and back race website

 

This is the "interim" long distance between their four-yearly transatlantic.

 

Besides the usual Tinas, the Azoreans have entered "Airmail" a 1973 Storebro built Carter 42, formerly under US flag. Typical Carter 42 hull shape with a varnished coach-roof "à la Tina".

 

Curiosity led to the internet and The Storebro website uncovered that if they only built 3 of those, they had built 20 Carter 40 from 1970 to 1974 !

 

The number of Carter boats built in the 1st half of the 70's is truly impressive.

post-6361-022021400 1310216668_thumb.jpg

post-6361-072016500 1310216954_thumb.jpg

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A friend of mine went up and took some pics of RABBIT in Deer Harbor. I'd post them here but they are just too sad.

The boat is on the hard and for sale by the yard owner. It's a mess. I'm sure the deck hasn't been washed in ten years.

 

She was a winch mine.

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Bob One day with a pressure washer and she would look much better,,,,,,JohnB)

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Pops:

I agree that would help with surface cosmetics but I am afraid that the hull to deck joint they used at that yard has not faired too well over the years.

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The free board at that times were very high for a carter design isn'it ?

 

As an on the water follow-up to this thread, 23 classics are getting ready for a Douarnenez-Azores and back race website

 

This is the "interim" long distance between their four-yearly transatlantic.

 

Besides the usual Tinas, the Azoreans have entered "Airmail" a 1973 Storebro built Carter 42, formerly under US flag. Typical Carter 42 hull shape with a varnished coach-roof "à la Tina".

 

Curiosity led to the internet and The Storebro website uncovered that if they only built 3 of those, they had built 20 Carter 40 from 1970 to 1974 !

 

The number of Carter boats built in the 1st half of the 70's is truly impressive.

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As an on the water follow-up to this thread, 23 classics are getting ready for a Douarnenez-Azores and back race website

 

This is the "interim" long distance between their four-yearly transatlantic.

 

Besides the usual Tinas, the Azoreans have entered "Airmail" a 1973 Storebro built Carter 42, formerly under US flag. Typical Carter 42 hull shape with a varnished coach-roof "à la Tina".

 

Curiosity led to the internet and The Storebro website uncovered that if they only built 3 of those, they had built 20 Carter 40 from 1970 to 1974 !

 

The number of Carter boats built in the 1st half of the 70's is truly impressive.

 

 

Aggressive, the flush deck 2 Tonner for the Canada's Cup was the prototype for Airmail and Tiderace. All built by Storebro Bruk.

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Would be nice to get some info about Tina, some sexy stories too, comon Anarchists !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Chorus, great idea, but to get on my favourite hobby horse and again ask, does anybody know what happened to YDRA. If Ganbare can pop up on this site surely some sleuth out there can find Ydra.

ciao - 5*

 

Would be nice to get some info about Tina, some sexy stories too, comon Anarchists !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The 1979 AC-Cupper Blizzard was in fact a Frers Design, but the boat in the picture should be Assidous, a swiss owned Contessa 39 designed by Doug Peterson. She was a survivor of the 79 Fastnet storm.

Would Blizzard have been a Carter too ? (She looks too like a Frers...)

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A friend of mine went up and took some pics of RABBIT in Deer Harbor. I'd post them here but they are just too sad.

The boat is on the hard and for sale by the yard owner. It's a mess. I'm sure the deck hasn't been washed in ten years.

 

She was a winch mine.

 

We did a

 

We did a sail from Friday Harbor back to Deer Harbor after the Shaw Island Classic MANY years ago on Rabbit. We had so many sails up we ran out of sheet winches!

 

JM

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The 1979 AC-Cupper Blizzard was in fact a Frers Design, but the boat in the picture should be Assidous, a swiss owned Contessa 39 designed by Doug Peterson. She was a survivor of the 79 Fastnet storm.

Would Blizzard have been a Carter too ? (She looks too like a Frers...)

 

 

Yes, exactly, except it is spelled Assiduous. She is a sister to Eclipse and Dawn Treader some of the best from Jeremy Rogers and Doug Peterson. The Australian Blizzards were all about twice the size as the boat in the photo (which I'll repeat here):

post-33230-097818300 1311862214_thumb.jpg

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Hum, Ydra memories seem out :(

I tried via A&R to get any information but white paper :)

 

Chorus, great idea, but to get on my favourite hobby horse and again ask, does anybody know what happened to YDRA. If Ganbare can pop up on this site surely some sleuth out there can find Ydra.

ciao - 5*

 

Would be nice to get some info about Tina, some sexy stories too, comon Anarchists !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I have discovered the Italian version of Sailing Anachy and have posted the same question there. Maybe I will get lucky. ciao - 5*

 

Hum, Ydra memories seem out :(

I tried via A&R to get any information but white paper :)

 

Chorus, great idea, but to get on my favourite hobby horse and again ask, does anybody know what happened to YDRA. If Ganbare can pop up on this site surely some sleuth out there can find Ydra.

ciao - 5*

 

Would be nice to get some info about Tina, some sexy stories too, comon Anarchists !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Hello!

 

Some pictures coming from my Cpost-54827-052684900 1312559136_thumb.jpgarter 33, build in Greece in 1975. I think that it's here like Gitana, nobody had seen this when we had to disassemble it to changes ertalon rings.

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Some pictures coming from my Carter 33, build in Greece in 1975. I think that it's here like Gitana, nobody had seen this when we had to disassemble it to changes ertalon rings.

Seen what?

 

What are we looking for?

_______

 

I sailed Carter 33s for a couple of years in Greece. Nice little boats. It would sail better if you replace the 3-bladed prop with a folding prop...

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Else:

I think he is pointing out the "golf tee" rudder geometry as you see it on the skeg with the rudder removed.

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Else:

I think he is pointing out the "golf tee" rudder geometry as you see it on the skeg with the rudder removed.

 

Thank you Bob!!!

My english is so poor....

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My english is so poor....

No no no; your English is excellent. MUCH better than my French!

 

I just didn't know if we were supposed to see some structural failure.

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My english is so poor....

No no no; your English is excellent. MUCH better than my French!

 

I just didn't know if we were supposed to see some structural failure.

 

OK, no failure but only this détail never seen here to remove the rudder, you have to pull the stock (hum...google translation, hope it's good) from the cockpit, then rudder become free (instead of other boat where rudder and stock are one, and you have to lift boat to remove it all)

 

Gloups!!!! reading on forums is some thing rather easy, but writting and trying to be understandable is another exercice much more difficult.

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Doe's someboby know about this one, Carter 39, molded wood, won fastnet, and run admiral's cup. I saw her yesterday afternoon, and was disappointed to note her poor condition...I hope a new purchaser will come rapidly to restore her and make her feeling the breeze again...

http://www.boats-diffusion.com/pc21172/carter-39.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-54827-054720600 1312573319_thumb.jpg

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Hum J-Louis,

 

think this is a "oneoff" 39 feet carter (aloy built) who won fasnet and was a member of the British AC team, her name was "Frigate", not the wooden boat on your picture.

 

Frigate

 

 

 

 

Doe's someboby know about this one, Carter 39, molded wood, won fastnet, and run admiral's cup. I saw her yesterday afternoon, and was disappointed to note her poor condition...I hope a new purchaser will come rapidly to restore her and make her feeling the breeze again...

http://www.boats-dif.../carter-39.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hum J-Louis,

 

think this is a "oneoff" 39 feet carter (aloy built) who won fasnet and was a member of the British AC team, her name was "Frigate", not the wooden boat on your picture.

 

Frigate

 

 

 

 

Doe's someboby know about this one, Carter 39, molded wood, won fastnet, and run admiral's cup. I saw her yesterday afternoon, and was disappointed to note her poor condition...I hope a new purchaser will come rapidly to restore her and make her feeling the breeze again...

http://www.boats-dif.../carter-39.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chorus, so you think the seller is à liar! :rolleyes:

The boat I saw is a Carter 39 in wood but didn't won fasnet, that's you mean?

post-54827-056877500 1312581176_thumb.jpg

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I don't think that is a Carter 39 Louis.

 

That looks like it could be FRIGATE or the other boat, I forget the name, of the same vintage. I think they were 42'ers.

 

Yves-Marie will know for sure.

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Could it be Marbelle a cold molded Carter 39, built by SANGERMANI, which sailed for Italy in 1973 and Spain in 1975. Had a blue hull.

5*

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Should be Mabelle

5*

Yes, that's the boat I was trying to think of. Beautiful lines. Designed just before the IOR got all bumpy.

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J-Louis,

 

i just think seller is palying with words :)

 

Hum J-Louis,

 

think this is a "oneoff" 39 feet carter (aloy built) who won fasnet and was a member of the British AC team, her name was "Frigate", not the wooden boat on your picture.

 

Frigate

 

 

 

 

Doe's someboby know about this one, Carter 39, molded wood, won fastnet, and run admiral's cup. I saw her yesterday afternoon, and was disappointed to note her poor condition...I hope a new purchaser will come rapidly to restore her and make her feeling the breeze again...

http://www.boats-dif.../carter-39.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chorus, so you think the seller is à liar! :rolleyes:

The boat I saw is a Carter 39 in wood but didn't won fasnet, that's you mean?

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i just think seller is palying with words :)

 

 

So, let him play and dream of finding a "pigeon" ready to pay that price to get a yacht still nice but within engine, old sails, and so much work to "awake" Mabelle.

It is a so long time she is for sale, and i see her become damaged months after months.

 

Next time I'll go in "Port Camargue", I will look more in détails, also her name.

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I could not find the price being asked. What is it?

 

i just think seller is palying with words :)

 

 

So, let him play and dream of finding a "pigeon" ready to pay that price to get a yacht still nice but within engine, old sails, and so much work to "awake" Mabelle.

It is a so long time she is for sale, and i see her become damaged months after months.

 

Next time I'll go in "Port Camargue", I will look more in détails, also her name.

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My first thought when I saw last night's posts was the same as you guys : "Mabelle III" di Serena Zaffagni: build year, material, wedged coach-roof..

 

After a quick google search: this is not Mabelle : the Sangermani Carter is still in original condition, sailing out of Ravenna and competing in the Adriatic racing circuit.

 

See: boat and program

 

Sangermani only ever built one Carter design and that was Mabelle. Where could that one have been built ?

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I could not find the price being asked. What is it?

 

i just think seller is palying with words :)

 

 

So, let him play and dream of finding a "pigeon" ready to pay that price to get a yacht still nice but within engine, old sails, and so much work to "awake" Mabelle.

It is a so long time she is for sale, and i see her become damaged months after months.

 

Next time I'll go in "Port Camargue", I will look more in détails, also her name.

 

Far too much : Euros 69000 !! although it could well a be a winner (hull form v/s build date) in the oceangoing classic circuit there is a lot to be spent !

broker's link

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I don't think that is a Carter 39 Louis.

 

That looks like it could be FRIGATE or the other boat, I forget the name, of the same vintage. I think they were 42'ers.

 

Yves-Marie will know for sure.

 

 

Mabelle, for Mrs. Serena Zaffagni was designed just after Frigate. Both built for the 1973 Admiral's Cup. I skippered Mabelle for the event. Interesting sailing with the Italian Team. After a disastrous start for the Fastnet Race, having lost over one hour re-crossing the line with no wind and strong current. We had a serious come back from behind. At the end spliting tacks with Ted Turner's Lightning going offshore for more wind, did we see our chances evaporate.

Mr. Sangermani, post-32003-039246000 1312640967_thumb.jpg was convinced that he had been sent to Earth to design and built magnificent boats. During construction inspections, it was a pleasure to work with this man.

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Y_M - so right about Sangermani. Privileged to sail on many of his creations, including the first Il Moro.

 

But his own designs were unique as well. He had a particularly unique way of managing owners. I remember once being in the yard in 1978, and an owner came in to see progress on the 60 footer he'd ordered. The whole floor was a soft, fragrant spongy mass of generations of wood shavings and sawdust, and the owner and I stood under the boat, being beautifully tongue-and-groove planked in mahogany over exquisite frames.

 

We thought that the boat looked a bit bigger than 60 feet, but put it down to perspective in the shed. Until the owner actually paced it out, and it was nearer 75. When he gently asked Sangermani about the discrepancy, he was told that the design didn't look quite right as a 60, so he'd stretched it to be a more pleasing shape. Which indeed it was. The owner wasn't consulted of course, it just got done - the Sangermani way.

 

Doesn't happen like that now, more's the pity. Nowadays it'd be a stopped check and a lawsuit.

 

Sangermani would also absolutely refuse to build a boat for anyone he didn't consider a gentleman. If he found out he didn't like the owner during the build, he was quite likely to sell the boat to someone else on his long waiting list.

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Re Sangermani, a classic example was Gitana IV. Meant to have been 75' but turned out 90'. The Baron was apparently not initially happy, but she became his very favorite boat.

 

One of the loveliest boats of all time. And she's for sale!

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If the yacht shown is not Mabelle, then could it be L 'OrqueilV, also designed by Carter with a rating of 29.5, which was built in 1973 and sailed for France thr same year. Hull colour blue.

5*

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If the yacht shown is not Mabelle, then could it be L 'OrqueilV, also designed by Carter with a rating of 29.5, which was built in 1973 and sailed for France thr same year. Hull colour blue.

5*

 

No: L'Orgueil IV was a standard flush-deck Carter 39, sistership to Mersea Oyster, so GRP.

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I hope he gives some answers. maybe it is actually Frigate. She was damaged in La rochelle in 1975 and perhaps when being repaired the coach roof was modified. If one looks at the first photo published there appears to be at the rear of the coach roof the holes through which the halyards etc exited?

5*

I just wrotte to the owner/seller to ask more.Hope he will answer....

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Realy positive suggestion for that blue carter boat ....

I met also OrgueilV some long times ago in little Brittany, but i remember on my side it was a Tina design ..... and not a carter37 or 39....

 

Better brain release let us know ???? :)

 

 

 

If the yacht shown is not Mabelle, then could it be L 'OrqueilV, also designed by Carter with a rating of 29.5, which was built in 1973 and sailed for France thr same year. Hull colour blue.

5*

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Realy positive suggestion for that blue carter boat ....

I met also OrgueilV some long times ago in little Brittany, but i remember on my side it was a Tina design ..... and not a carter37 or 39....

 

Better brain release let us know ???? :)

 

 

 

If the yacht shown is not Mabelle, then could it be L 'OrqueilV, also designed by Carter with a rating of 29.5, which was built in 1973 and sailed for France thr same year. Hull colour blue.

5*

 

I was wrong with the number, The Flush Deck production Carter 39 was L'Orgueil V, before that Mr Des Moutis had L'Orgueil IV a Tina which did pretty well and earlier IIRC a Cornu 9.3

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And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

post-54827-035559500 1312737336_thumb.jpg

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Great to get this mystry cleared up.

Now if we all put our sleuthing powers together, I am sure we can discover the fate/where abouts of YDRA, the Dick Carter one Tonner the forefather of FRIGATE.

5*

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Just to be cristal clear about Frigate, do you cinfirm she was wooden made and not alloy ?? (Bob or YM)

 

And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

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Congratulations on a superb deduction Fivestar !

 

I thought it deserved some archive digging.

 

So here are some shots of Frigate and the La Rochelle crane which triggered the redesign of Frigate coach-roof.

post-6361-062945500 1312796206_thumb.jpg

post-6361-027985400 1312796283_thumb.jpg

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Frigate was Cold Molded by Souters. Lots of details in "To win the Admirals Cup" by Dick Kenny.

 

Just to be cristal clear about Frigate, do you cinfirm she was wooden made and not alloy ?? (Bob or YM)

 

And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

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Just to be cristal clear about Frigate, do you cinfirm she was wooden made and not alloy ?? (Bob or YM)

 

And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

 

 

Frigate was wooden built by Souters. Cowes.

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Hi J- Louis,

Have you heard from the owner?, it would be interesting to learn the history of the yacht from September 1977 when she was damaged in La Rochelle to now.

5*

 

And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

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Hi J- Louis,

Have you heard from the owner?, it would be interesting to learn the history of the yacht from September 1977 when she was damaged in La Rochelle to now.

5*

 

And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

 

 

I've got à short answer from him telling that he was in a foreign country and would be back in France next week. I think I'll call him in a few days and then tell you "the news"...

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And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

 

Either the bolts have sprung from the back of the Port Toe rail or the original fit was god awful.

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And the winner is......

Congratulations for those who had recognised her!!!!

 

At this point, not any answer from seller but i went to Port Camargue this afternoon. No name on the boat but only on the hood wheel.

 

Either the bolts have sprung from the back of the Port Toe rail or the original fit was god awful.

 

Yes, it seems to be cut, and the bolts holes are still open. Hope wood is not completely rooten....

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Tribute to Richard Carter : realisation for an Italian Carter's boat Fan, enjoy !!!!

 

C37cBoisCopyright.jpg

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Tribute to Richard Carter : realisation for an Italian Carter's boat Fan, enjoy !!!!

 

C37cBoisCopyright.jpg

 

Nice work indeed !

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Yes really great job!

Quick question: I noticed on a fairing 37 in the propeller shaft out at the rear of the keel while the location of the engine seems classical under the steps of the descent.

Is it correct? How is the transmission forward universal joint?

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I think there was a hydraulic drive. look at the layout of Ydra below

5*

 

Yes really great job!

Quick question: I noticed on a fairing 37 in the propeller shaft out at the rear of the keel while the location of the engine seems classical under the steps of the descent.

Is it correct? How is the transmission forward universal joint?

post-52142-081614800 1313745713_thumb.jpg

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Latest news from the Fastnet Website:

 

France also dominated IRC Class 4 in the familiar form of Jean Yves Chateau's Nicholson 33, Iromiguy (FRA), overall winner of the Rolex Fastnet Race in 2007, ahead of Persephone (FRA), Yves Lambert's Stand Fast 37/Tina.[/quote]

 

Not bad , Eh ! Laser1 ;)

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Yes really great job!

Quick question: I noticed on a fairing 37 in the propeller shaft out at the rear of the keel while the location of the engine seems classical under the steps of the descent.

Is it correct? How is the transmission forward universal joint?

 

Hydraulic drive installation drawing, for the original aluminum built YDRA.post-32003-045902400 1313851838_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for all, I learn a lot, very interesting topic!!!

 

I had a phone call with Frigate's owner, I'll meet him in a few week near the boat. Perhaps he'll come here to tell you about her.

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Latest news from the Fastnet Website:

 

France also dominated IRC Class 4 in the familiar form of Jean Yves Chateau's Nicholson 33, Iromiguy (FRA), overall winner of the Rolex Fastnet Race in 2007, ahead of Persephone (FRA), Yves Lambert's Stand Fast 37/Tina.

 

Not bad , Eh ! Laser1 ;)

 

 

Go the oldies !! I was on board of Persephone (ex. Zeehaas) yesterday in Plymouth and had a chat with Mr. Lambert. Dad should have never sold the boat.

 

Oh the memories, boat was looking stunning btw.

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YM, this may be a stupid question but was the lug there for lifting the boat?

5*

Yes really great job!

Quick question: I noticed on a fairing 37 in the propeller shaft out at the rear of the keel while the location of the engine seems classical under the steps of the descent.

Is it correct? How is the transmission forward universal joint?

 

Hydraulic drive installation drawing, for the original aluminum built YDRA.post-32003-045902400 1313851838_thumb.jpg

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I'd worked that half hull for him :)

 

Frigateboiscopyright.jpg

 

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Thanks for all, I learn a lot, very interesting topic!!!

 

I had a phone call with Frigate's owner, I'll meet him in a few week near the boat. Perhaps he'll come here to tell you about her.

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YM, this may be a stupid question but was the lug there for lifting the boat?

5*

Yes really great job!

Quick question: I noticed on a fairing 37 in the propeller shaft out at the rear of the keel while the location of the engine seems classical under the steps of the descent.

Is it correct? How is the transmission forward universal joint?

 

Hydraulic drive installation drawing, for the original aluminum built YDRA.post-32003-045902400 1313851838_thumb.jpg

 

 

Lifting lug. Easy to build on a metal boat. Ydra was shipped to Australia for the One Ton Cup.post-32003-041222400 1314025596_thumb.jpg

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Tribute to D.Carter : Red Roster

 

RedRoosterCopyright.jpg

 

Tribute to D.Carter : Izenah III, sister ship of Red Rooster with a fixed keel and full roof.

 

 

IZENAH%20IIICopyrightl.jpg

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Last but not least : RED ROOSTER, fasnet 1969.

Not a lot of picts to draw her as real as possible :(

 

 

 

 

 

RED%20ROOSTERCopyright.jpg

 

 

RED%20ROOSTERCopyright.jpg

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As a tribute to Dick Carter and Tina's breakthrough, here are some shots from a book which was the bible of any wannabe crew in the late 60s.

 

It was comparing Tina's hull form, to a modern euro design in the middle, and a classic German or Swede design (right), all racing in the '66 OTC which Tina won, then showing how smooth Tina's progress in the chop was.

 

The first upwind photo is defiitely how I remember the Tinas: clearly showing their forefoot when going upwind.

 

I guess the middle boat may trigger remembrances with Yves-Marie, as I&P designed her (Maryka/Arabel) one year after "Merle of M" with lots of similarities.

 

Actually what led me to dig that book out was that today on the way back from the office, I drove by the harbour and what is the best restoration yard in France and ... here was the I&P: one of two of the boats, I sailed, I'll remember fondly for ever ! She is far for perfect, but not too bad and going for a full refit :)

 

PS: sorry for mixing up I&P into a Carter thread.

 

I guess I reply to myself. How odd.

I also think that I can cover Illingworth & Primerose and Carter, having worked for both of them. Pioneers.

I was the skipper of Marika in 66 (that is 1966) in Denmark when I first met with Dick Carter racing in the One ton World.

Marika was a transom stern, outboard rudder one tonner. Hard not to be impress with a Tina.

 

I figured you had been involved with Maryka in her one-ton guise. As you may know she was sold at the end of that year to the Le Couteur family (of the Arabel series) who entered her into the '67 OTC trials then lost her top-mast from a running-backstay problem. The new mast was subsequently "cut" at the forestay height.

She was sold to the 3rd owner (one of the very best old-school -read no GPS- navigators) in whose crew I was, she was now at the top of Class IV and we got the success she deserved, as soon as others were reefing she was the queen going upwind in a blow with the best one-tons: a few race wins, a RORC championship, culminating in a Cowes-Dinard win as late as '75, after which she retired, having offered to her crew the opportunity to be invited on much more modern and attractive boats.

The introduction of the Star-Cut was a great boost to her, it gave her an other extremely strong point-of-sail in tight reaches, so powerful she was.

Besides living onboard on deliveries in true J-H Illingworth comfort - a wonderful "girls' attraction" - I'll remember the lenticular South-Coast-Rod-Rigging pieces of art and the Barlow (Australia) needle-winches, so silent, but a lot of maintenance, and of course the pointy-ends storm spinnaker quickly nick-named "Mrs Ratsey's panties"

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Third co-owners of Arabel III were Francis Bourgeois and Xavier Lizée, who both were jet fighters pilots in the French Navy (Aéronavale) : Bourgeois on Crusader and 'Gaston' Lizée on Etendard. I can testify that both were first class sailors and racing skippers, and you learned a lot sailing with them.

 

Interestingly enough, one must know that Dr. Le Couteur bought an Ohlson 35 as "Arabel IV", however, with Bourgeois and Lizée skipping, Arabel IV was almost unable to beat Arabel III. I remember once Dr. Le Couteur, quite upset, while controlling arrivals of some race at the Brest harbour Pilot station pier (he was a prominent member of the SRB (Société des Régates de Brest)), and once more obliged to quote Arabel III ahead of Arabel IV. On the line, 'Franck' Bourgeois couldn't help from an ironical : "So, the old boat still gives her steam, doesn't she ... ?!" ("Alors, il marche encore, le vieux canote, non ... ?!"). Dr. Le Couteur shouted : "Pfff ... ! Yeaah ... ! but you have a whole set of brand new sails !!" ("Pfff ... ! Ouais ... ! Mais t'as un jeu de voiles toutes neuves !!") (Bourgeois and Lizée had almost ruined themselves with wonderful Hood sails, and a superb star-cut spinnaker - North sails or Bruce Banks, 'can't remember). Bourgeois immediately replied : "But ... you too have got new sails ... !!!" ("Ben ... toi aussi, t'as des voiles neuves ... !!!") (Arabel IV was a brand new racer at the time ... :P )

 

Arabel III was really a great boat, and great achievement of Illingworth & Primrose. She is, in my opinion, far superior to the Maica class. She has more beam (3,10 m against 2,72 m only for Maica), she has a longer waterline (8,20m, for only 7,50m for Maica) although she is more than one meter shorter (LOA 10,15m vs. 11,28 m for Maica), making her a more 'compact' boat. And being heavy (7 tons of displacement) with a high ballast/total displacement ratio (she has almost 4 tons of lead ballast !), she is very stiff, with a tremendous ability to hold her sails in strong winds. All this goes with extremely elegant and soft water lines. Her lines have a much greater elegance and fluidity than Maica : in this respect, she truly received her heritage from Brigantine, much more than from the transom stern original Maica. Her 'secret weapon' : her long and deep keel, along with her huge outboard rudder (the deeper it goes, the wider it is ... ) gives her absolute steering control in almost all sea conditions. This is why she was able to hold her starcut tight in windy and uneasy seas, giving her full power, when all the others were losing steering control and had to haul down their spinnakers ... !

 

While she could have some hard times against competitors when reaching downwind in medium light breeze, she truly was imperial in strong winds and sailing close hauled to the wind. More than once have I seen her coming from leeward to windward at a higher speed and closer route than bigger competitors she left behind ... ! Such a power and speed, close to the wind ... Unbelievable.

 

I don't know anyone who was lucky enough to sail Arabel III, who hasn't been impressed for life by her brilliant qualities, her great sea-worthiness, and unique personality.

And I'm greatly indebted to Francis Bourgeois and Xavier Lizée for that.

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Third co-owners of Arabel III were Francis Bourgeois and Xavier Lizée, who both were jet fighters pilots in the French Navy (Aéronavale) : Bourgeois on Crusader and 'Gaston' Lizée on Etendard. I can testify that both were first class sailors and racing skippers, and you learned a lot sailing with them.

 

Interestingly enough, one must know that Dr. Le Couteur bought an Ohlson 35 as "Arabel IV", however, with Bourgeois and Lizée skipping, Arabel IV was almost unable to beat Arabel III. I remember once Dr. Le Couteur, quite upset, while controlling arrivals of some race at the Brest harbour Pilot station pier (he was a prominent member of the SRB (Société des Régates de Brest)), and once more obliged to quote Arabel III ahead of Arabel IV. On the line, 'Franck' Bourgeois couldn't help from an ironical : "So, the old boat still gives her steam, doesn't she ... ?!" ("Alors, il marche encore, le vieux canote, non ... ?!"). Dr. Le Couteur shouted : "Pfff ... ! Yeaah ... ! but you have a whole set of brand new sails !!" ("Pfff ... ! Ouais ... ! Mais t'as un jeu de voiles toutes neuves !!") (Bourgeois and Lizée had almost ruined themselves with wonderful Hood sails, and a superb star-cut spinnaker - North sails or Bruce Banks, 'can't remember). Bourgeois immediately replied : "But ... you too have got new sails ... !!!" ("Ben ... toi aussi, t'as des voiles neuves ... !!!") (Arabel IV was a brand new racer at the time ... :P )

 

Arabel III was really a great boat, and great achievement of Illingworth & Primrose. She is, in my opinion, far superior to the Maica class. She has more beam (3,10 m against 2,72 m only for Maica), she has a longer waterline (8,20m, for only 7,50m for Maica) although she is more than one meter shorter (LOA 10,15m vs. 11,28 m for Maica), making her a more 'compact' boat. And being heavy (7 tons of displacement) with a high ballast/total displacement ratio (she has almost 4 tons of lead ballast !), she is very stiff, with a tremendous ability to hold her sails in strong winds. All this goes with extremely elegant and soft water lines. Her lines have a much greater elegance and fluidity than Maica : in this respect, she truly received her heritage from Brigantine, much more than from the transom stern original Maica. Her 'secret weapon' : her long and deep keel, along with her huge outboard rudder (the deeper it goes, the wider it is ... ) gives her absolute steering control in almost all sea conditions. This is why she was able to hold her starcut tight in windy and uneasy seas, giving her full power, when all the others were losing steering control and had to haul down their spinnakers ... !

 

While she could have some hard times against competitors when reaching downwind in medium light breeze, she truly was imperial in strong winds and sailing close hauled to the wind. More than once have I seen her coming from leeward to windward at a higher speed and closer route than bigger competitors she left behind ... ! Such a power and speed, close to the wind ... Unbelievable.

 

I don't know anyone who was lucky enough to sail Arabel III, who hasn't been impressed for life by her brilliant qualities, her great sea-worthiness, and unique personality.

And I'm greatly indebted to Francis Bourgeois and Xavier Lizée for that.

 

I can confirm what you say and do agree with the credits to FB and and XL (prominent members of the Ejection Tie Club).

Two corrections though:

While Dr Lecouteur was an early menber of the SRB at the time of Arabel he had founded the rival club YCRB with most of the offshore sailors following a yearly GM which was rather "punchy" to say the least: those were the days: great boats and great atmosphere :)

"gives her absolute steering control in almost all sea conditions" there is an exception to that: dead downwind in strong breeze with a following sea, she was alternatively dipping the boom and pole for hours, I remember sailing that way from Royal Sovereign, or such, to CH1, with two strong people on the tiller. Actually this is a "classic" with long-keel non-planing boats as I have experienced time and time again, on other designs.

 

The Starcut was from Banks, out of Ken Rose's design early series (North was still in infancy in Europe at that time), I had been in charge of that project and the details are still in my "boats" file, with A3 IOR certificate, the cloth was 2 oz english weight (over 1.6 oz Us weight) !!!

 

If you are still often in Brest, A III is ashore in front of Chantier du Guip after an encounter with rocks, still as attractive but in need of a wealthy owner and full refit.

 

Finally to the credit of the late Dr Lecouteur, the Ohlson 35s were near-dogs and never won anything in the Channel whatever the crew.

post-6361-025627800 1323603016_thumb.jpg

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post-32003-030151800 1323613218_thumb.jpg

Yes, that is me. One Ton 1966. Denmark.

 

In the pre-vang era? Is the mainsheet in a claw to facilitate roller reefing?

 

The backstay seems to be set up hard. And the winches look enormous.

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post-32003-030151800 1323613218_thumb.jpg

Yes, that is me. One Ton 1966. Denmark.

 

Fantastic shot Yves-Marie! I can clearly see my only enemy on board Maryka/Arabel: the main-halyard captive winch with a S/S halyard ! How to lose time when shortening sails and risk your fingers.

I also noted the Gibb winches and am only too glad they had in my time been replaced by Barients (and I did work for Mike Gibb).

 

I grabbed from a 1966 Round The Island race BBC film some rare shots from Maryka with her 7/8th rig.

On the above 70's photograph she was at 25.1 IOR as opposed to 22 feet RORC (roughly 27.5 IOR) in original guise.

post-6361-074129000 1323615723_thumb.jpg

post-6361-031327200 1323615740_thumb.jpg

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post-32003-030151800 1323613218_thumb.jpg

Yes, that is me. One Ton 1966. Denmark.

 

In the pre-vang era? Is the mainsheet in a claw to facilitate roller reefing?

 

The backstay seems to be set up hard. And the winches look enormous.

 

Vangs (or better kicking straps in that case) were well known at the time.

On roller-reefing booms they were a problem though, as they would have required a "claw" as the one you see for the main-sheet.

To add up complication, given the working angle of the kicking-strap, you would then need an articulated rigid strut from the "claw" to the gooseneck to prevent it from sliding forward ! It works though ! I have one on my dayboat.

On Maryka/Arabel the problem was solved upwind thanks to the roof-top mainsheet-track (at the boom mid-point and close to max-beam), while reaching and down-wind you had to fit a "preventer" clipped to the leeward toe-rail and tensioned with a purchase.

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J.Louis,

Did you ever get to meet Frigate's owner and learn of her history?

5*

 

Thanks for all, I learn a lot, very interesting topic!!!

 

I had a phone call with Frigate's owner, I'll meet him in a few week near the boat. Perhaps he'll come here to tell you about her.

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Hello!

Yes I met Frigate's owner two months ago....and the boat is really sick, I don't know if he is able to repair her.

Difficult for me to say more within speaking evil, sorry! But I can say Frigate is in danger and time goes wrong for her.

 

The owner doesn't know anything about the story since "La Rochelle".

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All I can do is ask.

 

Do any of you have any idea what has happened to Ydra?

We found Frigate in France and various other Carter designs have turned up. Even the original Doug Petersen design Ganabe recently turned up restored for sale in Italy..

Given that Ydra was constructed in aluminium, I would have thought she has a better chance of surviving than some of the cold moulded yachts.

 

rgds - 5*