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what's the story?

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So we received this picture a close look elicited a "wtf" response. We would love to know the story with this one. Can ya tell it?

what is the story.jpg

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Looks like it might be hard to fit in some slips and may piss off the boat owner in the next slip. At least it has a Nascar wing at the back for down force.

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Is it French? Does it have a daggerboard? Maybe YMT has a guess.

 

Aside from sorting out the CoG and foil-created forces, there is the interesting issue of rotational inertia. With all that weight far from the center of rotation, she should have great resistance to heeling in a gust.

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With all that weight far from the center of rotation, she should have great resistance to heeling in a gust.

 

..... and great resistance coming back from it too!

 

The physics of it make no sense.

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Can't remember what it's called, but they're canting keels.

 

For upwind you cant one to windward and leave one in the middle for lateral resitance.

For downwind power your can cant both

For shallow draft (and sitting on the hard it seems) you cant them in oposite directions.

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Well if you don't know, then I'm not going to tell you.

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Wow, gotta love Google's translation service:

 

***********************

 

REDUCE DRAG, INCREASE POWER

 

A plan planing hull shape and especially Two Bowling Commuters!!

 

He had to think, Martin DEFLINE architect has done, we have developed the Imagine 53.

 

Two bowling pendulum, no drift, therefore only two maneuvers,

 

But two movable appendages still has to manage:

 

Not at all maneuvers pins are fully automated and optimized performance of the boat.

 

***********************

 

I don't know about you, but I don't know if I want Two Bowling Commuters on my boat.

 

Sure sounds like there is a bowling alley on board.

 

Those French, they sure are... different.

 

--Matt

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Can't remember what it's called, but they're canting keels.

 

For upwind you cant one to windward and leave one in the middle for lateral resitance.

For downwind power your can cant both

For shallow draft (and sitting on the hard it seems) you cant them in oposite directions.

 

I like the science behind the double canter. Do they have the ability to meet in the middle like a "V"?

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Dunno....

 

Looking at it closer, I think the version I saw was an earlier one where they were both on the centreline and could both cant either way. This looks like they're probably one way only.

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Is it French? Does it have a daggerboard? Maybe YMT has a guess.

 

Aside from sorting out the CoG and foil-created forces, there is the interesting issue of rotational inertia. With all that weight far from the center of rotation, she should have great resistance to heeling in a gust.

looks like it would reduce the pitching moment pretty substantially, though. maybe that's why it has a spoiler.

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So we received this picture a close look elicited a "wtf" response. We would love to know the story with this one. Can ya tell it?

Fantastic design for a cruiser in an area with big tides. Cant both keels out and you have a very stable platform to park in the mud. And you can even correct to get as close as possible to the vertical by canting more on one side... ;)

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So we received this picture a close look elicited a "wtf" response. We would love to know the story with this one. Can ya tell it?

Fantastic design for a cruiser in an area with big tides. Cant both keels out and you have a very stable platform to park in the mud. And you can even correct to get as close as possible to the vertical by canting more on one side... ;)

 

I thought Westerly had a patent on that concept...

 

http://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/photos_pageant_23.php

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Forget the keels. Why the f%$k does it have a spoiler?!?

 

G

 

 

Intergalactic travel.

 

(see Mr. Manko's vid for concept)

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Without speaking as to merits or disadvantages of it, the concept seems to be that when heeled moderately the windward keel is completely out of the water and therefore contributes zero drag, while the leeward keel can be vertical.

 

gite2.jpg

 

The righting moment will be as if the total weight were at the midpoint between the CG's of the two bulbs. How this might compare to a single canting keel mounted on the centerline, I have not tried to calculate.

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Looks like the ramp at Alameda air station. Maybe a new Mythbusters project

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Seems like it would be a disaster to tack. We spend quite a bit of effort to keep the weight out of the ends to reduce pitching. Putting weight out to the side increases the amount of rudder input required for a specific turning rate.

 

Would be fun on a tight starting line. Could even put extra bad crew (who forgot to bring the beer) on it for ballast.

 

Plus it's ugly as hell.

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Is it a trimaran in which the designer is confused about the relationship of density and WL length to function?

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Were you thinking of the Distancia 60?

 

cantingkeels-general.jpg

 

Yep, that's the one. Is this an evolution of that?

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The windward keel is lifted out of the water, reducing drag. I wonder if you could even get more righting moment out of the windward bulb when it's out of the water because it's not offset by it's buoyancy/displacement.

 

brilliant.jpg

 

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It is ugly, yes. But imagine the fun you could have as the leeward boat in a luffing match?

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Might be nice and stable at anchor with both keels splayed out like a stripper doing the splits.

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I am shocked, you call yourselves sailing anarchists? Thirty three replies on this thread and nobody has come up with the correct answer? Obviously this boat is designed for novice sailors and is equipped with... Training Keels! Jesus, those French sailors are crafty bastards!

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From the look of the tail fin, this may very well be Pontiac's forray into boat building. Happened shortly after finish the Fiero.

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It's an Imagine 53 by Defline. http://www.defline.com/gammes/serie/Im53/imagine_53.htm

 

I couldn't figure out what the spoiler was used for.

 

These are specs on why the boat uses this keel system.

http://www.defline.com/r&d/2QP.htm

 

 

This was translated from French to English...

 

Martin Defline, innovative architect, put into practice on this big ship a device to double pendulum keel which he patented the system in the early 2000s. The subtlety of the system is that you can determine the angle of the two appendages needs with efficiency that the inventor likes a highlight: maximum impact with the deposit, drag minimum... and he insists on the fact that the cumulative surface of two bowling is 20% greater than that of a keel and that in any event from a certain cottage (little importance given the location of the axis of rotation) the keel wind out completely out of the water! The other originalities of the sailboat are the aluminium used in its manufacture, type "alustar" says the architect: "20% higher in alu conventionnelt mechanical property and has allowed to reduce all the weight of the boiler, rigging carbon"", the automation of the tactics..." (Editor's Note: 28%, not 20%). Also the luxury of accommodations and the originality of their provision. We can't wait to try the first copy of this unique sailboat kind result of investment in projects which will have taken four years!

 

Do I win "What is it" schwag?

 

Hip

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On first sight I thought this to be Distancia 60. A lot of brainwork went into it, and it might have been successful if the complicated keel design would not have been. If you visit their website - start with the electric motors: http://distancia.de/Easy_Handling/easy_handling.html then you realize the good ideas.

 

Now to the Defline. Clever approach as well, lighter on weight and budget - if you see the Heol 7.4 and 11.4 - this is the way to go where RM 1200 etc. stopped.

 

I still keep my fingers crossed for all of them.

 

Knut

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I look at this and I think "Oh Crap. Now my boyfriend is going to want to build one." :)

Let me be the first to tell you to Fuck Off and show us your tits. We are waiting.

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Without speaking as to merits or disadvantages of it, the concept seems to be that when heeled moderately the windward keel is completely out of the water and therefore contributes zero drag, while the leeward keel can be vertical.

 

gite2.jpg

 

 

That will work just fine as long as they stay away from any of those 'wave' thingys.

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Must be a one-in-a-million chance of hitting a wave

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Loose the bulbs and put a huge-ass engine in it and you might get it up on the foils...

 

Wait! Is the the new crackgregor? :ph34r:

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of course it's French. Sailing would be quite boring without the French.

 

WOW someone finally applauding the Frenchs for something ;-)

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Without speaking as to merits or disadvantages of it, the concept seems to be that when heeled moderately the windward keel is completely out of the water and therefore contributes zero drag, while the leeward keel can be vertical.

 

gite2.jpg

 

The righting moment will be as if the total weight were at the midpoint between the CG's of the two bulbs. How this might compare to a single canting keel mounted on the centerline, I have not tried to calculate.

The owner's manual says: "When it's time to tack to port, signal your intention by heeling the boat."

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I'm sure I remember seeing a small french sportsboat once with a similar system... used block&tackle to lift the windward foil/bulb, and then dropped and locked the leeward in place... can't for the life of me find any details now mind!

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Without speaking as to merits or disadvantages of it, the concept seems to be that when heeled moderately the windward keel is completely out of the water and therefore contributes zero drag, while the leeward keel can be vertical.

 

gite2.jpg

 

The righting moment will be as if the total weight were at the midpoint between the CG's of the two bulbs. How this might compare to a single canting keel mounted on the centerline, I have not tried to calculate.

 

 

That will work just fine as long as they stay away from any of those 'wave' thingys.

What a great idea. this concept could really be tested in the 2.4mR format.

 

Any designers wanna take it one????? Bob...............are you there??????????????? I bet I can find a builder.

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I don't know what to say

 

so here's something else that's kinda fucked up

 

dominatrix.jpg

 

for some people anyway

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Doug Lord is showing interest in keelboats now!

 

exactly what i was thinking: someone had the guts to built one of doug's "designs" :P .

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I don't know what to say

 

so here's something else that's kinda fucked up

 

dominatrix.jpg

 

for some people anyway

 

wow, so sexy lady!!

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Wow, gotta love Google's translation service:

 

***********************

 

REDUCE DRAG, INCREASE POWER

 

A plan planing hull shape and especially Two Bowling Commuters!!

 

He had to think, Martin DEFLINE architect has done, we have developed the Imagine 53.

 

Two bowling pendulum, no drift, therefore only two maneuvers,

 

But two movable appendages still has to manage:

 

Not at all maneuvers pins are fully automated and optimized performance of the boat.

 

***********************

 

I don't know about you, but I don't know if I want Two Bowling Commuters on my boat.

 

Sure sounds like there is a bowling alley on board.

 

Those French, they sure are... different.

 

--Matt

 

 

hahahaha

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It evolved to walk on land.

 

fucking best post i've ever!

 

go the newbie

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This is a very clever design. Those lateral protruding keel-like projections are actually razor sharp foil cutters, meant to slice off the foils of nearby competitors. Someone also mentioned that the wing is NASCAR inspired. Indeed, borrowed from the 1969 Plymouth Superbird. The downward force obviates the need for an actual keel. Pure genius.

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I saw the frontpage, and i found the boat very familiar. Well , on my trip to the route du rhum last year , i saw it on the docks in la rochelle.

 

I looked at it for a while , and found it well made from my eyes... but the design was weird a fuck. Hull was way too high , but liked the sprit on it. Now that i saw the underwater appendix... i cant believe this boat. Seriously how do you get out of the docks with this? I tought deep draft were a pain sometime... but this is the weirdest shit i ever seen.

 

Here are my pictures

 

DSC_0274-vi.jpg

DSC_0275-vi.jpg

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Must be a one-in-a-million chance of hitting a wave

 

 

 

I know this has been posted elsewhere, it just seems to fit.

 

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Must be a one-in-a-million chance of hitting a wave

 

 

No, they're just sailing in RAK with some swiss guy...

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Its also a Diesel Electric sailboat.

 

Engine, electricity production:

 

Diesel Electric comprising:

 

A generator 19Kwe / 23Kwe at 1500 rpm at 50Hz / 60 Hz

 

4 stroke diesel engine, 4 cylinders, 2434cm3

 

Heat Exchanger C freshwater / saltwater

 

Alternator marinized

 

Three-phase voltage 230/400Volts

 

50Hz and 60Hz

 

Alternator 4 pole rotating field

 

Brushless excitation

 

Cocoon insulation, class H

 

Propulsion:

 

Synchronous electric motor with permanent magnets

 

Variable speed flux vector control.

 

Transmission:

 

ZF sail drive base

 

Bladed propeller VARIPROP (autofeather)

 

Electric circuit:

 

The electrical system is powered by 24 volt battery sealed gelled elements 2v over 12 years (lifetime of 18 years to 20 °). Capacity: 748Ah. Cuts batteries (+/-) located near the table to protect the circuit board.

 

The grid is made ​​by wiring sheathed. When passing the frames through these ducts passes pvc hulls to avoid all contacts with electrical cables and son elements of the structure of the boat.

 

It is the same for the circuit 220v and 380v.

 

All electrical circuits are protected by RCDs sensitivity tailored to each circuit.

 

Note: The electro-diesel has its own battery and alternator producing 24v to recharge its battery mode.

 

Electricity generation by the generator provides power distribution voltage 380/400V to power the electric motor, 220 volt for comfort on board and to recharge service batteries.

 

Taking a berth in the trunk of the helm station protected by circuit breaker.

 

80A charger

 

A converter pure sine 24VCC/230VAC 1500W

 

 

 

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So we received this picture a close look elicited a "wtf" response. We would love to know the story with this one. Can ya tell it?

 

I know. It is a run-on sentence.

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Not so sure it's all that bad actually. Should go to weather well with all that righting moment. Can't tell whether the keels are fixed or movable, but if they're fixed then you get lots of the benefit of a canter without the expense, complexity, reliability issues, or having to run an engine to cant it. Would make for a nice fast cruiser. But it's probably pig slow when you start slamming the airborn keel through waves. Probably tacks just fine with all that angular momentum, but would be easy to over-rotate. Be interesting to hear from someone who's actually sailed her.

 

But why take an innovative, slightly crazy idea and fuck it up with something as obviously dorky as that spoiler? Like, baked alaska is innovative and slightly crazy, but great, until garnished with a turd.

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Looks a whole lot like this AC boat electronics mount to me post-49651-074405500 1302886476_thumb.jpg..... doubtful that they would need downforce from a spoiler

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Looks a whole lot like this AC boat electronics mount to me post-49651-074405500 1302886476_thumb.jpg..... doubtful that they would need downforce from a spoiler

 

You just can't, without the spoiler...

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Not so sure it's all that bad actually. Should go to weather well with all that righting moment.

 

I don't think there's a unusual amount of righting moment with this design, Kenny. It may look like there would be because the one keel is sticking straight out to windward. But I believe the total righting moment would be the same if the bulbs were combined as one big bulb directly between the two existing bulbs. Which would make it fairly shallow, and therefore it would have less righting moment relative to the total ballast in a more conventional configuration.

 

You might get some advantage with a whole bunch of heel, from the one foil being deep and more directly downward.

 

I also think that having the other keel stick out the upwind side is dangerous, if only because other boats aren't used to it and might fail to avoid it.

 

However, one such not throw stone at innovations. Some work, some don't... they all look dumb at first. As long as somebody else buys the first one.

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Unless there's some really good work on the canting/ counter canting system, she's definately not a beater.

 

There is just too many things to go wrong there

 

 

Still it's a good example of out of the box kind of thinking that makes our sailing world go around.

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Looks a whole lot like this AC boat electronics mount to me post-49651-074405500 1302886476_thumb.jpg..... doubtful that they would need downforce from a spoiler

 

You just can't, without the spoiler...

 

I'll take Listing Mast's of Pun for $100, Alex.

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Posted · Hidden by kepp74, April 16, 2011 - oops
Hidden by kepp74, April 16, 2011 - oops

Without speaking as to merits or disadvantages of it, the concept seems to be that when heeled moderately the windward keel is completely out of the water and therefore contributes zero drag, while the leeward keel can be vertical.

 

gite2.jpg

 

 

That will work just fine as long as they stay away from any of those 'wave' thingys.

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They're headed in the right direction.

Now, they need to make the bulbs longer.

And extend them laterally. And fix them permanently in place.

And make them buoyant so you get righting moment from the leeward bulb.

And then get rid of all that really heavy and unreliable canting equipment.

And toss out most of the batteries.

Then shut off the friggin engine!

The result looks something like this:

 

368332713_SDII08_0248.jpg

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Wow, gotta love Google's translation service:

 

***********************

 

REDUCE DRAG, INCREASE POWER

 

A plan planing hull shape and especially Two Bowling Commuters!!

 

He had to think, Martin DEFLINE architect has done, we have developed the Imagine 53.

 

Two bowling pendulum, no drift, therefore only two maneuvers,

 

But two movable appendages still has to manage:

 

Not at all maneuvers pins are fully automated and optimized performance of the boat.

 

***********************

 

I don't know about you, but I don't know if I want Two Bowling Commuters on my boat.

 

Sure sounds like there is a bowling alley on board.

 

Those French, they sure are... different.

 

--Matt

 

Depends which babbling translator...

"...without equivalent"; they got that right.

A cruiser with two canting keels, runners, square-heah main and no COG to speak of.

 

 

"This ship edged daring, designed by Martin Defline, is equipped with two skittles trikes manipulated by hydraulic. A central computer manages their angulation in the light of the gîte, strength and angle of the wind. The pins can be raise of each side to reduce the firing of water to the approach of a anchorage shallow. This ship highly equipped is to our knowledge without equivalent".

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That's not a spoiler on the stern, its the mount for the flux capacitor.

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