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OffShore Sam

Philippe Kahn's new ride...

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Not a very accurate article on the front page. That boat is not an SC or GL 70, but is an Andrews 70 and is the old Magnitude that became Equation. I understand that Kahn and the boys took her to Dencho to put her back in surfing trim. Trust me, she is considerably quicker (and rates as such) than an a turboed SC 70 and all of the GL 70s which are not turboed. Not sure who fed the author of the article this crap "So we bought the old Equation in the Great Lakes and put her in the shed to make her into a boat that can have fair racing with all other 70's like Grand Illusion. Imagine 6 to 8 similarly performing classic sleds racing to Honolulu!"

Uh no, this boat will be gone. This boat at one time held the 24 hour record for miles in the Trans Pac of 353 miles. I think that happened in 1999 as Magnitude.

So unless Grand Illusion has done a ton of mods, and even then, this article is full of crap.

 

Aside from all that, I wish them luck. Cool boat and it will be missed on the lakes. It will also be cool to see new Equation TP 65.

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Not a very accurate article on the front page. That boat is not an SC or GL 70, but is an Andrews 70 and is the old Magnitude that became Equation. I understand that Kahn and the boys took her to Dencho to put her back in surfing trim. Trust me, she is considerably quicker (and rates as such) than an a turboed SC 70 and all of the GL 70s which are not turboed. Not sure who fed the author of the article this crap "So we bought the old Equation in the Great Lakes and put her in the shed to make her into a boat that can have fair racing with all other 70's like Grand Illusion. Imagine 6 to 8 similarly performing classic sleds racing to Honolulu!"

Uh no, this boat will be gone. This boat at one time held the 24 hour record for miles in the Trans Pac of 353 miles. I think that happened in 1999 as Magnitude.

So unless Grand Illusion has done a ton of mods, and even then, this article is full of crap.

 

Aside from all that, I wish them luck. Cool boat and it will be missed on the lakes. It will also be cool to see new Equation TP 65.

 

 

Well, that took less time than I expected!

 

 

It's going to be a sweet ride, though, no doubt about that.

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Yeah I was going to chime in that ain't no SC 70. Anyway, an interesting idea, but I'm scratching my head. I had heard about his and could not understand the rationale. I guess if you're just going downwind w/sym kites. Did they stay with the existing rig/sail-plan (over lapping jibs, inline spreader)?

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Didn't the Equation boys have a Santa Cruz 70 before the had the Andrews 68?

 

Also glad to to Bill bringin' it with the STP 65

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Stunning amount of misinformation in one paragraph. Someone seems to be attempting to convince himself that the project is worthwhile.

 

Even the "ULBD 70" sleds are now retro-fitted with asymmetrical kites.

 

The claim that this is anywhere near a "stock" sled is ridiculous.

 

That boat was built as a turbo sled, and remains such.

 

SA should do some fact checking before publishing nonsense like this....

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which STP 65?

 

Evolution Racing (ex: Rosebud)

 

Was still in the tent at NEB as of last Monday.

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which STP 65?

 

Evolution Racing (ex: Rosebud)

 

Was still in the tent at NEB as of last Monday.

thought there was huge damage to Rosebud from Med racing a year or so back.

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which STP 65?

 

Evolution Racing (ex: Rosebud)

 

Was still in the tent at NEB as of last Monday.

thought there was huge damage to Rosebud from Med racing a year or so back.

 

was hoping she'd be at Block again this year

(stitched shot accounts for bootstripe/sheer anomoly)

post-768-029620900 1304960249_thumb.jpg

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which STP 65?

 

Evolution Racing (ex: Rosebud)

 

Was still in the tent at NEB as of last Monday.

thought there was huge damage to Rosebud from Med racing a year or so back.

 

Correct. Malcolm was kind enough to make the following post a few months after the incident.

Over the past few years I have had the privilege of including the SA readers in a number of sailing adventures which I have been fortunate to be part of through Roger and Isobel Sturgeon viaRosebud Racing. It has been a fantastic ride covering three continents and multiple venues. I have been able to include SA readers in our biggest victories at Transpac, Newport – Bermuda, Antigua, Cowes Week, Key West, Rolex rating series (AUS), Solas Big boat Challenge, San Francisco Big Boat Series, Pineapple Cup, Block Island Race and of course Sydney to Hobart.

 

Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future there will be no more racing adventures to tell you about. During the Middle Sea Race I wrote in the SA forum about loosing our mast shortly after we rounded Stromboli. What I did not write about was that we also damaged our hull in the steep sea state. Even though the damaged area is quite small, when it is combined with the damage totals to the mast and sails, it has been determined that it would be best to sell the STP 65 Rosebud.

 

Thank you to all the SA readers that have followed the Rosebud Racing regatta tour. It has been one heck of a ride. I hope that soon there will be a new racing adventure that I can write about on the SA forums.

 

Thank You

Malcolm

 

The damage was not terminal or prohibitively expensive to repair because the boat was then purchased, got a new mast and was presumably repaired (I'm not familiar with this portion of the boats history and this is what I've pieced together so if anyone is willing to chime in with better details then that would be great) by Ray Roberts from down under who initially had some plans of bringing it down there to do Hobart and Hammo. He did the IRC portion of NYYC Race Week in 2010 where it finished 3rd to Numbers & Rambler and then nothing more. I don't know what transpired afterwards but It spent the winter sitting in heated storage at NEB with the keel off and I guess that now Bill from Equation decided that it would be (understandably) an awesome boat for the Great Lakes and the growing IRC circuit there there.

Edit: picture of the damage below

 

JTDfA.jpg

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good to see that somebody is getting RB back on her feet....they did kick ass with her!

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Didn't the Equation boys have a Santa Cruz 70 before the had the Andrews 68?

 

Also glad to to Bill bringin' it with the STP 65

 

 

Yes, the '70' that preceded the Andrews was an SC/GL 70. She is now in Europe tricked out for short handed sailing...

Shame.

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So the Andrews 68 never had a non turbo rig. So will they be chopping the top off her rig? Seems a fools errand to put her into slow mode, I guess you can do what ever you want when you have more money than god.

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So the Andrews 68 never had a non turbo rig. So will they be chopping the top off her rig? Seems a fools errand to put her into slow mode, I guess you can do what ever you want when you have more money than god.

 

No no, I don't think anything in the 'article' is accurate. My understanding is that she is still all turboed up. In fact, possibly more than she was as Equation... Magnitude was actually more boned up than Equation as apparently, the huge turbo pole on Magnitude was not something that Bill liked. Under Equation a sprint was added. I cannot imagne that she has taken anything out of the rig. Just the oppsite I would suspect.

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I remember when they first got the boat. I think it was not the pole that was the issue but more the undoing of the forestay to gybe which didn't win any fans. It would be good to see the boat fly spins off that massive pole again.

 

Have to admit sprits are pretty boring compared to the days of uber oversize poles.

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I remember when they first got the boat. I think it was not the pole that was the issue but more the undoing of the forestay to gybe which didn't win any fans. It would be good to see the boat fly spins off that massive pole again.

 

Have to admit sprits are pretty boring compared to the days of uber oversize poles.

 

 

I remember seeing the Magnitude boys gybe that pole... Mother of God that was good trick. Some people bitched about Bill's decision to do away with it, but I always understood. It was a process.

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I expect loosing that huge rating hit didn't suck too much either.

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So the Andrews 68 never had a non turbo rig. So will they be chopping the top off her rig? Seems a fools errand to put her into slow mode, I guess you can do what ever you want when you have more money than god.

 

No no, I don't think anything in the 'article' is accurate. My understanding is that she is still all turboed up. In fact, possibly more than she was as Equation... Magnitude was actually more boned up than Equation as apparently, the huge turbo pole on Magnitude was not something that Bill liked. Under Equation a sprint was added. I cannot imagne that she has taken anything out of the rig. Just the oppsite I would suspect.

 

What is a "sprint"?

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So the Andrews 68 never had a non turbo rig. So will they be chopping the top off her rig? Seems a fools errand to put her into slow mode, I guess you can do what ever you want when you have more money than god.

 

No no, I don't think anything in the 'article' is accurate. My understanding is that she is still all turboed up. In fact, possibly more than she was as Equation... Magnitude was actually more boned up than Equation as apparently, the huge turbo pole on Magnitude was not something that Bill liked. Under Equation a sprint was added. I cannot imagne that she has taken anything out of the rig. Just the oppsite I would suspect.

 

What is a "sprint"?

 

A short race where speed and power are of far more importance than endurance.

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So the Andrews 68 never had a non turbo rig. So will they be chopping the top off her rig? Seems a fools errand to put her into slow mode, I guess you can do what ever you want when you have more money than god.

 

No no, I don't think anything in the 'article' is accurate. My understanding is that she is still all turboed up. In fact, possibly more than she was as Equation... Magnitude was actually more boned up than Equation as apparently, the huge turbo pole on Magnitude was not something that Bill liked. Under Equation a sprint was added. I cannot imagne that she has taken anything out of the rig. Just the oppsite I would suspect.

 

What is a "sprint"?

 

A short race where speed and power are of far more importance than endurance.

 

Well, OK.

 

Now, how do you add that to a boat?

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Just spoke with Phillipe, to find out about any innovations or upgrades to the boat that might be newsworthy, and to see if there were any errors that he'd like to correct in the piece, he said, "No innovations. It's truly back to the future. Simple and classical. Like a Moore 24."

 

I've got a whole neat piece on Philippe, that I'll submit to Ed sometime.

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Just spoke with Phillipe... to see if there were any errors that he'd like to correct in the piece

 

I gotta believe he knows whether he bought a SC-70 or an Andrews-68?

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Just spoke with Phillipe... to see if there were any errors that he'd like to correct in the piece

 

I gotta believe he knows whether he bought a SC-70 or an Andrews-68?

 

 

With the amount and caliber of boats he's bought in the past....yeah, I'd say he knows the difference. He should anyway, and the people on his program should definitely know.

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So the Andrews 68 never had a non turbo rig. So will they be chopping the top off her rig? Seems a fools errand to put her into slow mode, I guess you can do what ever you want when you have more money than god.

 

No no, I don't think anything in the 'article' is accurate. My understanding is that she is still all turboed up. In fact, possibly more than she was as Equation... Magnitude was actually more boned up than Equation as apparently, the huge turbo pole on Magnitude was not something that Bill liked. Under Equation a sprint was added. I cannot imagne that she has taken anything out of the rig. Just the oppsite I would suspect.

 

What is a "sprint"?

 

A short race where speed and power are of far more importance than endurance.

 

Well, OK.

 

Now, how do you add that to a boat?

 

 

OK, I'll bite, ...BOW SPRINT and just tell your boat yard or in Bill's case, Stu, and you are set...

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It appears that the communication process has broken down here (MCV).

 

So, you want to add a short race to the bow? Why?

 

WTF?

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Didn't the Equation boys have a Santa Cruz 70 before the had the Andrews 68?

 

Also glad to to Bill bringin' it with the STP 65

 

 

Yes, the '70' that preceded the Andrews was an SC/GL 70. She is now in Europe tricked out for short handed sailing...

Shame.

 

 

The first Equation 70 was the former Orient Express SC 70 built in 1993.

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I remember when they first got the boat. I think it was not the pole that was the issue but more the undoing of the forestay to gybe which didn't win any fans. It would be good to see the boat fly spins off that massive pole again.

 

Have to admit sprits are pretty boring compared to the days of uber oversize poles.

 

 

I remember seeing the Magnitude boys gybe that pole... Mother of God that was good trick. Some people bitched about Bill's decision to do away with it, but I always understood. It was a process.

 

 

 

Process doesn't even begin to describe it - I had the pleasure of unpinning the headstay during gybes with Bill, Stu and the boys when they first got the boat. The pole the Magnitude boys had set up went from the headstay to the front edge of the cockpit and gybing was as described - ease the pole to the headstay, take up on the leeward guy to pin the headstay on centreline, and then gybe the a-sail like a sprit boat. Headstay unpinned, lifted over the pole, and re-pinned. ease the leeward afterguy, and the weather afterguy could be squared.

 

Equation got rid of the big pole for a couple of reasons, but one of the big ones was that the rating was a real killer - you could come out ahead of the rating if you were using the kite in a predominantly downwind race, but racing on the Great Lakes the boat had to be a bit more of an all rounder than a sled.

 

The course racing was a bit of a bun-fight too - OK if your next mark is a couple hundred miles off, but a 5 or 10 minute reach didn't leave a whole lot of room for error. Foam the runway, we're coming in hot...

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It appears that the communication process has broken down here (MCV).

 

So, you want to add a short race to the bow? Why?

 

WTF?

 

I think the inference was that they would be getting a pygmy for a bowman.

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It appears that the communication process has broken down here (MCV).

 

So, you want to add a short race to the bow? Why?

 

WTF?

 

I think the inference was that they would be getting a pygmy for a bowman.

 

Perhaps, but I'm not sure.

 

Maybe the pygmy was a ........ sprinter?

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Launched the boat this morning in long beach, stepped the rig this afternoon in marina del rey it has been a long day. yes it is infact an Andrews 70 took 12+ feet off the rig added a smaller keel, will run A-kites like most optimized ULDB's on a pole.We should have a fun and comfortable ride to Hawaii.

PL.

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Disappointing you cut the rig down. Now what else can you use the boat for other than a fun ride to Hawaii? I think you will have killed the resale value of the barco.

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We will sail it in Santa Cruz for "FUN" on wensday night races and then whatever else PK wants or has the time for,

PS. it is normaly @15 to 25+KTS sailing around SC.

PL.

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Disappointing you cut the rig down. Now what else can you use the boat for other than a fun ride to Hawaii? I think you will have killed the resale value of the barco.

I don't think resale value was a consideration on a purchase this small(relative)

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Disappointing you cut the rig down. Now what else can you use the boat for other than a fun ride to Hawaii? I think you will have killed the resale value of the barco.

I don't think resale value was a consideration on a purchase this small(relative)

 

 

Ding ding. We have a winner.

 

PK bought Art Forms and turbo'd her up specifically to do the Hawaii races in short handed format. When he acheived everything he wanted to with that boat, he donated her. He is now applying the same logic to the Andrews 70, turning her into the boat that will work for what he wants to accomplish next. He has got the resources to chase a specific vision, and good on him for doing that. I really respect how the Pegasus program has evolved over time, and am impressed that he has been able to find ways to enjoy different corners of this sport.

 

I for one will be watching the progress on the Andrews 70 and hope he has a blast with it.

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which STP 65?

 

Evolution Racing (ex: Rosebud)

 

Was still in the tent at NEB as of last Monday.

thought there was huge damage to Rosebud from Med racing a year or so back.

 

True...until Ray Roberts of Austral/Asian dk46/Cookson50/TP52 fame got his hands on it, repaired it and then flipped it.

 

Disappointed we didn't get to see Ray & Co put it through it's paces more thoroughly.

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

The fact of the matter is you do not have to explain yourself to any of the goof balls here. The fact that you did earns you a great deal more respect from me (not that it matters). We all wish we had the resources to follow through with the our own projects that bounce aroundin our heads. Good luck with yours, I'll be cheering for you.

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Level rule racing is how those Sleds started their lives in the late 70's, IOR. The differences were slight and the racing very close to OD.

 

Cool to see you seeing the light and igniting a fire of OD.

 

I have always thought that surfing Down waves is more fun in sleds than planning across them, which is what pole back surfing in those boats were all about.

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

Best of luck and have fun! I think most anyone here would love to be in a position to do the same--good on you!

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

The fact of the matter is you do not have to explain yourself to any of the goof balls here. The fact that you did earns you a great deal more respect from me (not that it matters). We all wish we had the resources to follow through with the our own projects that bounce aroundin our heads. Good luck with yours, I'll be cheering for you.

 

Amen, brother. PK - thanks for the post. Hope you have a great time with the new ride.

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Thanks guys. I think that this will be a great boat, just like Moore 24s are great boats. I agree it's much more fun to surf to Hawaii! Hawaii and Surf belong together!

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Process doesn't even begin to describe it - I had the pleasure of unpinning the headstay during gybes with Bill, Stu and the boys when they first got the boat. The pole the Magnitude boys had set up went from the headstay to the front edge of the cockpit and gybing was as described - ease the pole to the headstay, take up on the leeward guy to pin the headstay on centreline, and then gybe the a-sail like a sprit boat. Headstay unpinned, lifted over the pole, and re-pinned. ease the leeward afterguy, and the weather afterguy could be squared.

Unpin the head stay? Holy Cow Batman! Brave. I helped with a jibe or two on an Andrews 68 Victoria in Long Beach when that boat rated 70. I'm pretty sure we didn't consider the headstay running gear.

 

Bit of a pig around the buoys though.

 

 

Koukel

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Thanks guys. I think that this will be a great boat, just like Moore 24s are great boats. I agree it's much more fun to surf to Hawaii! Hawaii and Surf belong together!

 

Especially between the West end of Molokai and the Buoy at DH. Philippe, you always seem to find a cooler way to do things than most. KUDOS for yet another ingenious effort in Transpac. Crusty going with you?

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Process doesn't even begin to describe it - I had the pleasure of unpinning the headstay during gybes with Bill, Stu and the boys when they first got the boat. The pole the Magnitude boys had set up went from the headstay to the front edge of the cockpit and gybing was as described - ease the pole to the headstay, take up on the leeward guy to pin the headstay on centreline, and then gybe the a-sail like a sprit boat. Headstay unpinned, lifted over the pole, and re-pinned. ease the leeward afterguy, and the weather afterguy could be squared.

Unpin the head stay? Holy Cow Batman! Brave. I helped with a jibe or two on an Andrews 68 Victoria in Long Beach when that boat rated 70. I'm pretty sure we didn't consider the headstay running gear.

 

Bit of a pig around the buoys though.

 

 

Koukel

 

Isn't that Rx Bob's way of doing it on Medicine Man as well? The pucker factor is high in confused seas and big breeze.

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Very cool to see you doing this PK, I'll be following your progress. I'd say see you there but I no longer live in Hawaii. Good luck!

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Taxi Dancer has the long pole configuration as an option as well. We had planned to do the 01' TransPac in this setup, when the race committee called two weeks before the start and said our rating would be too high. So, we sailed with our standard pole instead. We sailed with the long pole in an Ensenada Race and set the current record for the Around Catalina Island Race from LA to Dana. It is intimidating when the manuever is described. But, in practice it was not that bad. We just led halyards forward for added insurance during the jibe.

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IMO it would be great to see a fleet of "70s" racing again. We used to get 10 - 15 on the line for key Cali events. Great racing and they provided room to keep a lot of crew racing at very competitive levels.

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Mark,

 

Med Man has done away with the oversized pole and gone to a sprit, but yes detaching the headstay was the way it used to be done.

 

 

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Thanks guys. To lay the name thing to rest, with your input, we were thinking of calling these boats "Waikiki 70s". That would include SC70, Andrews sleds etc...and use the atranspac rule for handicapping. Handicaps are always challenging. Boats would need to be1999 or earlier.

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

 

Philippe,

Not to get to technical here, but I do not believe the boat you purchased, Equation (former Magnitude), is a sistership of Chaval. It is my understanding that Chaval, which you know well, was pretty much a blown up SC 70, built at a time that Bill Lee did not own the mold for the SC 70.(For reasons I cannot remember, a bank owned the mold) Hal Ward had actually wanted an SC 70, but could not build one, so he got what Bill Lee had on papwer regarding the SC 70 and then went to Alan Andrews and built a blown up SC 70 with a different bow, a wider stern and basically a more powerful boat than an SC 70. Later Andrews took the next step with the following sleds he built, (Renegade, Trader...) making them more powerful through out the hull form than even Chaval. Therefore, Chaval was not as beaming at the waterline as your new boat and I believe the your new boat has a bit more waterline overall.

 

Probably just told you something that you already knew.

 

Cheers and good luck with the boat

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

<laughing> thanks for the post, PK. I figured *you* knew the difference (!), my [semi-rhetorical] question was more pointed at the editors of the front-page article, which contained info that many of us immediately knew was incorrect...

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Thanks guys. To lay the name thing to rest, with your input, we were thinking of calling these boats "Waikiki 70s". That would include SC70, Andrews sleds etc...and use the atranspac rule for handicapping. Handicaps are always challenging. Boats would need to be1999 or earlier.

 

Hey newb - got any pics?

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She's not sailing yet. Yesterday, we found that she floats. A good thing. By Monday we should have her sailing.

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

 

Philippe,

Not to get to technical here, but I do not believe the boat you purchased, Equation (former Magnitude), is a sistership of Chaval. It is my understanding that Chaval, which you know well, was pretty much a blown up SC 70, built at a time that Bill Lee did not own the mold for the SC 70.(For reasons I cannot remember, a bank owned the mold) Hal Ward had actually wanted an SC 70, but could not build one, so he got what Bill Lee had on papwer regarding the SC 70 and then went to Alan Andrews and built a blown up SC 70 with a different bow, a wider stern and basically a more powerful boat than an SC 70. Later Andrews took the next step with the following sleds he built, (Renegade, Trader...) making them more powerful through out the hull form than even Chaval. Therefore, Chaval was not as beaming at the waterline as your new boat and I believe the your new boat has a bit more waterline overall.

 

Probably just told you something that you already knew.

 

Cheers and good luck with the boat

 

 

 

 

Fail... the boat he has was/is the last out of the Andrews sled mold at Dencho, first was Victoria then Alchemy ect. ect. ect. and all was well Transpac wise until they went to IMS 70 max rating and opened up the door (no pun ent.)for Hal to build a turbo sled from the same mold, that pony was a rocket, 1st to finish even w/o the mast for the last 45 miles....

 

Renegade and Trader were Russian pigs. nuff said

 

Good luck in the TP PK

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the boat he has was/is the last out of the Andrews sled mold at Dencho, first was Victoria then Alchemy ect. ect. ect. and all was well Transpac wise until they went to IMS 70 max rating and opened up the door (no pun ent.)for Hal to build a turbo sled from the same mold, that pony was a rocket, 1st to finish even w/o the mast for the last 45 miles....

 

Renegade and Trader were Russian pigs. nuff said

 

Estonian, not Russian. <grin>

 

And the death-knell for the sled "class" really began when Victoria and Pyewacket turbo'd themselves out of an otherwise fairly-level SoCal playing field. Building Cheval was a logical next step in escalating [what became] a battle of the checkbooks.

 

Other than that, spot-on.

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Philippe is right, his new boat is a sisterhull to Cheval/Pegasus 70, his previous boat. There were seven boats built by Dencho out of those molds:

 

Hull 1 Victoria/Front Runner/Grins/Titan XI? now Shindig - started racing ULDB 70 class, "turbo'd" about 1996

Hull 2 Alchemy - still racing UDLB 70 class; fighting it out at the top of the heap under Per Peterson's ownership

Hull 3 Stella Maris - cruiser with shear line raised for more interior volume

Hull 4 Cheval/Pegasus 70/Decision/Runaway - an original "turbo-sled" the bow on this one was plumbed in 2000 when Philippe owned it

Hull 5 Vicki, now Condor - masthead rigged "turbo-sled" turning in good results in ULDB 70 class under Lindy Thomas' ownership

Hull 6 Magnitude/Equation now the latest in the Pegasus stable

Hull 7 Elysium now Elainium - this cruiser had both raised sheer and widened stern by essentially inserting a wedge in the mold from stern to stem before laminating the hull.

 

Trader and Renegade were longer, wider and more powerful hulls, completely different boats designed for a different set of races.

 

 

Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

 

Philippe,

Not to get to technical here, but I do not believe the boat you purchased, Equation (former Magnitude), is a sistership of Chaval. It is my understanding that Chaval, which you know well, was pretty much a blown up SC 70, built at a time that Bill Lee did not own the mold for the SC 70.(For reasons I cannot remember, a bank owned the mold) Hal Ward had actually wanted an SC 70, but could not build one, so he got what Bill Lee had on papwer regarding the SC 70 and then went to Alan Andrews and built a blown up SC 70 with a different bow, a wider stern and basically a more powerful boat than an SC 70. Later Andrews took the next step with the following sleds he built, (Renegade, Trader...) making them more powerful through out the hull form than even Chaval. Therefore, Chaval was not as beaming at the waterline as your new boat and I believe the your new boat has a bit more waterline overall.

 

Probably just told you something that you already knew.

 

Cheers and good luck with the boat

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Philippe is right, his new boat is a sisterhull to Cheval/Pegasus 70, his previous boat. There were seven boats built by Dencho out of those molds:

 

Hull 1 Victoria/Front Runner/Grins/Titan XI? now Shindig - started racing ULDB 70 class, "turbo'd" about 1996

Hull 2 Alchemy - still racing UDLB 70 class; fighting it out at the top of the heap under Per Peterson's ownership

Hull 3 Stella Maris - cruiser with shear line raised for more interior volume

Hull 4 Cheval/Pegasus 70/Decision/Runaway - an original "turbo-sled" the bow on this one was plumbed in 2000 when Philippe owned it

Hull 5 Vicki, now Condor - masthead rigged "turbo-sled" turning in good results in ULDB 70 class under Lindy Thomas' ownership

Hull 6 Magnitude/Equation now the latest in the Pegasus stable

Hull 7 Elysium now Elainium - this cruiser had both raised sheer and widened stern by essentially inserting a wedge in the mold from stern to stem before laminating the hull.

 

Trader and Renegade were longer, wider and more powerful hulls, completely different boats designed for a different set of races.

 

 

Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

 

Philippe,

Not to get to technical here, but I do not believe the boat you purchased, Equation (former Magnitude), is a sistership of Chaval. It is my understanding that Chaval, which you know well, was pretty much a blown up SC 70, built at a time that Bill Lee did not own the mold for the SC 70.(For reasons I cannot remember, a bank owned the mold) Hal Ward had actually wanted an SC 70, but could not build one, so he got what Bill Lee had on papwer regarding the SC 70 and then went to Alan Andrews and built a blown up SC 70 with a different bow, a wider stern and basically a more powerful boat than an SC 70. Later Andrews took the next step with the following sleds he built, (Renegade, Trader...) making them more powerful through out the hull form than even Chaval. Therefore, Chaval was not as beaming at the waterline as your new boat and I believe the your new boat has a bit more waterline overall.

 

Probably just told you something that you already knew.

 

Cheers and good luck with the boat

 

 

My information was obviously wrong and I stand corrected. Pretty cool to get the information straight from the designer.

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Hi guys, Philippe, here. Of course I know that she started her life as an Andrews 70! After 12 pacific crossings, 3 double handed ones I get it. I'm fact I bought Cheval her sisyership and raced her in the 1999 Transpac.

 

So we chopped off the mast, shortened and lightened the fin and in general slowed her down do that we could have some fair racing with the other 70s under the Transpac rule using the handicap derived from the rule. We hope that others do similar things and that we can all have some fun racing. Simple.

 

Thanks - not that you owe us ( or anyone else ) an explanation - but, the idea of re-invigorating big-boat competition on the west coast is a worthy one.

 

I think your idea on this is a solid one and hope you have many great miles on that boat. That 'captians of industry' would have more fun with better competition than just having the ultimate 'go-fast' boat in a particular mode is an realization long overdue in bigger boats. See around the WYC this summer, best luck in the race.

 

And now that Andrews guy is weighing in ? Good Lord, - soon this thread will be AWASH with facts if we aren't careful.

 

How about we start a rumor that the new boat will use a pair of old Melges 24s as amas ?

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The previous Pegasus blowing past us (I was crewing on VALIS) last summer about 750nm W of SF. Horizon to horizon in what seemed like less than an hour. Nice to see you on SA, PK.

 

 

post-17756-067763100 1305067893_thumb.jpg

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Here is a fresh picture, bow-to-bow with Grand Illusion. Very similar. Our goal is to find ways to have fun and fair racing while we surf down the waves to Honolulu. The Journey is the reward! - Philippe -

post-52638-022469900 1305068480_thumb.jpg

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We do like the name "Waikiki 70" for what we hope will be a class of great boats focused on surfing DOWN the waves as opposed to reaching fast across them. Waikiki is about fun and surfing. - Philippe - PS Note in the picture, Adrews under-body, shorter finn light bulb (shorter mast). Yes we are slowing her down, focused on making her a great surfing platform!post-52638-074096000 1305068935_thumb.jpg

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post-52638-081193400 1305069346_thumb.jpgTo be clear, Greg Stewart and Bruce Nelson, my fellow Etchell competitors have been working with us since October 2010 to do something fun and fair. They sail on the Holua and will be competing with us. Dave Ullman and I have had a running bet with the Open 50 double-handed against the Holua for three years. So we are all in for this year in similar boats. Dave runs the Holua and he and I sail together and against each other in the Etchells, Melges 24s etc... He's such a fantastic guy!

 

We picked Greg and Bruce because they were "neutral to the santa Cruz 70, Andrews 70 rivalry". Which is important if we want to have a chance to help establish the Waikiki 70s on the West Coast, Southern and Northern California.

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And unlike the non-transpac'd TP 52s, this class would have great performance-cruising possiblities as well.

 

It would be great if some of them could attend the Waikiki Offshores ( July 22-24 ) after Transpac - although I know many programs are in a hurry to return to the coast - we really appreciated your participation in previous years.

 

Thanks for the insight, I hope it really catches on.

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We do like the name "Waikiki 70" for what we hope will be a class of great boats focused on surfing DOWN the waves as opposed to reaching fast across them. Waikiki is about fun and surfing. - Philippe - PS Note in the picture, Adrews under-body, shorter finn light bulb (shorter mast). Yes we are slowing her down, focused on making her a great surfing platform!post-52638-074096000 1305068935_thumb.jpg

Mid section hull form under the aft sling looks very IOR-esque - for the uninformed like me is that a sled legacy along with the fine stern sections?

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post-52638-081193400 1305069346_thumb.jpgTo be clear, Greg Stewart and Bruce Nelson, my fellow Etchell competitors have been working with us since October 2010 to do something fun and fair. They sail on the Holua and will be competing with us. Dave Ullman and I have had a running bet with the Open 50 double-handed against the Holua for three years. So we are all in for this year in similar boats. Dave runs the Holua and he and I sail together and against each other in the Etchells, Melges 24s etc... He's such a fantastic guy!

 

We picked Greg and Bruce because they were "neutral to the santa Cruz 70, Andrews 70 rivalry". Which is important if we want to have a chance to help establish the Waikiki 70s on the West Coast, Southern and Northern California.

Does that mean a Cal Cup challenge as well?

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We do like the name "Waikiki 70" for what we hope will be a class of great boats focused on surfing DOWN the waves as opposed to reaching fast across them. Waikiki is about fun and surfing. - Philippe - PS Note in the picture, Adrews under-body, shorter finn light bulb (shorter mast). Yes we are slowing her down, focused on making her a great surfing platform!post-52638-074096000 1305068935_thumb.jpg

 

Nice to see a another high end sled being launched at Cabrillo Boat Shop.

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PK, I sail a 4ktsb, but in my dreams I would love the new class. Is Runaway eligible to be a W-70? Wondering why you didn't buy her back. Too much damage from Katrina?

 

Also, since you aked about the name, Waikiki 70...Is there not already a "West Coast 70" class? And would all boats need to be de-turbo'ed to play?

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The idea is have a catchy name that means surfing. In some ways they are smilar. WC means "Water Closet" to many... Waikiki means fun and surfing to a lot of people.

 

PK, I sail a 4ktsb, but in my dreams I would love the new class. Is Runaway eligible to be a W-70? Wondering why you didn't buy her back. Too much damage from Katrina?

 

Also, since you aked about the name, Waikiki 70...Is there not already a "West Coast 70" class? And would all boats need to be de-turbo'ed to play?

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To be clear, Greg Stewart and Bruce Nelson, my fellow Etchell competitors have been working with us since October 2010 to do something fun and fair. They sail on the Holua and will be competing with us. Dave Ullman and I have had a running bet with the Open 50 double-handed against the Holua for three years. So we are all in for this year in similar boats. Dave runs the Holua and he and I sail together and against each other in the Etchells, Melges 24s etc... He's such a fantastic guy!

 

 

This Holua?

 

1246183210_TVcAq-XL-2.jpg

 

 

 

How about a little Surf City walk through when your new ride gets here to SC, Philippe?

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The idea is have a catchy name that means surfing. In some ways they are smilar. WC means "Water Closet" to many... Waikiki means fun and surfing to a lot of people.

 

PK, I sail a 4ktsb, but in my dreams I would love the new class. Is Runaway eligible to be a W-70? Wondering why you didn't buy her back. Too much damage from Katrina?

 

Also, since you aked about the name, Waikiki 70...Is there not already a "West Coast 70" class? And would all boats need to be de-turbo'ed to play?

 

Waikiki does sound more fun! Although I've had some good times in a water closet!!

 

Very cool that you'd chime in here, btw.

 

And what about Runaway? Too turbo'd for the boat you needed? Under her various names, she has always been one of my favorite boats. For some reason her and ex-Exile (then Blue Yankee) always got me day dreaming.

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We do like the name "Waikiki 70" for what we hope will be a class of great boats focused on surfing DOWN the waves as opposed to reaching fast across them. Waikiki is about fun and surfing. - Philippe - PS Note in the picture, Adrews under-body, shorter finn light bulb (shorter mast). Yes we are slowing her down, focused on making her a great surfing platform!post-52638-074096000 1305068935_thumb.jpg

 

Cool pics, thanks for sharing them. As much as I hate to see many of these boats leaving the Great Lakes over the past decade or so, I am happy to see a group of WC owners taking an active interest in resurecting them back to their "glory years" there instead of just seeing the boats fad away to a slow death from neglect as happens to many boats. Best of luck with the new boat.

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We do like the name "Waikiki 70" for what we hope will be a class of great boats focused on surfing DOWN the waves as opposed to reaching fast across them. Waikiki is about fun and surfing. - Philippe - PS Note in the picture, Adrews under-body, shorter finn light bulb (shorter mast). Yes we are slowing her down, focused on making her a great surfing platform!post-52638-074096000 1305068935_thumb.jpg

 

Cool pics, thanks for sharing them. As much as I hate to see many of these boats leaving the Great Lakes over the past decade or so, I am happy to see a group of WC owners taking an active interest in resurecting them back to their "glory years" there instead of just seeing the boats fad away to a slow death from neglect as happens to many boats. Best of luck with the new boat.

 

 

Whatever happend to Merlin? Didn't she go to the GLs?

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We do like the name "Waikiki 70" for what we hope will be a class of great boats focused on surfing DOWN the waves as opposed to reaching fast across them. Waikiki is about fun and surfing. - Philippe - PS Note in the picture, Adrews under-body, shorter finn light bulb (shorter mast). Yes we are slowing her down, focused on making her a great surfing platform!post-52638-074096000 1305068935_thumb.jpg

 

Cool pics, thanks for sharing them. As much as I hate to see many of these boats leaving the Great Lakes over the past decade or so, I am happy to see a group of WC owners taking an active interest in resurecting them back to their "glory years" there instead of just seeing the boats fad away to a slow death from neglect as happens to many boats. Best of luck with the new boat.

 

 

Whatever happend to Merlin? Didn't she go to the GLs?

 

Correct, to Milwaukee, Wisc to an owner who seems to have a deep appreciation for both history and true classics.

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Yes that Holua.

 

It's pretty much a stock boat like a Moore 24. Not much exciting. That's the way we want it. Simple.

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".....It's pretty much a stock boat like a Moore 24. ....."

Yea, a Moore 24 that's been fed steroids for a couple of decades!!!! :P

 

Best wishes for some great CLASS racing!

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I heard this too, apparently sitting in Muskegon and maybe for sale again soon.

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I heard this too, apparently sitting in Muskegon and maybe for sale again soon.

 

 

This is true. She is on the hard at Torresen Marine in Muskegon. She has been repainted (white). There are no plans to sail the boat in 2011, but I hope that changes. For now the plan is for her to remain in Muskegon until further notice. I have heard rumors of her sailing in the Lakes in 2012, but that is pure rumor.

 

I have a pic of her just after she was painted. No deck gear... nothing. I was going to post it as a 'what is it' but I am technically challenged. I can tell you she looked like a Melgas 24 from the stern looking forward and down from the angle I took the shots.

 

I have heard nothing about her possible being for sale again. Nothing.

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Here is a picture from the first sail today. She's great! "Viva the Waikiki 70s" - Philippe -post-52638-037688200 1305186268_thumb.jpg

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It's on his Moore as well, always odd to see a Moore sail with such a large number on it!

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Did you guys add the Nav pod back aft or was that a bolt on option that came with the boat? I don't remember ever seeing it before.

Also did you paint the rig white?

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