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News from SF Embarcadero...

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I think the highest speed I've done racing on SF bay was 24kts. I usually left the tactics up to Peter Isler, Schobie or Mark Reynolds as they all have a just a bit more experience than I :) A sailboard or kite board really aren't a relative comparison to any sailboat on SF bay as they spend a lot of time out of the water and therefor out of the current. If thats is what you are basing your theory on things I am beginning to understand where you are coming from .

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We'll see soon enough how much emphasis is placed on current when the AC45s race there.

You're right in that I haven't sailed in SF. But the point applies anywhere - I notice you don't address it directly though.

It would be equally impertinent to ask if have you called tactics at 30 knots, or raced a sailboard or kiteboard?

Hate to agree with MaxiPad, but I'll race you in any class where you spend time in three knots against and I don't have to. Haven't you ever died a slow death when someone has a tenth of knot to windward on you? I guess faster boats would minimize the pain, but I bet they still need a shift or more wind or something tactical to make it worth bucking the tide.

 

Just for kicks, I wonder how much deadweight it would take to make an AC72 go three knots slower in 30 knots of wind? 500 kilos? I also wonder how much seaweed it would take, but I can tell you exactly how much current it would take*.

 

Koukel

 

*May require my 8th grader's help to do the math.

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We'll see soon enough how much emphasis is placed on current when the AC45s race there.

You're right in that I haven't sailed in SF. But the point applies anywhere - I notice you don't address it directly though.

It would be equally impertinent to ask if have you called tactics at 30 knots, or raced a sailboard or kiteboard?

Hate to agree with MaxiPad, but I'll race you in any class where you spend time in three knots against and I don't have to. Haven't you ever died a slow death when someone has a tenth of knot to windward on you? I guess faster boats would minimize the pain, but I bet they still need a shift or more wind or something tactical to make it worth bucking the tide.

 

Just for kicks, I wonder how much deadweight it would take to make an AC72 go three knots slower in 30 knots of wind? 500 kilos? I also wonder how much seaweed it would take, but I can tell you exactly how much current it would take*.

 

Koukel

 

*May require my 8th grader's help to do the math.

 

 

Obviously, but the point was that a current which is serious for a 4ksb is much less serious for a 40ksb and therefore plays less of a role, if any, in their tactics.

 

So chasing puffs with a sail-board, kite-board or fast cat and ignoring any additional adverse current may well be a winning strategy, but doing so in a keel boat will likely see you falling to the back of the fleet.

 

It's not that complicated is it? Even for an 8th graderhuh.gif

 

 

mm - "All my keel boat buddies agree current is critical" is hardly a convincing argument now is it??

 

If you had sailed with DB or JS and they had said they'd be avoiding sailing in more (adverse) current than their opposition, even if it meant missing extra windspeed elsewhere on the course - well then I'd start listening.

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We'll see soon enough how much emphasis is placed on current when the AC45s race there.

You're right in that I haven't sailed in SF. But the point applies anywhere - I notice you don't address it directly though.

It would be equally impertinent to ask if have you called tactics at 30 knots, or raced a sailboard or kiteboard?

Hate to agree with MaxiPad, but I'll race you in any class where you spend time in three knots against and I don't have to. Haven't you ever died a slow death when someone has a tenth of knot to windward on you? I guess faster boats would minimize the pain, but I bet they still need a shift or more wind or something tactical to make it worth bucking the tide.

 

Just for kicks, I wonder how much deadweight it would take to make an AC72 go three knots slower in 30 knots of wind? 500 kilos? I also wonder how much seaweed it would take, but I can tell you exactly how much current it would take*.

 

Koukel

 

*May require my 8th grader's help to do the math.

 

 

Obviously, but the point was that a current which is serious for a 4ksb is much less serious for a 40ksb and therefore plays less of a role, if any, in their tactics.

 

So chasing puffs with a sail-board, kite-board or fast cat and ignoring any additional adverse current may well be a winning strategy, but doing so in a keel boat will likely see you falling to the back of the fleet.

 

It's not that complicated is it? Even for an 8th graderhuh.gif

 

 

mm - "All my keel boat buddies agree current is critical" is hardly a convincing argument now is it??

 

If you had sailed with DB or JS and they had said they'd be avoiding sailing in more (adverse) current than their opposition, even if it meant missing extra windspeed elsewhere on the course - well then I'd start listening.

 

 

If you think either of them would chat about their real tactics prior to the event I dont know what to say. :rolleyes: In any event you know what they say about internet " discussions ".

 

muddy-pig.jpg

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Tide/Current may factor into which mark you round at a gate, and into how soon to tack or gybe after rounding; along with what your opponent is doing, where the best wind angle is, etc; but after that, I bet they tend to rocket for the boundary lines, minimizing maneuvers as much as possible. At 20 knots up and 40 knots down, there will be a lot besides current to also worry about.

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So chasing puffs with a sail-board, kite-board or fast cat and ignoring any additional adverse current may well be a winning strategy, but doing so in a keel boat will likely see you falling to the back of the fleet.

It's not that complicated is it? Even for an 8th graderhuh.gif

It's a lot easier to get your point when you make the letters big and underline them, guess I missed it before.

 

So how much static weight to make a 72 go three knots slower in 30 then if you got all the answers?

 

Koukel

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current relief may be more about managing seastate, the displayed boat is looking pretty flat in the forefoot.

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current relief may be more about managing seastate, the displayed boat is looking pretty flat in the forefoot.

 

Nice to think about current.

 

But the big issue is breakage.

 

Can I get this monster around the course without implosion and nasty noises?

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current relief may be more about managing seastate, the displayed boat is looking pretty flat in the forefoot.

 

Nice to think about current.

 

But the big issue is breakage.

 

Can I get this monster around the course without implosion and nasty noises?

 

 

Well, looks like everyone has their pet issues... fact is that SF Bay can be brutal for all these issues and the sooner they all get training here (at the sailing capital of the World) the better. So many sport boats round up coming around the windward marks, the center vs the city front for current relief, the effect of the City on the breeze, the sometimes extremely choppy sea state... all will make for some exciting racing. Can't wait.

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Tide/Current may factor into which mark you round at a gate, and into how soon to tack or gybe after rounding; along with what your opponent is doing, where the best wind angle is, etc; but after that, I bet they tend to rocket for the boundary lines, minimizing maneuvers as much as possible. At 20 knots up and 40 knots down, there will be a lot besides current to also worry about.

 

 

Pretty damn accurate Stinger.

 

The current will have less of an affect than most here seem to believe.

 

The way it works: During a flood current through the gate, a reverse current begins to build along the city front shoreline. Sometime before max flood the counter current on the shoreline begins appear. At first it is only feet wide and less than .25 knot. You can see shoreside bubbles or foam moving toward the gate (ebb flow). This flow builds and widens from the shore outward. At first only small boats can take advantage of it due to the need to contstantly tack or gybe within its width. Over time, it widens to maybe hundreds of yards and increasingly larger boats can work within its width. This is what creates the exciting city front racing during Big Boat. At some point the width of the ebb flow is greeted at the outer edge by the new ebb flow that has started to leave the entire bay. Then the whole bay is ebbing and an early flood begins along the shoreline thus beginning the process anew but in reverse direction.

 

The reason it wont affect the racing to the extent that some envision is the 72s will cost/benefit the tack/gybe vs current relief and choose longer legs over more manuevers. The only times this may not apply is if reverse current is far enough off shore to allow for the added manuvers and/or the breeze is very light and the benefit of staying within the the good water exceeds the added turns. And don't laugh, September can be very warm in the city with light breezes lasting through most of the day. May thru August are usually heavy afternoon air but September and October can be heavy, moderate or even light air.

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Well, looks like everyone has their pet issues... fact is that SF Bay can be brutal for all these issues and the sooner they all get training here (at the sailing capital of the World) the better. So many sport boats round up coming around the windward marks, the center vs the city front for current relief, the effect of the City on the breeze, the sometimes extremely choppy sea state... all will make for some exciting racing. Can't wait.

 

Not being from there, I know squat about this.

 

But, apart from a general discussion during the pre-race briefing ("try and stay away from this bit over here"), at the speeds they are travelling, will they have the margin to worry about current?

 

I still maintain getting around in one piece is the issue.

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OT but there was a recent IM quote that hit me square between the eyes, where he said something like 'The AC72's will be going at 50+ apparent - 50+. Just try standing on a tramp in that much wind!'

 

Jeepers...

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OT but there was a recent IM quote that hit me square between the eyes, where he said something like 'The AC72's will be going at 50+ apparent - 50+. Just try standing on a tramp in that much wind!'

 

Jeepers...

 

 

Goggles? I know my eyes start watering pretty good at around 35-40.

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Event location details, pending BCDC approval, dated June 1

http://www.bcdc.ca.g...0607AC34Rec.pdf

 

 

This document will raise some eyebrows with all the animal and habitat protection and the great reference to the Dyke March in the attendance estimates... hilarious!

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Actually I may have worded that incorrectly. The port commission approved the BCDC permit application.

 

I found this interesting and do not remember noticing it before, but am personally excited about it (EDIT found here):

 

 

Marina Green. Construct, temporarily use and maintain from August to November

2012, an approximately 8,000-square-foot (0.18 acre, 500-foot by 16-foot) floating

dock and 480-square-foot (six-foot by 80-foot) gangway secured with fourteen

18-inch-in-diameter steel piles, extending from the center of the Marina Green lawn;

and twenty-eight 24-square-foot concrete block anchors to provide 14 moorings for

AC45 (45-foot-long yacht) racing yachts within an approximately 178,324-squarefoot (4.10 acre) area offshore of the Marina Green. Remove the floating dock,

gangway, and piles and 24 of the 28 mooring concrete block anchors following the

2012 events (no later than November 30, 2012).

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Event location details, pending BCDC approval, dated June 1

http://www.bcdc.ca.g...0607AC34Rec.pdf

 

 

This document will raise some eyebrows with all the animal and habitat protection and the great reference to the Dyke March in the attendance estimates... hilarious!

 

 

So compared to the dykes, the giants don't rate much!

 

Oh well, as Mao said, "these are interesting times."

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Event location details, pending BCDC approval, dated June 1

http://www.bcdc.ca.g...0607AC34Rec.pdf

 

 

This document will raise some eyebrows with all the animal and habitat protection and the great reference to the Dyke March in the attendance estimates... hilarious!

 

 

So compared to the dykes, the giants don't rate much!

 

Oh well, as Mao said, "these are interesting times."

 

Noticed that too, amazing. just goes to show who the real attraction is around SF. The gay pride parade and Castro street fair aren't even mentioned!

 

Back to the BCDC document, I couldn't help wanting to put dollars to each of the items... huge development costs here! He does get 70 year development rights on some real estate but wow.

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Event location details, pending BCDC approval, dated June 1

http://www.bcdc.ca.g...0607AC34Rec.pdf

 

 

This document will raise some eyebrows with all the animal and habitat protection and the great reference to the Dyke March in the attendance estimates... hilarious!

 

 

So compared to the dykes, the giants don't rate much!

 

Oh well, as Mao said, "these are interesting times."

You thought Naples and Venice welcomed the ACWS ?

 

You haven't seen anything yet.

 

Wait till you see Avalos and Peshkin out on Peshkin point with two sparklers in their hands and the dykes marching in the background.

 

This city may have it's good points, but recognizing or welcoming the AC does not seem to be on the radar screen, and by the time it makes it there the event will be over.

 

Other cities have committees to welcome the event, SF has committees to undermine it and file law suits. Peshkin should be so proud of himself. Someone should have told him he's on a world stage making an ass out of himself, but he thinks he's a hero for being the lead obstructionist to a bunch of tree huggers. I'm surprised LE didn't walk from negotiations earlier.

 

Even Newport is doing a better job with an ACWS event, let alone the cup itself.

 

Of course then we have the local club politics to short the local fans.

 

As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

Growing up in Santa Cruz, and knowing how the politics and the citizenry is in that region of the world works, I never underestimated the ability of the Anti-Everything Crowd and Anti-Everything Politicians to destroy what could be the most amazing sailing event, and an amazing sporting event. It's amazing anything good ever happens there.

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

Growing up in Santa Cruz, and knowing how the politics and the citizenry is in that region of the world works, I never underestimated the ability of the Anti-Everything Crowd and Anti-Everything Politicians to destroy what could be the most amazing sailing event, and an amazing sporting event. It's amazing anything good ever happens there.

 

The root cause seems to be embedded in pure arrogance wrapped in a nice thick warm blanket of politics.

 

Like RC said, he thinks SF is lucky to have the AC, but he's not sure SF thinks so.

 

So true.

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

Growing up in Santa Cruz, and knowing how the politics and the citizenry is in that region of the world works, I never underestimated the ability of the Anti-Everything Crowd and Anti-Everything Politicians to destroy what could be the most amazing sailing event, and an amazing sporting event. It's amazing anything good ever happens there.

 

The root cause seems to be embedded in pure arrogance wrapped in a nice thick warm blanket of politics.

 

Like RC said, he thinks SF is lucky to have the AC, but he's not sure SF thinks so.

 

So true.

 

My bet on AC35:

 

 

 

It won't be in SF, no matter who wins.

 

As much as LE wanted to have the Cup in SF, I do not think he will put himself through the wringer again, when there are other venues that would be much easier to work with.

 

Newport may be a dry run for next time.

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

Growing up in Santa Cruz, and knowing how the politics and the citizenry is in that region of the world works, I never underestimated the ability of the Anti-Everything Crowd and Anti-Everything Politicians to destroy what could be the most amazing sailing event, and an amazing sporting event. It's amazing anything good ever happens there.

 

The root cause seems to be embedded in pure arrogance wrapped in a nice thick warm blanket of politics.

 

Like RC said, he thinks SF is lucky to have the AC, but he's not sure SF thinks so.

 

So true.

 

well coutts made a huge mistake hiring a bunch of foreigners to pitch how much money san fran was going to make out of this with documents that we just pure utter bullshit and then he had fire all of them. so why should any of the politicians believe anything he is going to say or roll out the red carpet for him. coutts made his own bed now he has to lay it he's damn lucky to have gotten this far he just does not understand local or california politics.

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

Growing up in Santa Cruz, and knowing how the politics and the citizenry is in that region of the world works, I never underestimated the ability of the Anti-Everything Crowd and Anti-Everything Politicians to destroy what could be the most amazing sailing event, and an amazing sporting event. It's amazing anything good ever happens there.

 

The root cause seems to be embedded in pure arrogance wrapped in a nice thick warm blanket of politics.

 

Like RC said, he thinks SF is lucky to have the AC, but he's not sure SF thinks so.

 

So true.

 

well coutts made a huge mistake hiring a bunch of foreigners to pitch how much money san fran was going to make out of this with documents that we just pure utter bullshit and then he had fire all of them. so why should any of the politicians believe anything he is going to say or roll out the red carpet for him. coutts made his own bed now he has to lay it he's damn lucky to have gotten this far he just does not understand local or california politics.

 

RC works for LE. LE's home is SF. LE's yacht club is in SF. RC was doing the job handed to him to make it the best regatta possible in SF. LE hoped that an event with the stature of the AC would be welcomed.

 

Problem is, the people that cannot see beyond their own blind ambitions went full tilt against the regatta, and the politicians paved the way.

 

RC has seen what a successful AC can be, and what it is like for a city that welcomes it with open arms.

 

Now he has gotten the taste of one that does not, for the first time in his career.

 

Now he is seeing what one that will throw it all away with both hands is like.

 

 

Shame for SF and Cali.

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Well short of taking shots at RC, this city could screw up a wet dream no matter who was working the deal, and I would have expected nothing less if Obama was involved, which I think is a pretty safe statement. Do you honestly think Peshkin cared RC was involved ?? Shouldn't take much thought to answer that question, and don't ask for Mark Buell's thoughts on the political aspects of the matter if you think otherwise. He's only the democratic party chairman of SF, but that doesn't matter.

 

The beauty of this it is that Alameda has welcomed Artemis open arms, basically telling Avalos and Peshkin to shove it. It would be poetic justice to see a few more teams go to Alameda. Let the SF politicians explain that one, in addition to what they already screwed up.

 

Choices are a wonderful thing, especially when political ass holes are involved.

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Actually I may have worded that incorrectly. The port commission approved the BCDC permit application.

 

I found this interesting and do not remember noticing it before, but am personally excited about it (EDIT found here):

 

 

Marina Green. Construct, temporarily use and maintain from August to November

2012, an approximately 8,000-square-foot (0.18 acre, 500-foot by 16-foot) floating

dock and 480-square-foot (six-foot by 80-foot) gangway secured with fourteen

18-inch-in-diameter steel piles, extending from the center of the Marina Green lawn;

and twenty-eight 24-square-foot concrete block anchors to provide 14 moorings for

AC45 (45-foot-long yacht) racing yachts within an approximately 178,324-squarefoot (4.10 acre) area offshore of the Marina Green. Remove the floating dock,

gangway, and piles and 24 of the 28 mooring concrete block anchors following the

2012 events (no later than November 30, 2012).

 

LOL

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And the proverbial " small print " :) They are taking this circus seriously :ph34r:

 

Built Project must be Consistent with Application. Work must be performed in the precise

manner and at the precise locations indicated in your application, as such may

have been modified by the terms of the permit and any plans approved in writing by or

on behalf of the Commission.

 

G. Life of Authorization. Unless otherwise provided in this permit, all the terms and conditions

of this permit shall remain effective for so long as the permit remains in effect or

for so long as any use or construction authorized by this permit exists, whichever is

longer.

 

H. Commission Jurisdiction. Any area subject to the jurisdiction of the San Francisco Bay

Conservation and Development Commission under either the McAteer-Petris Act or

the Suisun Marsh Preservation Act at the time the permit is granted or thereafter shall

remain subject to that jurisdiction notwithstanding the placement of any fill or the

implementation of any substantial change in use authorized by this permit. Any area

not subject to the jurisdiction of the San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development

Commission that becomes, as a result of any work or project authorized in this permit,

subject to tidal action shall become subject to the Commission’s “bay” jurisdiction.

 

I. Changes to the Commission’s Jurisdiction as a Result of Natural Processes. This permit

reflects the location of the shoreline of San Francisco Bay when the permit was issued.

Over time, erosion, avulsion, accretion, subsidence, relative sea level change, and other

factors may change the location of the shoreline, which may, in turn, change the extent

of the Commission’s regulatory jurisdiction. Therefore, the issuance of this permit does

not guarantee that the Commission’s jurisdiction will not change in the future.

 

J. Violation of Permit May Lead to Permit Revocation. Except as otherwise noted, violation

of any of the terms of this permit shall be grounds for revocation. The Commission may

revoke any permit for such violation after a public hearing held on reasonable notice to

the permittees or its assignee if the permit has been effectively assigned. If the permit is

revoked, the Commission may determine, if it deems appropriate, that all or part of any

fill or structure placed pursuant to this permit shall be removed by the permittees or its

assignee if the permit has been assigned.

 

K. Should Permit Conditions Be Found to be Ilegal or Unenforceable. Unless the Commission

directs otherwise, this permit shall become null and void if any term, standard

condition, or special condition of this permit shall be found illegal or unenforceable

through the application of statute, administrative ruling, or court determination. If this

permit becomes null and void, any fill or structures placed in reliance on this permit

shall be subject to removal by the permittees or their assignees if the permit has been

assigned to the extent that the Commission determines that such removal is appropriate.

Any uses authorized shall be terminated to the extent that the Commission determines

that such uses should be terminated.

 

L. Permission to Conduct Site Visit. The permittees shall grant permission to any member

of the Commission’s staff to conduct a site visit at the subject property during and after

construction to verify that the project is being and has been constructed in compliance

with the authorization and conditions contained herein. Site visits may occur during

business hours without prior notice and after business hours with 24-hour notice.

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LOL

Gone sailing lately? Took a logic class? Said anything positive? Used lower case letters? Refrained from suing anyone?

 

Koukel

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LOL

Gone sailing lately? Took a logic class? Said anything positive? Used lower case letters? Refrained from suing anyone?

 

Koukel

 

 

Koukel ... these comments are not helpful.

And reflect more on you than MSP.

 

Some people welcome him back.

 

So you resort to abuse.

 

Grow up mate!

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LOL

Gone sailing lately? Took a logic class? Said anything positive? Used lower case letters? Refrained from suing anyone?

Koukel

Koukel ... these comments are not helpful.

And reflect more on you than MSP.

Some people welcome him back.

So you resort to abuse.

Grow up mate!

Negative? I think you mean hopeful. If these happen to be uncormfortable questions, I believe they have been earned. I hear the occassional difficult question is asked in the legal arena and Mr. Pilgrims seems to spend much of his time with legalities.

 

Would you like me to pretend he did not write many of the posts he has written so new readers will think kindly of him? Or, should I treat him differently than everyone else because of his heritage?

 

Koukel

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Some people welcome (MSP) back.

 

"People" is plural. I wonder who, other than you, welcomes him back. I bloody don't, for the reasons Koukel has outlined.

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Some people welcome him back.

 

 

Our resident Indian is off double secret probation? Great.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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LOL

Gone sailing lately? Took a logic class? Said anything positive? Used lower case letters? Refrained from suing anyone?

 

Koukel

 

Koukel ... these comments are not helpful.

 

The same can be said about many of your off-color, irrelevant and often inaccurate political comments that don't belong here either.

 

If you welcome his comments so much you guys can just PM each other and spare us all the BS and nonsense he clutters the treads with..

 

 

 

 

 

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Or, should I treat him differently than everyone else because of his heritage?

 

Koukel

 

I think you could manifest a bit of courtesy.

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

I welcome the openness of these statements from you and Gaucho Greg.

 

About your local politics.

 

But, really, if they are that awful, why don't you get involved?

 

Run for office.

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Or, should I treat him differently than everyone else because of his heritage?

 

Koukel

 

I think you could manifest a bit of courtesy.

 

Actually I thought he was more than courteous, and certainly factual which is equally if not more important.

 

And when did you appoint yourself as moderator anyway ?

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

I welcome the openness of these statements from you and Gaucho Greg.

 

About your local politics.

 

But, really, if they are that awful, why don't you get involved?

 

Run for office.

I will, as soon as you get your own country to run.

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As a Bay area resident this is so far a total embarrassment.

 

I've had zero respect for SF politics, and club politics are not far behind.

 

 

 

I welcome the openness of these statements from you and Gaucho Greg.

 

About your local politics.

 

But, really, if they are that awful, why don't you get involved?

 

Run for office.

TK, SWS is this kind of loser who, after losing every politic battle he fought is now criticizing .......politics. :D

 

I guess in his own mind, sucking Marcus and pissing on his vice commodore is not politics. Oh, well...

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And the next thread that was once about sailing goes the PA (Political Anarchy) and PI (Personal Insults) way. HHN92, wait for me, I'll join you into hibernation...

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And the next thread that was once about sailing goes the PA (Political Anarchy) and PI (Personal Insults) way. HHN92, wait for me, I'll join you into hibernation...

Pot meet Kettle Anarchy, that's what is missing here

 

pot-kettle-black.jpg

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And the next thread that was once about sailing goes the PA (Political Anarchy) and PI (Personal Insults) way. HHN92, wait for me, I'll join you into hibernation...

Pot meet Kettle Anarchy, that's what is missing here

 

pot-kettle-black.jpg

O.k. I'm guilty of severe personal insults, I know. No worries, as I said...

 

 

 

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And the next thread that was once about sailing goes the PA (Political Anarchy) and PI (Personal Insults) way. HHN92, wait for me, I'll join you into hibernation...

 

No need for that. Just a well-chosen ignore list. That's the only way I can stand to stay here.

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Pot meet Kettle Anarchy, that's what is missing here

 

pot-kettle-black.jpg

O.k. I'm guilty of severe personal insults, I know. No worries, as I said...

I'm guilty too, even though I haven't written too much here I wouldn't say in person.

 

Back to to sailing...

 

I've been told secretly how I screwed the pooch on some tactical smack, and in the true spirit of the America's Cup I won't say any more just in case not all competitors have figured it out yet.

 

Koukel

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And the next thread that was once about sailing goes the PA (Political Anarchy) and PI (Personal Insults) way. HHN92, wait for me, I'll join you into hibernation...

 

No need for that. Just a well-chosen ignore list. That's the only way I can stand to stay here.

 

Do you read many posters ? :)

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And the next thread that was once about sailing goes the PA (Political Anarchy) and PI (Personal Insults) way. HHN92, wait for me, I'll join you into hibernation...

Pot meet Kettle Anarchy, that's what is missing here

 

pot-kettle-black.jpg

O.k. I'm guilty of severe personal insults, I know. No worries, as I said...

ahem, that one was in no way aimed at you, but in hindsight I see it could be mistaken for that easily ... was more thinking about the usual suspects on previous page

mes excuses

sorry for that

mijn verontschuldigingen

entshuldigung

siemasen (that's phonetic, spot it if you can)

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seen at MojoSail

 

 

The Boys Are Back In Town

June 11, 2012

Team Oracle returned to San Francisco over the weekend, in advance of training sessions on the bay set to start Tuesday. Two crews are expected on the water daily from about 1300 on, getting some local knowledge for the World Series races later this year and the America's Cup itself next year. The practice is also a tune-up for World Series racing in Newport, Rhode Island at the end of June. That will be the last race in the first "World Series" session – and Oracle Spithill currently leads Emirates Team New Zealand by a four point margin.

 

oracle-72-wing-shipping.jpeg

 

While the crews are out on the water, the main element for the 130-foot long wingsail is due to arrive Tuesday from Core Builders in New Zealand. The snap is of the wing and the hull crossbeams loaded on board a freigher in Auckland, N.Z. According to Team Oracle, they'll be trucked from Oakland to San Francisco via San Jose – because they're too long to travel across the Bay Bridge. The wing and crossbeams will end up at Pier 80 where the hulls are under construction, and the whole shootin' match is expected to splash in July or August.

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at OR's FaceBook

 

Oracle Team USA

ORACLE TEAM USA’s sailors spent the past weekend gathering in San Francisco ahead of a training session scheduled to begin Tuesday, June 12. The two crews will be heading out daily from approximately 1:00 pm onwards, practicing on the proposed course area for the 2013 America’s Cup. The session is meant as a tune-up for the America’s Cup World Series concluder in Newport, RI, at the end of the month. The championship will be on the line in Newport, June 28-July 1, as ORACLE TEAM USA Spithill leads Emirates Team New Zealand by 4 points.

 

 

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50 minutes long

--

 

Published on Jun 5, 2012 by bayplanningcoalition

 

Session IX: 25th Annual San Francisco Bay Decisionmakers Conference presented by the Bay Planning Coalition.

 

This session's focus will be on the event's logistics and infrastructural needs to make America's Cup a success. Current Bay maritime users need to prepare for and anticipate the impacts of the America's Cup. The goal of the session is to discuss the necessary planning, logistics and coordination in place to ensure maritime impacts are minimal during the exciting event.

 

Moderator: Mr. Len Cardoza, Senior Technical Advisor and Project Manager, Weston Solutions

 

Speakers:

Captain Matt Bliven, Principal Coordinator, U.S. Coast Guard

Mr. Guy Bjerke, Manager of the Bay Area Region, Western States Petroleum

Association

Mr. David Olson, Olson Steel; Recreational Boater

Mr. John Craig, Principal Race Officer, America's Cup Race Management

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Dr. Jon Haveman, Vice President, Chief Economist, Bay Area Council Economic Institute

 

So to summarise the methodology: he took numbers from Valencia, which were self-serving propaganda designed to justify the spending to which City politicians had committed. He then multiplied them by 2.5, a number based on no clear rationale except SF should "do better". Those projected team 16 teams are now 4, which is noted but nobody has funded him to rewrite the slides.

 

SnakeOilGirl2.jpg

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Dr. Jon Haveman, Vice President, Chief Economist, Bay Area Council Economic Institute

 

So to summarise the methodology: he took numbers from Valencia, which were self-serving propaganda designed to justify the spending to which City politicians had committed. He then multiplied them by 2.5, a number based on no clear rationale except SF should "do better". Those projected team 16 teams are now 4, which is noted but nobody has funded him to rewrite the slides.

 

SnakeOilGirl2.jpg

 

Its the same formula that they used to calculate the ACWS spectator numbers for the Naples and Venice events.

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looks like acea / ggyc getting sued again ---

 

new record for defender --defendant appearances in court --

 

PRAYER FOR RELIEF

WHEREFORE, AVC prays for judgment as follows:

A. For a preliminary and permanent injunction restraining ACEA, its

agents, servants, employees, attorneys, successor and affiliates, and those in active

concert or participation with them from using any name or mark, that consists in

whole or in part of “Liveline,” or any name, mark or slogan confusingly similar to

that mark.

B. For an order from the Court requiring that ACEA and all those in

privity with it to turn over to AVC any materials in ACEA’s possession bearing the

term LiveLine, or an order that all such materials be destroyed, pursuant to 15

U.S.C. § 1118. This includes removing any videos available on the internet at

websites such as YouTube.com that promote the use of the term LiveLine in

connection with ACEA’s products.

C. For an award of $500,000.00 in damages.

D. For an award of treble the amount of all damages sustained by AVC

as a result of ACEA’s wrongful acts, including, but not limited to, an award

pursuant to 15 U.S.C. § 1117.

E. For an accounting of ACEA’s profits from its aforesaid wrongful acts,

including but limited to a statement of all profits already made as a result of its use

of LiveLine as a mark.

F. For an award of enhanced damages as allowed under California law.

G. For award of AVC’s reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs incurred

herein.

H. For an award of prejudgment interest on all amounts ACEA is ordered

by this Court to pay AVC according to law.

J. For such other and further relief as the Court deems just and proper.

 

 

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looks like acea / ggyc getting sued again ---

 

new record for defender --defendant appearances in court --

 

PRAYER FOR RELIEF

WHEREFORE, AVC prays for judgment as follows:

A. For a preliminary and permanent injunction restraining ACEA, its

agents, servants, employees, attorneys, successor and affiliates, and those in active

concert or participation with them from using any name or mark, that consists in

whole or in part of "Liveline," or any name, mark or slogan confusingly similar to

that mark.

B. For an order from the Court requiring that ACEA and all those in

privity with it to turn over to AVC any materials in ACEA's possession bearing the

term LiveLine, or an order that all such materials be destroyed, pursuant to 15

U.S.C. § 1118. This includes removing any videos available on the internet at

websites such as YouTube.com that promote the use of the term LiveLine in

connection with ACEA's products.

C. For an award of $500,000.00 in damages.

D. For an award of treble the amount of all damages sustained by AVC

as a result of ACEA's wrongful acts, including, but not limited to, an award

pursuant to 15 U.S.C. § 1117.

E. For an accounting of ACEA's profits from its aforesaid wrongful acts,

including but limited to a statement of all profits already made as a result of its use

of LiveLine as a mark.

F. For an award of enhanced damages as allowed under California law.

G. For award of AVC's reasonable attorneys' fees and costs incurred

herein.

H. For an award of prejudgment interest on all amounts ACEA is ordered

by this Court to pay AVC according to law.

J. For such other and further relief as the Court deems just and proper.

 

 

 

SA FRONT PAGE has very good article on the NEW litigation against acea= ggyc shell corp

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LiveLine

 

LiveLine™ is an affordable, flexible, easy-to-use surveillance system that allows you to monitor your home or business from anywhere in the world.

 

 

LiveLine is Affordable. The LiveLine service plans and options can be customized to fit any budget. You can monitor your home or business without spending thousands of dollars on equipment and service fees.

 

LiveLine is Easy. You can operate and view LiveLine with your existing Internet browser. There is no extra software to install.

 

LiveLine is Flexible. Your camera can also be placed anywhere in the world with an Internet connection. All your cameras can be viewed from a single account.

 

LiveLine is Secure. The entire LiveLine site and all video and recordings are protected by an encrypted SSL connection.

 

LiveLine offers the peace of mind you deserve at a price you can afford. Join LiveLine™ today.

 

 

 

livelinecamera.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.advancedv.../liveline.shtml

 

 

 

Advanced Video Communications, Inc., a California corporation ("AVC") owns and operates the interactive multimedia communications website, www.liveline.net ("LiveLine").

 

AVC Group

AVC Group, a leading global services company, has over the past 20 years developed and today delivers end-to-end solutions in Digital, Media, Renewable Energy, Recycling, @Home and Sustainable Living business sectors in over 2 million locations per annum.

 

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Hell, this video monitoring company ought to be paying ACEA for the fact that they are getting alot of global name recognition.

 

Seems to me it is a very different class of product. How exactly does liveline.net help to broadcast yacht races, or provide support for on the water judging?

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Hell, this video monitoring company (biggrin.gif) ought to be paying ACEA for the fact that they are getting alot of global name recognition.

 

Seems to me it is a very different class of product. How exactly does liveline.net help to broadcast yacht races, or provide support for on the water judging?

 

That was quick - case closed then!laugh.gif

 

If it was a Chinese Corp infringing trademark would you be so laissez-faire?

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Hell, this video monitoring company (biggrin.gif) ought to be paying ACEA for the fact that they are getting alot of global name recognition.

 

Seems to me it is a very different class of product. How exactly does liveline.net help to broadcast yacht races, or provide support for on the water judging?

 

That was quick - case closed then!laugh.gif

 

If it was a Chinese Corp infringing trademark would you be so laissez-faire?

 

People sue people every day of the week with well crafted legal documents. Doesn't mean it's going anywhere, and the plaintiff always sounds great initially. That's why the rule of law is innocent until proven guilty.

 

If anyone was quick to judge here, it was you.

 

Truth be told, the name Liveline sucks - it says nothing about sailing. It's a branding problem more than a legal problem. Might not be the worst thing in the world if ACEA is forced to change the name of Liveline.

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My ~guess~ is the name LiveLine was chosen so as to be generic enough that it could be used for other sporting events besides sailing. I believe ACEA, for their contribution to its development, has the long term rights for its use in all watersports; and SportVision (Stan H was its founder) on whose technology much of it is based, has the rights to its use for land based events.

 

No idea the case merits; not that big a deal to me either way.

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Hell, this video monitoring company ought to be paying ACEA for the fact that they are getting alot of global name recognition.

 

 

 

Nope, in the United States of Litigation, going to court is a favoured hobby.

Besides, they will settle on the courthouse steps.

 

Does anyone think the video monitoring coy. gives a dam?

 

Nope, just their lawyers who want their commission.

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Hell, this video monitoring company ought to be paying ACEA for the fact that they are getting alot of global name recognition.

 

 

 

Nope, in the United States of Litigation, going to court is a favoured hobby.

Besides, they will settle on the courthouse steps.

 

Does anyone think the video monitoring coy. gives a dam?

 

Nope, just their lawyers who want their commission.

 

I don't follow every single lawsuit Larry/Oracle Corp are in, but I'd be pretty certain settlement is not really in his vocabulary. Lawyers make alot of money off of shakedown suits against the Forbes 400 types. Just look at how much money lawyers made from Erne$to, while getting their ass kicked. I'm sure Big Bad Barely Legal laughed all the way to the bank.

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Big Bad Barely Legal laughed all the way to the bank.

 

Yea, those were the days.

 

I wonder he is making put.

 

Hopefully taking his blood pressure pills.

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same vid already posted over on the OR thread but wanted to add it here, great for a number of reasons....

 

Big week here in SF with the US Open golf championship at Olympic Club. Rory McElroy threw out the first pitch at the Giants Astros game last night,

 

and this vid includes a quick moment with Mike Krukow one of the Giants broadcast team over at Pier 80! love the trip from Port of Oakland across the Bay Bridge to SF (didn't we originally hear it had to go around thru San Jose and up the peninsula to SF because of length of trackto trailor?) anyway...

 

205367_395116450525407_1997689666_n.jpg

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Thanks for the link

 

What's the extra (black) bit at the base of this wing? New wing control system?

 

oracle_americas_cup_j_schell__2.jpgoracle_americas_cup_j_schell__224.jpg

 

Nice!

oracle_americas_cup_j_schell__38.jpg Tugboat is there oracle_americas_cup_j_schell__51_0.jpg

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Good eye, what the heck is that?

 

We may have glimpsed it before but without as good a camera angle.. didn't it get remarked on at the time?

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Hydraulic system?

 

Labelled as 'Coutts' (and being set on his platform), so should be a one design wing if they still want to race it.

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Could it be some kind of audio-vibratory physio-molecular transport device??

 

'Dr. Scot!'

 

5126293549_acf12e20ed.jpg

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--

MC Hammer will be participating in the America's Cup guest race tomorrow, with the U.S. Oracle team

http://m.nbcbayarea.com/nbcbayarea/pm_108022/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=gl2BnnNz

--

 

 

With the current level of prestige and class that AC 34 has attained I am not at all surprised that they have attracted the interest of one of the music worlds true heavyweights . Rarely does an event match the level of its public face so evenly. I think we all owe Mr. hammer a debt of gratitude to grace our humble endeavor with his presence :D It was wonderful for Mr. Hammer to step up as the previously booked Vanella Ice was called away to do a more lucrative bar mitzvah . Word is that SLAM is coming out with a entire new line of foul weather gear called " Chutes " based of course on his very practical and popular parachute pants .

 

mc-hammer-11.jpg

 

mc-hammer-04.jpg

 

The new AC34 theme song " You Can't Touch This "

 

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