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Ajax

Splicing

66 posts in this topic

I cannot seem to make a simple eye splice in double braid. I have all the tools, I understand the concept. I am using rather old, dry, stiff scraps of line for practice because I'm not fucking so made of money that I'll go buy brand-new double braid just to practice eye splices.

 

I can barely dig the core out of this shit, and then when I make the crossover, at the second step where you push the core back into the cover, I lose it right where it should come out of the cover, so you can pull out the excess because it simply won't slide against itself. Does brand new line really open up and slide against itself so much more easily? If you say so, then I'll go buy some but I want to know if I'm doing something wrong first.

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I share your grief...but you gotta use new line. I learned the hard way too.

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Even professionals balk at splcing old line. New line is 100 times easier to splice.

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I had a miserable time trying to use old line.

 

As soon as I tried it on some new nylon 1/2" line, it went as smooth as silk.

 

Buy some cheap Samson and practice on that. It will go easy.

 

This video and technique rocks.

 

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That's all I needed to know. Thanks a bunch. That video is the one I've been using. If I just could have grabbed the tail of the core and pulled it through, I would have had it...

 

This isn't an affectation, I really feel that this is an important skill to have, that could save my ass out on the water some day so I at least want to master a basic double braid eye splice, and a 3 strand eye splice.

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its easier for a heap of reasons..mostly its the sun and the salt that detract from the new rope features... NEW lines are more lubricated.. more flexible

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its easier for a heap of reasons..mostly its the sun and the salt that detract from the new rope features... NEW lines are more lubricated.. more flexible

 

And stretched...like a Chinese finger trap.

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If you can do a splice on an old line, then the new stuff is easy. A lot also depends on the cover, the more strands in the cover, the tighter it is and usually harder it is to splice. If you bring some new stuff with you tomorrow night, I can go over some tips with you on the deck over a beer. I don't think anyone would mind. Also, larger line is easier to splice. I wouldn't attempt to splice anything under 1/4".

 

To be honest, a splice probably isn't going to save your ass on the water. Being able to tie a bowline or other knot while it's blowing snot at 0300 and raining sideways is a better skill to have. Practice with you eyes closed standing in a cold shower.

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one thing to remember...the splices for class I and class II line are different. Make sure you are using the correct splice.

 

Class I being that the core and the cover both bear the load.

 

Class II being that the core bears the load and the cover is there for abrasion protection.

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If you can do a splice on an old line, then the new stuff is easy. A lot also depends on the cover, the more strands in the cover, the tighter it is and usually harder it is to splice. If you bring some new stuff with you tomorrow night, I can go over some tips with you on the deck over a beer. I don't think anyone would mind. Also, larger line is easier to splice. I wouldn't attempt to splice anything under 1/4".

 

To be honest, a splice probably isn't going to save your ass on the water. Being able to tie a bowline or other knot while it's blowing snot at 0300 and raining sideways is a better skill to have. Practice with you eyes closed standing in a cold shower during an earthquake.

:lol:

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Has anyone spliced a constant diameter end for end??! That took for ever as at one point you have three diameters of rope trying to share the same space.. Ajax i agree its not about affectation, i learned via making up some lazyjacks and splicing the hardware into the lines. I was really surprised at how straightforward this can be when you simply follow the instructions. Its funny because at first it seems really complicated but after you do it the first time its just burying rope tails.

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Ajax,

 

It is a piece of cake to splice the 12-strand Dyneema stuff. Have a look at L-36.com With old line, if you really must splice it, try soaking it in fresh water with dish washing soap, then push on the ends to open it up while it's wet. Don't rinse the soap out as that will lube the rope. But make sure you've got the dirt and salt out. May require multiple soakings in soapy water.

 

BV

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Ajax, I got Brian Toss' book for my birthday. I have it on the bedside table and it puts me to sleep after about 3 paragraphs...you are way ahead of me! :rolleyes:

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splicing old line?

 

I did't know you were in to S&M.

 

Gee you learn something new every day. :)

 

-M

 

and H,B!: my copy has about 5 pages that get 99.99% of the use, and the rest is the "why". interesting, but as a "tool" could be condensed to a pamphlet.

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I have the book as well. I guess I'm a visual learner.

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Ajax,

 

It is a piece of cake to splice the 12-strand Dyneema stuff. Have a look at L-36.com With old line, if you really must splice it, try soaking it in fresh water with dish washing soap, then push on the ends to open it up while it's wet. Don't rinse the soap out as that will lube the rope. But make sure you've got the dirt and salt out. May require multiple soakings in soapy water.

 

BV

 

Old line is definitely harder to splice. The idea of soaking or washing the lines first sounds like a good idea and may save you the cost of buying new line to practice on Ajax.

 

Good idea Beau.

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I did soak the stuff, but I didn't try the soap. It wasn't any easier when it was wet, and it seemed to get worse when it was dry. I'll pony up and pay for new line to practice on.

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You can quite often buy roll-ends and off-cuts for cheaper than the normal per-foot price. You only need about 12' lengths to practice and you should be able to put a splice in each end...

... thats what I did anyway. If you plan ahead and trim your off-cuts to suit, you can end up with new dock lines!

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Ajax,

 

It is a piece of cake to splice the 12-strand Dyneema stuff. Have a look at L-36.com With old line, if you really must splice it, try soaking it in fresh water with dish washing soap, then push on the ends to open it up while it's wet. Don't rinse the soap out as that will lube the rope. But make sure you've got the dirt and salt out. May require multiple soakings in soapy water.

 

BV

 

Old line is definitely harder to splice. The idea of soaking or washing the lines first sounds like a good idea and may save you the cost of buying new line to practice on Ajax.

 

Good idea Beau.

 

Something I've used for old rope is wiring pulling lubricant. Like this stuff:

yellow_77.jpg

You can get it at Home Depot.

 

Smear it on the fid and cover before you do the pull.

 

-tk

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Not even Chuck Norris can splice "old, dried out line"!! Even if only used a few times one must use silicone or similar to get the stuff to slide. The makers lube the threads with silicone (IIRC) during manufacture, but as they braid the cover around an already made core they don't need much. And when a spool of thread runs out, they just bury the end thru everything, so no splicing there, either. Get some brand new straight Dacron braid, you'll be a LOT happier whilst learning to splice.

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About 15 years ago I came across a braided line splice called Humbold - I didn't keep the article , and cant seem to find anything on the NET. anybody out there know what I am talking about ?

If I remember correctly , it was a kind of threading backwards and forwards thru the line....

 

Kris

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This isn't an affectation, I really feel that this is an important skill to have, that could save my ass out on the water some day so I at least want to master a basic double braid eye splice, and a 3 strand eye splice.

 

You never know what will happen, but emergency splicing? I can only splice when calm and relaxed. If I need a loop in an emergency I tie a bowline.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's both a satisfying and useful skill, and will at least save your rigging $$$ on land, if not your ass on the water.

 

Splicing old line is a good punishment for disobedient crew.

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Has anyone spliced a constant diameter end for end??! That took for ever as at one point you have three diameters of rope trying to share the same space.. Ajax i agree its not about affectation, i learned via making up some lazyjacks and splicing the hardware into the lines. I was really surprised at how straightforward this can be when you simply follow the instructions. Its funny because at first it seems really complicated but after you do it the first time its just burying rope tails.

 

I've done constant diameter end for end for a continuous furler- used class 1 and found it ok using this video from NE Ropes. Not sure it is appropriate for a high load application but works fine in my furler.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpyhS7WEWSE

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About 15 years ago I came across a braided line splice called Humbold - I didn't keep the article , and cant seem to find anything on the NET. anybody out there know what I am talking about ?

If I remember correctly , it was a kind of threading backwards and forwards thru the line....

 

Kris

 

Are you thinking of the Brummel splice by any chance?

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I did soak the stuff, but I didn't try the soap. It wasn't any easier when it was wet, and it seemed to get worse when it was dry. I'll pony up and pay for new line to practice on.

 

Yeah. Check out the remnant rack at your local marine $upply $tore and see if you can get some ends.

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Other thing to use help things along on a splice are, uhm... err.... :unsure: water-based personal lubricants :unsure:

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Other thing to use help things along on a splice are, uhm... err.... :unsure: water-based personal lubricants :unsure:

 

Kind of like the fact that oysters are edible. One wonders how someone first came to learn that...

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I'm with you Beau, love the 12 strand! Don't miss rope to wire splices one fucking bit.

 

My current halyards are like that. Obviously outdated in this new era extremely high strength textiles, but I'm amazed at how two very disimilar materials are woven together that way.

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I'm with you Beau, love the 12 strand! Don't miss rope to wire splices one fucking bit.

 

+10000

 

Hated making them. Hated using them.

 

Also hated wire spin guys and 22' metal spin poles flailing around in a broach :o

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FWIW...

 

The best thing I've found for splicing are the Brion Toss wands. Yeah, they're bloody-assed expensive, but the ease of use makes 'em worth every cent. That you'll be happy to do your own splicing will save you the cost many times over.

 

I've also learned a lot from the Toss DVD "Making Your Own Eye Splices." Visual directions are just easier to follow.

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I love that video , best explanation of double braid splicing . I got a great result after watching it with a season old line.

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When we started re-rigging a friend's boat we replaced all the sheaves and changed every halyard, after-guy, and jib-sheet from wire&dacron to SK-75 stuff. On a 50' boat it saved almost 150lb :blink: We were stunned. We were doing it because we've all still got scars from the meat-hooks in the wires, I hadn't really thought about the weight.

 

Remember wire 180% genoa sheets on coffee-grinders aboard maxi boats!! Scary shit!

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Ajax...no matter how shitty the wire/rope halyards look, save them when/if you get them off the boat. We used mine this weekend to haul trees off houses and shit.

 

And if you get all the meat hooks out, they are great for hanging sails & canvas in the back yard when you clean/waterproof it.

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A ha! Used a free end-cut, courtesy of my local WM. Quick and easy.

post-42428-049610600 1314996851_thumb.jpg

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A ha! Used a free end-cut, courtesy of my local WM. Quick and easy.

 

It looks crooked. :)

 

<running>

 

Have a nice holiday weekend!

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seriously, it looks great. keep at it. there is little more satisfying than doing this yourself instead of paying someone at the marine supply store to do it for you.

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seriously, it looks great. keep at it. there is little more satisfying than doing this yourself instead of paying someone at the marine supply store to do it for you.

 

Thus begins the anti-prostitution movement. Be careful, my friend.

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Next up: 3-strand splices. Gotta scrounge some first.

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Tucky, i was splicing double braid/class II and it was definitely a pain in the ass. It took me at least two hours of struggling with it to figure out a way of getting it right. Seems to be working ok now though, ours is for the furler as well. The instructions i was using had us cut and remove half of the core tails only after they had been reinserted, i think other instructions have it different.

 

Has anyone spliced a constant diameter end for end??! That took for ever as at one point you have three diameters of rope trying to share the same space.. Ajax i agree its not about affectation, i learned via making up some lazyjacks and splicing the hardware into the lines. I was really surprised at how straightforward this can be when you simply follow the instructions. Its funny because at first it seems really complicated but after you do it the first time its just burying rope tails.

 

I've done constant diameter end for end for a continuous furler- used class 1 and found it ok using this video from NE Ropes. Not sure it is appropriate for a high load application but works fine in my furler.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpyhS7WEWSE

 

 

 

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seriously, it looks great. keep at it. there is little more satisfying than doing this yourself instead of paying someone at the marine supply store to do it for you.

 

Never mind the 3 hour drive to the marine store...like most things here, we do it ourselves or it doesn't get done.

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Next up: 3-strand splices. Gotta scrounge some first.

 

Three strand is easy - once you get the hang of it.

 

I use masking tape for the ends - short wrap worked to a dull point.

But use string to tie off the working end (not tape - too wide)

 

Getting the splice started is the big mystery.

 

Working end center strand ON TOP to start (B in the diagram).

Then rotate into the lay and tuck A under the next loop; flip back over to dig out the loop for C.

(don't worry about all the letters, just get the orientation right and it works)

You should have three strands coming out in three places.

Never have two strands coming under the same place.

If you find that, back up to see where it went wrong.

 

After that, it's "over one - under one" - over standing part strands, of course - NEVER under a tucked strand!

 

The pic below is the best I've ever found.

 

Once you get eye splices starting easily, try a back splice.

 

Then maybe try end-to-end. (they are a bear to get started, but simple after that)

post-36012-045441200 1315608131_thumb.jpg

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I'm just not getting enough helm time. :(

 

Lock-whips:

post-42428-0-40885500-1353462851_thumb.jpg

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I'm just not getting enough helm time. :(

 

Lock-whips:

 

So I'm guessing that saying it was 74, sunny, wind sse 8-12 today wouldn't help???

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I'm just not getting enough helm time. :(

 

Lock-whips:

 

So I'm guessing that saying it was 74, sunny, wind sse 8-12 today wouldn't help???

 

Ajax is too busy figuring out how he is going to raise the quadruplets (and rebuilding his boat so they all have bunks) he has spawned on the live-aboard/world cruiser thread to have any time for sailing right now. :)

 

3 strand splicing is dead easy. The New England Ropes strands tend to unravel, so if you are using that, tightly tape up the ends of each of the three strands for about 2 inches to hold them together.

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ice,

 

You are one sick bastard. I'm 40 years old, and will NEVER make more babies. I'd go to the doc to get snipped, but it hardly seems necessary, now that I'm essentially a marine version of a Gregorian monk.

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:lol:

 

In the big scheme of sailing, maintinence and now learning splicing and rigging....You've come a long way in a short time Ajax....bravo!

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Ha, if Youtube ever goes down, I'm screwed.

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Youtube is a very viable learning media, so much available, and it keeps growing.

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I'm just not getting enough helm time. :(

 

Lock-whips:

Looking good! Keep at it, it will get easier.

I learned to splice double braid over 40 years ago. Since then I have done all my own splicing on all my boats and have recently starting making a little money making tapered halyards, installing chafe covers on halyards and splicing simple double braid eye splices on other boats. I have a couple of end-to-end splices to make up this week if the weather clears up some. It is a good skill to know and marketable too! A lot of people don't even want to try to splice.

 

The modern line is so much nicer for running rigging than some of what we worked with in the past. I strip and taper my halyards and sheets and guys. In the past, I spliced rope/wire halyards. I really don't want to do that again, but would probably try it again if someone wanted a halyard made up that way.

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ice,

 

You are one sick bastard. I'm 40 years old, and will NEVER make more babies. I'd go to the doc to get snipped, but it hardly seems necessary, now that I'm essentially a marine version of a Gregorian monk.

 

ouch . . .

 

but never say never . . . . just look at Petraeus!

 

What's next on your 'skills to learn' list after splicing? There's weather, and emergency responder first aid, sewing, and welding to consider.

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but never say never . . . . just look at Petraeus!

 

 

General Petraeus is the father of Courtney's children??? !!!!! Now I'm really concerned about who hit her boat. At the time it seemed like an accident, not so much now.

 

Welding up a tin hat might just be a useful skill for a monk to have, just sayin'

 

And just who is this ice9a person who tries to pass for Estar anyways- have they ever been seen in the same room together?

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I'm just not getting enough helm time. :(

 

Lock-whips:

Looking good! Keep at it, it will get easier.

I learned to splice double braid over 40 years ago. Since then I have done all my own splicing on all my boats and have recently starting making a little money making tapered halyards, installing chafe covers on halyards and splicing simple double braid eye splices on other boats. I have a couple of end-to-end splices to make up this week if the weather clears up some. It is a good skill to know and marketable too! A lot of people don't even want to try to splice.

 

The modern line is so much nicer for running rigging than some of what we worked with in the past. I strip and taper my halyards and sheets and guys. In the past, I spliced rope/wire halyards. I really don't want to do that again, but would probably try it again if someone wanted a halyard made up that way.

 

End-to-end wold be a very valuable skill to pick up.

The furling line on my friend's boat broke (after 28 years).

The marina's rigger came to fix it, but didn't know how.

He did the "loop?" type splice first time. (the type with the female part in it?)

That didn't work (obviously), but that was all he knew how to do then.

Next week he came back and did a proper in-line splice.

We all watched him for half an hour or so - the prep work.

Then, when nobody was looking it was suddenly done.

Still have no clue haw it happened!

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I'm just not getting enough helm time. :(

 

Lock-whips:

Looking good! Keep at it, it will get easier.

I learned to splice double braid over 40 years ago. Since then I have done all my own splicing on all my boats and have recently starting making a little money making tapered halyards, installing chafe covers on halyards and splicing simple double braid eye splices on other boats. I have a couple of end-to-end splices to make up this week if the weather clears up some. It is a good skill to know and marketable too! A lot of people don't even want to try to splice.

 

The modern line is so much nicer for running rigging than some of what we worked with in the past. I strip and taper my halyards and sheets and guys. In the past, I spliced rope/wire halyards. I really don't want to do that again, but would probably try it again if someone wanted a halyard made up that way.

 

End-to-end wold be a very valuable skill to pick up.

The furling line on my friend's boat broke (after 28 years).

The marina's rigger came to fix it, but didn't know how.

He did the "loop?" type splice first time. (the type with the female part in it?)

That didn't work (obviously), but that was all he knew how to do then.

Next week he came back and did a proper in-line splice.

We all watched him for half an hour or so - the prep work.

Then, when nobody was looking it was suddenly done.

Still have no clue haw it happened!

I just got back from the marina after splicing an end for end. It fought me for every part of it. The line is used but newer and the ends I did the splice on are unloaded. Oh well, looks really awesome when it is done. Red and green line spliced together! I hope the owner likes it.

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ice,

 

You are one sick bastard. I'm 40 years old, and will NEVER make more babies. I'd go to the doc to get snipped, but it hardly seems necessary, now that I'm essentially a marine version of a Gregorian monk.

 

ouch . . .

 

but never say never . . . . just look at Petraeus!

 

What's next on your 'skills to learn' list after splicing? There's weather, and emergency responder first aid, sewing, and welding to consider.

 

Definitely weather. Meteorology is very interesting to me.

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Learning to splice has other practical benefits outside of the marine field. One day I lost the fan belt on my Alfa. I had a length of 3/8" 3 strand nylon in the trunk. I loosened the alternator and shoved it all the way in to it's stop then looped the line around the pulleys and measured the length of line I would need. I cut the line and end to end spliced it. I slipped the line onto the pulleys, tensioned it and drove off. It got me 15 miles to home with a bit of glazing and melting on the line. It probably would have gotten me at least another 20 at least.

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Definitely weather. Meteorology is very interesting to me.

 

A ton of free professional quality on-line seminars here:

 

https://www.meted.uc...ning_detail.php

 

edit no midget porn though :(

 

Ha, thanks man. I'm sure it's still a great resource and I'll check it out. I think I'll look into end-to-end splicing as well. I've got plenty of winter to practice.

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