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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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redboat

FT 10 offshore?

28 posts in this topic

Are Transpac or Bermuda possibilities?

 

I've been skeptical and viewed the boat as a bay or inshore racer but also seen people in San Francisco, the Northwest and Australia give the boats some decent thrashings with little apparent harm done.

 

As with most boats there are areas for improvement but is the basic boat (particularly keel assembly) and rig capable of following in the footsteps of the Olsons, Hobie 33's, etc and dealing with the nasty bits offshore.?

 

Certainly won't be comfy but could also provide some grins in the right conditions.

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Mai Tai just went around Vancouver Island. This involved a couple days of rough heavy air upwind stuff on the West Coast "Graveyard of the Pacific". Seemed like they came through fine and did well against J109s and the like.

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It's the singer, not the song.

 

West wight potters have done California-to-Hawaii transists - and the very accomplished Skip Allen lost his Hawkfarm to severe heavy weather off the California coast on a delivery home from Kauai, - so in the end it's all a matter of conditions experienced (not expected).

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Archive a few of the conversations from the past on this subject. The consensus was that the Bermuda and Transpac might be pushing the envelope.

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Bermuda would be awful in my opinion...crossing the gulf would SUCK in any 30-35 ft sport boat type....

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Bermuda would be awful in my opinion...crossing the gulf would SUCK in any 30-35 ft sport boat type....

 

Reckon you won't be sailing to the Onion Patch in a Mini. FT10 is deeelux in comparison.

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Mai Tai just went around Vancouver Island. This involved a couple days of rough heavy air upwind stuff on the West Coast "Graveyard of the Pacific". Seemed like they came through fine and did well against J109s and the like.

 

To set the record straight and coming from someone who was out there with them -- Mai Tai is not a stock FT10 and has essentially been rebuilt (ie, strengthened) unlike most other FT10's in the area. At the same time while on the Winter Harbor to Uki leg of the VI360 they seriously thought they were done for and tried to stay close to the beach so it would be easier for the Coast Guard to pick them up. And this was when it really wasn't that windy (20-25 knots, maybe a little higher in the gusts), but just an uncomfortable sea state (12 ft swell, 8 second period, 4-5 ft wind waves).

 

Had things got a little rougher I seriously think Mai Tai would have had been in trouble, despite being excellent sailors...

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I'd like to hear more about why the Mai Tai guys were concerned. Fear of losing the rig, taking water, knocking down, or what? I'd assume that just shortening sail and hanging on would get the job done in those conditions.

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Mai Tai just went around Vancouver Island. This involved a couple days of rough heavy air upwind stuff on the West Coast "Graveyard of the Pacific". Seemed like they came through fine and did well against J109s and the like.

 

To set the record straight and coming from someone who was out there with them -- Mai Tai is not a stock FT10 and has essentially been rebuilt (ie, strengthened) unlike most other FT10's in the area. At the same time while on the Winter Harbor to Uki leg of the VI360 they seriously thought they were done for and tried to stay close to the beach so it would be easier for the Coast Guard to pick them up. And this was when it really wasn't that windy (20-25 knots, maybe a little higher in the gusts), but just an uncomfortable sea state (12 ft swell, 8 second period, 4-5 ft wind waves).

 

Had things got a little rougher I seriously think Mai Tai would have had been in trouble, despite being excellent sailors...

 

 

Well clearly I'm not as "salty " as you are Mistaken I have been out of sight of land before. I have not seen the Mai Tai since WIRW last year so I can't comment as to what rebuilding has gone on but do hope Daryl has added several hundred pounds to her. I do know they are great sailors and wonder how staying close to the beach would make it easier for the Coasties to save their asses. Fuck after hearing this tail of woe I would think twice before even untying the lines on my little egg shell. Great story though, so while the Mai Tai was short tacking the beach and the Mckees were bailing out the Death Starr there was little Grandma bouncing along on a 50' Cat making one of the best tasting Lemon Meringue pies you would ever have. While I'd question the quality of the pie it was indeed made so I guess it wasn't bad for everyone was it?

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I'd like to hear more about why the Mai Tai guys were concerned. Fear of losing the rig, taking water, knocking down, or what? I'd assume that just shortening sail and hanging on would get the job done in those conditions.

 

Like I said -- it really wasn't that windy, but the sea state made for a really rough and uncomfortable ride -- especially further down the track off Tofino at night. One boat lost their main, another their rudder due to a whale strike, another boat's septic tank blew up in the pounding (I don't need to go into details on this, but it wasn't good), Dark Star blew out a window & got diesel and salt water throughout their boat (including the fresh water tank), etc...

 

This scene was repeated to a lesser extent on many boats -- one called in an advisory to the CG that they were taking on water from somewhere and were having to bail to keep their boat afloat. Some time later they looked behind and the CCG Cutter Gorden Reid was hovering a few hundred yards behind which gave them the confidence to keep bailing & they finished the leg...

 

The bottom line is that for most boats in the pounding stuff started coming apart - crew included. Exactly what would give out would depend on the exact circumstances -- and remember that you are 20-40 miles out off Brooks which is a seriously bad ass place to be in a gale (Solandar Island is reported to be the windiest place in the eastern Pacific). Most boats & their crews needed a CG escort to thread the needle into Uki since they were so tired -- myself included...

 

I didn't speak with anyone after that leg who was bragging that their light weight boat made it -- most were very glad to be off the water and made personal vows not repeat this leg in anything other than a fully offshore capable boat...

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I'd like to hear more about why the Mai Tai guys were concerned. Fear of losing the rig, taking water, knocking down, or what? I'd assume that just shortening sail and hanging on would get the job done in those conditions.

 

Like I said -- it really wasn't that windy, but the sea state made for a really rough and uncomfortable ride -- especially further down the track off Tofino at night. One boat lost their main, another their rudder due to a whale strike, another boat's septic tank blew up in the pounding (I don't need to go into details on this, but it wasn't good), Dark Star blew out a window & got diesel and salt water throughout their boat (including the fresh water tank), etc...

 

This scene was repeated to a lesser extent on many boats -- one called in an advisory to the CG that they were taking on water from somewhere and were having to bail to keep their boat afloat. Some time later they looked behind and the CCG Cutter Gorden Reid was hovering a few hundred yards behind which gave them the confidence to keep bailing & they finished the leg...

 

The bottom line is that for most boats in the pounding stuff started coming apart - crew included. Exactly what would give out would depend on the exact circumstances -- and remember that you are 20-40 miles out off Brooks which is a seriously bad ass place to be in a gale (Solandar Island is reported to be the windiest place in the eastern Pacific). Most boats & their crews needed a CG escort to thread the needle into Uki since they were so tired -- myself included...

 

I didn't speak with anyone after that leg who was bragging that their light weight boat made it -- most were very glad to be off the water and made personal vows not repeat this leg in anything other than a fully offshore capable boat...

 

Sounds like everyone out there wan't to be somewhere else, not just the sportboats, excluding Icon and the other Perry design that won their division.

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2 Tigers did the Lauderdale to Key West race a couple of years ago, a race distance of 160 miles. The wind was on the nose all the way, gusting into 40's with seas reaching to 12' ( as broadcast by Marathon Key weather bouy ) while pounding against the gulf stream. There was no cause for concern about the integrity of the hull with all the pounding. Our speed averaged over 20 K for a 40 mile segment. The pulpit would constantly drive into a wave, the LED nav lights were glowing while under water. The fleet suffered a lot of carnage with many drop outs. I was impressed by how well the boat took the beating in the demanding conditions. Hull strength is not an issue with the TIger.

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Our speed averaged over 20 K for a 40 mile segment.
Wow, grew into a TP52 while under way did it? That is the biggest stretch of boat speed I've ever read..... AVERAGED over 20k for 2 hours, UPWIND
The wind was on the nose all the way

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Any further info on what mods Mai Tai has undergone?

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2 Tigers did the Lauderdale to Key West race a couple of years ago, a race distance of 160 miles. The wind was on the nose all the way, gusting into 40's with seas reaching to 12' ( as broadcast by Marathon Key weather bouy ) while pounding against the gulf stream. There was no cause for concern about the integrity of the hull with all the pounding. Our speed averaged over 20 K for a 40 mile segment. The pulpit would constantly drive into a wave, the LED nav lights were glowing while under water. The fleet suffered a lot of carnage with many drop outs. I was impressed by how well the boat took the beating in the demanding conditions. Hull strength is not an issue with the TIger.

 

Wasn't that the race where one of the tigers needed a new stick afterwards?

 

 

 

I am sure that the Tiger is fine for some coastal races (unless it turns ugly) but true offshore - NFW!

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2 Tigers did the Lauderdale to Key West race a couple of years ago, a race distance of 160 miles. The wind was on the nose all the way, gusting into 40's with seas reaching to 12' ( as broadcast by Marathon Key weather bouy ) while pounding against the gulf stream. There was no cause for concern about the integrity of the hull with all the pounding. Our speed averaged over 20 K for a 40 mile segment. The pulpit would constantly drive into a wave, the LED nav lights were glowing while under water. The fleet suffered a lot of carnage with many drop outs. I was impressed by how well the boat took the beating in the demanding conditions. Hull strength is not an issue with the TIger.

 

Wasn't that the race where one of the tigers needed a new stick afterwards?

 

 

 

I am sure that the Tiger is fine for some coastal races (unless it turns ugly) but true offshore - NFW!

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With the new rudder and some careful due diligence and minor re-rigging, I have no doubt that the boats could "hold up" offshore. However, the issue would be the weight of the sheer amount of other equipment that would need to be added and the change in the sailing characteristics of the yacht when over loaded. Battery power along would be pretty big issue. Probably best to limit our asiprations to under 500 miles.

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I did the Lauderdale/KW race that year on a tiger. The wind wasn't on the nose, it was a tight reach. Though the waves were big, fortunately we were not pounding. The wind was blowing across the stream versus against the stream. I'm a bit hazy on the details of that race due to the massive case of Poison Oak I was suffering with during the race.:lol: . My biggest concern with the Tiger is the hatches. They need to be reworked to really be up to the job going offshore. In my opinion the biggest issue taking these sportboats offshore is the crew. They are crew intensive boats. Compared to other boats, the crews are the first on the rail and the last off. The boats are wet inside and out. Crew management is critical if you truely want to race and not just sail to point B. I will be doing PH/Mac on a Tiger this year. The owner is preparing the boat quite well. If the wind is forecast for thirty knots on the nose I won;t be happy but would be willing to race. If the wind is forecast to blow for an extended period of time @ 40 knots, I would just as soon stay on shore. But that is just age kicking in. I'm sure in most cases the crew will be toast before the boat. The other Tiger that damaged their mast during the KW/Lauderdale was do to operator error instead of a boat issue. They were new to carbon sticks and hammered in wood chocks to support the mast going through the deck, instead of spartite or some other form of non point loaded support. They learned a lesson, put a carbon sleeve in the mast and were off to their next adventure.Do I want to cross a ocean on a Tiger? Probably not.......Well maybe a Trans Pac.

 

 

2 Tigers did the Lauderdale to Key West race a couple of years ago, a race distance of 160 miles. The wind was on the nose all the way, gusting into 40's with seas reaching to 12' ( as broadcast by Marathon Key weather bouy ) while pounding against the gulf stream. There was no cause for concern about the integrity of the hull with all the pounding. Our speed averaged over 20 K for a 40 mile segment. The pulpit would constantly drive into a wave, the LED nav lights were glowing while under water. The fleet suffered a lot of carnage with many drop outs. I was impressed by how well the boat took the beating in the demanding conditions. Hull strength is not an issue with the TIger.

 

Wasn't that the race where one of the tigers needed a new stick afterwards?

 

 

 

I am sure that the Tiger is fine for some coastal races (unless it turns ugly) but true offshore - NFW!

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2 Tigers did the Lauderdale to Key West race a couple of years ago, a race distance of 160 miles. The wind was on the nose all the way, gusting into 40's with seas reaching to 12' ( as broadcast by Marathon Key weather bouy ) while pounding against the gulf stream. There was no cause for concern about the integrity of the hull with all the pounding. Our speed averaged over 20 K for a 40 mile segment. The pulpit would constantly drive into a wave, the LED nav lights were glowing while under water. The fleet suffered a lot of carnage with many drop outs. I was impressed by how well the boat took the beating in the demanding conditions. Hull strength is not an issue with the TIger.

 

Wasn't that the race where one of the tigers needed a new stick afterwards?

 

 

 

I am sure that the Tiger is fine for some coastal races (unless it turns ugly) but true offshore - NFW!

Not a new stick, it was operator error. The mast chocked improperly at the partners damaging it. Was fixed and still sailing with it.

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I will do a Cabo on one and so would a few people i know that are kicking the idea around.

 

The obvious modification is the hatches. Usually a boat needs work done to be offshore proof and a sportboat will need more work. It is a matter of taking the precautions and not skimping on something to save money.

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Hawaii would be a perfect fit for the tiger. With the same accommodations as a 125 down stairs minus the crapper, the boat would love a two week reach/ down wind. Yes you are "camping" on the Pacific but you are always going fast. When conditions are right(20+ down wind) the tiger will pass a SC 52 as if it were a Cal 20( Been there done that). The best test would be a Cabo or PV due to the fact that if shit went down you can always turn "LEFT". The two man operation would fit the boat best due to the fact that 1.) extra weight necessary to comply with the equipment/ safety rules, 2) Less people would die if the boat decided to no longer stay in one piece.

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Fill length Around Catalina Island Race Video... going fast.. like 18-19

 

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2 Tigers did the Lauderdale to Key West race a couple of years ago, a race distance of 160 miles. The wind was on the nose all the way, gusting into 40's with seas reaching to 12' ( as broadcast by Marathon Key weather bouy ) while pounding against the gulf stream. There was no cause for concern about the integrity of the hull with all the pounding. Our speed averaged over 20 K for a 40 mile segment. The pulpit would constantly drive into a wave, the LED nav lights were glowing while under water. The fleet suffered a lot of carnage with many drop outs. I was impressed by how well the boat took the beating in the demanding conditions. Hull strength is not an issue with the TIger.

 

Wasn't that the race where one of the tigers needed a new stick afterwards?

 

 

 

I am sure that the Tiger is fine for some coastal races (unless it turns ugly) but true offshore - NFW!

Not a new stick, it was operator error. The mast chocked improperly at the partners damaging it. Was fixed and still sailing with it.

 

thats what he said

you guys were new to a carbon stick and chocked it improperly

 

however I must say how happy I've been with the tiger offshore here in sydney , admittedly we've had nothing really nasty on the nose,

but off the breeze, I've been shocked at how dry the deck is is in serious waves, and the stability is there if you want to go super hard and get the bow under

I'm a fan. It might take some time for someone to do something awesome on the ocean with one of these things but it will happen

 

Edit: with a few mods mind you

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I'd like add a few comments on the sea worthiness of the Tiger. I was the watch captain on My Tai for the Van Isle 360. The boat handled the conditions well on the leg from Winter Harbour to Uke, that being said it was not comfortable to say the least. We sailed with the #2 jib and a reef in the main thru the night and with that sail combination we were at the limit of the sail plan. We should have had a 2nd reef in the main,to give some more flexiblity , if the wind had built further we wuld have either lowered the main or changed to the storm jib.The boat was stiff and pounded very little it what could be described as an ugly chop on top of the SW swell. The skippers plan to tack toward the shore at night was based on the fact that we were one of the most westerly boats in the fleet and that if conditions deteriorated further, being near the beach would give some options for shelter. The boat at no time felt unsafe. The mod's that Daryl has done to My Tai consist of removing the kelp cutter, beefing up all the stantion bases, and mechanically fastening the hull/deck joint.

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I'd like add a few comments on the sea worthiness of the Tiger. I was the watch captain on My Tai for the Van Isle 360. The boat handled the conditions well on the leg from Winter Harbour to Uke, that being said it was not comfortable to say the least. We sailed with the #2 jib and a reef in the main thru the night and with that sail combination we were at the limit of the sail plan. We should have had a 2nd reef in the main,to give some more flexiblity , if the wind had built further we wuld have either lowered the main or changed to the storm jib.The boat was stiff and pounded very little it what could be described as an ugly chop on top of the SW swell. The skippers plan to tack toward the shore at night was based on the fact that we were one of the most westerly boats in the fleet and that if conditions deteriorated further, being near the beach would give some options for shelter. The boat at no time felt unsafe. The mod's that Daryl has done to My Tai consist of removing the kelp cutter, beefing up all the stantion bases, and mechanically fastening the hull/deck joint.

 

We use a Carbon GPL #4 on the Mile High Klub. Amazing sail. One thing I also forgot to mention that someone touched on was how dry it was for a sportboat..

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Thanks for the details woody. Even a 2nd reef would seem marginal for that coast, I'd go for 3 myself. Brooks Peninsula gets mean, probably as bad as Cape Scot. The shelf is closer to the shore and the bluff is freaking steep so you get a nasty washing machine going there in a SW especially. I got my ass kicked on a Mapleleaf 54 there a few years ago heading up to Alaska. Big ass square waves sweeping the foredeck, impressive. Nice to hear the Tiger handled it.

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I'd like add a few comments on the sea worthiness of the Tiger. I was the watch captain on My Tai for the Van Isle 360. The boat handled the conditions well on the leg from Winter Harbour to Uke, that being said it was not comfortable to say the least. We sailed with the #2 jib and a reef in the main thru the night and with that sail combination we were at the limit of the sail plan. We should have had a 2nd reef in the main,to give some more flexiblity , if the wind had built further we wuld have either lowered the main or changed to the storm jib.The boat was stiff and pounded very little it what could be described as an ugly chop on top of the SW swell. The skippers plan to tack toward the shore at night was based on the fact that we were one of the most westerly boats in the fleet and that if conditions deteriorated further, being near the beach would give some options for shelter. The boat at no time felt unsafe. The mod's that Daryl has done to My Tai consist of removing the kelp cutter, beefing up all the stantion bases, and mechanically fastening the hull/deck joint.

Thanks for the clarification on the boat mods - those seem pretty pedestrian. We've also beefed up the four primary stanchions (2x side) with bases and thicker tubes, added 2 reefs to our main plus a #4 (85%) jib and I'm pretty comfortable taking the boat in anything up to 35 on the nose/6' rollers. I guess the mechanical fastening of the joint is interesting - maybe needed as the boat ages? So far we have no gaps / no working of the joint.

 

#71

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