ianlf

F-22 Update

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2 in the factory was going to be mine, but I stole 1 due to the kiwi winter stuffing trials around.

3 is at Jindalee with a nice dad son duo putting her together. They are in same creek as me but the other club (Sandgate Yacht Club). They have a boom, I am saving up for one.

Sounds like a good Abbott and Costello clip?

So yours is the only production F22 on the water at this stage?

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Anyway, apart from hearing Peter hosted Ian in Brisbane & no one was invited :-(

 

Where are they now?

 

Peter has 1

Where is 2 ?

Number 3 above in Brisbane - which club will she be sailing out of?

 

Unfortunately I only had one day in Brisbane, and it was important to get Peter's feedback, check out how the boat was going, and all the little details he had found or improved. I had a much too quick sail, and then had to head over to the other side of town (Westlake) to drop off some parts and check on how No. 3 was going.

 

Meetings can be great, but also tend to take a lot of time, and be a little unproductive when it comes to product development, so had to take a pass this time. However, I am openly available and listen to all opinions right here in the biggest meeting place of all. I have been at many meetings and events in the past when in Australia, and that will be the case again once we get through this development stage, which is fairly intense right now.

 

The boats? Peter has No. 1, No. 2 which was to be Peters is now ours and at the factory waiting to be finished ready for when the weather warms up here. Basically just needs a mast to go sailing. You can see it in the foreground (on trailer) in the below picture taken today:

 

post-18231-0-76980900-1406923474_thumb.jpg

 

No. 3 is in Brisbane and being fitted out, photo in an earlier post, and it will be sailing this coming Summer. No. 4 is at top left of above photo, and almost finished whereupon it will be heading for the UK. Main holdup at present are interior/galley molds which I finally got around to a couple of weeks ago. Been in the too hard basket for a while, as in this size boat the galley has to be super efficient, and it needed plenty of thought. With molds, there is only one chance to get it right. After researching all the options I finally got in the boat a couple of weeks ago, worked it all out over one weekend, and am very pleased with the result. Very little intrusion, very efficient, and not clunky or taking up too much room, as many galleys in this size boat can. The guys are now making the necessary molds, so should have the first actual interior in place the week after next.

 

But in the meantime we do have a bit of a log jam developing in the factory with No. 5 being joined up in center, and its deck just behind (obscured by No. 2). The deck should be on next week, and it is heading to Switzerland once finished. No. 6 deck can just be seen at lower right, ready to come out of mold, while hull can just be seen above this (behind yellow crane), where basic interior is being formed now that centerboard case has been fitted (photo earlier).

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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i see weta have now shifted production to singapore

 

so many choices in asia now

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(...)

 

I had a simple question to a user and SA member who insists on arguing based on facts, and all I get is a "compare the order books". My question was not about comparing Corsair to Farrier, but to substantiate what you said you had heard about Corsair not doing very well.

 

It's not about disclosing your order books. It's about facts behind what you had said.

If you care about answering this question, I'd be glad to read it. If not, please ignore this post.

 

 

(...)

 

It is also good to be able to shine a bright light under the desks where some are hiding, and making all sorts of ridiculous claims that they cannot back up. Years ago they could get away with it in a local bar, but now the internet has made it possible to shoot down any balloons filled with hot air and misinformation.

 

(...)

 

Maybe I have overlooked something, but it seems then that you chose not to substantiate what you said about Corsair ?

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I would be very happy to have a racing exclusion that retained liability cover for racing. I'm sure racing car drivers are insured for liability.

 

Not when I was racing - people accepted there were risks without having to blame or sue someone else for any misfortune.

Way off topic I know but are you saying that when you were motor racing if a spectator or flag marshal was killed or injured the race car driver was held personally responsible and had to pay the several million dollar claim?

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One major problem we have with insurance is the lack of choice. We are required to be insured (liability) for racing, no policy - no race. We can't get liability only insurance, the insurance companies won't offer it, only comprehensive which includes liability. Anyone would have to be crazy to even take their boat off the mooring or out of the driveway without liability cover. I have never seen a policy with a capsize exclusion. I have seen policies with racing exclusion but that also excludes the liability. I would be very happy to have a racing exclusion that retained liability cover for racing. I'm sure racing car drivers are insured for liability.

I have rolled rally cars 3 times, always at my own cost. Capsized a racing catamaran - no insurance claim. I had a rally spectator sue me once for being hit by a flying rock, she claimed was thrown by my car. I couldn't prove it was not so it was fortunate that I was covered for liability.

In the US you can get personal liability insurance - covers you against the neighbor's kid drowning in your pool etc and is relatively cheap compared to vehicle related liability. You can use it instead of car insurance liability and it's generally cheaper. I would imagine it should cover sailing related liability. Dunno if you Antipods have that down there.

In Aust one needs liability insurance for each particular circumstance. A tradesman comes to work at your house, you need to check that he is insured otherwise you may be liable for what he does, eg falls off his ladder. For cars we have CTP (compulsory third party)so that if you injure someone they still get paid even if you have nothing. If your CTP has expired and you injure someone you are personally liable and will lose everything you have. With boats the same applies, injure someone with no liability insurance and you will lose everything you have. That's why Yacht clubs require liability insurance for racing, if the claimant can't get the payout from you (uninsured) they will get it from the yacht club. Cruising uninsured, you're on your own and will lose everything if you injure someone. Same risk as driving uninsured except it is legal.

In Aust we can only get marine liability insurance as part of comprehensive marine insurance. And some trimaran owners have been in the position of being unable to get cover which means they would be foolhardy to leave the mooring, or driveway. Actually even on the mooring, a fishing boat could raft up to your boat (without permission) and the fisherman might get injured and his insurance company will claim on you.

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I would be very happy to have a racing exclusion that retained liability cover for racing. I'm sure racing car drivers are insured for liability.

 

Not when I was racing - people accepted there were risks without having to blame or sue someone else for any misfortune.

Way off topic I know but are you saying that when you were motor racing if a spectator or flag marshal was killed or injured the race car driver was held personally responsible and had to pay the several million dollar claim?
Very different liability rules in NZ nuddy, there are fixed maximum costs for body parts I believe. It is one of the reasons they get away with all of the fun adventure activities

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After last weekend I can find no more suitable challengers in the multihulls, so have gone looking for bigger scalps in another fleet. If they hadn't covered me I would have wound them in easy.

 

attachicon.gif2014_07_31_5210lowres.jpg

 

Peter

No contest Peter. Hull challenged motor boats lose on basic principle.

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2 in the factory was going to be mine, but I stole 1 due to the kiwi winter stuffing trials around.

3 is at Jindalee with a nice dad son duo putting her together. They are in same creek as me but the other club (Sandgate Yacht Club). They have a boom, I am saving up for one.

Sounds like a good Abbott and Costello clip?

So yours is the only production F22 on the water at this stage?

I think that #1 is truly a production F22 is a moot point. The way I see it is that development continues, #1 is the prototype, sure it is out of the production moulds but changes made to #1 then go into production. Even the #2 mast is not yet the production mast

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(...)

 

I had a simple question to a user and SA member who insists on arguing based on facts, and all I get is a "compare the order books". My question was not about comparing Corsair to Farrier, but to substantiate what you said you had heard about Corsair not doing very well.

 

It's not about disclosing your order books. It's about facts behind what you had said.

If you care about answering this question, I'd be glad to read it. If not, please ignore this post.

 

 

(...)

 

It is also good to be able to shine a bright light under the desks where some are hiding, and making all sorts of ridiculous claims that they cannot back up. Years ago they could get away with it in a local bar, but now the internet has made it possible to shoot down any balloons filled with hot air and misinformation.

 

(...)

 

Maybe I have overlooked something, but it seems then that you chose not to substantiate what you said about Corsair ?

 

 

Have already answered several times now, last instance being #1085, and if you disagree with my comments then get your friends to disclose their orders (which I have already done), to show otherwise.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs That Work

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I would be very happy to have a racing exclusion that retained liability cover for racing. I'm sure racing car drivers are insured for liability.

 

Not when I was racing - people accepted there were risks without having to blame or sue someone else for any misfortune.

Way off topic I know but are you saying that when you were motor racing if a spectator or flag marshal was killed or injured the race car driver was held personally responsible and had to pay the several million dollar claim?

 

Not when I was racing, nor did it seem a problem when the Group B Rally cars were the rage in Europe - have you seen how close spectators would stand to the cars? Insane. I noted your problem with the rock, but what do some spectators think when they go to a race track - stuff can happen. Stay in bed if life is too risky.

 

We also did not have to have roll cages or fire proof suits in my day, and the class 'All Comers Saloons" says it all - anything went (until they got too dangerous). I only do track days now, and one does not not need insurance even today. May be different for circuit racing in NZ, but have not checked.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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Any chance of getting a boat to the sydney boat show next year? There was acres of gin palace with a few cruising cats and a spirited 380 but no small trimarans to look over (other than the micro hobies). It would be great to have an f22 for the crowds to clamber over next year chaps.

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(...)

 

I had a simple question to a user and SA member who insists on arguing based on facts, and all I get is a "compare the order books". My question was not about comparing Corsair to Farrier, but to substantiate what you said you had heard about Corsair not doing very well.

 

It's not about disclosing your order books. It's about facts behind what you had said.

If you care about answering this question, I'd be glad to read it. If not, please ignore this post.

 

 

 

 

>

(...)

 

It is also good to be able to shine a bright light under the desks where some are hiding, and making all sorts of ridiculous claims that they cannot back up. Years ago they could get away with it in a local bar, but now the internet has made it possible to shoot down any balloons filled with hot air and misinformation.

 

(...)

>

Maybe I have overlooked something, but it seems then that you chose not to substantiate what you said about Corsair ?

 

Have already answered several times now, last instance being #1085, and if you disagree with my comments then get your friends to disclose their orders (which I have already done), to show otherwise. [/size]

 

Ian Farrier[/size]

 

Farrier Marine[/size]

Designs That Work[/size]

 

You are a hypocrite. You make unsubstantiated claims about your opposition and demand others back up anything you think is adverse about yourself. Corsair and Grainger don't have to back up or disclose anything. They are not part of this discussion. Further more any business that has to bag it's opposition is usually trying to deflect scrutiny from itself.

Furthermore I thought the finish on the Corsair 31 I chartered in Phuket was really good and the New sprint Racing up there was a little gem. A far more substantial looking boat than the F22. The latest Grainger designs also look really nice and if the performance is up to his previous standards they will be the boat of choice for the sailor looking for a performance edge. His underwater shapes make yours look like something out of the Ark.

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Any chance of getting a boat to the sydney boat show next year? There was acres of gin palace with a few cruising cats and a spirited 380 but no small trimarans to look over (other than the micro hobies). It would be great to have an f22 for the crowds to clamber over next year chaps.

Yes I agree it would have been great to have a presence at Sydney and also up this way at Sanctuary Cove IBS, but it would have been hard to justify the outlay and then have to give an honest answer on delivery time. I would assume most boats at the show would have a shorter delivery timeline.

I am trying to spread info and pics around where possible without pimping too much (I heard a roar from the opposition then), and if anyone wants a sail or a look at #1, it is rigged and ready to go. I was hoping to get to the Lock Crowther regatta but it clashes with two major events up here, so no Sydney visit, but Geelong is pencilled in.

Peter

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Furthermore I thought the finish on the Corsair 31 I chartered in Phuket was really good and the New sprint Racing up there was a little gem. A far more substantial looking boat than the F22. The latest Grainger designs also look really nice and if the performance is up to his previous standards they will be the boat of choice for the sailor looking for a performance edge. His underwater shapes make yours look like something out of the Ark.

Have you taken my whole stash and used it in one go?

I am a biased fella towards my F22 after having sailed it a lot now, and I have sailed all the Sprints, so I don't know how you can say a Sprint is more "substantial" than a 22? WTF does that mean?

The Mk 2 is certainly a different boat to the Mk 1, but they are still based on old technology/folding systems etc.

As for the new Graingers looking nice, that silver and orange RAW is wonderful artwork I must agree, I will save up and get an attractive wrap suitable for a hot little Brisvegas multihull, how about this?

 

post-10329-0-94841100-1407060104_thumb.jpg

 

I just don't get your game Pete, you still own some of a very successful F9 you always raved about, you charter an F/C 31, and all you want to do is moan about how good the G-boats are on an F-22 thread?

Go and join the long queue and buy one!

 

You tell me my boat will be no good for cruising, yet you are advocating thinner and admittedly faster boats that even in longer designs have less room than my little Ark?

Will you be happy if we adopt this wrap for our one design rules?

 

post-10329-0-49289400-1407060592_thumb.jpg

 

Peter

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Anyway, apart from hearing Peter hosted Ian in Brisbane & no one was invited :-(

 

Where are they now?

 

Peter has 1

Where is 2 ?

Number 3 above in Brisbane - which club will she be sailing out of?

Unfortunately I only had one day in Brisbane, and it was important to get Peter's feedback, check out how the boat was going, and all the little details he had found or improved. I had a much too quick sail, and then had to head over mto the other side of town (Westlake) to drop off some parts and check on how No. 3 was going.

 

Meetings can be great, but also tend to take a lot of time, and be a little unproductive when it comes to product development, so had to take a pass this time. However, I am openly available and listen to all opinions right here in the biggest meeting place of all. I have been at many meetings and events in the past when in Australia, and that will be the case again once we get through this development stage, which is fairly intense right now.

 

The boats? Peter has No. 1, No. 2 which was to be Peters is now ours and at the factory waiting to be finished ready for when the weather warms up here. Basically just needs a mast to go sailing. You can see it in the foreground (on trailer) in the below picture taken today:

 

FactoryAugust2014.jpg

No. 3 is in Brisbane and being fitted out, photo in an earlier post, and it will be sailing this coming Summer. No. 4 is at top left of above photo, and almost finished whereupon it will be heading for the UK. Main holdup at present are interior/galley molds which I finally got around to a couple of weeks ago. Been in the too hard basket for a while, as in this size boat the galley has to be super efficient, and it needed plenty of thought. With molds, there is only one chance to get it right. After researching all the options I finally got in the boat a couple of weeks ago, worked it all out over one weekend, and am very pleased with the result. Very little intrusion, very efficient, and not clunky or taking up too much room, as many galleys in this size boat can. The guys are now making the necessary molds, so should have the first actual interior in place the week after next.

 

But in the meantime we do have a bit of a log jam developing in the factory with No. 5 being joined up in center, and its deck just behind (obscured by No. 2). The deck should be on next week, and it is heading to Switzerland once finished. No. 6 deck can just be seen at lower right, ready to come out of mold, while hull can just be seen above this (behind yellow crane), where basic interior is being formed now that centerboard case has been fitted (photo earlier).

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Thanks for the response Ian & Peter. Production looks like its trucking along now. I've seen Peter's boat in action and it will be good to see #1 & #3 on the race track together.

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Peter what about Wangi, November 16 - 21 2014, (Nuddy, put up a link to the NOR , I'm a bit deficient in that field)

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In what world is production trucking along? You must be a mule

 

 

Thanks for the response Ian & Peter. Production looks like its trucking along now. I've seen Peter's boat in action and it will be good to see #1 & #3 on the race track together.

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In what world is production trucking along? You must be a mule

 

 

 

Thanks for the response Ian & Peter. Production looks like its trucking along now. I've seen Peter's boat in action and it will be good to see #1 & #3 on the race track together.

You got me! Pity me sir, you cannot begin to understand my sexual frustration.

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Did someone engineer the rig / spreader geometry on this rig or was it an educated guess in the factory I wonder?

 

 

Seemed like a reasonable question to me. Whats the problem with providing an answer?

Totally unreasonable question IMO. Educated guess! I don't always agree with Ian's position on the best solution to a problem but I would never question his engineering or accuse him of an educated guess. Ian is a designer in the very best sense of the word.

I don't think Ian's rep as a designer has been questioned. Perhaps you could explain why it is an unreasonable question without resorting to an appeal to authority.

I think it is an unreasonable question to ask an engineer whose job is engineering and who has just engineered a mast: "Did you engineer that mast or did someone make an educated guess?"

Didn't think you could. Thanks for confirming.

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jamez... they engineered it on the light side as part of their R&D program as has been already stated

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jamez... they engineered it on the light side as part of their R&D program as has been already stated

Thank you Rushman... That was obvious from Ian's posts 1002, 1006, 1017. However that was not my question.

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Furthermore I thought the finish on the Corsair 31 I chartered in Phuket was really good and the New sprint Racing up there was a little gem. A far more substantial looking boat than the F22. The latest Grainger designs also look really nice and if the performance is up to his previous standards they will be the boat of choice for the sailor looking for a performance edge. His underwater shapes make yours look like something out of the Ark.

Have you taken my whole stash and used it in one go?

I am a biased fella towards my F22 after having sailed it a lot now, and I have sailed all the Sprints, so I don't know how you can say a Sprint is more "substantial" than a 22? WTF does that mean?

The Mk 2 is certainly a different boat to the Mk 1, but they are still based on old technology/folding systems etc.

As for the new Graingers looking nice, that silver and orange RAW is wonderful artwork I must agree, I will save up and get an attractive wrap suitable for a hot little Brisvegas multihull, how about this?

 

 

attachicon.gifvinyl-boat-wraps-1.jpg

 

I just don't get your game Pete, you still own some of a very successful F9 you always raved about, you charter an F/C 31, and all you want to do is moan about how good the G-boats are on an F-22 thread?

Go and join the long queue and buy one!

 

You tell me my boat will be no good for cruising, yet you are advocating thinner and admittedly faster boats that even in longer designs have less room than my little Ark?

Will you be happy if we adopt this wrap for our one design rules?

 

attachicon.gifCapturewrap.JPG

 

Peter

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

Look this is Anarchy and there is no requirement to make any sense with what you say and thread high jacking is fair game. Well Ian seems to think so and if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.

You really need to speak to your boss and tell him to stop leading with his chin because every time he does someone's going to take a swing at it.

I'm actually a non owner now but the boat still lives at my place and I still reckon it's a great all round boat. Probably Ian's best all round design and even then there were weaknesses. Eg catastrophic failure in production beams. The new ones came from Corsair on Farriers suggestion and there has been no sign of failure in the flanges after 6 years of brutal racing. Even Shaun has had catastrophic beam failure on his Production F31. When your designs have had that sort of problem you are best to keep mum about anyone else's designs or production.

Putting a mast out that breaks and claiming after the event that you new it would is just BS. If that's the case you need to put your cards on the table before the event.

While we're at it tell your boss that canning the opposition just drags down the whole multihull market and that's something we don't need. If he thinks his order book is good then he must be green with envy at Weta's.

Send me some more of your gear. For medicinal purposes only.

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Furthermore I thought the finish on the Corsair 31 I chartered in Phuket was really good and the New sprint Racing up there was a little gem. A far more substantial looking boat than the F22. The latest Grainger designs also look really nice and if the performance is up to his previous standards they will be the boat of choice for the sailor looking for a performance edge. His underwater shapes make yours look like something out of the Ark.

Have you taken my whole stash and used it in one go?

I am a biased fella towards my F22 after having sailed it a lot now, and I have sailed all the Sprints, so I don't know how you can say a Sprint is more "substantial" than a 22? WTF does that mean?

The Mk 2 is certainly a different boat to the Mk 1, but they are still based on old technology/folding systems etc.

As for the new Graingers looking nice, that silver and orange RAW is wonderful artwork I must agree, I will save up and get an attractive wrap suitable for a hot little Brisvegas multihull, how about this?

 

 

attachicon.gifvinyl-boat-wraps-1.jpg

 

I just don't get your game Pete, you still own some of a very successful F9 you always raved about, you charter an F/C 31, and all you want to do is moan about how good the G-boats are on an F-22 thread?

Go and join the long queue and buy one!

 

You tell me my boat will be no good for cruising, yet you are advocating thinner and admittedly faster boats that even in longer designs have less room than my little Ark?

Will you be happy if we adopt this wrap for our one design rules?

 

attachicon.gifCapturewrap.JPG

 

Peter

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

Look this is Anarchy and there is no requirement to make any sense with what you say and thread high jacking is fair game. Well Ian seems to think so and if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me.

You really need to speak to your boss and tell him to stop leading with his chin because every time he does someone's going to take a swing at it.

I'm actually a non owner now but the boat still lives at my place and I still reckon it's a great all round boat. Probably Ian's best all round design and even then there were weaknesses. Eg catastrophic failure in production beams. The new ones came from Corsair on Farriers suggestion and there has been no sign of failure in the flanges after 6 years of brutal racing. Even Shaun has had catastrophic beam failure on his Production F31. When your designs have had that sort of problem you are best to keep mum about anyone else's designs or production.

Putting a mast out that breaks and claiming after the event that you new it would is just BS. If that's the case you need to put your cards on the table before the event.

While we're at it tell your boss that canning the opposition just drags down the whole multihull market and that's something we don't need. If he thinks his order book is good then he must be green with envy at Weta's.

Send me some more of your gear. For medicinal purposes only.

I don't like to get in this mess, but as a guy that has boat #6 f-22, Ian made a visit to Texas a few months ago. While he was here he asked if I wanted to meet with him and if I had any questions that I wanted to ask. Of course I had a lot of questions being new to farrier designs. One of which was what was the weight difference between the all carbon mast and an aluminum mast. He could not give me an answer at that time because he said he had purposely built boat #1 with a super light mast and thought it would fail and I would have to wait on that answer once all the testing was done.

 

I just wanted to put it out there, that he did indeed build the first very light.

 

1airborne

f22 #226

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So when all else fails, and one has no arguments or substance, start the personal attacks.

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

That is just plain insulting - I don't smoke, have never smoked, and hardly every drink. I suspect you do not even have the integrity to apologize.

I'm actually a non owner now but the boat still lives at my place and I still reckon it's a great all round boat. Probably Ian's best all round design and even then there were weaknesses. Eg catastrophic failure in production beams.

Your beams were built by OSTAC which was owned by the same guy who was eventually given Corsair ($1 down), and who I finally had to give up on. There were too many ongoing problems with the OSTAC production quality control at that time to where I eventually had to release beam plans so that builders could build their own, not one of which has failed to my knowledge, not one. It seems home builders can do a very good job.

The new ones came from Corsair on Farriers suggestion and there has been no sign of failure in the flanges after 6 years of brutal racing. Even Shaun has had catastrophic beam failure on his Production F31. When your designs have had that sort of problem you are best to keep mum about anyone else's designs or production.

You should be bagging the people who built your original beams. I was able to keep a much closer eye on the Corsair built beams, plus they were built by people I had trained, under the quality control system that I had set up, and which was still in place at that time. The Corsair beams were built to the exact same specifications as your original beams.

While we're at it tell your boss that canning the opposition just drags down the whole multihull market and that's something we don't need
.

Reporting things as they happened is not bagging anyone, it is just the truth, and it sure sounds like you do not like the truth. Such reports are usually always in response to my designs being bagged or false claims being made, and my reports are always backed up by facts.
The real things that drag the whole multihull market down are over powered inefficient boats that capsize everywhere, boats that fall apart offshore, and badly designed boats that cannot even fold properly, or worse, fall apart - two copies even had floats fall off on their first sail. I have all the facts, and photos, and happy to make them available if you wish, but you will not like it.
You are the expert on bagging others Peter, or is it Madaboutmultis, the instant 'one day poster' since disappeared? Still nothing more on that claimed second 'failure' while attempting to bribe F-22 customers to buy something else.
If all you can do is abuse or denigrate, then it just reflects on you. I have even had people emailing me from South Australia apologizing for you.
Ian Farrier
Farrier Marine
Designs That work

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Lets change tack... he said she said nah nah na nah nah threads get pretty old fast.

 

 

 

On the subject of cruising I have to respectfully disagree that a small boat such as the F22 is "no good"

 

Coming from a TT720 perspective it is positively huge interior and yet our TT suits us fine for up to a week.

 

And the TT is huge and has better facilities (porta pottie, icebox, comfy bed etc) when compared to our 2 man tent and back packing gear which I have also spent more than a week in. Its all relative. The back porch on all three is the same size and that is where I spend most of my time.

 

Size is only an issue if your company is unpleasant... and some boats will never be big enough!

 

 

Just sayin......

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I don't like to get in this mess, but as a guy that has boat #6 f-22, Ian made a visit to Texas a few months ago. While he was here he asked if I wanted to meet with him and if I had any questions that I wanted to ask.

 

The main question is "Where is my fucking boat???"

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I don't like to get in this mess, but as a guy that has boat #6 f-22, Ian made a visit to Texas a few months ago. While he was here he asked if I wanted to meet with him and if I had any questions that I wanted to ask.

 

The main question is "Where is my fucking boat???"

No 6 is here

post-18231-0-78269700-1407190677_thumb.jpg

here

post-18231-0-32556100-1407190695_thumb.jpg

here

post-18231-0-21484100-1407190719_thumb.jpg

and here

post-18231-0-27911800-1407190736_thumb.jpg

 

Just a little assembly is required. However we do like to build

boats very well, so some patience is involved….

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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I don't like to get in this mess, but as a guy that has boat #6 f-22, Ian made a visit to Texas a few months ago. While he was here he asked if I wanted to meet with him and if I had any questions that I wanted to ask.

 

The main question is "Where is my fucking boat???"

No 6 is here

attachicon.gifNo6Hull.jpg

here

attachicon.gifNo.6Deck.jpg

here

attachicon.gifNo6Beams.jpg

and here

attachicon.gifNo6Float.jpg

 

Just a little assembly is required. However we do like to build

boats very well, so some patience is involved….

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Thank you very much Ian! I can't believe it will be here so soon.

 

1airborne

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I don't like to get in this mess, but as a guy that has boat #6 f-22, Ian made a visit to Texas a few months ago. While he was here he asked if I wanted to meet with him and if I had any questions that I wanted to ask.

 

The main question is "Where is my fucking boat???"

No 6 is here

attachicon.gifNo6Hull.jpg

here

attachicon.gifNo.6Deck.jpg

here

attachicon.gifNo6Beams.jpg

and here

attachicon.gifNo6Float.jpg

 

Just a little assembly is required. However we do like to build

boats very well, so some patience is involved….

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Thank you very much Ian! I can't believe it will be here so soon.

 

1airborne

 

Still a way to go yet, but we are getting there, and getting quick and quicker. Just many small details still to be sorted properly, which is just how it is when setting up any new production boat.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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So when all else fails, and one has no arguments or substance, start the personal attacks.

 

 

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

 

I don't smoke, have never smoked, and hardly every drink. I suspect you do not even have the integrity to apologize.

 

 

 

 

I am truly sorry Ian. Your boats are AMAZING, but your ego could use a bit of herbal chillaxing.

Sent with love and admiration.

 

-Brian Charette (name given as proof of identity...)

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So when all else fails, and one has no arguments or substance, start the personal attacks.

 

 

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

 

That is just plain insulting - I don't smoke, have never smoked, and hardly every drink. I suspect you do not even have the integrity to apologize.

I'm actually a non owner now but the boat still lives at my place and I still reckon it's a great all round boat. Probably Ian's best all round design and even then there were weaknesses. Eg catastrophic failure in production beams.

 

Your beams were built by OSTAC which was owned by the same guy who was eventually given Corsair ($1 down), and who I finally had to give up on. There were too many ongoing problems with the OSTAC production quality control at that time to where I eventually had to release beam plans so that builders could build their own, not one of which has failed to my knowledge, not one. It seems home builders can do a very good job.

The new ones came from Corsair on Farriers suggestion and there has been no sign of failure in the flanges after 6 years of brutal racing. Even Shaun has had catastrophic beam failure on his Production F31. When your designs have had that sort of problem you are best to keep mum about anyone else's designs or production.

 

You should be bagging the people who built your original beams. I was able to keep a much closer eye on the Corsair built beams, plus they were built by people I had trained, under the quality control system that I had set up, and which was still in place at that time. The Corsair beams were built to the exact same specifications as your original beams.

While we're at it tell your boss that canning the opposition just drags down the whole multihull market and that's something we don't need.

 

Reporting things as they happened is not bagging anyone, it is just the truth, and it sure sounds like you do not like the truth. Such reports are usually always in response to my designs being bagged or false claims being made, and my reports are always backed up by facts.

 

The real things that drag the whole multihull market down are over powered inefficient boats that capsize everywhere, boats that fall apart offshore, and badly designed boats that cannot even fold properly, or worse, fall apart - two copies even had floats fall off on their first sail. I have all the facts, and photos, and happy to make them available if you wish, but you will not like it.

You are the expert on bagging others Peter, or is it Madaboutmultis, the instant 'one day poster' since disappeared? Still nothing more on that claimed second 'failure' while attempting to bribe F-22 customers to buy something else.

 

 

If all you can do is abuse or denigrate, then it just reflects on you. I have even had people emailing me from South Australia apologizing for you.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs That work

 

 

 

You need help Ian. Seriously.

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You need help Ian. Seriously.

Goldy

 

If you wanted someone to design a boat for you to launch your family out into the Tasman Sea, around Cape Hatteras or the Shetland Islands, would you chose a designer that says the right thing to be popular, says nothing at all or someone that is totally pedantic about the facts and won't have it any other way? Would it matter if you didn't particularly get on with this designer?

 

[i am about to be put right for mentioning offshore sailing in an F-22 thread - BUT I AM HAPPY TO PUT UP WITH IT!]

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So when all else fails, and one has no arguments or substance, start the personal attacks.

 

 

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

 

That is just plain insulting - I don't smoke, have never smoked, and hardly every drink. I suspect you do not even have the integrity to apologize.

I'm actually a non owner now but the boat still lives at my place and I still reckon it's a great all round boat. Probably Ian's best all round design and even then there were weaknesses. Eg catastrophic failure in production beams.

 

Your beams were built by OSTAC which was owned by the same guy who was eventually given Corsair ($1 down), and who I finally had to give up on. There were too many ongoing problems with the OSTAC production quality control at that time to where I eventually had to release beam plans so that builders could build their own, not one of which has failed to my knowledge, not one. It seems home builders can do a very good job.

The new ones came from Corsair on Farriers suggestion and there has been no sign of failure in the flanges after 6 years of brutal racing. Even Shaun has had catastrophic beam failure on his Production F31. When your designs have had that sort of problem you are best to keep mum about anyone else's designs or production.

 

You should be bagging the people who built your original beams. I was able to keep a much closer eye on the Corsair built beams, plus they were built by people I had trained, under the quality control system that I had set up, and which was still in place at that time. The Corsair beams were built to the exact same specifications as your original beams.

While we're at it tell your boss that canning the opposition just drags down the whole multihull market and that's something we don't need.

 

Reporting things as they happened is not bagging anyone, it is just the truth, and it sure sounds like you do not like the truth. Such reports are usually always in response to my designs being bagged or false claims being made, and my reports are always backed up by facts.

 

The real things that drag the whole multihull market down are over powered inefficient boats that capsize everywhere, boats that fall apart offshore, and badly designed boats that cannot even fold properly, or worse, fall apart - two copies even had floats fall off on their first sail. I have all the facts, and photos, and happy to make them available if you wish, but you will not like it.

You are the expert on bagging others Peter, or is it Madaboutmultis, the instant 'one day poster' since disappeared? Still nothing more on that claimed second 'failure' while attempting to bribe F-22 customers to buy something else.

 

 

If all you can do is abuse or denigrate, then it just reflects on you. I have even had people emailing me from South Australia apologizing for you.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs That work

 

 

You need help Ian. Seriously.

 

Yet another personal attack Peter, or Goldfinger, or is it MadAboutMultis?

 

All you seem to have are just numerous insults, or worse, false posts.

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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Hey Lighthouse how is that Sprint 750 mk 11 you bought June 2012 doing?

 

:)

 

Doing very very well. Just suffering this year from a rainy period formerly known as summer, but that's not the boat's fault.

I am getting more and more used to it every time I go sailing, although still far from being an expert.

 

Really happy with my choice.

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So when all else fails, and one has no arguments or substance, start the personal attacks.

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

That is just plain insulting - I don't smoke, have never smoked, and hardly every drink. I suspect you do not even have the integrity to apologize. I'm actually a non owner now but the boat still lives at my place and I still reckon it's a great all round boat. Probably Ian's best all round design and even then there were weaknesses. Eg catastrophic failure in production beams.

Your beams were built by OSTAC which was owned by the same guy who was eventually given Corsair ($1 down), and who I finally had to give up on. There were too many ongoing problems with the OSTAC production quality control at that time to where I eventually had to release beam plans so that builders could build their own, not one of which has failed to my knowledge, not one. It seems home builders can do a very good job.The new ones came from Corsair on Farriers suggestion and there has been no sign of failure in the flanges after 6 years of brutal racing. Even Shaun has had catastrophic beam failure on his Production F31. When your designs have had that sort of problem you are best to keep mum about anyone else's designs or production.

You should be bagging the people who built your original beams. I was able to keep a much closer eye on the Corsair built beams, plus they were built by people I had trained, under the quality control system that I had set up, and which was still in place at that time. The Corsair beams were built to the exact same specifications as your original beams.While we're at it tell your boss that canning the opposition just drags down the whole multihull market and that's something we don't need.

Reporting things as they happened is not bagging anyone, it is just the truth, and it sure sounds like you do not like the truth. Such reports are usually always in response to my designs being bagged or false claims being made, and my reports are always backed up by facts.

 

The real things that drag the whole multihull market down are over powered inefficient boats that capsize everywhere, boats that fall apart offshore, and badly designed boats that cannot even fold properly, or worse, fall apart - two copies even had floats fall off on their first sail. I have all the facts, and photos, and happy to make them available if you wish, but you will not like it.

You are the expert on bagging others Peter, or is it Madaboutmultis, the instant 'one day poster' since disappeared? Still nothing more on that claimed second 'failure' while attempting to bribe F-22 customers to buy something else.

If all you can do is abuse or denigrate, then it just reflects on you. I have even had people emailing me from South Australia apologizing for you.

Ian Farrier

Farrier MarineDesigns That work

 

 

You need help Ian. Seriously.

Yet another personal attack Peter, or Goldfinger, or is it MadAboutMultis?

 

All you seem to have are just numerous insults, or worse, false posts.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Ian people who act as defensively as you do are usually trying to deflect attention from themselves. I know a lot more about you than you think so why don't you just ignore me and make everyone happy.

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Ian people who act as defensively as you do are usually trying to deflect attention from themselves. I know a lot more about you than you think so why don't you just ignore me and make everyone happy.

 

 

 

 

 

Look this is Anarchy and there is no requirement to make any sense with what you say

 

It's never too late to make a start on turning that mantra around.

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oohhh uuuhhhh I bet Ian is shivering in his pants right now ....

somebody knows more about him than himself ....

some far away darkside....????

 

sockpuppets galore ....

 

take it as a compliment Ian ... seems like some folks are really afraid ..maybe they should ... lol

 

guys...

all I can say is that the F 22 is a grown up boat with many many refinements and clever ideas ... let this latest barage of highschool antics not get in the way of enjoying the development of a new class of 22 trimarans.

 

Lets act as grown up, refined and positive as the F22 is.

 

Thor

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After a nice weekend of cruising Moreton Bay in the boat now that it is becoming more comfortable, I have some stuff to share for those interested.

 

My wife and I headed across from Shorncliffe on Friday to Moreton Island sandhills for lunch with wind picking up to15 knots SE for a quick trip using the new autohelm all the way. After lunch there, the wind was still a bit too southerly to stay the night comfortably so we negotiated the shallow seagrass channels with board up and rudder nearly all the way up into Days Gutter for a calmer place for the night. A bridle from the outer ends of the beams, 8 metres of chain and a Manson Supreme 15 lb anchor secured a good sleep in a fair bit of current with the full moon weekend. My wife and I agree that the bow double is the roomiest trimaran berth we have slept in, with nice space to sit up and read at night with the led strip lights I just added. The boat is still little and there is the usual shuffle of gear from cooking to sleeping to sailing modes, but like many others in these boats we love tripping around in little tents, and little boats like this are huge compared to that. My thoughts all weekend were of the clever marketing that described the F/C 24 as a pocket cruiser, well I reckon I now have a "deep pocket cruiser". There was plenty of room under the cockpit for our 3 man inflatable kayak, loo and boom tent. The big esky goes on the port seat against the board case, still no cushions yet. I made a typical Corsair table which slides onto the centreboard case, and we cooked on the portable butane stove either in the cockpit or the seats inside. The sink is one of those cool plastic/rubber things that fold flat and it stores with all the other galley stuff in the aft storage areas of each seat. Our bags go on the floor around the board case. Water is still in bottles in the cockpit lockers decanted from a big container in the floats. Solar hot water bladder sits on the nets with the 20 watt panel.

post-10329-0-95658800-1407669401_thumb.jpg Days Gutter in the dark

post-10329-0-07528800-1407669419_thumb.jpg Easy sailing

 

 

On Saturday morning we headed south and across the inside of the infamous South Passage Bar to get close to land at North Stradbroke Island. Unfurling the cruising jib in this mode with low revs on the motor and good wind coming over the island was very pleasant for cruising the short distances we intended to cover Saturday. We met some old sailing mates at Myora and in a mode never tried before, backed up to a Jenneau, grabbed a stern line and jumped on their boat for a coffee. It did look a bit strange, but was convenient and relatively safe. Then it was off to meet the MYCQ club cruise guys at the One Mile for dinner and a shower on land.

 

post-10329-0-10700900-1407669432_thumb.jpg No comments please

post-10329-0-47588300-1407669457_thumb.jpg Sunset over Australia

post-10329-0-86685400-1407669468_thumb.jpg Inside is still a bit rough, but homely

 

Today we headed off under jib again to the paradise known as Horseshoe Bay on Peel Island for a swim and a photo session for the rock star boat. The bay glassed out after that as we headed for a big return trip north, but a light seabreeze nearly on the nose allowed us to sail home under screacher for most of the trip without having to tack at all (all weekend in fact!).

post-10329-0-47234100-1407669486_thumb.jpgpost-10329-0-09086600-1407669515_thumb.jpg For the Brochure?

 

I was under instruction from the kiwi Boss to video the latest version of the mainsail raising and lowering so here they are totally unedited and in real time. With no boom to slow the process down, it really IS that easy, almost a joke, and I am no athlete.

Up

Down

 

And as a special feature for the viewers I wandered around the boat again today with gopro on head while all sails were set and the auto was doing the work. It really was too good a day to keep to myself.

 

Peter

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So when all else fails, and one has no arguments or substance, start the personal attacks.

That was some great hooch Pete. Must be the same stuff Ian smokes.

I don't smoke, have never smoked, and hardly every drink. I suspect you do not even have the integrity to apologize.

I am truly sorry Ian. Your boats are AMAZING, but your ego could use a bit of herbal chillaxing.

Sent with love and admiration.

-Brian Charette (name given as proof of identity...)

Just read your post Brian and it's the funniest thing since Ian sailed a Tramp solo in 55 kts with full sail up and then put in a reef at the top mark. He might not smoke but you don't hallucinate like that from drinking milk and eating vanilla cup cakes.

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After a nice weekend of cruising Moreton Bay in the boat now that it is becoming more comfortable, I have some stuff to share for those interested.

 

My wife and I headed across from Shorncliffe on Friday to Moreton Island sandhills for lunch with wind picking up to15 knots SE for a quick trip using the new autohelm all the way. After lunch there, the wind was still a bit too southerly to stay the night comfortably so we negotiated the shallow seagrass channels with board up and rudder nearly all the way up into Days Gutter for a calmer place for the night. A bridle from the outer ends of the beams, 8 metres of chain and a Manson Supreme 15 lb anchor secured a good sleep in a fair bit of current with the full moon weekend. My wife and I agree that the bow double is the roomiest trimaran berth we have slept in, with nice space to sit up and read at night with the led strip lights I just added. The boat is still little and there is the usual shuffle of gear from cooking to sleeping to sailing modes, but like many others in these boats we love tripping around in little tents, and little boats like this are huge compared to that. My thoughts all weekend were of the clever marketing that described the F/C 24 as a pocket cruiser, well I reckon I now have a "deep pocket cruiser". There was plenty of room under the cockpit for our 3 man inflatable kayak, loo and boom tent. The big esky goes on the port seat against the board case, still no cushions yet. I made a typical Corsair table which slides onto the centreboard case, and we cooked on the portable butane stove either in the cockpit or the seats inside. The sink is one of those cool plastic/rubber things that fold flat and it stores with all the other galley stuff in the aft storage areas of each seat. Our bags go on the floor around the board case. Water is still in bottles in the cockpit lockers decanted from a big container in the floats. Solar hot water bladder sits on the nets with the 20 watt panel.

[ Easy sailing

 

 

On Saturday morning we headed south and across the inside of the infamous South Passage Bar to get close to land at North Stradbroke Island. Unfurling the cruising jib in this mode with low revs on the motor and good wind coming over the island was very pleasant for cruising the short distances we intended to cover Saturday. We met some old sailing mates at Myora and in a mode never tried before, backed up to a Jenneau, grabbed a stern line and jumped on their boat for a coffee. It did look a bit strange, but was convenient and relatively safe. Then it was off to meet the MYCQ club cruise guys at the One Mile for dinner and a shower on land.

 

[ Inside is still a bit rough, but homely

 

Today we headed off under jib again to the paradise known as Horseshoe Bay on Peel Island for a swim and a photo session for the rock star boat. The bay glassed out after that as we headed for a big return trip north, but a light seabreeze nearly on the nose allowed us to sail home under screacher for most of the trip without having to tack at all (all weekend in fact!).

[=209523]DSCF3620low.jpg[/url]attachicon.gifDSCF3617low.jpg For the Brochure?

 

I was under instruction from the kiwi Boss to video the latest version of the mainsail raising and lowering so here they are totally unedited and in real time. With no boom to slow the process down, it really IS that easy, almost a joke, and I am no athlete.

Up

Down

 

And as a special feature for the viewers I wandered around the boat again today with gopro on head while all sails were set and the auto was doing the work. It really was too good a day to keep to myself.

 

Peter

 

Pete the conditions look pretty benign. When are you going to post the videos of the sail raising and lowering in 20 kts with a decent sea running.

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Peter, thanks for the pictures and video!

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Pete

How do manage luff tension with the roller-furling boomless main or is it a non-issue?

JT

 

I'll answer for Pete, as obviously he will be all tired out from all that hard cruising over the weekend…..

 

Luff tension has been one of the tricky areas to resolve, and you can see the ugly wrinkle we had there on early trials, when using a traditional cunningham:

 

post-18231-0-50276100-1407698987_thumb.jpg

 

Ugly and annoying! We soon found that the furling shaft attachment to luff needed to be floating to allow luff tension adjustment, plus the tensioning tackle was better acting on the tack rather than as a Cunningham. Fortunately there was enough room on the molded carbon foot for this, and the whole luff can then be smooth and wrinkle free. The same tackle can also be used for reefing. Still some improvements to go, and these are being incorporated in future masts, so that the whole luff is easy to tension, and be effective.

 

There is also a good video of a boomless F-25C main racing at speed at :

 

http://vimeo.com/102564400

Note how the mast has rotated itself - there are no rotation controls being used. Could have been a bit faster with more rotation forced on, but who cares, 19 - 20 knots is plenty fast enough for most. Plus the only boat to beat them was a much bigger Formula 40 (also with a boomless main)

 

http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/content.php?4597-2014-YRA-2nd-Half-Opener-A-Bonita-Blast

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

 

 

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Pete

How do manage luff tension with the roller-furling boomless main or is it a non-issue?

JT

 

I'll answer for Pete, as obviously he will be all tired out from all that hard cruising over the weekend…..

 

Luff tension has been one of the tricky areas to resolve, and you can see the ugly wrinkle we had there on early trials, when using a traditional cunningham:

 

attachicon.gifCunninghamF-22.jpg

 

Ugly and annoying! We soon found that the furling shaft attachment to luff needed to be floating to allow luff tension adjustment, plus the tensioning tackle was better acting on the tack rather than as a Cunningham. Fortunately there was enough room on the molded carbon foot for this, and the whole luff can then be smooth and wrinkle free. The same tackle can also be used for reefing. Still some improvements to go, and these are being incorporated in future masts, so that the whole luff is easy to tension, and be effective.

Amazed that you started with the traditional cunningham. I ditched that idea in 1981 on my SeaWind 24. Traditional cunningham is a relic from the days of fixed foot fixed luff length sails. Boomless or with a boom floating tack is the efficient way to go, making use of all the sail area.

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Pete

How do manage luff tension with the roller-furling boomless main or is it a non-issue?

JT

 

I'll answer for Pete, as obviously he will be all tired out from all that hard cruising over the weekend…..

 

Luff tension has been one of the tricky areas to resolve, and you can see the ugly wrinkle we had there on early trials, when using a traditional cunningham:

 

attachicon.gifCunninghamF-22.jpg

 

Ugly and annoying! We soon found that the furling shaft attachment to luff needed to be floating to allow luff tension adjustment, plus the tensioning tackle was better acting on the tack rather than as a Cunningham. Fortunately there was enough room on the molded carbon foot for this, and the whole luff can then be smooth and wrinkle free. The same tackle can also be used for reefing. Still some improvements to go, and these are being incorporated in future masts, so that the whole luff is easy to tension, and be effective.

Amazed that you started with the traditional cunningham. I ditched that idea in 1981 on my SeaWind 24. Traditional cunningham is a relic from the days of fixed foot fixed luff length sails. Boomless or with a boom floating tack is the efficient way to go, making use of all the sail area.

 

Remember that a roller furling boomless main was the intention, not just a boomless main, so main was initially setup with all possible options to try just in case, as I was not quite sure how it would all work out. It also had to be easily reefable, so a cunningham style tackle was always in the picture. First system used was nothing, then the old standby cunningham eye was tried, then we moved to the tack system once we could get a reasonable amount of 'float' at the 'gooseneck' (which is not really a gooseneck) plus this 'gooseneck' still had to be able to roll the main. Now, depending on yet another alternative being looked at, in conjunction with the foot mounted clutches (which work so well), we may even go back to nothing again.

 

All just part of the development process, and I have always found it important to try all sorts of things, no matter how whacky. But at least we now have this:

 

Up

Down

 

Right now it works as good as the F-27 roller furling system, making it very easy to handle the sail and put it away, and better, there is no heavy boom weighing it down.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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I was under instruction from the kiwi Boss to video the latest version of the mainsail raising and lowering so here they are totally unedited and in real time. With no boom to slow the process down, it really IS that easy, almost a joke, and I am no athlete.

Up

Down

 

And as a special feature for the viewers I wandered around the boat again today with gopro on head while all sails were set and the auto was doing the work. It really was too good a day to keep to myself.

 

Peter

Pete the conditions look pretty benign. When are you going to post the videos of the sail raising and lowering in 20 kts with a decent sea running.

You are one demanding fella Peter, but I will do what I can. Benign was beautiful, and this is the first time I have taken out my gopro for this boat, so that is it for now. In wind I can can assure you the main goes up just as easy with winch needed for last metre, and it comes down faster. The F-27 was fantastic with roller furling and convinced me to never go stranglejacks again on a boat under 30', and on this boat with no boom it is easier again. The dimensions of the package make it a no-brainer.

There are other gains here as well. After years of watching mainsails with lazyjacks degrade along crease lines as you squeeze the main into the cover, it is so nice to watch every mylar molecule smile as the sail gets furled into a tight cylinder with one velcro secured batten removed. Then you can just fire the topping lift and even the front split pin and either toss the main completely on the nets or just the clew out there out of the way. Very rarely would I have done that with the old antiquated stuff. I have not even bothered to make a boom cover yet, I just slit a hole in the end of the sausage bag. Fire both clew snapshackles, slide the bag on from the aft end, and then reconnect when the spinny thing comes out the back. My crew still giggle at how easy it all is.

 

In the meantime, can you film and post here the cussing and swearing in real time of rigging and unrigging your old boomed system with the strings and slugs needing to be threaded and unthreaded. 20 knots please.

 

Peter H

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Pete

How do manage luff tension with the roller-furling boomless main or is it a non-issue?

JT

HI, Ian has addressed this also, and it is a work in progress which we have tried many combinations of hardware to improve.

The mainsail is a very rigid and fairly flat sail with very little luff stretch so far, so we have needed very little cunningham anyway, but still needed of course on the racetrack.

For cruising, there is enough freedom in the connecting shackle that we have not needed any more cunningham than what is shown in the video.

For racing we tried bigger shackles, rope connection, quicklink, but the easiest was like what Nuddy said, forget the old gooseneck and cunningham thinking. We just fired the quickpin connection and let the whole gooseneck/front of batten/thingy float and the issue went away. The crew member who fired the pin just kept it in his pocket and returned it at end of sailing for furling. A little crude but works well.

It feels like this method allowed the delta under the "boom" to apply downward force to help tension the leach also, which made it easier to sheet the mainsail like on a Cirrostratus or sailboard sail. No data on that, just a feeling.

 

As I said, a work in progress, but it just feels right. No crew member has had a bruised head yet from any flying boom.

 

Peter H

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Peter I believe your boat and the Jenne in pic one are trying to scissor. Look it up, just not at work. Looks like a nice little trip though!

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I was under instruction from the kiwi Boss to video the latest version of the mainsail raising and lowering so here they are totally unedited and in real time. With no boom to slow the process down, it really IS that easy, almost a joke, and I am no athlete.

Up

Down

 

And as a special feature for the viewers I wandered around the boat again today with gopro on head while all sails were set and the auto was doing the work. It really was too good a day to keep to myself.

 

Peter

 

Pete the conditions look pretty benign. When are you going to post the videos of the sail raising and lowering in 20 kts with a decent sea running.

You are one demanding fella Peter, but I will do what I can. Benign was beautiful, and this is the first time I have taken out my gopro for this boat, so that is it for now. In wind I can can assure you the main goes up just as easy with winch needed for last metre, and it comes down faster. The F-27 was fantastic with roller furling and convinced me to never go stranglejacks again on a boat under 30', and on this boat with no boom it is easier again. The dimensions of the package make it a no-brainer.

There are other gains here as well. After years of watching mainsails with lazyjacks degrade along crease lines as you squeeze the main into the cover, it is so nice to watch every mylar molecule smile as the sail gets furled into a tight cylinder with one velcro secured batten removed. Then you can just fire the topping lift and even the front split pin and either toss the main completely on the nets or just the clew out there out of the way. Very rarely would I have done that with the old antiquated stuff. I have not even bothered to make a boom cover yet, I just slit a hole in the end of the sausage bag. Fire both clew snapshackles, slide the bag on from the aft end, and then reconnect when the spinny thing comes out the back. My crew still giggle at how easy it all is.

 

In the meantime, can you film and post here the cussing and swearing in real time of rigging and unrigging your old boomed system with the strings and slugs needing to be threaded and unthreaded. 20 knots please.

 

Peter H

Pete it was a genuine request. I'm not doubting that it can be done just how easy it is. In particular I noted that the main sheet tackle was unhooked from the clew and re hooked in the furling position and from experience I know that trying to hold onto the end of a flogging sail in strong winds can be more than difficult and quite hazardous. Obviously smaller sails are easier to handle and the problems are excacerbated with larger sail areas. As I've said before my concerns with Roller furling relate to similar conditions and boats with more sail area than the 22 or 27. I have a friend whose still threatening to sue me for the broken wrist he suffered when the furling handle kicked back on him in a 20 to 25 kt breeze. It was that incident that prompted me to dice the roller furling and go to lazy jacks and a bag.

Ps. Got your message.

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I was under instruction from the kiwi Boss to video the latest version of the mainsail raising and lowering so here they are totally unedited and in real time. With no boom to slow the process down, it really IS that easy, almost a joke, and I am no athlete.

Up

Down

 

And as a special feature for the viewers I wandered around the boat again today with gopro on head while all sails were set and the auto was doing the work. It really was too good a day to keep to myself.

 

Peter

Pete the conditions look pretty benign. When are you going to post the videos of the sail raising and lowering in 20 kts with a decent sea running.

You are one demanding fella Peter, but I will do what I can. Benign was beautiful, and this is the first time I have taken out my gopro for this boat, so that is it for now. In wind I can can assure you the main goes up just as easy with winch needed for last metre, and it comes down faster. The F-27 was fantastic with roller furling and convinced me to never go stranglejacks again on a boat under 30', and on this boat with no boom it is easier again. The dimensions of the package make it a no-brainer.

There are other gains here as well. After years of watching mainsails with lazyjacks degrade along crease lines as you squeeze the main into the cover, it is so nice to watch every mylar molecule smile as the sail gets furled into a tight cylinder with one velcro secured batten removed. Then you can just fire the topping lift and even the front split pin and either toss the main completely on the nets or just the clew out there out of the way. Very rarely would I have done that with the old antiquated stuff. I have not even bothered to make a boom cover yet, I just slit a hole in the end of the sausage bag. Fire both clew snapshackles, slide the bag on from the aft end, and then reconnect when the spinny thing comes out the back. My crew still giggle at how easy it all is.

 

In the meantime, can you film and post here the cussing and swearing in real time of rigging and unrigging your old boomed system with the strings and slugs needing to be threaded and unthreaded. 20 knots please.

 

Peter H

Pete it was a genuine request. I'm not doubting that it can be done just how easy it is. In particular I noted that the main sheet tackle was unhooked from the clew and re hooked in the furling position and from experience I know that trying to hold onto the end of a flogging sail in strong winds can be more than difficult and quite hazardous. Obviously smaller sails are easier to handle and the problems are excacerbated with larger sail areas. As I've said before my concerns with Roller furling relate to similar conditions and boats with more sail area than the 22 or 27. I have a friend whose still threatening to sue me for the broken wrist he suffered when the furling handle kicked back on him in a 20 to 25 kt breeze. It was that incident that prompted me to dice the roller furling and go to lazy jacks and a bag.

Ps. Got your message.

Yeah, the furling handle has to be respected like the trailer winch handle.

The location of all the busy bits is debatable and for roller furling the 27 I had a small block at end of boom which was quickly hitched up before you furled and mainsheet did not need to be moved. You are right in that balancing out the back of the 27 was occasionally an itchy moment in a swell.

 

On the 22 the load is a fraction of that, so is easy to hitch up. The "boom" is short and light and can be easily reached without hanging over water. Ian originally had an adjustable topper on the mast which transferred the business up top there, and worked fine. For simplicity I like both busy bits at the back but either can be done. Firing the mainsail clew shackle to furl is very easy, and attaching it to start the day sailing is a little harder but we are getting better at it. It might even be achievable with a Nacra style hook.

 

None of these systems would have been much fun at Airlie on the first day, sounds like they copped a flogging and the sail lofts are still catching up.

 

Peter

 

Peter I believe your boat and the Jenne in pic one are trying to scissor. Look it up, just not at work. Looks like a nice little trip though!

Definitely looked obscene, and would only do it in sheltered anchorage for short time with flat water.

Peter

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Thanks Peter, for sharing pics and videos. These little trimarans are so nice boats!

Glad it is liked. I am obviously in propaganda mode, but am getting a lot of requests for the little details and this is the easiest way for me to get it out there, warts and all, occasionally getting a negative response.

It is a tough job but someone has to do it!

Peter

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Pete it was a genuine request. I'm not doubting that it can be done just how easy it is. In particular I noted that the main sheet tackle was unhooked from the clew and re hooked in the furling position and from experience I know that trying to hold onto the end of a flogging sail in strong winds can be more than difficult and quite hazardous. Obviously smaller sails are easier to handle and the problems are excacerbated with larger sail areas. As I've said before my concerns with Roller furling relate to similar conditions and boats with more sail area than the 22 or 27. I have a friend whose still threatening to sue me for the broken wrist he suffered when the furling handle kicked back on him in a 20 to 25 kt breeze. It was that incident that prompted me to dice the roller furling and go to lazy jacks and a bag.

Ps. Got your message.

Yeah, the furling handle has to be respected like the trailer winch handle.

The location of all the busy bits is debatable and for roller furling the 27 I had a small block at end of boom which was quickly hitched up before you furled and mainsheet did not need to be moved. You are right in that balancing out the back of the 27 was occasionally an itchy moment in a swell.

 

On the 22 the load is a fraction of that, so is easy to hitch up. The "boom" is short and light and can be easily reached without hanging over water. Ian originally had an adjustable topper on the mast which transferred the business up top there, and worked fine. For simplicity I like both busy bits at the back but either can be done. Firing the mainsail clew shackle to furl is very easy, and attaching it to start the day sailing is a little harder but we are getting better at it. It might even be achievable with a Nacra style hook.

 

None of these systems would have been much fun at Airlie on the first day, sounds like they copped a flogging and the sail lofts are still catching up.

 

Peter

Whoops, just read this again and realised I had not responded clearly enough to the "hold on to the end of a flogging sail" part of the question Pete. In fact there is never a flogging sail in this new system. There is/are either one (when furling, unfurling, not sailing) or two (sailing) mainsheet snapshackles attached to the clew at all times, so there is actually less chance of any injury than from a flogging boom due to less momentum IMHO. When reefing the second snap goes directly to the reefing point.

 

post-10329-0-97317700-1407795089.jpg

 

 

Peter

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PeterH this looks good but I think I am missing something - hopefully you can clear it up:

 

The snap shackle on the "boom batten" can swivel so stays connected while the sail is furled/unfurled?

The second snap shackle is then connected to the clew board in the position that suits the conditions?

 

This bit I am missing is as Goldfinger pointed out, does this mean that you have to attach the mainsheet to the clew board with the sail "free" or at least mainsheet loose enough to allow manipulation?

 

I am sure there is a clever work around on this that I haven't spotted yet.

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OK, you would think if I was a teacher I would be better at this, part of the problem is coming up with names for all this new stuff!

 

In the amended diagram below, snap one stays always on the bottom of the swivelled plate, and the topping lift on the top of the plate.

 

While parked, that is the only attachment to the sheet blocks, with tension taken through the spectra strop.

Main goes up with mainsheet loosened from cleats but attached through 1. When up, you then lengthen topping lift and choose where you want to attach 2 for depth of sail you want without undoing 1.

If you want to change outhaul it is easy to move 2 during the race by holding clew with a short spare line temporarily, or one crew even leapfrogged 1 and 2 around all day, not approved by designer....

 

When main is about to come down, then you shorten topping lift and fire 2 again, even in strong winds and when reefing the day we blew the mast apart there was no flogging. 1 stays on all the time.

The videos above show it all pretty clearly.

Peter

 

post-10329-0-03413000-1407805464.jpg

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OK, you would think if I was a teacher I would be better at this, part of the problem is coming up with names for all this new stuff!

 

In the amended diagram below, snap one stays always on the bottom of the swivelled plate, and the topping lift on the top of the plate.

 

While parked, that is the only attachment to the sheet blocks, with tension taken through the spectra strop.

Main goes up with mainsheet loosened from cleats but attached through 1. When up, you then lengthen topping lift and choose where you want to attach 2 for depth of sail you want without undoing 1.

If you want to change outhaul it is easy to move 2 during the race by holding clew with a short spare line temporarily, or one crew even leapfrogged 1 and 2 around all day, not approved by designer....

 

When main is about to come down, then you shorten topping lift and fire 2 again, even in strong winds and when reefing the day we blew the mast apart there was no flogging. 1 stays on all the time.

The videos above show it all pretty clearly.

Peter

 

attachicon.gifclew.JPG

 

Basically the mainsail clew is never unrestrained, or free to flap around in the wind. One just chooses which attachment point one wants to use, by directing mainsheet to the appropriate snap shackle. Clew holes or reefing points are for sailing, swivel plate is for furling.

 

You can also sail with mainsheet connected to the swiveling plate only, as this is fairly strong, but remember it is primarily for furling only. Batten pocket here is super strong to allow for when batten may be misused as a boom, but best to connect mainsheet primary snap shackle to the desired hole in clew, which then takes all the load. Otherwise batten pocket stitching could be overloaded.

 

Reefing works the same way, disconnect snap from clew, leaving snap shackle on swiveling plate, which keeps main under control. Then roll up main to desired reefing point and reconnect clew snap shackle to a reefing strap or Loupe that is sewn into sail (no eye required). Your mainsheet is then directly connected to reefing point - quick, simple, and direct, while main is neatly rolled up and out of the way. No need for reefing ties.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs That Work

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That's sounds pretty straightforward but I can see how it could be a bit tricky to get #2 attached when you are in a chop and it's windy as it does look like you do need some slack in the mainsheet to get it on there.

If you could make the line between the mainsheet block and the #2 snap shackle "adjustable", then you would be able to have some tension on the mainsheet to hold everything steady while you attach #2 to the clew board and then tension it until the line going to 1 is slack... Maybe using a 2 to 1 starting from the main sheet block, through snap shackle #2 and back to a cleat/small clutch attached to the mainsheet block (that would probably require some custom bracket though, I can't think of an off-the shelf piece of hardware that would do that)?

This would add a bit of complexity and you would probably need a shock cord of some sort so that the free end wouldn't get sucked in the sheave but it would become really foolproof to do in any conditions.

 

I also noticed the threading of the cunnigham that looks like it could be streamlined by using a couple snap shackles but I understand this is still a work in progress!

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Yes to all, even a short line from #2 up through the clew board, great idea to try thanks. A big hook like Nacra is worth a trial too, just have to find the right hook as the clew board is a meaty thing.

Cunningham changes every few weeks, snaps would be good.

Thanks,

Peter

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Interesting... My first thought is a Y shaped line with three snap shackles. One to the batten end thingie, then the other two could be used to "walk" the clew board position where required.

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More about luff tension

Looking at the Up video, there appears to be a Heim joint on the furling shaft that is captured by a yoke formed by the plates on the

sides of the lower batten pocket. A horizontal pin connects the sail to the Heim joint. The ability to float up and down seems to be

pretty restricted. What if the axis of the pin was changed to vertical? A long pin held in a widemouthed yoke could now float up and

down within the Heim joint or whatever that pivot is giving a few inches of movement. Halyard and tack tension should take care of the

rest.

Not quite 2 cents.

JT

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More about luff tension

Looking at the Up video, there appears to be a Heim joint on the furling shaft that is captured by a yoke formed by the plates on the

sides of the lower batten pocket. A horizontal pin connects the sail to the Heim joint. The ability to float up and down seems to be

pretty restricted. What if the axis of the pin was changed to vertical? A long pin held in a widemouthed yoke could now float up and

down within the Heim joint or whatever that pivot is giving a few inches of movement. Halyard and tack tension should take care of the

rest.

Not quite 2 cents.

JT

 

Nice bit of lateral thinking, and I will take a look. Right now we have around 28mm vertical movement, which works, but 50mm would be better.

 

Tricky part is to ensure bottom batten and furling shaft are aligned automatically when one starts to furl, with batten on center of rotation and not offset too far, but I think this can be done.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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Tricky part is to ensure bottom batten and furling shaft are aligned automatically when one starts to furl, with batten on center of rotation and not offset too far, but I think this can be done.

A notched slide on one of the batten plates might work. Slide forward to center the Heim joint within the notch, slide back to allow full float.

JT

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Tricky part is to ensure bottom batten and furling shaft are aligned automatically when one starts to furl, with batten on center of rotation and not offset too far, but I think this can be done.

A notched slide on one of the batten plates might work. Slide forward to center the Heim joint within the notch, slide back to allow full float.

JT

 

Thanks, and another option, but too many extra parts, plus I try to avoid sliding bits in a marine environment. It must also be fully automatic, as it is now, as one does not want to be fumbling around trying to align the furling system on some dark and windy night, with cold fingers. One should be able to just let halyard go and start winding.

There are always many solutions to any problem, and I have now looked at probably 20 ways of doing the boomless gooseneck area, but so far the current system is easily the simplest and best. But another two alternatives now to test, including the vertical pin, to see if if it can be done even better.
However, while many things look promising in theory they usually don't pan out in practice, or are too complex. But always important to keep on looking and trying to improve where one can. It is one reason why the F-22 has taken so long to develop - the same old thing has no appeal, and there always has to be a way to do it better and easier.
post-18231-0-22412500-1407957577_thumb.jpg
An easy to furl main is always neat and tidy, and ready for instant use

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that Work

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Look who I found living the hard life in Horseshoe Bay, Peel Island. I would have stopped for a chat, but I was tacking my way through a crowded anchorage in 3 knots breeze on my Hobie 16.

 

Awesome looking boat, unfortunately Pete wasn't to keen on my offer of swapping my Hobie for his F22.....

 

P8310855.jpg

 

P8310856.jpg

 

P8310857.jpg

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Look who I found living the hard life in Horseshoe Bay, Peel Island. I would have stopped for a chat, but I was tacking my way through a crowded anchorage in 3 knots breeze on my Hobie 16.

 

Awesome looking boat, unfortunately Pete wasn't to keen on my offer of swapping my Hobie for his F22.....

 

 

 

 

 

P8310857.jpg

Thanks Dave!

You deserve a ride on the Boom!, message me and your younger muscles can pull the strings for us. The Hobies looked great weaving through the crowd on Sunday. We had paddled the kayak out to a mate anchored on a mono in the deeper water, something to do with them needing water under the leadmine keel?

 

We had another awesome cruise and after 4 days down the bay this time my wife is so comfortable on the boat she wants to go back as soon as the weather is nice again. With a bit of southerly still pushing yesterday afternoon, we moved from Horseshoe Bay around to the Lazarette and had another glassy night and morning in paradise. Only sleep disruption was a couple of fish hitting the boat, never had that before.

 

This pic was taken this morning from another boat while we were cleaning up after a nice long breakfast:post-10329-0-99359900-1409565309_thumb.jpg

 

And then when we were heading off I asked him to film the mainsail going up easily and it was up before his camera was on. You can see me attaching the mainsheet snapshackle to the clew board for a lightwind setting:post-10329-0-45099000-1409565502_thumb.jpg

 

The new dining table is working well. The new homebuilt composting toilet is awesome, no more chemicals for us. The 60 AHr lithium battery with only 20 watt panel came home full after driving plotter/sounder, radio, pilot with madman electronics new wireless remote, lights, charging tablets and phones, and pumping up the Tango Pro inflatable kayak.

 

And yes, this new job is working out pretty well.

 

Peter

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From the Lock Crowther Memorial Multihull Regatta 2014

 

Total elapsed times over 3 races:

The SPC 4 (Corsair Sprint Mk2, 24'): 6:40:56

Gumphy (plan built F-22R 23'): 7:05:14

Louie da Tri (Corsair Sprint Mk1, 24') 7:29:58

 

I think the production F-22R will be significantly quicker.

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"Ok, the next mark's that way!" Photo courtesy of Alison Guesdon, Pittwater Online Newsletter.

post-33238-0-39683400-1413101448_thumb.jpg

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From the Lock Crowther Memorial Multihull Regatta 2014

 

Total elapsed times over 3 races:

The SPC 4 (Corsair Sprint Mk2, 24'): 6:40:56

Gumphy (plan built F-22R 23'): 7:05:14

Louie da Tri (Corsair Sprint Mk1, 24') 7:29:58

 

I think the production F-22R will be significantly quicker.

Hey Paul, looks like you've included the "windless lottery" Race 4 in your calculations. If we base it on the first 3 races and give SPC4 a score of 5 minutes ahead of Louie, (which is roughly where they would have finished had they sailed the correct course and not been scored DNF!) gives a slightly different picture:

 

SPC 4, Sprint Mk2, 5:28:23

Gumphy,F-22R, 6:17:23

Louie, Sprint Mk1, 6:07:11

 

This is taking nothing away from Neville and the Gumphy crew who deserved their final place on the podium, but as you know, the last race had half the fleet, including Two Tribes, sitting 200m from the finish for over 30 minutes going backwards some of the time!

 

Don't sell Louie too short in these conditions!

 

Cheers

Alan

Borrower of Louie da Tri for the Crowther Regatta

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"the last race had half the fleet, including Two Tribes, sitting 200m from the finish for over 30 minutes going backwards some of the time!"

That's just part of racing on Pittwater. Gumphy and Lukim Yu came through brilliantly. It seems every race on Pittwater has that "windless lottery element and people such as Kurt Ottowa 'seem' to have all the luck. IMO it is not luck but skill and I give credit to the sailors on Gumphy and Lukim Yu for their skill, not luck.

More than happy to include race 1 - I had no info - but I would include race 4. How does that work out?

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It's not relevant to the point you were making in your previous post which was about relative boat speeds.

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Ok, I'm an idiot. Where does the sink drain? Is the unit it's own holding tank?

 

post-180-0-18211500-1413155619.jpg

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A few questions from a current 21ft demountable tri owner who's is a potential F22 purchaser once it reaches full production.

 

-What is the chord of the new alloy extrusion mast, I assume it is still a aero profile?

-Will the new alloy mast be better for mast up storage, I have seen in previous posts it was suggested to launch the boat and then raise the mast once on the water due to windage. Will the alloy mast be better in this circumstance?

-Does the F22 dry flat?

-What is the gelcoat thickness on the hull, is there enough for a sacrificial layer for a couple of years of beach camping?