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      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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This was the best bit

 

Oracle Team USA CEO Russell Coutts downplayed the 11th-hour maneuvering. "I've never seen a rules issue decide the outcome of a (Cup) race," he said, and he's been involved in Cup sailing since 1993.

"These guys love to sit around, argue about minutia," he said. "They're not doing it for safety reasons. They want to try to force us to spend a week rebuilding the rudders in the boat shed. That's the only reason they're doing it."

 

1993 being the year after Team New Zealand were effectively knocked of an America's Cup by a rules issue...

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Russell Coutts: "They're not doing it for safety reasons. " Oh the irony of it all B) !!

 

Russell Coutts:"They want to try to force us to spend a week rebuilding the rudders in the boat shed. That's the only reason they're doing it." This is a damning admission by Coutts that they have been using Class-Rules-illegal rudders. And the scary thing is he doesn't seem to see anything wrong with it...

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This was the best bit

 

Oracle Team USA CEO Russell Coutts downplayed the 11th-hour maneuvering. "I've never seen a rules issue decide the outcome of a (Cup) race," he said, and he's been involved in Cup sailing since 1993.

"These guys love to sit around, argue about minutia," he said. "They're not doing it for safety reasons. They want to try to force us to spend a week rebuilding the rudders in the boat shed. That's the only reason they're doing it."

 

the bastards are trying to make our boat fit in the box rule

 

bugger that, rules are only for little people!

 

he can't have it both ways

 

either it's "minutia" and not important enough to stop the racing

 

or it's absolutely essential to oracle that they be able to sail a boat that is illegal under the current rule

 

oracle have never done well with box rule boats

 

they've only got the cup by having lawyers better versed in NY law than alinghi

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U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

 

If you have problems to view this message click here.

 

Photo bank: photo.americascup.com

 

U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

San Francisco, 06/28/2013

 

 

 

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RA Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

The U.S. Coast Guard has issued the Americas Cup with the Marine Event Permit required to conduct Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay this summer.

 

This is an important and necessary step for the Americas Cup, said Iain Murray, independent Regatta Director for the Americas Cup.

 

Id like to thank the United States Coast Guard and all of the other organizations and agencies who have helped the Americas Cup get to this point where we are ready to conduct racing, starting with the fleet parade and time trials on July 5, and the first race of the Louis Vuitton Cup, Americas Cup Challenger Series, on July 7.

 

The Marine Event Permit (MEP) requires the implementation of a Safety Plan that incorporates the 37 Safety Recommendations made by the Regatta Director following the fatal capsize of Artemis Racing last month.

 

After receiving the MEP on Friday, Murray issued a Regatta Notice to the Competitors advising them that the MEP had been issued, and giving effect to the 37 Safety Recommendations, which now rank as rules for the Regatta, and allowing the Regatta to commence on schedule.

 

This Regatta Notice has not been made lightly, nor without due consideration of the impact on, and the possible consequences for, each Competitor and the organizer, Murray writes in a comment to close the Regatta Notice.

 

I have exercised my professional judgment to the best of my ability, and have weighed carefully the unfortunate circumstances thrust upon us including (as a paramount consideration) the need to increase the safety of our crews, the officials and other Bay users, as well as the investment made by Competitors and all other stakeholders in this event. Safety is not a multiple-choice selection from which Competitors pick and choose. I have issued this Regatta Notice as being in the best collective interests of the Americas Cup as a long-standing institution in and at the pinnacle of our sport.

 

On Thursday, Emirates Team New Zealand filed a protest with the International Jury over three of the 37 Safety Recommendations. The protest is expected to be heard in San Francisco on Monday, July 8, after racing in the Louis Vuitton Cup starts, as scheduled, on July 7.

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U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

 

If you have problems to view this message click here.

 

Photo bank: photo.americascup.com

 

U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

San Francisco, 06/28/2013

 

 

 

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RA Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

The U.S. Coast Guard has issued the Americas Cup with the Marine Event Permit required to conduct Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay this summer.

 

This is an important and necessary step for the Americas Cup, said Iain Murray, independent Regatta Director for the Americas Cup.

 

Id like to thank the United States Coast Guard and all of the other organizations and agencies who have helped the Americas Cup get to this point where we are ready to conduct racing, starting with the fleet parade and time trials on July 5, and the first race of the Louis Vuitton Cup, Americas Cup Challenger Series, on July 7.

 

The Marine Event Permit (MEP) requires the implementation of a Safety Plan that incorporates the 37 Safety Recommendations made by the Regatta Director following the fatal capsize of Artemis Racing last month.

 

After receiving the MEP on Friday, Murray issued a Regatta Notice to the Competitors advising them that the MEP had been issued, and giving effect to the 37 Safety Recommendations, which now rank as rules for the Regatta, and allowing the Regatta to commence on schedule.

 

This Regatta Notice has not been made lightly, nor without due consideration of the impact on, and the possible consequences for, each Competitor and the organizer, Murray writes in a comment to close the Regatta Notice.

 

I have exercised my professional judgment to the best of my ability, and have weighed carefully the unfortunate circumstances thrust upon us including (as a paramount consideration) the need to increase the safety of our crews, the officials and other Bay users, as well as the investment made by Competitors and all other stakeholders in this event. Safety is not a multiple-choice selection from which Competitors pick and choose. I have issued this Regatta Notice as being in the best collective interests of the Americas Cup as a long-standing institution in and at the pinnacle of our sport.

 

On Thursday, Emirates Team New Zealand filed a protest with the International Jury over three of the 37 Safety Recommendations. The protest is expected to be heard in San Francisco on Monday, July 8, after racing in the Louis Vuitton Cup starts, as scheduled, on July 7.

 

Ok now this starting to piss me off a little. Why the fuck did GGYC include the rudders in the safety recommendations????

 

The USCG even said they didnt want to get involved in the design of the boats and they dont give a rats fuck.

 

 

Everything is in jeopardy now.

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U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

 

If you have problems to view this message click here.

 

Photo bank: photo.americascup.com

 

U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

San Francisco, 06/28/2013

 

 

 

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RA Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

The U.S. Coast Guard has issued the Americas Cup with the Marine Event Permit required to conduct Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay this summer.

 

This is an important and necessary step for the Americas Cup, said Iain Murray, independent Regatta Director for the Americas Cup.

 

Id like to thank the United States Coast Guard and all of the other organizations and agencies who have helped the Americas Cup get to this point where we are ready to conduct racing, starting with the fleet parade and time trials on July 5, and the first race of the Louis Vuitton Cup, Americas Cup Challenger Series, on July 7.

 

The Marine Event Permit (MEP) requires the implementation of a Safety Plan that incorporates the 37 Safety Recommendations made by the Regatta Director following the fatal capsize of Artemis Racing last month.

 

After receiving the MEP on Friday, Murray issued a Regatta Notice to the Competitors advising them that the MEP had been issued, and giving effect to the 37 Safety Recommendations, which now rank as rules for the Regatta, and allowing the Regatta to commence on schedule.

 

This Regatta Notice has not been made lightly, nor without due consideration of the impact on, and the possible consequences for, each Competitor and the organizer, Murray writes in a comment to close the Regatta Notice.

 

I have exercised my professional judgment to the best of my ability, and have weighed carefully the unfortunate circumstances thrust upon us including (as a paramount consideration) the need to increase the safety of our crews, the officials and other Bay users, as well as the investment made by Competitors and all other stakeholders in this event. Safety is not a multiple-choice selection from which Competitors pick and choose. I have issued this Regatta Notice as being in the best collective interests of the Americas Cup as a long-standing institution in and at the pinnacle of our sport.

 

On Thursday, Emirates Team New Zealand filed a protest with the International Jury over three of the 37 Safety Recommendations. The protest is expected to be heard in San Francisco on Monday, July 8, after racing in the Louis Vuitton Cup starts, as scheduled, on July 7.

 

Nice scoop.

 

Given he has responsibility for the safety of the event, for all teams, not just one or two, I expect the IJ to back up his judgment.

 

Looks like grumpy has increased his issues to three, instead of one or two. Why not all 37 ? If you're going to be a prick go all the way.

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--

 

U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

 

If you have problems to view this message click here.

 

Photo bank: photo.americascup.com

 

U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

San Francisco, 06/28/2013

 

 

 

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RA Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

The U.S. Coast Guard has issued the Americas Cup with the Marine Event Permit required to conduct Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay this summer.

 

This is an important and necessary step for the Americas Cup, said Iain Murray, independent Regatta Director for the Americas Cup.

 

Id like to thank the United States Coast Guard and all of the other organizations and agencies who have helped the Americas Cup get to this point where we are ready to conduct racing, starting with the fleet parade and time trials on July 5, and the first race of the Louis Vuitton Cup, Americas Cup Challenger Series, on July 7.

 

The Marine Event Permit (MEP) requires the implementation of a Safety Plan that incorporates the 37 Safety Recommendations made by the Regatta Director following the fatal capsize of Artemis Racing last month.

 

After receiving the MEP on Friday, Murray issued a Regatta Notice to the Competitors advising them that the MEP had been issued, and giving effect to the 37 Safety Recommendations, which now rank as rules for the Regatta, and allowing the Regatta to commence on schedule.

 

This Regatta Notice has not been made lightly, nor without due consideration of the impact on, and the possible consequences for, each Competitor and the organizer, Murray writes in a comment to close the Regatta Notice.

 

I have exercised my professional judgment to the best of my ability, and have weighed carefully the unfortunate circumstances thrust upon us including (as a paramount consideration) the need to increase the safety of our crews, the officials and other Bay users, as well as the investment made by Competitors and all other stakeholders in this event. Safety is not a multiple-choice selection from which Competitors pick and choose. I have issued this Regatta Notice as being in the best collective interests of the Americas Cup as a long-standing institution in and at the pinnacle of our sport.

 

On Thursday, Emirates Team New Zealand filed a protest with the International Jury over three of the 37 Safety Recommendations. The protest is expected to be heard in San Francisco on Monday, July 8, after racing in the Louis Vuitton Cup starts, as scheduled, on July 7.

 

Ok now this starting to piss me off a little. Why the fuck did GGYC include the rudders in the safety recommendations????

 

The USCG even said they didnt want to get involved in the design of the boats and they dont give a rats fuck.

 

 

Everything is in jeopardy now.

 

The only thing in jeopardy is your attitude.

 

This is about safety, not politics. You and others may have missed this minor point.

 

Looks like the event will proceed as planned, unless lawsuits fly potentially eliminating those who choose to file.

 

Would take big balls to do that and risk total elimination from the event, but so be it.

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--

 

U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

 

If you have problems to view this message click here.

 

Photo bank: photo.americascup.com

 

U.S. Coast Guard issues permit for Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay

 

San Francisco, 06/28/2013

 

 

 

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RA Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

© © ACEA / PHOTO GILLES MARTIN-RAGET Download

 

The U.S. Coast Guard has issued the Americas Cup with the Marine Event Permit required to conduct Americas Cup racing on San Francisco Bay this summer.

 

This is an important and necessary step for the Americas Cup, said Iain Murray, independent Regatta Director for the Americas Cup.

 

Id like to thank the United States Coast Guard and all of the other organizations and agencies who have helped the Americas Cup get to this point where we are ready to conduct racing, starting with the fleet parade and time trials on July 5, and the first race of the Louis Vuitton Cup, Americas Cup Challenger Series, on July 7.

 

The Marine Event Permit (MEP) requires the implementation of a Safety Plan that incorporates the 37 Safety Recommendations made by the Regatta Director following the fatal capsize of Artemis Racing last month.

 

After receiving the MEP on Friday, Murray issued a Regatta Notice to the Competitors advising them that the MEP had been issued, and giving effect to the 37 Safety Recommendations, which now rank as rules for the Regatta, and allowing the Regatta to commence on schedule.

 

This Regatta Notice has not been made lightly, nor without due consideration of the impact on, and the possible consequences for, each Competitor and the organizer, Murray writes in a comment to close the Regatta Notice.

 

I have exercised my professional judgment to the best of my ability, and have weighed carefully the unfortunate circumstances thrust upon us including (as a paramount consideration) the need to increase the safety of our crews, the officials and other Bay users, as well as the investment made by Competitors and all other stakeholders in this event. Safety is not a multiple-choice selection from which Competitors pick and choose. I have issued this Regatta Notice as being in the best collective interests of the Americas Cup as a long-standing institution in and at the pinnacle of our sport.

 

On Thursday, Emirates Team New Zealand filed a protest with the International Jury over three of the 37 Safety Recommendations. The protest is expected to be heard in San Francisco on Monday, July 8, after racing in the Louis Vuitton Cup starts, as scheduled, on July 7.

 

Ok now this starting to piss me off a little. Why the fuck did GGYC include the rudders in the safety recommendations????

 

The USCG even said they didnt want to get involved in the design of the boats and they dont give a rats fuck.

 

 

Everything is in jeopardy now.

 

The only thing in jeopardy is your attitude.

 

This is about safety, not politics. You and others may have missed this minor point.

 

Looks like the event will proceed as planned, unless lawsuits fly potentially eliminating those who choose to file.

 

Would take big balls to do that and risk total elimination from the event, but so be it.

 

Sigh.

 

SW you're missing the point. The whole fucking thing could go up smoke over these rudder elevators.

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OK, the other another shoe drops.

 

Now that the USCG has embraced all 37 safety rules, including (what shall we call it?) Rule 37, it's unlike that they will reverse themselves on an issue that enhances safety, even if Dalton and the Italians win their IJ Protest.

 

So, where does that leave us?

 

A protest down the line against OR, if the Americans win racing in the 34th AC. Not likely but not much seems beyond the bounds of comprehension here.

 

Meanwhile, we know from RG that the USCG visited the bases of the Tractor Twins last week. Would be good to know what input the Coasties received.

 

One likely immediate outcome is that Dalts and Max will agree between themselves for to stick with their existing rudder setups for the sake of fairness between the two, but only until Artemis makes it's first appearance on the race course.

 

That would give them at least four weeks to develop, or continue developing, appropriate elevators and controls.

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Thursday Jun 27, 2013 1:40 AM PT

 

Team New Zealand to protest America's Cup changes

Tom FitzGerald

 

Team New Zealand CEO Grant Dalton said he will file for a jury verdict. A Luna Rossa spokesman, Francesco Longanesi-Cattani, said his team would file a protest, too.

 

"What's happening is just short of a scandal," Longanesi-Cattani said. The jury, however, won't arrive until Wednesday, just four days before the Louis VuittonCup challenger round-robin begins July 7.

 

According to Dalton, regatta director Iain Murray has overstepped his bounds in implementing rules changes as part of his 37 safety recommendations following the fatal capsize by Artemis Racing on May 9. "He's done a really good job, but he's gotten himself - welcome to America - in a liability scenario," Dalton said. "He's worried that he'll get into a liability scenario (in case of another accident) with his recommendations."

 

The key issue is the size of the elevators, the lateral pieces that attach to the rudders and help lift the boats out of the water. New Zealand and Luna Rossa prefer smaller elevators in accordance with existing Cup rules; Oracle and Murray prefer larger, heavier elevators that they say would help keep a boat from capsizing. "We think he's gone further than he needed to go," Dalton said.

 

Murray acknowledged he was concerned about liability but said his main concern was not to give an advantage to any one side.

 

You can read the rest here .. http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Team-New-Zealand-to-protest-America-s-Cup-changes-4624972.php

So just for the fun of it lets say they win the protest do we have any idea where they might be able to hold he event ?

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

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chron_we_promo.gif

 

brand.png

Thursday Jun 27, 2013 1:40 AM PT

 

Team New Zealand to protest America's Cup changes

Tom FitzGerald

 

Team New Zealand CEO Grant Dalton said he will file for a jury verdict. A Luna Rossa spokesman, Francesco Longanesi-Cattani, said his team would file a protest, too.

 

"What's happening is just short of a scandal," Longanesi-Cattani said. The jury, however, won't arrive until Wednesday, just four days before the Louis VuittonCup challenger round-robin begins July 7.

 

According to Dalton, regatta director Iain Murray has overstepped his bounds in implementing rules changes as part of his 37 safety recommendations following the fatal capsize by Artemis Racing on May 9. "He's done a really good job, but he's gotten himself - welcome to America - in a liability scenario," Dalton said. "He's worried that he'll get into a liability scenario (in case of another accident) with his recommendations."

 

The key issue is the size of the elevators, the lateral pieces that attach to the rudders and help lift the boats out of the water. New Zealand and Luna Rossa prefer smaller elevators in accordance with existing Cup rules; Oracle and Murray prefer larger, heavier elevators that they say would help keep a boat from capsizing. "We think he's gone further than he needed to go," Dalton said.

 

Murray acknowledged he was concerned about liability but said his main concern was not to give an advantage to any one side.

 

You can read the rest here .. http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Team-New-Zealand-to-protest-America-s-Cup-changes-4624972.php

So just for the fun of it lets say they win the protest do we have any idea where they might be able to hold he event ?

 

RAK ?

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chron_we_promo.gif

 

brand.png

Thursday Jun 27, 2013 1:40 AM PT

 

Team New Zealand to protest America's Cup changes

Tom FitzGerald

 

Team New Zealand CEO Grant Dalton said he will file for a jury verdict. A Luna Rossa spokesman, Francesco Longanesi-Cattani, said his team would file a protest, too.

 

"What's happening is just short of a scandal," Longanesi-Cattani said. The jury, however, won't arrive until Wednesday, just four days before the Louis VuittonCup challenger round-robin begins July 7.

 

According to Dalton, regatta director Iain Murray has overstepped his bounds in implementing rules changes as part of his 37 safety recommendations following the fatal capsize by Artemis Racing on May 9. "He's done a really good job, but he's gotten himself - welcome to America - in a liability scenario," Dalton said. "He's worried that he'll get into a liability scenario (in case of another accident) with his recommendations."

 

The key issue is the size of the elevators, the lateral pieces that attach to the rudders and help lift the boats out of the water. New Zealand and Luna Rossa prefer smaller elevators in accordance with existing Cup rules; Oracle and Murray prefer larger, heavier elevators that they say would help keep a boat from capsizing. "We think he's gone further than he needed to go," Dalton said.

 

Murray acknowledged he was concerned about liability but said his main concern was not to give an advantage to any one side.

 

You can read the rest here .. http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Team-New-Zealand-to-protest-America-s-Cup-changes-4624972.php

So just for the fun of it lets say they win the protest do we have any idea where they might be able to hold he event ?

 

RAK ?

 

 

OK, send the new laptop to.............. :lol:

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chron_we_promo.gif

 

brand.png

Thursday Jun 27, 2013 1:40 AM PT

 

Team New Zealand to protest America's Cup changes

Tom FitzGerald

 

Team New Zealand CEO Grant Dalton said he will file for a jury verdict. A Luna Rossa spokesman, Francesco Longanesi-Cattani, said his team would file a protest, too.

 

"What's happening is just short of a scandal," Longanesi-Cattani said. The jury, however, won't arrive until Wednesday, just four days before the Louis VuittonCup challenger round-robin begins July 7.

 

According to Dalton, regatta director Iain Murray has overstepped his bounds in implementing rules changes as part of his 37 safety recommendations following the fatal capsize by Artemis Racing on May 9. "He's done a really good job, but he's gotten himself - welcome to America - in a liability scenario," Dalton said. "He's worried that he'll get into a liability scenario (in case of another accident) with his recommendations."

 

The key issue is the size of the elevators, the lateral pieces that attach to the rudders and help lift the boats out of the water. New Zealand and Luna Rossa prefer smaller elevators in accordance with existing Cup rules; Oracle and Murray prefer larger, heavier elevators that they say would help keep a boat from capsizing. "We think he's gone further than he needed to go," Dalton said.

 

Murray acknowledged he was concerned about liability but said his main concern was not to give an advantage to any one side.

 

You can read the rest here .. http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Team-New-Zealand-to-protest-America-s-Cup-changes-4624972.php

So just for the fun of it lets say they win the protest do we have any idea where they might be able to hold he event ?

 

RAK ?

 

 

OK, send the new laptop to.............. :lol:

 

Nutter will have it in the mail shortly.

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

 

Then they should just retire as quitters or give it a go, their choice. They are the ones with sponsors to answer to that will be showing up. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion. "thank you for all your sponsorship dollars but we're pussies and don't think we can win, so we'll sit here and eat whetbix with thumbs up our ass". Maybe they'll elect to race instead, you think ?

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

 

Then they should just retire as quitters or give it a go, their choice. They are the ones with sponsors to answer to that will be showing up. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion. "thank you for all your sponsorship dollars but we're pussies and don't think we can win, so we'll sit here and eat whetbix with thumbs up our ass". Maybe they'll elect to race instead, you think ?

The IJ can still overule those 37 recommendations because the protocol states IM can not propose changes to the class rule without unanimous consent. The recommendations were made in essence to get the coast guard to just say "Yes" you can race next week. So the America's cup goes ahead as planned (schedule wise) The coast guard just needed to see that ACRM were going to attempt to ensure safety. By making these recommendations he has done that.

Now its up to the IJ to decide how to implement them. This Does not mean the Rudder winglets are legal. IMO they won't be made legal because there is not enough time for all teams to install, test, and ensure they are safe. If its about safety, all teams need that design, build, test and sail time with those rudders on their boats. Time has simply run out to make this rule change happen. They can't just say Oracle has them so you can too.

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

 

Then they should just retire as quitters or give it a go, their choice. They are the ones with sponsors to answer to that will be showing up. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion. "thank you for all your sponsorship dollars but we're pussies and don't think we can win, so we'll sit here and eat whetbix with thumbs up our ass". Maybe they'll elect to race instead, you think ?

The IJ can still overule those 37 recommendations because the protocol states IM can not propose changes to the class rule without unanimous consent. The recommendations were made in essence to get the coast guard to just say "Yes" you can race next week. So the America's cup goes ahead as planned (schedule wise) The coast guard just needed to see that ACRM were going to attempt to ensure safety. By making these recommendations he has done that.

Now its up to the IJ to decide how to implement them. This Does not mean the Rudder winglets are legal. IMO they won't be made legal because there is not enough time for all teams to install, test, and ensure they are safe. If its about safety, all teams need that design, build, test and sail time with those rudders on their boats. Time has simply run out to make this rule change happen. They can't just say Oracle has them so you can too.

IJ will kick it to the kerb - end of story.

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Nice scoop.

 

Given he has responsibility for the safety of the event, for all teams, not just one or two, I expect the IJ to back up his judgment.

 

Looks like grumpy has increased his issues to three, instead of one or two. Why not all 37 ? If you're going to be a prick go all the way.

Because only 3 of the 37 require amendments to the Class Rules which Murray has no authority to make, and which is the basis of ETNZ's protest - but that's clearly way above your IQ level. Just so you don't make a cunt of yourself again, here are the 3:

1.3. Rudder Elevators:
a: minimum total area 0.32 m2 per rudder;
b: minimum depth of elevators on rudder span of 2.1m;
c: maximum elevator span of 1.4m;
d: rudder elevators to be symmetrical in plan form and allowed to extend beyond maximum beam of the Yacht; and
e: elevators permitted to be adjusted until warning signal.
1.5. Maximum AC72 Yacht Sailing Weight: The maximum sailing weight specified in AC72 Class Rule 5.10 shall be increased by 100kg.
1.6. Soft Sails: Competitors limited to carrying two soft sails and eliminating the minimum weight in 26© of the AC72 Class Rule.
Now say thank you to the nice man :lol:

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

 

Then they should just retire as quitters or give it a go, their choice. They are the ones with sponsors to answer to that will be showing up. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion. "thank you for all your sponsorship dollars but we're pussies and don't think we can win, so we'll sit here and eat whetbix with thumbs up our ass". Maybe they'll elect to race instead, you think ?

 

Why ?

When they can have a perfectly competitive LVC between two very close, class legal yachts and then lodge a perfectly legitimite protest in any race they happen to be faced with a none class legal boat.

That is what almost any person should do when faced with an opponent breaking the rules in a sporting event, plenty of gold medals, tour de france's and probably even sailboat races have been won in a similar manner.

Besides worse case scenario the NYSC is a short trip across the country away and they have some pretty valid greivances with the way things have been handled.

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

 

Then they should just retire as quitters or give it a go, their choice. They are the ones with sponsors to answer to that will be showing up. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion. "thank you for all your sponsorship dollars but we're pussies and don't think we can win, so we'll sit here and eat whetbix with thumbs up our ass". Maybe they'll elect to race instead, you think ?

 

Wow, I'm looking forward to this exciting summer of racing, with a 2-boat defender testing series, 2 challengers quitting or excused due to a court action and the third challenger, well, dysfunctional or sailing AC45s.

 

Is this really what you want?

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

Then they should just retire as quitters or give it a go, their choice. They are the ones with sponsors to answer to that will be showing up. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion. "thank you for all your sponsorship dollars but we're pussies and don't think we can win, so we'll sit here and eat whetbix with thumbs up our ass". Maybe they'll elect to race instead, you think ?

Wow, I'm looking forward to this exciting summer of racing, with a 2-boat defender testing series, 2 challengers quitting or excused due to a court action and the third challenger, well, dysfunctional or sailing AC45s.

 

Is this really what you want?

I think that in their jaundiced little world it'll be seen as a glorious defence of the cup. Sadly.

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

larry did it to eb

 

to try and make him play by the rules

 

is it different now?

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

larry did it to eb

 

to try and make him play by the rules

 

is it different now?

 

 

Larry is American so for him it was ok. GD and EB are not so not ok ????????????

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

I am sure that Emirates would just love that.................

 

What if they feel that can't win under the new rules? at that point the money has pretty much been pissed away for them...

 

Then they should just retire as quitters or give it a go, their choice. They are the ones with sponsors to answer to that will be showing up. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion. "thank you for all your sponsorship dollars but we're pussies and don't think we can win, so we'll sit here and eat whetbix with thumbs up our ass". Maybe they'll elect to race instead, you think ?

 

Wow, I'm looking forward to this exciting summer of racing, with a 2-boat defender testing series, 2 challengers quitting or excused due to a court action and the third challenger, well, dysfunctional or sailing AC45s.

 

Is this really what you want?

 

In terms of the racing this summer I'd certainly like to see more challengers, and hopefully a close match come September, but what you or I want is not within our control. As I've said all along I'm not convinced commercializing the event is the best approach, and I'll reserve judgment till the match is over.

 

It is what it is at this point, and we can choose to accept it as is or find some other racing to entertain us.

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Wow, I'm looking forward to this exciting summer of racing, with a 2-boat defender testing series, 2 challengers quitting or excused due to a court action and the third challenger, well, dysfunctional or sailing AC45s.

 

Is this really what you want?

Me? No, but I'm still missing Napa Valley and the Redwood Forests - so, in an extra-ordinary act of friendship, I'm willing to take over your plane ticket and hotel reservation - at 20 cents on the Euro, of course :D

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Wow, I'm looking forward to this exciting summer of racing, with a 2-boat defender testing series, 2 challengers quitting or excused due to a court action and the third challenger, well, dysfunctional or sailing AC45s.

 

Is this really what you want?

Me? No, but I'm still missing Napa Valley and the Redwood Forests - so, in an extra-ordinary act of friendship, I'm willing to take over your plane ticket and hotel reservation - at 20 cents on the Euro, of course :D

 

Now that's downright generous of you.

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Wow, I'm looking forward to this exciting summer of racing, with a 2-boat defender testing series, 2 challengers quitting or excused due to a court action and the third challenger, well, dysfunctional or sailing AC45s.

 

Is this really what you want?

Me? No, but I'm still missing Napa Valley and the Redwood Forests - so, in an extra-ordinary act of friendship, I'm willing to take over your plane ticket and hotel reservation - at 20 cents on the Euro, of course :D

 

If there's one guy in the world I would accept this offer from, it would be you! But I have to disappoint you, the flights are not yet booked - and I'm glad about my hesitation - and the hotel room is refundable until one day before my scheduled arrival. I have learning from AC33, remember, VLC, RAK, Airlie Beach, RAK, VLC. I felt like a travel agency back then, having had rooms reserved all over the world.

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OK, the other another shoe drops.

 

Now that the USCG has embraced all 37 safety rules, including (what shall we call it?) Rule 37, it's unlike that they will reverse themselves on an issue that enhances safety, even if Dalton and the Italians win their IJ Protest.

 

Agreed. The liklihood of any reversal by the CG on a safety issue of that nature is vanishingly remote given that two bearaways have already led to wrecks, one that included a fatality.

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Out of interest, where would that leave us if the IJ overturn IM but the CG doesn't change the permit? A race notice that contradicts the class rule? Which would govern? My head is beginning to hurt thinking about this

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

larry did it to eb

 

to try and make him play by the rules

 

is it different now?

 

BMWO had to race with engine-powered hydraulics after they appealed to the court and the court allowed it. If LR and NZ have to swallow the option of sailing with adjustable rudder elevators, they'll get over it. Besides, if they are worried about the amount of time they have vs. Oracle to adopt the change, it is exactly the same for all teams, September 7th.

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

larry did it to eb

 

to try and make him play by the rules

 

is it different now?

 

BMWO had to race with engine-powered hydraulics after they appealed to the court and the court allowed it. If LR and NZ have to swallow the option of sailing with adjustable rudder elevators, they'll get over it. Besides, if they are worried about the amount of time they have vs. Oracle to adopt the change, it is exactly the same for all teams, September 7th.

 

And guess what the argument was that persuaded the judge to allow the engine on CZ... Safety!

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^ Yes Alinghi argued Safety among their many longshots but wrt engines it was intentionally hidden from being in SNG's then-new SI's, which were not given to GGYC despite the repeated requests for a copy.

 

Some old lady walking a DoG past the tent heard the engine being tested; shortly after EB had cut several grinders loose. Oops! :)

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OK, the other another shoe drops.

 

Now that the USCG has embraced all 37 safety rules, including (what shall we call it?) Rule 37, it's unlike that they will reverse themselves on an issue that enhances safety, even if Dalton and the Italians win their IJ Protest.

 

Agreed. The liklihood of any reversal by the CG on a safety issue of that nature is vanishingly remote given that two bearaways have already led to wrecks, one that included a fatality.

There is wording in the CG permit allowing the organisers to submit changes.

 

The CG have not specified rules that apply to the boats, they've simply accepted the recommendations put forward in the permit application by IM/SB/TE.

 

If the IJ rule that IM had no right to unilaterally decide on a class change then IM/SB/TE will need to go back to the CG asking for the 37 items attached to the permit be revised.

 

The CG then may either:

 

- Decline the change. Possibly this is unlikely as they previously made some noise about not being interested in boat design rules. If this did happen then SB/TE/IM will have fucked AC34 totally.

 

- Allow the amendment. Possibly this is likely as they've seen ETNZ/LR and know about their platform and how it seems safe enough in that configuration. ETNZ/LR will not need to make changes. OR will need to spend a week in the shed rebuilding class legal rudders and we go racing.

 

Just a complete story of incompetence by SB/iM - their credibility is greatly reduced by this farce. It will be totally destroyed if the IJ rules in favour of ETNZ.

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Out of interest, where would that leave us if the IJ overturn IM but the CG doesn't change the permit? A race notice that contradicts the class rule? Which would govern? My head is beginning to hurt thinking about this

I imagine GGYC's permit becomes invalid and they have to go back to the nice Mr Coast Guard and say "Please sir, we beg your forgiveness but we saw a golden opportunity to cheat but these fucking Kiwis caughts us out and we now cannot honour 3 of the 37 safety undertakings we gave you with our application. Can we please revise and modify from 37 to 34 the safety undertakings and revise our MEP accordingly?"

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GD and PB will piss away all the money spent just to spite LE and IM? And cause no AC to be held?

 

larry did it to eb

 

to try and make him play by the rules

 

is it different now?

 

BMWO had to race with engine-powered hydraulics after they appealed to the court and the court allowed it. If LR and NZ have to swallow the option of sailing with adjustable rudder elevators, they'll get over it. Besides, if they are worried about the amount of time they have vs. Oracle to adopt the change, it is exactly the same for all teams, September 7th.

 

There is a significant difference with the engine, that was a rule clarication of which this regatta has already had a number.

Because the DOG has such a poorly defined set of dimensions for the class under modern sailing conditions basically every single thing is subject to clarication, not so long ago it was thought impossible to use a multihull under DOG rules, engines are just another refinement (albiet a very ugly one) of the class rules.

The rudders changes now are an actual rule change effectively changing the entire class of boat being used, the equivalent in a DOG race would be if someone waltzed up and changed a couple of lines in the deed 10 days before racing starts.

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So if these rudder elevators are meant for safety, and ETNZ and Luna Rossa actually race each other, without them in the first race next week, effectively breaking the conditions of the CG permit, how does that work out? Is there one permit for July/ August, and another for September?

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IM and SB are playing with fire.

The CG would be fool to get involved in the design and the AC72 rules, but they will check if the event organizers deliver the promise.

 

And if they don't, ......................I guess they might stop the event

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I don't think the CG wants to be involved rules but as you say will just want to ensure that the event runs to what has been presented. Safety is the organisers problem - check the wording of the CG permit. So, if IJ rules that IM can't change class rules, then they need to submit changes to CG for consideration. Probably CG will allow those. If not, there is a problem for SB/IM...

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So if these rudder elevators are meant for safety, and ETNZ and Luna Rossa actually race each other, without them in the first race next week, effectively breaking the conditions of the CG permit, how does that work out? Is there one permit for July/ August, and another for September?

 

 

Exactly.

 

How the USCG is allowing themselves to be thrust into the middle of dictating safety for a sailboat race is beyond me.

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I just think its sad that IM and Oracle Racing have passed the buck from themselves and SB and placed the issue solely on the shoulders of the CG (Who have already stated they do not want to get involved in the design of the boats).

Also, being that the IJ was appointed to deal with these issues, why would they not base the jury in San Francisco, saving time and money by flying these people from around the world? or be able to video conference these people? As it is, the Jury doesn't arrive till Wednesday (i think) Wouldn't it be better to be able to convene the jury quickly? Just wondering

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I just think its sad that IM and Oracle Racing have passed the buck from themselves and SB and placed the issue solely on the shoulders of the CG (Who have already stated they do not want to get involved in the design of the boats).

Also, being that the IJ was appointed to deal with these issues, why would they not base the jury in San Francisco, saving time and money by flying these people from around the world? or be able to video conference these people? As it is, the Jury doesn't arrive till Wednesday (i think) Wouldn't it be better to be able to convene the jury quickly? Just wondering

 

Its funny you mention that, I was just thinking the same thing -

 

in the age of technology

 

if there is only a written complaint and evidence, then why do they wait a week to get the info?

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I just think its sad that IM and Oracle Racing have passed the buck from themselves and SB and placed the issue solely on the shoulders of the CG (Who have already stated they do not want to get involved in the design of the boats).

Also, being that the IJ was appointed to deal with these issues, why would they not base the jury in San Francisco, saving time and money by flying these people from around the world? or be able to video conference these people? As it is, the Jury doesn't arrive till Wednesday (i think) Wouldn't it be better to be able to convene the jury quickly? Just wondering

 

Yeah quite incredible that the possibility of last minute IJ decision requirements wasn't anticipated...

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Out of interest, where would that leave us if the IJ overturn IM but the CG doesn't change the permit? A race notice that contradicts the class rule? Which would govern? My head is beginning to hurt thinking about this

I imagine GGYC's permit becomes invalid and they have to go back to the nice Mr Coast Guard and say "Please sir, we beg your forgiveness but we saw a golden opportunity to cheat but these fucking Kiwis caughts us out and we now cannot honour 3 of the 37 safety undertakings we gave you with our application. Can we please revise and modify from 37 to 34 the safety undertakings and revise our MEP accordingly?"

 

Mate, you removed my comment that the Coast Guard is hardly likely to revoke a clause in the Permit that addresses safety. See below.

 

 

OK, the other another shoe drops.

 

Now that the USCG has embraced all 37 safety rules, including (what shall we call it?) Rule 37, it's unlike that they will reverse themselves on an issue that enhances safety, even if Dalton and the Italians win their IJ Protest.

 

Agreed. The liklihood of any reversal by the CG on a safety issue of that nature is vanishingly remote given that two bearaways have already led to wrecks, one that included a fatality.

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the CG Lieutenant responsible for the event, or the Port Captain or their boss the Rear Admiral commanding the 11th District. Future moves up the chain of command center on not stuffing up. Do you honestly think they'll back away from a published Event Permit and delete a safety requirement?

 

To add some context, the district commander has been in the job just under a year. Rear Admiral Schultz assumed his duties as Commander, Eleventh District in July of 2012. He most recently served at Coast Guard Headquarters in Washington DC, where he was the Director for Governmental and Public Affairs and was responsible for Coast Guard external engagement with the Congress,

the media and intergovernmental entities.

 

Does this guy sound like a risk taker?

 

Honestly, I doing know where this is going but I'm not getting any good vibes.

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So if these rudder elevators are meant for safety, and ETNZ and Luna Rossa actually race each other, without them in the first race next week, effectively breaking the conditions of the CG permit, how does that work out? Is there one permit for July/ August, and another for September?

 

 

Exactly.

 

How the USCG is allowing themselves to be thrust into the middle of dictating safety for a sailboat race is beyond me.

 

Obviously - they are not in the middle of anything.

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The risk averse bureaucrats with guns won't have to delete anything, they just have to include the latest update of the RD's 'Safety Recommendations, Nos. 1-34' in their files ;) Easy and little risk to career paths. Jesus what a country!

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The risk averse bureaucrats with guns won't have to delete anything, they just have to include the latest update of the RD's 'Safety Recommendations, Nos. 1-34' in their files ;) Easy and little risk to career paths. Jesus what a country!

 

Another ignorant political remark.

 

Do you really think the USCG is in a position to provide safety recommendations or advice with their extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

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It's ok - he can stay in Kia Ora's tent in the park under the protection of the US military should N Korea decide to attack the US during the AC.

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Out of interest, where would that leave us if the IJ overturn IM but the CG doesn't change the permit? A race notice that contradicts the class rule? Which would govern? My head is beginning to hurt thinking about this

I imagine GGYC's permit becomes invalid and they have to go back to the nice Mr Coast Guard and say "Please sir, we beg your forgiveness but we saw a golden opportunity to cheat but these fucking Kiwis caughts us out and we now cannot honour 3 of the 37 safety undertakings we gave you with our application. Can we please revise and modify from 37 to 34 the safety undertakings and revise our MEP accordingly?"

 

Mate, you removed my comment that the Coast Guard is hardly likely to revoke a clause in the Permit that addresses safety. See below.

 

>>

>

OK, the other another shoe drops.

 

Now that the USCG has embraced all 37 safety rules, including (what shall we call it?) Rule 37, it's unlike that they will reverse themselves on an issue that enhances safety, even if Dalton and the Italians win their IJ Protest.

 

Agreed. The liklihood of any reversal by the CG on a safety issue of that nature is vanishingly remote given that two bearaways have already led to wrecks, one that included a fatality.

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the CG Lieutenant responsible for the event, or the Port Captain or their boss the Rear Admiral commanding the 11th District. Future moves up the chain of command center on not stuffing up. Do you honestly think they'll back away from a published Event Permit and delete a safety requirement?

 

To add some context, the district commander has been in the job just under a year. Rear Admiral Schultz assumed his duties as Commander, Eleventh District in July of 2012. He most recently served at Coast Guard Headquarters in Washington DC, where he was the Director for Governmental and Public Affairs and was responsible for Coast Guard external engagement with the Congress,

the media and intergovernmental entities.

 

Does this guy sound like a risk taker?

 

Honestly, I doing know where this is going but I'm not getting any good vibes.

 

He's a no nonsense guy- heard him speak at change of command for the sector

Here he is in a PSA http://www.dvidshub.net/video/290434/rear-adm-karl-schultz-safe-boating-week-2013#.Uc93q6LkvSg

 

post-1447-0-69078600-1372551889_thumb.jpg

 

Change of command. Captn Stump is the one in the pic with LR last week

http://www.uscgnews.com/go/doc/4007/1740411/Sector-San-Francisco-Change-of-Command-

 

Alt_IMG_644312.JPG

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Great news ! AC 34 is cancelled due to a complete lack of reasonable consensus, everybody pack up your toys and go home. Can't happen soon enough for me.

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Great news ! AC 34 is cancelled due to a complete lack of reasonable consensus, everybody pack up your toys and go home. Can't happen soon enough for me.

Nah just pack it up and have the semi's in Auckland where we know how to run a decent sailboat race!

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Great news ! AC 34 is cancelled due to a complete lack of reasonable consensus, everybody pack up your toys and go home. Can't happen soon enough for me.

Nah just pack it up and have the semi's in Auckland where we know how to run a decent sailboat race!

JC isn't really very good is he ?

 

What would we do without you kiwis ?

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Great news ! AC 34 is cancelled due to a complete lack of reasonable consensus, everybody pack up your toys and go home. Can't happen soon enough for me.

Nah just pack it up and have the semi's in Auckland where we know how to run a decent sailboat race!

JC isn't really very good is he ?

 

What would we do without you kiwis ?

Or Australians. Fuck, if it wasn't for Australians or Kiwi's, OR may have to defend the AC in a C Class

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If it wasn't for us kiwis, you American's would still be gettin your ass kicked and not even makin the Louis Vuitton Cup final!

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Great news ! AC 34 is cancelled due to a complete lack of reasonable consensus, everybody pack up your toys and go home. Can't happen soon enough for me.

 

If ETNZ and Artemis go home, maybe it's not too late for you to enter - after all, you already have the right number of hulls, a 2 boat program and you're not afraid to sail the when the breeze picks up. You already spend more time in the course area than all of the challengers put together.

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The risk averse bureaucrats with guns won't have to delete anything, they just have to include the latest update of the RD's 'Safety Recommendations, Nos. 1-34' in their files ;) Easy and little risk to career paths. Jesus what a country!

Another ignorant political remark.

 

Do you really think the USCG is in a position to provide safety recommendations or advice with their extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

sws, can you post a link to IM's extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

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JJD

 

sws, can you post a link to IM's extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

 

 

 

He doesn't have to have any at all . but he needs to be able to have access to those that do and he obviously did.

 

After convening an expert review panel that interviewed more than two dozen sailors, designers, shore crew and engineers, Murray issued 37 Safety Recommendations

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If it wasn't for us kiwis, you American's would still be gettin your ass kicked and not even makin the Louis Vuitton Cup final!

America has missed making the challengers finals once in the cup history. Defend the Cup more then once and you can brag a-little.

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Great idea! We will continue with our two boat testing program immediately. Probably in about an hour.

 

Great news ! AC 34 is cancelled due to a complete lack of reasonable consensus, everybody pack up your toys and go home. Can't happen soon enough for me.

 

If ETNZ and Artemis go home, maybe it's not too late for you to enter - after all, you already have the right number of hulls, a 2 boat program and you're not afraid to sail the when the breeze picks up. You already spend more time in the course area than all of the challengers put together.

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The risk averse bureaucrats with guns won't have to delete anything, they just have to include the latest update of the RD's 'Safety Recommendations, Nos. 1-34' in their files ;) Easy and little risk to career paths. Jesus what a country!

Another ignorant political remark.

 

Do you really think the USCG is in a position to provide safety recommendations or advice with their extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

sws, can you post a link to IM's extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

 

Forget his experience - you missed the memo.

 

It's his honesty and integrity that has now come under fire.

 

Just a few weeks ago, as an appointed official agreed upon by all teams, he was well respected and highly regarded. Even by grumpy.

 

Now he's characterized by the kiwi fans as a lying scathing cheating bastard who only listens to OR.

 

How could this be ?

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The risk averse bureaucrats with guns won't have to delete anything, they just have to include the latest update of the RD's 'Safety Recommendations, Nos. 1-34' in their files ;) Easy and little risk to career paths. Jesus what a country!

Another ignorant political remark.

 

Do you really think the USCG is in a position to provide safety recommendations or advice with their extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

sws, can you post a link to IM's extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

 

Forget his experience - you missed the memo.

 

It's his honesty and integrity that has now come under fire.

 

Just a few weeks ago, as an appointed official agreed upon by all teams, he was well respected and highly regarded. Even by grumpy.

 

Now he's characterized by the kiwi fans as a lying scathing cheating bastard who only listens to OR.

 

How could this be ?

So hes got no experience in designing or sailing an AC72??? But by your own words for weeks these are his recommendations, no one elses.

Maxmini says hes got no design or sailing experience in AC72's but he spoke to a few people.

What a joke.

If IM is as honest and integrity filled as you say he is then i imagine he would be pretty glad this is gooing to the IJ to get him off the hook.

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The risk averse bureaucrats with guns won't have to delete anything, they just have to include the latest update of the RD's 'Safety Recommendations, Nos. 1-34' in their files ;) Easy and little risk to career paths. Jesus what a country!

Another ignorant political remark.

 

Do you really think the USCG is in a position to provide safety recommendations or advice with their extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

sws, can you post a link to IM's extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

 

Forget his experience - you missed the memo.

 

It's his honesty and integrity that has now come under fire.

 

Just a few weeks ago, as an appointed official agreed upon by all teams, he was well respected and highly regarded. Even by grumpy.

 

Now he's characterized by the kiwi fans as a lying scathing cheating bastard who only listens to OR.

 

How could this be ?

So hes got no experience in designing or sailing an AC72??? But by your own words for weeks these are his recommendations, no one elses.

Maxmini says hes got no design or sailing experience in AC72's but he spoke to a few people.

What a joke.

If IM is as honest and integrity filled as you say he is then i imagine he would be pretty glad this is gooing to the IJ to get him off the hook.

 

Never said he did, but thanks for stating the obvious.

 

Seems like he probably had unfettered access to representatives of all the design and sailing teams, and stakeholders, Shobe was also included in the expert review panel if you recall. Not exactly the same as "speaking to a few people" as though he dropped by a Starbucks for a casual chat and a Latte. Looks like a well defined process that took a fairly concerted effort to produce the list in such a short time.

 

He gathered inputs and then compiled the list of safety recommendations apart from any of the teams. Did he personally come up with all 37 recommendations ? Obviously not, but he signed off on them.

 

After convening an expert review panel that interviewed more than two dozen sailors, designers, shore crew and engineers, Murray issued 37 Safety Recommendations.

 

I guess you could say that's a few people, but > 24 is a little more accurate.

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Has anyone noticed that the July 5th fleet race has become a competitor's parade and time trial?

 

yes

 

cynics would say the lawyers advised that

 

to stop people saying

 

"but the racing starts in 1 week"

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Another ignorant political remark Nav.

 

Do you really think the USCG is in a position to provide safety recommendations or advice with their extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

sws, can you post a link to IM's extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

 

Forget his experience - you missed the memo.

 

It's his honesty and integrity that has now come under fire.

 

Just a few weeks ago, as an appointed official agreed upon by all teams, he was well respected and highly regarded. Even by grumpy.

 

Now he's characterized by the kiwi fans as a lying scathing cheating bastard who only listens to OR.

 

How could this be ?

So hes got no experience in designing or sailing an AC72??? But by your own words for weeks these are his recommendations, no one elses.

Maxmini says hes got no design or sailing experience in AC72's but he spoke to a few people.

What a joke.

If IM is as honest and integrity filled as you say he is then i imagine he would be pretty glad this is gooing to the IJ to get him off the hook.

 

Never said he did, but thanks for stating the obvious.

 

Seems like he probably had unfettered access to representatives of all the design and sailing teams, and stakeholders, Shobe was also included in the expert review panel if you recall. Not exactly the same as "speaking to a few people" as though he dropped by a Starbucks for a casual chat and a Latte. Looks like a well defined process that took a fairly concerted effort to produce the list in such a short time.

 

He gathered inputs and then compiled the list of safety recommendations apart from any of the teams. Did he personally come up with all 37 recommendations ? Obviously not, but he signed off on them.

 

After convening an expert review panel that interviewed more than two dozen sailors, designers, shore crew and engineers, Murray issued 37 Safety Recommendations.

 

I guess you could say that's a few people, but > 24 is a little more accurate.

 

Correction - it wasn't Shobe but Farmer that was represented on the Review Committee.

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Latest...

 

ACcourse0713_zpsfa47f7ec.jpeg

I'm cuious as to haw they can essentially own the "accreditied on water viewing area"?

If that area is safe to navigate during the event when did they buy it?

And, what happened to the tranit areas shown on recent versions of this graphic?

 

What are they going to do to local sailors who cross the imaginary line from public to "accreidited", gun them down?

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Still the question of why "V.I.P." vessels are allowed closer to the course therby blocking the views of the peons in the public viewing area. Additionally the "escorted commercial traffic" area most likely excludes privately owned pleasure craft. I'm guessing the escorting will only take place before and between races...

 

It's funny that the area from Anita rock to the beach and to the west (purple area) is also restricted. During the airshows the is a popular area to anchor out of the current with good holding in sand. It's not been restriced in the past that I can recall. Eal grass is the supposed reason for the restriction.

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^

Pretty typical of big events like this.

They need to maximise the money made in order to cover their costs and one way is to create a premium product that people want to pay for.

 

Like in any stadium, you pay more to be at the half way mark on the sidelines.

It sucks for the working schmucks like most of us, but generally I have no problem with it.

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The risk averse bureaucrats with guns won't have to delete anything, they just have to include the latest update of the RD's 'Safety Recommendations, Nos. 1-34' in their files ;) Easy and little risk to career paths. Jesus what a country!

Another ignorant political remark.

 

Do you really think the USCG is in a position to provide safety recommendations or advice with their extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

sws, can you post a link to IM's extensive design and sailing experience on AC72's ?

 

Forget his experience - you missed the memo.

 

It's his honesty and integrity that has now come under fire.

 

Just a few weeks ago, as an appointed official agreed upon by all teams, he was well respected and highly regarded. Even by grumpy.

 

Now he's characterized by the kiwi fans as a lying scathing cheating bastard who only listens to OR.

 

How could this be ?

So hes got no experience in designing or sailing an AC72??? But by your own words for weeks these are his recommendations, no one elses.

Maxmini says hes got no design or sailing experience in AC72's but he spoke to a few people.

What a joke.

If IM is as honest and integrity filled as you say he is then i imagine he would be pretty glad this is gooing to the IJ to get him off the hook.

 

The only joke is your reading comprehension.

 

After convening an expert review panel that interviewed more than two dozen sailors, designers, shore crew and engineers Murray issued 37 Safety Recommendations

 

And you equate that to " spoke to a few people " ?

 

Really ???

 

 

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Has a list I of expert review panel members been released? Who were they all?

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Latest...

 

ACcourse0713_zpsfa47f7ec.jpeg

I'm cuious as to haw they can essentially own the "accreditied on water viewing area"?

If that area is safe to navigate during the event when did they buy it?

And, what happened to the tranit areas shown on recent versions of this graphic?

 

What are they going to do to local sailors who cross the imaginary line from public to "accreidited", gun them down?

 

 

Nothing so crude :)

 

 

darkaggressor.jpg

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Has a list I of expert review panel members been released? Who were they all?

Iain Murry (chair) Russell Coutts, Jimmy Spithill, John Kostecki, Grant Simmer, and Tugboat Turner.

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Has a list I of expert review panel members been released? Who were they all?

 

I think... or at least google thinks...

 

  • Iain Murray (AUS, Chair)
  • Sally Lindsay Honey (USA, Deputy Chair)
  • John Craig (USA)
  • Chuck Hawley (USA)
  • Vincent Lauriot-Prévost (FRA)
  • Jim Farmer QC (NZL)

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Has a list I of expert review panel members been released? Who were they all?

Iain Murry (chair) Russell Coutts, Jimmy Spithill, John Kostecki, Grant Simmer, and Tugboat Turner.

 

 

You forgot the Oracakle janitor.

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