ianlf

F-22 Update

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The F22 looks great and I am sure it is worth the updated price. I am confident it will be a great success. Hopefully, the production costs will go down in the future to the original targeted price range.

 

Unfortunately, the current price tag is just a little too high for me. An alturnitive boat I am looking at is the TC627 which was just launched, simalar to a Seacart. the Italian yard (Andaman Boatyard Co) in Thailand are estimating a production price of 30K-35K USD (no sails/no trailer) the pictures of first boat looks great.

 

Ian's design would be my first choice, if i had the money.

Looks nice, but....

 

Just what the world needs, another expensive demountable daysailor. Like the Multi23, it will sell in limited numbers, fail to reach critical mass, and fade away. That is if it even has an initial buzz of takers... Overcrowded market segment, one with few actual buyers.

 

It does not compare in any way to the F-22, if the F22 is what really suits your needs, the 627 will not do the same job...

And camparing apples to apples, it's not that much less money, but it's certainly much less boat..

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Before you all go nuts, peter did not post this and he dosen't have to provide photos oftits

Just info for F22 enthusiasts

 

Midnight Rain is on the market. If you know anyone looking for an awesome little tri please pass on my details.

 

Thanks

 

Pete

 

The pricing is out now from Ian Farrier and similar spec'd boat would be about $90k ish - I am asking $69k

 

Let me tell you a little about the boat.

 

Boatpoint Ad: http://www.boatsales...8912 4294880873

 

More photos at link below - I still need to get some sailing photos but most of you have probably seen it sailing at some stage.

 

The boat was built by Julian Griffiths at Noosa Marine - he has built many great boats around including Mojo. Julian is a great boat builder so it was a no brainer to go back to him for this build. I decided on the Cuddy Cabin because I viewed the F22 as mainly a day boat and I wanted the huge cockpit - it is great for a day out with friends. The cabin is still good for 2 people to sleep and the cockpit suitable to a good awning / dodger if required.

 

I also went with the R version as I figured it is always easy to slow a boat down even though we mostly cruise the boat I wanted to have fun racing too - even twilight races

 

The boat is very light - 720kgs with all racing gear in safety survey. She has a teak cockpit - because every high tech boat should have a but of teak - and it is nice on the feet.

 

Carbon Rudder, rudder blade and casette all direct from Farrier marine, centre board from Farrier, beams form Farrier, folding mechanism all direct from Farrier.

 

The mast is a work of art - carbon - CST Section with extra stiffening in the top section and High Modulus Carbon - it weighs about 15kg fully rigged - I carry it around the yard very easily. It is finished in clear so the carbon is protected but looks fantastic. Never has it been out of shape - strong, light and it will last a lot longer than an Aluminium mast. Rigging is all Dymeena Dux with fittings by Precourt and Colligo. The buy who built the mast is an amazing rigger/boat builder. In the photos there are horn cleats on the mast for halyards - these have been replaced with spinlock clutches - so each halyard is through clutches now.

 

Bow sprit is carbon tube also.

 

Deck gear is mixture of Harken and Ronstan - selected where best suited. Traveller by Harken, winches by Harken, Main Sheet and Job Sheets Ronstan. Job sheets are 2:1 and easliy handled without winches. I got away with one set of good winches on the cabin top even when racing with the Spinnaker this is fine. The jib is handled down wind to cleats and the spin goes to the winches. The turning blocks for the spin are Harken and are secured to the aft beams with spectra webbing - no hard fixings and easily stowed away when not required.

 

The sails are by Rob Meizer from Quantum - they are Fusion M moulded carbon. The sail plan was designed for racing and includes:

1. Mould Fusion M Square top fully battened main

2. Moulded Fusion M Jib

3. Dacron Furling cruising job (bit smaller)

4. AP1 3/4 hoist spinnaker

5. Laminate Fractional Reaching / heavy air kite (this spinnaker is amazing, smaller but so fast, made of laminate rather than normal spinnaker material it is very stable and versitile)

 

The main is on bb cars by Harken - there are simple lazy jacks rigged and sail cover built to fit. This makes the main really easy to handle, you can drop the main straight into the lazy jacks will no hassle - the head of the sail then drops off the headboard car and folds down the side and the cover goes on.

 

I haven't done the screecher yet.

 

Motor - Tomatsu 5HP Long Shaft

 

Boom tent, winch covers, sail cover

 

Trailer - dual axle, customised for the boat. Tows very well with our Subaru Outback (Legacy)

 

Photos at this url:

 

https://plus.google....=CLSiy9O01Pj8WQ

 

Give me a call if you want any more info -0411 848 727

 

Peter Wesley

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And there are a few quite young F22s and F22Rs on the Oz market at boatsales.com.au - makes the task of flogging an old C24 Mk2 or a Sprint or a Dash just that much harder.

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Midnight Rain is a good looking example of an F22, but why are there so many on the market at present in OZ when they are a recent design? Most have been built with pride by their owners but are now for sale, is insurance an issue, are they cashing up before the production boats arrive or are the owners moving onto bigger boats? The concept is so appealing but it is unusual to see the latest trend.

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I can only speak for myself - selling Midnight Rain because were looking for a larger cruising boat while the kids are young - as much as they (I) love sailing the F22 it is a bit limiting for a family of 4 to cruise. I did hold off until the pricing from NZ came out so maybe others have done the same ie. waited until Ian announced his prices before advertising. Awesome boat. We got insurance no problem - I'm sure any professionally built F22 will get insurance, particularly when Ian starts lobbying to insurers to cover the production versions as has been done with the multi 23.

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I can only speak for myself - selling Midnight Rain because were looking for a larger cruising boat while the kids are young - as much as they (I) love sailing the F22 it is a bit limiting for a family of 4 to cruise. I did hold off until the pricing from NZ came out so maybe others have done the same ie. waited until Ian announced his prices before advertising. Awesome boat. We got insurance no problem - I'm sure any professionally built F22 will get insurance, particularly when Ian starts lobbying to insurers to cover the production versions as has been done with the multi 23.

 

I looked at Midnight Rain twice while it was being built, and can say that it would be one of the best built F-22s one could find. With a long waiting list for the production F-22 this is one to snap up if a boat was needed right now.

http://www.f-boat.co.../F-22Noosa.html

Meanwhile, we have now joined up boat no 1 at our factory:

 

post-18231-0-27551100-1359655106_thumb.jpg

 

Looks like we forgot the deck, but this is a major improvement in procedure and design with my production designs, more details being at:

 

http://www.f-boat.co...actory2012.html

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs That Work

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Ian,

 

When is the cuddy cabin version of the production F-22 going to be available?

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The F22 looks great and I am sure it is worth the updated price. I am confident it will be a great success. Hopefully, the production costs will go down in the future to the original targeted price range.

 

Unfortunately, the current price tag is just a little too high for me. An alturnitive boat I am looking at is the TC627 which was just launched, simalar to a Seacart. the Italian yard (Andaman Boatyard Co) in Thailand are estimating a production price of 30K-35K USD (no sails/no trailer) the pictures of first boat looks great.

 

Ian's design would be my first choice, if i had the money.

Looks nice, but....

 

Just what the world needs, another expensive demountable daysailor. Like the Multi23, it will sell in limited numbers, fail to reach critical mass, and fade away. That is if it even has an initial buzz of takers... Overcrowded market segment, one with few actual buyers.

 

It does not compare in any way to the F-22, if the F22 is what really suits your needs, the 627 will not do the same job...

And camparing apples to apples, it's not that much less money, but it's certainly much less boat..

 

Things that make you go hummmm?

 

http://www.warrenlightcraft.com/specsul20.html

 

Wess

 

Price of a Weta! Saw it at the Naps show as was impressed with how well it was constructed.

 

 

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Ian,

 

When is the cuddy cabin version of the production F-22 going to be available?

 

! am seriously thinking about the first one being hull #7. It will depend on just how well the first two or three go together, but so far it is looking good.

 

post-18231-0-96954500-1359660090_thumb.jpg

 

The basics are already there.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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that Warren boat sure looks nice, just wondering how it would fare in the ocean with waves and such..?

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that Warren boat sure looks nice, just wondering how it would fare in the ocean with waves and such..?

 

Hey, who is watching the savages while you're cogitating about your next boat?

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Looks like a good boat for a day sail on nice flat water, but don't think it would be much fun in chop with a breeze, I'd prefer a Weta I think or an F22, but that's in a different league

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Ian,

 

When is the cuddy cabin version of the production F-22 going to be available?

 

Something I've been thinking about.

The early adopters, especially those who desire cuddy versions, will not be able to race with the upcoming OD version of the boat.

Will they sell and buy an OD?

Will this be the thing that keeps the OD class from ever getting off the ground?

Or, if they can race together (under handicap) then what's the whole point of a OD version...

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Ian,

 

When is the cuddy cabin version of the production F-22 going to be available?

 

! am seriously thinking about the first one being hull #7. It will depend on just how well the first two or three go together, but so far it is looking good.

 

post-18231-0-96954500-1359660090_thumb.jpg

 

The basics are already there.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

So are you just going to modify/cut the full cabin or build a new deck mold? I don't recall seeing any cuddy cabin molds.

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So are you just going to modify/cut the full cabin or build a new deck mold? I don't recall seeing any cuddy cabin molds.

 

i imagine you could simply just lay glass for the cuddy over the full cabin mold, minus the last meter?

 

and also glass up the vertical back of the cabin wall

 

then pop them both off, trim them closely to a template, and then tab them together

 

i think this is the whole idea of the modular build system, lack of coamings etc

 

not only will it make production easier at the chch factory

 

but it will make it much easier to set up new production facilities, eventually, as less molds will need to be made and shipped

 

mexico for the americas?

 

some former eastern block country for europe?

 

i think Ian is doing similar with the end of dagger mold also being used for the centerboard

 

and presumably the same mold being used for normal and long versions of the rudder depending on how much glass is laid and then trimmed

 

viva the numbers, mind, confidence and organisational skill that a project of this scale needs

 

on a limited budget

 

in these strained financial times!

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Something I've been thinking about.

The early adopters, especially those who desire cuddy versions, will not be able to race with the upcoming OD version of the boat.

 

Correct, the One design (F-22XR) will be the one design, no exceptions.

 

Will they sell and buy an OD?

 

Could be the case, and I suspect that early buyers will probably be able to sell their initial production F-22 for what they paid for it, or even more.

 

It will just depend on when I make the decision to release the F-22XR, as the configuration then decided will be the only configuration. It may even be very early in the production cycle, as I will be able to make most of the decisions necessary once our first boat is launched, and we have built two or three more.

 

Will this be the thing that keeps the OD class from ever getting off the ground?

 

No, the F-22XR is going to be the one design, with no variations - that is why I am building it to ensure it is done exactly as it should be, and will not release until it can be locked in. All the other variations can still race anywhere or anyhow they like, or just sail for fun, as happens all the time now.

 

Or, if they can race together (under handicap) then what's the whole point of a OD version...

 

To have a totally one design boat, that races as such, no handicaps, no exceptions. You do not see any J24s racing with the new J70s. The key is to get the sales volume necessary to support a OD class, and this has been one of the aims of the whole F-22 project.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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Ian,

 

When is the cuddy cabin version of the production F-22 going to be available?

 

! am seriously thinking about the first one being hull #7. It will depend on just how well the first two or three go together, but so far it is looking good.

 

post-18231-0-96954500-1359660090_thumb.jpg

 

The basics are already there.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

So are you just going to modify/cut the full cabin or build a new deck mold? I don't recall seeing any cuddy cabin molds.

 

There are two ways we can do it, but which way is still undecided. Either way, the finished cuddly will look just as good as the full cabin.

 

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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To have a totally one design boat, that races as such, no handicaps, no exceptions. You do not see any J24s racing with the new J70s. The key is to get the sales volume necessary to support a OD class, and this has been one of the aims of the whole F-22 project.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Just one more thing on this, the F-22XR OD class racer will only be available as the complete finished boat, with only sails to add. There will be no kit version.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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the latest factory report is at ;

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/FM-Factory2012.html

 

the carbon mast is looking great.

 

Hull #2 that can be seen in build is going to be our demo boat, it will be shipped along with hull#3 that is going to our first UK customer. [2 boats per container]

 

My 2nd UK customer has just been allocated his hull number............#40! This boat is a hit already

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Quality of work looks great

Float shape still looks outdated for a new boat even with more buoyancy aft.

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Shaneo! Don't dis ma new ride mun!

Where do you want to add the buoyancy?

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Shaneo! Don't dis ma new ride mun!

Where do you want to add the buoyancy?

 

New popular type float designs

seacart26-24502-212465.jpg

 

F22

F-22JoinedStern650.jpg

How are you mate ,Hope all is well in your world

Sorry had a few drinks and did that post .We will have a beer and talk design theories next we met as we all have different ideas that is what make us interesting as people and you are more interesting than most .

The new boat is obviously a quality product and I'm very interested in seeing it first hand as I'm shore so many others are .

Will it arrive before race week ?

Hope Ian doesn't go into a rant so I will not post here again .All the best to all involved it looks great

Very sincerely Shane

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Seriously Shane, how would you distribute the volume in the float differently?

This aspect of tri design seems pretty complex to my untrained mind. Your Grainger 075 had very old fashioned looking floats with thin drawn out polynesian sterns, yet it went pretty quick. At the other extreme I remember sailing on Bare Essentials in light winds before foils were added. She had big volume floats and they gurgled and dragged the chunky transoms like a dying animal in light stuff until the big rags were increased even more to get the boat moving earlier.

I think the F22 floats are pretty voluminous for such a little boat, any more in the bows and she would plough. Any more in the sterns and she would drag a whirlpool. The whole tradeoff of volume and rocker is pretty twitchy, and the balance felt pretty good on the 22 I sailed on. Can't wait to try the production model though.

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Whoops, crossed posts!

No apology or rant needed, this is SA after all. I hope you have recovered after the drinks.

I am hoping for a 22 before Airlie, but will bring the 27 otherwise, and I think it is your shout.

I see the style you are referring to in the pic. IMHO I believe that sort of boat will need huge rags and ultra light weight to work, while the 22 is designed as a comfortable and safe boat that should go pretty quick also.

Time will tell.

 

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The way it was already explained here, not too long ago, was volume at the ends accentuated tris trademark 'rocking horse' motion

made sense then

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New popular type float designs

seacart26-24502-212465.jpg

 

 

 

The point of my post was that at least 40 F-22s are on order - I'm pretty sure that makes tham more 'popular' than the SC26. In fact, it must make it the most popular trimaran on the planet at the moment wouldn't you say?

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I think the reference to "popular" is that the only time this planet has had this interest and intensity of orders before the boats hit the water would have been in the Tramp and F27 days.

 

Hi Rob, the family crew are working all over the state, and getting them in the one place at the one time is like herding sheep. I have had to race lately with blokes instead of sweet daughters, with the result that sports boats don't anchor next to me for some reason LOL.

It is no secret that I am the aussie dealer and my first boat here in a few months (hurry up Ian) should be a full cabin aft cockpit R with the carbon porn mast. I will cease my previous employment and assemble, then trail, sail, race, and cruise her all over the east coast at least, then sell her to the highest bidder and replace her with the XR once all the go fast bits for that boat are ready. That will be when things get even more interesting!

 

The sad part of this equation is the hibernation, chartering out, or (lump in throat typing this word) selling of the 27. IntrIIgue is the most comfortable, fun, and fairly fast boat I have ever sailed on and it will be a real challenge for the 22 to replace that, but there isn't enough room in the shed for two boats. I expect the launching and trailing to be a lot easier, she should be faster, but the other usual criteria will be a "watch this space". I was inside one of the Melvest built 22' s a few weeks back and inside the boat did my head in, it really is a Tardis, which would have been a great name if some leadmine hadn't used it already.

 

While on my soapbox, any aussies can contact me direct at pha70516@bigpond.net.au and soon peterh@f-boat.com 0438695943

Cheers, Peter Hackett

 

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Good onya Pete,always thought you were dealing something :P

With your ahhm "enthusiasm" I'm sure the Aussie mareket will soon be flooded with these little beauties.

 

ps,with Shaneo onboard every boat needs more flotation ;)

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New popular type float designs

seacart26-24502-212465.jpg

 

Sorry had a few drinks and did that post .We will have a beer and talk design theories next we met as we all have different ideas that is what make us interesting as people and you are more interesting than most .

The new boat is obviously a quality product and I'm very interested in seeing it first hand as I'm shore so many others are .

Very sincerely Shane

 

Trimaran float design is actually a very complex subject, and our monohull friends have spent 50 to 100 years trying to refine one hull, whereas we throw an extra 2 into the mix. A real recipe for complexity and dissent.

 

However, the above round bottom floats and full sterns are not new, having been tried many times before. Photo below shows what was probably the original modern racing trimaran, Derek Kelsall's 1966 Round Britain Race winning 42' Toria. Note the full round float sterns. Derek's Toria was ahead of its time in the sixties, and an inspiration for many, including myself.

 

post-18231-0-25679300-1361062505_thumb.jpg

 

However, one problem with such floats can be a rougher ride, and much higher impact loads on the beams. Too full in the stern and they will also tend to push the bows down, or not exactly what one wants. Check out all the photos of many such boats sailing, and you can see the bow down attitude much more frequently than is healthy, particularly with modern taller rigs.

 

I prefer a more bow up attitude, and racing owners of my designs know they will be a little faster if crew is sent forward in moderate conditions to counter the bow's tendency to lift. Crew are then slowly pulled back as speed increases to keep bows high. The result is a very bow buoyant and much safer design overall, which is an important factor for cruisers.

 

post-18231-0-50776500-1361062542_thumb.jpg

 

Adding more buoyancy to that float stern is only going to push the bow down.

 

Peter Blake's original Steinlager 60' trimaran also had very round/flat bottom floats and even Peter Blake said after winning the 1988 Round Australia Race that the motion was bad that he had never felt so tired out. Steinlager later broke her beams in the Atlantic and cause was said to be due to the violent motion from the floats.

 

There are also other examples, so not everything is as new as it seems, nor do some things perform as claimed. Different purposes also require different float shapes, and inshore designs can have more rounded keels with fuller sterns, whereas offshore designs should have more V shaped keels and finer sterns..

 

The F-22 is intended to be an all round 'sport cruiser', the float shape being the result of over 30 years of development, and designed to give the best combination of performance, comfort, and seaworthiness for an inshore trailerable. I think it is just right.

 

We have also just infused the F-22 hull #2:

 

post-18231-0-59523000-1361062559_thumb.jpg

 

This boat is the first of two F-22 Stage 2 kits that will be shipped to the UK

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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To have a totally one design boat, that races as such, no handicaps, no exceptions. You do not see any J24s racing with the new J70s. The key is to get the sales volume necessary to support a OD class, and this has been one of the aims of the whole F-22 project.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Just one more thing on this, the F-22XR OD class racer will only be available as the complete finished boat, with only sails to add. There will be no kit version.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Ian, the new boat is looking superb and I look forward to seeing some sailing in Auckland. Question; are sails completely open on the one design version, with regard to origin and number carried, or will there be a 'one design' sail wardrobe that only certain lofts will be able to supply?

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So, composite-foam-boy-shortly,

new career! I guess you can proof read and correct drafts of advertising "panphlets" in the bargain? Good luck with the new venture. All regatta costs are now tax deductable as advertising and demonstration sails?

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I think deep down "Plywood Boy" still has a warm spot in his heart for his old girl ... the TT720.

 

Keep the tag Peter, its good to be proud of the F22's fore father. We will have to introduce your new girl to the old one one day :)

 

Cheers

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Thanks Rob and Mark, although I am drilling my brain trying to catch up to the "panphlets"?

Ply is still a composite, and the orientation is 0/90, it is more sustainable than exotics, and the impact resistance is not to be ignored, so yes, I will stay pliable for a while.

Sorry I missed you guys at Wangi this year, but promise here to be there holding Shane's hand at the briefing before the first race in the next series.

cya

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I think the reference to "popular" is that the only time this planet has had this interest and intensity of orders before the boats hit the water would have been in the Tramp and F27 days.

 

Hi Rob, the family crew are working all over the state, and getting them in the one place at the one time is like herding sheep. I have had to race lately with blokes instead of sweet daughters, with the result that sports boats don't anchor next to me for some reason LOL.

It is no secret that I am the aussie dealer and my first boat here in a few months (hurry up Ian) should be a full cabin aft cockpit R with the carbon porn mast. I will cease my previous employment and assemble, then trail, sail, race, and cruise her all over the east coast at least, then sell her to the highest bidder and replace her with the XR once all the go fast bits for that boat are ready. That will be when things get even more interesting!

 

The sad part of this equation is the hibernation, chartering out, or (lump in throat typing this word) selling of the 27. IntrIIgue is the most comfortable, fun, and fairly fast boat I have ever sailed on and it will be a real challenge for the 22 to replace that, but there isn't enough room in the shed for two boats. I expect the launching and trailing to be a lot easier, she should be faster, but the other usual criteria will be a "watch this space". I was inside one of the Melvest built 22' s a few weeks back and inside the boat did my head in, it really is a Tardis, which would have been a great name if some leadmine hadn't used it already.

 

While on my soapbox, any aussies can contact me direct at pha70516@bigpond.net.au and soon peterh@f-boat.com 0438695943

Cheers, Peter Hackett

 

F22 Vs the Box Boat. How do you think you will go.... Both parties talking it up.

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Easy win to the F22 for longevity.

It will still be around in 30 years (like me) and more than a couple will be built. Seriously fellas, solid foam has been done before and doesn't even work for a floating dock.

On OMR, different division, and even if you stick them all together IMHO the rule doesn't work comparing zero accommodation (or less than zero in this case) cats with comfortable tris.

Opinion only of course....

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F22 Vs the Box Boat. How do you think you will go.... Both parties talking it up.

 

Seriously? Where's the family, hell where 's the BEER, going to fit?

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/boatbox-boat-box-roof-box-p216824

 

But if you mean this - http://www.boxboat.com.au/

then there is no fair comparison. Might as well wonder if a lawnmover will outsell a snowblower. An open tramp cat vs a trimaran with a cockpit and cabin don't really serve the same purpose.

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Something I've been thinking about.

The early adopters, especially those who desire cuddy versions, will not be able to race with the upcoming OD version of the boat.

 

Correct, the One design (F-22XR) will be the one design, no exceptions.

 

Will they sell and buy an OD?

 

Could be the case, and I suspect that early buyers will probably be able to sell their initial production F-22 for what they paid for it, or even more.

 

It will just depend on when I make the decision to release the F-22XR, as the configuration then decided will be the only configuration. It may even be very early in the production cycle, as I will be able to make most of the decisions necessary once our first boat is launched, and we have built two or three more.

 

Will this be the thing that keeps the OD class from ever getting off the ground?

 

No, the F-22XR is going to be the one design, with no variations - that is why I am building it to ensure it is done exactly as it should be, and will not release until it can be locked in. All the other variations can still race anywhere or anyhow they like, or just sail for fun, as happens all the time now.

 

Or, if they can race together (under handicap) then what's the whole point of a OD version...

 

To have a totally one design boat, that races as such, no handicaps, no exceptions. You do not see any J24s racing with the new J70s. The key is to get the sales volume necessary to support a OD class, and this has been one of the aims of the whole F-22 project.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Sounds like configuration multiplication ad nauseum as predicted... So people have ordered boats with the idea of OD but nobody knows what the OD configuration is? Sounds like what happened back in the F31/F28 days with Corsair where there were a million different configurations possible which then led to no OD racing. In reality is a cuddy cabin boat going to be much different in performance than a long cabin? Probably not. But of course we now have the R mast versus the cruising mast mast Al and carbon options for each (not to mention a variety of suppliers) and those will make some difference (at least that will be the perception). Is there also going to be a daggerboard vs centreboard option? And the OD can't be kit assembled? Wasn't that a huge draw? WTF?

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[

 

Sounds like configuration multiplication ad nauseum as predicted... So people have ordered boats with the idea of OD but nobody knows what the OD configuration is? Sounds like what happened back in the F31/F28 days with Corsair where there were a million different configurations possible which then led to no OD racing. In reality is a cuddy cabin boat going to be much different in performance than a long cabin? Probably not. But of course we now have the R mast versus the cruising mast mast Al and carbon options for each (not to mention a variety of suppliers) and those will make some difference (at least that will be the perception). Is there also going to be a daggerboard vs centreboard option? And the OD can't be kit assembled? Wasn't that a huge draw? WTF?

 

Anyone that has ordered the OD version isn't getting their boat yet, they are waiting for it to go into production.

In the mean time, you can have the boat that is right for you and it can still be raced, but on handicap not OD.

It's not complicated - unles you want it to be!

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Sounds like configuration multiplication ad nauseum as predicted... So people have ordered boats with the idea of OD but nobody knows what the OD configuration is? Sounds like what happened back in the F31/F28 days with Corsair where there were a million different configurations possible which then led to no OD racing. In reality is a cuddy cabin boat going to be much different in performance than a long cabin? Probably not. But of course we now have the R mast versus the cruising mast mast Al and carbon options for each (not to mention a variety of suppliers) and those will make some difference (at least that will be the perception). Is there also going to be a daggerboard vs centreboard option? And the OD can't be kit assembled? Wasn't that a huge draw? WTF?

 

It has been made very obvious right from the start that there were going to be a number of variations possible with the F-22, and that certainly did not need to be predicted. It is all very straight forward for anyone who reads the F-22 web site, specifications, and Price List. It is hard to develop and build these folding boats so once one has the basic configuration as shown in photo (below) why not offer several variations?

 

post-18231-0-99662500-1361821322_thumb.jpg

 

Just like good car manufacturers in fact with two door, four door and 5 door versions, different engine and transmission configurations, automatic or manual, two wheel drive, or four wheel drive etc etc. Why limit one's offering to just a two door manual? The Model T days are well behind us, and it would seem to be very shortsighted to limit one's market.

 

For instance the preference for a centerboard versus daggerboard is around 50% each, so why not offer both if one can? There are significant advantages either way. Some also prefer a large cockpit, others a large cabin and there is no reason not to offer both, if one is prepared to put in the time and be well organized. Cruisers also have no need for a tall racing mast, so why not offer a safer cruising version? We are already seeing far too many capsizes from those boats that only come with one oversize mast.

 

NONE of the above variations have ever been promoted as class racers, the boat designated for this being the F-22XR, which will only be available in a ready to sail format, and definitely not as a kit. Otherwise the temptation to change things is too great, which can ruin the One Design aspect as it did with the F-25C kits. The F-22XR will also not be available until after I am satisfied that it is the best that it can be, so that it can be frozen in the best possible OD format, with everything consistent and equal as it should be.

 

Latest production photos are now also on:

 

http://www.f-boat.co...actory2012.html

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work....

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..... The F-22XR will also not be available until after I am satisfied that it is the best that it can be, so that it can be frozen in the best possible OD format, with everything consistent and equal as it should be.

 

Latest production photos are now also on:

 

http://www.f-boat.co...actory2012.html

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work....

 

If I may make one small suggestion -

The "X" designation has been established as the "wide" version in previous boats.

The "SR" designation has recently been established as the "pure race" versions of the F85 and F32.

The "R" designation has long been established as the tall mast as opposed to the standard mast on any model.

 

So, anyone familiar with your boats' nomenclature knows that (for example) an F-32RX is a wide body tall rig F-32 or that the F-32SR is the minimalist cabin super tall rig pure race boat.

 

WHY change that with the F-22? It's a bit confusing. The proposed "F-22RX" is not consistent with prior nomenclature, it's not a widebody tall mast version of a standard boat. Shouldn't it perhaps be called the F-22SR, or better yet - the F-22rOD.

(I like that, the "Rod.")

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WHY change that with the F-22? It's a bit confusing. The proposed "F-22RX" is not consistent with prior nomenclature, it's not a widebody tall mast version of a standard boat. Shouldn't it perhaps be called the F-22SR, or better yet - the F-22rOD.

(I like that, the "Rod.")

 

Lots of logic there.... the name went round and round for a bit........ but, I think, it came down to XR sounding best!

 

It's going to superceed all the kit boat terminology anyhow.

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To have a totally one design boat, that races as such, no handicaps, no exceptions. You do not see any J24s racing with the new J70s. The key is to get the sales volume necessary to support a OD class, and this has been one of the aims of the whole F-22 project.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Just one more thing on this, the F-22XR OD class racer will only be available as the complete finished boat, with only sails to add. There will be no kit version.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Ian, the new boat is looking superb and I look forward to seeing some sailing in Auckland. Question; are sails completely open on the one design version, with regard to origin and number carried, or will there be a 'one design' sail wardrobe that only certain lofts will be able to supply?

 

Bump. Be interested in the answer to this. Allowing no limit on sails/type/construction, if that is the intention, would seem to defeat the purpose of a one design to an extent.

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..... The F-22XR will also not be available until after I am satisfied that it is the best that it can be, so that it can be frozen in the best possible OD format, with everything consistent and equal as it should be.

 

Latest production photos are now also on:

 

http://www.f-boat.co...actory2012.html

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work....

 

If I may make one small suggestion -

The "X" designation has been established as the "wide" version in previous boats.

The "SR" designation has recently been established as the "pure race" versions of the F85 and F32.

The "R" designation has long been established as the tall mast as opposed to the standard mast on any model.

 

So, anyone familiar with your boats' nomenclature knows that (for example) an F-32RX is a wide body tall rig F-32 or that the F-32SR is the minimalist cabin super tall rig pure race boat.

 

WHY change that with the F-22? It's a bit confusing. The proposed "F-22RX" is not consistent with prior nomenclature, it's not a widebody tall mast version of a standard boat. Shouldn't it perhaps be called the F-22SR, or better yet - the F-22rOD.

(I like that, the "Rod.")

 

What kind of name is Oxygen Mask anyhow!

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..... The F-22XR will also not be available until after I am satisfied that it is the best that it can be, so that it can be frozen in the best possible OD format, with everything consistent and equal as it should be.

 

Latest production photos are now also on:

 

http://www.f-boat.co...actory2012.html

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work....

 

If I may make one small suggestion -

The "X" designation has been established as the "wide" version in previous boats.

The "SR" designation has recently been established as the "pure race" versions of the F85 and F32.

The "R" designation has long been established as the tall mast as opposed to the standard mast on any model.

 

So, anyone familiar with your boats' nomenclature knows that (for example) an F-32RX is a wide body tall rig F-32 or that the F-32SR is the minimalist cabin super tall rig pure race boat.

 

WHY change that with the F-22? It's a bit confusing. The proposed "F-22RX" is not consistent with prior nomenclature, it's not a widebody tall mast version of a standard boat. Shouldn't it perhaps be called the F-22SR, or better yet - the F-22rOD.

(I like that, the "Rod.")

 

F-22rOD sounds too much like F-22R Over Dose to me, and a tongue twister to say.

 

Current designation is F-22XR, but I may change my mind by the time it is ready. I have used X to designate Xtra room on the earlier wider models, but the X has always been the last letter, so F-22RX would mean a wider F-22 with Xtra room, but such a boat is not going to happen.

 

F-22XR just means the F-22 with Xtra Race potential, but just like the boat, not set in stone yet.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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What kind of name is Oxygen Mask anyhow!

 

It was originally given to me as a nickname right here on SA, on the old wild frontier original forum, long long ago.

Long before I was even mildly interested in sailing a multihull of any kind, during a regatta a particularly poorly sailed & mossy bottomed F-31 kept camping on my wind ("oxygen masks drop from the boom"...) and that story led to the nickname. It stuck.

 

Kinda funny/ironic now.

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i would think F22-RR

 

or F22-R1

 

would be very effective at communicating the most with the least

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To have a totally one design boat, that races as such, no handicaps, no exceptions. You do not see any J24s racing with the new J70s. The key is to get the sales volume necessary to support a OD class, and this has been one of the aims of the whole F-22 project.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Just one more thing on this, the F-22XR OD class racer will only be available as the complete finished boat, with only sails to add. There will be no kit version.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Ian, the new boat is looking superb and I look forward to seeing some sailing in Auckland. Question; are sails completely open on the one design version, with regard to origin and number carried, or will there be a 'one design' sail wardrobe that only certain lofts will be able to supply?

 

Bump. Be interested in the answer to this. Allowing no limit on sails/type/construction, if that is the intention, would seem to defeat the purpose of a one design to an extent.

 

Just too busy at the moment to even think about details for the F-22XR. All our F-22 production for the next two or three years has already been sold, so we have to concentrate on getting the production rate up.

 

post-18231-0-53920700-1361989420_thumb.jpg

 

Two boats now being worked on, with #3 to follow. #1 could actually be launched within a week, but still some final details to completed first, with several small component molds related to the mast and outboard well still in process. One has to have a lot of patience when setting up a production boat, as it is too easy to just cut and run, only to have it come back and bite later. Do it right the first time in other words...

 

The F-22XR sails will not be completely open, with number and material probably being limited. Also it is unlikely that one or two lofts will have a monopoly. I will be looking at the F-22XR once we have our standard range production rate close to where it should be, and only after I am happy that the F-22XR can be frozen and manufactured in the best possible configuration. Will make all the needed decisions at that time.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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Like the aluminum lashing eyes. Who makes them?

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People may whinge at the updated price but let me tell you how much work goes into a trimaran, shitloads,every day I drag myself up to do some more work in a hot, dusty, itchy world for the last year and a half with another year to go, where you spend most of your waking life hounded by the family and work commitments let me say that the F22 is good value and will be going many years after the others come and go, very similar to a Hobie Cat and the Hobie Cat brand, you pay for quality and you pay for resale, thats life.For 90% of multihull people around an F22 would probably be ideal.

Evil

PS had a bad day sanding and am itchy and cranky!

PPS Just saw my original Hobie 14 I bought 35 years ago for sale $700 more than what I paid for it.

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Like the aluminum lashing eyes. Who makes them?

 

Like the aluminum lashing eyes. Who makes them?

 

We developed them here for the F-22 and make the parts required. Right now they are for the F-22 and F-32 only, but this may change as time permits

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine,

Designs that work

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Thank you Mr. Farrier. I will be watching to see if you market them!

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PS had a bad day sanding and am itchy and cranky!

 

 

Pictures on the F-85SR thread please ... :rolleyes:

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PS had a bad day sanding and am itchy and cranky!

 

 

Pictures on the F-85SR thread please ... :rolleyes:

 

PS had a bad day sanding and am itchy and cranky!

 

 

Pictures on the F-85SR thread please ... :rolleyes:

 

post-32253-0-80243600-1365058564_thumb.jpg

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People may whinge at the updated price but let me tell you how much work goes into a trimaran, shitloads,every day I drag myself up to do some more work in a hot, dusty, itchy world for the last year and a half with another year to go, where you spend most of your waking life hounded by the family and work commitments let me say that the F22 is good value and will be going many years after the others come and go, very similar to a Hobie Cat and the Hobie Cat brand, you pay for quality and you pay for resale, thats life.For 90% of multihull people around an F22 would probably be ideal.

Evil

PS had a bad day sanding and am itchy and cranky!

PPS Just saw my original Hobie 14 I bought 35 years ago for sale $700 more than what I paid for it.

+1

Been there, built a 8.5m tri. The f22 is great value! Anyone who thinks otherwise should build 1 then comment!

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Gnome, you look ready to star in the next Tarantino, hurry up and finish that gorgeous boat we are ready to play with the next member of your tribe!

+1 again Samin (and I admit again to a big aussie involvement in the project as dealer). I am more excited than at any stages of my previous builds and reno's to be able to get a 22 at Stage 1 and do the fun things. The only glass dust I will get on me will be from drilling holes and fitting the silverware to the deck!

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The very latest production F-22 photos are now available at:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/FM-Factory2013.html

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work.....

Hi Ian,

 

All I can say is.......WOW!!!!

 

Simply stunning!!!

 

What an absolutely BEAUTIFUL boat.

 

You have outdone yourself on this one.

 

I suspect that the number of pre-orders is about to go off the charts.

 

Congratulations!!!

 

Cheers!!!

 

-MH

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Beautiful. Thanks for sharing the "design for manufacturability" details:

Aluminum lashing buttons, etc. How do you reinforce the molded-in bolt rope tracks? Pre-built tubes or?

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what;s happening with that hatch

 

most of the time it looks big enough to stand-up through

 

F-22UpperView790.jpg

 

other times too narrow to stand

 

Anchorwell650.jpg

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I think Corsair Marine is in trouble. The F22 looks Awesome, and if I bought a dash I would be seriously second guessing my choice.

 

I doubt it.

And those who bought a Dash had some great months and years of sailing on a great boat, why would I second guess that?

 

The F-22 looks great, though. Very nice work.

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what;s happening with that hatch

 

most of the time it looks big enough to stand-up through

 

other times too narrow to stand

 

It is big enough to stand in or get through, but it is only an option mainly for ventilation, or emergency access, as one can't stand there anyway - the bunk is directly below.

 

post-18231-0-32530200-1372661398_thumb.jpg

 

All my early boats of this size never had a foredeck hatch as there was not really enough room in the bow to make it worthwhile. However, the F-22 does have plenty of room forward so has changed this. However, the hatch still only has limited use, so hence it is just an option.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work..

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some CAT requirements mandate a 'second means of escape' , basically a front hatch.

 

in aus in monos anyway

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some CAT requirements mandate a 'second means of escape' , basically a front hatch.

 

in aus in monos anyway

 

Easy to fit the hatch if required by regs - it is a standard available option, and can even be made bigger if wished.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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Upgrade of info on the Midnight Rain ad earlier here.

Nice local guy from a farm on the Downs has bought her up from Sydney, much to Peter's sadness at losing her.

A couple of us BrisVegas hoods are helping take her to Airlie to help deal with the pain of Ian taking enough time to get my own 22 finished and perfect before cutting it loose from the factory.

 

First impressions in light winds are that she is a delightful boat and more proof of what a great design and a great build with an absolute carbon porn rig can do. Rigging the first time I was still trying to get the winch right to pull the mast up and Chukka pushed it up himself from the cockpit.

 

Kite is fairly conservative to keep the rating down, so we are hoping for plenty of stink like last year to help us keep in sight of the fast guys.

 

Would have been a cliche, but the name should have been Tardis as we cannot work out how such a huge and fun cockpit can be on the same cuddy cabin boat that (cosily) sleeps 4.

 

Even looking forward to the drive north this time, tows like a little box trailer without the jiggle.

 

Funnel Bay, Unsafe Passage, Double Cones, Two Beer Tents Woohooooooo!

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Upgrade of info on the Midnight Rain ad earlier here.

Nice local guy from a farm on the Downs has bought her up from Sydney, much to Peter's sadness at losing her.

A couple of us BrisVegas hoods are helping take her to Airlie to help deal with the pain of Ian taking enough time to get my own 22 finished and perfect before cutting it loose from the factory.

 

First impressions in light winds are that she is a delightful boat and more proof of what a great design and a great build with an absolute carbon porn rig can do. Rigging the first time I was still trying to get the winch right to pull the mast up and Chukka pushed it up himself from the cockpit.

 

Kite is fairly conservative to keep the rating down, so we are hoping for plenty of stink like last year to help us keep in sight of the fast guys.

 

Would have been a cliche, but the name should have been Tardis as we cannot work out how such a huge and fun cockpit can be on the same cuddy cabin boat that (cosily) sleeps 4.

 

Even looking forward to the drive north this time, tows like a little box trailer without the jiggle.

 

Funnel Bay, Unsafe Passage, Double Cones, Two Beer Tents Woohooooooo!

Great News, Next best thing to the new production boat. Have a great regatta (or two?).

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Does anyone here know what Corsair F27s and F24s are actually selling for? I see them listed for $40k-$30k but that seems high for a 20-25 year old boat that is now 4 design generations ago. The F22 at $45k would have been amazing but I'm probably looking for something used now.

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Does anyone here know what Corsair F27s and F24s are actually selling for? I see them listed for $40k-$30k but that seems high for a 20-25 year old boat that is now 4 design generations ago. The F22 at $45k would have been amazing but I'm probably looking for something used now.

 

I paid 36K for a Sprint 750 - with trailer. 2008

Jib was a bit beat, but I'll get two summers out of it.

 

Trailer and outboard were OK. I put some new shrouds on it.

 

I think in the range of 40K is decent for 6-10 year old models...depending on options, condition, etc.

Most of the sales appear to be through the Corsair dealers - you can see which models seem to have been hanging around a while and make an offer.

 

I had a deposit on a 2005 F24 at 33K before this one came up, but the seller was too fickle (wouldn't finish the sale).

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Interestingly, the OZ used boat market just fired up after some quiet times, perhaps due to the changes in the economy, perhaps due to F 22 orders building in numbers. These boats went in quick succession over a couple of weeks.

 

F 82R G Force

F 22 Midnight Rain

F 24 Outrage

F 24 Wingin' It

Sprint Triton

 

Another F22 about to go as well.

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Interestingly, the OZ used boat market just fired up after some quiet times, perhaps due to the changes in the economy, perhaps due to F 22 orders building in numbers. These boats went in quick succession over a couple of weeks.

F 82R G Force

F 22 Midnight Rain

F 24 Outrage

F 24 Wingin' It

Sprint Triton

Another F22 about to go as well.

At least 3 more Sprints ready to sell.

Louie da Tri

Zorro II

Sharnhorst

 

Great boats if you don't want to wait for a F22

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Does anyone here know what Corsair F27s and F24s are actually selling for? I see them listed for $40k-$30k but that seems high for a 20-25 year old boat that is now 4 design generations ago. The F22 at $45k would have been amazing but I'm probably looking for something used now.

The lowest I have seen an F27 sell for was upper 20s (USD) on East coast of US but that was one badly beat up boat. Know of one that went for over 50 (USD) about 1-2 years back and it was extremely well equipped.

 

Mine has been unofficially on and off for sale and I was offered over 40 (USD) last year. Chickened out though and could not pull the plug.

 

I suspect they keep their value in part because there really is nothing else like them or even close in terms of bang for the buck. Double digit speeds, sleep a family of 4, easy to trailer, etc... all for less than $50. Where else can you find that?

 

The boats on the market (that I looked at before buying mine) were all (IMHO) somewhat marginal for my intended use (racing with my young kids as crew) which called for a pretty high standard. So by the time you get done with new mast, new sails, new nets, new rigging, rehab a trailer to like new, etc... you have sunk a few bucks. Add in that its more fun to sail than anything else on the planet and as my own experience dictates, it can be hard to let go.

 

Sooner or later I will - its getting time to head back to a true offshore cruising boat - but there is no boat (and I have owned and sold lots of them) I will miss more than the F27.

 

If you find a well equipped boat and clean trailer (a trick in itself) for $45-50 that is truely ready to go, grab it. Bunch of good dealers out here (Finish Line, Windcraft, Multihull Source) could hook you up. You can also fins private sales on the Yahoo forums.

 

Wess

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Wess, I think you did pull the plug, you didn't pull the switch.

 

Metaphorically speaking, of course.

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"Does anyone here know what Corsair F27s and F24s are actually selling for? I see them listed for $40k-$30k but that seems high for a 20-25 year old boat that is now 4 design generations ago. The F22 at $45k would have been amazing but I'm probably looking for something used now."

 

The F-27 has always held a very high resale value, having sold new for around $43 - $50K over 25 years ago, and since then some have even been sold for more than what the original owner paid. It was a very advanced and unique boat for its time, plus it was built and backed very well, and even now owners know that I will still provide backup when needed. I often said back then that while the entry price was high, the F-27 would be the most inexpensive boat one could own, due to the savings in dock fees and the high resale value, a factor now well proven.

 

post-18231-0-28352500-1375081097_thumb.jpg

F-27 #2 in Boston and on the way to our first Annapolis Boat Show in 1986. Owner

later sold this boat at a freeway stop after being made an offer he could not refuse.

 

I believe the F-22 will have a very similar or even better track record of value, as it is a much more advanced boat than the F-27, of even higher quality, and the actual real cost of ownership will again be very low.

 

The latest progress photos can now be seen on:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/FM-Factory2013.html

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

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After facing up to the tough call of selling my F27 and then sailing a planbuilt F22 for the last month (in prep for our nationals), I am pretty sure this boat will outdo the 27 at least here in OZ. In my view a lot of the magic of the 27 package was that it could be left on hardstand for the big savings there. Since the nineties our dock AND hardstand fees have soared and the 22 will truly be a boat that you will be able to leave at home and rig when you need it, saving even more.

 

As an aside, I bought boat #33 from California for 39k USD and sold her here for 65 k AUD. Send me ten more and I could fund a reasonable retirement!

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