ianlf

F-22 Update

Recommended Posts

Was out sailing yesterday and saw the home built F22 out sailing. Looked good, although it was great conditions (12ish knots harbour breeze), was hoping to see the production one out as well, but no show.

 

Too busy working to go sailing, being right in the middle of those final production stages that always seem to go like molasses, with a seemingly endless list of small jobs to be done, or parts to be sorted and sourced.

 

The remaining interior molds are also being made, while various other parts are being refined/improved, one being the mast raising system. This took 3 minutes or so to setup on the initial launch, which was too long, so it has been revised and now only takes 30 seconds. Not much difference if setup takes 2 or 3 hours, but when one is aiming for a sub 20 minute setup time, a 2.5 minute saving is significant.

 

post-18231-0-81270900-1383072881_thumb.jpg

Mast raising being tested for about the 15th time

 

Just routine humdrum stuff, with nothing really exciting to report, but the 'to do' list is slowly getting smaller......

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have I missed something in searching for specs on the F22? I've gone to the website (http://www.farriermarine.com/pdf/F-22Specifications.pdf ) but haven't found a comprehensive set of data for such things a CB draft up & down, sail areas, etc. Am I dense or missing the secret handshake or ....

 

hadn't considered a tri until this last weekend when I had an opportunity to see a Sprint when I went to check out a Beneteau 210 I was interested in buying but the Sprint which I sailed on (passenger only as I am recovering from a bicep reattachment on my right shoulder and was useless as crew) really impressed me. The F22 seems the perfect size for my needs, therefore my interest here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have I missed something in searching for specs on the F22? I've gone to the website (http://www.farriermarine.com/pdf/F-22Specifications.pdf ) but haven't found a comprehensive set of data for such things a CB draft up & down, sail areas, etc. Am I dense or missing the secret handshake or ....

 

Specifications are here: http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22.html

 

Towards the bottom of the page.

 

 

Or,.............I'll just post them here:

 

 

L.O.A..................................... 22' 10" (6.96m)

B.O.A..................................... 18' 1" (5.51m)

Folded beam............................ 8' 2 1/2" (2.5m)

Approx. bare weight ............... 1300 - 1500lbs (590 - 680kg) depending on model

Float Displacement...................3056lbs (1390kg)

F-22 Sail area (main & jib)...... 325sq.ft (30.15sq.m.)

F-22R Sail area (main & jib)....386sq.ft. (35.86sq.m.)

F-22 Mast Height.....................31' (9.4m)

F-22R Mast Height..................35.1' (10.7m)

Draft (board up)...................... 12" (0.31m)

Draft (board down)................. 4' 11" (1.51m)

Interior Headroom ...................5' 2" (1.58m), 6' 2" (1.88m) with optional "pop top"

Main cabin width......................7' 3" (2.2m)

Height on trailer........................8' 8" (2.64m) (will depend on trailer used)

 

Cheers!!!

 

-MH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ta very much, can't use my right (mousing) arm very well yet to scroll to the bottom of the page. Exactly what I was looking for, agin thanks, very much apppreciated! D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

improve brain plasticity, develop yr skills, try the mouse in other hand - i had to reskill after shoulder reconstruction and can now drink excessively with either hand

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

improve brain plasticity, develop yr skills, try the mouse in other hand - i had to reskill after shoulder reconstruction and can now drink excessively with either hand

Been able to do the drinking thing very ambidextrously for some time now (as well as a number of other things :o ) but somehow the interconnect for mouse use just isn't there. Probably the lenght of the page factored in as well, lazy me. Mea culpa!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive been trying to find the phrf rating for the f22, I would think that there should be enough homebuilt examples out there to have some realistic numbers established by now but I havnt found any yet. Any ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive been trying to find the phrf rating for the f22, I would think that there should be enough homebuilt examples out there to have some realistic numbers established by now but I havnt found any yet. Any ideas.

Sure, build one for yourself, race it in phrf, get the numbers.

 

Duh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Ive been trying to find the phrf rating for the f22, I would think that there should be enough homebuilt examples out there to have some realistic numbers established by now but I havnt found any yet. Any ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Canadian built f22 with centerboard, short mast and no kite we rated 108 at the Pensacola trimaran regatta last spring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should be able to derive a Texel number, no? Do the conversion magic and voila?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should be able to derive a Texel number, no? Do the conversion magic and voila?

 

running a cat based calculator for a tri

 

didn't work in deriving an accurate handicap for the weta

 

but i guess a formula based calculator could be made to work if it were designed for a tri from the get go

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive been trying to find the phrf rating for the f22, I would think that there should be enough homebuilt examples out there to have some realistic numbers established by now but I havnt found any yet. Any ideas.

Start by using the same numbers as the Corsair sprint and Dash. Performance of professionally plan built F22s is near identical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use the Australian OMR rating as a guide, it works really well for similar boats. But you won't get an OMR for a class. It works on individual boats which always weigh differently and will have different crew weights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Canadian built f22 with centerboard, short mast and no kite we rated

108 at the Pensacola trimaran regatta last spring.

I saw that 108 rating and was puzzled for sure but the lack of downwind sails would explain it, when you say short rig I assume that is the standard rig. I know that a lot of folks diss phrf but for some of us its the only game in town. Do we think the 22 is faster or about the same as the sprint/dash? We have very few multis where I sail.

 

Steve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey lake pee....

you certainly gave me a run for my money at the nats .... with my Phrf of - 21 I should have been way..way up front.. but that little green monster was always close by .... :-)

 

Might has something to do with my old white blown out sails and the old farth in the back of the bus as well. It was certainly a pleasure to race with you.

 

F-33%26F-22Nationals.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hey lake pee....

you certainly gave me a run for my money at the nats .... with my Phrf of - 21 I should have been way..way up front.. but that little green monster was always close by .... :-)

 

Might has something to do with my old white blown out sails and the old farth in the back of the bus as well. It was certainly a pleasure to race with you.

 

F-33&F-22Nationals.jpg

Thor, here you go again......

 

Apparently you have not been paying attention, becaues "lake pee" does not own a F-22...........(yet). ;-)

 

***R. Thompson***

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lake pee : Canadian built f22 with centerboard, short mast and no kite we rated 108 at the Pensacola trimaran regatta last spring

 

 

Just sayin.... before the town idiot tells peeps to pay attention .. how about reading what lake pee posted first.

and having said that. Why dont you just fuck off. Its blatanly obvious that you are stalking me and check for every post no matter what. Its really getting pretty boring and old. You are a lightweight with a huge stick up yor ass in regards of the 24 class president and his efforts to keep the 24's safe and fast. Instead of being such a dick, I have told you repeatedly to volunteer and make a difference by positively bring change and instead of ripping everything apart, do some positive fleet building.

 

 

Thor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Canadian built f22 with centerboard, short mast and no kite we rated

108 at the Pensacola trimaran regatta last spring.

I saw that 108 rating and was puzzled for sure but the lack of downwind sails would explain it, when you say short rig I assume that is the standard rig. I know that a lot of folks diss phrf but for some of us its the only game in town. Do we think the 22 is faster or about the same as the sprint/dash? .

 

Performance will depend on who is on the tiller, plus quality of sails etc. so individual results will always vary. For instance, a good sailor on a well setup Dash will be faster than a less skilled sailor on the short rig F-22 with cruising orientated sails, which is a very safe boat for cruisers.

 

However for equivalent boats and crews, the numbers favor the F-22, as it is lighter, has a lighter carbon wing mast, bigger floats, better lines with more buoyancy where needed, higher set beams with less windage, better foils etc etc. It is just an all new design with everything optimized. All the improvements are detailed (with comparison photos) on:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22.html

 

Meanwhile, we are currently setting up the reefing system for boom less main, details at:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/F-22Reefing.html

 

and below factory photo was taken this morning:

 

post-18231-0-97112800-1384465179_thumb.jpg

 

Hull numbers two and three are basically finished with windows just fitted, beams have already been assembled to hulls, and now only waiting on their carbon mast to be made, plus one trailer.

 

Would have had the first boats delivered months ago, had I not decided to build and supply mast and trailers as well, as these are a huge amount of work just in themselves. Much easier when trailers and masts just turn up at the door ready to go, but such trailers and masts can also be very basic and well behind the times.

 

The F-22 would not have been anything like it has turned out to be with just any old trailer or mast, and doing a modern 'state of the art' version of these was always a part of my original concept. But doing everything better does need a little more patience.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs That work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

post-32772-0-88891400-1384478489_thumb.jpg

Lake pee : Canadian built f22 with centerboard, short mast and no kite we rated 108 at the Pensacola trimaran regatta last spring

 

 

 

 

Thor

Yeeesh...didn't mean to start anything like this! By "we" I meant the GYA multihull rating committee, of which I am a member, didn't intend for that to be construed as personal ownership of the green F22...I do own a F242 which is nosed up on the beach on the stbd side of the F22, just out of the picture.

 

Here is another photo of the F22 Raise a Little Hull.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lake pee : Canadian built f22 with centerboard, short mast and no kite we rated 108 at the Pensacola trimaran regatta last spring

 

Just sayin.... before the town idiot tells peeps to pay attention .. how about reading what lake pee posted first.

and having said that. Why dont you just fuck off.

 

Thor

By "we" I meant the GYA multihull rating committee, of which I am a member, didn't intend for that to be construed as personal ownership of the green F22...I do own a F242 which is nosed up on the beach on the stbd side of the F22, just out of the picture.

 

Mike

Oooooooopsie............Looks like someone owes me an apology!!!! ;-)

 

You would think that with over 10 times the number of posts as I have, you would have some idea who some of the players are here. But once again you clearly demonstrate your ignorance and show that you don't have a clue about most things you post about.

 

Such an angry little man!!!

 

Regards,

 

***R. Thompson***

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just sayin.... before the town idiot tells peeps to pay attention .. how about reading what lake pee posted first.

and having said that. Why dont you just fuck off.

 

Thor

Hey Thor,

 

Remember the Corsair 24 Rudder Poll thread in which we were introduced, and you began your constant barrage of insults and Frat-Boy bullying??? Well, here's a little gem that I pulled from that thread.......

 

I have owned F24 mk II hull 121 "Littlewing" since i purchased her new in the spring of 1998, and i have raced her pretty steadily since then and I voted yes to the rudder upgrade even though i have no intention of upgrading. I am unaware of a "F-24 OD Class website"...please provide a link to it.

 

Mike

Maybe you should start paying attention to what people actually post around here.

 

Such an angry little man!!!

 

Regards,

 

***R. thompson***

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it wasn’t quite the Christmas we had hoped for, but a recent social gathering on my (house) deck gave those of us at the head of the F22 queue a better feeling of how the next few months will pan out. Ian Farrier was here last weekend meeting with myself (boat #2) and Ron Godwin and his son Ken (Boat #3).

 

Over a pleasant few hours we were able to talk through the final details of our boats that are not too far away now. We are both getting kits to Stage 2 with some subtle differences. Both boats will be coming with R rigs. I am keen to go boomless but the other guys are sticking with a conventional, although carbon, boom. I am getting a complete kit trailer and they are bolting the moulded tub onto their converted used power boat trailer frame. Both of us are going with the Doyle NZ sails and the splendid-looking carbon masts that have been the biggest part of the delay in these first deliveries. The Godwins have bought their deck hardware independently, but I have opted for the full Farrier kit so other buyers will be able to see just what they can get “out of the box”.

 

We have a great opportunity here to help each other with both of our boats based in the same (Cabbage Tree) creek in adjoining clubs. Ron and Ken have had extensive monohull racing experience and successes, so after we help each other get the boats on the water, the competitive fun should help further with development. Ian confirmed that there will be very little in the way of internal amenities (in the initial boats), so our developments in the way of galleys, porta-potties, and storage solutions may well end up as production options.

 

I personally have been lucky enough to spend plenty of time now on a few F22’s after my own TT 720, F24, and F27, so feel like I have a fair idea of how the new little boats will go. StickShift was the first boat I got to play on and race against, and the R rig in aluminium combined with a cuddy cabin showed just how fast these boats could go. That boat is incidentally for sale now in excellent condition if anyone wants to jump the queue! Next I did some extensive racing and our national championships at Airlie Beach on the Julian Griffiths built R version cuddy cabin Midnight Rain which has a clear coated carbon mast that I would be glad to be seen with in any social situation. The boat really smokes, and with a bit more time on the water will continue to improve and win races under the new owner. Recently I enjoyed a social race on the standard rig full cabin with centreboard version, Asteroid. This boat has a heap of room inside and shows the quality typical of Philippine builds. With the shorter alloy mast I think it is fair to say that this is a very friendly, but not quite as zippy, boat that you could launch in minutes and head off cruising anytime the weather is right.

 

So all we have to do is wait now for the masts and some sliding hatch mouldings to be competed, and the fun will make 2014 one hell of a year. I am probably heading across the ditch in a few weeks to make sure Ian gets things right (LOL) and to show how prepared I am for the delivery I have the Philippine shipping frames cleaned up and ready for the bits as they come out of the box.

 

Merry Xmas to all!

 

Peter Hackett

F22 Boom! #222

 

post-10329-0-99279100-1387273094_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the update peter

 

do you know if it's possible to hope for 10 hulls delivered in 2014?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Performance will depend on who is on the tiller, plus quality of sails etc. so individual results will always vary. For instance, a good sailor on a well setup Dash will be faster than a less skilled sailor on the short rig F-22 with cruising orientated sails, which is a very safe boat for cruisers.

. . . .

Yes remember a Dash is really just a modified F24. Bigger rig, bigger floats, but only as big as they could make them to still fit with the old F24 main hull and folding mechanism. Professional plan built F22s are about equal around the course with equivalent sailors aboard. The Production F22R should be significantly quicker around the course. Hopefully Peter Hackett will demonstrate that for us at the Aust Nationals at Pt Lincoln in February.

. . . . . .

However for equivalent boats and crews, the numbers favor the F-22, as it is lighter, has a lighter carbon wing mast, bigger floats, better lines with more buoyancy where needed, higher set beams with less windage, better foils etc etc. It is just an all new design with everything optimized. All the improvements are detailed (with comparison photos) on:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22.html

 

Meanwhile, we are currently setting up the reefing system for boom less main, details at:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/F-22Reefing.html

 

and below factory photo was taken this morning:

. . . . . .

Would have had the first boats delivered months ago, had I not decided to build and supply mast and trailers as well, as these are a huge amount of work just in themselves. Much easier when trailers and masts just turn up at the door ready to go, but such trailers and masts can also be very basic and well behind the times.

. . . . . .

Definitely worth waiting for the mast.

. . . .

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs That work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the update peter

 

do you know if it's possible to hope for 10 hulls delivered in 2014?

+1 Peter. Will you be ready for Pt Lincoln?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the update peter

 

do you know if it's possible to hope for 10 hulls delivered in 2014?

 

I know Ian will not be tied down to dates, and I can see now why his maxim is "It will be ready when it is ready".

 

Even though I was hoping to be on the water by now, I am reassured by history and the latest pictures. Obviously as a dealer I will say all the predictable things, but I am sure that this boat will continue in the Farrier production tradition.

 

The Haines Tramp product quality and output from a power boat factory in Brisbane IMHO has never been equalled by any sailboat manufacturer in this country (exclude dinghies). And those boats from the early eighties were decades ahead of their time.

The F27 ramped that success up even more, and I still miss my boat #33 IntrIIgue dearly. Built in 1989, it never failed to gobsmack anyone lucky enough to be invited aboard for a sail. The current owner still sends me taunting texts and emails weekly from Gladstone, either about the successes on the racecourse, or an ugly picture yesterday from an island somewhere of 11 mudcrabs in his float storage. Bast#$#$#$%##

 

Ian is obsessive about perfecting the first of these boats in every way, including the masts and trailers, and that is where the time delays are now. Other monohulls I have had developmental experience with were put on the water as sailing "plugs", and then the first moulded boats were pretty rough. Owners coped with that and just dealt with the fact that at resale time, everyone knew not to buy boat 1-5,6 and 7 were used for parts, 8 -12 were better, and any after that were the boats to look for.

 

When the moulds are finished for this little marvel, I am sure we will all possess our own pieces of equal near-perfection, and it is only the customization of our kits that will differentiate resale values. My boat will have dagger board and R rig with string sails, but still will have a "carry-on" furled cruising jib and all the cruising amenities inside. On the other hand some of the latest payers of deposits here have opted for centreboards and standard rigs with more durable sails, and one is only going to cruise the lakes. These guys are waiting patiently, and I think they will be rewarded.

 

When the moulds are complete I cannot see why the previous Farrier successes would not be repeated. So, yes Eric, I would be confident of at least that output.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"On the other hand some of the latest payers of deposits here have opted for centreboards and standard rigs with more durable sails, and one is only going to cruise the lakes. These guys are waiting patiently, and I think they will be rewarded."

 

I am boat #226 and that is excatly what I am ordering. The closer it gets the harder it is to wait.

 

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

boat #226?

so 226 hulls and /or plan sets/or sold deposits in the system sold up to the date of your order?

 

sheeet, that's not a bad start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

with the vast majority of orders being outside nz

 

in the northern hemi?

 

i guess once the current chch factory is popping out it's maximum monthly rate of boats

 

5? per month???

 

the A team will shift from series production to making a duplicate set of plugs and moulds for northern, asian and-or mexican? production

 

just going out on a flyer here Ian, no need to down tools to reply, keep working, keep the mystery :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think boat #226 might be sail number 226 which is production boat number 6.

Eric goes to the top of the class.

And Bill gets a pic from my mate's F22 centreboard standard rig boat in cruise mode last week. In the multifunctional way that only Farrier lovers can really appreciate and nod their heads, Graham took me out for a cans race, left the boat on the dock for the night, and then cruised down to a lagoon at the southern end of Moreton Island for a few days. It is a nice place to dry out in soft white sand and watch the world go by.

Water temp 23 C, Air 27. We like a white sand xmas down here.

post-10329-0-22311200-1387359615_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think boat #226 might be sail number 226 which is production boat number 6.

Eric goes to the top of the class.

And Bill gets a pic from my mate's F22 centreboard standard rig boat in cruise mode last week. In the multifunctional way that only Farrier lovers can really appreciate and nod their heads, Graham took me out for a cans race, left the boat on the dock for the night, and then cruised down to a lagoon at the southern end of Moreton Island for a few days. It is a nice place to dry out in soft white sand and watch the world go by.

Water temp 23 C, Air 27. We like a white sand xmas down here.

attachicon.gif20131211_084805_resized.jpg

That is correct. I am boat #6 of the production version. I think I now have a new screen saver. Thanks very much! I might be pushing a little here but if you have any more pictures can you please e-mail them to me? I would really like some interior shots to see just how big the interior is with the center board option. Thanks for a great picture.

 

Bill

a737man@yahoo.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I think boat #226 might be sail number 226 which is production boat number 6.

Eric goes to the top of the class.

And Bill gets a pic from my mate's F22 centreboard standard rig boat in cruise mode last week. In the multifunctional way that only Farrier lovers can really appreciate and nod their heads, Graham took me out for a cans race, left the boat on the dock for the night, and then cruised down to a lagoon at the southern end of Moreton Island for a few days. It is a nice place to dry out in soft white sand and watch the world go by.

Water temp 23 C, Air 27. We like a white sand xmas down here.

attachicon.gif20131211_084805_resized.jpg

That is correct. I am boat #6 of the production version. I think I now have a new screen saver. Thanks very much! I might be pushing a little here but if you have any more pictures can you please e-mail them to me? I would really like some interior shots to see just how big the interior is with the center board option. Thanks for a great picture.

 

Bill

a737man@yahoo.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I think boat #226 might be sail number 226 which is production boat number 6.

Eric goes to the top of the class.

And Bill gets a pic from my mate's F22 centreboard standard rig boat in cruise mode last week. In the multifunctional way that only Farrier lovers can really appreciate and nod their heads, Graham took me out for a cans race, left the boat on the dock for the night, and then cruised down to a lagoon at the southern end of Moreton Island for a few days. It is a nice place to dry out in soft white sand and watch the world go by.

Water temp 23 C, Air 27. We like a white sand xmas down here.

attachicon.gif20131211_084805_resized.jpg

That is correct. I am boat #6 of the production version. I think I now have a new screen saver. Thanks very much! I might be pushing a little here but if you have any more pictures can you please e-mail them to me? I would really like some interior shots to see just how big the interior is with the center board option. Thanks for a great picture.

 

Bill

a737man@yahoo.com

 

 

Try that again This may help keep the interest up 1 airbourne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I think boat #226 might be sail number 226 which is production boat number 6.

Eric goes to the top of the class.

And Bill gets a pic from my mate's F22 centreboard standard rig boat in cruise mode last week. In the multifunctional way that only Farrier lovers can really appreciate and nod their heads, Graham took me out for a cans race, left the boat on the dock for the night, and then cruised down to a lagoon at the southern end of Moreton Island for a few days. It is a nice place to dry out in soft white sand and watch the world go by.

Water temp 23 C, Air 27. We like a white sand xmas down here.attachicon.gif20131211_084805_resized.jpg

That is correct. I am boat #6 of the production version. I think I now have a new screen saver. Thanks very much! I might be pushing a little here but if you have any more pictures can you please e-mail them to me? I would really like some interior shots to see just how big the interior is with the center board option. Thanks for a great picture.

 

Bill

a737man@yahoo.com

Try that again This may help keep the interest up 1 airbourne

 

 

 

 

This time may be

post-20856-0-51724800-1387448466_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think boat #226 might be sail number 226 which is production boat number 6.

Eric goes to the top of the class.

And Bill gets a pic from my mate's F22 centreboard standard rig boat in cruise mode last week. In the multifunctional way that only Farrier lovers can really appreciate and nod their heads, Graham took me out for a cans race, left the boat on the dock for the night, and then cruised down to a lagoon at the southern end of Moreton Island for a few days. It is a nice place to dry out in soft white sand and watch the world go by.

Water temp 23 C, Air 27. We like a white sand xmas down here.attachicon.gif20131211_084805_resized.jpg

That is correct. I am boat #6 of the production version. I think I now have a new screen saver. Thanks very much! I might be pushing a little here but if you have any more pictures can you please e-mail them to me? I would really like some interior shots to see just how big the interior is with the center board option. Thanks for a great picture.

 

Bill

a737man@yahoo.com

 

 

Try that again This may help keep the interest up 1 airbourne

 

 

This time may be

 

 

That's the view I usually have of it, but last Saturday in lightish conditions I had to look at the other side of that big puple bag all the way home and "Daylight Robbery" aswell. Well done guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll see that Sknot and raise you some Rain.

Shot below is at Airlie Beach nationals crossing the stern of a photographer on a 44' carbon Schionning before we passed it and rounded Grassy Island. Top speed 20.5 in less wind than that, and regular 11 upwind.

Midnight Rain R rig, carbon mast, dagger board, cuddy cabin, yet room for four very close friends to sleep. Amazing boat built by Julian Griffiths, other sail and weight data on MYCQ OMR rating site.

And a little brag, I have been building some sails that the experienced sailmakers design and plot for me, and this spinnaker is one of mine.

post-10329-0-95038400-1387533549_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

looks to be working well

 

excuse my ignorance

 

looks like a furler at the end of the prod

 

but the spin looks too full to furl well....

 

so does it furl badly and then get dropped on the tramp?

 

top down furler?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No furler, just a block.

Have done a fair bit of racing on a big cat with such a furler and I am definitely not a fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

looks to be working well

 

excuse my ignorance

 

looks like a furler at the end of the prod

 

but the spin looks too full to furl well....

 

so does it furl badly and then get dropped on the tramp?

 

top down furler?

Bigger problem with furling spins in my experience is unfurling after furling badly. Basically it won't. I have twice been left with no useable spin for the rest of the race. Both times had to take the spin ashore and sort it out. Got rid of furler, no more trouble. Furler for sale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bad technique, bad furling cable and incorrect cable tension are the reasons furling won't work. Not saying this is you, but most multi sailors that have tried it, have used a sailmaker with no experience and are too tight to buy the proper top down furlers and proper torque cable. Will always be more difficult to furl a nylon Shute that is really full (I.e a slower design that needs fuller shutes - like Peter Hackett!! Vs a faster Div 1 style boat that can run laminate shutes that are straighter luffed and flatter)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought I had clarified but:

The furlers were not used on any of the F22 chutes we tried here.

The topdown furler we were not happy with was installed on a flat A3 kite made by a sailmaker very experienced with such kites. We tried many different tensions on the torque line, and it was good on a good day, heartbreaking on a bad day especially when a nice furl would not unfurl.

Even when furlers work well they shorten the life of kites by at leas 50% IMHO, but ironically lengthen the life of furled laminate screachers and jibs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ages ago, when I was getting interested in small foldable trimarans, I was seriously interested in the F-22 project. Now, ages later, I am happily sailing a Corsair 750 Sprint Mk II. But I am still following the progress of what seems to be a nice boat.

 

However I keep reading the "almost there" and "it took longer but it's now megatastic" phrases that I was reading long ago. Is anybody who does not believe in reincarnation seriously considering to buy a production F-22 now ?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not flaming, I know this is blasphemy. But will this ever happen ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ages ago, when I was getting interested in small foldable trimarans, I was seriously interested in the F-22 project. Now, ages later, I am happily sailing a Corsair 750 Sprint Mk II. But I am still following the progress of what seems to be a nice boat.

 

However I keep reading the "almost there" and "it took longer but it's now megatastic" phrases that I was reading long ago. Is anybody who does not believe in reincarnation seriously considering to buy a production F-22 now ?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not flaming, I know this is blasphemy. But will this ever happen ?

 

I hear you but remember that it is Christmas/summer holiday time in NZ. I'm working with a group out of New Plymouth and haven't heard squat out of them since a week before Christmas. I will start believing in reincarnation when I've seen a few boats delivered and an additional builder is announced. It seems like there are alot of F-24s on the market presently. The F-22 must have something to do with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ages ago, when I was getting interested in small foldable trimarans, I was seriously interested in the F-22 project. Now, ages later, I am happily sailing a Corsair 750 Sprint Mk II. But I am still following the progress of what seems to be a nice boat.

 

However I keep reading the "almost there" and "it took longer but it's now megatastic" phrases that I was reading long ago. Is anybody who does not believe in reincarnation seriously considering to buy a production F-22 now ?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not flaming, I know this is blasphemy. But will this ever happen ?

 

Interesting that you can't see any progress in the photos at:
Certainly not as fast as I set up Corsair Marine's factory (1984-1990) and got the F-27 into production, but even back then we were publicly called slow builders by a competitor as it took 2 - 3 years before we got any sort of production, the F-27 being a very new and unique design. However we soon swamped the competition with two boats every week, and, more importantly, every one just about perfect.
I only had minimal capital this time around, and did not want investors involved in the development stage again, so the F-22 has had to be developed on a 'pay as you go' basis. This has worked well so far, slow yes, but the boat has numerous completely new and much more advanced features, and there is no huge development debt hanging over everything to be paid back by higher prices.
There was also no fully setup factory with everything running like clockwork to just walk into, so I had to start right from scratch again, and just setting up a new factory with all the necessary equipment takes time and is not cheap. I instead started in the second bedroom of my NZ house, building the first Beam Mount molds, then progressed to the garage, then a one man storage unit:
post-18231-0-68920000-1388782440_thumb.jpg
First set of F-32 Beams ready to ship, and starting to run out of room
but have now progressed to a 10,800sq ft factory:
post-18231-0-74335900-1388782495_thumb.jpg
Plus, along the way, the F-32, F-32SR, F-85SR, F-44SC, and production F-33 have also been developed on the side, with many new features, which have all helped finance the F-22.
post-18231-0-15760400-1388783888_thumb.jpg
post-18231-0-24235400-1388782644_thumb.jpg
and of course such things as the all composite high aspect F-22 and F-32SR rudders
post-18231-0-92583500-1388787153_thumb.jpg
not to mention the curved lifting foils which were well ahead of anything else:
post-18231-0-49918800-1388787073_thumb.jpg
and nothing is happening?
It has always been made very clear from the beginning, that the F-22 was going to take time, and if anyone wants to sail now, then buy another boat. Just be careful not to don't pay too much for a copy where designer has not done his homework, or an old design with only cosmetic changes just to rush something on to the market.
For those who are interested in the F-22, and who don't mind the wait, it has now got to the stage where I consider it 99% finished, and can finally sign off on it as being ready for serious production. So, with the boat final configuration now set, I've begun working on the 2014 Specification and Price Lists, which will be greatly expanded to include all the new features, and set out exactly what comes in each stage in greater detail. Will be sent out this month.
Still much to do, but full production is getting close, but only in a controlled and systematic manner. After all these years I'm not going to cut and run now, just to rush something 'not quite right' out the door.

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs That Work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll see that Sknot and raise you some Rain.

Shot below is at Airlie Beach nationals crossing the stern of a photographer on a 44' carbon Schionning before we passed it and rounded Grassy Island. Top speed 20.5 in less wind than that, and regular 11 upwind.

Midnight Rain R rig, carbon mast, dagger board, cuddy cabin, yet room for four very close friends to sleep. Amazing boat built by Julian Griffiths, other sail and weight data on MYCQ OMR rating site.

And a little brag, I have been building some sails that the experienced sailmakers design and plot for me, and this spinnaker is one of mine.

attachicon.gifP8100028lowres.jpg

What do you estimate a production F-22R with standard cabin/interior and "class" sized sails would rate in OMR? I see that declared crew weight is somehow included in the OMR numbers so the ratings may vary on identically equipped boats.

 

I'm a bit surprise to see both the cuddy and standard cabin F-22R boats rating equivalent or higher than the lighter examples of F-82R boats in AUS. This is compared to the U.S. where the F-25C rates very quick. Do the F-82Rs boats have carbon rigs? Does the F-22R go quicker in light air vs the F-82R or vice versa? Just trying to wrap my head around the F-22R rating numbers.

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found the U.S. OMR ratings on the sfbama site. I see the two U.S. S.F. based F-25C boats rate 0.893. So is the F-22R really that much faster at approximately 0.92 rating? Am I reading this wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found the U.S. OMR ratings on the sfbama site. I see the two U.S. S.F. based F-25C boats rate 0.893. So is the F-22R really that much faster at approximately 0.92 rating? Am I reading this wrong?

That's interesting, U.S. OMR ratings. Every boat is an individual under OMR. For 2 boats to both rate 0.893 is very surprising. It would certainly be interesting to see the inputs for the OMR spreadsheet to achieve that. For example, were both boats weighed?

We don't have any f-25Cs in Aust and of course there is not yet a production f22 yet measured for OMR so any guess at its rating would be exactly that, a guess.

 

Crew weight is essential and makes an enormous difference.

 

I will look up and post some ratings for comparison but until a production f22 is measured we will be guessing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ages ago, when I was getting interested in small foldable trimarans, I was seriously interested in the F-22 project. Now, ages later, I am happily sailing a Corsair 750 Sprint Mk II. But I am still following the progress of what seems to be a nice boat.

 

However I keep reading the "almost there" and "it took longer but it's now megatastic" phrases that I was reading long ago. Is anybody who does not believe in reincarnation seriously considering to buy a production F-22 now ?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not flaming, I know this is blasphemy. But will this ever happen ?

Good to see you have followed Ian's advice and got into an available boat rather than waiting.

Pity more don't do the same rather than complaining.

It makes a lot of sense to me for Ian to 'get it right' rather than 'get it out'.

He could have built a production boat quickly and easily from his existing plans and put out a very good boat that wold have sold well but the production boat that will be available when it is ready will be so much better ha it is surely worth waiting for, as long as you are sailing while you wait. There are plenty of people on the waiting list so nobody should seriously consider buying a production f22 now, you can't, you can join the waiting list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'll see that Sknot and raise you some Rain.

Shot below is at Airlie Beach nationals crossing the stern of a photographer on a 44' carbon Schionning before we passed it and rounded Grassy Island. Top speed 20.5 in less wind than that, and regular 11 upwind.

Midnight Rain R rig, carbon mast, dagger board, cuddy cabin, yet room for four very close friends to sleep. Amazing boat built by Julian Griffiths, other sail and weight data on MYCQ OMR rating site.

And a little brag, I have been building some sails that the experienced sailmakers design and plot for me, and this spinnaker is one of mine.

attachicon.gifP8100028lowres.jpg

What do you estimate a production F-22R with standard cabin/interior and "class" sized sails would rate in OMR? I see that declared crew weight is somehow included in the OMR numbers so the ratings may vary on identically equipped boats.

 

I'm a bit surprise to see both the cuddy and standard cabin F-22R boats rating equivalent or higher than the lighter examples of F-82R boats in AUS. This is compared to the U.S. where the F-25C rates very quick. Do the F-82Rs boats have carbon rigs? Does the F-22R go quicker in light air vs the F-82R or vice versa? Just trying to wrap my head around the F-22R rating numbers.

 

Thanks

OMR answers are honestly too complex to do justice here.

Having said that I can declare that as a measuring officer for MYCQ, the arbiter of OMR, I have a reasonable handle on what is going on in this arena.

 

You won't have to search too far here and in other forums to find my complaints about the formula and how it is hits light little boats hard in comparison to heavier and bigger boats. Even within the F-boats it seems to me that a review is well and truly overdue, and your comment Eric is well noted. As an aside, I do not know how any group in the US can use OMR as it is our club's formula and to my knowledge is only shared with other clubs and associations in Asia, although it is quite similar to Texel.

 

While patiently waiting for my production F22, I helped the new owner of a cuddy plan built boat, Midnight Rain, get to the Airlie Beach Nationals. If you follow to the spreadsheet at http://www.mycq.org.au/OMR/index.htm you will see our bare rating at 0.928 before crew weight WCD of 240 kg brings the rating down to 0.852 (which I still think is too high). The production F22 will be lighter, and hopefully faster, so will rate higher again. We do not have any F25C boats but a similar F82R G-force (alloy mast) has a rating of .928 which reduces down to .859 with 300 kg crew. The question then is which boat is faster and by how much and we will not know that until I get boat #2 out of the container and onto the race course.

 

Each owner on OMR has to make decisions about various sail sizes, whether to carry a screacher at all, weight of crew and gear to carry etc, so the rating question is very complex.

 

I can say that while we were helping the new skipper/owner get used to his F22, we sailed it pretty well to get a fourth in the nationals. The boat has a huge potential, and I am as excited about racing my new boat as I am about cruising to new islands on the horizon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I'll see that Sknot and raise you some Rain.

Shot below is at Airlie Beach nationals crossing the stern of a photographer on a 44' carbon Schionning before we passed it and rounded Grassy Island. Top speed 20.5 in less wind than that, and regular 11 upwind.

Midnight Rain R rig, carbon mast, dagger board, cuddy cabin, yet room for four very close friends to sleep. Amazing boat built by Julian Griffiths, other sail and weight data on MYCQ OMR rating site.

And a little brag, I have been building some sails that the experienced sailmakers design and plot for me, and this spinnaker is one of mine.

attachicon.gifP8100028lowres.jpg

What do you estimate a production F-22R with standard cabin/interior and "class" sized sails would rate in OMR? I see that declared crew weight is somehow included in the OMR numbers so the ratings may vary on identically equipped boats.

 

I'm a bit surprise to see both the cuddy and standard cabin F-22R boats rating equivalent or higher than the lighter examples of F-82R boats in AUS. This is compared to the U.S. where the F-25C rates very quick. Do the F-82Rs boats have carbon rigs? Does the F-22R go quicker in light air vs the F-82R or vice versa? Just trying to wrap my head around the F-22R rating numbers.

 

Thanks

OMR answers are honestly too complex to do justice here.

Having said that I can declare that as a measuring officer for MYCQ, the arbiter of OMR, I have a reasonable handle on what is going on in this arena.

 

You won't have to search too far here and in other forums to find my complaints about the formula and how it is hits light little boats hard in comparison to heavier and bigger boats. Even within the F-boats it seems to me that a review is well and truly overdue, and your comment Eric is well noted. As an aside, I do not know how any group in the US can use OMR as it is our club's formula and to my knowledge is only shared with other clubs and associations in Asia, although it is quite similar to Texel.

 

While patiently waiting for my production F22, I helped the new owner of a cuddy plan built boat, Midnight Rain, get to the Airlie Beach Nationals. If you follow to the spreadsheet at http://www.mycq.org.au/OMR/index.htm you will see our bare rating at 0.928 before crew weight WCD of 240 kg brings the rating down to 0.852 (which I still think is too high). The production F22 will be lighter, and hopefully faster, so will rate higher again. We do not have any F25C boats but a similar F82R G-force (alloy mast) has a rating of .928 which reduces down to .859 with 300 kg crew. The question then is which boat is faster and by how much and we will not know that until I get boat #2 out of the container and onto the race course.

 

Each owner on OMR has to make decisions about various sail sizes, whether to carry a screacher at all, weight of crew and gear to carry etc, so the rating question is very complex.

 

I can say that while we were helping the new skipper/owner get used to his F22, we sailed it pretty well to get a fourth in the nationals. The boat has a huge potential, and I am as excited about racing my new boat as I am about cruising to new islands on the horizon.

Peter has said it all really. The Production F22 should be lighter than the plan built boats so should rate higher, if all else is the same. However all else won't be the same so it will depend on how all things measure up. Sail measurements are comprehensive and complicated. I have seen the same sail measure differently on consecutive days. We can speculate but we will have to wait for Peter's boat to find out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see you have followed Ian's advice and got into an available boat rather than waiting.

Pity more don't do the same rather than complaining.

It makes a lot of sense to me for Ian to 'get it right' rather than 'get it out'.

He could have built a production boat quickly and easily from his existing plans and put out a very good boat that wold have sold well but the production boat that will be available when it is ready will be so much better ha it is surely worth waiting for, as long as you are sailing while you wait. There are plenty of people on the waiting list so nobody should seriously consider buying a production f22 now, you can't, you can join the waiting list.

 

With all due respect, I was not following Ian's advice. It was common sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Good to see you have followed Ian's advice and got into an available boat rather than waiting.

Pity more don't do the same rather than complaining.

It makes a lot of sense to me for Ian to 'get it right' rather than 'get it out'.

He could have built a production boat quickly and easily from his existing plans and put out a very good boat that wold have sold well but the production boat that will be available when it is ready will be so much better ha it is surely worth waiting for, as long as you are sailing while you wait. There are plenty of people on the waiting list so nobody should seriously consider buying a production f22 now, you can't, you can join the waiting list.

With all due respect, I was not following Ian's advice. It was common sense.

Ian's advice is often common sense. Though I sometimes wonder how common sense is. Especially in those who try to to tell him what he ought to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.

why should he listen to those who do not 'own' ( oK 98%) of the design niche, like he does?

 

would Apple be steered by Samsung or android?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do mean Corsair, correct? They own the market much more so than Farrier Marine does and they actually build and deliver boats as the Lighthouse pointed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corsair does 'own' the market for new Trailable folding trimarans. Corsair makes the 'correct' marketing decisions and profits accordingly.

Ian could have made similar 'correct' marketing decisions and set up a factory somewhere with cheap labour and pumped out a satisfactory product and made a lot of money.

Being ego driven rather than profit driven, Ian did not want his name on a satisfactory product. So he does it his way despite everything that everyone tells him he should do.

And the winner is . . . . Ian Farrier's ego and eventually, the owners of production F-22s.

I think he should call the production boat the F-23 as it is so different to the plan built F-22 and is 23' long. He listens to what I say and has reasons for not following my advice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe once, but in Aus there is virtually no Corsair presence at all. Unfortunate for existing owners seeking support and even for potential owners who would once have seen ads or boat show presence. I was surprised at a NYE function to be collared by a stranger seeking assistance with corroded stainless bolts on his C28. He had spotted the Corsair logo on my shirt. The dealer who sold and supported many boats up until a few years ago just walked away from the franchise, and a string of names since then were supposedly holding the shingle up.

 

Farrier Marine, however, is up in lights with guys building plan boats, guys ordering new boats (another last week) and guys like me waiting patiently for our delayed xmas container. My wife is even excited at the prospect of boat parts downstairs exiting the house!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe once, but in Aus there is virtually no Corsair presence at all. Unfortunate for existing owners seeking support and even for potential owners who would once have seen ads or boat show presence. I was surprised at a NYE function to be collared by a stranger seeking assistance with corroded stainless bolts on his C28. He had spotted the Corsair logo on my shirt. The dealer who sold and supported many boats up until a few years ago just walked away from the franchise,

 

The dealer who had supported and represented Corsair and looked after owners throughout Australia for many years initially had part of the franchise taken from him and then was offered renewal of a limited franchise on terms that only a fool would accept. One more 'correct' marketing decision from Corsair.

 

and a string of names since then were supposedly holding the shingle up.

 

One person with a string of names, doing what he could under new Corsair ownership.

Corsair still does 'own the market' for new trailable folding trimarans. You can order a corsair now and have it in 6 weeks. Having back orders is very different from owning the market. However I think very soon Farrier Marine will take over the market when orders start getting filled.

 

Farrier Marine, however, is up in lights with guys building plan boats, guys ordering new boats (another last week) and guys like me waiting patiently for our delayed xmas container. My wife is even excited at the prospect of boat parts downstairs exiting the house!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me thinks, Farrier is, quality over quantity. ;)

 

Keep up the good work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That seems a bit unfair and besides why does this always have to turn into such a black and white argument when we should all be pulling for each other.

 

Good grief, to be fair there are a select few POS Farriers and Corsairs that I would would not feel safe on sailing across a large Bay, but there are many many more of both that I would be (and am) very happy to own and are an absolute joy to sail, race or cruise.

 

Keep hoping that someday this segment and threads will stop being endless pimping or trashing.

 

Peace and love; peace and love...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen pictures of both Stick Shift and Fleetwing with running back stays. Is there an Aussie consensus regarding running back stay necessity for heavy air racing? I'm talking about the F-22R specifically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you talking about plan-built F-22Rs or the potential production version?

 

Does only Aussie opinion matter?

I've seen pictures of both Stick Shift and Fleetwing with running back stays. Is there an Aussie consensus regarding running back stay necessity for heavy air racing? I'm talking about the F-22R specifically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You do mean Corsair, correct? They own the market much more so than Farrier Marine does and they actually build and deliver boats as the Lighthouse pointed out.

.

NO

i said the design niche, Corsairs folders all have DNA leading back to Farrier

 

Market ? hundreds of 22s are deposited I believe, vs. a trickle. (maybe zero C deposits in aus).

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

agree C are strong in marketing & distribution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen pictures of both Stick Shift and Fleetwing with running back stays. Is there an Aussie consensus regarding running back stay necessity for heavy air racing? I'm talking about the F-22R specifically.

 

The backstays are there for Masthead downwind sails

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You do mean Corsair, correct? They own the market much more so than Farrier Marine does and they actually build and deliver boats as the Lighthouse pointed out.

.

NO

i said the design niche, Corsairs folders all have DNA leading back to Farrier

 

Market ? hundreds of 22s are deposited I believe, vs. a trickle. (maybe zero C deposits in aus).

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

agree C are strong in marketing & distribution

Corsair owns the market until Farrier starts delivering. Deposits don't count. Plan built f22s don't count.

Corsair has owned the market for years, since the F-27. I predict Farrier Marine will take over a major proportion of the market in 2014.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've seen pictures of both Stick Shift and Fleetwing with running back stays. Is there an Aussie consensus regarding running back stay necessity for heavy air racing? I'm talking about the F-22R specifically.

 

The backstays are there for Masthead downwind sails

The hoist on this sail plan looks close to masthead and well above the cap shrouds http://www.farriermarine.com/pdf/57F-22RSailPlan.pdf I guess this sail plan is out of date since Midnight Rain's hoist is much shorter in the thread pic above?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen pictures of both Stick Shift and Fleetwing with running back stays. Is there an Aussie consensus regarding running back stay necessity for heavy air racing? I'm talking about the F-22R specifically.

 

Not a question that can be answered yet, as it will depend on final mast setup and stiffness around the hounds. The aim is to have the F-22R carbon mast strong enough in most conditions so that it does not need runners (and their extra complexity) to support any masthead spinnaker. May be a 'bridge too far', but being able to keep such lines off the boat would be a big plus. Not an issue on the standard F-22 however, as this does not need them.

In general, I'm trying to eliminate all the deck clutter and excess lines from the F-22, so as to avoid that old Biplane look present with many sailboats, and this is one reason why everyone's patience is being tested. We are currently trying various systems to get rid of the headsail furling lines off the deck, for one example. But other than that, and some bow pole aspects, the boat is about set, with only the inevitable little glitches to resolve, as things speed up.

However, only a skeleton crew present this week with Down Under summer holidays in full swing, so we are taking the opportunity to reorganize and retool the factory for more efficient production. It became bit of a mess after the earthquake repairs to our walls , and better storage of production materials, jigs, and all the molds has now become a priority. A well organized tidy factory usually gives a well organized tidy boat, and one that can be built more efficiently.

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You do mean Corsair, correct? They own the market much more so than Farrier Marine does and they actually build and deliver boats as the Lighthouse pointed out.

.

NO

i said the design niche, Corsairs folders all have DNA leading back to Farrier

 

Market ? hundreds of 22s are deposited I believe, vs. a trickle. (maybe zero C deposits in aus).

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

agree C are strong in marketing & distribution

To discuss market share we should talk about product in the market, not a promise or an idea and to just look at the AUS market is somewhat myopic, though it is still Corsair's market as others have noted. If looking world-wide then the players are Farrier, Dragonfly and Corsair, with Dragonfly and Corsair having far more boats produced, sold and sailing as I understand. Maybe that will change in your corner of the world (AUS) but we have been hearing that for a long time and it has not happened yet. A refundable deposit is not a boat. The F22 will likely be a much better boat than the Flying Tiger but sometimes the hype around it reminds me of the Flying Tiger project and look where that is now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well that flying tiger project was overhyped in part from nobody else than the ed ....as far as i know it more or less failed due to some crazy folks in the background, who didnt put the last effort into it to make the boat outstanding ....( for waht it was )

 

I dont think Ian is out to become the world leader in Trimarans and outsell Corsair in his first production year. He doesnt have anything to proove as the many happy Corsair Owners sailing with Ians Design quite succesfully.

 

If and when the F 22 will outsell the Corsair fleet, is not an issue, I think Ian is more concerned that every single boat he builts is better in many ways. With the F 32's out there and the F 33's built at the moment ( plus the 10 older F 33 ) he has outsold the Corsair C 36, s already ... ( pretty sure about that ) ....

 

Marketing.... is not always how much noise is out there, but also how customers get spares and help, there is for example a guy in Germany, who is trying since months to get a couple beam bolts ( the ones one can loose easily and have a wicked thread pitch ) he and the german importer seemingly having no luck finding a simple bolt ... thats also marketing ... a couple of nifty facebook entries alone dont cut it.

 

Marketing, Ian is concentrating of building boats, with a huge backlog of orders, why would he spend time and money for marketing at this time. ?

 

Best Thor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

You do mean Corsair, correct? They own the market much more so than Farrier Marine does and they actually build and deliver boats as the Lighthouse pointed out.

.NOi said the design niche, Corsairs folders all have DNA leading back to Farrier Market ? hundreds of 22s are deposited I believe, vs. a trickle. (maybe zero C deposits in aus). ---------------------------------------------------------------- agree C are strong in marketing & distribution
To discuss market share we should talk about product in the market, not a promise or an idea and to just look at the AUS market is somewhat myopic, though it is still Corsair's market as others have noted. If looking world-wide then the players are Farrier, Dragonfly and Corsair, with Dragonfly and Corsair having far more boats produced, sold and sailing as I understand. Maybe that will change in your corner of the world (AUS) but we have been hearing that for a long time and it has not happened yet. A refundable deposit is not a boat. The F22 will likely be a much better boat than the Flying Tiger but sometimes the hype around it reminds me of the Flying Tiger project and look where that is now.

Please tell about the Flying Tiger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flying Tiger was the name of the design. Anarchy's own Bob Perry designed the boat. Simple quick fast boats (mono 10m) who have had their fare share of success on the race track and great bang for your buck racing.

 

Builders messed up the business side of things, no doubting the boats ability.

 

I should add that the Editor here had one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

You do mean Corsair, correct? They own the market much more so than Farrier Marine does and they actually build and deliver boats as the Lighthouse pointed out.

.NOi said the design niche, Corsairs folders all have DNA leading back to Farrier Market ? hundreds of 22s are deposited I believe, vs. a trickle. (maybe zero C deposits in aus). ---------------------------------------------------------------- agree C are strong in marketing & distribution
To discuss market share we should talk about product in the market, not a promise or an idea and to just look at the AUS market is somewhat myopic, though it is still Corsair's market as others have noted. If looking world-wide then the players are Farrier, Dragonfly and Corsair, with Dragonfly and Corsair having far more boats produced, sold and sailing as I understand. Maybe that will change in your corner of the world (AUS) but we have been hearing that for a long time and it has not happened yet. A refundable deposit is not a boat. The F22 will likely be a much better boat than the Flying Tiger but sometimes the hype around it reminds me of the Flying Tiger project and look where that is now.

Please tell about the Flying Tiger.

The boat used to have it's own forum here on Sailing Anarchy. There were a hundred boats built which seems pretty successful in the crowded mono sport segment. Comparing Ian's update thread, and others discussing the F-22, to the SA Flying Tiger love fest is laughable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahem, where did you get that information from. Certainly not the factory or one of the two Australian distributors.

 

NO

i said the design niche, Corsairs folders all have DNA leading back to Farrier

 

Market ? hundreds of 22s are deposited I believe, vs. a trickle. (maybe zero C deposits in aus).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe once, but in Aus there is virtually no Corsair presence at all. Unfortunate for existing owners seeking support and even for potential owners who would once have seen ads or boat show presence. I was surprised at a NYE function to be collared by a stranger seeking assistance with corroded stainless bolts on his C28. He had spotted the Corsair logo on my shirt. The dealer who sold and supported many boats up until a few years ago just walked away from the franchise, and a string of names since then were supposedly holding the shingle up.

 

Farrier Marine, however, is up in lights with guys building plan boats, guys ordering new boats (another last week) and guys like me waiting patiently for our delayed xmas container. My wife is even excited at the prospect of boat parts downstairs exiting the house!

Again, Peter not sure where you are getting that from. I fully understand that you have skin in Ian's game, good on you and I hope it does well, but don't dis the competition with exaggerated commentary.

 

Anyone wants a Corsair I will happily sell them one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am only going on facts Andrew and had no idea until I just did a search that you are the latest in a string of names selling Corsairs.

I love Corsairs and am still tearing up when I look at shots of my Corsair F27 now in Gladstone.

 

But since Phil Day of MYSA let the dealership a couple of years ago that he had built up so well, I am aware that prospective buyers up in SEQ were googling their way to:

1 David Renouf in Sydney, then

2 John Stark and the other guy at Mooloolaba who bought New Tricks the Sprint Dash, then

3 At Manly, a guy whose name I can't remember jumped on an old Sprint 750 I was cleaning up for Airlie then handed me a David Bray Yachts business card and asked if the boat was a Corsair because he was the new Brisbane dealer.

 

Then,

4 Today I am glad to find that Corsair is in your safe hands now in conjunction with your Seawind dealership I assume? Great news for Corsair owners, and something I will help publicise and will immediately give details of to the guy mentioned a few posts back who is having trouble getting help with his recent buid Corsair.

 

I am certainly not exaggerating, but 4 names is a string and you know well that Corsair offered me the dealership somewhere between 2 and 3 when Corsair and Seawind appeared on the same shingle. I was committed already to the boat at the title of this thread, and am glad to be waiting for a fresher looking boat, but am sure the market has room for all the F-DNA-boats and their lovers in the world market.

 

See you on the water!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Stark worked for DR - as for the other guy - no idea but DR did buy David Bray so I suspect it was another part of that arrangement. The reality is that after Phil there was DR and his various connections and now me. Given Seawind own Corsair it sort of made sense to combine it in Qld at least for a start. And it has taken some time to rationalise as there were pre existing arrangements in place when Seawind purchased Corsair.

 

I am not looking to involve myself in any disagreement, you represent IF (as far as I understand) and thats good, lets just do a good job of each representing the people we do.

 

Corsair is in your safe hands now in conjunction with your Seawind dealership

As well as Outremer, want one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Renouf was working through David Bray before Seawind bought Corsair and was NSW distributor while Phil had the rest of Aust. David worked for Seawind briefly before buying David Bray's business and name.

David goes back a long way with Corsair and is very helpful with enquiries and supply of parts etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Maybe once, but in Aus there is virtually no Corsair presence at all. Unfortunate for existing owners seeking support and even for potential owners who would once have seen ads or boat show presence. I was surprised at a NYE function to be collared by a stranger seeking assistance with corroded stainless bolts on his C28. He had spotted the Corsair logo on my shirt. The dealer who sold and supported many boats up until a few years ago just walked away from the franchise, and a string of names since then were supposedly holding the shingle up.

 

Farrier Marine, however, is up in lights with guys building plan boats, guys ordering new boats (another last week) and guys like me waiting patiently for our delayed xmas container. My wife is even excited at the prospect of boat parts downstairs exiting the house!

Again, Peter not sure where you are getting that from. I fully understand that you have skin in Ian's game, good on you and I hope it does well, but don't dis the competition with exaggerated commentary.

 

Anyone wants a Corsair I will happily sell them one.

 

A little surprise - if you have a commercial interest then you should declare it, and not be posting anonymously on topics concerning a competitor.

 

As a competitor I have no problem with you posting whatever you like, but a least use your name so everyone knows where you are coming from. Maybe others (in Oz?) know who you are, but I don't, so what is your name and who do you actually represent?

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Anyone wants a Corsair I will happily sell them one.

 

.........said the anonymous poster!

From another anonymous poster!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Are you talking about plan-built F-22Rs or the potential production version?

 

Does only Aussie opinion matter?

I've seen pictures of both Stick Shift and Fleetwing with running back stays. Is there an Aussie consensus regarding running back stay necessity for heavy air racing? I'm talking about the F-22R specifically.

Yes, potential production version is my interest. Opinions from UK and other locations welcomed too. I like your mast building blog it looks like an interesting project. I am guessing for the production R rig that the running back stays would be a necessity for windy day, racing only, if at all. Since the production mast is not finished the recommendations aren't formulated yet. I'm actually just trying to steer the conversation back from the Corsair related trolling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Maybe once, but in Aus there is virtually no Corsair presence at all. Unfortunate for existing owners seeking support and even for potential owners who would once have seen ads or boat show presence. I was surprised at a NYE function to be collared by a stranger seeking assistance with corroded stainless bolts on his C28. He had spotted the Corsair logo on my shirt. The dealer who sold and supported many boats up until a few years ago just walked away from the franchise, and a string of names since then were supposedly holding the shingle up.

 

Farrier Marine, however, is up in lights with guys building plan boats, guys ordering new boats (another last week) and guys like me waiting patiently for our delayed xmas container. My wife is even excited at the prospect of boat parts downstairs exiting the house!

Again, Peter not sure where you are getting that from. I fully understand that you have skin in Ian's game, good on you and I hope it does well, but don't dis the competition with exaggerated commentary.

 

Anyone wants a Corsair I will happily sell them one.

 

A little surprise - if you have a commercial interest then you should declare it, and not be posting anonymously on topics concerning a competitor.

 

As a competitor I have no problem with you posting whatever you like, but a least use your name so everyone knows where you are coming from. Maybe others (in Oz?) know who you are, but I don't, so what is your name and who do you actually represent?

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

 

Its no secret, I am the Qld Seawind and Outremer agent and now Corsair. Andrew - Multihull Central 0402 345 245, and I have been known as OZMULTIS for years, published columns under that byline in many mags, (even did an interview with you for Multihull World many years ago :D ). So its no secret and I was trying to avoid using the forum to push a brand, but simply had to respond to the misinformation. And certainly Peter Hackett knew who I was and I was responding to him.

 

Also I didnt respond to topics concerning a competitor, I responded to a statement about Corsair. Nothing more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites