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EaglesPDX

AC34's "Liveline" race graphics

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Oysterhead,

 

Just to keep it on the short list I'm throwing onscreen VMG into the mix again.

 

I'm not sure you have any connection to the AC/YouTube onscreen controls but if so... please ask the powers-that-be to confirm that the controls work for small touchscreen users (smartphones).

 

As a tech geek, I really appreciate your posts and look forward to SD. Any chance of doing a behind-the-curtain tour for SAers during the ACWS in SD?

 

We're working on ways to display headed/lifted simultaneously with boat speed in vectors on the water...

the difficulty here is not having wind data off the boats (but we will on the 72's) so we are exploring options.

 

I'm not involved with the distribution side of things but I do know that there are more than a few folks working on

ways to bring some really cool apps to devices that people carry around. Open data streams bring interesting options!

 

If there is a SA event and we get enough stuff under control that it isn't a techno firedrill in SD, then yes, it would be great to

show things to the gang... I'm up for that.

 

Great, thanks. If any of the app developers you know need beta testers I'd be happy to volunteer.

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^^^ Stingray, do you really think any team, especially oracle, is going to give up wing trim information?

Hard to say, do you think AR will get a second AC 45 ?

 

Ah yes. I see, you now answer for Stingray. Very interesting.

 

I'll just parrot your line and say "let's give it all time, and see what happens with Artemis and another 45".

 

 

Having a bad day ?

 

Did you also see the confirmation that Artemis bought a second AC45 come in immediately after you shot your mouth off about why they didn't ?

 

Slinging insults is ok though, if it may makes you feel better about jamming your foot in your mouth.

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^^^ Stingray, do you really think any team, especially oracle, is going to give up wing trim information?

Hard to say, do you think AR will get a second AC 45 ?

 

Ah yes. I see, you now answer for Stingray. Very interesting.

 

I'll just parrot your line and say "let's give it all time, and see what happens with Artemis and another 45".

 

 

Having a bad day ?

 

Did you also see the confirmation that Artemis bought a second AC45 come in immediately after you shot your mouth off about why they didn't ?

 

Slinging insults is ok though, if it may makes you feel better about jamming your foot in your mouth.

 

Actually, having a very good day. Loving this baking heat.

 

Just don't really give a shit whether Artemis has 1, 2, or 10 boats, or if you think I shot my mouth off. And if Artemis has a Frankentri and a wing, that is pretty cool. Guess they have been focused on what really matters.

 

Basically, you are a worthless piece of internet digital dust, someone who sits on the fence and says "give it all time", while never having a real opinion and yet is critical of everyone but Stingray.

 

Now, with your team having a grand total of four AC 45's, what possible excuse can they have for not finishing 1-2 in every race?

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Geezus, and people take SWS to task for getting in-your-face?

 

We definitely need a hookup, in Daly's Bar :)

 

What kinda heat 'do ya got'?

 

Until we find out different? Yes, Artemis has leapfrogged everyone. Can't wait to see that wing, and that outboard hull too. That program likely costs, and pays, a lot more than a few 45s.

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Geezus, and people take SWS to task for getting in-your-face?

 

We definitely need a hookup, in Daly's Bar :)

 

What kinda heat 'do ya got'?

 

Until we find out different? Yes, Artemis has leapfrogged everyone. Can't wait to see that wing, and that outboard hull too. That program likely costs, and pays, a lot more than a few 45s.

 

Not quite sure what you mean by Daly's bar.

 

Heat? check the temp maps around the country and figure it out.

 

Artemis might have leapfrogged the rest of the challengers, but they have a long way to go to catch up to Oracle. The leapfrog will be in the fact they have actually built a wing, and no one other than Oracle has. Anyone who thinks building a wing for a C cat counts as much practice is kidding themselves.

 

Now back to liveline stuff.

 

But back on topic - and sorry for the thread drift everyone - never should have responded to that piece of digital dust.

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Daly's Bar is where we get to meet up, face to face, to fulfill TC's long time wish.

 

Heat refers to if you have anything to back your mostly outlandish, unsupportable opinions.

 

What evidence do you have for your claim that Artemis has leapfrogged the rest of the Challengers, but not OR? You think OR's building of a relatively crude, but gigantic, wing that had nothing to do with any AC72 rule, means it in any way scales to what Artemis has likely built to a specialty AC72 design? What evidence, exactly, please?

 

I would apologize too, for all that drift.

 

Okay, back to the good stuff, including all the digital fairy dust that helps make this the best race broadcasting that I have ever seen. By the obvious evidence :)

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Daly's Bar is where we get to meet up, face to face, to fulfill TC's long time wish.

 

Heat refers to if you have anything to back your mostly outlandish, unsupportable opinions.

 

What evidence do you have for your claim that Artemis has leapfrogged the rest of the Challengers, but not OR? You think OR's building of a relatively crude, but gigantic, wing that had nothing to do with any AC72 rule, means it in any way scales to what Artemis has likely built to a specialty AC72 design? What evidence, exactly, please?

 

I would apologize too, for all that drift.

 

Okay, back to the good stuff, including all the digital fairy dust that helps make this the best race broadcasting that I have ever seen. By the obvious evidence :)

 

 

Daly's Bar had nothing to do with tc ...this is the bar where swsailerboy told us many times that he was going to take a bunch of homeless guys for a drink because Daly was critical of the larry real estate fest in SF..of course he didn't do it and backpedaled on the deal...

 

You and the oracalites are the only ones around here who don't think that larry and his ac team haven't got a huge advantage on everyone else..they have been working on it now for over two years..Artemis and JK have found a loophole and hopefully can exploit it but for sure they are way behind team larry and the rest of the challengers are an age behind them...

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^^^ Stingray, do you really think any team, especially oracle, is going to give up wing trim information?

Hard to say, do you think AR will get a second AC 45 ?

 

Ah yes. I see, you now answer for Stingray. Very interesting.

 

I'll just parrot your line and say "let's give it all time, and see what happens with Artemis and another 45".

 

 

Having a bad day ?

 

Did you also see the confirmation that Artemis bought a second AC45 come in immediately after you shot your mouth off about why they didn't ?

 

Slinging insults is ok though, if it may makes you feel better about jamming your foot in your mouth.

 

Actually, having a very good day. Loving this baking heat.

 

Just don't really give a shit...

That's pretty apparent.

 

Why are you here then ?

 

 

 

 

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Basically, you are a worthless piece of internet digital dust, someone who sits on the fence and says "give it all time", while never having a real opinion and yet is critical of everyone but Stingray.

 

 

Good observation Sunseeker. However SWS is anything but a worthless piece of internet digital crust.

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I suspect many of you have already found this, but in case you haven't dug deep into the AC website,

the data from testing in Aukland, and races in Cascais and Plymouth are here:

http://www.americascup.com/en/Discover/Documents/Race-Data/

 

Also, the videos posted here:

http://noticeboard.americascup.com/umpire/umpire-booth-replays/

are very useful to watch, both for more information about umpiring and for examples of how the data

are presented to the umpires live, and teams after racing

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So give us a clue, OH. How can we best make use of all that data, where is the low hanging fruit?

 

I spent twenty minutes trying to build a database entity relationship diagram out of it but there were a couple of critical links missing, iirc, in the way the data is set up so far.

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So give us a clue, OH. How can we best make use of all that data, where is the low hanging fruit?

 

I spent twenty minutes trying to build a database entity relationship diagram out of it but there were a couple of critical links missing, iirc, in the way the data is set up so far.

 

@Stingray, I'm not sure an entity relationship diagram is going to help you here...the regatta/boat configuration data is in the xml files, but the meat is in CSV.

 

Oysterhead - It all well and good to see data archives of prior events, but what are then mechanisms for subscribing to near/real time feeds ? This is the data thats used by Virtual Eye right ? What are the capacity limitation of potentially thousands of devices pulling this data simultaneously ? Is there any infrastructure for testing integration with these feeds ? Is there am ACEA managed forum dedicated to supporting users of this data. The PDF in the archives is good and all that but...

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If the SA front page is to be believed, the ESS video crew are using "drones" to capture aerial shots...It this also an option for ACEA to reduce the costs of helicopter charter and associated noise ?

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Oysterhead - It all well and good to see data archives of prior events, but what are then mechanisms for subscribing to near/real time feeds ? This is the data thats used by Virtual Eye right ? What are the capacity limitation of potentially thousands of devices pulling this data simultaneously ? Is there any infrastructure for testing integration with these feeds ? Is there am ACEA managed forum dedicated to supporting users of this data. The PDF in the archives is good and all that but...

 

The data that are in the archives are the data that are used for VE, LL, and the umpiring system - live. The mechanism/process for transitioning from

archival to live streaming outside the core compound is a work in progress. As people develop the client apps (including the teams) using the

archived data, details are getting sorted on data formats that "work" for everyone. There have been many significant changes during and between

race events as issues surface and get resolved... development during production is exciting. I have initiated an internal conversation about

the process and timing of the transition to see where this is going - it is on the other side of the fence from my production role.

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If the SA front page is to be believed, the ESS video crew are using "drones" to capture aerial shots...It this also an option for ACEA to reduce the costs of helicopter charter and associated noise ?

 

Multirotor RC helicopters and fixed wing RC planes are really maturing as photo platforms. They do present interesting options

and the video of the kids opti race linked in the SA front page is really awesome. There are some significant issues, (legal,

logistic, and cost) associated with using these things in the US, especially in controlled airspaces... that keep us using real

helicopters with outstanding cameras.

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There are some significant issues, (legal,

logistic, and cost) associated with using these things in the US, especially in controlled airspaces

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Does the US military object to these nifty devices flying around?

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There are some significant issues, (legal,

logistic, and cost) associated with using these things in the US, especially in controlled airspaces

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Does the US military object to these nifty devices flying around?

 

There isn't any simple way for air traffic control to communicate with the operators of these vehicles - especially

since they can be programmed in advance to fly particular flight plans (using onboard GPS/gyros.) Having things

flying around near passenger aircraft, without the ability to maintain separation at all times, is a bit of a hazard.

 

The workaround is having a full time pilot on the local ATC radio channels for each vehicle...

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There are some significant issues, (legal,

logistic, and cost) associated with using these things in the US, especially in controlled airspaces

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Does the US military object to these nifty devices flying around?

 

There isn't any simple way for air traffic control to communicate with the operators of these vehicles - especially

since they can be programmed in advance to fly particular flight plans (using onboard GPS/gyros.) Having things

flying around near passenger aircraft, without the ability to maintain separation at all times, is a bit of a hazard.

 

The workaround is having a full time pilot on the local ATC radio channels for each vehicle...

 

If a bloke sitting inside a Colorado mountain can pilot a drone to deliver something nasty into the bedroom of a terrorist leader on the other side of the world it should be possible to control a remotely operated camera hovering over a boat race.

 

It is all quite fascinating.

 

And thanks for your response.

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There are some significant issues, (legal,

logistic, and cost) associated with using these things in the US, especially in controlled airspaces

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Does the US military object to these nifty devices flying around?

 

There isn't any simple way for air traffic control to communicate with the operators of these vehicles - especially

since they can be programmed in advance to fly particular flight plans (using onboard GPS/gyros.) Having things

flying around near passenger aircraft, without the ability to maintain separation at all times, is a bit of a hazard.

 

The workaround is having a full time pilot on the local ATC radio channels for each vehicle...

 

From what I've seen in Almería this thing never flew near a passenger aircraft, it flew near the boats. There was one guy controlling it, and he could have easily communicated with flight control if necessary. Same as each heli has a pilot communicating, each of the "drones" can have a controler communicating.

 

I just wonder what you guys are planning in SD, with passenger aircraft flying only feet away from the fleet. Wow! wink.gif

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^^ Great point @Rennmaus !

 

Talk about restricted airspace. This might be a problem specific to San Diego though given its proximity to the airport; in SF all you have to worry about is the pesky tourist/sightseeing flights as they keep real air traffic well ways from SF in terms of altitude that would cause a problem with the AC air traffic.

 

Are there also issues for Naples, Venice and Newport ?

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So give us a clue, OH. How can we best make use of all that data, where is the low hanging fruit?

 

I spent twenty minutes trying to build a database entity relationship diagram out of it but there were a couple of critical links missing, iirc, in the way the data is set up so far.

 

@Stingray, I'm not sure an entity relationship diagram is going to help you here...the regatta/boat configuration data is in the xml files, but the meat is in CSV.

On a phone right now but will try anyway.

 

The problems I ran into were not with the data formats, but with how to relate some of the datasets to each other so that you could know for example what race, boat, start time, mark positions, etc, the (for example) SOG readings pertained to.

 

Good Q on the live streaming of the data, and a nice response by OH too. Live would solve some of it, and a lot more, but the historical analysis is made difficult by some the absence of a few foreign key fields when I looked at it.

 

Would be fun to be able to answer who sailed the shortest distance on L2, or made the best time, in R2, etc. Seems like a statistical goldmine if one could import it into the right table structures.

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So give us a clue, OH. How can we best make use of all that data, where is the low hanging fruit?

 

I spent twenty minutes trying to build a database entity relationship diagram out of it but there were a couple of critical links missing, iirc, in the way the data is set up so far.

 

@Stingray, I'm not sure an entity relationship diagram is going to help you here...the regatta/boat configuration data is in the xml files, but the meat is in CSV.

On a phone right now but will try anyway.

 

The problems I ran into were not with the data formats, but with how to relate some of the datasets to each other so that you could know for example what race, boat, start time, mark positions, etc, the (for example) SOG readings pertained to.

 

Good Q on the live streaming of the data, and a nice response by OH too. Live would solve some of it, and a lot more, but the historical analysis is made difficult by some the absence of a few foreign key fields when I looked at it.

 

Would be fun to be able to answer who sailed the shortest distance on L2, or made the best time, in R2, etc. Seems like a statistical goldmine if one could import it into the right table structures.

 

@Stingray...read the PDF documentation...it's all in there...and with a bit of common sense, and a bunch of digging around you work it out. In the format it's in, a schema is not going to help you beyond the regatta/boat configuration. To get the answer you are looking for you are going to have to parse the data and possibly do some math. I can envision a feed format that would give you the data in an perhaps a more organized way that might help you find what you are looking for, but it probably wont just stand out a give you the answer directly.

 

I expect what we see today is an early evolution of the final product, and its great that we get to have an early peek at the goodies, and perhaps have the opportunity to make some suggestions.

 

Either way, you'll need some tooling to make real use of it.

 

A couple more questions out to oysterhead:

  1. Has any thought, that you know of, gone into syncing data feed replay/playback (or even Virtual Eye) to video replay, with pause, rewind etc. base of the timecode ? Not sure if the YT API has hooks for this ?
  2. I see the AC Uncovered on TV (Comcast) at 1080p, are there any plans for YT Live coverage to support this resolution ? From Plymouth I was only able to get 720p

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Folks have been asking about the availability of live streaming data during the World Series events. As mentioned, it is ACEA's intention to make live data freely available for applications and services that are in turn free to end users.

 

We have a live streaming data server running that we use internally, but it uses a terse binary format and can support only a limited number of connections. The ACEA IT folks are working to set up a slave server based on the LightStreamer tools. That slave server will connect to our binary internal server and make the same data available in a more friendly format for which external tools are available. That LightStreamer based server will be set up to support a large number of external connections.

 

http://www.lightstreamer.com

 

 

 

Our hope is have the LightStreamer based server running before the San Diego event, but the LiveLine group and the IT group have lots on and may not make it. When we have a draft format for the live data and have test data running via the LightStreamer server, I'll post that fact here.

 

 

 

We will be describing the approach to live data at a meeting setup byTechCentralSF on the evening of Nov 2nd. http://www.techcentralsf.com We may be able to demonstrate the LightStreamer server at that time. We will be able to demonstrate a test client connecting to our internal binary server if folks are curious, but the LightStreamer based server will be the better solution.

 

The logged data from each race will continue to be available at http://www.box.net/s...l0eyakk4n7n0594 after each race and on the America's Cup website after each regatta. That format will stay as it is except for bug fixes as needed.

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Posted · Hidden by ~Stingray~, October 20, 2011 - No reason given
Hidden by ~Stingray~, October 20, 2011 - No reason given

^ +10

 

I got lost in a good dream for 45 minutes after looking through the Lightsteamer API's. Then woke up to my abrupt reality - sure was fun while it lasted :)

 

You can see really good thongs ahead, from whoever is up to speed with that stuff - it looks like a lot of fun.

 

edit: yikes,maybe I'll focus on the iphone spellchecker app first! lol.

 

^ +10

 

I got lost in a good dream for 45 minutes after looking through the Lightstreamer API's. Then woke up to my abrupt reality - sure was fun while it lasted :)

 

You can see really good thongs ahead, from whoever is up to speed with that stuff - it looks like a lot of fun.

 

edit: yikes,maybe I'll focus on the iphone spellchecker app first! lol.

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And guess where the first hits to their logged data came from? rolleyes.gif

 

They are really hoping that the sailing geeks of the world pick up on this info and build AC-type apps around it. I's a pretty big deal that the ACEA is willing to give what are essentially proprietary datapoints away.

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^ Agreed, big time.

 

I looked through the Lightstreamer API's and fell into a deep dream for 45 minutes, all kinds of visions crossed my mind. Then I woke up to my abrupt reality and snapped out of it.

 

Decided I need a career change, this could easily be the inspiration!

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Good one, at SailBlast

--

 

 

Sunday, October 23, 2011

 

OBSERVATIONS FROM THE GUYS CHANGING THE 34th AMERICA'S CUP

 

Stan Honey, Director of Technology for the 34th America's Cup (AC34) and John Craig, Principal Race Officer (PRO) for AC34 talked to members of the San Francisco Yacht Club last week, reviewing the World Series events in Cascais and Plymouth and explaining the technology they're using in their jobs - technology which is changing the way that races are being run and facilitating better than ever accuracy in umpiring, and for the viewer of the sport, making races easier and more interesting to watch across different platforms.

 

Craig also talked about the logistics of course building under the new regime and gave an overview of the different boats used in race management, from jet skis to rad camera boats.

 

contd

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There is more information now posted on the sharing site below regarding the live data servers. We are working on two.

 

One, ACRS, is running now for test purposes and will be running for the San Diego event. The ACRS server is a derivative of the data server that we use internally, but we now have set up a slave server that will be available for external access. Information on that server is posted at the site below, along with a test client for demonstration and test. The server is running historical data now. http://www.box.net/s...6hrbx3regb4y247

 

There is a second server that will be based on theLightStreamer tools, that we hope to have running for San Diego in addition to ACRS. The LightStreamer based server will be easier to use. For information on the LightStreamer tools and API see www.lightstreamer.com We will describe the overall live data approach at the 2 November, meeting in San Francisco hosted by Tech Central SF, but all technical information will also be posted.

 

As before, the sharing site for the logged race data is: http://www.box.net/s...l0eyakk4n7n0594 We will continue to post logs of each day's sailing in the same location and format as before.

 

We hope to move our technology related file sharing site to the www.americascup.com website shortly. When we do I'll post the direct URL.

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Sorry about the bad links:

 

Info on streaming servers:

http://www.box.net/s...6hrbx3regb4y247

 

Site for logged race data:

http://www.box.net/s...l0eyakk4n7n0594

 

So here is a chance for a doctoral student to build a Ph.D. dissertation out of a publicly-accessible data base.

On how 45' cats - when racing - sail in different kinds of wind, tide and sea conditions.

 

Imagine all the multivariate possibilities.

 

I wonder if syndicate stats boffins will now mine this for useful insights.

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Sorry about the bad links:

 

Info on streaming servers:

http://www.box.net/s...6hrbx3regb4y247

 

Site for logged race data:

http://www.box.net/s...l0eyakk4n7n0594

 

So here is a chance for a doctoral student to build a Ph.D. dissertation out of a publicly-accessible data base.

On how 45' cats - when racing - sail in different kinds of wind, tide and sea conditions.

 

Imagine all the multivariate possibilities.

 

I wonder if syndicate stats boffins will now mine this for useful insights.

I figure one app of interest could take all the data for each boat for each race and build polars off the data and compare the polars between days, races and across events so see if there is any improvement...it'll be best efforts though as there probably won't be enough samples for a given wind speed to point of sail to boat speed get a complete set of polars each time with out noise skewing the results.

 

Anyone got any other useful examples/ideas of uses for the static data snapshots as well as the real time feeds ? there seems little point on competing with Virtual Eye.

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Sorry about the bad links:

 

Info on streaming servers:

http://www.box.net/s...6hrbx3regb4y247

 

Site for logged race data:

http://www.box.net/s...l0eyakk4n7n0594

 

So here is a chance for a doctoral student to build a Ph.D. dissertation out of a publicly-accessible data base.

On how 45' cats - when racing - sail in different kinds of wind, tide and sea conditions.

 

Imagine all the multivariate possibilities.

 

I wonder if syndicate stats boffins will now mine this for useful insights.

I figure one app of interest could take all the data for each boat for each race and build polars off the data and compare the polars between days, races and across events so see if there is any improvement...it'll be best efforts though as there probably won't be enough samples for a given wind speed to point of sail to boat speed get a complete set of polars each time with out noise skewing the results.

 

Anyone got any other useful examples/ideas of uses for the static data snapshots as well as the real time feeds ? there seems little point on competing with Virtual Eye.

 

 

The data is there!

 

Now find a question (to be answered by data anaysis).

Inductive or "grounded" theory.

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If you could incorporate the data into something like SailX or Virtual Skipper you could potentially race against the Pros in realtime.

Maybe the AC guys can get UBISoft to make a new version of VSK, the AC32 version is still very popular.

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Yes; what apps do they envision, and can we please have the source code to that AcView.exe?

 

There were I'd say between 60-100 people at the event. It was a panel format with:

 

ACEA Head of Marketing

Pete Martin (?) - ACEA Marketing ?

Stan Honey - AC Race Management - Director of Technology

John Craig - PRO - Race Management

Jay Nath - Dir Innovation - City and County of Innovation - Responsible for SF live data streaming (parking availability etc.)

 

Andrew Ferguson - Director of IT Services was also there from the UK, and other unannounced ACEA people.

 

They ran though a presentation, each talking about there aspects, with the majority covered by Craig and Stan.

 

They want people to develop apps, but have no real plan as yet to organize this activity; but have at least now got the Lightstream feed into production (playing Plymouth race in a loop). They said the Lightstream format is available but I've only managed to find the docs for what I believe is the binary format, and not specific to how the data is to be set up in the Lightstream API...

 

There was a 30 min Q&A at the end, some of them captured below...

 

Q: Source code for AcView demo app.

A: Yes they will make it available (but need to "fix" some code in it first) This demo app apparently uses the binary feed not the lightstreem feed though. Perhaps they will write a Lightstream one - As a piece of developer community support, where a demo using each client SDK might be a great jumpstart :-)

 

Q: Where is a HTML/Web Demo they showed ?

A: I could not find it, perhaps they will see this a and post the location. It was on the AC 34 website somewhere.

 

Q: Will there be a developer forum/community ?

A: Yes....

 

Q: Will there ever be Wing Angle data ?

A: It's not in the plan but there has been discussion around it

 

Q: Will there be access to copyright markings and Logos for use in Apps

A: For non free "licensed" apps, there will be permission granted to use Logo's etc. It was asked if there was going to be a "Data Provided by ACEA - AC43" brand that everyone could use to give credibility to their app for use of the data feed. This had not been thought through; but they seemed to take it under advisement.

 

Q: Free? Commercial use ?

A: If you build a free app you can use the data for free, if you charge you'll need a "license". Questions were asked how they would police this. And if there would be an "App Store" to register and promote apps. This was also taken under advisement.

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^ Thanks for the good report.

 

Q: Source code for AcView demo app.

A: Yes they will make it available (but need to "fix" some code in it first) This demo app apparently uses the binary feed not the lightstreem feed though. Perhaps they will write a Lightstream one - As a piece of developer community support, where a demo using each client SDK might be a great jumpstart :-)

Definitely!

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Apologies if this is already covered, but what is the system's availability for the teams' AC72 private testing? I'm thinking not so much about graphics, but of the 2cm-resolution instrumentation: is there a simplified version that does not require expensive helos, and what's the range from base stations?

 

Also, ACalphabet's supposed to provide for 72s data sensors and transmitters much more extensive than what we've seen until now: will this be available by next June and will teams be allowed to use it?

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Apologies if this is already covered, but what is the system's availability for the teams' AC72 private testing? I'm thinking not so much about graphics, but of the 2cm-resolution instrumentation: is there a simplified version that does not require expensive helos, and what's the range from base stations?

 

Also, ACalphabet's supposed to provide for 72s data sensors and transmitters much more extensive than what we've seen until now: will this be available by next June and will teams be allowed to use it?

 

Since all the positioning gear (onboard, ashore and aloft) belongs to ACXX and they have their own crew of guys to put it in and out of the boats daily and strip it and recharge it etc each night, and the fact that testing will be carried out on at least three continents - I would say no, the teams will have to sort themselves out.

 

*However, if the sensors are more integrated in the 72s than they are in the 45s maybe they at least could be utilised as part of the in-house system???

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^^

 

Thanks. Innocent question then: will OR be able to use it? After all, it's got to be tested/debugged somewhere ..

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^^

 

Thanks. Innocent question then: will OR be able to use it? After all, it's got to be tested/debugged somewhere ..

 

From what I've seen some of the people involved are OR people contracted to ACEA...They have to test it somehow, a defender privilege perhaps...

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with the 72's, as the team will want their own instrumentation on the boat for their own use and testing, and perhaps the ACXX boxes will need to plug into that so as not to duplicate functionality or instruments...

 

In F1 all the cars run the same management systems and communications equipment so they can isolate frequencies etc. Is this a similar plan for the on board electronics ? All shore support then need in a microwave receiver on shore and a box to decode the data where ever they are training/developing the boat.

 

The public/open data stream are probably only going to cover the real event data and nothing from other activity.

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As a tech geek, I really appreciate your posts and look forward to SD. Any chance of doing a behind-the-curtain tour for SAers during the ACWS in SD?

 

 

If there is a SA event and we get enough stuff under control that it isn't a techno firedrill in SD, then yes, it would be great to

show things to the gang... I'm up for that.

 

 

Oysterhead,

 

I bet you're real busy right now but how's it looking for a tour? Maybe on one of the laydays (Monday or Tuesday) would work? Anyone else up for coming if OH gets it together?

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I bet you're real busy right now but how's it looking for a tour? Maybe on one of the laydays (Monday or Tuesday) would work? Anyone else up for coming if OH gets it together?

 

Yup, busy is one way to say it. We are thinking about inviting a few SAers on Tuesday at lunchtime.

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I bet you're real busy right now but how's it looking for a tour? Maybe on one of the laydays (Monday or Tuesday) would work? Anyone else up for coming if OH gets it together?

 

Yup, busy is one way to say it. We are thinking about inviting a few SAers on Tuesday at lunchtime.

 

I'm not making it into town till Thursday at this point...if it happened today I hope you had a good time ?!?

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Wow

First time with the new graphics for me yesterday. I love the grey course boundries and the countdown timer for the start. The boat tracks are an interesting visual also but I think I've seen that before. I still think boat seperation should be expressed in boat lengths instead of meters.

Nice job

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Interesting to see that some seasonal mist had the helicopters on the ground for a while today...

 

SF in the summer is a often a "Fog Fest", with a regular band of dense fog comming in from the Gate and often reaching Berkeley. Worse sometimes the Bay is entirely fogged out down to a low level. I get's worse as the afternoon progreses!

 

With that in mind what alternatives are there to getting the system working without helicopters? Putting cameras similar to what they use for "Football" to get the 10yd line to work at strategic high vantage points, perhaps either side of the Gate, on Alcatraz, and on top of Angel Island or other similar location ?

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Turns out it was the Navy's radar that was screwing up the television signal from the helicopter! Stan said it was messing with all the video but that it was so bad for the live line shot that they couldn't use it. This high tech stuff is hard.

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Turns out it was the Navy's radar that was screwing up the television signal from the helicopter! Stan said it was messing with all the video but that it was so bad for the live line shot that they couldn't use it. This high tech stuff is hard.

 

That's the same way smart bombs fall on civil houses.

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I bet you're real busy right now but how's it looking for a tour? Maybe on one of the laydays (Monday or Tuesday) would work? Anyone else up for coming if OH gets it together?

 

Yup, busy is one way to say it. We are thinking about inviting a few SAers on Tuesday at lunchtime.

 

A fun video walkthrough with Surf City would be pretty sweet.

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Turns out it was the Navy's radar that was screwing up the television signal from the helicopter! Stan said it was messing with all the video but that it was so bad for the live line shot that they couldn't use it. This high tech stuff is hard.

 

That's the same way smart bombs fall on civil houses.

 

More likely grunts using the wrong GPS reference frame. Apparently most US army bases in Gulf War 1 were about 3 klicks away from the co-ordinates they quoted ... using north American datum rather than WGS84.

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I bet you're real busy right now but how's it looking for a tour? Maybe on one of the laydays (Monday or Tuesday) would work? Anyone else up for coming if OH gets it together?

 

Yup, busy is one way to say it. We are thinking about inviting a few SAers on Tuesday at lunchtime.

 

A fun video walkthrough with Surf City would be pretty sweet.

 

I had a walk through yesterday. Stan, Oysterhead, and the whole crew are totally stoked about what they're doing and how to make it better. Like making all their data available free in real time so geeks can write apps for viewing the races in different ways. Think of Google Sky Map but instead of looking at the stars you point your phone at the race course and it shows the boats it's pointed at with their vital stats (speed, heading, distance from leader, etc) displayed graphically like in Live Line. When you pan your phone the display changes to show the boats in your field of view. This morning's press briefing was about the Live Line system and how it evolved into a tool for the umpires and the PRO. Surf City was there recording so maybe he'll post it.

 

I have to compliment the Media Center crew... they do everything they can to get you access to photo and interview opportunities. Yesterday I spent the day in Club 45 on the flight deck of the Midway. I also spent two days on photo boats. The driver I had was a sailor, photographer, and a race official so he was very good at getting the boat in the right place to get the best shots.

 

Here's a couple shots... I'd post more but it's too late at night to figure out how to upload multiple files.

post-17709-074589600 1321607683_thumb.jpg

post-17709-024200800 1321607720_thumb.jpg

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The port/Starboard entry lines were nice, although a bit dark so hard to spot at times (longer shot).

 

I noted that the flags were flying in the wrong direction ;-) Would be nice to see the speeds a bit more. You seem to have dropped showing the distance to the boundary, which was confusing before as it could have been distance behind leader.

 

When a lead change happens, it's a bit confusing - numbers count down, screen goes blank, then you get new leader. Maybe you could show the two boat names alongside one another with the second boat a bit down and rising up?

 

Seemed to be a lot more on board footage. Sometimes that was truly excellent - seeing the crosses, looking up at the Artemis jib wrap, top work. Would be nice to use split screen/screen in screen to see the overall race position whilst following something like the drama of Artemis snafu.

 

Rounding shots from mark boats are great too.

 

It would be a bit confusing to the uninitiated with the commentators using higher/lower at the starts when the screen is the other way around

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Wind? With all the technology and cool graphics we still have the commentators guessing the wind speeds and if there was a shift or not. Be nice to see real time wind speed and direction from all the mark boats and or boats on the boundaries.

 

Love the coverage so far.

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At one point during the recent event I recall seeing angle of heel posted on the boats for a brief period of time.

 

Might be interesting to see this during the speed trials and during close boat on boat racing as an indication of the helmsman/wing trimmers ability to coordinate efforts and any subsequent results in boat performance.

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What SW said above +

If you're going to show a heel angle then somebody should explain what the target angle is and why.

Love what you're doing.

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The LL feed is fantastic, thanks guys!

 

I kept thinking I'd like to see more wind information - where is the pressure, where are the shifts - but then realized that without sensors everywhere this would be kind of hard. Maybe some of that laser backscatter technology. But it looks like you have your hands full and more data probably isn't what's needed.

 

On a practical note, it would be great if the light status (green, red, blue, yellow, yellow flash rate) could be repeated on LL - especially in fleet racing when the commentary focuses on one story while so many others happening. I suppose this is available in the free data stream so I could write my own app, but with one screen showing commentary and the other with LL I'd need another computer in the bedroom.

 

Hope you can keep it up - this is the most amazing technology live integration story I've seen in a long time.

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Thanks for the feedback everyone. We've got a few months now to figure out how things

mature from working prototype to production system. Many changes will probably be invisible

(internal architecture) and the rest can be refinements. We have much bigger dreams but

getting to them will require significant investment / change of priorities on an event scale.

 

Please keep your feedback coming. We do appreciate it!

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Oysterhead,

 

I'm not sure you are back at work or even monitoring SA but if you are:

 

I'm wondering if you can provide any updates on the apps being developed by third parties? Are some programmers in regular contact with you or are they off on their own? I remember you saying there was an app being developed that was similar to Google Sky Map. It will superimpose race data on your smartphone screen when you point it at the boats while they're racing.

 

Now that the Liveline crew have had a break from the action what sort of new enhancements are you working on?

 

Thanks again for the tour of your facility during the ACWS in SD.

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Oysterhead,

 

I'm not sure you are back at work or even monitoring SA but if you are:

 

I'm wondering if you can provide any updates on the apps being developed by third parties? Are some programmers in regular contact with you or are they off on their own? I remember you saying there was an app being developed that was similar to Google Sky Map. It will superimpose race data on your smartphone screen when you point it at the boats while they're racing.

 

Now that the Liveline crew have had a break from the action what sort of new enhancements are you working on?

 

Thanks again for the tour of your facility during the ACWS in SD.

 

Hank et al

 

Oysterhead is largely back at his day job (Teaching up in Washington State) from what I understand and largely is mostly only involved when the racing is going on. It is however great that he keeps in touch with us all here on SA, that I know is appreciated by many.

 

Liveline uses the data stream they are making public available, currently in a fairly tough to use binary format. There are announced plans to make a more friendly stream available though Lightstreamer, but this from my recent conversations with Stan, Ken & Co. is still being worked on.

 

I'm prototyping something just now to take and re-package and augment (with useful additional calculated data points) this data and re-stream it and make it available for deeper historical analysis or app use. When I have something useful I may post a link here.

 

Ken Milnes updated the binary data specification, on Dec 12 2011, and updated to a more recent stream from the SD ACWS event given some feedback from observations of an older replay from Plymouth, and here is the latest link to the spec: http://www.americascup.com/PageFiles/9311/AC34%20Streaming%20Data%20Interface%20Specification.pdf

 

BTW for this updated replay race data stream (on continuous replay). The stream has over 250k messages for the 40 min race, and if you miss information early in the stream timeline you'll lack context to the rest of the data.

 

Bear in mind that the use case design requirements for this data was to support the needs of the Race Management/Umpire and Liveline systems...they just decided to make this data publicly available, as is...the use cases are much different for more casual app use that may not be running from before the start of a race, or may, given signal of internet connection availability issues, have it's connection interrupted at the critical moment of a once a race message. Also given that there is limited processing power on most mobile devices processing more data than needed for a specific app may be challenging if not a waste of scarce bandwidth or mobile network data allowances (assuming no Wi-Fi access) and those precious CPU cycles.

 

I'd also be interested though in who has plans to build apps to use this underlying data (regardless of format) and what any specific data needs might be or the axis on which the data might need to be oriented. I can then bear that in mind with my prototype in the hopes that it can more easily support those use cases/usage scenarios earlier than later.

 

I expect it would be good to be able to track and compare the track, rounding’s and general performance of each boat for each rounding in a race and even across races should the data be normalized or comparable against a reference, that might include continually evolving polars and taking the performance improvements over time of those polars as boat/sail development continues and the 72's get launched, and have on-board wind instruments that the 45' don't have. I also have some interesting ideas around visualizations for the speed trials (are they even going to exist for the 72's in the ACWS or LVC?).

 

There is likely to be different apps to sever the needs of those both following the race remotely and those on site using their mobile device du jour.

 

The challenge for all developers is that a continuous replay of a given race stream is all good, but the more different data sets and volume of data that can be tested against will make any apps developed be more reliable in handling the millions of variables that a single stream likely wont contain. As such any app reliability will need to evolve of the next few ACWS events, and that its a long wait 'till late April in Venice for anything new to test "live" against. Perhaps they will be an opportunity to stream data from any organized (but unofficial) practice races in Valencia?

 

If anyone wants to discuss more please send me a personal message here

 

Happy New Year!

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Oysterhead,

 

I'm not sure you are back at work or even monitoring SA but if you are:

 

I'm wondering if you can provide any updates on the apps being developed by third parties? Are some programmers in regular contact with you or are they off on their own? I remember you saying there was an app being developed that was similar to Google Sky Map. It will superimpose race data on your smartphone screen when you point it at the boats while they're racing.

 

Now that the Liveline crew have had a break from the action what sort of new enhancements are you working on?

 

Thanks again for the tour of your facility during the ACWS in SD.

 

Hank et al

 

Oysterhead is largely back at his day job (Teaching up in Washington State) from what I understand and largely is mostly only involved when the racing is going on. It is however great that he keeps in touch with us all here on SA, that I know is appreciated by many.

 

Liveline uses the data stream they are making public available, currently in a fairly tough to use binary format. There are announced plans to make a more friendly stream available though Lightstreamer, but this from my recent conversations with Stan, Ken & Co. is still being worked on.

 

I'm prototyping something just now to take and re-package and augment (with useful additional calculated data points) this data and re-stream it and make it available for deeper historical analysis or app use. When I have something useful I may post a link here.

 

Ken Milnes updated the binary data specification, on Dec 12 2011, and updated to a more recent stream from the SD ACWS event given some feedback from observations of an older replay from Plymouth, and here is the latest link to the spec: http://www.americascup.com/PageFiles/9311/AC34%20Streaming%20Data%20Interface%20Specification.pdf

 

BTW for this updated replay race data stream (on continuous replay). The stream has over 250k messages for the 40 min race, and if you miss information early in the stream timeline you'll lack context to the rest of the data.

 

Bear in mind that the use case design requirements for this data was to support the needs of the Race Management/Umpire and Liveline systems...they just decided to make this data publicly available, as is...the use cases are much different for more casual app use that may not be running from before the start of a race, or may, given signal of internet connection availability issues, have it's connection interrupted at the critical moment of a once a race message. Also given that there is limited processing power on most mobile devices processing more data than needed for a specific app may be challenging if not a waste of scarce bandwidth or mobile network data allowances (assuming no Wi-Fi access) and those precious CPU cycles.

 

I'd also be interested though in who has plans to build apps to use this underlying data (regardless of format) and what any specific data needs might be or the axis on which the data might need to be oriented. I can then bear that in mind with my prototype in the hopes that it can more easily support those use cases/usage scenarios earlier than later.

 

I expect it would be good to be able to track and compare the track, rounding’s and general performance of each boat for each rounding in a race and even across races should the data be normalized or comparable against a reference, that might include continually evolving polars and taking the performance improvements over time of those polars as boat/sail development continues and the 72's get launched, and have on-board wind instruments that the 45' don't have. I also have some interesting ideas around visualizations for the speed trials (are they even going to exist for the 72's in the ACWS or LVC?).

 

There is likely to be different apps to sever the needs of those both following the race remotely and those on site using their mobile device du jour.

 

The challenge for all developers is that a continuous replay of a given race stream is all good, but the more different data sets and volume of data that can be tested against will make any apps developed be more reliable in handling the millions of variables that a single stream likely wont contain. As such any app reliability will need to evolve of the next few ACWS events, and that its a long wait 'till late April in Venice for anything new to test "live" against. Perhaps they will be an opportunity to stream data from any organized (but unofficial) practice races in Valencia?

 

If anyone wants to discuss more please send me a personal message here

 

Happy New Year!

 

Observer,

 

I looked at the PDF and wish I could understand more of it but I'm an end user not a programmer. I really appreciate your update and hope you continue to post here.

 

Hank

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Observer, I have a rough audio recording from the backstage tour we got, including when you asked Stan about time syncing to the broadcast and he mentioned the possibility to use 'scene changes.' PM me if you'd like that audio, in which case I'll try figure how to get it off a phone in a useful segment.

 

Am so glad there's interest in this subject, the possibilities are waay cool.

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Observer, I have a rough audio recording from the backstage tour we got, including when you asked Stan about time syncing to the broadcast and he mentioned the possibility to use 'scene changes.' PM me if you'd like that audio, in which case I'll try figure how to get it off a phone in a useful segment.

 

Am so glad there's interest in this subject, the possibilities are waay cool.

 

Stingers - No Problem...Not my major concern just now. I did had a chat with some folks at Adobe, and what really needs to happen (apparently) is for the timecode to be embedded in the video stream so it can be used to synchronize any data that is being displayed along side it. This is great for those watching remotely; but those live at the action will have to cope with the latency of the video and decide if they want data synced to any video or as fast as their app can get it (which will no doubt have some latency too), which brings the relevancy of this conversation back to Liveline, and things that the AC34 Technology team have an influence over.

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Observer,

 

I looked at the PDF and wish I could understand more of it but I'm an end user not a programmer. I really appreciate your update and hope you continue to post here.

 

Hank

 

Hank - No Problem, It would be great if the AC43 Tech folks would actually create a forum for those technologist that are doing stuff with the data and allow them all to share insights, the basis of a community that might build momentum.

 

In their previous endeavors where they made the data available (for the baseball thing) there is a bigger audience that is all about statistics and as such perhaps did not need to build a community to get people to develop apps, they could all but fall over each other to do something with it. I've not looked; but expect that the data in the AC34 feed is far more complex, and the barrier to understanding, and thus entry, is higher, making a more formal community invaluable. With this AC data there is a need for collaboration not competition.

 

If there are any interested technologists out there, please ping me a PM an perhaps we can set up something informal.

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^They can just set one up here. :-)

 

On another note, I ran into a Random Guy at a Bar in Brooklyn and after talking about the violence of the NHL, the speed of NASCAR, and college football, we had a fun chat about the AC. This guy was just as excited about sailboat racing and learning about what was happening now as he was about Hockey. I kinda couldn't believe it. He was a hoot. His name was Joe.

 

His last memory of the AC was New Zealand and then legal battles. He wasn't sure if the USA had the AC now. He liked watching on TV, but wish he could understand it better, even though he did race as a kid. Long story short, when I showed Joe the first video I could find on YT which turned out to be from SD, he said, that's exactly what I was talking about! He got the grid lines right away, loved the circles around the marks, loved the LiveLine views (go Oysterhead!!) and also the onboard cameras were a real hit.

 

He went on with a few questions, related to his prior experience watching and remembering wind speed, boat speed, wind shadows etc:

 

-Can we see, or will they tell us when a boat is covering another boats wind? (Yes they tell us)

-Can we see the speed of the wind? Good question.

-Can we we see distances in feet? That's what Americans understand, you know? hmm.

-I think there should be an underwater camera at the mark roundings. And if you ask them that, can they call it Gator Cam? That's my nick name.

Gosh I hope so.

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^They can just set one up here. :-)

 

On another note, I ran into a Random Guy at a Bar in Brooklyn and after talking about the violence of the NHL, the speed of NASCAR, and college football, we had a fun chat about the AC. This guy was just as excited about sailboat racing and learning about what was happening now as he was about Hockey. I kinda couldn't believe it. He was a hoot. His name was Joe.

 

His last memory of the AC was New Zealand and then legal battles. He wasn't sure if the USA had the AC now. He liked watching on TV, but wish he could understand it better, even though he did race as a kid. Long story short, when I showed Joe the first video I could find on YT which turned out to be from SD, he said, that's exactly what I was talking about! He got the grid lines right away, loved the circles around the marks, loved the LiveLine views (go Oysterhead!!) and also the onboard cameras were a real hit.

 

He went on with a few questions, related to his prior experience watching and remembering wind speed, boat speed, wind shadows etc:

 

-Can we see, or will they tell us when a boat is covering another boats wind? (Yes they tell us)

-Can we see the speed of the wind? Good question.

-Can we we see distances in feet? That's what Americans understand, you know? hmm.

-I think there should be an underwater camera at the mark roundings. And if you ask them that, can they call it Gator Cam? That's my nick name.

Gosh I hope so.

 

Did you get a chance to show him the checked flag and ask him if he liked that?

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^They can just set one up here. :-)

 

On another note, I ran into a Random Guy at a Bar in Brooklyn and after talking about the violence of the NHL, the speed of NASCAR, and college football, we had a fun chat about the AC. This guy was just as excited about sailboat racing and learning about what was happening now as he was about Hockey. I kinda couldn't believe it. He was a hoot. His name was Joe.

 

His last memory of the AC was New Zealand and then legal battles. He wasn't sure if the USA had the AC now. He liked watching on TV, but wish he could understand it better, even though he did race as a kid. Long story short, when I showed Joe the first video I could find on YT which turned out to be from SD, he said, that's exactly what I was talking about! He got the grid lines right away, loved the circles around the marks, loved the LiveLine views (go Oysterhead!!) and also the onboard cameras were a real hit.

 

He went on with a few questions, related to his prior experience watching and remembering wind speed, boat speed, wind shadows etc:

 

-Can we see, or will they tell us when a boat is covering another boats wind? (Yes they tell us)

-Can we see the speed of the wind? Good question.

-Can we we see distances in feet? That's what Americans understand, you know? hmm.

-I think there should be an underwater camera at the mark roundings. And if you ask them that, can they call it Gator Cam? That's my nick name.

Gosh I hope so.

 

Did you get a chance to show him the checked flag and ask him if he liked that?

 

Hmm, to stir the pot or not to stir the pot?

 

It was refreshing, frankly, to talk to someone so far outside of this space, but still a lover, generally of sailing. He's not a traditionalist, but not a facebooker either. Just likes to watch sports, the characters, and loves intrigue. His first recollection of the TV coverage of the characters in the AC was one way back of a tipsy Ted Turner. I couldn't find that video, but did find this fun relic. 60 minutes coverage of the defender selection series in 1977: Hood v. North v. Turner

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^They can just set one up here. :-)

 

On another note, I ran into a Random Guy at a Bar in Brooklyn and after talking about the violence of the NHL, the speed of NASCAR, and college football, we had a fun chat about the AC. This guy was just as excited about sailboat racing and learning about what was happening now as he was about Hockey. I kinda couldn't believe it. He was a hoot. His name was Joe.

 

His last memory of the AC was New Zealand and then legal battles. He wasn't sure if the USA had the AC now. He liked watching on TV, but wish he could understand it better, even though he did race as a kid. Long story short, when I showed Joe the first video I could find on YT which turned out to be from SD, he said, that's exactly what I was talking about! He got the grid lines right away, loved the circles around the marks, loved the LiveLine views (go Oysterhead!!) and also the onboard cameras were a real hit.

 

He went on with a few questions, related to his prior experience watching and remembering wind speed, boat speed, wind shadows etc:

 

-Can we see, or will they tell us when a boat is covering another boats wind? (Yes they tell us)

-Can we see the speed of the wind? Good question.

-Can we we see distances in feet? That's what Americans understand, you know? hmm.

-I think there should be an underwater camera at the mark roundings. And if you ask them that, can they call it Gator Cam? That's my nick name.

Gosh I hope so.

 

Did you get a chance to show him the checked flag and ask him if he liked that?

 

Hmm, to stir the pot or not to stir the pot?

 

It was refreshing, frankly, to talk to someone so far outside of this space, but still a lover, generally of sailing. He's not a traditionalist, but not a facebooker either. Just likes to watch sports, the characters, and loves intrigue. His first recollection of the TV coverage of the characters in the AC was one way back of a tipsy Ted Turner. I couldn't find that video, but did find this fun relic. 60 minutes coverage of the defender selection series in 1977: Hood v. North v. Turner

 

"....it's like war without the killing....."

 

Only from Turner.

 

I like the hiking stick that North put on the wheel of Enterprise. Then you also had Pelle Pettersen with the tiller on Sverige, along with the cycle grinders. And I graduated high school.

 

What a year.

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^ one of the lines from that article - it's quite rich in the hyperlinks too

 

"In fact, if you click above for the full image you'll see that he's also laid out a race route so that Expedition can use polars for the AC45 catamaran one design to calculate a total time for the course."

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^ one of the lines from that article - it's quite rich in the hyperlinks too

 

"In fact, if you click above for the full image you'll see that he's also laid out a race route so that Expedition can use polars for the AC45 catamaran one design to calculate a total time for the course."

 

Have the One Design AC45 polars been made available ?

 

With the AC45's boats missing wind instrumentation it's going to be a little difficult to build polars off the archive (and ongoing) data available, albeit an approximation could be derived based of readings from the nearby mark boats (that I believe do have the necessary instrumentation). It would then be possible to detect how well a given boat is being sailed at any given time as an additional data point - As a "Performance Percentage" ?

 

For the AC72's when they launch, this is going to have to be built off the data, as the teams are not going to want to "share" this information. At least there are plans to be able to have them transmit wind data (per the data specs); we'll have to see if that actually happens.

 

This data will of course evolve even with the 45's as the teams develop their soft sails, and for the 72's, their polars are likely going to be a continual evolution, that might also be worth tracking and comparing between events.

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