ianlf

F-22 Update

Recommended Posts

Yet another post by you Ian that is filled with lots of ego and lots of inaccuracies.

 

Inaccurate. You directly called out one person who was a competitor, not everyone, until you were politely asked to have your own folks do the same, which they still have not.

 

Inaccurate. I am very happy with the boat I own.

 

Inaccurate. I spend very little time here. You could have counted my posts in this thread on one hand. You and your representatives have 100s of pimping posts. I would have dropped this after the first post. You are the one continuing it.

 

Inaccurate. I am not complaining about the boat. As stated I think its a nice little boat that unfortunately is much more expensive, much later and still not available compared to what you claimed would be. I check in once in a while to see if they are being delivered yet, at what price, and how well they are holding up.

 

Inaccurate. I have no commercial interest relevant to this discussion to disclose.

 

Those are the facts. This is an opinion. This seems like a lot of wasted time and words from a simple request for you to have your representatives do what you are asking your competitor do. Perhaps energy would be better spent actually building the boat instead of pimping and calling out competitors.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yet another post by you Ian that is filled with lots of ego and lots of inaccuracies.

 

Inaccurate. You directly called out one person who was a competitor, not everyone, until you were politely asked to have your own folks do the same, which they still have not.

 

Inaccurate. I am very happy with the boat I own.

 

Inaccurate. I spend very little time here. You could have counted my posts in this thread on one hand. You and your representatives have 100s of pimping posts. I would have dropped this after the first post. You are the one continuing it.

 

Inaccurate. I am not complaining about the boat. As stated I think its a nice little boat that unfortunately is much more expensive, much later and still not available compared to what you claimed would be. I check in once in a while to see if they are being delivered yet, at what price, and how well they are holding up.

 

Inaccurate. I have no commercial interest relevant to this discussion to disclose.

 

Those are the facts. This is an opinion. This seems like a lot of wasted time and words from a simple request for you to have your representatives do what you are asking your competitor do. Perhaps energy would be better spent actually building the boat instead of pimping and calling out competitors.

 

So still unwilling to use your name to back your criticisms, which are again tending towards personal invective.

Just who is this representative of mine that is hiding his commercial interest?
You claim no commercial interest, claim to be happy with your current boat (still undisclosed), yet are not willing to back anything with your name.
My credentials are here:
and here
Right out in full public view. Where are yours?
Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am very thankful that a designer + manufacturer is on here providing updates for those of us who ARE genuinely interested in what is being developed, how and why...

 

So Ian's made some mistakes predicting price & availability... get over it...

 

I had to wait a little longer than predicted for my little Nacra 430, I paid for it up front, but i knew they would deliver a beautiful boat, and Nacra did!!

 

I think it will be better to wait for something of quality, and to buy from someone with a bit of pride, than to want something delivered yesterday, from someone who doesn't care who's name is on the product.

 

Thank you Ian Farrier for your efforts!

 

Now can we get back to business???? :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am very thankful that a designer + manufacturer is on here providing updates for those of us who ARE genuinely interested in what is being developed, how and why...

 

So Ian's made some mistakes predicting price & availability... get over it...

 

I had to wait a little longer than predicted for my little Nacra 430, I paid for it up front, but i knew they would deliver a beautiful boat, and Nacra did!!

 

I think it will be better to wait for something of quality, and to buy from someone with a bit of pride, than to want something delivered yesterday, from someone who doesn't care who's name is on the product.

 

Thank you Ian Farrier for your efforts!

 

Now can we get back to business???? :-)

Might just mention the excellent forum at F-Boat (not F-Boats) where we politely discuss all thing Farrier without being rude and without being censored.

Lots of intelligent discussion and useful information there.

 

Here on Sailing Anarchy we have just that, Anarchy. No censorship and very little politeness, hence the proliferation of pseudonyms.

 

So I too say 'get over it', if you want polite go for the F-Boat forum for farriers info and there are other forums for other areas of interest.

If you want anarchy and can live with personal abuse you are in the right place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yet another post by you Ian that is filled with lots of ego and lots of inaccuracies.

 

Inaccurate. You directly called out one person who was a competitor, not everyone, until you were politely asked to have your own folks do the same, which they still have not.

 

Inaccurate. I am very happy with the boat I own.

 

Inaccurate. I spend very little time here. You could have counted my posts in this thread on one hand. You and your representatives have 100s of pimping posts. I would have dropped this after the first post. You are the one continuing it.

 

Inaccurate. I am not complaining about the boat. As stated I think its a nice little boat that unfortunately is much more expensive, much later and still not available compared to what you claimed would be. I check in once in a while to see if they are being delivered yet, at what price, and how well they are holding up.

 

Inaccurate. I have no commercial interest relevant to this discussion to disclose.

 

Those are the facts. This is an opinion. This seems like a lot of wasted time and words from a simple request for you to have your representatives do what you are asking your competitor do. Perhaps energy would be better spent actually building the boat instead of pimping and calling out competitors.

 

So still unwilling to use your name to back your criticisms, which are again tending towards personal invective.

Just who is this representative of mine that is hiding his commercial interest?
You claim no commercial interest, claim to be happy with your current boat (still undisclosed), yet are not willing to back anything with your name.
My credentials are here:
and here
Right out in full public view. Where are yours?
Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

It must take a certain amount of raw nerve, ego or ignorance to demand what I am under no obligation to provide.

 

There was no criticism. I said I thought it was a nice little boat. That it is still not ready, and is much later and far more expensive than you promised is a fact that you admit yourself.

 

Criticism would be if I had said something like you are a has been or a one dimensional one hit wonder that designs relatively slow multihulls and pissed your business partners to the point you could not keep a company together. But I did not say that.

 

If you are unable to figure out which of your various representatives on this thread has not included their name and highlighted their affiliation with you in their signature I guess that says something.

 

Do you know how many of them have posted here?

 

Is being a customer a credential?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Yet another post by you Ian that is filled with lots of ego and lots of inaccuracies.

 

Inaccurate. You directly called out one person who was a competitor, not everyone, until you were politely asked to have your own folks do the same, which they still have not.

 

Inaccurate. I am very happy with the boat I own.

 

Inaccurate. I spend very little time here. You could have counted my posts in this thread on one hand. You and your representatives have 100s of pimping posts. I would have dropped this after the first post. You are the one continuing it.

 

Inaccurate. I am not complaining about the boat. As stated I think its a nice little boat that unfortunately is much more expensive, much later and still not available compared to what you claimed would be. I check in once in a while to see if they are being delivered yet, at what price, and how well they are holding up.

 

Inaccurate. I have no commercial interest relevant to this discussion to disclose.

 

Those are the facts. This is an opinion. This seems like a lot of wasted time and words from a simple request for you to have your representatives do what you are asking your competitor do. Perhaps energy would be better spent actually building the boat instead of pimping and calling out competitors.

So still unwilling to use your name to back your criticisms, which are again tending towards personal invective.

Just who is this representative of mine that is hiding his commercial interest?

 

You claim no commercial interest, claim to be happy with your current boat (still undisclosed), yet are not willing to back anything with your name.

 

My credentials are here:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/background/history.html

 

and here

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/FM-Factory2014.html

 

Right out in full public view. Where are yours?

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

It must take a certain amount of raw nerve, ego or ignorance to demand what I am under no obligation to provide.

 

There was no criticism. I said I thought it was a nice little boat. That it is still not ready, and is much later and far more expensive than you promised is a fact that you admit yourself.

 

Criticism would be if I had said something like you are a has been or a one dimensional one hit wonder that designs relatively slow multihulls and pissed your business partners to the point you could not keep a company together. But I did not say that.

 

If you are unable to figure out which of your various representatives on this thread has not included their name and highlighted their affiliation with you in their signature I guess that says something.

 

Do you know how many of them have posted here?

 

Is being a customer a credential?

There is no point trying to reason with Farrier. Seems he always has to have the last say....... The irony is his Aus rep getting on here and bagging the hell out of the Grainger 075 in another thread. Not exactly professional conduct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

There is no point trying to reason with Farrier. Seems he always has to have the last say....... The irony is his Aus rep getting on here and bagging the hell out of the Grainger 075 in another thread. Not exactly professional conduct.

You chasing me again Oomy? How about putting your name up here too or even msg me direct so I can tell who is stalking me and commenting on my professionalism, spinnaker issues, and even my views on the Nutts?

 

So let me get this right.

You are here lurking on an F22 forum and complaining about the F22 designer having the last say on some of the other lurkers' dribbling comments.

You are questioning my ability to make a Nutts comment on a non-Farrier thread when I clearly said I would love to own the boat in spite of its misgivings (which others must be aware of if it cannot sell for the cost of an old ply Trailertri).

You reckon there is irony here?

 

 

Must be time for us to all go sailing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It must take a certain amount of raw nerve, ego or ignorance to demand what I am under no obligation to provide.

 

 

 

 

There was no criticism. I said I thought it was a nice little boat. That it is still not ready, and is much later and far more expensive than you promised is a fact that you admit yourself.

 

Criticism would be if I had said something like you are a has been or a one dimensional one hit wonder that designs relatively slow multihulls and pissed your business partners to the point you could not keep a company together. But I did not say that.

 

If you are unable to figure out which of your various representatives on this thread has not included their name and highlighted their affiliation with you in their signature I guess that says something.

 

Do you know how many of them have posted here?

 

Is being a customer a credential?

One not game to give his name is no credential at all.
But now your true motives are showing for posting in this topic - you just want to spread dirt, but without the integrity to back your postings with your name. No facts or substance, just denigration and personal slights. You cannot even give one example of these representatives of mine who you claim are not disclosing their commercial interests while posting. Not even one? If you cannot name one then a least be man enough to apologize.

I also refused to let my former 'business partners' (as you call them) build any more of my designs, due to serious concerns about their quality controls and customer service, all well documented (with photos). Someone sure has pulled the wool over your eyes and fed you quite a line - but then how else could they explain it? Some of the stories they have put out may impress the gullible, but you need to start looking at what is actually done in the real world, the actual product quality, and how customers are actually treated. Are the people who fed you their line still around? I am.
I'm also sure they were pissed off (as you claim you did not say but did anyway) but I refuse to allow my name to be used to sell someone else's 'stuff' that is no longer to my standards. A justifiable concern as well demonstrated by the fiasco of that design by someone unknown which had all the serious structural and quality problems.
I also never had any company to keep together, as the guy who did own let it all fall apart by some very strange decisions. I did however build it up from scratch to have one of the best reputations in the business, but it is certainly no longer the market and quality leader it once was. The other company I am now building (which I do own) speaks for itself.
post-18231-0-64043400-1389545525_thumb.jpg
Why do you seem to have such a problem with things being done properly and to very high standards?
Ian Farrier
Farrier Marine
Designs That Work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Impressive shop floor, good on the non-china build program

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Must give you points for consistency Mr. F.

 

Be a man? Are you sure you have the gender correct? Can women not buy and own boats, sail or cruise in your view?

 

Spread dirt you say. Wrong again. You started throwing the stones. My opinion and request is unchanged.

 

One of your apparent representatives who does not list his relationship with you in his signature line made negative comments about competitor which the competitor corrected. You then called out the competitor for simply trying to state facts and acted much like blowhard you will tell me you are not by telling him he must list his professional interest while ignoring that your representative had not and still does not do same. But do spout on. It creates an interesting record if nothing else. All I have ever done is encourage you to shine the same light you shine on others, onto yourself.

 

Please do simply list your representatives that have posted on this thread and indicate if their name and interest with Farrier Marine is noted in each of their post's signature lines. Is it that you can not or will not? It is such a simple request. Perhaps he or they are not your representatives and I am wrong. They could even change their signature line and it would appear on all the back posts and you would prove me wrong even when I was right.

 

You commented about a company that is no longer the market leader. In this I admit you have tweaked my interest. Pray tell, what company has manufactured and sold the greatest number of production tris? Who manufactured and sold the most last year?

 

You also spoke of a company that speaks for itself. As I understand it there were no boats delivered in 2013, and what will be delivered is years behind schedule and costing thousands and thousand more than it was said it would be. I guess that does speak for itself.

 

I end where I began. Nice little boat that as you have said is late and over-budget. But still a nice little boat. Now shine the same light you shined on competitors and simply list your representatives that have posted on this thread here, list all of the SA names they each have used, and have them update their signature lines and be done with it. Its what you asked of others. Why so hard for you?

 

Or throw more stones. Your call.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Easy for one of the reps to do that LMI, but all the info is out on the web and magazines already.

 

I am the Aussie dealer as I have often stated here, and have recently changed my signature here from Plywood boy to Peter Hackett. I have no website yet but email is pha70516@bigpond.net.au or peterh@f-boat.com

Paul Butler has been in the business in the UK longer than I and his website is http://teamvmg.weebly.com/ with email teamvmg.f32@ntlworld.com .

Everyone else has found this information already at the end of http://www.farriermarine.com/pdf/F-22Specifications.pdf or already been aware with our large customer and sailing colleague base in our respective countries.

 

We are both also moderators of the uncensored F-boat forum which is the only thing growing in numbers faster than the list of F22 deposits paid!

 

Ian is looking after NZ and USA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the polite reply Peter. We met some time ago and out of respect I did not want to call you out.

 

The response is what I originally expected. I know the Ozmulti name and that it was associated with Corsair. I was not aware that you and Paul were working with Farrier, nor might any other casual reader of the thread without digging, because that business affiliation is not made clear when you guys post. Paul does not post under his name and just has an obscure website listed in his signature that I thought was or used to be a racing team, not a Farrier related business. You post under your name and have recently made reference to the Farrier business relationship in a post here and there but not in your signature so it does not appear when you post. I don't actually have any problem with that and only pursued it by asking Ian to practice what he preaches when a competitor who did not comment on the F22 and only corrected misstatements relative to his brand was attacked unfairly.

 

I intended you no harm and wish you all the best in your new venture. Hope you get your hands on a boat soon.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You commented about a company that is no longer the market leader. In this I admit you have tweaked my interest. Pray tell, what company has manufactured and sold the greatest number of production tris? Who manufactured and sold the most last year?

 

Easy - the company where I setup all the production systems to build my designs, which are still in use there today. It was producing two near perfect boats every week when I handed it off (plus a Hall of Fame Boat), so how could they go wrong? All they had to do was follow my extensive checklist production systems and laminate schedules, while using my marketing materials to sell, and two a week should not have been a problem. The only model they have ever designed from scratch is the C36/C37 so perhaps you can tell us how that went and how many have been sold?

 

But, as much as you are enjoying your little vendetta, I do have better things to do. It is getting to the exciting stage now where our first two boats are near shipping, and it's almost time to get the first container in.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that Work...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The response is what I originally expected. I know the Ozmulti name and that it was associated with Corsair. I was not aware that you and Paul were working with Farrier, nor might any other casual reader of the thread without digging, because that business affiliation is not made clear when you guys post. Paul does not post under his name and just has an obscure website listed in his signature that I thought was or used to be a racing team, not a Farrier related business. You post under your name and have recently made reference to the Farrier business relationship in a post here and there but not in your signature so it does not appear when you post. I don't actually have any problem with that and only pursued it by asking Ian to practice what he preaches when a competitor who did not comment on the F22 and only corrected misstatements relative to his brand was attacked unfairly.

 

You must have been the only person on Anarchy unaware that VMG (Paul Butler) is an agent for the F-22, with a website link on his posts, plus:

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=122260&p=4046398

 

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=122260&p=4016813

Right from just after he became the UK agent for the F-22 in fact.
Paul also built an F-32, so is also a F-boat owner, again not hidden
The only person hiding in the bushes is you.
Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that Work...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's not much more to add to my colleagues posts

 

 

I was of the opinion that my identity/status as a Farrier rep was there for anyone without too much cynicism to see. My 'Obscure' website keeps me very busy handling enthusiastic F-22 enquiries for the best part of Europe

 

 

I certainly don't intentionally use this forum as a sales pitch or tool to insult people/products, merely a place that can be used to keep like-minded enthusiasts informed. The ones that come here to start a row - I choose to ignore.

 

On reflection, it was probably a mistake to encourage someone else to 'use the forum as a sales pitch' properly

 

Regards

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I plonked down a deposit for an f-22 now, what is the best guesstimate on its production date?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the polite reply Paul. I could have chosen a better word than obscure and no offense was intended. I recall your website as one focused on your build and kids racing and not a business site and so did not think to link it to any business affiliation when I see it in your posts. I meant obscure with respect to a business link and I do apologize if that came across the wrong way or if I am recalling the history of the site incorrectly. I too am not so cynical and as I wrote to Peter, I think this is much to do about nothing. I would have left it long ago but for the bluster from the one and only. You and I agree it was a mistake to encourage someone else to use the forum as a sales pitch properly but I did not throw that rock; I only suggested he stand in the same light he shines on others. As with Peter, I sincerely wish you well in your new venture.

 

Mr. F., you have a certain humility that is hard to quantify without special diagnostic tools. Since apparently neither a woman or a customer has credentials in your world, I suppose I should watch Ellen on the tele but I am drawn to your charm and kind words however consistently indecorous they may be. While I was aware that Andrew represented Corsair, I was not immediately aware that Peter and Paul were representing Farrier. I realize you may feel that the sun, moon and stars should revolve around you and your very many postings, but no Mr. F., I suspect I am far from alone in this universe in not knowing who each of the Farrier representatives were, much as you were unaware of who was representing Corsair. That you apparently can't see the similarities there, or that both situations and organizations should be treated in a like manner is odd given your supreme intellect. I suppose I have a lot learn about the gospel according to Farrier. I can't even understand how you ever manage to not sink such a small boat and company with such a huge head.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I plonked down a deposit for an f-22 now, what is the best guesstimate on its production date?

 

That is a great question - any danger of a response? Myself and a few people I sail with were seriously considering putting down a deposit when it looked like boats were going to start rolling out of the factory (i think it was about a year ago). Since then it has been testing/systems/boomless/trailer/factory reshuffle/sweep the floors etc... and still no boats :(

 

I haven't ruled the productions F22 out as a great boat (the boats already out there seem ok already) but I am so glad I got ahead on my mortgage repayments rather than sitting around waiting, waiting and waiting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the polite reply Paul. I could have chosen a better word than obscure and no offense was intended. I recall your website as one focused on your build and kids racing and not a business site and so did not think to link it to any business affiliation when I see it in your posts. I meant obscure with respect to a business link and I do apologize if that came across the wrong way or if I am recalling the history of the site incorrectly. I too am not so cynical and as I wrote to Peter, I think this is much to do about nothing. I would have left it long ago but for the bluster from the one and only. You and I agree it was a mistake to encourage someone else to use the forum as a sales pitch properly but I did not throw that rock; I only suggested he stand in the same light he shines on others. As with Peter, I sincerely wish you well in your new venture.

 

Mr. F., you have a certain humility that is hard to quantify without special diagnostic tools. Since apparently neither a woman or a customer has credentials in your world, I suppose I should watch Ellen on the tele but I am drawn to your charm and kind words however consistently indecorous they may be. While I was aware that Andrew represented Corsair, I was not immediately aware that Peter and Paul were representing Farrier. I realize you may feel that the sun, moon and stars should revolve around you and your very many postings, but no Mr. F., I suspect I am far from alone in this universe in not knowing who each of the Farrier representatives were, much as you were unaware of who was representing Corsair. That you apparently can't see the similarities there, or that both situations and organizations should be treated in a like manner is odd given your supreme intellect. I suppose I have a lot learn about the gospel according to Farrier. I can't even understand how you ever manage to not sink such a small boat and company with such a huge head.

 

Just more personal attacks and insults from someone not even game to use their name. Sales must be bad.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine,

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I plonked down a deposit for an f-22 now, what is the best guesstimate on its production date?

 

Two to three years - we have over 70 orders now, and most seem happy to wait. It will likely be quicker, but I cannot guarantee that, as it will depend on how quickly we can ramp up production.

 

If you want anything sooner then buy another boat.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine,

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this is sailing anarchy and we should not be surprised at anything that is said here. IMO it would be much better if everyone revealed who they really are but that is not required on SA so let's get over that. Of course Ian will want to have the last word on anything that affects his professional reputation. Pity that not all critics/attack dogs do not reveal who they really are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So if I plonked down a deposit for an f-22 now, what is the best guesstimate on its production date?

 

That is a great question - any danger of a response? Myself and a few people I sail with were seriously considering putting down a deposit when it looked like boats were going to start rolling out of the factory (i think it was about a year ago). Since then it has been testing/systems/boomless/trailer/factory reshuffle/sweep the floors etc... and still no boats :(

 

I haven't ruled the productions F22 out as a great boat (the boats already out there seem ok already) but I am so glad I got ahead on my mortgage repayments rather than sitting around waiting, waiting and waiting.

 

Sounds like you may need to buy something else.

 

I've always been very clear that the F-22 is going to take as long as it takes, and it will be ready when it is ready.

 

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine,

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if I plonked down a deposit for an f-22 now, what is the best guesstimate on its production date?

IIRK you can't plonk down a deposit and the waiting list is so long that you won't get a production F-22 for a very long time.

Ian would recommend that you buy something else if you want to go sailing now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thank you for the polite reply Paul. I could have chosen a better word than obscure and no offense was intended. I recall your website as one focused on your build and kids racing and not a business site and so did not think to link it to any business affiliation when I see it in your posts. I meant obscure with respect to a business link and I do apologize if that came across the wrong way or if I am recalling the history of the site incorrectly. I too am not so cynical and as I wrote to Peter, I think this is much to do about nothing. I would have left it long ago but for the bluster from the one and only. You and I agree it was a mistake to encourage someone else to use the forum as a sales pitch properly but I did not throw that rock; I only suggested he stand in the same light he shines on others. As with Peter, I sincerely wish you well in your new venture.

 

Mr. F., you have a certain humility that is hard to quantify without special diagnostic tools. Since apparently neither a woman or a customer has credentials in your world, I suppose I should watch Ellen on the tele but I am drawn to your charm and kind words however consistently indecorous they may be. While I was aware that Andrew represented Corsair, I was not immediately aware that Peter and Paul were representing Farrier. I realize you may feel that the sun, moon and stars should revolve around you and your very many postings, but no Mr. F., I suspect I am far from alone in this universe in not knowing who each of the Farrier representatives were, much as you were unaware of who was representing Corsair. That you apparently can't see the similarities there, or that both situations and organizations should be treated in a like manner is odd given your supreme intellect. I suppose I have a lot learn about the gospel according to Farrier. I can't even understand how you ever manage to not sink such a small boat and company with such a huge head.

 

Just more personal attacks and insults from someone not even game to use their name. Sales must be bad.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine,

Designs that work

What difference would it make if your user name is your actual name or not. My name is Simon Tinley and I sail out of Perth. Changes nothing. I dont think anyone is that worried about the boat - I think its more the arrogance that ozzes out in all of this and the 'everything we do is right because its right' attitude. Your rep in Aus bagging a boat with minimal accommodation, will apparently flip on a dime and without the folding system is not the angle to take. Not everyone wants a Division 2 boat with accommodation and compromises. Maybe some diplomacy would work for you. Look forward to seeing the boats on the water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your rep in Aus bagging a boat with minimal accommodation, will apparently flip on a dime and without the folding system is not the angle to take. Not everyone wants a Division 2 boat with accommodation and compromises. Maybe some diplomacy would work for you. Look forward to seeing the boats on the water.

 

Hi Simon! Thanks for the ID, this would be a more fun place if everyone dropped their names.

There certainly have been a few raw nerves prodded on SA lately, most of it is just the continuation of post race barspeak, that we have all done for years. Some extends now to where a few cheap shots are taken from behind strange concocted names and when the identity of the cheap shooter is questioned, the bar quickly empties. I am the first to admit that this draws some debate from me that maybe should have stayed in the thought bubble, but I am only human.

 

The Grainger v Farrier debate has kept my rum glass charged for a long time, after racing with Mick Mck on the 075 Born to Run, helping Doug Trott roll the Hard Yakka at his boat rolling party ( I was there for his Farrier TT Knee Trembler as well), and countless other 075/070 experiences. I have chosen to hang the shingle for the next stage of my working life on the F-boats. For that reason, when a rocket is sent at "my" boats, I come in to bat, and I stand by my comments about the boats loved by the guy holding the RPG. Farrier boats are not perfect either, and I repeat my statement that I would love to have the money and a place for the Finger if the Brisbane clubs were not charging so much money for double width hardstands.

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely the whole "... too slow, its a compromise, old design..." type stuff is just water off a ducks back for the "Farrier Team" - the designs are obviously proven, and if you removed "F" boats from the fleets around Aus and the World it would be a sorry sight.

 

Peter - as a rep of these F22's you must have scored the easiest job in the world! Why? It takes a special type of customer to agree to hand over money not knowing when they will receive a product, or even for many what the final product will actually be. If I were you guys I'd kick back and just enjoy - clearly the long armed customers are coming to you! I think they are crazy... but hey, Ian keeps reminding us how many deposits he's taking. Second hand market is the one for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2-3 years is ok for my circumstances though it must seem like a long wait for some.

 

The product looks good and matches my anticipated future requirements. Thanks for the info, I will go back to lurking the thread for updates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely the whole "... too slow, its a compromise, old design..." type stuff is just water off a ducks back for the "Farrier Team" - the designs are obviously proven, and if you removed "F" boats from the fleets around Aus and the World it would be a sorry sight.

 

Peter - as a rep of these F22's you must have scored the easiest job in the world! Why? It takes a special type of customer to agree to hand over money not knowing when they will receive a product, or even for many what the final product will actually be. If I were you guys I'd kick back and just enjoy - clearly the long armed customers are coming to you! I think they are crazy... but hey, Ian keeps reminding us how many deposits he's taking. Second hand market is the one for me.

Absolutely right. If you can find the boat you want second hand you will save a lot of money and a lot of waiting. If the production F-22 is what you really want then get on the waiting list and buy something else in the meantime.

Peter made a fundamental mistake of selling the 'old' boat before taking delivery of the 'new' one.

He had the perfect boat to sail while he waited. Having 2 boats is better than having no boat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Craig and others,

In all honesty, the recently confirmed finite two year timeline promises (we all wish it was a shorter timeline) has helped the market here in OZ at least. We had a few tri's sitting too long on the market and that is not good news for new or used buyers. The market has kicked off and many Sprints, F24's, F28's etc have gone to good homes, albeit with reduced prices. One used F22 just went to Tassie, and the other may go soon. One of our biggest multi dealers here in Brisbane told me today that he only had a couple of days off over xmas with business on the roll.

 

Sorry if I bore you guys again, but this topic reminds me of the time when I was destined to build an 82R after feeling like a change from my F24. My dad asked "Do you want to build a boat or do you want to sail a boat?" So I hocked the jewels and got the 27, the best thing I could have ever done for my emerging sailing family. As Nuddy said, I should have kept it a little longer...

 

I don't think I would have survived the build and the torture board even though I still look jealously at 82R's. The way many of the last depositors and myself look at the wait is that there is a boat on the way with the dirty work being done offshore, and we "approximately" know when the glossy hulls will be on the lawn out front. Then the fun part begins!

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Stark worked for DR - as for the other guy - no idea but DR did buy David Bray so I suspect it was another part of that arrangement. The reality is that after Phil there was DR and his various connections and now me. Given Seawind own Corsair it sort of made sense to combine it in Qld at least for a start. And it has taken some time to rationalise as there were pre existing arrangements in place when Seawind purchased Corsair.

 

I am not looking to involve myself in any disagreement, you represent IF (as far as I understand) and thats good, lets just do a good job of each representing the people we do.

 

Corsair is in your safe hands now in conjunction with your Seawind dealership

As well as Outremer, want one?

I do. But I need to sell my F27 first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

John Stark worked for DR - as for the other guy - no idea but DR did buy David Bray so I suspect it was another part of that arrangement. The reality is that after Phil there was DR and his various connections and now me. Given Seawind own Corsair it sort of made sense to combine it in Qld at least for a start. And it has taken some time to rationalise as there were pre existing arrangements in place when Seawind purchased Corsair.

 

I am not looking to involve myself in any disagreement, you represent IF (as far as I understand) and thats good, lets just do a good job of each representing the people we do.

 

 

 

Corsair is in your safe hands now in conjunction with your Seawind dealership

 

As well as Outremer, want one?
I do. But I need to sell my F27 first.

Are you crazy?

Don't sell your F27 until you have taken delivery of the next boat.

If you are talking Outremer then what you get for the F27 will be insignificant in the cost of the new boat OR if you need to sell the F27 to afford the Outremer then you can't afford the Outremer regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

John Stark worked for DR - as for the other guy - no idea but DR did buy David Bray so I suspect it was another part of that arrangement. The reality is that after Phil there was DR and his various connections and now me. Given Seawind own Corsair it sort of made sense to combine it in Qld at least for a start. And it has taken some time to rationalise as there were pre existing arrangements in place when Seawind purchased Corsair.

 

I am not looking to involve myself in any disagreement, you represent IF (as far as I understand) and thats good, lets just do a good job of each representing the people we do.

 

Corsair is in your safe hands now in conjunction with your Seawind dealership

As well as Outremer, want one?

 

I do. But I need to sell my F27 first.

 

Are you crazy?

Don't sell your F27 until you have taken delivery of the next boat.

If you are talking Outremer then what you get for the F27 will be insignificant in the cost of the new boat OR if you need to sell the F27 to afford the Outremer then you can't afford the Outremer regardless.

Am I crazy? Well I guess that depends who you ask, Nuddy.

 

Thanks for the sage counsel from half a world away :-), but I think we have a good handle on the situation.

 

Even though the Outremer (or TRT, or Catana, or Chris White Atlantic) will most likely be used - I struggle to justify the high price and rapid depreciation of any new boats these days, especially for what are often dated or incremental designs - its still less a financial decision to sell the F27 before getting another boat and more a personal discpline. We once owned 10 boats. Fortunately only one was 6 figures but there were a few that were 5 figures. We loved and used them all but this was not exactly fiscially prudent and with the kids approaching college age its time to downsize in the toy department and find the perfect Mom and Dad boat. We still have more than 5 boats and so even when the F27 sells I have other assorted sail and power water toys for me and the family to enjoy while searching for the next multihull ride. And we are in no rush. The 27 is in about as close to perfect shape as it can be for our racing and cruising use so if it does not sell for what we want, we just keep enjoying that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mean to pee on anyone's picknick, but do you guys seriously believe that a 70 boat waiting list can be handled in 2 to 3 years? Or as somebody stated earlier, that the F-22s will grab a seizable part of the Corsair market share by the end of this year?

 

Don't get me wrong, I would truly love ot these nice boats out there on the water soon, but these numbers don't seem reasonable. Hopefully the depositors are very, very patient, in particular the later ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mean to pee on anyone's picknick, but do you guys seriously believe that a 70 boat waiting list can be handled in 2 to 3 years? Or as somebody stated earlier, that the F-22s will grab a seizable part of the Corsair market share by the end of this year?

 

Don't get me wrong, I would truly love ot these nice boats out there on the water soon, but these numbers don't seem reasonable. Hopefully the depositors are very, very patient, in particular the later ones.

I'd say yes. I don't know whether it will happen, but it's certainly possible. If you can pull two parts per day from each mold, you could theoretically build 10 boats a week. The rest is just a matter of having enough employees and materials. I don't think 1 boat per week is unreasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mean to pee on anyone's picknick, but do you guys seriously believe that a 70 boat waiting list can be handled in 2 to 3 years? Or as somebody stated earlier, that the F-22s will grab a seizable part of the Corsair market share by the end of this year?

 

Don't get me wrong, I would truly love ot these nice boats out there on the water soon, but these numbers don't seem reasonable. Hopefully the depositors are very, very patient, in particular the later ones.

2 to 3 years from when?

 

Don't start counting yet.

 

When true production starts (first 5? Boats are prototypes) it will run at 2boats/month?

24 boats/ year, 72 boats in 3 years.

 

As for (new boat) market share, what is Corsair's current output, 2 boats/month?

Even if it is, and it remains the same, then it will go from 99% of the new Trailable folding trimaran market to 50%.

 

Farriers depositors have been told no lies, they know what to expect, they know what they want and are willing to wait.

Many of them would be sailing Corsairs now and those will join the used market, further reducing new Corsair sales.

Buying second hand is always a better proposition if you can buy the boat you want. The only reason to buy a new production F22 is because there are no second hand production F22s

If I was in that market I would wait for the production f22 as there is nothing else like it. I believe it is far superior to the plan built f22.

But I would sail a corsair while I wait.

I am not in the market and I do have a very good sprint for sale and yes I did buy an ad on SA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they were building 2 F-27 per week at some point, they should be able to do that easily with the F-22: Ian has put a lot of thought and energy into making the F-22 production friendly (the major reason for how long it is taking to get the line going).

Once all the molds are done, he might need to hire some more hands and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be able to build several per week. There may be a few setbacks still and it will take several months to ramp up to that level but it certainly seems plausible as this is only requires 1 boat per week starting 6 months from now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this mean "When true production starts (first 5? Boats are prototypes) it will run at 2boats/month?
24 boats/ year, 72 boats in 3 years." that I am the first production boat?

 

Bill

F-22 #206

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mean to pee on anyone's picknick, but do you guys seriously believe that a 70 boat waiting list can be handled in 2 to 3 years? Or as somebody stated earlier, that the F-22s will grab a seizable part of the Corsair market share by the end of this year?

 

Don't get me wrong, I would truly love ot these nice boats out there on the water soon, but these numbers don't seem reasonable. Hopefully the depositors are very, very patient, in particular the later ones.

 

It all depends on having the boat set up properly for mass production (which takes a lot of planning and detail) and then sufficient financing so that the necessary molds can be made, the required number of parts can be ordered each month, and staff levels are sufficient. I'm nearing the end of all the details, and about to concentrate on the rest, more staff just added. We were producing 6 Tramps every week within a year of the initial launching, so nothing is impossible, but that was in an already well set up factory.

 

post-18231-0-18107900-1389919394_thumb.jpg

F-27 was a much more complex boat, plus a new factory also had to be setup from scratch, so it took longer to get to its peak of 2 per week. F-22 should be somewhere in between.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would imagine a large percentage of the 70 deposits are for boat kits instead of complete ready to sail boats. The kits should be significantly faster to get out the door? How's that mast coming along?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this mean "When true production starts (first 5? Boats are prototypes) it will run at 2boats/month?

24 boats/ year, 72 boats in 3 years." that I am the first production boat?

 

Bill

F-22 #206

 

Only boat #1 is a prototype, and all the others that will follow will be the full production version, and as good as they can be. We are spending the time testing and reworking #1 (as required) to ensure that all subsequent boats will be fully developed, and with only minor refinements anticipated. It is also still too early to predict how fast the production rate will be, and how quickly it will ramp up.

 

Be assured that we are working as fast as we can (within our budget), and all deposits are fully refundable if anyone cannot wait. But we are getting there!

 

post-18231-0-52365100-1389938064_thumb.jpg

Factory view as of last thing today. Boats #2 and #3 are now joined up, and trailer for #2

is nearing completion. #1 (on trailer at left) is undergoing some improvements in the wing

net area and is about to have its wheels changed as part of the development process.

More photos will be going up on the F-22 progress page this weekend.

 

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I struggle to justify the high price and rapid depreciation of any new boats these days, especially for what are often dated or incremental designs

Not always the case.

 

What did your F27 sell for when new? What are they selling for now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wes. I'm sorry but I struggle to understand why you feel the need to share that with us. If you can't afford it don't do it ! Who cares? Buy a used boat! Or if you want, sit at home.

 

I struggle to justify the high price and rapid depreciation of any new boats these days, especially for what are often dated or incremental designs

Not always the case.What did your F27 sell for when new? What are they selling for now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wayne - Chillax. The quote is out of context and was actually responding toa question from Nuddy about an Outremer we are interested in. Geeze, why so much anger in this thread.

 

VMG - Don't know the answer to that as true to my word, the F27 was purchased used as well. You or Ian might know original selling price new. Its a 94 formula version Corsair built F27. These days, they seem to sell between $35 - $45 USD depending on region and condition with some outliers on both sides I suppose.

 

Peace and love, peace and love,

 

Wess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, the guys saying this stuff about price then VS price now, never factor the difference in value then and now. 1985 dollars are not the same as today. I guess, though, that if it makes one feel comfy, then go for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wayne - Chillax. The quote is out of context and was actually responding toa question from Nuddy about an Outremer we are interested in. Geeze, why so much anger in this thread.VMG - Don't know the answer to that as true to my word, the F27 was purchased used as well. You or Ian might know original selling price new. Its a 94 formula version Corsair built F27. These days, they seem to sell between $35 - $45 USD depending on region and condition with some outliers on both sides I suppose.Peace and love, peace and love,Wess

Sorry about that Wes. I caught a momentary dose of Anarchy. Won't happen again! Seems all the negativity on this site is contagious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A dose of anarchy is good, and this is definitely the place for it.

 

I am still pretty much an anarchy newb, but the concept of speaking out loud an argument for the argument's sake, even in clear words and sometimes with loud words, is a very good one and needs to be protected. Would be a pity to loose that.

 

But why are all the Farrier threads and forums turning into churches, where a wrong whisper is picked up by the apostle's disciples, only to create an atmosphere where a dubious statement inevitably turns into flaming.

 

Back to true anarchy, guys. Discuss the arguments, forget about the crap.

We all love to sail fun boats. THIS is why we hang out here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would imagine a large percentage of the 70 deposits are for boat kits instead of complete ready to sail boats. The kits should be significantly faster to get out the door? How's that mast coming along?

 

Exactly right - a large percentage of orders is for kits, which can be produced much faster. Having already received over 70 deposits is a surprise for me too, as I think we only ever had a backlog of 14 max. with the F-27or two or three only at this stage, so certainly considerably more interest.

 

Masts are coming along slowly - but there's just one aspect that I am not happy with yet. Always easy to design something that works, not so easy to design it so that it works well and is easy to make. But almost there.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work….

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ian, will there be an opportunity for us locals to come have a good look at the first boats before the are shipped to Oz?

 

How would we find out about the time and place?

 

Thanks

 

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A dose of anarchy is good, and this is definitely the place for it.

 

I am still pretty much an anarchy newb, but the concept of speaking out loud an argument for the argument's sake, even in clear words and sometimes with loud words, is a very good one and needs to be protected. Would be a pity to loose that.

 

But why are all the Farrier threads and forums turning into churches, where a wrong whisper is picked up by the apostle's disciples, only to create an atmosphere where a dubious statement inevitably turns into flaming.

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with good discussions, or lively arguments, and having it all out in the open, uncensored, which is why I am happy to post and respond here, where many designers or manufacturers will not.

 

The only people flaming are those who don't seem to like the F-22's progress, or what I stand for, or just have a giant chip on their shoulder. They do not seem to have any substance or arguments to offer, but are happy to throw out insults and personal attacks, but not game enough to do it under their own name.

So if you don't like any opinion expressed here then feel free to say so, anonymous or otherwise, but at least give valid and well thought out reasons. Anonymous personal abuse or denigration is lame and pathetic, and not a substitute for substance and well reasoned arguments.

And for those who are interested in the F-22 topic, then more factory photos are now up at:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/FM-Factory2014.html

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ian, will there be an opportunity for us locals to come have a good look at the first boats before the are shipped to Oz?

 

How would we find out about the time and place?

 

Thanks

 

Ken

Sorry ken, but as stated on my website "our factory is not currently open to the public, as we are developing a totally new product, much of which is very unique and proprietary."
We are also not setup as a sales outlet and currently prefer to concentrate all our time on getting the F-22 up and running. Everybody loves to talk boats, and one common theme with factory visits in the past is that they can quickly snow ball in numbers, and soon stretch into hours. We don't have sales staff, and the only exception for seeing the F-22 factory right now (and briefly) is for those who have already made a deposit.
This will change as production volume is established, and we may have factory open days or demo sails sometime in the future, but most of this will be handled by owners or agents in the main sailing areas, or at boat shows. Right now we have to concentrate on getting boats to those who are already waiting.
Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only boat #1 is a prototype, and all the others that will follow will be the full production version, and as good as they can be. We are spending the time testing and reworking #1 (as required) to ensure that all subsequent boats will be fully developed, and with only minor refinements anticipated.

- - - - -

 

I guess it depends on your definition of prototype. Since # 2 and # 3 are built already while #1 is still being developed then presumably changes made to #1 will be made to #2 and #3 so they are not full production. Once #1 is finalised and reworking stops, boats produced from that point would be full production.

Boats #1, #2 and #3 will end up exactly the same as full production so no disadvantage owning one of those.

 

Every time Ian posts more pics the boat looks even better. I do expect a big impact on the market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was coincidentally in the neighbourhood of the factory this week for a bit of a holiday and to see what epoxy was holding my boat to the factory floor. You would expect me to sag it but the boat is awesome!

Nothing would have prepared my wife or I for the surprise of how much room there is inside, particularly in the front double. Other surprises I am not allowed to share.

 

I now know why these guys sail so well too. It howls every day. The water is frikking cold in summer.

And they all race and play with cool little boats all the time. I have never seen so many Young, Ross, Farr, Elliott, Whiting and other parochially designed little boats in hardstands or moored in keyhole anchorages around club hotspots.

 

Patience....

 

 

 

 

post-10329-0-79389600-1390727938_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New stuff up on Ian Farriers website, http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News4/FM-Factory2014.html

 

Mike, who does not represent Mr. Farrier in any official capacity whatsoever. But I have a deposit down on hull 7.

As I said before, every new pic makes the boat look even more impressive. I do like Ian's philosophy on toilets, if you must have one, at least put it outside overnight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter hackett is shy!!

He hasn, t said anything about his latest race.

A couple of weekends ago in the Surf to City race from the Gold Coast to Brisbane he helped to blitz the fleet on the F22 Midnight Rain. OK its an all carbon boat and they are all great sailors but they did an horizon job on us on my F82R Sprints and 750, s and 24, s. I wont mention that I was only 5 mins behind him and 5 mins ahead of the rest of the fleet when through ignorance and stupity we ripped our big kite and by the time we got it back on board we had been caught and he was gone.

sufice to say..... these little boats realy go !!!!

worth the wait I, d say

Congrats Peter.

Ian Jones. F82R in OZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter hackett is shy!!

He hasn, t said anything about his latest race.

A couple of weekends ago in the Surf to City race from the Gold Coast to Brisbane he helped to blitz the fleet on the F22 Midnight Rain. OK its an all carbon boat and they are all great sailors but they did an horizon job on us on my F82R Sprints and 750, s and 24, s. I wont mention that I was only 5 mins behind him and 5 mins ahead of the rest of the fleet when through ignorance and stupity we ripped our big kite and by the time we got it back on board we had been caught and he was gone.

sufice to say..... these little boats realy go !!!!

worth the wait I, d say

Congrats Peter.

Ian Jones. F82R in OZ

Is Midnight Rain a 22R or standard rig?

 

1airborne

f-22 #206

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

eazy, what were the wind conditions? The course was windward / leeward or long reaches? Midnight Rain is still fractional hoist spinnaker?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've pretty much answered my questions here http://www.vidpicpro.com/gallery/index.php?module=media&pId=102&id=31757&category=gallery/yacht-racing/SurftoCity2014/Inside%20Fleet%20Gallery&start=0/ Midnight Rain sure floats high in the water. Any particular point of sail where the boat seems quicker compared to other boats, or was it not in sight long enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've pretty much answered my questions here http://www.vidpicpro.com/gallery/index.php?module=media&pId=102&id=31757&category=gallery/yacht-racing/SurftoCity2014/Inside%20Fleet%20Gallery&start=0/ Midnight Rain sure floats high in the water. Any particular point of sail where the boat seems quicker compared to other boats, or was it not in sight long enough?

Thanks, I can't believe how high it sits in the water!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Midnight Rain has an R rig

The conditions were 10 to 15 knots.

The race is a passage race but most of it was a kite run with only 3 or 4 miles to windward. Flat water for half the race then out into the Morton bay chop and small waves

I, m impresed

eazy

If I were geting one of these boats I would go for the R rig, easyer to reef but Having the power in light conditions..... no contest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've pretty much answered my questions here http://www.vidpicpro.com/gallery/index.php?module=media&pId=102&id=31757&category=gallery/yacht-racing/SurftoCity2014/Inside%20Fleet%20Gallery&start=0/ Midnight Rain sure floats high in the water. Any particular point of sail where the boat seems quicker compared to other boats, or was it not in sight long enough?

Thanks, I can't believe how high it sits in the water!

Maybe Ian will have an all carbon option. B) I don't really think you'll need carbon hulls to have a descent weight given the production boat resin infusion over hand wet out and then bag. This is a cutty cabin version though so it would be lighter regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Limited email ability from southern end of south island nz. I think I have shared thoughts before but Midnight Rain is light but still not all carbon I think.

Compared to my F24 and F27 she is

 

a laugh to launch, sneeze and she is off,

surprisingly quick upwind in all wind,

blistering in tight reaching 2 or 3 sails, especially in good wind,

very dry,

easily motored even with a 5 hp single cyl 2 stroke

 

The closest other boats come to us is in deep downwind and waves where waterline is gold.

One thing to get used to is when you send crew to leeward hull in light conditions, and the

lee hull will just not depress.

 

The owner is still learning to sail her, so he has interesting times ahead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter hackett is shy!!

He hasn, t said anything about his latest race.

A couple of weekends ago in the Surf to City race from the Gold Coast to Brisbane he helped to blitz the fleet on the F22 Midnight Rain. OK its an all carbon boat and they are all great sailors but they did an horizon job on us on my F82R Sprints and 750, s and 24, s. I wont mention that I was only 5 mins behind him and 5 mins ahead of the rest of the fleet when through ignorance and stupity we ripped our big kite and by the time we got it back on board we had been caught and he was gone.

sufice to say..... these little boats realy go !!!!

worth the wait I, d say

Congrats Peter.

Ian Jones. F82R in OZ

 

http://www.surf2city.com.au/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should add that on our OMR handicap rating system, we only finished fifth I think. It will take a while for us to sort out the most optimal combination of sails and crew weights, due to the light weight of the boat.

Watch this space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peter hackett is shy!!

He hasn, t said anything about his latest race.

A couple of weekends ago in the Surf to City race from the Gold Coast to Brisbane he helped to blitz the fleet on the F22 Midnight Rain. OK its an all carbon boat and they are all great sailors but they did an horizon job on us on my F82R Sprints and 750, s and 24, s. I wont mention that I was only 5 mins behind him and 5 mins ahead of the rest of the fleet when through ignorance and stupity we ripped our big kite and by the time we got it back on board we had been caught and he was gone.

sufice to say..... these little boats realy go !!!!

worth the wait I, d say

Congrats Peter.

Ian Jones. F82R in OZ

 

Midnight Rain is an F-22R but not an all carbon boat - just a well built glass boat:

 

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News2/F-22Noosa.html

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should add that on our OMR handicap rating system, we only finished fifth I think. It will take a while for us to sort out the most optimal combination of sails and crew weights, due to the light weight of the boat.

Watch this space.

 

Note that the F-22 was never about being the best rating, or fastest boat in any fleet, and I took absolutely no notice of any measurement 'rule' while designing. It was always intended to be just the best all round boat and the most efficient, practical, and user friendly that I could design, not something that would rate well. Many monos have gone that route in the past, with some odd and distorted boats being the result, in order to win races under a measurement rule....
The F-22 will probably also be the smallest boat in most fleets, so trying to make it the fastest is a bit pointless. Just look at the comparison between an F-22 and a 30' racing cat with a rather massive rig:
post-18231-0-22870800-1390845480_thumb.jpg
The F-22 is instead intended to be lots of fun, fast enough to embarrass others at times, but without being too much work, too scary, or too expensive. I also prefer something really easy to trailer and sail, with enough room to enjoy all the many different anchorages everywhere, while being relaxed and in reasonable comfort. Another comparison between the F-22 and the bigger 30' racing cat shows that difference:
post-18231-0-49446300-1390845539_thumb.jpg post-18231-0-35796200-1390845563_thumb.jpg
Those who enjoy the challenge will no doubt look at tweaking sails etc so that the boat rates well, and hopefully without losing too much overall. It 's not something I have time for, but happy to pass on any changes over time that will improve results under a rating rule.
Ian Farrier
Farrier Marine
Designs that work..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FOR FUCKS SAKE,why do you feel the need to put other people down to try and portray your little boat as better?It just makes you look petty and detracts from the great job done with the F22.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FOR FUCKS SAKE,why do you feel the need to put other people down to try and portray your little boat as better?It just makes you look petty and detracts from the great job done with the F22.

 

You don't like facts or photos of how it actually is? Photos or facts are putting other people down?

 

Do you have anything more constructive to offer other than yet more anonymous personal attacks? At least be game enough to put your name on them.

 

I just like a design that is not too much work or scary to sail, while also preferring something really easy to trailer, with enough room to enjoy all the many different anchorages everywhere, while being relaxed and in reasonable comfort. A simple truth, and I see no reason to keep my view and preferences a secret.

 

I guess you don't like such boats - if not then tell us the reasoned advantages of an opposing point of view, and supported by facts and photos. But if all you have is more abuse then don't bother.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont worry Ian

most likely just scared shitless that his boat will be obsolete in the near future ....

 

:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Chittleborough Airlie Beach, good mate of Peter Hacketts,make you feel better?.You have come up with the biggest little boat possible and its a great little boat.The Raider was designed as the largest trailable cruising cat possible and it is also a great boat.As for which is better well that is a personal thing up to each owner.

 

Your way is not the only way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

FOR FUCKS SAKE,why do you feel the need to put other people down to try and portray your little boat as better?It just makes you look petty and detracts from the great job done with the F22.

You don't like facts or photos of how it actually is? Photos or facts are putting other people down?

 

Do you have anything more constructive to offer other than yet more anonymous personal attacks? At least be game enough to put your name on them.

 

I just like a design that is not too much work or scary to sail, while also preferring something really easy to trailer, with enough room to enjoy all the many different anchorages everywhere, while being relaxed and in reasonable comfort. A simple truth, and I see no reason to keep my view and preferences a secret.

 

I guess you don't like such boats - if not then tell us the reasoned advantages of an opposing point of view, and supported by facts and photos. But if all you have is more abuse then don't bother.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

With you all the way there Ian. Thanks for the photos and facts. Production F22 looks better every time you update. As you keep telling them, it is not primarily a racing boat but it will do a great job as one.

As I always say, personal abuse says more about the abuser than the abusee. No wonder the a users want to hide their identity.

I am surprised at the amount of space inside the 30' racing cat that you have chosen. I think mine has much less. But I am not complaining, it suits me and the compromises I am prepared to make for performance. I can still enjoy cruising on my racing boat and I personally prefer cats over tri's. I tried a Corsair and love it but still prefer a cat.

Certainly my 30' racing cat (with a slightly smaller rig than the one in your pic) would be very scary for a novice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

FOR FUCKS SAKE,why do you feel the need to put other people down to try and portray your little boat as better?It just makes you look petty and detracts from the great job done with the F22.

You don't like facts or photos of how it actually is? Photos or facts are putting other people down?

 

Do you have anything more constructive to offer other than yet more anonymous personal attacks? At least be game enough to put your name on them.

 

I just like a design that is not too much work or scary to sail, while also preferring something really easy to trailer, with enough room to enjoy all the many different anchorages everywhere, while being relaxed and in reasonable comfort. A simple truth, and I see no reason to keep my view and preferences a secret.

 

I guess you don't like such boats - if not then tell us the reasoned advantages of an opposing point of view, and supported by facts and photos. But if all you have is more abuse then don't bother.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

 

With you all the way there Ian. Thanks for the photos and facts. Production F22 looks better every time you update. As you keep telling them, it is not primarily a racing boat but it will do a great job as one.

As I always say, personal abuse says more about the abuser than the abusee. No wonder the a users want to hide their identity.

I am surprised at the amount of space inside the 30' racing cat that you have chosen. I think mine has much less. But I am not complaining, it suits me and the compromises I am prepared to make for performance. I can still enjoy cruising on my racing boat and I personally prefer cats over tri's. I tried a Corsair and love it but still prefer a cat.

Certainly my 30' racing cat (with a slightly smaller rig than the one in your pic) would be very scary for a novice.

 

 

So Nuddy is the name on your birth certificate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Chittleborough Airlie Beach, good mate of Peter Hacketts,make you feel better?.You have come up with the biggest little boat possible and its a great little boat.The Raider was designed as the largest trailable cruising cat possible and it is also a great boat.As for which is better well that is a personal thing up to each owner.Your way is not the only way.

Thanks David, nice to know who you are.

Perhaps I am wrong about rig size.

I agree that the Raider was not primarily designed as a racing boat and like the F22 it does an excellent job as one.

Largest possible? Widest hulls perhaps as wider hulls could not sit side by side and be legally Trailable. However I could certainly envisage hulls of the same width with more length being a bigger Trailable cruising cat. 40' hulls with the same hull beam as the raider would actually be my ideal but I can only afford a second hand 30 footer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Chittleborough Airlie Beach, good mate of Peter Hacketts,make you feel better?.You have come up with the biggest little boat possible and its a great little boat.The Raider was designed as the largest trailable cruising cat possible and it is also a great boat.As for which is better well that is a personal thing up to each owner.

 

Your way is not the only way.

 

Completely agree, and don't recall saying my way is the only way - I just expressed my personal preferences and beliefs. Anyone is free to disagree, and without being personally abused by me.

Informed factual discussions are always much more useful than any slanging match.

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Nuddy is the name on your birth certificate?

My full name and location is shown on every post as my signature. My personal profile (open for all to see) is truthful and correct. Nuddy is the name most people have used for me since childhood.

Your profile is blank and you have no signature

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

David Chittleborough Airlie Beach, good mate of Peter Hacketts,make you feel better?.You have come up with the biggest little boat possible and its a great little boat.The Raider was designed as the largest trailable cruising cat possible and it is also a great boat.As for which is better well that is a personal thing up to each owner.

 

Your way is not the only way.

 

Completely agree, and don't recall saying my way is the only way - I just expressed my personal preferences and beliefs. Anyone is free to disagree, and without being personally abused by me.

Informed factual discussions are always much more useful than any slanging match.

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Then stop slanging (???). Slagging (???)

 

You can add me to the list of folks who likes (and owns) one of the boats you designed (Corsair F27) but wishes you would stop beating up on others. It kills our multihull and trimaran community and instead contributes to the various camps and cliques that get formed within. Met and spoke with you face to face number of times and find it to be a pleasure but you seem a really different guy on-line. Doubt anything said here will be taken seriously, but yea, add me to the list of folks begging you to stop talking about others and focus instead on your own work. I actually tend to avoid the forums and threads because of it.

 

All my friends call me Wess, a contraction of the first and last names, Russell Wesdyk.

 

Peace and love, peace and love...

 

Wess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

David Chittleborough Airlie Beach, good mate of Peter Hacketts,make you feel better?.You have come up with the biggest little boat possible and its a great little boat.The Raider was designed as the largest trailable cruising cat possible and it is also a great boat.As for which is better well that is a personal thing up to each owner.

 

Your way is not the only way.

 

Completely agree, and don't recall saying my way is the only way - I just expressed my personal preferences and beliefs. Anyone is free to disagree, and without being personally abused by me.

Informed factual discussions are always much more useful than any slanging match.

Ian Farrier

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

 

Then stop slanging (???). Slagging (???)

 

You can add me to the list of folks who likes (and owns) one of the boats you designed (Corsair F27) but wishes you would stop beating up on others. It kills our multihull and trimaran community and instead contributes to the various camps and cliques that get formed within. Met and spoke with you face to face number of times and find it to be a pleasure but you seem a really different guy on-line. Doubt anything said here will be taken seriously, but yea, add me to the list of folks begging you to stop talking about others and focus instead on your own work. I actually tend to avoid the forums and threads because of it.

 

All my friends call me Wess, a contraction of the first and last names, Russell Wesdyk.

 

Peace and love, peace and love...

 

Wess

 

I'm the same guy Wess, in the flesh or online, and am always willing to discuss things openly and with civility. However, the personal abuse and insults from certain sectors on this forum who never seem to have any substance to back up their posts deserves to be challenged. They certainly don't seem to be game to do it face to face - it applies both ways you know.

 

Would thus appreciate you informing exactly where in my above post (which sparked the latest round of abuse and criticism) I was beating up on others? Please explain, and at least make it factual without the personal criticism.

 

Ian Farrier

 

Farrier Marine

Designs that work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know that you were beating on other designs, but for accuracy it should be pointed out that the Raider has two cabins to the F-22's single cabin. So your early post should have had three pictures in a row: F-22, Raider port, Raider starboard. Of course, different lens, fields of view, etc make photo comparisons very subjective. Comparison pics to the F-24 or F-27 would be more apt, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ian,

 

Respectfully, its a perception. Take it or leave it. Those that know me would not describe me as shy but I try to avoid airing dirty laundry in public. I would not have posted the interior pic of the Raider to take that shot at them. No need and maybe even misleading. When I saw the post, before anyone responded, I thought "here we go again" and for sure here we go... The whole signature thing with the Corsair guy when your own folks did not meet that standard was silly (in my opinion). And the list goes on and on but what is the point? Like I said, its just one person's opinion. I am no more right or wrong than anyone else and I don't have any interest in having a debate about it.

 

My interest is in bringing people together out on the water and growing the sport. I am always surprised - I race multihulls, dinghies, and monohulls - that there is more bickering and cliques in the multihull fleets (and especially in trimarans) than there ever was between the mono and multi guys and I wish people would spend more time building bridges rather than commenting on what is wrong with their neighbor's car. When I see the pic of the Raider and F22 both sailing, I think: "cool, two great boats." I would say the same thing if the Raider was a Seacart or an R33 or a Corsair, Grainger, or Dragonfly. No one better than the other; just different strokes for different folks. The way you post on line leaves me with an impression that you don't feel the same. Apparently David felt as I did and so I agreed with him. No right or wrong and it is what it is.

 

Peace and love, peace and love,

 

Wess

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geez, again... ?!

 

I propose to close this thread until the first production F22 has been delivered. Then re-open and share some real experiences.

 

This would save a lot of energy and time that we all would better spend on the water, or building boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites