• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Sign in to follow this  
Mariner

News from SF Embarcadero...

Recommended Posts

Maybe the list of AC personalities and YCs is a list of those who are or have been interested in AC34?

Maybe they think these folks may provide insight into organization of AC34?

As for the mystery Does?

Maybe they expect to find some skeletons to revive?

And that would be the most interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For someone who has a couple of hours to kill, it would be an interesting exercise to go through the list of suits that are a matter of public record for the plaintiff firm, and cross reference those clients of the plaintiff firm to see if there is someone with an obvious ax to grind against Larry.

Not necessary. You know why the mafia does not sign its crimes ? because their targets know who is behind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dogwatch asks me, "(D)o you have any observations about the long list of supposedly interested parties, many of whom are clearly nothing of the kind. What purpose may that serve?"

 

I don't get it, either.

 

OK, thanks. Very strange indeed that the Royal Thames Yacht Club (among a cast of thousands) finds itself cited as a party in a dispute about rebuilding piers in a city to which it has no connection, that is circuitously linked to a regatta in which it plays no part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still contend that our native american friend is lurking in the background on this one.

 

Doubtless you've seen this http://www.bymnews.com/americas-cup-33/indian.php . I don't mention this to ask you to explain or justify the connection you had with Rosas at that time because that is water under the bridge. What does interest me is: do you agree that what Marian found was accurate? And if it was, are you really saying that a well-known politician and the Sierra Club have joined up with this guy? I mean, whether you agree with either of those parties I'd expect them both to have some degree of street-sense and operate some kind of diligence in choosing allies?

 

I'm not saying you are wrong either. Just - something doesn't add up here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dogwatch asks me, "(D)o you have any observations about the long list of supposedly interested parties, many of whom are clearly nothing of the kind. What purpose may that serve?"

 

I don't get it, either.

 

OK, thanks. Very strange indeed that the Royal Thames Yacht Club (among a cast of thousands) finds itself cited as a party in a dispute about rebuilding piers in a city to which it has no connection, that is circuitously linked to a regatta in which it plays no part.

 

dog watch --you should watch/read the d o g by gls -

 

 

and you should read the pet -again or try and understand what was stated on the reason and requirements to name those REAL PARTY IN INTERESTS

 

they all have one thing in common -which has been missed by you and others --

 

they are all BENEFICIARIES to the charitable trust called THE AMERICA'S CUP TRUST as established by GLS and ny and us of a -dept of treasury

 

read the jpg and explain it should be clear why they had to name and SERVE those real parties in interest

 

post-34407-091555800 1330278106_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they are all BENEFICIARIES to the charitable trust

They are beneficiaries only when they take the opportunity to challenge.

 

The list is ridiculous.

 

if you think your right then your dumbass should call the lawfirm

 

who composed the pet and those real party in interest and filed that litigation and tell them laugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dogwatch asks me, "(D)o you have any observations about the long list of supposedly interested parties, many of whom are clearly nothing of the kind. What purpose may that serve?"

 

I don't get it, either.

 

OK, thanks. Very strange indeed that the Royal Thames Yacht Club (among a cast of thousands) finds itself cited as a party in a dispute about rebuilding piers in a city to which it has no connection, that is circuitously linked to a regatta in which it plays no part.

 

dog watch --you should watch/read the d o g by gls -

 

 

and you should read the pet -again or try and understand what was stated on the reason and requirements to name those REAL PARTY IN INTERESTS

 

they all have one thing in common -which has been missed by you and others --

 

they are all BENEFICIARIES to the charitable trust called THE AMERICA'S CUP TRUST as established by GLS and ny and us of a -dept of treasury

 

read the jpg and explain it should be clear why they had to name and SERVE those real parties in interest

 

post-34407-091555800 1330278106_thumb.jpg

 

You should try to understand what you have repeatedly been told - the only beneficiaries of the DOG are 'All the Yacht Clubs of the World' *

 

 

So guess again Councillor

 

 

* (properly constituted)

(minus those from country of the Yacht Club presently holding the Cup)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dogwatch asks me, "(D)o you have any observations about the long list of supposedly interested parties, many of whom are clearly nothing of the kind. What purpose may that serve?"

 

I don't get it, either.

 

OK, thanks. Very strange indeed that the Royal Thames Yacht Club (among a cast of thousands) finds itself cited as a party in a dispute about rebuilding piers in a city to which it has no connection, that is circuitously linked to a regatta in which it plays no part.

 

dog watch --you should watch/read the d o g by gls -

 

 

and you should read the pet -again or try and understand what was stated on the reason and requirements to name those REAL PARTY IN INTERESTS

 

they all have one thing in common -which has been missed by you and others --

 

they are all BENEFICIARIES to the charitable trust called THE AMERICA'S CUP TRUST as established by GLS and ny and us of a -dept of treasury

 

read the jpg and explain it should be clear why they had to name and SERVE those real parties in interest

 

post-34407-091555800 1330278106_thumb.jpg

 

You should try to understand what you have repeatedly been told - the only beneficiaries of the DOG are 'All the Yacht Clubs of the World' *

 

 

So guess again Councillor

 

 

* (properly constituted)

(minus those from country of the Yacht Club presently holding the Cup)

 

 

if you think your right then your dumbass should call the lawfirm

who composed the pet and those real party in interest and filed that litigation and tell them laugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still contend that our native american friend is lurking in the background on this one.

 

Doubtless you've seen this http://www.bymnews.c...p-33/indian.php . I don't mention this to ask you to explain or justify the connection you had with Rosas at that time because that is water under the bridge. What does interest me is: do you agree that what Marian found was accurate? And if it was, are you really saying that a well-known politician and the Sierra Club have joined up with this guy? I mean, whether you agree with either of those parties I'd expect them both to have some degree of street-sense and operate some kind of diligence in choosing allies?

 

I'm not saying you are wrong either. Just - something doesn't add up here.

 

I've no problem explaining my connection to JohnTommy. Said it before, but short version here - when he first appeared on the SA scene as MSP, that was at the time when Ernesto was both messing with the way the RRS would be applied to the AC - meaning he was going to be both judge and jury, and the way he was screwing around with money. My interest was in the administration of the rules for fair play, and it just seemed way wrong that Ernesto was going to control the Cup for a profit while at the same time turning the racing into a phreak show by the he was going to control the racing rules. So little by little I started talking to JohnTommy via SA PM, then by email, then finally got him to tell me who he was, convinced him the only way he might help was to come out in the open AND start posting under his real name and STOP with the nonsense gibberish, if he wanted to be taken seriously. For a while he did that.

 

As for your question - was Marian wrong about what she found and posted. No. But she didn't get it all. As for his claims about breaking billion dollar companies....well, that isn't exactly true. I did see evidence of some success he has had in terms of being a PITA against one very large company that was doing a big land development deal in Marina del Rey, but he certainly did not do that all on his own. I saw evidence of other successes he had, in other areas too. I saw the way he worked, specifically in Newport Beach where I know more than a few people, having lived there for 15 years, but in that instance, his claims amounted to nothing. What he tried to stop was under full construction when I was there a few months ago.

 

Would a well known politician join forces with JohnTommy. Well, not exactly. But if JohnTommy called Peskin and said "hey, here's what I've been working on and here's what I think you ought to do and why, and here's reams and reams of documents I've pulled off the internet that will help you paper your file, and I'll just give it all to you, in the USA, in the State of California, of course an experienced politician is likely to use that free research, just because it will help advance his efforts where he has no experience. Doesn't mean Peskin gives a rats ass about JohnTommy, a guy like Peskin is just a political opportunist. He'll use whatever he can to further his objective, whether the guy that brings the info to him is a Stanford grad, or a guy who posts crazytime stuff on Sailing Anarchy. Peskin probably doesn't even know SA exists, and doesn't care about JohnTommy's credentials, real or imagined. He just cares that he's got another guy who will help him - in San Fran and California, crazy is usually a good way to get heard.

 

The funny part is that people are saying that this suit will stop the Cup. I don't see that happening. It might stop some redevelopment of some old piers, and maybe that is a very good thing for Larry at this point. Who really cares if there is an AC village? Sure it be amusing and all, but at the end of the day, it is the racing that matters. It is the global TV show that is really the focus. Redevelopment of some piers so casual fans can walk by and go oh and ah, that doesn't really matter in the scheme of things. It would be best if there was an AC Village, but it's hardly the end of the world if there isn't one.

 

Maybe ACEA would be wise to just rent a big hotel ballroom and turn that into AC central for the duration of the LVC and AC.

 

But bottom line, would a guy like Peskin use a guy like JohnTommy Rosas? Hell yes, Peskin is a politician. He'll use whatever he can to try and advance his own cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^

 

I guess MSP's posts of the last couple of hours indicate you are probably correct that he's been involved.

 

As for whether piers get developed or not - I think you are right - it makes little difference to the AC and none at all to me. I'll be watching over the www which - as I found out at Plymouth - is the best way to view this racing anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dogwatch asks me, "(D)o you have any observations about the long list of supposedly interested parties, many of whom are clearly nothing of the kind. What purpose may that serve?"

 

I don't get it, either.

 

OK, thanks. Very strange indeed that the Royal Thames Yacht Club (among a cast of thousands) finds itself cited as a party in a dispute about rebuilding piers in a city to which it has no connection, that is circuitously linked to a regatta in which it plays no part.

 

dog watch --you should watch/read the d o g by gls -

 

 

and you should read the pet -again or try and understand what was stated on the reason and requirements to name those REAL PARTY IN INTERESTS

 

they all have one thing in common -which has been missed by you and others --

 

they are all BENEFICIARIES to the charitable trust called THE AMERICA'S CUP TRUST as established by GLS and ny and us of a -dept of treasury

 

read the jpg and explain it should be clear why they had to name and SERVE those real parties in interest

 

post-34407-091555800 1330278106_thumb.jpg

 

You should try to understand what you have repeatedly been told - the only beneficiaries of the DOG are 'All the Yacht Clubs of the World' *

 

 

So guess again Councillor

 

 

* (properly constituted)

(minus those from country of the Yacht Club presently holding the Cup)

 

 

if you think your right then your dumbass should call the lawfirm

who composed the pet and those real party in interest and filed that litigation and tell them laugh.gif

 

This seems to be your answer to everything legal - 'Read what the law firm/lawyer claims'. Duh!

 

Glad to say it doesn't work that way - try reading what the court has stated instead, there's less of it and what there is is to the point and written by judges, not the 'paid by the page' money grubbers that you seem to love quoting.

 

For someone who apparently hates all things AC, you sure seem spend an inordinate amount of time fussing with it. Everything except the boats crews and sailing that isbiggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the environmentalism activist (terrorist) have been on a roll for far too long

 

taking the peoples desire to protect nature as an extremist tool just like those using muslim as an extremist tool

 

time will come when some group shall start to do something like fuck-up some pristine location, document it and present it to the world

 

each time the courts allow something as ridiculous like this to go forward

 

that might be the only way this stupid crap will end - when people finally tie the enviro-extremist action to the negative impact that shall cause

 

people can't be allowed to sue places they haven't visited for not meeting there needs and killing the place just for the fun and profit of it "With the courts blessings"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, thanks. Very strange indeed that the Royal Thames Yacht Club (among a cast of thousands) finds itself cited as a party in a dispute about rebuilding piers in a city to which it has no connection, that is circuitously linked to a regatta in which it plays no part.

 

dog watch --you should watch/read the d o g by gls -

 

 

and you should read the pet -again or try and understand what was stated on the reason and requirements to name those REAL PARTY IN INTERESTS

 

they all have one thing in common -which has been missed by you and others --

 

they are all BENEFICIARIES to the charitable trust called THE AMERICA'S CUP TRUST as established by GLS and ny and us of a -dept of treasury

 

read the jpg and explain it should be clear why they had to name and SERVE those real parties in interest

 

post-34407-091555800 1330278106_thumb.jpg

 

You should try to understand what you have repeatedly been told - the only beneficiaries of the DOG are 'All the Yacht Clubs of the World' *

 

 

So guess again Councillor

 

 

* (properly constituted)

(minus those from country of the Yacht Club presently holding the Cup)

 

 

if you think your right then your dumbass should call the lawfirm

who composed the pet and those real party in interest and filed that litigation and tell them laugh.gif

 

This seems to be your answer to everything legal - 'Read what the law firm/lawyer claims'. Duh!

 

Glad to say it doesn't work that way - try reading what the court has stated instead, there's less of it and what there is is to the point and written by judges, not the 'paid by the page' money grubbers that you seem to love quoting.

 

For someone who apparently hates all things AC, you sure seem spend an inordinate amount of time fussing with it. Everything except the boats crews and sailing that isbiggrin.gif

 

Keep in mind this comes from a nut job that plays dumb and calls out countries, and whose english has suddenly improved. Here a good example;

 

"THIS IS FIRST WARNING TO ALINGHI/UBS AND SPAIN--- SURRENDER THE AMERICA'S CUP NOW-- NO SURRENDER THEN MAHGUAH SHOW NO MERCY-- MAHGUAH SAY THIS FIRST-- LAST-- ONLY WARNING-- SURRENDER AMERICA'S CUP--MAHGUAH GIVE YOU ONLY 24 HOURS TO COMPLY."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's important that we have a good adjudication system, and elected officials to create the law that gets ruled by, including environmental protection laws.

 

But this Watch suit is apparently trying to use the CEQA process as the means to achieve some other agenda; or Peskin would not have so crassly admitted as much to the SF Weekly reporter.

 

As for MSP's 'help' well they completely wasted their money if they paid him anything; and clearly their agendas have f-all to do with trying to remove the Cup to the Mahguah Cup whatever-thing anyway, by redefining who 'ultimate bennies' are, or by trying to drag Federal taxes into it, Hague Convention treatises, Indian rights, monohull boats, illegal everything else's, etc ad infinitum.

 

Peskin and probably Avalos are being used, by who knows who, for some completely different agenda, that is likely forgotten old news left in the wake by this time next month anyway. Everyone will probably have moved on except for our feathers-still-ruffled one, who will then try out yet another truly bizarre argument to his own end; on a forum, the only forum he can get whatever legal attention he does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"THIS IS FIRST WARNING TO ALINGHI/UBS AND SPAIN--- SURRENDER THE AMERICA'S CUP NOW-- NO SURRENDER THEN MAHGUAH SHOW NO MERCY-- MAHGUAH SAY THIS FIRST-- LAST-- ONLY WARNING-- SURRENDER AMERICA'S CUP--MAHGUAH GIVE YOU ONLY 24 HOURS TO COMPLY."

 

Yep, that is when MSP was a hero for you. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IT's doubtful they paid him anything, and in reviewing Peskins history it seems like these two are both loose cannons.

 

It seems like the agenda is to threaten to delay as much as possible to force tougher negotiations, which carries additional risks for the taxpayers who don't seem to care about the piers.

 

I'd think Alameda would move mountains to get the team bases, instead of creating them like SF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But this Watch suit is apparently trying to use the CEQA process as the means to achieve some other agenda; or Peskin would not have so crassly admitted as much to the SF Weekly reporter.

Of course. The agenda is to delay construction past the drop-dead date for completion in time for the LVC.

 

The merits of the case are irrelevant. Peskin et al are exploiting the court and regulatory systems.

 

When this suit is dismissed, someone else will step forward with another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When this suit is dismissed, someone else will step forward with another.

Yep - that seems possible. At some point, soon, ACEA will need to decide whether to start construction on P30. The Cruise terminal project? I guess SF could forgo all that too.

 

--

 

Fresh by KL

 

 

Peskin Point

Published: February 26, 2012

"If" lead negotiator Stephen Barclay and his America's Cup cohorts were a trifle naïve regarding San Francisco politics when they first blew into town, trumpeting the splendors to come, an 11th hour lawsuit filed last week by former President of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors and still-local chairman of the Democratic Party Aaron Peskin should complete their education. This is a blood sport, and you don't have to be certifiably sane to play.

 

contd..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a San Francisco taxpayer, I don’t want the city to give away the store. Thank you to those who are looking out for my interests—including striking a deal. Here we have a well-capitalized partner eager to invest according to the lend-lease model that succeeded in restoring the Ferry Building and creating the no-longer-controversial (!) ballpark.

 

I suggest you ring +1 510 747-4701 and ask for Marie Gilmore, Mayor of Alameda. Ask if the city of Alameda might be willing to host a few America’s Cup boats. Or ring +1 510 412-2070 and ask for Gayle McLaughlin, Mayor of Richmond. Ask her if Kersey’s 2010 renderings of a Cup Village on the Richmond waterfront are still good to go.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

--

 

Fresh by KL

 

 

Peskin Point

 

The 'if' that I've been posting too, for months:

 

--

If the deal fails, then, most likely, the Cup does not go to Richmond, does not go to Alameda, and does not leave San Francisco. There is ample space at Pier 80, foot of Cezar Chavez Street, to host the teams for America's Cup 34. The Oracle Racing base is already in full gear at Pier 80, and that will be the base site for America's Cup World Series racing coming to the Bay in either August or September.

--

 

I just expected LE to make the P80 decision even without the impetus from the Peskins of the world, since LE doesn't want that badly, and certainly does not need, a piers arrangement with that much uncertainty associated. The 'bad faith' only adds weight to what should already have been an easy call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

--

 

Fresh by KL

Peskin Point

 

The 'if' that I've been posting too, for months:

 

--

If the deal fails, then, most likely, the Cup does not go to Richmond, does not go to Alameda, and does not leave San Francisco. There is ample space at Pier 80, foot of Cezar Chavez Street, to host the teams for America's Cup 34. The Oracle Racing base is already in full gear at Pier 80, and that will be the base site for America's Cup World Series racing coming to the Bay in either August or September.

--

 

I just expected LE to make the P80 decision even without the impetus from the Peskins of the world, since LE doesn't want that badly, and certainly does not need, a piers arrangement with that much uncertainty associated. The 'bad faith' only adds weight to what should already have been an easy call.

It would be interesting to see the fallout if LE just stepped back and said, ok, no piers will be rebuilt. Thanks for your consideration and have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

--

 

Fresh by KL

Peskin Point

 

The 'if' that I've been posting too, for months:

 

--

If the deal fails, then, most likely, the Cup does not go to Richmond, does not go to Alameda, and does not leave San Francisco. There is ample space at Pier 80, foot of Cezar Chavez Street, to host the teams for America's Cup 34. The Oracle Racing base is already in full gear at Pier 80, and that will be the base site for America's Cup World Series racing coming to the Bay in either August or September.

--

 

I just expected LE to make the P80 decision even without the impetus from the Peskins of the world, since LE doesn't want that badly, and certainly does not need, a piers arrangement with that much uncertainty associated. The 'bad faith' only adds weight to what should already have been an easy call.

It would be interesting to see the fallout if LE just stepped back and said, ok, no piers will be rebuilt. Thanks for your consideration and have a nice day.

I don't suppose anyone would care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to see the fallout if LE just stepped back and said, ok, no piers will be rebuilt. Thanks for your consideration and have a nice day.

I don't suppose anyone would care.

I'm sure you're right wink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to see the fallout if LE just stepped back and said, ok, no piers will be rebuilt. Thanks for your consideration and have a nice day.

He does have that option, and I still maintain there's a good chance he'll do exactly that. Even were Peskin to drop the suit tonight.

 

The piers problem will just stay as-is and continue to deteriorate; left to someone (taxpayers, mostly) a few years down the road to try deal with. That is not LE's concern, why should it be?

 

The larger impact might be to the CST project plans; the city and Port were using AC34 as impetus to get all that off the ground and moving along. Could be more immediate repercussions there, I suppose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to see the fallout if LE just stepped back and said, ok, no piers will be rebuilt. Thanks for your consideration and have a nice day.

He does have that option, and I still maintain there's a good chance he'll do exactly that. Even were Peskin to drop the suit tonight.

 

The piers problem will just stay as-is and continue to deteriorate; left to someone (taxpayers, mostly) a few years down the road to try deal with. That is not LE's concern, why should it be?

 

The larger impact might be to the CST project plans; the city and Port were using AC34 as impetus to get all that off the ground and moving along. Could be more immediate repercussions there, I suppose.

 

I still don't get why there has to be any real estate deal at all. Can you explain why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to see the fallout if LE just stepped back and said, ok, no piers will be rebuilt. Thanks for your consideration and have a nice day.

He does have that option, and I still maintain there's a good chance he'll do exactly that. Even were Peskin to drop the suit tonight.

 

The piers problem will just stay as-is and continue to deteriorate; left to someone (taxpayers, mostly) a few years down the road to try deal with. That is not LE's concern, why should it be?

 

The larger impact might be to the CST project plans; the city and Port were using AC34 as impetus to get all that off the ground and moving along. Could be more immediate repercussions there, I suppose.

 

I still don't get why there has to be any real estate deal at all. Can you explain why?

Their doesn't. The city, the Port, the fans, and the taxpayers will lose out though.

 

I actually hope their isn't at this point - let the sups and politicians who object or don't vote for it explain where they're going to get the money to tear the piers down because they don't have the money to fix them nor another developer waiting in line, aside from the Peskin Pier development effort laugh.gif.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still don't get why there has to be any real estate deal at all. Can you explain why?

Larry said up front that what he wanted was some SF waterfront to use, as place to put event facilities. He was not looking to buy anything, invest in anything, go through year-long CEQA processes, yadda yadda yadda. SF had nothing to offer so he's trying to make that happen by rebuilding some dilapidated piers. But he (quite reasonably imo) wants it to be as close to a zero-sum game as he can get. Rent-free credits to help pay for it, exactly as is the normal process for the Port.

 

Some people think LE is in this to make money; whereas it strikes me as quite the opposite. It's a very, very, very expensive proposition - with an enormous amount of risk evident even in trying to get just a substructure rebuild approved for the immediate/short-term.

 

Two more things (aside from money, uncertainty, more potential lawsuits, an unfriendly and borderline combative SFBOS) factors that favor P80? 1: They can easily just rent that facility and put relatively little extra into it to host the bases, and 2: With 6 or fewer AC72 teams likely, even if there are several 2-boat teams they might still be able to squeeze the necessary facilities into it. For the ACWS/AC45 part of Summer 2013 on the Bay? That's where an Alameda or even Richmond might help.

 

LE needs this about as much as he needs a hole in his head. SF apparently just is too difficult a place to get stuff like this done, it's been the concern here all along. Fine, so long as they can still hold the races!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

LE needs this about as much as he needs a hole in his head. SF apparently just is too difficult a place to get stuff like this done, it's been the concern here all along. Fine, so long as they can still hold the races!

 

Are there any rare species of fish, etc. that no one has ever heard of that the boats sailing through the water will harm?

 

If not I would not be surprised that one is found that eliminates all sailboat activity in the bay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better yet what would be very cool to find is a species of land sharks that feed on out of work politicians and raving lunatic native americans. Can't anyone find me some sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads? Or even ill-temptered sea bass?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LE needs this about as much as he needs a hole in his head. SF apparently just is too difficult a place to get stuff like this done, it's been the concern here all along. Fine, so long as they can still hold the races!

Good, let him organize a boat race at GGYC or else, and let the piers to a developper willing to have a win win situation with the city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there any rare species of fish, etc. that no one has ever heard of that the boats sailing through the water will harm?

Apparently AC crowds would interfere with the seals' mating habits, while ordinary crowds do not. . . :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good, let him organize a boat race at GGYC or else, and let the piers to a developper willing to have a win win situation with the city.

The City has been looking for such a developer for 20 years. LE is the first to come along who can back up his bullshit with real $.

 

edit:

I used to work for developers. They do everything with other peoples' money and structure their deals so their principals can avoid all liability. They are not the sort of people a municipality wants to have a long term relationship with. It will be a long time before SF finds anyone as substantial as LE to deal with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there any rare species of fish, etc. that no one has ever heard of that the boats sailing through the water will harm?

Apparently AC crowds would interfere with the seals' mating habits, while ordinary crowds do not. . . :unsure:

 

Not to mention the fact that AC crowds are notorious for interrupting the migratory habits of several species of birds only found in SF, and their are also sacred burial grounds scattered throughout the AC course area too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Better yet what would be very cool to find is a species of land sharks that feed on out of work politicians and raving lunatic native americans. Can't anyone find me some sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads? Or even ill-temptered sea bass?

That species went on the endangered species list about 25 years ago in SF, and is believed to be extinct as of about 15 years ago, poisoned by the food it preyed on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my favorite lawyer jokes

--

 

        Two alligators are sitting on the edge of a swamp. The small one turns to the big one and says, "I don't understand how you can be so much bigger than I am. We're the same age, we were the same size as kids... I just don't get it."

        "Well," says the big alligator, "what have you been eating?"

        "Lawyers, same as you," replies the small alligator.

        "Hmm. Well, where do you catch 'em?"

        "Down at that law firm on the edge of the swamp."

        "Same here. Hmm. How do you catch 'em?"

        "Well, I crawl under a BMW and wait for someone to unlock the door. Then I jump out, bite 'em, shake the crap out of 'em, and eat 'em!"

        "Ah!" says the big alligator, "I think I see your problem. See, by the time you get done shakin' the crap out of a lawyer, there's nothing left but lips and a briefcase."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sure hope the port of San Diego is part of the conversations in deciding the Best was to go from here out

 

How about an AC Village with High-Tec "You Are There" displays and up close & personal access to people and related equipment

 

as well as "A Grand Location to Attend the racing action over Jumbo Screens"

 

that's what people would wind up in the best case if they went to SF and were able to find as good a place to watch the ACtion

 

DAGO can and would be an Excellent plACe to hold (like when the Superbowl was here) a Super AC Experience Event to Showcase the AC while the AC was taking place

 

Give us the traffic and the crowds (run AC-45 events on Non-Race days)

 

hold the AC in SF and run it all on minimally adequate industrial grade piers not safe for the public (no public access whatsoever) Fix or Build Nothing

 

leave nothing but memories (NO IMPROVEMENTS)

 

and hold the AC-Carnival down here in DAGO WIN - WIN !

 

Build a SUPER AC Theater Experience in DAGO

 

only impact SF with those who must work or race on the boats

 

if you can run an AirForce of Drones from another country you can sure as hell run an AC Party on a different part of the Kalifornia Coast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good, let him organize a boat race at GGYC or else, and let the piers to a developper willing to have a win win situation with the city.

The City has been looking for such a developer for 20 years. LE is the first to come along who can back up his bullshit with real $.

 

edit:

I used to work for developers. They do everything with other peoples' money and structure their deals so their principals can avoid all liability. They are not the sort of people a municipality wants to have a long term relationship with. It will be a long time before SF finds anyone as substantial as LE to deal with.

I agree with you, the AC is an excellent opprtunity to repair the piers but Larry's conditions look unacceptable.

It is not only about the 66 years lease but:

- the refusal to put a cap above the $ 55 M knowing that the city would have to pay the difference (through tax reimboursements)

- the $ 12 M for an non identified pier which is probably the pier 80 that was refused by the city but that could be accepted later other supervisors

- mainly the refusal to sign a waiver saying he will not file a suit against the city after the deal is signed. Whe we know Larry's history, with Google, SAP etc. we know what it means.

 

Their business seems simple: they know in how many years they will reimbourse the $ 55 M and the extra cost will being reimboursed with tax exemptions will make the profit at SF taxpayers expenses.

 

Whatever it may be, I think OR problems now are just the result of a policy of all or nothing. which makes a lot of people mad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Barclay's side of the story in a interview with Craig Lewick . Part two on tuesday in Sbutt.

 

http://www.sailingsc...m/news/12/0226/

 

thanks MM good one -

 

barclay is scrambling -- he will be fired soon -- his spin attempt below

 

// I should add though, that the story about the property and environmental side of things has taken over for what I believe to be the bigger story, which is how the America's Cup was awarded to San Francisco, and what a great event it will be on the Bay with hundreds of thousands of people being able to watch the races. And part of that is the way in which the event authority will be reimbursed has a property component.

This has been portrayed as a property development project, which clearly it is not. //

barclay trying to distort the deal that isnt done

laugh.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my favorite lawyer jokes

--

 

Two alligators are sitting on the edge of a swamp. The small one turns to the big one and says, "I don't understand how you can be so much bigger than I am. We're the same age, we were the same size as kids... I just don't get it."

"Well," says the big alligator, "what have you been eating?"

"Lawyers, same as you," replies the small alligator.

"Hmm. Well, where do you catch 'em?"

"Down at that law firm on the edge of the swamp."

"Same here. Hmm. How do you catch 'em?"

"Well, I crawl under a BMW and wait for someone to unlock the door. Then I jump out, bite 'em, shake the crap out of 'em, and eat 'em!"

"Ah!" says the big alligator, "I think I see your problem. See, by the time you get done shakin' the crap out of a lawyer, there's nothing left but lips and a briefcase."

 

Theres a dead lawyer and a dead snake in the road.... whats the difference??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Skid marks in front of the snake....

 

 

(told to me by an attorney in the family...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Waterfront Watch should sue Pesky for using its name.

 

From here.

 

 

Confusion regarding America's Cup

 

— by Jeffrey Wisniewski — 25 February 2012 — 5 comments below »

Editor's note. This blog — and the activism this blog promotes (principally New Urbanist development in Hercules, Calif.) — has absolutely nothing to do with a group purportedly of the same name that has filed legal challenges against the planned 2013 America's Cup in San Francisco. (Google has failed you.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From our very own front page, WTF ?

 

I am currently in San Francisco working about three weeks per month. So you can imagine how excited I was to learn that Oracle Racing's two week practice session coincided with my visit. Moreover, my son Gavin, an Opti sailor, was going to be in town on the weekend that the two catamarans would be ripping across the bay in 20 knots of breeze. I was sure that, in the face of disappointing spectator interest and almost no outside sponsorship , Oracle Racing would be pulling out the stops with a major PR campaign. Even though it was only a practice session, of course there would be official spectator boats, tons of local exposure, an experiential village for the public, rides on the catamarans for VIPs, insane social media execution, and an all-out effort to build community around the event.

 

Boy was I wrong. Neither the Oracle Racing website nor a Google search could produce any information at all about the practice session. Not one mention! I only discovered the whereabouts of the Oracle Racing compound because I happened to meet a couple of the crew on the train to work. Otherwise the boats are completely hidden from public view in a nondescript location well South of the City. There is absolutely zero buzz or excitement in San Francisco (as far as I can tell) about the America's Cup. While my son and I did happen to see the boats sail by near St Francis Yacht Club one afternoon, we got no information at all from Oracle Racing or the local press. You get the feeling that the whole event will pass by San Francisco without anyone noticing.

 

I'm just a sports marketing guy and sailing fan. When I first heard about Larry Ellison bringing the America's Cup to San Francisco, I naively believed the event had the potential to bring the sport to hundreds of thousands of new fans. I now see that the America's Cup in 2013 will go down as a huge missed opportunity. Our sport will continue to speak to a small and insular group of people, and we'll just write off any hope of building a larger fan base with our marquee event. - Anarchist Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the article on the FP, but all homie had to do was look here, the training dates were posted weeks ago. The next session will be March 12-23, excluding weekends.

A sad commentary on ACEA's abilities

 

'If you can't find AC info on our official site, check with a third party that really cares'. . . :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the article on the FP, but all homie had to do was look here, the training dates were posted weeks ago. The next session will be March 12-23, excluding weekends.

 

 

I think his point is that if someone like himself or his son who are interested sailors and well aware of the AC can't readily find the info then how can the ACEA possibly expect to recruit new interest from those that are presently not aware at all ? Here is a guy with a real interest , feet on the ground in the heart of the goings on and can't even find out the most basic of facts . With sports marketing apparently being his profession someone should take heed. Kudos to SA for posting his letter , perhaps someone of authority will finally get a clue .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was trying to be facetious, but it came off wrong. I agree, it's pretty strange that one can glean more information from an online forum where it's customary to tell each other to F-off and to SYGFTs, than the official web site.

 

Maybe they keep it on the downlow in an effort to stop a bunch of gawkers from getting in the way. I would.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was trying to be facetious, but it came off wrong. I agree, it's pretty strange that one can glean more information from an online forum where it's customary to tell each other to F-off and to SYGFTs, than the official web site.

 

Maybe they keep it on the downlow in an effort to stop a bunch of gawkers from getting in the way. I would.

 

I did miss your true meaning. The guy did have a point . I would think that they would be doing everything they could to get the word out especially with the vote on Tuesday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but this is just stupid.

Did this guy "Peter" (PH?) make ANY effort to find out if a training seasion was going on?

A few short FB messages could have given him all the info he needed.

I feel sorry for his kid though, lets hope he doesnt get dads genes...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is beyond me why anybody should expect Oracle to pubicise these sessions. They are not "practice sessions" but they are serious 2 boat trialing of design concepts for the AC72. If these were indeed AC45 training sessions, then I am sure that Oracle would have publisised them but they weren't and I bet that Oracle would rather they could do these sessions away from all prying eyes. The general public has as much right to seeing these trials as they do to freely wander around the Oracle boatbuilding facility. Maybe somebody will start complaining that they tried to get in there and weren't allowed access :blink:

 

And Oracle has done some promo work during these sessions. I have seen the photos of the party they threw which I believe was open to all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^

 

Really?

 

ORACLE Racing returns to San Francisco Bay for training session

 

Posted on 15 February 2012

 

ORACLE Racing, Team USA for the 34th America’s Cup in 2013, returned to San Francisco Bay today, commencing the first of two training sessions.

 

The team took its two AC45 wingsail catamarans out for practice with full crews. The wind strength built into the high teens in the afternoon and the session was welcomed by the sailors.

 

...

 

http://www.americascup.com/en/Teams/ORACLE-Racing/Latest/News/2012/02-Feb/ORACLE-Racing-returns-to-San-Francisco-Bay-for-training-session/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry but this is just stupid.

Did this guy "Peter" (PH?) make ANY effort to find out if a training seasion was going on?

A few short FB messages could have given him all the info he needed.

I feel sorry for his kid though, lets hope he doesnt get dads genes...

 

Can assure you Tony the guy who wrote that article was not me. I'd have used my full name, I'm not really in the sportsmarketing biz any more (just get pulled into it from time to time) and I hope that my kids never set foot in an Opti. They are 9 and 7, already sailing, and enjoying, Lightning's (particularly when my 7 yo daughter caught the biggest large mouth bass I have ever seen in my life when we did the sailing/fishing thing) and the occasional ride on a big boat.

 

And yes, they will get out on some sort of a cat as soon as they have a bit more experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously?

 

There was someone on SAAC a while ago complaining at length that he couldn't find merchandise at ACWS. Takes all sorts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the article on the FP, but all homie had to do was look here, the training dates were posted weeks ago. The next session will be March 12-23, excluding weekends.

 

 

I think his point is that if someone like himself or his son who are interested sailors and well aware of the AC can't readily find the info then how can the ACEA possibly expect to recruit new interest from those that are presently not aware at all ? Here is a guy with a real interest , feet on the ground in the heart of the goings on and can't even find out the most basic of facts . With sports marketing apparently being his profession someone should take heed. Kudos to SA for posting his letter , perhaps someone of authority will finally get a clue .

 

I was in the City over the past two weekends, and I can add a few things: at the intersection of market and powell there are some nice AC banners flying there, but that seems to be the only flag flying in the city that I came across. Presumably once the refurbishment of the piers begins in earnest for the hosting, big posters will be put up to start to familiarize the local citizens with the event.. it may be just that the full-on promotion hasn't yet begun.

To peter's point, it isn't particularly straightforward to figure out quickly where to look to try to see the boats in training (its arguable whether oracle want that or not). We live in a culture increasingly desirous of fast information feedback, and my cursory searches in some obvious places (AC website, Twitter, locations around town) bore no fruit. SA forums are a great resource, but the lay-person who saw a cool photo of the boats and heard they were in town and wanted a glimpse is not going to land here immediately.

At the end of the day, it's a big bay, and one probably only wants to know where to look, on what day, on the off chance of a sighting.

Given the team's base location, it may not be a bad idea to 'buzz' the piers at the beginning and end of each training day in SF, with some posters in the ferry building and at pier 39 highlighting that event on appropriate days. There's are awfully big crowds milling around there, and I'm sure most of them would think it pretty cool.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seen at a rant here

 

2867700.web_.template-copy-450x600.jpg

 

 

It's no surprise that when it's complimentary to larry and russ vision it's a 'good fun read' but if it's bad, it's a rant...

The guy actually knows enough to be heard...don't expect you to listen...

 

Third, it will give a much needed spark to our economy.

 

LIKE A STIMULUS PACKAGE? SO WHY DON’T WE GIVE THE NINE-FIGURES TO THE PEOPLE NOW, INSTEAD OF TO LARRY ELLISON?

 

The 34th America’s Cup will create more than 8,000 jobs and pump an estimated $1.4 billion dollars into our economy.

 

BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT. NUMBER ONE, YOU’RE JUST GUESSING. NUMBER TWO, ITS A WILDLY-INFLATED GUESS, AS EVERYBODY WHO HAS LOOKED INTO THIS ALREADY KNOWS. AREN”T THE CURRENT WILDLY-INFLATED ESTIMATES MUCH LOWER THAN THIS ALREADY?

 

Among major sporting events, the America’s Cup delivers the third largest economic impact to host destinations, exceeded only by the Olympic Games and World Cup.

 

THIS STAT WILL NEED TO BE RE-WRITTEN AFTER THE AMERICA’S CUP TURNS INTO A FIASCO OVER THE NEXT YEAR OR SO. WOULDN’T SAN FRANCISCO PREFER TO GET THE WARRIORS OR TO NOT LOSE THE NINERS? AND HAS MONTREAL FINALLY FINISHED PAYING OFF ITS OLYMPICS FROM LIKE FOUR DECADES AGO? WHAT KIND OF IMPACT WAS THAT? AND HOW ABOUT GREECE? WHAT DID THE OLYMPICS DO TO GREECE?

 

Of course, with any major event come some temporary inconveniences and sacrifices like traffic, parking and crowded restaurants.

 

WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THAT? WE”RE PAYING WAY TOO MUCH MONEY FOR THE CUP AND TOO MUCH OF THE RISK IS ON US. AND ALL THE NUMBERS FROM THE PROMOTERS ARE PROVING TO BE WRONG ALREADY. WHY DO YOU TALK ABOUT THE GOOD THINGS YOU GUESS MIGHT HAPPEN WITHOUT MENTIONING THE BAD?

 

WHY DON’T YOU TELL US WHAT IT WILL COST US? YOU DON’T SEEM TO CARE. MAYBE IF IT COST US A BILLION, YOU’D STILL APPROVE? WHO KNOWS? MAYBE.

 

LARRY ELLISON WANTS TO PLAY AROUND WITH BOATS, BUT LARRY ELLISON WANTS US TO PAY FOR IT AND HAVE US TAKE THE BULK OF THE RISK.

 

IT’S A SORRY SITUATION.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I could have posted the Cheerleading article instead, that the ranter was responding to.

 

Neither piece argues anything new, neither party adds good argument, the more noteworthy item in all of it is Mayor Lee's booster meeting. So that's what I did post.

 

Lee is also hosting an event at Red's on P30 in about 15 minutes from now. edit: At Sbutt:

 

LOCALS ONLY: At 11:00 am on Monday, Feb 27, San Francisco Mayor Edwin Lee will host a roundtable discussion on the benefits of hosting the 34th America's Cup at the screamingly unpretentious local landmark - Red's Java House at The Embarcadero & Bryant Street.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's also this...not sure if it's a reschedule from Red's:

 

*** REVISED MEDIA ADVISORY ***

 

 

MAYOR EDWIN M. LEE’S SCHEDULE OF PUBLIC EVENTS FOR MONDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 2012

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1:00 PM

 

Mayor Lee and America’s Cup Event Authority to make announcement about 34th America’s Cup.

 

Pier 80 at Oracle Racing Team Base

 

Marin Street at Illinois Street

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LE needs this about as much as he needs a hole in his head. SF apparently just is too difficult a place to get stuff like this done, it's been the concern here all along. Fine, so long as they can still hold the races!

Good, let him organize a boat race at GGYC or else, and let the piers to a developper willing to have a win win situation with the city.

 

 

What makes you think ANY developer in their right mind would consider messing with SFO after the crap Ellison has had to go through on this issue, particularly when you consider how much support he had from the many big hitters that and jumped on board with the AC effort? Can you imagine some plain developer getting the support Ellison has had from Newsome, Lee, et al for some simple development project without the cache this project has had? And without that kind of support, why would any developer want to mess with what would assured to be a similar or even more severe battle by the same malcontents?

 

Good, let him organize a boat race at GGYC or else, and let the piers to a developper willing to have a win win situation with the city.

The City has been looking for such a developer for 20 years. LE is the first to come along who can back up his bullshit with real $.

 

edit:

I used to work for developers. They do everything with other peoples' money and structure their deals so their principals can avoid all liability. They are not the sort of people a municipality wants to have a long term relationship with. It will be a long time before SF finds anyone as substantial as LE to deal with.

 

 

One of your better posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see the article on the FP, but all homie had to do was look here, the training dates were posted weeks ago. The next session will be March 12-23, excluding weekends.

 

 

I think his point is that if someone like himself or his son who are interested sailors and well aware of the AC can't readily find the info then how can the ACEA possibly expect to recruit new interest from those that are presently not aware at all ? Here is a guy with a real interest , feet on the ground in the heart of the goings on and can't even find out the most basic of facts . With sports marketing apparently being his profession someone should take heed. Kudos to SA for posting his letter , perhaps someone of authority will finally get a clue .

 

 

I was wondering just how much they wanted to let everyone know, at this time, exactly what time and where they will be, testing out their own, semi-secret stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was trying to be facetious, but it came off wrong. I agree, it's pretty strange that one can glean more information from an online forum where it's customary to tell each other to F-off and to SYGFTs, than the official web site.

 

Maybe they keep it on the downlow in an effort to stop a bunch of gawkers from getting in the way. I would.

 

I did miss your true meaning. The guy did have a point . I would think that they would be doing everything they could to get the word out especially with the vote on Tuesday.

 

 

I believe if it was truly about training, rather than TESTING, they would have more interest in using it as PR opportunities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was trying to be facetious, but it came off wrong. I agree, it's pretty strange that one can glean more information from an online forum where it's customary to tell each other to F-off and to SYGFTs, than the official web site.

 

Maybe they keep it on the downlow in an effort to stop a bunch of gawkers from getting in the way. I would.

 

I did miss your true meaning. The guy did have a point . I would think that they would be doing everything they could to get the word out especially with the vote on Tuesday.

 

 

I believe if it was truly about training, rather than TESTING, they would have more interest in using it as PR opportunities.

 

They have PR events like the media day. They have member events. and they have team events. The latter is focused on a successful defense and they don't need/desire spectators. Different people and planning for each.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LE needs this about as much as he needs a hole in his head. SF apparently just is too difficult a place to get stuff like this done, it's been the concern here all along. Fine, so long as they can still hold the races!

Good, let him organize a boat race at GGYC or else, and let the piers to a developper willing to have a win win situation with the city.

 

 

What makes you think ANY developer in their right mind would consider messing with SFO after the crap Ellison has had to go through on this issue, particularly when you consider how much support he had from the many big hitters that and jumped on board with the AC effort? Can you imagine some plain developer getting the support Ellison has had from Newsome, Lee, et al for some simple development project without the cache this project has had? And without that kind of support, why would any developer want to mess with what would assured to be a similar or even more severe battle by the same malcontents?

 

Good, let him organize a boat race at GGYC or else, and let the piers to a developper willing to have a win win situation with the city.

The City has been looking for such a developer for 20 years. LE is the first to come along who can back up his bullshit with real $.

 

edit:

I used to work for developers. They do everything with other peoples' money and structure their deals so their principals can avoid all liability. They are not the sort of people a municipality wants to have a long term relationship with. It will be a long time before SF finds anyone as substantial as LE to deal with.

 

 

One of your better posts.

 

 

 

 

 

When an "asset" is left to rot for decades there are several highly likely truths:

 

* The asset has a negative basis.

* The regulatory environment is uncertain, unpredictable or toxic.

* There is no obvious market.

* The problem is simply too large (or too small) to be attractive.

* There are no interested developers. (A developer: A guy with a dime and a thousand mirrors, an LLC and a sole interest in zero-sum games.)

 

All of these are the case on the SF waterfront. I have a decent portfolio in the assessment of the redevelopment potential of abandoned industrial properties. I've toured the SF piers with one of the most knowledgeable people in SF urban redevelopment. Those piers have an extraordinary negative value to any redevelopment scheme as they sit there. Their ONLY value is that they cover water surface.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When an "asset" is left to rot for decades there are several highly likely truths:

 

* The asset has a negative basis.

* The regulatory environment is uncertain, unpredictable or toxic.

* There is no obvious market.

* The problem is simply too large (or too small) to be attractive.

* There are no interested developers. (A developer: A guy with a dime and a thousand mirrors, an LLC and a sole interest in zero-sum games.)

 

All of these are the case on the SF waterfront. I have a decent portfolio in the assessment of the redevelopment potential of abandoned industrial properties. I've toured the SF piers with one of the most knowledgeable people in SF urban redevelopment. Those piers have an extraordinary negative value to any redevelopment scheme as they sit there. Their ONLY value is that they cover water surface.

 

 

 

 

Nailed it. The improvements necessary to build anything (including the dreaded condominiums, which likely won't happen on a short ground lease of 66 years) on these piers are so costly that it takes any profit out of the equation for a developer. Believe me - this is what I do for a living. If they were a decent investment, someone would have done it a long time ago - there is no money to be made by the development of the piers alone. It's solely a way to try to recoup some of the costs.

 

Also - remember - under a ground lease - the CITY GETS THE PIERS BACK at the end of the 66 years. With title to all of the improvements that have been constructed thereon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When an "asset" is left to rot for decades there are several highly likely truths:

 

* The asset has a negative basis.

* The regulatory environment is uncertain, unpredictable or toxic.

* There is no obvious market.

* The problem is simply too large (or too small) to be attractive.

* There are no interested developers. (A developer: A guy with a dime and a thousand mirrors, an LLC and a sole interest in zero-sum games.)

 

All of these are the case on the SF waterfront. I have a decent portfolio in the assessment of the redevelopment potential of abandoned industrial properties. I've toured the SF piers with one of the most knowledgeable people in SF urban redevelopment. Those piers have an extraordinary negative value to any redevelopment scheme as they sit there. Their ONLY value is that they cover water surface.

 

Nailed it. The improvements necessary to build anything (including the dreaded condominiums, which likely won't happen on a short ground lease of 66 years) on these piers are so costly that it takes any profit out of the equation for a developer. Believe me - this is what I do for a living. If they were a decent investment, someone would have done it a long time ago - there is no money to be made by the development of the piers alone. It's solely a way to try to recoup some of the costs.

 

Also - remember - under a ground lease - the CITY GETS THE PIERS BACK at the end of the 66 years. With title to all of the improvements that have been constructed thereon.

 

Why is it that these positions are not brought up before the televised BOS meetings ?

 

Barclay either needs a coach or he needs to do a better job of re-framing these discussions, and at the beginning of his speech, not at the end, and then elaborate a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Biiingooo - exactly what I have been arguing / guessing:

 

New tweet by the guy above:

 

Breaking: SF Mayor announces #AmericasCup teams will be based at Pier 80 instead of Piers 30-32, to reduce SF's investment & financial risk

 

edit: SCR beat me to it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could be interesting, what Lee says at P80.

 

This from a tweet by someone

--

 

Doug SovernSources tell me deal will be announced 2 move #AmericasCup from Piers 30-32 to different pier, reducing infrastructure cost & $ risk to City

 

 

 

Live Web-Cast ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is good news for the schedule, let Peskin and Telegraph Hill justify their obstructionist position with the Port as to why the piers will be left to fall into the SF Bay.

 

America's Cup organizers eliminate major parts of development deal

America's Cup race organizers decided to cut the heart out of a proposed development deal with the city, giving up on plans to overhaul Piers 30-32 south of the Bay Bridge, Mayor Ed Lee announced today.

 

However, the elite yachting races, beginning with exhibition matches on the Bay in August and culminating with the trophy competition next year, will go on as planned.

 

The America's Cup Event Authority, led by billionaire Larry Ellison, to put on the regatta, has been locked in intense negotiations with city officials on a final deal to prepare San Francisco's waterfront for the races.

 

A key component of the proposed agreement was to give the Event Authority a 66-year, rent-free lease on Piers 30-32 and title to Seawall Lot 330 across the Embarcadero. In exchange, the Event Authority would pay $55 million to stabilize Piers 30-32, a conjoined single pier on the prime waterfront location that was to be used as a home base for some of the racing teams.

 

Now, all of the teams will be based out of Pier 80 further south.

 

The Board of Supervisors was scheduled to vote on the proposed deal Tuesday, with no guarantee of approval.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is good news for the schedule, let Peskin and Telegraph Hill justify their obstructionist position with the Port as to why the piers will be left to fall into the SF Bay.

 

America's Cup organizers eliminate major parts of development deal

America's Cup race organizers decided to cut the heart out of a proposed development deal with the city, giving up on plans to overhaul Piers 30-32 south of the Bay Bridge, Mayor Ed Lee announced today.

 

However, the elite yachting races, beginning with exhibition matches on the Bay in August and culminating with the trophy competition next year, will go on as planned.

 

The America's Cup Event Authority, led by billionaire Larry Ellison, to put on the regatta, has been locked in intense negotiations with city officials on a final deal to prepare San Francisco's waterfront for the races.

 

A key component of the proposed agreement was to give the Event Authority a 66-year, rent-free lease on Piers 30-32 and title to Seawall Lot 330 across the Embarcadero. In exchange, the Event Authority would pay $55 million to stabilize Piers 30-32, a conjoined single pier on the prime waterfront location that was to be used as a home base for some of the racing teams.

 

Now, all of the teams will be based out of Pier 80 further south.

 

The Board of Supervisors was scheduled to vote on the proposed deal Tuesday, with no guarantee of approval.

 

Dang, what will Peskin & Avalos have left to argue about now? And, will this dropped-ball piers fiasco help Peskin, when he tries to unseat SFBOS chair David Chiu later this year? Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Biiingo - exactly what I have been arguing / guessing:

 

New tweet by the guy above:

 

Breaking: SF Mayor announces #AmericasCup teams will be based at Pier 80 instead of Piers 30-32, to reduce SF's investment & financial risk

 

edit: SCR beat me to it!

 

 

and leaving Piers 30/32 to remain the rotting, crumbling-into-the-bay parking lots they have been for decades.

 

F'ing idiots... well, we're getting closer to the golf tourny-like, temp hospitality tents model. I guess the four or five boats could fit on 80 no problem, whereas 30/32 was designed for 10 teams or thereabouts.

 

Real bummer is that P 80 is another mile or so further south, much more isolated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also being confirmed by this guy (who happens to be Comm of the South Beach YC nearby)

 

olivaglobal@olivaglobal

Mayor Ed Lee just announced Piers 30-32 will be removed from #americascup event plan. Team bases will be Pier 80

 

me: So LE told the SFBOS to just solve that piers problem themselves ;)

 

stronger negotiating position for AC 35... biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When an "asset" is left to rot for decades there are several highly likely truths:

 

* The asset has a negative basis.

* The regulatory environment is uncertain, unpredictable or toxic.

* There is no obvious market.

* The problem is simply too large (or too small) to be attractive.

* There are no interested developers. (A developer: A guy with a dime and a thousand mirrors, an LLC and a sole interest in zero-sum games.)

 

All of these are the case on the SF waterfront. I have a decent portfolio in the assessment of the redevelopment potential of abandoned industrial properties. I've toured the SF piers with one of the most knowledgeable people in SF urban redevelopment. Those piers have an extraordinary negative value to any redevelopment scheme as they sit there. Their ONLY value is that they cover water surface.

 

AND . . .

Their (the piers and the bay frontage) value will get smaller and smaller as time goes by and they fall into the sea. It is usually easier to get permission to "re-develop" a place where there is already development than to try and make new development where there is open space, and I would imagine that is even more the case with these piers and SFO politics. If the piers continue to deteriorate and fall into the sea, I could very easily see it happen where nothing ever is developed there again as I imagine it will just get harder to secure approval to develop a new pier/development where there is, at that point, open bay frontage. It might end up being scenic, with new open bay frontage, but it will be a loss in value, utility, and tax base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites