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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Kent H

J BOATS J/70 Speedster

926 posts in this topic

I can't believe I would ever say that Clean wrote the only posts worth reading in the last 24 hours. But its true.

 

The rest of you? ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Snore.

 

Well, let me try one for the minority - it's the J forum, not the sport boat, right?

 

So, the boat is being marketed also as a family cruiser - a day sailor for a nice ride.

 

Is there anything much to this? That is, would it suit a single hander bringing perhaps a friend of two along for a sail, or is it overkill for that? Would you really need crew to run it correctly if you don't care about 1/10 of a knot or seconds per mile, etc.?

 

Or does the racing heritage or design components make it a little less of a family or leisure boat?

 

What do you think - will almost all of these be sold as OD racers and fleets?

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The Melges can be a nice family boat if desired to use that way (mainsail-only is always an option!), and its design is considerably closer to the edge of the envelope. I can't imagine the J/70 will be in any way unworkable or too hard to manage as you describe. I really doubt they blew it there.

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The boat still looks cooler than anything else in the J/stable right now,

 

Maybe but 1983 called and they want their keel back

 

 

Funny

 

Did it have wings?

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Not if it's painted white of light grey... clear coats need to be re-done every couple of years.

 

1333733498[/url]' post='3661133']

Well, let me try one for the minority - it's the J forum, not the sport boat, right?

 

So, the boat is being marketed also as a family cruiser - a day sailor for a nice ride.

 

Is there anything much to this? That is, would it suit a single hander bringing perhaps a friend of two along for a sail, or is it overkill for that? Would you really need crew to run it correctly if you don't care about 1/10 of a knot or seconds per mile, etc.?

 

Or does the racing heritage or design components make it a little less of a family or leisure boat?

 

What do you think - will almost all of these be sold as OD racers and fleets?

It looks like it will be very easy to single hand. Large cockpit and reachable layout ought to be friend and family friendly. One of my criterion for any boat really, and until fleets are established, we're all going to be day sailing the critter.

Whatever I decide, my next boat is going to be a modest downsize for me and must have a retractable keel. Looking forward to maintenance in my driveway without going up and down a ladder. Smaller blocks, lines, etc. all part of the appeal.

One question I have is the carbon fiber rig - any long term issues with leaving that exposed to the sun?

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So, the boat is being marketed also as a family cruiser - a day sailor for a nice ride.

 

 

This is not possible....

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So, the boat is being marketed also as a family cruiser - a day sailor for a nice ride.

 

 

This is not possible....

 

Yes it is.... Slap a cup holder on it and voila... Cruisin'

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oh wow, i never saw that, good eye.

 

Wait...you can grill using the afterburners!!!

 

fuckin-a, what will they come up with next?

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I dropped in on the two 70's sitting at the marina in Bristol today. Cockpit is indeed GIGANTIC and the hardware is very well laid out. Legs out hiking is going to be super comfy as long as the class can discourage people from having to bend themselves over the lifelines. The furler is a nice looking, clean bit of kit and the whole thing just struck me as well put together. While some people argue that a true sportie doesn't have a backstay I'm of the opinion that the ability it gives you to change gears makes it worthwhile - and the layout/implementation is well done on the 70 with a small crane (and possibly flicker?) and a block and tackle system led to the helmsman on either side.

 

I noticed that on the day NS tested their sails a flicker was present. Any verdict as to whether or not that's going to be implemented in the final boat?

 

WRT the keel... I must say that I agree with the anvil shape. Upwind the amount of lift it generates compared to a t bulb on a narrow strut seems very valuable. Not to mention how much easier it would be to keep in the groove for a novice helmsman, a group which will undoubtedly comprise at least some of the target market, especially in lighter air.

 

At some point I'm going to be in the market for a first boat of my own. This strikes me as something that someone could campaign for not too much money while still going fast and spending minimal time dealing with boat prep, moving it, etc. Keep it covered and on a trailer in your backyard in the winter and race the shit out of it with your friends in the summer.

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Does anyone know it the J70 will have a single point lift for a crane or will rolling off the trailer be the only launch option?

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Does anyone know it the J70 will have a single point lift for a crane or will rolling off the trailer be the only launch option?

 

 

It has a slick single point lift as well as the trailer launch option. Ill be going up for the dealer demo(I already sailed the boat a few weeks ago so I have seen the single point in person) on behalf of North Point Yacht Sales on Wednesday so if anyone has anyquestions PM me or better yet post them on here.

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Ill be going up for the dealer demo(I already sailed the boat a few weeks ago so I have seen the single point in person) on behalf of North Point Yacht Sales on Wednesday so if anyone has anyquestions PM me or better yet post them on here.

 

Could you post a picture of the "afterburners" ?

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It has a slick single point lift as well as the trailer launch option. Ill be going up for the dealer demo(I already sailed the boat a few weeks ago so I have seen the single point in person) on behalf of North Point Yacht Sales on Wednesday so if anyone has anyquestions PM me or better yet post them on here.

 

 

Thanks for both the information and the offer.

 

I'd like to know the basics on how the control lines are set up for the sprit, halyards, tack line, etc. I'd guess it is laid out like a J80, but they said you never have to leave the cockpit. Hard to tell where the halyards are, and if they go to turning blocks to let you hoist from near the companionway.

 

I assume you launch the kite from the companionway around and aft of the shrouds? How does the spin launch go with a crew of three?

 

Also would be interested in the specifics of the trailer, launching, how much the mast weighs, what attaches the forestay to the deck, can you leave the jib on the foil or does it have to come off for transport, how hard it is to rig and set up, how long it might take to go from trailer to ready to sail. What the total weight of boat and trailer is (and what the displacement of the boat actually will be).

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

 

Snapper,

 

 

I will try and get back with answers and pictures later this week.

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Ill be going up for the dealer demo(I already sailed the boat a few weeks ago so I have seen the single point in person) on behalf of North Point Yacht Sales on Wednesday so if anyone has anyquestions PM me or better yet post them on here.

 

Could you post a picture of the "afterburners" ?

 

EYESAILOR,

 

 

I will try but they may be too hot for my camera ;)

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Snapper,

 

 

I will try and get back with answers and pictures later this week.

 

Many thanks. Any details or perceptions from your perspective would be appreciated.

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It has a slick single point lift as well as the trailer launch option. Ill be going up for the dealer demo(I already sailed the boat a few weeks ago so I have seen the single point in person) on behalf of North Point Yacht Sales on Wednesday so if anyone has anyquestions PM me or better yet post them on here.

 

 

Thanks for both the information and the offer.

 

I'd like to know the basics on how the control lines are set up for the sprit, halyards, tack line, etc. I'd guess it is laid out like a J80, but they said you never have to leave the cockpit. Hard to tell where the halyards are, and if they go to turning blocks to let you hoist from near the companionway.

 

I assume you launch the kite from the companionway around and aft of the shrouds? How does the spin launch go with a crew of three?

 

Also would be interested in the specifics of the trailer, launching, how much the mast weighs, what attaches the forestay to the deck, can you leave the jib on the foil or does it have to come off for transport, how hard it is to rig and set up, how long it might take to go from trailer to ready to sail. What the total weight of boat and trailer is (and what the displacement of the boat actually will be).

 

Thanks again.

 

I am assuming it will be very similar to the U20 with halyard, sprit, and tack on one side, or halyard just forward of the companionway. easy to launch and retrieve by 2 people.

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Does anyone know it the J70 will have a single point lift for a crane or will rolling off the trailer be the only launch option?

 

 

It has a slick single point lift as well as the trailer launch option. Ill be going up for the dealer demo(I already sailed the boat a few weeks ago so I have seen the single point in person) on behalf of North Point Yacht Sales on Wednesday so if anyone has anyquestions PM me or better yet post them on here.

Thank you. Two questions.

1: What does it weigh? (bulb vs hull)

2: Has J come up with a novel way to protect the tailing edge of the keel when it is being lifted or lowered?

 

Regards,

~ Varan

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he's right , when racing there won't be leeward drops

 

 

Are you not familiar with leeward gates, Dave? Ya know: Stretch and blow, right turn, right gate....pretty common to have leeward drops in the M24 class for instance, but then again that is one design...

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s'95

 

racing no way you will launch aft of the shrouds

 

not unless you retrieved it that (wrong) way

 

seen the pics upwind in a breeze why are ppl still saying a crew of three

 

S.W. Reed

"And when I found that groove somewhere between high and pinchy and bow-down fast ... . With the three others sitting casually, legs out, I let the tiller extension float above my open hand, and the helm .... "

"With three bodies hiking under the single, low lifeline, "

 

Set

"During our ... and through the companionway as well. We used the latter technique and the mechanics were straightforward: the forward person launches the retractable pole and feeds the kite out of the companionway. The trimmer gets the tack to the pole and then goes to the halyard."

Douse

"The companionway douse was straightforward as well, and this is where crew selection would benefit having a smaller, more nimble person who is able to get low and forward near the shrouds for leeward drop. The clew is high and the foot fairly short, so shrimping incidences shouldn't be common. We did not attempt a Mexican, but I'm sure it would be the better move anyway."

he's right , when racing there won't be leeward drops

 

 

Weight

" but our sense was that somewhere in the vicinity of 600 to 620 pounds would be the likely range. Three-up would keep everyone entertained and make getting on and off the rail more fluid, but if I had it my way, I’d want three athletic 170-pounders and one petite or youth crew in the forward position."

 

_____________________________________________

 

whats the bulb weigh, whats the boat weigh

 

it's also high time the class rules re. crew restrictions & any weight restrictions are released

In AUS to race a trailable Elliott 7 effectively ( moderate not-extreme design, 550lb bulb) you would need 770 lbs (350k) of bodies, but don't think this is the upper limit, its closer to the lower

however they have been known to stack to 880 lbs (400k) and in one case 952 lbs (430kg) //// #2 link #3 link

"H sailed at 450 odd kg, winner at about 350 " (i.e 770lbs)

bear in mind its full road legal width 8' 2" on the Bmax levering that lower weight 770lbs , the j70 is not

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he's right , when racing there won't be leeward drops

 

 

Are you not familiar with leeward gates, Dave? Ya know: Stretch and blow, right turn, right gate....pretty common to have leeward drops in the M24 class for instance, but then again that is one design...

you're right i was talking single mark

 

with two marks x coming in on either gybe .... 4 drop scenarios

 

one of the 4 is a plain vanilla leeward drop, other 3 mex &/or windward drops

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If Clean can out think you at the gate Davey you're in a world of hurt.

 

It's no wonder you don't have you're own boat. A tactical wizz like you should be able to hold a regular ride at least.

 

Wassup?

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WRT the keel... I must say that I agree with the anvil shape. Upwind the amount of lift it generates compared to a t bulb on a narrow strut seems very valuable. Not to mention how much easier it would be to keep in the groove for a novice helmsman, a group which will undoubtedly comprise at least some of the target market, especially in lighter air.

 

I don't agree;

Uniform lift is key to good performance upwind. That keel will just make a mess of laminar flow.

You lose the valuable end plate effect that a t-bulb generates.

The keel also has to weigh more to have the same righting moment. Not good for a "legs in" boat.

 

At some point I'm going to be in the market for a first boat of my own. This strikes me as something that someone could campaign for not too much money while still going fast and spending minimal time dealing with boat prep, moving it, etc. Keep it covered and on a trailer in your backyard in the winter and race the shit out of it with your friends in the summer.

 

What the hell is a kid in his twenties (or maybe thirties by the time you can afford one) doing with an old man boat like this??

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WRT the keel... I must say that I agree with the anvil shape. Upwind the amount of lift it generates compared to a t bulb on a narrow strut seems very valuable. Not to mention how much easier it would be to keep in the groove for a novice helmsman, a group which will undoubtedly comprise at least some of the target market, especially in lighter air.

 

I don't agree;

Uniform lift is key to good performance upwind. That keel will just make a mess of laminar flow.

You lose the valuable end plate effect that a t-bulb generates.

The keel also has to weigh more to have the same righting moment. Not good for a "legs in" boat - Agreed, I see it becoming a legs out boat anyways.Also doesn't the increased chord length allow for a wider groove upwind with less propensity to stall?

 

At some point I'm going to be in the market for a first boat of my own. This strikes me as something that someone could campaign for not too much money while still going fast and spending minimal time dealing with boat prep, moving it, etc. Keep it covered and on a trailer in your backyard in the winter and race the shit out of it with your friends in the summer.

 

What the hell is a kid in his twenties (or maybe thirties by the time you can afford one) doing with an old man boat like this??

 

Hate hiking off hiking straps.

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WRT the keel... I must say that I agree with the anvil shape. Upwind the amount of lift it generates compared to a t bulb on a narrow strut seems very valuable. Not to mention how much easier it would be to keep in the groove for a novice helmsman, a group which will undoubtedly comprise at least some of the target market, especially in lighter air.

 

I don't agree;

Uniform lift is key to good performance upwind. That keel will just make a mess of laminar flow.

You lose the valuable end plate effect that a t-bulb generates.

The keel also has to weigh more to have the same righting moment. Not good for a "legs in" boat - Agreed, I see it becoming a legs out boat anyways.Also doesn't the increased chord length allow for a wider groove upwind with less propensity to stall?

 

At some point I'm going to be in the market for a first boat of my own. This strikes me as something that someone could campaign for not too much money while still going fast and spending minimal time dealing with boat prep, moving it, etc. Keep it covered and on a trailer in your backyard in the winter and race the shit out of it with your friends in the summer.

 

What the hell is a kid in his twenties (or maybe thirties by the time you can afford one) doing with an old man boat like this??

 

Hate hiking off hiking straps.

 

Why would be hiking on your own boat, espically in a class that will likely be owner/driver :blink:

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WRT the keel... I must say that I agree with the anvil shape. Upwind the amount of lift it generates compared to a t bulb on a narrow strut seems very valuable. Not to mention how much easier it would be to keep in the groove for a novice helmsman, a group which will undoubtedly comprise at least some of the target market, especially in lighter air.

 

I don't agree;

Uniform lift is key to good performance upwind. That keel will just make a mess of laminar flow.

You lose the valuable end plate effect that a t-bulb generates.

The keel also has to weigh more to have the same righting moment. Not good for a "legs in" boat - Agreed, I see it becoming a legs out boat anyways.Also doesn't the increased chord length allow for a wider groove upwind with less propensity to stall?

 

At some point I'm going to be in the market for a first boat of my own. This strikes me as something that someone could campaign for not too much money while still going fast and spending minimal time dealing with boat prep, moving it, etc. Keep it covered and on a trailer in your backyard in the winter and race the shit out of it with your friends in the summer.

 

What the hell is a kid in his twenties (or maybe thirties by the time you can afford one) doing with an old man boat like this??

 

Hate hiking off hiking straps.

 

Why would be hiking on your own boat, espically in a class that will likely be owner/driver :blink:

 

 

who;s going to buy drinks for the crew ?

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WRT the keel... I must say that I agree with the anvil shape. Upwind the amount of lift it generates compared to a t bulb on a narrow strut seems very valuable. Not to mention how much easier it would be to keep in the groove for a novice helmsman, a group which will undoubtedly comprise at least some of the target market, especially in lighter air.

 

I don't agree;

Uniform lift is key to good performance upwind. That keel will just make a mess of laminar flow.

You lose the valuable end plate effect that a t-bulb generates.

The keel also has to weigh more to have the same righting moment. Not good for a "legs in" boat - Agreed, I see it becoming a legs out boat anyways.Also doesn't the increased chord length allow for a wider groove upwind with less propensity to stall?

 

At some point I'm going to be in the market for a first boat of my own. This strikes me as something that someone could campaign for not too much money while still going fast and spending minimal time dealing with boat prep, moving it, etc. Keep it covered and on a trailer in your backyard in the winter and race the shit out of it with your friends in the summer.

 

What the hell is a kid in his twenties (or maybe thirties by the time you can afford one) doing with an old man boat like this??

 

Hate hiking off hiking straps.

 

I sailed with a crew like you once.

 

Hated Hiking.

No feel for using weight to steer the boat.

No interest in the thrill of water, foils and sails.

Sat on the rail like it was a bar stool.

 

I think the only reason he preferred sail boats over power boats was that if you get invited out on someone's power boat you are expected to bring the beer but on a sail boat the skipper brings the beer. I s'pose its a good a reason as any. But I really hope the J70 doesnt get populated by all the lard asses who dont like hiking. It will be a very dull class.

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WRT the keel... I must say that I agree with the anvil shape. Upwind the amount of lift it generates compared to a t bulb on a narrow strut seems very valuable. Not to mention how much easier it would be to keep in the groove for a novice helmsman, a group which will undoubtedly comprise at least some of the target market, especially in lighter air.

 

I don't agree;

Uniform lift is key to good performance upwind. That keel will just make a mess of laminar flow.

You lose the valuable end plate effect that a t-bulb generates.

The keel also has to weigh more to have the same righting moment. Not good for a "legs in" boat - Agreed, I see it becoming a legs out boat anyways.Also doesn't the increased chord length allow for a wider groove upwind with less propensity to stall?

 

At some point I'm going to be in the market for a first boat of my own. This strikes me as something that someone could campaign for not too much money while still going fast and spending minimal time dealing with boat prep, moving it, etc. Keep it covered and on a trailer in your backyard in the winter and race the shit out of it with your friends in the summer.

 

What the hell is a kid in his twenties (or maybe thirties by the time you can afford one) doing with an old man boat like this??

 

Hate hiking off hiking straps.

 

I sailed with a crew like you once.

 

Hated Hiking.

No feel for using weight to steer the boat.

No interest in the thrill of water, foils and sails.

Sat on the rail like it was a bar stool.

 

I think the only reason he preferred sail boats over power boats was that if you get invited out on someone's power boat you are expected to bring the beer but on a sail boat the skipper brings the beer. I s'pose its a good a reason as any. But I really hope the J70 doesnt get populated by all the lard asses who dont like hiking. It will be a very dull class.

 

I think it depends on how you define "hiking." HIking with your feet under straps off the side of a dinghy? Hiking of a trapeze on a high performance dinghy or cat? Hanging by your abs off the side of an "offshore" keelboat. I'm all for the former 2, but have no desire to subject my crew to the latter one. So I guess it depends. It'd be nice (from my perspective) to have a sport boat class that doesn't allow "hanging" as there are already plenty that do. But that's just me. Not sure why sitting vertically upright on the side with your legs over the side is not "hiking", but I realize its all in how we each define the term....

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Hate hiking off hiking straps.

 

I sailed with a crew like you once.

 

Hated Hiking.

No feel for using weight to steer the boat.

No interest in the thrill of water, foils and sails.

Sat on the rail like it was a bar stool.

 

I think the only reason he preferred sail boats over power boats was that if you get invited out on someone's power boat you are expected to bring the beer but on a sail boat the skipper brings the beer. I s'pose its a good a reason as any. But I really hope the J70 doesnt get populated by all the lard asses who dont like hiking. It will be a very dull class.

 

Excuse me but what?

 

I said I hated hiking off of hiking straps... because I just don't find it pleasant and it's not fun for me - It's why I detested racing dinghies (and why the V640/VX One aren't my first choices for a boat). Same thing for the awful, nerve pinching, style of hanging done in the M24 class. No that there's anything wrong with those boats or that it doesn't make me a big pussy but it just isn't my cup of tea. How does that translate into any of the the points you made? Have you met me? Have you sailed with me? Because when I'm at a buoy regatta as a one member of a team all trying win I'm the exact opposite of what you're suggesting.

 

And Lee; if I were to buy a boat I'd share the fun of driving with my crew in non-OD/beercan races.

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WRT "hiking", I've spent plenty of hours draped over the lifelines on M24's and keelboats of various sizes, hanging on the trapeze on 505's, and tucked under the hiking straps of numerous dinghies, so I've got nothing against "hiking" per se. However, my wife would really like to get on the water and go racing, but a back problem precludes the forms of hiking listed above, but does allow her to sit legs-out or legs-in on the rail. That would be a major appeal to her of a boat like the J/70 or the M20, and would make for a happier home life.

 

On the other hand, I'm also favorably inclined towards canting keels, so maybe I can talk her into Mini 6.5 proto. :D

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MrPelicano if the 6.5 Proto is of any real interest save your money and look at them or other boats with a higher performance range than the J70. Given all you would be is board and a bit disappointed that you bought the station wagon instead of the GT sedan version. LOL

 

Plenty of the new sport boats even the older one's sail very well and competitive with two and legs in. If your thinking nationals with full crew of course you need to hike and do a fair number of things to up your competitive level but pretty much all the sporties sail quite well with feet in. Shoot the wife and I did fantastic for many years double handed feet in relaxed racing on the U20. Heck several single handed guys do fantastic feet in on the U20. So this whole debate is a bit funny as we all know you can make this feet in vs hard hike out thing as painful as you like but it comes down the the class and those sailing in it to enforce and crack down on cheating to keep things logical and comfortable.

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Is there a U20 thread somewhere?

 

No?

 

Hey USA I've sailed Vipers very chill and legs in no hard hiking in some great conditions with just a couple of people on board the boat smokes along and is a joy to sail. You just work harder when the wind is up like SF 25 when you need your fee strapped down on the hiking straps. As I said all the new sport boats are quick compared to the heavy shit of years past and a wed night husband wife beer can is easily done on all of these boats with feet in and your still going to be sailing faster than the J24 with ragged out sails in the same Beer can race.

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Lookin' great @ 4:56

 

 

There's some reaching going on in that video, but the portion from 4:56 on looks like fun.

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Lookin' great @ 4:56

 

 

There's some reaching going on in that video, but the portion from 4:56 on looks like fun.

 

That looks like a lot of fun. Sure looks easy too. Those guys were pretty relaxed. Decent breeze too.

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I sailed the J/70 on Saturday right after I sailed the VX-One. Part one is done and should be up on the FP soon, and Part two (the J/70) will be up tonight.

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I sailed the J/70 on Saturday right after I sailed the VX-One. Part one is done and should be up on the FP soon, and Part two (the J/70) will be up tonight.

soon, as in tomorrow?

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I sailed the J/70 on Saturday right after I sailed the VX-One. Part one is done and should be up on the FP soon, and Part two (the J/70) will be up tonight.

soon, as in tomorrow?

 

How about....tomorrow?

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I sailed the J/70 on Saturday right after I sailed the VX-One. Part one is done and should be up on the FP soon, and Part two (the J/70) will be up tonight.

soon, as in tomorrow?

 

How about....tomorrow?

 

Ed put it up last night, which means J/70 review comes on tonight.

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May have been mentioned before, but Annapolis will be Fleet #1...Seattle and Lake Norman fleets also formed.

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Thanks for putting the vid up Blister / Clean ?.

 

 

Looks like a cross between a lot of different sports boats/yachts ie bit j80, bit platu in the hull, bit melges, bit SB3.

 

I like the size actually.

 

15.7 in what looks like 16-18 knts breeze with gusts of about 21 makes it a pretty good converting machine with the stability to hold the speed.

 

What is the EU retail with racing sails gonna be?

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Lookin' great @ 4:56

 

Is he deploying a drogue at about 3:45???

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Lookin' great @ 4:56

 

Is he deploying a drogue at about 3:45???

 

 

Not sure if thats a tounge in cheeck question or not but I do it all the time on my 22' er. Halyard goes overboard before the drop to keep it from being stepped on.. Halyard is of course water proof and floats. learned it from a Melges24 guy.

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Lookin' great @ 4:56

 

Is he deploying a drogue at about 3:45???

 

 

Not sure if thats a tounge in cheeck question or not but I do it all the time on my 22' er. Halyard goes overboard before the drop to keep it from being stepped on.. Halyard is of course water proof and floats. learned it from a Melges24 guy.

 

SOP in the Atlantic class as well. Toss the halyard overboard and it will always run free and clean

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Sorry. I was just trying to make a joke. I guess I should try it sometime.

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Sorry. I was just trying to make a joke. I guess I should try it sometime.

 

 

Great way of foiling Somali Pirates too.

 

Not a bad brake pad, I wonder at 17 knts if the kite will actually want to come down with this technique ;-)

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sorry for delays on my review. It is coming, that I promise!

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sorry for delays on my review. It is coming, that I promise!

Almost fell for it... I knew there really wasn't a FP. How about posting it here?

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I don't know, I am visiting CRW (not sailing in it this time) and the J70 hull has pretty nice lines, but my first thought about the sailplan was, you have to be kidding me. It looks horribly underpowered. I know it will have its place as the "old man's/safe/family-friendly" sportsboat, but that dumpy little rig on top of a sleek hull has me wondering. OTOH, it's a nice size and looks to be the offspring of a J24/J80 marriage. Undoubtedly things are pretty well sorted on it. But that sailplan looks almosts like a joke.

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I don't know, I am visiting CRW (not sailing in it this time) and the J70 hull has pretty nice lines, but my first thought about the sailplan was, you have to be kidding me. It looks horribly underpowered. I know it will have its place as the "old man's/safe/family-friendly" sportsboat, but that dumpy little rig on top of a sleek hull has me wondering. OTOH, it's a nice size and looks to be the offspring of a J24/J80 marriage. Undoubtedly things are pretty well sorted on it. But that sailplan looks almosts like a joke.

fail to see any resemblance to a j24, except for maybe the trailer. More like some cross breeding between the 90 and 22 IMHO.

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I don't know, I am visiting CRW (not sailing in it this time) and the J70 hull has pretty nice lines, but my first thought about the sailplan was, you have to be kidding me. It looks horribly underpowered. I know it will have its place as the "old man's/safe/family-friendly" sportsboat, but that dumpy little rig on top of a sleek hull has me wondering. OTOH, it's a nice size and looks to be the offspring of a J24/J80 marriage. Undoubtedly things are pretty well sorted on it. But that sailplan looks almosts like a joke.

 

The boom could be 1.5' longer

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"It looks horribly underpowered. "

 

I guess what matters is how does it do upwind in 22 knots and in 5 knots. I seems to be moving along fine upwind in the videos.

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Went for a demo sail on Saturday on hull number 1 in 8-10 knots. A really nice sail with a fun boat. It checks off enough boxes for me to be interested: easy to sail, fun, small cabin for kids to escape to, relatively quick, low crew requirements, easily trailerable, no wood, no complex systems, one design possibilities.

 

Anyone else from WLIS thinking about getting one? This is probably the biggest factor that is stopping me from pulling out the checkbook. Don't want to spend several years sailing PHRF hoping for a fleet and WLIS is not generally favorable to small keelboat fleets. The Melges 24 fleet was here and gone quickly, the J80s seem to have revived a little bit, and there are a couple of local only J24 fleets. Does the J/70 have a chance?

 

Drop me a line if you are in WLIS and are thinking about a J/70.

 

Chinook

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sorry for delays on my review. It is coming, that I promise!

 

<crickets>

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Drop me a line if you are in WLIS and are thinking about a J/70.

 

Chinook

 

 

I'm in WLIS and feeling the same way about the 70. Am worried that the Viper in Stamford, IHYC and Larchmont and the K6 at American have a solid first-mover-advantage.... it would be much easier to jump on the momentum of an existing fleet with dynamic leadership. Also, looking at the AYC Spring Series registrations it looks a bit anemic, at least compared to what I remember in the mid 00's and I wonder--no matter the boat--is anybody coming out to play given the economics and crew issues (though i think the 70 is a powerful response to both of those factors). I think there are a lot of people around looking for something more like a keelboat and this would hit the sweetspot, but getting them to commit and then get out on the race course has always been way more of a challenge than one one imagine. Please keep in touch with regard to the fleet development, if I saw a strong interesting in WLIS and one design starts that would move the needle for me. Regards

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Am worried that the Viper in Stamford, IHYC and Larchmont .... have a solid first-mover-advantage.... it would be much easier to jump on the momentum of an existing fleet with dynamic leadership.

 

no need to worry, just take the easy option

 

you forgot most numerous sportsboat class at CRW, Js and Ms were there but not as many as the Viper

 

it's good to be worried about competition, see \/ \/

 

" 6. Viper teams that included one AC sailor, 2 Olympians, the 5-0-5 NA champion, Soling NA Champion, Sonar NA champion, a top ranked Melges 32 skipper,Lightening NA champion, Last years Viper NA champion and Pan Am Champions, Australia's youth match racing champion, Interclub NA champion, 4 college All-Americans, Rhodes 19 NA champion, Snipe NA champion, 8x Shields NA champion, Ultimate 20 NA champion, two Rondar "works" boats, and a deep talent bench of amateur sailors. "

is that too hot for you ? if so a Jboat will suit you fine

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for WLIS I would wait to see if Noroton moves in some direction. Without them, I don't think you have a chance of a sustainable new one design fleet west of Middle Ground. Larchmont has fully embraced the Viper so for sportsboats, you're going to be hard pressed to start a third fleet. IMHO.

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Sailed my Vuper this past weekend in Charleston. They had the J70 cruising around our trying to show off a little. For a sportboat the Main looks small, boom is very short (in regard to cockpit). They were trying hard to get it to plane, sailing really hot boat never jumped up just pushed more water and finally broached, the boached again. This boat is going after the M20 crowd who don't what to hire professionals to sail with them, in my opinion, not the Viper, VX, or K6 crowd. I think for its market its a nice little package, but understand it is much much more of a keelboat than any of the other 20 ft sporties. Just my .02 cents.

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What, no review yet? Smells of conspiracy, I tell you...

The last thread about that lack of a report that I commented on magically disappeared.

I was hoping to read a "fair and balanced" review of the boat, but that doesn't seem likely anymore.

It would be interesting to understand the reasons for the delay, but that's probably not something we'll be privy to. We are just the readers, not the sponsors.

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A funny thing may be that quite likely 95-99% of us would have thought the review as written was positive and would have enhanced our image of the boat, regardless of probably not being written in J-speak (jets, afterburners, smokin' hot, firm buttocks, etc.)

 

Of course, it's also possible that delay could be for an unrelated reason.

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A funny thing may be that quite likely 95-99% of us would have thought the review as written was positive and would have enhanced our image of the boat, regardless of probably not being written in J-speak (jets, afterburners, smokin' hot, firm buttocks, etc.)

 

Of course, it's also possible that delay could be for an unrelated reason.

 

As with most "scandals", it's the lack of information that fuels the ridiculous speculation. Being a anarchic bunch, the clues left here only fuel speculation:

- statement that the test ride was taken right after enjoying the VX

- posted review of the VX with a statement that J/70 review will follow

- statement that the J/70 review was in the queue and would show up the next day

- statement that the review was coming soon "that I promise"

- mysterious deletion of a thread asking where the review was

 

to paraphrase my late father-in-law: I raised my kids (this website community) to be rebellious, I just don't like when they rebel against me.

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What, no review yet? Smells of conspiracy, I tell you...

The review is posted and it's well done.

 

On to another ridiculous conspiracy.

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Agreed, excellent review. Finally, at least to my take, straight and informative information.

 

As a side note, though the part about my being in agreement with the Ass from Australia is itself somewhat disturbing, now that we have the actual weight those that were criticizing my and his estimating separately that the boat would need to be about 1800 lb can now wonder how much basis they had for objecting. It's not rocket science folks.

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From what I can tell, the biggest critics of this boat are complaining it's not extreme enough. I thought the car analogy was apt. However, I don't want a shifter cart. I'd rather have the hot hatch. I like hot hatches. More importantly, Momma would approve the purchase of a hot hatch because it's practical as a daily driver. A shifter cart (or an Ariel Atom!) can only be used on track days. I think one of the reasons J/boats is so successful is they understand that in order to sell boats that they need to overcome spousal objections to what is essentially a toy.

 

If I were in the market for a new boat right now, I'd sign up for the J/70.

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What, no review yet? Smells of conspiracy, I tell you...

The review is posted and it's well done.

 

On to another ridiculous conspiracy.

 

I was just giving you guys crap...peace

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What I got out of the low tech review: The carbon spars are pretty.

 

Again, it's too bad that the sailmakers that sailed the things in RI are unable to post here.

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What, no review yet? Smells of conspiracy, I tell you...

The review is posted and it's well done.

 

On to another ridiculous conspiracy.

 

I was just giving you guys crap...peace

 

So was I. No offense was intended. Only self-mockery.

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What I got out of the low tech review: The carbon spars are pretty.

 

Again, it's too bad that the sailmakers that sailed the things in RI are unable to post here.

 

You mean like in post #384?

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Post #384 was not by any sailmaker but rather by a J Boat dealer.

 

It's not surprising that the sailmakers would choose not to post. It would not be professional to do so unless specifically asked by the client, really.

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Right now I'm relegated to the boats at the community center... not clear why that should matter to you?

 

When finances allow, the VX is appealing more than the J/70. To my taste the J/70 is plowing too much at the total weight with 600 lb crew, and I don't think it will do well with crew of 360 lb without trapezing, and trapezing seems odd for that boat. If business improves enough, I would go with the Shaw 650 even given the cost of importing.

 

But I don't think you really were interested: given your previous responses to my posts, I take the above as more of a snide remark.

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Post #384 was not by any sailmaker but rather by a J Boat dealer.

 

It's not surprising that the sailmakers would choose not to post. It would not be professional to do so unless specifically asked by the client, really.

 

It would be counterproductive to proffer ANY criticism of a boat that you are trying to become a one design provider for (I know, Captain Obvious here). So I'm not sure why the poster values the opinion of a sailmaker.

 

I value the opinion of Kerry and Timmy despite the fact that they are sailmakers. They've got just a bit more experience than Block. Just a bit.

 

And pro's avoid this place because it's a sewer.

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It wouldn't matter if it were Her Majesty's Own Royal Website: it would be unprofessional to post opinions about a boat unless asked to do so by the client or unless it's just indisputably exactly the sort of material that their own marketing people are putting out and definitely would approve of.

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I've seen many referances to the J70 being a scaled down version of the J80. If one were to substitute J80 for J70 in the Clean review would it still be accurate?

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Post #384 was not by any sailmaker but rather by a J Boat dealer.

 

It's not surprising that the sailmakers would choose not to post. It would not be professional to do so unless specifically asked by the client, really.

 

And Norman is also a partner in Quantum Sails, been a sailmaker far longer than he's been a J Dealer. Just sayin....

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Post #384 was not by any sailmaker but rather by a J Boat dealer.

 

It's not surprising that the sailmakers would choose not to post. It would not be professional to do so unless specifically asked by the client, really.

 

And Norman is also a partner in Quantum Sails, been a sailmaker far longer than he's been a J Dealer. Just sayin....

 

Thank you for the correction.

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Very nice review Clean. Encouraging that Clean sailed the boat in relatively light conditions which would expose its reportedly (rumored) underpowered sailplan but still like the boat. Would like to see a followup review after sailing in some breeze. That might seal the deal for a whole lot of people, not just former J owners wanting to downsize....

Seems like the perfect boat for Charlotte Harbor...

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Very nice review Clean. Encouraging that Clean sailed the boat in relatively light conditions which would expose its reportedly (rumored) underpowered sailplan but still like the boat. Would like to see a followup review after sailing in some breeze. That might seal the deal for a whole lot of people, not just former J owners wanting to downsize....

Seems like the perfect boat for Charlotte Harbor...

 

thats not the primary unexplained rumour issue, unfort. Clean got light weather

 

it's upwind in a breeze, with the ma, pa plus kid crew

 

this is exasperated by the deliberate lack of real data on bulb weight and OA weight, and deletion from the web of THAT photo

 

I say it need three adults over the side like THAT west coast pic, plus one or two backs to the lines

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Regarding your review.... setting the facts straight....pure innovation has made J Boats the Apple of yacht design.

 

J Boats biggest success has come via innovation. When the 1st J24 was built - it was a radical innovative boat designed to compete in handicap events under the Off Soundings Rule. It was so dominant that the order book filled and it became a one design by default. The "Mac." After designing many great products behind the J/24, in 1992/93 they changed the sport again with 2 innovative designs - the J/105 (iPad) and the J/80 (iPhone).

 

Rejecting the arbitrary notion that a "sport boat" must have a lifting keel (c'mon, once we need lead down there - who cares if it goes up and down) - J Boats was a major innovator of the entire category with the launch of the J/80. They also took amateur offshore one design to the next level with the J/105.

 

I know that it is popular for you to dismiss the J/80 as an old fashion design - but this point of view prioritizes "fashion" over real design innovation. Tthe fact is that if you gave Melges or anyone the following spec:

  • a planing sport boat
  • that could be wet-sailed
  • materials that allowed easy maintenance
  • $50K ish
  • hulls to remain competitive at the top level for +20 years

....even with 2000 computers and the latest FEA/CFD tools they couldn't beat the J/80 by more than 3%. When a design goes 25 years without being improved upon - that defines innovation! This is why we see +100 boat fleets at regattas in Europe where sailing and design rule over consumerism and fashion.

 

J Boats has built a brand and loyal following by remarkable design innovation of a handful of boats - including the J/80. Many of their products are strong, but more"me too" and leverage the brand following. As to the 70, it seems to be in the later category.....so I guess I am largely agreeing with your take on the boat....just can't take the J/80 without some defense..

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I've seen many referances to the J70 being a scaled down version of the J80. If one were to substitute J80 for J70 in the Clean review would it still be accurate?

I sailed the boat several times this past weekend in Charleston. I am not in the boating industry. I used to sail a J80 called Monster Lady #63 years ago. We had some successes and won some events so I feel I know the 80 as well as anyone. I can tell you the boats are similar in concept, but sail very differently. The 70 is much more fun to helm and will reward a good helmsman more than the 80. It accelerates and responds faster and gives better feedback. Although not a rocket it will get a full plane on a run in 11 or 12 knots. The 80 needs about 5 knots more to the same. My first sail was double handed. The boat was easily sailed by 2 up and down wind with the chute. 3 crew was comfortable. 4 would leave someone with absolutely nothing to do. I came off the boat each time with a smile on my face. It is a very comfortable boat to sail. None of the controls pull very hard, the seating both legs in and out are similar to the 80 which I mean to say is good. It is a boat that can be sailed to high level without a lot of muscle. I feel this is important as there are some great sailors who are not in the best shape due to age or just poor conditioning who would love the chance to compete in sporty boat. The 70 will give them a chance.

 

I rigged and launched the 70 and the difference between the two boats here is huge. No crane or gin pole needed. Ramp launchable (this is what we did) and no need for a large SUV. A midsized one will do just fine. The keel up and down using a battery powered hand drill worked great.

 

As for comparisons to the viper and vx (almost the same boat by my eye). It is similar but different. The biggest difference is muscle. Admit it or not, but to compete at the top of these classes you must be great shape. You must be able to hike hard, tack and jibe fast, squat or be on your knees while being nimble and the controls can really load up. This is great. I am glad there are boats that push the crews to limit and reward them for it. The 70 is for those that can't or don't want to work so hard and still be able to compete at the top of the class. The sad truth is to get this some performance must be sacrificed. I think the J70 handles this balancing act rather well. Another plus is that if you have girls on your crew, the small cabin will make a huge differeance. They won't have to dehydrate themselves because there is no place for "relief."

 

Flame away.

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Regarding your review.... setting the facts straight....pure innovation has made J Boats the Apple of yacht design.

 

J Boats biggest success has come via innovation. When the 1st J24 was built - it was a radical innovative boat designed to compete in handicap events under the Off Soundings Rule. It was so dominant that the order book filled and it became a one design by default. The "Mac." After designing many great products behind the J/24, in 1992/93 they changed the sport again with 2 innovative designs - the J/105 (iPad) and the J/80 (iPhone).

 

Rejecting the arbitrary notion that a "sport boat" must have a lifting keel (c'mon, once we need lead down there - who cares if it goes up and down) - J Boats was a major innovator of the entire category with the launch of the J/80. They also took amateur offshore one design to the next level with the J/105.

 

I know that it is popular for you to dismiss the J/80 as an old fashion design - but this point of view prioritizes "fashion" over real design innovation. Tthe fact is that if you gave Melges or anyone the following spec:

  • a planing sport boat
  • that could be wet-sailed
  • materials that allowed easy maintenance
  • $50K ish
  • hulls to remain competitive at the top level for +20 years

....even with 2000 computers and the latest FEA/CFD tools they couldn't beat the J/80 by more than 3%. When a design goes 25 years without being improved upon - that defines innovation! This is why we see +100 boat fleets at regattas in Europe where sailing and design rule over consumerism and fashion.

 

J Boats has built a brand and loyal following by remarkable design innovation of a handful of boats - including the J/80. Many of their products are strong, but more"me too" and leverage the brand following. As to the 70, it seems to be in the later category.....so I guess I am largely agreeing with your take on the boat....just can't take the J/80 without some defense..

 

 

HAHAHHAHAHA I dont usually reply that much but this just made me laugh and I have to call bullshit as I see it. I'll give you the j24 and j105, but I would hardly even remotely come close to calling jboats the "mac" of boat design and from everything that I have seen, I dont think they strive as a company to be the "apple" of boat design. Their interested in putting out a good quality boat, not nessarily the most innovative. If it happens, great, but I dont think this is their main foucs. And fact check - the j80 was introduced after the melges 24 and believe me there is not much innovative about it. I owned a j80 for a while. Great boat, loved sailing it, but it wasnt the "iphone" in no shape or form back then. Good post, made me laugh, but I think your a little sligtly off here!

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No flames here- Thanks for your perspective, Mr B30.

Can you comment on the rigging process? How long does it take, can you do things to expedite the process before showing up at the marina?

Did you get a sense of how heavy the mast is, can it be stepped by one person with a helper that merely inserts a pin for the forestay?

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....

I used to sail a J80 called Monster Lady #63 years ago. We had some successes and won some events so I feel I know the 80 as well as anyone. I can tell you the boats are similar in concept, but sail very differently. The 70 is much more fun to helm and will reward a good helmsman more than the 80.

... ...

 

Is there ANY boat that reward a crummy helmsman?

 

FB- Doug

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I've seen many referances to the J70 being a scaled down version of the J80. If one were to substitute J80 for J70 in the Clean review would it still be accurate?

I sailed the boat several times this past weekend in Charleston. I am not in the boating industry. I used to sail a J80 called Monster Lady #63 years ago. We had some successes and won some events so I feel I know the 80 as well as anyone. I can tell you the boats are similar in concept, but sail very differently. The 70 is much more fun to helm and will reward a good helmsman more than the 80. It accelerates and responds faster and gives better feedback. Although not a rocket it will get a full plane on a run in 11 or 12 knots. The 80 needs about 5 knots more to the same. My first sail was double handed. The boat was easily sailed by 2 up and down wind with the chute. 3 crew was comfortable. 4 would leave someone with absolutely nothing to do. I came off the boat each time with a smile on my face. It is a very comfortable boat to sail. None of the controls pull very hard, the seating both legs in and out are similar to the 80 which I mean to say is good. It is a boat that can be sailed to high level without a lot of muscle. I feel this is important as there are some great sailors who are not in the best shape due to age or just poor conditioning who would love the chance to compete in sporty boat. The 70 will give them a chance.

 

I rigged and launched the 70 and the difference between the two boats here is huge. No crane or gin pole needed. Ramp launchable (this is what we did) and no need for a large SUV. A midsized one will do just fine. The keel up and down using a battery powered hand drill worked great.

 

As for comparisons to the viper and vx (almost the same boat by my eye). It is similar but different. The biggest difference is muscle. Admit it or not, but to compete at the top of these classes you must be great shape. You must be able to hike hard, tack and jibe fast, squat or be on your knees while being nimble and the controls can really load up. This is great. I am glad there are boats that push the crews to limit and reward them for it. The 70 is for those that can't or don't want to work so hard and still be able to compete at the top of the class. The sad truth is to get this some performance must be sacrificed. I think the J70 handles this balancing act rather well. Another plus is that if you have girls on your crew, the small cabin will make a huge differeance. They won't have to dehydrate themselves because there is no place for "relief."

 

Flame away.

 

I think you got it just about right. Not sure about the planing in 11-12 knots on a run though, many reaching up a bit ;)

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Anyone know the target sail area (100%) for the boat? Would like to know the SA/D ratio.

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I've seen many referances to the J70 being a scaled down version of the J80. If one were to substitute J80 for J70 in the Clean review would it still be accurate?

I sailed the boat several times this past weekend in Charleston. I am not in the boating industry. I used to sail a J80 called Monster Lady #63 years ago. We had some successes and won some events so I feel I know the 80 as well as anyone. I can tell you the boats are similar in concept, but sail very differently. The 70 is much more fun to helm and will reward a good helmsman more than the 80. It accelerates and responds faster and gives better feedback. Although not a rocket it will get a full plane on a run in 11 or 12 knots. The 80 needs about 5 knots more to the same. My first sail was double handed. The boat was easily sailed by 2 up and down wind with the chute. 3 crew was comfortable. 4 would leave someone with absolutely nothing to do. I came off the boat each time with a smile on my face. It is a very comfortable boat to sail. None of the controls pull very hard, the seating both legs in and out are similar to the 80 which I mean to say is good. It is a boat that can be sailed to high level without a lot of muscle. I feel this is important as there are some great sailors who are not in the best shape due to age or just poor conditioning who would love the chance to compete in sporty boat. The 70 will give them a chance.

 

I rigged and launched the 70 and the difference between the two boats here is huge. No crane or gin pole needed. Ramp launchable (this is what we did) and no need for a large SUV. A midsized one will do just fine. The keel up and down using a battery powered hand drill worked great.

 

As for comparisons to the viper and vx (almost the same boat by my eye). It is similar but different. The biggest difference is muscle. Admit it or not, but to compete at the top of these classes you must be great shape. You must be able to hike hard, tack and jibe fast, squat or be on your knees while being nimble and the controls can really load up. This is great. I am glad there are boats that push the crews to limit and reward them for it. The 70 is for those that can't or don't want to work so hard and still be able to compete at the top of the class. The sad truth is to get this some performance must be sacrificed. I think the J70 handles this balancing act rather well. Another plus is that if you have girls on your crew, the small cabin will make a huge differeance. They won't have to dehydrate themselves because there is no place for "relief."

 

Flame away.

 

I think you got it just about right. Not sure about the planing in 11-12 knots on a run though, many reaching up a bit ;)

Youre part right. That is about the windspeed I thought reaching up to plane would be worth the trade off on a run leg. Time will tell.

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As for comparisons to the viper and vx (almost the same boat by my eye). It is similar but different. The biggest difference is muscle. Admit it or not, but to compete at the top of these classes you must be great shape. You must be able to hike hard, tack and jibe fast, squat or be on your knees while being nimble and the controls can really load up. This is great. I am glad there are boats that push the crews to limit and reward them for it. The 70 is for those that can't or don't want to work so hard and still be able to compete at the top of the class. The sad truth is to get this some performance must be sacrificed. I think the J70 handles this balancing act rather well. Another plus is that if you have girls on your crew, the small cabin will make a huge differeance. They won't have to dehydrate themselves because there is no place for "relief."

 

I haven't sailed a J/70 yet, just crawled around on the display boat in Charleston, and saw the demo boat sailing. I think J/Boats really hit the target for their market.

 

I'm guessing you may not have sailed a Viper, so I'd just like to politely disagree with one statement. The fact is, that not a lot of muscle is required. In fact, the lighter the boat, the lower the sheet loads are, as the boat simply accelerates, rather than loading up. It does reward hard hiking upwind, yes. Most performance boats do. I'm not sure how comfy the legs out hiking will be on the J/70 after sitting on the one on shore. I can foresee people adopting a near Melges 24 type max hike -we'll see. Tack and gybe quickly? Again, yes, most all boats want that. Squat or be on your knees? Not on a Viper.

 

Take a look at this Viper onboard video from CRW. There's a tack at 0:50, spin set at 1:20. This is in about 10-12 knots.

 

 

 

Again, like most boats, practiced technique trumps raw muscle. No one squatting or kneeling. 18 y.o. kid hoisting the kite (first time on a Viper). 47 y.o. geezer with the camera (me) trimming. We have kids from 8 to 70 racing Vipers. Loads are quite manageable. I'd invite you (or anyone) to come sailing with me and see for yourself.

 

The J/70 has a lot going for it, and is a very different boat from a Viper -cabin, legs out which some will prefer over hiking straps. It's going to help grow the sportboat segment, and it is more conservative. Your choice depends on what your preferences are.

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Youre part right. That is about the windspeed I thought reaching up to plane would be worth the trade off on a run leg. Time will tell.

 

You're still in soak mode in a Melges 24 in 12 knots of breeze downwind. I imagine the 70 is closer to 15. 80 is closer to 18, at least that's what I learned watching them in KW and Charleston a few dozen times.

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I'm trying to think of an instance where the J's have jammed their advertising into a viper / rondar thread.

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It would have gone about like Ford Taurus people pushing into a BMW M3 discussion.

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I'm trying to think of an instance where the J's have jammed their advertising into a viper / rondar thread.

 

Chill out, the guy brought up the comparison of a J70 to a Viper 640 / VX so worthy of a response. It's not like Rockhead said anything negative about that slow ass piece of water pushing J box trash :lol: . Just kidding its Friday smile!

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Got the sail area here:

http://www.sailmagazine.com/boat-reviews/j70

 

This works out to SA/D of 25, which is not much different than the J/22 or J/27 (both with SA/D=24) and less than the J/80 (SA/D=27). It is way different than the VX One (SA/D=39).

 

Not that anyone (except PHRF) believes that a single number completely describes a boat...

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I've seen many referances to the J70 being a scaled down version of the J80. If one were to substitute J80 for J70 in the Clean review would it still be accurate?

I sailed the boat several times this past weekend in Charleston. I am not in the boating industry. I used to sail a J80 called Monster Lady #63 years ago. We had some successes and won some events so I feel I know the 80 as well as anyone. I can tell you the boats are similar in concept, but sail very differently. The 70 is much more fun to helm and will reward a good helmsman more than the 80. It accelerates and responds faster and gives better feedback. Although not a rocket it will get a full plane on a run in 11 or 12 knots. The 80 needs about 5 knots more to the same. My first sail was double handed. The boat was easily sailed by 2 up and down wind with the chute. 3 crew was comfortable. 4 would leave someone with absolutely nothing to do. I came off the boat each time with a smile on my face. It is a very comfortable boat to sail. None of the controls pull very hard, the seating both legs in and out are similar to the 80 which I mean to say is good. It is a boat that can be sailed to high level without a lot of muscle. I feel this is important as there are some great sailors who are not in the best shape due to age or just poor conditioning who would love the chance to compete in sporty boat. The 70 will give them a chance.

 

I rigged and launched the 70 and the difference between the two boats here is huge. No crane or gin pole needed. Ramp launchable (this is what we did) and no need for a large SUV. A midsized one will do just fine. The keel up and down using a battery powered hand drill worked great.

 

As for comparisons to the viper and vx (almost the same boat by my eye). It is similar but different. The biggest difference is muscle. Admit it or not, but to compete at the top of these classes you must be great shape. You must be able to hike hard, tack and jibe fast, squat or be on your knees while being nimble and the controls can really load up. This is great. I am glad there are boats that push the crews to limit and reward them for it. The 70 is for those that can't or don't want to work so hard and still be able to compete at the top of the class. The sad truth is to get this some performance must be sacrificed. I think the J70 handles this balancing act rather well. Another plus is that if you have girls on your crew, the small cabin will make a huge differeance. They won't have to dehydrate themselves because there is no place for "relief."

 

Flame away.

 

 

I think it is absolutely right to use SA to compare different boats, even if they are very different.

 

My background is that I have owned and raced J22s and a J24. There is a good chance that a friend will be getting a J70 and I sure am looking forward to racing on that boat. Bob Johnstone has asked me personally to come sail the J70 and I look forward to it greatly.

 

For the last few years I have been having an incredibly great time racing the Viper. I love the class, the boat and the people and everyone knows that.

 

I am 54 years old. I am not in great shape and I work long hours so, sadly, I dont get to the gym. But I was able to come 5th at CRW against some good competition and 3rd in the NAs. The boat is incredibly comfortable to hike on. The huge 32inch curved tanks mean that with legs in the straps it has the most comfortable hiking position in the category. It is probably the thing I like most about the boat. If I had to distinguish between the Viper and the K6 and VX, for me, the Viper is noticeable less athletic for the skipper.

 

When asked, I describe the Viper as "comfortably athletic". I come back from a day of racing feeling like I have had some good exercise and , yes, I like that feeling. Lets be truthful...I think the J70 will be less athletic hiking than the Viper (and considerbly less athletic than K6 or VX ). The J70 has been well designed to be that way and I suspect they have done a good job.

 

(As an aside, the "loads" on the lighter Viper will be much less than the J70. The controls dont load up at all. Sheets, halyards etc require less arm muscle on a Viper than M20 or SB3, hence large numbers of women crews, drivers and even a woman class prez)

 

In short, the Viper does NOT require "muscles" to win, but it is exercise. I enjoy coming home tired after a good days racing. I suspect I will also enjoy a good day on the J70.

 

I think I will like the J70 but continue to love the Viper. I know there will be people who will love the J70 and like the Viper. As long as we see you all out on the race course, its all good!

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