chorus1

Dick Carter design boats

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Whow !

A shortwhile out of SA and the thread is booming ! not too good for early morning work ;)

 

Many thanks for the pics and docs Catherine.

I particularly like the Rabbit II pic, sailing with the kids certainly added to your father's image this side of the Atlantic.

This remembers me of a very good article, in a French mag of the time, about a cruise on Red Rooster in the Golfe du Morbihan.I'll try to fetch it for you, in the attic, but it may take days.

 

For now, here is a pic I grabbed on the net sometime ago, which shows your father in French AC uniform !

Smoking in the forefront is Baron Rothschild, the bald-headed guy is Eric Tabarly's father "Babar", next to him is Gerard Petipas ET's right hand man and manager (who if memory serves me well was Gitana V project manager).

Those uniforms were the first outing of the "Equinoxe" sailing apparel company which one of the crews was ready to launch big scale.

 

Thanks too to Sy Sunday for that little gem, hope Laser1 gets to see it ;)

post-6361-0-23228200-1388652208_thumb.jpg

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Two photos of Tina, Dad at the helm, during the 1966 One Ton Cup in Copenhagen. My Dad has a photo series of Tina overtaking Ted Hood's boat at the leeward mark. Dad was working for Ted Hood at the time, trying to market Hood sails to the international racing community. After Tina won the One Ton Cup, neither Dad nor Ted ever spoke about the race, but Dad said that when he returned to Ted's sail loft in Marblehead there was 'major league tension' in the office.

French interesting article with Richard Ed Carter interview : http://www.demi-coques.fr/articlevoile/tina

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Bob Perry's article in Sailing Magazine, March 1989.

Workin currently about French Translation of this article, in my web site.

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Ym du have any drawings of this cute boat for a half hull ?

Only the sections of Noryema, designed for Ron Amey who had a long stream of successful racers.

I'll see what I can do when back from Europe.

PS: Too many really good boats, but Noryema is also a beautiful one.

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Great to see Catherine here. The thread has really come to life.

 

Note that I was really pissed off at the title the magazine gave my article on Dick. "Dick Carter: a retrospective" would have been more to my liking. The article was never intended to be about me. I need to read it again to see what otrher apologies are required at this date. I never kept a copy. Never thought it would be important or valuable. Glad Catherine had the sense to track it down and save it.

 

OK, I went back and read my article on Dick. It's pretty damn good. I'm impressed with the job I did. But I had affection for the subject and for anyone at all interested in the history of ocean racing designs Dick's work is very important.

 

I think one of my most vivid memories of Dick came a few years after I left "the tower". I was at the Nap Show with the Valiant group and I ran into Dick. I'll set the stage:

 

While at the tower Dick had asked Yves-Marie, Chuck, Mark and me to come up with an idea for a 38' cruising boat. He wanted four independant proposals for the concept. I had been starting on the Valiant 40 design at home so I drew for a Dick a 38' version of the double ended Valiant. We got together one afternoon and all presented our proposals. Yves-Marie Chuck and Mark had very Carteresque preliminary sketches and Dick looked them over one by one very carefully. Then he came to my canoe sterned boat, looked at it for ten seconds and said, "Humph" and went on. It was clear to anybody, especially me, in the room that Dick didn't think much of my double ender.

 

So at the Nap Show I hailed Dick through the crowd and went over to say hello. As I recall the moment the first thing he said was, "You were right!" I beamed. I felt huge respect for Dick at that moment for having the balls to acknowledge my design effort. I don't think any other competing designer would have had more to say other than another "Humph." But it was a long time ago so I may have slowly morphed the reality of the moment into what I wanted to see. I'll never know. History is like that.

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Whow !

 

1)A shortwhile out of SA and the thread is booming ! not too good for early morning work ;)

 

2)Many thanks for the pics and docs Catherine.

 

3)first outing of the "Equinoxe" sailing apparel company which one of the crews was ready to launch big scale.

 

4)................................ hope Laser1 gets to see it ;)

Here is a 43 page PDF book of yachts build bij Frans Maas in Breskens Netherlands. There are some 10 Dick Carter designs in it.

 

1) Fantastic ..... mods please turn this thread into NSFW ;)

2) Hi Catherine

3) I still have mine - the full set top and bottom of the original Equinoxe blue/inside white under layer (showing my age now) :rolleyes:

4) Sure !!! all built 45 yards from my bedroom window when I was just a wee nipper.

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Does anybody think Gary Mull may have drawn inspiration from Red Rooster when he drew Improbable or is it just a styling similarity?

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Jon:

RED ROOSTER and IMPROBABLE have a lot in common aesthetically. I'm sure the actual hulls shapes are quite different. Both great looking boats.

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Thanks for that Catherine. Keep'em coming.

I'll try! Here's Rabbit II during an inshore race at Cowes Week in 1967. The photo was taken by the inimitable Eileen Ramsay. Dad is at the helm and my Mom and I are aft of him. I distinctly remember drawing the Z signal flag with crayons on paper at the navigator's desk below deck. It was taped to the backstay. Rabbit II was my Dad's favorite boat.

 

Racing at the Admirals Cup with the family aboard! :)

 

Does anybody else think it was better then?

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Whow !

A shortwhile out of SA and the thread is booming ! not too good for early morning work ;)

 

Many thanks for the pics and docs Catherine.

I particularly like the Rabbit II pic, sailing with the kids certainly added to your father's image this side of the Atlantic.

This remembers me of a very good article, in a French mag of the time, about a cruise on Red Rooster in the Golfe du Morbihan.I'll try to fetch it for you, in the attic, but it may take days.

 

For now, here is a pic I grabbed on the net sometime ago, which shows your father in French AC uniform !

Smoking in the forefront is Baron Rothschild, the bald-headed guy is Eric Tabarly's father "Babar", next to him is Gerard Petipas ET's right hand man and manager (who if memory serves me well was Gitana V project manager).

Those uniforms were the first outing of the "Equinoxe" sailing apparel company which one of the crews was ready to launch big scale.

 

Thanks too to Sy Sunday for that little gem, hope Laser1 gets to see it ;)

Salut moody frog!

 

Interesting what you said about sailing with the kids adding to my Dad's image. One of his major design objectives was to make racing boats that were also sea-kindly, enjoyable for cruising "avec la famille". After the Fastnet Races in 1965, '67 and '69, my Dad, Mom, and us kids (up to 4 by 1969) would have "un petit vacancies" aboard Rabbit, Rabbit II and Red Rooster, respectively. And yes after Red Rooster won the Fastnet, my Dad, Mom, four kids, a baby-sitter and my Dad's crewmate and friend from the Cape, Sandy Weld, went on a relaxed cruise in the beautiful Golfe du Morbihan. 4 adults and 4 kids on the Rooster - we had a blast and the adults got to unwind. I have some snapshots from that trip but don't know how interesting they would be to others.

 

Is this the article you were referring to:

DickCarter_article_Unejournee_RedRooster_1969.pdf

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For now, here is a pic I grabbed on the net sometime ago, which shows your father in French AC uniform !

Smoking in the forefront is Baron Rothschild, the bald-headed guy is Eric Tabarly's father "Babar", next to him is Gerard Petipas ET's right hand man and manager (who if memory serves me well was Gitana V project manager).

Those uniforms were the first outing of the "Equinoxe" sailing apparel company which one of the crews was ready to launch big scale.

HaHa! that photo is priceless! Thanks so much for posting it! I will email that today to my Dad and my brothers and sisters!

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Great to see Catherine here. The thread has really come to life.

 

Note that I was really pissed off at the title the magazine gave my article on Dick. "Dick Carter: a retrospective" would have been more to my liking. The article was never intended to be about me. I need to read it again to see what otrher apologies are required at this date. I never kept a copy. Never thought it would be important or valuable. Glad Catherine had the sense to track it down and save it.

 

OK, I went back and read my article on Dick. It's pretty damn good. I'm impressed with the job I did. But I had affection for the subject and for anyone at all interested in the history of ocean racing designs Dick's work is very important.

 

I think one of my most vivid memories of Dick came a few years after I left "the tower". I was at the Nap Show with the Valiant group and I ran into Dick. I'll set the stage:

 

While at the tower Dick had asked Yves-Marie, Chuck, Mark and me to come up with an idea for a 38' cruising boat. He wanted four independant proposals for the concept. I had been starting on the Valiant 40 design at home so I drew for a Dick a 38' version of the double ended Valiant. We got together one afternoon and all presented our proposals. Yves-Marie Chuck and Mark had very Carteresque preliminary sketches and Dick looked them over one by one very carefully. Then he came to my canoe sterned boat, looked at it for ten seconds and said, "Humph" and went on. It was clear to anybody, especially me, in the room that Dick didn't think much of my double ender.

 

So at the Nap Show I hailed Dick through the crowd and went over to say hello. As I recall the moment the first thing he said was, "You were right!" I beamed. I felt huge respect for Dick at that moment for having the balls to acknowledge my design effort. I don't think any other competing designer would have had more to say other than another "Humph." But it was a long time ago so I may have slowly morphed the reality of the moment into what I wanted to see. I'll never know. History is like that.

Hello again Bob! I think your recollection about you and my Dad at the Nap show is accurate. That's absolutely 100% something that he would say and do. I can 'hear' him saying it.

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Thanks for that Catherine. Keep'em coming.

I'll try! Here's Rabbit II during an inshore race at Cowes Week in 1967. The photo was taken by the inimitable Eileen Ramsay. Dad is at the helm and my Mom and I are aft of him. I distinctly remember drawing the Z signal flag with crayons on paper at the navigator's desk below deck. It was taped to the backstay. Rabbit II was my Dad's favorite boat.

 

Racing at the Admirals Cup with the family aboard! :)

 

Does anybody else think it was better then?

 

No kidding! I've always wondered whether I can claim that I "crewed" during the 1967 Admiral's Cup! Does making a primitive- and wonky-looking paper signal flag count?!!

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Absolutely. If you were onboard and made a contribution to the boat, you were crew. ;)

 

Sounds like you had a better than average childhood, to say the least.

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One of his major design objectives was to make racing boats that were also sea-kindly, enjoyable for cruising "avec la famille"

 

And he made that objective a reality. Inbetween Fastnets and the rest of the RORC calendar my parents raised 4 kids on a Tina. It was a bit wet at times on the blue submarine ;)

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Ym du have any drawings of this cute boat for a half hull ?

Only the sections of Noryema, designed for Ron Amey who had a long stream of successful racers.

I'll see what I can do when back from Europe.

PS: Too many really good boats, but Noryema is also a beautiful one.

already got sections from you, any transversal lines ???

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A photo of one of my Dad's custom designs, Christine. The guy who commissioned the design built Christine himself over the course of 4 years. But by then her design was no longer as cutting-edge as Dad had originally intended. And since he never saw or sailed Christine he had no idea what mods may have been made.

post-105390-0-22094600-1388717070_thumb.jpg

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French interesting article with Richard Ed Carter interview : http://www.demi-coques.fr/articlevoile/tina

1) chorus1 - Merci de l'avoir publié! I liked seeing that wonderful Franz Maas spec sheet for Tina. My Dad's folder of Tina photos (which I brought home with me from his house this past Monday night) has many of the ones in that article, which I'll be happy to scan and post.

 

2) laser 1 - any pix of you and your family aboard your blue Tina?

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Hi, I have just come across a boat that is advertised as a Carter 39, She looks a lovely boat, same owner for 21 years and really nicely cared for cosmetically.

 

I haven't had a look yet (she is 5000 odd kilometres from me) but I was hoping the folks here could help me out from there vast knowledge of Dick Carters designs.

 

  1. Is she a Carter 39?
  2. Can she be sailed single handed by an experienced sailor in comfortable conditions?
  3. What are the "issues" with this design?
  4. Are these boats cruiseable?

I am loving the look of this boat but know little about the background of the design. Any info would be fantastic!

Thanks in advance.

 

J

 

 

 

http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=15851230&Silo=Stock&Vertical=Boat&Ridx=9&eapi=2

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@ Bob the Builder123,

 

Look at this link about someone who cruises a Carter 39 racer, also built by Olympic Yachts. The hull etc are the same so should help.

His Captain's Logs are most entertaining.

 

http://moleoba.com/About_The_Boat.htm

 

cheers - Michael

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Please correct me if I am wrong. I recall the Carter 39 J&B won the "old boat" division SORC 1976.

I raced Newport/Bermuda aboard the next summer. Morty owned, or kept J&B at the world's fair marina, NYC. We delivered back from Bermuda, and arrived in NY harbor on July 4 1976, for the big event. Dropped off a crew member on Manhattan prior to checking in with immigration, and was met at the dock by the owner, and the coast guard, when we arrived at the marina. Oops!

They acted like we were going to be arrested... and then smiles.

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@ Catherine,

 

My pet "hobby" is getting information on Ydra the one ton yacht your Father designed in 1972.

I f you have any notes etc on this yacht to post here it would be most welcome.

I have also been trying to discover whether she is still afloat and sailing but always end up with a brick wall, although she is said to be in a marina in tuscany, italy.

 

rgds - Michael

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Whow !

A shortwhile out of SA and the thread is booming ! not too good for early morning work ;)

 

Many thanks for the pics and docs Catherine.

I particularly like the Rabbit II pic, sailing with the kids certainly added to your father's image this side of the Atlantic.

This remembers me of a very good article, in a French mag of the time, about a cruise on Red Rooster in the Golfe du Morbihan.I'll try to fetch it for you, in the attic, but it may take days.

 

For now, here is a pic I grabbed on the net sometime ago, which shows your father in French AC uniform !

Smoking in the forefront is Baron Rothschild, the bald-headed guy is Eric Tabarly's father "Babar", next to him is Gerard Petipas ET's right hand man and manager (who if memory serves me well was Gitana V project manager).

Those uniforms were the first outing of the "Equinoxe" sailing apparel company which one of the crews was ready to launch big scale.

 

Thanks too to Sy Sunday for that little gem, hope Laser1 gets to see it ;)

Salut moody frog!

 

Interesting what you said about sailing with the kids adding to my Dad's image. One of his major design objectives was to make racing boats that were also sea-kindly, enjoyable for cruising "avec la famille". After the Fastnet Races in 1965, '67 and '69, my Dad, Mom, and us kids (up to 4 by 1969) would have "un petit vacancies" aboard Rabbit, Rabbit II and Red Rooster, respectively. And yes after Red Rooster won the Fastnet, my Dad, Mom, four kids, a baby-sitter and my Dad's crewmate and friend from the Cape, Sandy Weld, went on a relaxed cruise in the beautiful Golfe du Morbihan. 4 adults and 4 kids on the Rooster - we had a blast and the adults got to unwind. I have some snapshots from that trip but don't know how interesting they would be to others.

 

Is this the article you were referring to:

 

 

Salut !

 

I remember that article and this is from the magazine I was referring to ! I'll still have a look this week-end as the coverage was huge !!

 

Besides the family aspect the late 60's were a time of change and your father being young with a young family + a hardcore racer proved a great attraction.

What a difference in looks with the then dominating (in France) N.A John Illingworth and owners who looked the same old and abdominous gentleman. (not talking about the owner asking to pull the spin down before reaching his bunk).

Your father associates in France were also young and pushy.

Young execs and execs-to-be could associate themselves much further with the offshore sailing.

 

On a more "sailing" note, the biggest point in that article, for me, had then been:

"It is not the genoa-sheet that matters most (to the skipper) but the "Cunningham-hole" set on the genoa luff roughly 60cm above deck. A line in it goes back to the tack fitting then to a purchase and winch located close to the helmsman. Dick Carter plays constantly with it, taking it in to move the draft back forward, letting it go as soon as the wind drops or a chop develops, one can nearly infinitely modify the sail shape. Let's add that, for that reason, Hood genoas are built on a textile and stretchy luff.

The mainsail, to the contrary, looks totally uninteresting to Carter. When broad reaching, I asked permission to tighten the leech-line, he looked at me with a soft smile and softly uttered " oh yes ... if that pleases you .."

 

With this article (and some others to be honest) we soon convinced a few individual owners to order from Hood a "stretch genoa" as we called them . Within 3 years most of the fleet was 100% with Hood.

So your father had left the loft but he still "sold" a lot of sails for them !!

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Chorus:

"transversal lines" would be sections.

Are you asking for buttocks and waterlines?

I do mistake bob, sry, meant longitudinal lines yes ;)

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2) laser 1 - any pix of you and your family aboard your blue Tina?

 

Cath,

 

I'll see if I can get my brother to go through the 5 ft of photo albums on the shelf at home

 

All this was pre this megapixel/digital malarky. :D

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I have a huge file of Carter stuff somewhere around here including old brochures. I'll keep my eye out for it and pass along what I can to Catherine.

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A photo of one of my Dad's custom designs, Christine.

 

Nice looking boat. Rudder looks a bit small, mind... ;)

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Fivestar - I'll ask my Dad bout Ydra. This week I brought home my father's folders of Tina and Rabbit photos. When I exchange them for folders of his later boats, I'll keep my eye peeled for Ydra.

 

Laser1 - ah yes...Photo excavation can be such fun (cough cough). Thank you for looking into this!

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Please correct me if I am wrong. I recall the Carter 39 J&B won the "old boat" division SORC 1976.

I raced Newport/Bermuda aboard the next summer. Morty owned, or kept J&B at the world's fair marina, NYC. We delivered back from Bermuda, and arrived in NY harbor on July 4 1976, for the big event. Dropped off a crew member on Manhattan prior to checking in with immigration, and was met at the dock by the owner, and the coast guard, when we arrived at the marina. Oops!

They acted like we were going to be arrested... and then smiles.

Funny, a Carter 39 is an "Old Boat" in 1976. I sailed against the DuMoulin's Blaze well into the 1980's and they were never easy to beat.

post-33230-0-07051300-1388779449.jpg

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Please correct me if I am wrong. I recall the Carter 39 J&B won the "old boat" division SORC 1976.

I raced Newport/Bermuda aboard the next summer. Morty owned, or kept J&B at the world's fair marina, NYC. We delivered back from Bermuda, and arrived in NY harbor on July 4 1976, for the big event. Dropped off a crew member on Manhattan prior to checking in with immigration, and was met at the dock by the owner, and the coast guard, when we arrived at the marina. Oops!

They acted like we were going to be arrested... and then smiles.

Funny, a Carter 39 is an "Old Boat" in 1976. I sailed against the DuMoulin's Blaze well into the 1980's and they were never easy to beat.

attachicon.gifBlaze.jpg

Well, the fleet was split in two, with the most current design/builds separated from the more "mature" vessels. Not sure of the exact criteria.

 

On another subject, I have a good friend who had a Carter design in Italy, about that same time, named "Juno". Sailed, and raced, with his young family, out of Genoa. He told me Mr. Carter had raced with him, in the Med. Spoke very well of Dick's abilities at the helm.

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In 1973 I thought YDRA was the coolest boat in the world.

FRIGATE was a fabulous looking boat.

 

I did a lot of racing on RABBIT the Carter 39 that came to Seattle. I think Dick campaigned it in the SORC before it came to Seattle. Unfortunately it was tied to a dock and left to rot. It was a fabulous boat and the source of much inspiration to me as I tried to design fast cruising boats. We won a lot of races in RABBIT.

 

What would really be fun on this thread would be to get Yves-Marie's retrospective on his time in the tower. Yves-Marie drew the lines to some of Dick's best boats.

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Isn't there a now much bigger Christine (~100 ft) in that neighbourhood, frequently posted on YW for sale?

 

I used to see CHRISTINE down in Newport Beach I think. It was a striking vessel.

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In 1973 I thought YDRA was the coolest boat in the world.

 

You were right. It's still a great looking design - those early 70's Carter bubble top decks were fabulously proportioned - long hood, short deck, just like the best looking cars.

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Isn't there a now much bigger Christine (~100 ft) in that neighbourhood, frequently posted on YW for sale?

 

I used to see CHRISTINE down in Newport Beach I think. It was a striking vessel.

80 ft, cold molded Christine lived in Marina del Rey. Beautiful Boat. I did not realize it was a Carter Design, it was always attributed to the owner/builder to my memory. Looking at this thread it is impressive how many beautiful boats across how many years Mr Carter has had a hand in designing. Even the more modern North American 40 that I had the pleasure of sailing upon and maintaining back in my youth some 30 years ago.

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A photo of one of my Dad's custom designs, Christine.

 

Nice looking boat. Rudder looks a bit small, mind... ;)

Rudder is turned and viewing on end from posterior, with partial skeg. you can see a little of root length along bottom of hull.

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A photo of Ydra en route to winning the 1973 One Ton Cup. Dad has more pix of her at his house which I'll scan.

 

Interesting article on the upcoming 2015 One Ton Cup Jubilee. Wai-aniwa will be competing. Where is Tina?

 

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2013/12/05/update-format-expanded-one-ton-cup-revisited-regatta/

post-105390-0-61809300-1388786757_thumb.jpg

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Many thanks Catherine for the article on Ydra.

Aggressive was I believe a one off Carter 42 two ton design built for the Canada Cup which if my memory serves me right she won in 1972?

rgds - Michael[fivestar]

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80 ft, cold molded Christine lived in Marina del Rey. Beautiful Boat. I did not realize it was a Carter Design, it was always attributed to the owner/builder to my memory. Looking at this thread it is impressive how many beautiful boats across how many years Mr Carter has had a hand in designing. Even the more modern North American 40 that I had the pleasure of sailing upon and maintaining back in my youth some 30 years ago.

 

I don't have any archives to dig through, but I recall Christine's design being attributed to the owner Fred Priess(?).

I think he started off with lines form a real NA, but modified them to the point that the NA said, "Please remove my name from this project," or something to that effect.

 

There were other odd things about this boat.

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Many thanks Catherine for the article on Ydra.

Aggressive was I believe a one off Carter 42 two ton design built for the Canada Cup which if my memory serves me right she won in 1972?

rgds - Michael[fivestar]

You're right! She was indeed a custom boat. Not sure when she won - will try to find out. Thanks for the correction!

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Else:

I recall the same thing about CHRISTINE. I originally heard it was owner designed. I was quite surprised when I heard Carter had drawn it. Dick sure never made any noise about it.

 

I pretty much lifted the midsection of the Carter design AIRMAIL for the Valiant 40. I admit it. I liked that section. I didn't trace it but the character is very close.

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vic carpenter built christine and said something similar about the design from a naval architect being modified by the owner

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This is a postcard of Red Rooster taken in Vannes, France, during my family's cruise in the Golfe du Morbihan right after the 1969 Admiral's Cup. I'm on deck ( in braids) with one of my younger sisters, along with family friend Sandy Weld and our baby sitter Debby. My Dad said that he was in the region a year later on business when he stopped in a small cafe with a postcard rack. He was astonished to see the postcard of Red Rooster, and promptly bought all the postcards!

Those pics were very usefull to redraw Red Rooster :)

Here is the epure :) Enjoy !

 

RED%20ROOSTERLast.jpg

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From the Norfolk Craig's List < http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/4271369444.html >:

 

Carter 33 Racing Sloop - $15000

 

00J0J_bRbd1TaOqqZ_600x450.jpg

 

33' Carter 3/4 Ton Sloop. One of 12 made by Scheel in Maine for 1975 World Cup IOR races and still competitive. Fast, stiff boat with split cockpit and racing rigging, 10 sails, repowered with new Perkins 30Hp diesel w/under 250 hours, Martec folding prop. 5 berths, 6' standing headroom, galley, head, nav station, a proper offshore racing yacht, not a stripped down shell. All standing and running rigging is heavier and more durable than a cruising boat. ...

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Dad bought (well ....acquired) Zeehaas in 1970. He came home that day with a box containing some 'high tech' B&G heron clocks. Short story is mum told him he was bonkers .....and the rest is history. She was built in GRP in Amsterdam and finished by Frans Maas. He sold her early 90's but 14 family summer holidays, 7 Fastnets, 15 North Sea races, 15 West Mersea-Ostends, 1981 Rorc Caribbean Race, 1990 Brent Walker Brighton-Cadiz, a cruise from Breskens to the Amazon and back via the carib 1985/6, and many many many more yearly local club & offshore regatta's. Having raised 4 kids on her and calculating that she had covered 100.000 miles in his ownership he wrote a book as a salute to a great design and a fantastic vessel.

 

Zeehaas2_zps136136bf.jpg

 

Zeehaas_0012_zpsb4087ae3.jpg

 

Zeehaas3_zps8e46ce65.jpg

 

Zeehaas_0022_zps530e653b.jpg

 

Zeehaas_zpsb5f1ac4a.jpg

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Two photos of Tina at Frans Maas' yard - 1966

Haha, I could say I remember that ........ but I was 3 year old :wacko:

 

Two questions though :

 

Tina seems to have a completely different rudder arrangement than the later one's

 

Also what truth is there in the myth that Dick ordered all moulds destroyed and prohibited from any more Tina's being built ?

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Here are 3 pics of most of the One Ton Cup fleet in Copenhagen, 1966. The fleet included seven designer-sailed boats: Tina, Robin (Ted Hood), Yeoman XIV (Peter Nicholson), Tikerak (Frans Maas), Aladdin (van de Stadt), Salome (Swanson), Goodwin (Draüe).

 

I was able to spot Tina (sail #2270) almost directly underneath the burgee of the Royal Danish Yacht Club in pic 1; and also in pic #2, where's she's the 3rd boat aft of the Hood boat (H1104).

Great pics !

They show pretty well where the sport was coming from and some of the boats certainly cannot be called racers (although they were)

 

I can already pick Yeoman XIV N° 124 and the (then) latest S&S design Clarionet N° 195.

Pretty nice windward and fully powered start by Y_M Tanton on Maryka N° 4172: see stem on previous pic and bow wave on that one.

Will try and see if I can identify the Belgian and Dutch boats.

 

Maryka was Illingworth and Primrose so that's an 8th designer and I think there was one or two others.

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er

 

 

Two photos of Tina at Frans Maas' yard - 1966

Haha, I could say I remember that ........ but I was 3 year old :wacko:

 

Two questions though :

 

Tina seems to have a completely different rudder arrangement than the later one's

 

Also what truth is there in the myth that Dick ordered all moulds destroyed and prohibited from any more Tina's being built ?

Would she be Zehaas at la Trinité sur Mer past year ? (Persephone)

post-50842-0-49963100-1388852945_thumb.jpg

post-50842-0-19240400-1388853315_thumb.jpg

post-50842-0-04203200-1388853408_thumb.jpg

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Catherine,

 

Made a trip to the attic and despite my magazines being pushed back in a corner ;) first magazine I opened, the one before what you have posted earlier, reports on the 1969 Admiral's Cup.

It is just an ode to Dick Carter.

 

Title is: Offshore 69, a season for Geniuses and billionaires.

Max Aitken and Serena Zaffagni are the billionaires, your father the Genius.

 

Soon you notice: " Red Rooster had such a powerful presence that one can wonder how other designers will dare design "classic" yachts next year"

 

Here is part 1, I had to downgrade the PDF to fit within this forum limits, so: if you do not have this article on file let me know,I can have supply better resolution pics and/or PDF

 

Will post part 2 & 3 tomorrow, they are still too big !

AC 69 part1.pdf

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This is a postcard of Red Rooster taken in Vannes, France, during my family's cruise in the Golfe du Morbihan right after the 1969 Admiral's Cup. I'm on deck ( in braids) with one of my younger sisters, along with family friend Sandy Weld and our baby sitter Debby. My Dad said that he was in the region a year later on business when he stopped in a small cafe with a postcard rack. He was astonished to see the postcard of Red Rooster, and promptly bought all the postcards!

Those pics were very usefull to redraw Red Rooster :)

Here is the epure :) Enjoy !

 

RED%20ROOSTERLast.jpg

 

Wow - what a pretty rendering of RR!! Thank you!

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Great pics !

They show pretty well where the sport was coming from and some of the boats certainly cannot be called racers (although they were)

 

I can already pick Yeoman XIV N° 124 and the (then) latest S&S design Clarionet N° 195.

Pretty nice windward and fully powered start by Y_M Tanton on Maryka N° 4172: see stem on previous pic and bow wave on that one.

Will try and see if I can identify the Belgian and Dutch boats.

 

Maryka was Illingworth and Primrose so that's an 8th designer and I think there was one or two others.

I was hoping someone could identify the boats. My father said that it was a very intense series and referred to the competition as "everyone who was anyone was there". Dad was at that point being dismissed as someone who got lucky with Rabbit and the '65 Fastnet. According to Sandy Weld's excellent book (the Leading Edge), when Tina was hauled out for a good scrubbing, an internationally famous designer was overheard to have said "Dick has himself a lemon" this time. But Sandy and my father had no way of knowing. They had actually sailed straight from launching Tina in Breskens to Copenhagen.

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Would she be Zehaas at la Trinité sur Mer past year ? (Persephone)

Chorus,

 

Yes, correct.

Laser1 - Terrific photos. I laughed when I saw all the towels drying out! Thanks for posting these. Next time I talk to Dad I'll ask him about the Tina moulds.

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Catherine,

 

Made a trip to the attic and despite my magazines being pushed back in a corner ;) first magazine I opened, the one before what you have posted earlier, reports on the 1969 Admiral's Cup.

It is just an ode to Dick Carter.

 

Title is: Offshore 69, a season for Geniuses and billionaires.

Max Aitken and Serena Zaffagni are the billionaires, your father the Genius.

 

Soon you notice: " Red Rooster had such a powerful presence that one can wonder how other designers will dare design "classic" yachts next year"

 

Here is part 1, I had to downgrade the PDF to fit within this forum limits, so: if you do not have this article on file let me know,I can have supply better resolution pics and/or PDF

 

Will post part 2 & 3 tomorrow, they are still too big !

Merci de l'avoir publié! I am dashing out now and only had time to skim it but will read it later in depth. We don't have this article on file and I know both my Dad and I would love a higher res copy. It's hard getting round the 1 MB posting limit.

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Interesting reading about the philosophy behind Tina. Sounds very much like what Peterson did with Ganbare a decade later - small boat with a big rig and the emphasis on lighter winds.

 

It would appear to be the correct way to go. :D

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Anybody know what became of that Christine? The 100' successor has been on the market for a LONG time - now asking around $500K.

 

You have to hand it to Fred - that has to be one of the record holders for a home built. Made his own coffee grinders and welded up his own mast fercrissakes.

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This isn't to take away from the ingenuity of DIY builders, but what irks my father about Christine is that, in his opinion, she could have been a serious racing machine if she had been built by a yard and also if she had been built in a few months, as opposed to 4 years, in order to maximize the competitiveness of her new design.

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This isn't to take away from the ingenuity of DIY builders, but what irks my father about Christine is that, in his opinion, she could have been a serious racing machine if she had been built by a yard and also if she had been built in a few months, as opposed to 4 years, in order to maximize the competitiveness of her new design.

Christine was a unique situation. (insert appropriate emoticon!)

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Anybody know what became of that Christine? The 100' successor has been on the market for a LONG time - now asking around $500K.

 

You have to hand it to Fred - that has to be one of the record holders for a home built. Made his own coffee grinders and welded up his own mast fercrissakes.

I believe she sunk somewhere near panama on her delivery to the med for the new owner. Christine was a staple of the Wednesday beer cans until she was banned for putting up too big of a wake inside the harbor spilling the grey poupon of some of the main channel residents!

I remember driving by the car lot when she was being built behind a billboard wondering how they were going to get it to the water.

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chorus1 and laser1: so Zeehaas (now Persephone) is ex-Esprit de Rueil?

 

Great photo by Beken of Esprit de Rueil in 1967:

attachicon.gifDickCarter_Tina_design_EspritdeRueil_Vanek_1967.jpg

No Catherine :), Esprit de rueil is not Zeehaas, my bad on the pic....

I think Esprit de Rueil has been the most talentuous Tina...after tina obviously:)

By the way we try to list the name and owner of all the tina still sailing on my website, because of NZL One Ton Cup 2015 project ! link : http://www.demi-coques.fr/onetonneretonetoncup

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Chorus

 

Thanks for the link, but I thought 45 South was a 1/4 quarter tonner sailed by Greame Woodrooffe and Roy Dickson in 1975.

 

Also there was a Kishmul SS37 timber built in NZ, for Dick Tapper.

 

 

Good work in collating the list.

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chorus1 and laser1: so Zeehaas (now Persephone) is ex-Esprit de Rueil?

 

Great photo by Beken of Esprit de Rueil in 1967:

attachicon.gifDickCarter_Tina_design_EspritdeRueil_Vanek_1967.jpg

No Catherine :), Esprit de rueil is not Zeehaas, my bad on the pic....

I think Esprit de Rueil has been the most talentuous Tina...after tina obviously:)

By the way we try to list the name and owner of all the tina still sailing on my website, because of NZL One Ton Cup 2015 project ! link : http://www.demi-coques.fr/onetonneretonetoncup

 

 

Esprit de Rueil is alive, restored and well: she was for sale a few months ago.

 

As said earlier in the thread Tinas have been hype in France in recent years, where restored boats fetch 80-90,000 euros.

 

If this is of any interest for you Catherine.

This broker http://www.yachts-classiques.com/

specialized in Tinas.

You could also get further news at this yacht-club: http://www.atlantic-yachtclub.com/

The founding commodore owns a Tina "Bilou-Belle" and certainly knows most french Tinas and their history.

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chorus1 and laser1: so Zeehaas (now Persephone) is ex-Esprit de Rueil?

Cath,

 

No, Zeehaas was built for a Mr. Albert Goudriaan in 1968 as 'Gazela' in GRP. Reason she was built in Amsterdam was because Frans Maas did not do GRP at that time.

 

Do you know if your father is still in contact with Frans Maas? Frans has retired from the yard for quite a few years now - in fact the yard does not exist anymore, the buildings do, but are now a refit & maintenance outfit. I suspect that Frans is not a keyboard warrior like us, but he would be able to make an invaluable contribution to this story.

 

I know Frans very well so I might be able to tempt him to put a few things on paper.

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Catherine,

 

Made a trip to the attic and despite my magazines being pushed back in a corner ;) first magazine I opened, the one before what you have posted earlier, reports on the 1969 Admiral's Cup.

It is just an ode to Dick Carter.

 

Title is: Offshore 69, a season for Geniuses and billionaires.

Max Aitken and Serena Zaffagni are the billionaires, your father the Genius.

 

Soon you notice: " Red Rooster had such a powerful presence that one can wonder how other designers will dare design "classic" yachts next year"

 

Here is part 1, I had to downgrade the PDF to fit within this forum limits, so: if you do not have this article on file let me know,I can have supply better resolution pics and/or PDF

 

Will post part 2 & 3 tomorrow, they are still too big !

Merci de l'avoir publié! I am dashing out now and only had time to skim it but will read it later in depth. We don't have this article on file and I know both my Dad and I would love a higher res copy. It's hard getting round the 1 MB posting limit.

 

 

:) So here is Part 2 in very low res and part 3 in the next post.

 

Re high res copies: sending you a PM separately on what might be a way to do it.

AC 69 part2b.pdf

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There was a steel one tonner Outrage built in Whangarei, NZ. I can remember racing against her in the early to mid 70's.

 

It had a double companion way.

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There was a steel one tonner Outrage built in Whangarei, NZ. I can remember racing against her in the early to mid 70's.

 

It had a double companion way.

Who's design ?

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chorus1 and laser1: so Zeehaas (now Persephone) is ex-Esprit de Rueil?

 

Great photo by Beken of Esprit de Rueil in 1967:

attachicon.gifDickCarter_Tina_design_EspritdeRueil_Vanek_1967.jpg

No Catherine :), Esprit de rueil is not Zeehaas, my bad on the pic....

I think Esprit de Rueil has been the most talentuous Tina...after tina obviously:)

By the way we try to list the name and owner of all the tina still sailing on my website, because of NZL One Ton Cup 2015 project ! link : http://www.demi-coques.fr/onetonneretonetoncup

 

Esprit de Rueil is alive, restored and well: she was for sale a few months ago.

 

As said earlier in the thread Tinas have been hype in France in recent years, where restored boats fetch 80-90,000 euros.

 

If this is of any interest for you Catherine.

This broker http://www.yachts-classiques.com/

specialized in Tinas.

You could also get further news at this yacht-club: http://www.atlantic-yachtclub.com/

The founding commodore owns a Tina "Bilou-Belle" and certainly knows most french Tinas and their history.

Tx Moody, but i already mailed to Loïk and never got any background... I knew the previous owner of Bilou at la Trinité s/Mer (Denis Malbrand) , and JM Viant who designed its the new tall mast :)

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Hello,

Last year I bought "Cavalier Seul", a Tina launched in 1968 with short roof and GRP hull. We have refurbished her and now she is ready to sail!!

I'm looking for informations about her, pictures and so on...

While looking for pics for the ongoing thread, I found that one of Cavalier Seul in a Breeze winning the first race she entered " Owers-CH1-Southsea" the third race of that year's RORC program starting on May 24th '69.

Ahead of second placed "Esprit de Rueil" !!

 

It seems that they loved heavy weather as you'll see from an other photograph (further down) shot at Marseilles.

post-6361-0-05963100-1388935513_thumb.jpg

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Just looked at the '68 and '69 issues of one single magazine: "Cahiers du Yachting".

 

Carter yachts are all over (besides the AC report above).

 

Here are 2 pics of Noryema ready to be launched in front of the Maas Yard.

 

re Laser1's post here above, it is interesting to note that Gebr.Maas, for that season, launched:

"Scaldis" light displ Maas Design, "Prospect of Whitby" S&S, "Robin" Ted Hood, "Red Rooster" and "Noryema" Carter, all in steel and "Coriolan" Carter in sandwich. That's close to 300 ft of one-offs !!

Healthy times for Ocean Racing

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post-6361-0-33036300-1388936473_thumb.jpg

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Marseilles Week Easter '69.

Usual heavy weather in the bay.

 

8 one-tonners in the class, 5 of which were Tinas.

"Helisara", "Cavalier Seul" and "Variag" in GRP "Esprit de Rueil" and "Krishna" in steel.

"Esprit" wins the week and "Cavalier Seul" the windiest race Under two boomed genoas (see below)

 

"Esprit"'s pic is not as spectacular but this is André Viant staring at the photographer from the shrouds.

post-6361-0-44614300-1388937869_thumb.jpg

post-6361-0-10540500-1388937896_thumb.jpg

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