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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

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gabramel

New 42 Footer IRC Yacht Coming?

21 posts in this topic

Rumour has it that a chinese company have picked up the tooling for the Luctor 42.

 

With the low labour costs and if they make some sensible materials decisions to reduce cost and add a little weight they might be able to pop these bad boys out pretty cheaply.

 

They should certainly be able to produce a fast 42 footer and get a price lower than the Soto40, Ker40 etc etc.

 

Will we see a "brand new" keenly priced IRC 42 out soon or will this one die like many of the projects that never get going?

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I think Seawolf was/is a Lutra 42. NFI what/if any difference between a Luctor or Lutra 42. But from the results I've seen they do seem to back up your summation of it's performance.

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Here we go again...brace yourselves for the China-haters.

 

I think it's cool news and hope we see shitloads of them on the Asian Circuit!

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This is the same boat as Big Booty? The Lutra 42 that started life as Seawolf?

 

Good luck to them. The boat has not set the world on fire here in the US despite participating in some serious IRC regattas with talented crew. It looks cool and is a good idea but it just hasn't found it's stride yet.

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yeah it is seawolf - the one and only version of this yacht thus far.

 

Lutra are the designers

 

Luctor are the builders - or the "brand" or managers of the builders.

 

Would be an awesome boat if they can make a few alterations to target IRC even more. No need for full carbon etc... target weight of maybe 4500-4800 instead of 4200.

 

It would be great if they pop these out for a decent price. Build cost in europe was probably about EURO 250k - 350k but with Chinese labour and less carbon I reckon that could be as low as £120k... maybe lower...

 

Sale price of £220k ex sails & electronics... bargain! they'd sell lot hot cakes.

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yeah it is seawolf - the one and only version of this yacht thus far.

 

Lutra are the designers

 

Luctor are the builders - or the "brand" or managers of the builders.

 

Would be an awesome boat if they can make a few alterations to target IRC even more. No need for full carbon etc... target weight of maybe 4500-4800 instead of 4200.

 

It would be great if they pop these out for a decent price. Build cost in europe was probably about EURO 250k - 350k but with Chinese labour and less carbon I reckon that could be as low as £120k... maybe lower...

 

Sale price of £220k ex sails & electronics... bargain! they'd sell lot hot cakes.

Is any GP 42 based boat any good?

 

 

On another point what is the story on the Lutra boats Tonnerre de Beskens and Formidable 3?

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Is any GP 42 based boat any good?

 

 

On another point what is the story on the Lutra boats Tonnerre de Beskens and Formidable 3?

 

 

Any good?

 

I would say they are. But I am biased. I like fast boats instead of heavy IRC cruisers. Whether they are any good for IRC is another matter.

 

I thought one of the OYSTERCATCHERS was a modified GP42 type thing and it won something?

Seawolf didn't do too badly in a few events, not a total waste.

"Near Miss" (modified GP42) won a couple of things in IRC mode in the Med.

 

You can't write them off totally in IRC.

 

The point is they are fast and you would hope that using the same hull shape they could be very fast and win the odd piece of tin.

 

 

Not sure of any story with Tonnerre

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yeah it is seawolf - the one and only version of this yacht thus far.

 

Lutra are the designers

 

Luctor are the builders - or the "brand" or managers of the builders.

 

Would be an awesome boat if they can make a few alterations to target IRC even more. No need for full carbon etc... target weight of maybe 4500-4800 instead of 4200.

 

It would be great if they pop these out for a decent price. Build cost in europe was probably about EURO 250k - 350k but with Chinese labour and less carbon I reckon that could be as low as £120k... maybe lower...

 

Sale price of £220k ex sails & electronics... bargain! they'd sell lot hot cakes.

 

Labour on the China Eastern seaboard (i.e. where boats are being built) ins't exactly that cheap anymore (compared to even only 5 years ago).

 

Foxconn (Apple component mfg'r) has started moving factories to Central China as they simply cannot meet their margin targets anymore with rapidly rising S. China labour costs.

 

China is a market of many massive markets (or city clusters...eg: Pearl RIver Delta) with highly varied industries driving each (eg: Shanghai & surrounding = banking + automotive...Shenzhen & surrounding = clothing/fashion/electronics mfg). Remember...China has 150 cities with >1,000,000 population.

 

Point being, while it is indeed cheaper to built yachts in China, than in N America/Europe, for now, this will not last for much longer. At least quality yacht building (like McConaghy China) cannot be considered notably cheaper for much longer unless they move their facility to the interior and keep training cheaper, local hires.

 

Fascinating to watch the sheer pace of it all. Very frustrating for business. A nightmare market in which to recruit (voice of experience here).

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yeah it is seawolf - the one and only version of this yacht thus far.

 

Lutra are the designers

 

Luctor are the builders - or the "brand" or managers of the builders.

 

Would be an awesome boat if they can make a few alterations to target IRC even more. No need for full carbon etc... target weight of maybe 4500-4800 instead of 4200.

 

It would be great if they pop these out for a decent price. Build cost in europe was probably about EURO 250k - 350k but with Chinese labour and less carbon I reckon that could be as low as £120k... maybe lower...

 

Sale price of £220k ex sails & electronics... bargain! they'd sell lot hot cakes.

 

Labour on the China Eastern seaboard (i.e. where boats are being built) ins't exactly that cheap anymore (compared to even only 5 years ago).

 

Foxconn (Apple component mfg'r) has started moving factories to Central China as they simply cannot meet their margin targets anymore with rapidly rising S. China labour costs.

 

China is a market of many massive markets (or city clusters...eg: Pearl RIver Delta) with highly varied industries driving each (eg: Shanghai & surrounding = banking + automotive...Shenzhen & surrounding = clothing/fashion/electronics mfg). Remember...China has 150 cities with >1,000,000 population.

 

Point being, while it is indeed cheaper to built yachts in China, than in N America/Europe, for now, this will not last for much longer. At least quality yacht building (like McConaghy China) cannot be considered notably cheaper for much longer unless they move their facility to the interior and keep training cheaper, local hires.

 

Fascinating to watch the sheer pace of it all. Very frustrating for business. A nightmare market in which to recruit (voice of experience here).

 

A good friend once said: "The free flow of capital ultimately ruins all great markets." This will prove true in China soon, and is just starting in Viet Nam. Opening their economies to massive capital in-flows will drive up production but also prices. For a time, the fact that prices don't rise as fast as production gives the target country a competitive advantage, but in time (and in the case of China it's not much longer) the prices will catch up.

 

There is a micro example here in Santa Cruz where it used to be really cheap to build boats in chicken coops. Labor costs and environmental costs eventually drove out the boat builders, the price got too high. This is happening in parts of China now, at a rapid rate, as it happened in the UK in the early 20th century.

 

The only response, for a business is to change geography or control costs though a close "relationship" with the government, something that is generally illegal in the US. For a company, this works, for the labor pool, not so great. My guess is that China will have a labor cost advantage until its labor population can establish its own "relationship" with the government, which we call democracy here in the US. Then the true environmental costs, along with various other costs, will be carried by the businesses and prices will rise quickly. (as they are now) I'm guessing that'll take 10 to 20 more years.

 

BV

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Here we go again...brace yourselves for the China-haters.

 

I think it's cool news and hope we see shitloads of them on the Asian Circuit!

Uh Urm, cough, cough

 

FTA exists so a bunch of cunts can squawk about their nasty little fragile rockets.

B)

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Good, I generally like what he has to say.

 

But at the moment it's just another bit of vapourware until they pop boats outs.

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yeah it is seawolf - the one and only version of this yacht thus far.

 

Lutra are the designers

 

Luctor are the builders - or the "brand" or managers of the builders.

 

Would be an awesome boat if they can make a few alterations to target IRC even more. No need for full carbon etc... target weight of maybe 4500-4800 instead of 4200.

 

It would be great if they pop these out for a decent price. Build cost in europe was probably about EURO 250k - 350k but with Chinese labour and less carbon I reckon that could be as low as £120k... maybe lower...

 

Sale price of £220k ex sails & electronics... bargain! they'd sell lot hot cakes.

 

Labour on the China Eastern seaboard (i.e. where boats are being built) ins't exactly that cheap anymore (compared to even only 5 years ago).

 

Foxconn (Apple component mfg'r) has started moving factories to Central China as they simply cannot meet their margin targets anymore with rapidly rising S. China labour costs.

 

China is a market of many massive markets (or city clusters...eg: Pearl RIver Delta) with highly varied industries driving each (eg: Shanghai & surrounding = banking + automotive...Shenzhen & surrounding = clothing/fashion/electronics mfg). Remember...China has 150 cities with >1,000,000 population.

 

Point being, while it is indeed cheaper to built yachts in China, than in N America/Europe, for now, this will not last for much longer. At least quality yacht building (like McConaghy China) cannot be considered notably cheaper for much longer unless they move their facility to the interior and keep training cheaper, local hires.

 

Fascinating to watch the sheer pace of it all. Very frustrating for business. A nightmare market in which to recruit (voice of experience here).

 

A good friend once said: "The free flow of capital ultimately ruins all great markets." This will prove true in China soon, and is just starting in Viet Nam. Opening their economies to massive capital in-flows will drive up production but also prices. For a time, the fact that prices don't rise as fast as production gives the target country a competitive advantage, but in time (and in the case of China it's not much longer) the prices will catch up.

 

There is a micro example here in Santa Cruz where it used to be really cheap to build boats in chicken coops. Labor costs and environmental costs eventually drove out the boat builders, the price got too high. This is happening in parts of China now, at a rapid rate, as it happened in the UK in the early 20th century.

 

The only response, for a business is to change geography or control costs though a close "relationship" with the government, something that is generally illegal in the US. For a company, this works, for the labor pool, not so great. My guess is that China will have a labor cost advantage until its labor population can establish its own "relationship" with the government, which we call democracy here in the US. Then the true environmental costs, along with various other costs, will be carried by the businesses and prices will rise quickly. (as they are now) I'm guessing that'll take 10 to 20 more years.

 

BV

 

Very interesting commentary Beau. I'm guessing the rough timeframe for your Santa Cruz example was, oh mid-'70s?

 

Your thoughts on relationships with the government are intruinging, and quite real. Building this with the Chinese government is very, very challenging though (you already know this, by the sounds of things) unless you are aligned with and contributing to their larger macro-economic agendas, many of which are focused on improving China overall - both for its people and for its global rise in economic stature.

 

Unfortunately, building racing/cruising yachts/power boats doesn't fit into any of the larger macro-economic focal "buckets" most of which include: modernizing their banking/financial systems; dramatically raising health-care and education standards; nationalizing rail/transport systems; while overall trying to reduce/penalizecorruption and dealing with urban congestion. Telecoms modernization has already largely taken place.

 

China's government (and its regulatory policy) is so selfishly biased towards profit/cash-flows ending up in Chinese hands that it makes FDI a real challenege. The idea of making squillions from the massively expanding middle/upper classes in China has proven to be a fallacy in many industries with the price of gaining entry and traction very, very high (think GE and locomotive engine technology here, as an excellent example).

 

The only thing that will make yacht-nuilding viable in the long term in China, in my opinion, is through the ongoing/expanding local consumption of luxury items from those massively expanding middle/upper classes. A yacht is just one of many "tick-in-a-box" that newly wealthy Chinese nationals must have. This is driven very much by an "out-do-my-neighbor" mentality unfortunately, as this will end up in hundreds upon hundreds of boats sitting rotting in marinas.

 

It's amazing how rapidly - and visibly - the consumption behavior has changed in China in even barely 5 years. In mid-2000s I struggled to see any real diversity of European cars on the roads in Beijing (except for the ton of Volkswagen Santanas that were built locally). Then came the locally made Buicks (now largely disappearing) and then the Audis and now Mercs, BMWs, Volvos etc, which can be seen everywhere now. But more notable is the sudden arrival of Porsches, Ferraris, Jaguars, Hummers, Aston Martins, Maseratis and so on in the past 5 years...and, sadly, the almost total disappearance of bicycles. Incredible.

 

But now I am rambling...great discussion though!

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yeah it is seawolf - the one and only version of this yacht thus far.

 

Lutra are the designers

 

Luctor are the builders - or the "brand" or managers of the builders.

 

Would be an awesome boat if they can make a few alterations to target IRC even more. No need for full carbon etc... target weight of maybe 4500-4800 instead of 4200.

 

It would be great if they pop these out for a decent price. Build cost in europe was probably about EURO 250k - 350k but with Chinese labour and less carbon I reckon that could be as low as £120k... maybe lower...

 

Sale price of £220k ex sails & electronics... bargain! they'd sell lot hot cakes.

 

Labour on the China Eastern seaboard (i.e. where boats are being built) ins't exactly that cheap anymore (compared to even only 5 years ago).

 

Foxconn (Apple component mfg'r) has started moving factories to Central China as they simply cannot meet their margin targets anymore with rapidly rising S. China labour costs.

 

China is a market of many massive markets (or city clusters...eg: Pearl RIver Delta) with highly varied industries driving each (eg: Shanghai & surrounding = banking + automotive...Shenzhen & surrounding = clothing/fashion/electronics mfg). Remember...China has 150 cities with >1,000,000 population.

 

Point being, while it is indeed cheaper to built yachts in China, than in N America/Europe, for now, this will not last for much longer. At least quality yacht building (like McConaghy China) cannot be considered notably cheaper for much longer unless they move their facility to the interior and keep training cheaper, local hires.

 

Fascinating to watch the sheer pace of it all. Very frustrating for business. A nightmare market in which to recruit (voice of experience here).

 

A good friend once said: "The free flow of capital ultimately ruins all great markets." This will prove true in China soon, and is just starting in Viet Nam. Opening their economies to massive capital in-flows will drive up production but also prices. For a time, the fact that prices don't rise as fast as production gives the target country a competitive advantage, but in time (and in the case of China it's not much longer) the prices will catch up.

 

There is a micro example here in Santa Cruz where it used to be really cheap to build boats in chicken coops. Labor costs and environmental costs eventually drove out the boat builders, the price got too high. This is happening in parts of China now, at a rapid rate, as it happened in the UK in the early 20th century.

 

The only response, for a business is to change geography or control costs though a close "relationship" with the government, something that is generally illegal in the US. For a company, this works, for the labor pool, not so great. My guess is that China will have a labor cost advantage until its labor population can establish its own "relationship" with the government, which we call democracy here in the US. Then the true environmental costs, along with various other costs, will be carried by the businesses and prices will rise quickly. (as they are now) I'm guessing that'll take 10 to 20 more years.

 

BV

 

Very interesting commentary Beau. I'm guessing the rough timeframe for your Santa Cruz example was, oh mid-'70s?

 

Your thoughts on relationships with the government are intruinging, and quite real. Building this with the Chinese government is very, very challenging though (you already know this, by the sounds of things) unless you are aligned with and contributing to their larger macro-economic agendas, many of which are focused on improving China overall - both for its people and for its global rise in economic stature.

 

Unfortunately, building racing/cruising yachts/power boats doesn't fit into any of the larger macro-economic focal "buckets" most of which include: modernizing their banking/financial systems; dramatically raising health-care and education standards; nationalizing rail/transport systems; while overall trying to reduce/penalizecorruption and dealing with urban congestion. Telecoms modernization has already largely taken place.

 

China's government (and its regulatory policy) is so selfishly biased towards profit/cash-flows ending up in Chinese hands that it makes FDI a real challenege. The idea of making squillions from the massively expanding middle/upper classes in China has proven to be a fallacy in many industries with the price of gaining entry and traction very, very high (think GE and locomotive engine technology here, as an excellent example).

 

The only thing that will make yacht-nuilding viable in the long term in China, in my opinion, is through the ongoing/expanding local consumption of luxury items from those massively expanding middle/upper classes. A yacht is just one of many "tick-in-a-box" that newly wealthy Chinese nationals must have. This is driven very much by an "out-do-my-neighbor" mentality unfortunately, as this will end up in hundreds upon hundreds of boats sitting rotting in marinas.

 

It's amazing how rapidly - and visibly - the consumption behavior has changed in China in even barely 5 years. In mid-2000s I struggled to see any real diversity of European cars on the roads in Beijing (except for the ton of Volkswagen Santanas that were built locally). Then came the locally made Buicks (now largely disappearing) and then the Audis and now Mercs, BMWs, Volvos etc, which can be seen everywhere now. But more notable is the sudden arrival of Porsches, Ferraris, Jaguars, Hummers, Aston Martins, Maseratis and so on in the past 5 years...and, sadly, the almost total disappearance of bicycles. Incredible.

 

But now I am rambling...great discussion though!

 

And yet the Chinese still prefer to import fast ferries (sometimes fifteen at a time) from the world's largest fast ferry builder, Austal, which makes you wonder if they have the technology to go it alone or prefer to buy something they know will work.

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yeah it is seawolf - the one and only version of this yacht thus far.

 

Lutra are the designers

 

Luctor are the builders - or the "brand" or managers of the builders.

 

Would be an awesome boat if they can make a few alterations to target IRC even more. No need for full carbon etc... target weight of maybe 4500-4800 instead of 4200.

 

It would be great if they pop these out for a decent price. Build cost in europe was probably about EURO 250k - 350k but with Chinese labour and less carbon I reckon that could be as low as £120k... maybe lower...

 

Sale price of £220k ex sails & electronics... bargain! they'd sell lot hot cakes.

 

Labour on the China Eastern seaboard (i.e. where boats are being built) ins't exactly that cheap anymore (compared to even only 5 years ago).

 

Foxconn (Apple component mfg'r) has started moving factories to Central China as they simply cannot meet their margin targets anymore with rapidly rising S. China labour costs.

 

China is a market of many massive markets (or city clusters...eg: Pearl RIver Delta) with highly varied industries driving each (eg: Shanghai & surrounding = banking + automotive...Shenzhen & surrounding = clothing/fashion/electronics mfg). Remember...China has 150 cities with >1,000,000 population.

 

Point being, while it is indeed cheaper to built yachts in China, than in N America/Europe, for now, this will not last for much longer. At least quality yacht building (like McConaghy China) cannot be considered notably cheaper for much longer unless they move their facility to the interior and keep training cheaper, local hires.

 

Fascinating to watch the sheer pace of it all. Very frustrating for business. A nightmare market in which to recruit (voice of experience here).

 

A good friend once said: "The free flow of capital ultimately ruins all great markets." This will prove true in China soon, and is just starting in Viet Nam. Opening their economies to massive capital in-flows will drive up production but also prices. For a time, the fact that prices don't rise as fast as production gives the target country a competitive advantage, but in time (and in the case of China it's not much longer) the prices will catch up.

 

There is a micro example here in Santa Cruz where it used to be really cheap to build boats in chicken coops. Labor costs and environmental costs eventually drove out the boat builders, the price got too high. This is happening in parts of China now, at a rapid rate, as it happened in the UK in the early 20th century.

 

The only response, for a business is to change geography or control costs though a close "relationship" with the government, something that is generally illegal in the US. For a company, this works, for the labor pool, not so great. My guess is that China will have a labor cost advantage until its labor population can establish its own "relationship" with the government, which we call democracy here in the US. Then the true environmental costs, along with various other costs, will be carried by the businesses and prices will rise quickly. (as they are now) I'm guessing that'll take 10 to 20 more years.

 

BV

 

Very interesting commentary Beau. I'm guessing the rough timeframe for your Santa Cruz example was, oh mid-'70s?

 

Your thoughts on relationships with the government are intruinging, and quite real. Building this with the Chinese government is very, very challenging though (you already know this, by the sounds of things) unless you are aligned with and contributing to their larger macro-economic agendas, many of which are focused on improving China overall - both for its people and for its global rise in economic stature.

 

Unfortunately, building racing/cruising yachts/power boats doesn't fit into any of the larger macro-economic focal "buckets" most of which include: modernizing their banking/financial systems; dramatically raising health-care and education standards; nationalizing rail/transport systems; while overall trying to reduce/penalizecorruption and dealing with urban congestion. Telecoms modernization has already largely taken place.

 

China's government (and its regulatory policy) is so selfishly biased towards profit/cash-flows ending up in Chinese hands that it makes FDI a real challenege. The idea of making squillions from the massively expanding middle/upper classes in China has proven to be a fallacy in many industries with the price of gaining entry and traction very, very high (think GE and locomotive engine technology here, as an excellent example).

 

The only thing that will make yacht-nuilding viable in the long term in China, in my opinion, is through the ongoing/expanding local consumption of luxury items from those massively expanding middle/upper classes. A yacht is just one of many "tick-in-a-box" that newly wealthy Chinese nationals must have. This is driven very much by an "out-do-my-neighbor" mentality unfortunately, as this will end up in hundreds upon hundreds of boats sitting rotting in marinas.

 

It's amazing how rapidly - and visibly - the consumption behavior has changed in China in even barely 5 years. In mid-2000s I struggled to see any real diversity of European cars on the roads in Beijing (except for the ton of Volkswagen Santanas that were built locally). Then came the locally made Buicks (now largely disappearing) and then the Audis and now Mercs, BMWs, Volvos etc, which can be seen everywhere now. But more notable is the sudden arrival of Porsches, Ferraris, Jaguars, Hummers, Aston Martins, Maseratis and so on in the past 5 years...and, sadly, the almost total disappearance of bicycles. Incredible.

 

But now I am rambling...great discussion though!

 

And yet the Chinese still prefer to import fast ferries (sometimes fifteen at a time) from the world's largest fast ferry builder, Austal, which makes you wonder if they have the technology to go it alone or prefer to buy something they know will work.

 

Hmmm...didn't know that. They are, however, building their own high-speed rail network and trains. But, and it's a BIG but, these aren't going so smoothly in early operations. See why here *gulp*!!

 

_54236304_012517649-1.jpg

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The tooling has not been sold to China. We still have it in The Netherlands. The 42 has had some good races in IRC and is now more optimized that way and has a different setup than she had at the launch. She raced in Key West with a Corinthean crew last year and she is faster than a Ker 40, Farr 400 or anything in that segment. That obviously comes with a rating penalty, but she is defintely able to compensate that penalty when sailed well. Seeing the HPR rule developing in the US I'm convinced she will be very competitive under that rule. We are not involved in boat building anymore, but the whole project including female tooling, SP/Gurit engineering, detailed drawings, etc. is ready to build another one. We even have drawings available for an Open 40 or canting keel version. She is an absolute rocket. So if anybody is interested you can send me a message if you want to take over this turn-key project. Serious offers are welcome. Please consider this is not just a nice little boat building project and you need to know what you are doing. This is a top notch product that requires a lot of experience and know-how.

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The 42 has had some good races in IRC and is now more optimized that way and has a different setup than she had at the launch. She raced in Key West with a Corinthean crew last year and she is faster than a Ker 40, Farr 400 or anything in that segment.

If they were using an entirely pro crew would they have won?

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Jort, not sure how you can compare speed between Big Booty and the Ker 40 considering they have not (to my knowledge) ever been on the same racecourse at the same time and each raced at key west on two different years.

 

Big Booty was no faster downwind than the MC38 in the HPR division in 2012. They often had a slight edge upwind due to waterline length and a better upwind hullform.

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The tooling has not been sold to China. We still have it in The Netherlands. The 42 has had some good races in IRC and is now more optimized that way and has a different setup than she had at the launch. She raced in Key West with a Corinthean crew last year and she is faster than a Ker 40, Farr 400 or anything in that segment. That obviously comes with a rating penalty, but she is defintely able to compensate that penalty when sailed well. Seeing the HPR rule developing in the US I'm convinced she will be very competitive under that rule. We are not involved in boat building anymore, but the whole project including female tooling, SP/Gurit engineering, detailed drawings, etc. is ready to build another one. We even have drawings available for an Open 40 or canting keel version. She is an absolute rocket. So if anybody is interested you can send me a message if you want to take over this turn-key project. Serious offers are welcome. Please consider this is not just a nice little boat building project and you need to know what you are doing. This is a top notch product that requires a lot of experience and know-how.

 

 

The tooling has not been sold to China. We still have it in The Netherlands. The 42 has had some good races in IRC and is now more optimized that way and has a different setup than she had at the launch. She raced in Key West with a Corinthean crew last year and she is faster than a Ker 40, Farr 400 or anything in that segment. That obviously comes with a rating penalty, but she is defintely able to compensate that penalty when sailed well. Seeing the HPR rule developing in the US I'm convinced she will be very competitive under that rule. We are not involved in boat building anymore, but the whole project including female tooling, SP/Gurit engineering, detailed drawings, etc. is ready to build another one. We even have drawings available for an Open 40 or canting keel version. She is an absolute rocket. So if anybody is interested you can send me a message if you want to take over this turn-key project. Serious offers are welcome. Please consider this is not just a nice little boat building project and you need to know what you are doing. This is a top notch product that requires a lot of experience and know-how.

I am not sure where you got the information regarding Key West last year......the Lutra 42 was signed up for the event but did not come! I can confirm what Left Hook has said - the Lutra 42 and the Ker 40 have not ever raced each other anywhere in the USA. When you discuss the 40 ish foot "segment" please know that the Carkeek 40's are included and I would be very surprised if the Lutra is capable of keeping up around the race track. We ( the ker 40) can stick with them upwind in over 13 kts of breeze but they leave us downwind. In under13 kts of breeze they are quicker uphill as well.

 

I hope you find someone to sell your molds to, and I suspect that the quality of the molds and engineering is top notch, but claiming the Lutra 42 is as fast or faster than all of the 40 footers is disingenuous, and unfounded in actual sailing here in the US.

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Wow are these still about?

 

Jort - You were trying to give these away at one stage after the Chinese buyers fell through right?

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