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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
ryley

Dibley K250 Carbon

70 posts in this topic

Carbon is for sale again in the classifieds, and I'm having a really hard time finding any results for this boat. It seems as if people buy it, sail it for a short while, then mothball it. What's the go? Is it too technical, too fast, poorly rated, what's the deal? It looks really damn good, and I'm curious to hear the full story.

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Carbon is for sale again in the classifieds, and I'm having a really hard time finding any results for this boat. It seems as if people buy it, sail it for a short while, then mothball it. What's the go? Is it too technical, too fast, poorly rated, what's the deal? It looks really damn good, and I'm curious to hear the full story.

At 950kg its definitely not the lightest 7m sporty

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Yeah, well, overall weight isn't always the whole story, is it? I mean, my Elliott 770 is pretty beefy for 7.7m at around 2800 lbs, but we still manage to do pretty well. It still doesn't explain why it never seems to get raced - it's got to be fast, regardless of the 950kg, so is it misrated? too 'technical' to sail? too expensive to campaign? Really just curious - still happy with my E - but it's still a pretty intriguing boat.

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Looks interesting. What's the backstory?

 

Originally great older-generation NZ SB by Kevin Dibley - a great designer.

 

Carbon was imported by some more-or-less non-sailing American who wanted to produce some fugly pocket cruisers - just shockers (use the search function) - that he commissioned from Dibley. This didn't go anywhere - I believe there is semi-finished prototype somewhere.

 

IMPORTANT: every other Dibley design, including Carbon, outside of this commission are just sweet, well-rounded designs.

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Looks interesting. What's the backstory?

 

Originally great older-generation NZ SB by Kevin Dibley - a great designer.

 

Carbon was imported by some more-or-less non-sailing American who wanted to produce some fugly pocket cruisers - just shockers (use the search function) - that he commissioned from Dibley. This didn't go anywhere - I believe there is semi-finished prototype somewhere.

 

IMPORTANT: every other Dibley design, including Carbon, outside of this commission are just sweet, well-rounded designs.

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SAILED ON HER HEAPS IN NZ. BOTH WHEN NEW AND ALSO DID LAST COASTAL TRIP HERE ON HER PRIOR TO HER MOVE TO THE STATES. 120nm 40knots BREEZE 2 HANDED. SHE IS A VERY NICE BOAT TO SAIL AND REWARDS WITH GREAT PACE. NEEDS TO BE SAILED LIKE A SKIFF. IF FREIGHT RATES WERENT SO STEEP WOULD LOOK SERIOUSLY ABOUT BRINGING HRER BACK TO NZ AS SHE IS A GOOD HABOUR AND COASTAL RACE BOAT.

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Carbon is a beautiful fast boat. It is worth every penny. Somebody needs to loan me the price and gas money. I promise to deliver it to you in a couple years.........

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Hi all,

Interesting history, with Carbon,

In NZ, she was launched as a fixed keel, Coastal Racing sportboat. Not around the buoy's, but Coastal. She was designed specifically for a couple on the north tip of New Zealand. She was light, with moulded in Wings and beautifully built by Craig Partridge Boatbuilders who ent on to build the Davidson 35 'Jive Talkin' along with many others.

She was then sold to an Aucklander who had some fun with her before business took over and she wwas sold on to Roger Rushton in Tauranga who raced her for a lot of years.

Then Dibley Marine got introduced to an American that wanted to revolutionise the cruising trailer sailor market so commisioned us to design the K280 which was going to be built in China. A very strict brief and we folllowed accordingly, but it all fell apart due to extremely shoddy build practices, greed and bad onsite project management.

Somehow, the first yacht was actually shipped to the USA and it was a crime she wasn't cut up and scrapped as she was so overweight badly built.

During that time the oiwner of Kiwi Boatworks bought Carbon and asked us to design a lift keel and get her road trailerable, which we did. He also commissioned us to do some preliminary work on a new version which would be called the K250. 'Carbon' is not a K250. She is a Dibley 250 (or in NZ, a Dibley 750 for being 7.5 metres long]

Anyways, when Kiwi Boatworks ceased to exist, Carbon was sold and the current owner, Scot, is only selling her as he suffered some work injury and won't get the most out of her.

 

Carbon is a joy to sail. Finger tipped control. Easy. She has been sailing in 45 knots up the East Coast of the Coromandel Peninsula which, if anyone knows, can be an atrocious piece of water. During that time, she was short handed, and the biggest issue was slowing her down with just the jib up.

I have seen her peak at 25 knots just before we had to douse the gennaker due to a fast approached breakwater.

 

Like Canter 38, if I could, I would get her back down here in a beat.

In regards to weight, always be aware when comparing, whether you are taking about lightship [empty] or racing mode [with crew etc...]

There is a vast difference., and so many deskigners push the tow weight as opposed to the racing weight as the numbers sound so much better.

With that in mind, however, this yacht is not a skiff or modern sportsboat, but she has certainly beaten a lot of the designs mentioned above, on line.

 

Hope that clears up a little on the history.

Let me know where she ends up, if anyone hears.

Cheers

Kevin

 

 

http://www.dibleymarine.com/sail/sail/k250.html

post-2131-013900800 1317671920_thumb.jpg

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Ah, really great backstory. Thanks for that.

 

I'm imagining a pocket sized "Cone" at this point. Go the Cone!

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love that boat Carbon!!! if we get SMS going here that would be a great boat for the NW

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Thanks Dibley - I appreciate the story.

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Someone said cone.

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Someone said cone.

 

Teaky, your people need you.

Teaky get over here

 

Kevin, great looking boat and extraordinarily seaworthy if she'll handle 45 knots in coastal waters. Interesting story. Can I ask the "obvious" question - how do you think she'd have fared in the Chi-Mac storm this year - main down ? bare poles ?

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Someone said cone.

 

Teaky, your people need you.

Teaky get over here

 

Kevin, great looking boat and extraordinarily seaworthy if she'll handle 45 knots in coastal waters. Interesting story. Can I ask the "obvious" question - how do you think she'd have fared in the Chi-Mac storm this year - main down ? bare poles ?

 

tough question as so many factors are involved..... personally, I wouldn't want to be out there in any thing smaller than a 100-footer... I did the 1993 Sydney Hobart on Swuzzlebubble9 which ended up doing a 360-degree roll, with a stop half way through for about 2 minutes... And our crew were top notch, and we would never have thought before hand it could happen. But with two southerly weather bombs combine, in the shallow Bass Straight, nothing can be guaranteed....

I would imagine the ame could be said for the Chi-Mac storm.....

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This looks like a sweet boat.

 

I've always wondered what the killer SB would look like that can survive in The Gorge. Is this it?

 

I'm invested already. This looks cool though.

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Sold to the Pacific Northwest of the USA

A perfect fit. A good home.

 

Enjoy.

Kevin

post-2131-074854100 1318920856_thumb.jpg

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Dibley mate what every happened to the 26 ya did that was in Queensland

cheers

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sure would be fun to see Carbon at next year's Double Dam on the Columbia.

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Dibley mate what every happened to the 26 ya did that was in Queensland

cheers

 

Hey 'Cajunkiwi',

First of all, Go the AB's this weekened. Need all the Kiwi (expat's expecially) support out there. (Rugby World Cup for those that aren't in the know)

 

It's interesting when I decide to label our designs as I have been torn between metric and imperial measurements.

The USA is the only place that still uses Imperial (as far as I know) yet it is still a common way (or at least 50/50) of describing lengths of yachts, world wide.

Maybe it just sounds longer than the Metric equivalent.

The Dibley 26 (Dibley 8000 (mm) in Australia/New Zealand)is called 'Out of the Blue' and as far as I know, is still owned by Frank and Wendy Brace. I was told that her orginal boatbuilder, Shayne Young (pictured), recently did a once over on her to get her back up to new, but that was third-hand rumour. If she had this done, then I have no doubt she will be 'mint' as Shayne as a stickler for detail.

 

She was designed a quite a few years after our Dibley 8 'Supergroove' which did so well in the NZ Trailer Yacht Scene. 'Out of the Blue' was a real step up on 'Supergrooves' success, but she was also designed on a very detailed design brief from her owner which always makes the design process enjoyable and challenging.

post-2131-071356900 1318968933_thumb.jpg

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Yes it would!

 

Can you tell us what town it is headed to?

 

Hi 'Barnone'

I believe Bainbridge Island, Puget Sound.

 

There is only one thing left to do:, 'A 2011 version' :D

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Very nice. I must say I have some lust going for this boat. That price was in striking range.

 

I'm all for the 2011 version but am scared of what the price would be.

 

that last photo was the best one yet. Really shows what she looks like, and moving well in not a lot of breeze.

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Yes it would!

 

Can you tell us what town it is headed to?

 

Hi 'Barnone'

I believe Bainbridge Island, Puget Sound.

 

There is only one thing left to do:, 'A 2011 version' :D

ok Kev, what changes would you recommend in the 2011 version,

 

And if the mighty All Blacks play the way they did last weekend...the French are in trouble! But I have heard and sad to say seen it all before, don't forget 1999 or 2007, now is the time to right those wrongs, I think Richies boys will hit them hard and then up the antie in the second half this go around! Go the All Blacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I was wondering the same thing. Any subtle diferences from the 7? I still look at archived drawings for the wee beastie from time to time.

Go the All Blacks! It is tough for a Yank to understand a game that doesn't have rest periods for fatties all the time though.....

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I was wondering the same thing. Any subtle diferences from the 7? I still look at archived drawings for the wee beastie from time to time.

Go the All Blacks! It is tough for a Yank to understand a game that doesn't have rest periods for fatties all the time though.....

get to the K&K in Greenlake just north of Seattle for kick off and I am sure you will get an education very quickly!

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ok Kev, what changes would you recommend in the 2011 version,

 

And if the mighty All Blacks play the way they did last weekend...the French are in trouble! But I have heard and sad to say seen it all before, don't forget 1999 or 2007, now is the time to right those wrongs, I think Richies boys will hit them hard and then up the antie in the second half this go around! Go the All Blacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Lowcamaro and Timber; The main changes would be in the aft sections and appendages. When we designed Carbon, as well as the Dibley 230 for 'Timber', we didn't have use of the VPP's and other software that have made changes and experimentations so much easier than before. We have taken a few jumps in performance since those days, without losing the all round performance that our yachts are known for.

I guess another way of describing it is that previously we relied a lot on 'gut feel'. Now we combine that 'feel' with a solid scientific foundation.

Still.... true yacht design is a combination of science and art.

I am sure BobP would concur with that one..

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Carbon has finally made to Bainbridge Island, WA.

Looks great.

I've got some work to do to get it ready for spring.

Bottom paint, lights etc.

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Any plans for Whidbey Island 2012 race week?

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Hello all,

We've raced Carbon in several local races and had a great time.

I wanted to buy a hot rod race boat to experience what one would be like before I got too old to race.

As the season is wearing on I'm finding myself not having as much energy as is needed to race twice a week like I have the last couple years.

I'm 61 and my work load has been the busiest it's ever been.

I have very mixed feeling about putting it up for sale.

I spent countless hours refurbishing the boat as it had been pretty neglected, at least for my taste.

You probably would not have known to look at it, but after 30 years of woodwork, boat building and refurbishing boats it needed a fair amount of attention in my mind.

 

I added lots of new hardware, made many repairs and feel like we have given it a full tune up.

The thing looks great and flies!

 

It's easy to reach and run with or faster than wind speed. But it does take at least two people that know what they are doing to sail it effectively.

Nothing new, crew is everything but not easy to get.

 

I'm still planning on racing it until it sells and could easily change my mind about selling it.

I've bought and sold way too many boats to count so it's not a big deal to try different ones out and move from one to another.

 

I just picked up a mast head s-sail for the local course where the wind tends to run dead down the course. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I got a lot of help from local racers deciding on the size and shape. It's huge!

 

Over the past few months, Kevin the designer and several local racers have been a huge help with learning how to sail this beast.

 

Glad to talk more about Carbon...............Thanks, John

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Timber, I see that the boat just went back on the market today.

http://sailingtexas....ibley25101.html

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I mentioned that I had picked up an s-sail in my last post.

The wind runs dead down the course on one of the courses that we race on once a week.

We won our first Wednesday night race using it. The idea that we could sail a bit deeper proved to be successful.

Though the conditions were not the best for this boat at about 10 kts of wind.

 

It was especially fun to handily beat a J100. I understand that these may not be the fastest boats but it was still great fun.

It's been a huge learning experience figuring out how to sail this boat.

Trying to keep it as close to top speed to compete with other boats with the same rating, 93 PHRF, is a challenge. I made a couple of adjustments Wed night that I think made a difference.

The first one was to flatten the main out a bit more than we had been doing even in light air.

The whole issue of draft has to be experimented with. We have quite a bit of mast bend but we're not sure if it's as much as we need. So I tried taking some of the draft out and making the main into more of a blade than having a few wrinkles at the front.

Instead of the J100 slowly catching us we continued to pull away from them in the same conditions.

 

So after that great Wed night race I get a response from my ad to sell and my first thought was I can't sell this thing!

We'll see. Nothing like a beautiful evening on Puget Sound and a win to change your outlook.

 

John

Carbon

 

 

 

Hello all,

We've raced Carbon in several local races and had a great time.

I wanted to buy a hot rod race boat to experience what one would be like before I got too old to race.

As the season is wearing on I'm finding myself not having as much energy as is needed to race twice a week like I have the last couple years.

I'm 61 and my work load has been the busiest it's ever been.

I have very mixed feeling about putting it up for sale.

I spent countless hours refurbishing the boat as it had been pretty neglected, at least for my taste.

You probably would not have known to look at it, but after 30 years of woodwork, boat building and refurbishing boats it needed a fair amount of attention in my mind.

 

I added lots of new hardware, made many repairs and feel like we have given it a full tune up.

The thing looks great and flies!

 

It's easy to reach and run with or faster than wind speed. But it does take at least two people that know what they are doing to sail it effectively.

Nothing new, crew is everything but not easy to get.

 

I'm still planning on racing it until it sells and could easily change my mind about selling it.

I've bought and sold way too many boats to count so it's not a big deal to try different ones out and move from one to another.

 

I just picked up a mast head s-sail for the local course where the wind tends to run dead down the course. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

I got a lot of help from local racers deciding on the size and shape. It's huge!

 

Over the past few months, Kevin the designer and several local racers have been a huge help with learning how to sail this beast.

 

Glad to talk more about Carbon...............Thanks, John

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I mentioned that I had picked up an s-sail in my last post.

The wind runs dead down the course on one of the courses that we race on once a week.

We won our first Wednesday night race using it. The idea that we could sail a bit deeper proved to be successful.

Though the conditions were not the best for this boat at about 10 kts of wind.

 

It was especially fun to handily beat a J100. I understand that these may not be the fastest boats but it was still great fun.

It's been a huge learning experience figuring out how to sail this boat.

Trying to keep it as close to top speed to compete with other boats with the same rating, 93 PHRF, is a challenge. I made a couple of adjustments Wed night that I think made a difference.

93 rating? Are you kidding?

And why are you trying to sail DDW in a sportboat?

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"93 rating? Are you kidding me"?

Maybe you could clarify this comment?

I'm assuming you think it's eaither too low or two high.

 

I didn't say that we wanted to sail dead down wind, I said that on our weekly race course the wind blows dead down the course.

I wanted to sail a "bit" deeper as sailing with the a-sail makes us sail too far off the course.

 

If it's blowing 12-14+ then the a-sail is effective.

In Puget Sound we get a lot of evenings where it's blowing 6-10 kts.

 

Carbon is actually not considered a sport boat but an off shore racer.

 

It's strength is above 12-14 kts of wind primarily reaching with or without the a-sail.

 

It's weakness is running in 6-8 kts of wind or less.

Better hard to windward.

 

Once the wind hits 10-12 to windward it's pretty fast as long as you have four or five crew for weight.

 

With a boat that planes, using the s-sail, we can sail deeper by way of bringing the pole back a bit,

but we stil heat it up by sailing a bit higher. The end result is a better VMG.

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Seems pretty reasonable to me. Roughly same size as Melges 24 but with infinitely less one-design development.

 

93 seems slow for that boat.

Seems like an all carbon, purpose built race boat shouldn't be J105 slow.

Then again, I don't see it listed on the PHRF roster...

http://phrf.intransp...ster 081612.xls

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Carbon Update:

Last year I mentioned that I was worn out and frustrated with sailing my new sport boat, as the summer wore on, I had a bit lighter work load and got some great help in learning much more about how to sail these sport boats. I had been told several times I'd have to learn how to sail all over again. Not only did that prove to be true, but as a novice racer the learning curve has been daunting!

 

About midsummer we had the great pleasure of getting a firsthand lesson from the local owner of Quantum sails in Seattle, Dan Kaseler. It was an incredible experience in tuning the boat, sailing tips and the athleticism needed to push her faster. Right away Dan tightened up the main all around and pointed out that it had too much draft built into it. Then he used the windward jib sheet as an in hauler making the boat point much higher. Then he instructed me how to point higher, alternating between footing and pointing.

 

Running, Dan ran the a-sail sheets like an NFL linebacker, elbows and arms flying in all directions. At one point I had to move back to keep from getting constantly elbowed! This was where he really demonstrated the athletics needed to fly the huge a-sail, 830 sf. We actually tore a stanchion out of the deck there was so much strain on everything. Dan guided us down the course, he and I talking the whole way when to heat up and turn down.We had a great time and I’ve had the great pleasure of getting Dan’s assistance since that race day last year. Needless to say we abandoned the symmetrical spinnaker for good.

 

So what do you do when you are undecided about selling a boat? Dump more money into it!

 

Every time we came back in from sailing last year the jib had a new hole in it the size of your fist. So we bought a new Quantum jib and had Dan re-cut the main to flatten it out. As it is we’ll be looking for a new flat top main from him for next year.

We installed a new Selden jib furler, excellent with only a 5/8" wide foil and GX 10 spinnaker furler. That is a whole lesson in it'self!

Made several more modifications and upgrades to the boat. The traveler sucked! Lines kept getting tangled as rigging was installed wrong. I installed a windward sheeting car and re did all the rigging for it. The jaws on the car needed to be a bit higher to make it easy to run so we raised the track up about six inches. I used fiberglass reinforced plastic. Cut drain holes and made it as light as possible. While we were doing that we completely stripped the cockpit of everything and repainted it with new nonskid. It looks awesome. (Pic below.) The whole boat now has just about been refurbished.

 

I went into this year’s racing season feeling a bit more confident. The boat is way faster without the fist size holes in the jib and a new jib to boot! Who would have guessed? The main seems to be better. We’ve had a really fun season. I’ve had a pretty consistent crew which has helped a lot. And we keep learning more every week.

 

Kevin Dibley, the designer of Carbon has been a constant help in advising us. Kevin has been a wealth of information but most of all he has been so supportive of all the different things we’ve tried. Kevin continues to guide me along as we discover more nuances to getting Carbon to sail faster.

 

Before this season I came up with the bright idea of selling advertising on the side of the boat. (Always thinking of the business angle.) My wife said that I was crazy and that no one would ever want to do this. Within three days I’d sold out the ad space. With Kevin’s beautiful design of Carbon, it attracts a lot of attention. The boat looks fast and cool. It did help that all of the advertisers are my friends and the biggest ad is for a company who’s owner is from NZ. (Carbon was custom built in NZ.) You can see Carbon at this year’s launch and the ads here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151642664170336&set=a.342676255335.196915.294490505335&type=1&theater

 

And ultra light air race in Port Orchard. Great folks and an awesome race group! They really made us feel at home.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wscyc/9059295580/in/set-72157634163812760

(Kevin spotted that we needed to get our weight forward more.)

So that is about it for this season……. John

 

 

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Hey John (UHMW),
Nice plug, thank you.

Having problems downloading photos for you as well, so easier to direct people to our Facebook page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dibley-Marine-Ltd-Yacht-Designers/294490505335

 

A good photo of Carbon 2013 is up and loaded.

Keep up the great work!

Cheers

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What's it rate?

too much, I'm sure!

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Carbon - 3rd Year Wrap Up:

 

The first year I raced Carbon it was agonizing at times. I was still new to sailboat racing, trying to figure out a new sport boat, my physical work load and being 62 made it all daunting much of the time. I couldn't get the performance out of her and I was ready to sell her by mid season.

But then I luckily got a lesson from Dan Kaseler at Quantum sails and he helped turn things around.

I wrote about most of this earlier up the thread.

The biggest changes that Dan employed right away were using the windward jib sheets as in haulers to be able to sail higher, showing me how to feather in heavy wind and getting a better feel for the A-sail running. We started winning races.

 

The second season we were able to build on our first. We won a couple of race series and did well every week when we didn't have some kind of blow out of a problem. Small sport boats are light and powerful, but they don't coast. If you have a problem you just come to a screeching halt.

We had a lot of light air racing this season and got some great lessons from my friend Mark, an ex-Olympic level Finn sailor.

 

Over the winter before this last season I made a ton of modifications to the boat.

I added a hatch to launch the a-sail on it's furler, added track and cars for the jib in haulers, a mast mounted instrument dash panel including a GPS speedo, and to top it all off a new Quantum main sail. I added some inserts to the sides of the cock pit to hold the spin sheets when not in use and an awesome custom built seal for the bow sprit.

We had been getting tons of water in through the sprit opening in heavy weather.

My friend Doug and I spent quite a while looking at different options. What we came up with was an elongated cone that slipped over the front of the pole so when you pulled the pole in it would slide easily into it's opening and seal it up.

 

I'm a custom furniture builder by trade so fabricating the cone wasn't especially difficult. It did take quite a bit of time but it was fun. I started by cutting out the shape from closed cell foam, then applied epoxy and carbon fiber cloth, Bondo, primer and paint. And then re-painted the whole pole with Awlgrip. I also installed a very strong "U" bolt at the end of the pole for the a-sail furler as you need a very strong fixed point that won't spin at all when furling.

 

So for the third season we were really much more prepared. We continued to do great in the Wednesday evening beer can racing, but instead of going back over to Port Orchard where we had so much fun with such great guys, we opted to go to the Seattle Thursday Night Racing Series.

 

Now this was a real anomaly! The racing there is much more like stock car racing than sanctioned sailboat racing, more of a free-for-all where about anything goes. It took us a couple weeks to figure out that many of the biggest boats were jumping the start by as much as a half a minute or more! Lots of the boats in that series are monsters, ex-Americas Cup boat, 60 footers, 50 footers on down and it's straight up racing. We would be in the midst of 40 boats and feel like we were in a vacuum! 60 to 70 boats overall on a tight buoy racing course. At the start of one races the huge AC boat, looking like it was throwing all caution aside, threaded the needle between about eight boats including us.

 

We started to get the hang of it though. For one thing, being so small, we could hang out right at the start line and look behind us to see when the big boats were coming at us. Ignoring the start horn, as soon as they were baring down on us we would take off. It was still a melee though as those monsters would be pounding by us like locomotives. We would try all sorts of maneuvers to try to stay with them. At one mark in a race we took Carbon about 50 yards wide of the mark to get clear air and a deeper reach. We passed about 25 boats doing 11 knots, we were just screaming along in 15-18 kts of breeze. It was a blast!

 

We didn't get to use the kite much as most of the wind directions were beam reaches. The couple times we did, it was blowing 15-18 kts and we were just barely able to hold the high angle we were forced to follow. During one race there was a tour boat coming right up the course! (It is called the downtown series.) We were flying along on a beam reach right at him with the kite up, I couldn't sail one drop higher and to bare off meant going just where he needed to go to avoid the pack of boats coming at him. I said to my crew, screw him we're not changing course so he better move! He did.

 

It was wild time and we consistently finished in the top 8 to 12 spots, straight up racing, no corrected times. The first three races they didn't even record our finish we were such a small boat in that pack of monsters. I had to call race organizers the next few weeks and ask them to look for this dinky little boat coming across the finish with the huge ones.

 

The next sanctioned race we did we didn't do too well. It was light air and I learned another good lesson, we were over loaded with crew and I tried to go outside the box with too many chances that didn't work. I learned some good lessons.

 

Our last race of the season was a wonderful end to a great season. It was the traditional Around The Island Race (Bainbridge Island, WA)

The first couple times I raced in this one were dismal! Nothing went right.

But we felt pretty confident this time around. I knew two of the fastest boats pretty well and their great crews. My game plan going in was to just try to stay with them as much as I could and get some correction on them. They are light years ahead of me in experience but we knew we were sailing Carbon pretty well. My basic mind set was to just try not to get in the way of our boat. Keep it simple, go fast, head up the course and as my friend Mark has taught me, look at what the other boats are doing for clues.

We also had the last minute good fortune to have my friend Dan from Quantum come with us.

 

It was a perfect day for a sport boat! 6-8 kts of breeze for a very long downwind start.

We came off the start line barley able to hold the beam reach, actually slightly to windward, with our huge kite.

We had a good inside position and held the lead for the first hour or so. We had about a two and a half hour spinnaker run before we started to go windward!

A gorgeous day and that long run were incredibly fun.

 

As we came around the end of the island to windward the breeze continued to drop.

We had to fight our way up the passage in light air. Once we got far enough up the island and turned the corner to our overnight stop, the breeze kicked up some and we had a good finish for the first day. That night we found out that we had a corrected time of first for the first day!

The next day was a slog and the race was finished early. But overall we had done pretty well.

 

I've got a minimal amount of work to do on Carbon this winter.

One of the issues we need to address is, that when we installed the spinnaker furler, we also made the luff of the sail much more rounded because of the shortened length. I need the shorten the sail a bit.

Probably the biggest change is going to a smaller outboard. I could reduce the weight on the transom by about 20 lbs. by running a 3.5 hp. I'm sure many could ask what in the hell I was doing running a bigger engine, many have, but I'll leave that for now except for that just being inexperience on my part. Now though, I am looking more and more at lightening things up.

I'm hoping to paint the non-skid on the deck this season and have a handful of small items to get ready early for this next season.

 

I've made a YouTube slide show of some pics:

 

And a video shot by a friend. If you go forward to about 4:35 in this second video it shows us with our kite up:

 

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It sounds like you've had a great season, UHMW. Keep up the great work. It's your type of enthusiasm that is essentially why we all sail.

Carbon still has a soft spot in our design portfolio. One of our favourites.

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Thanks Kevin! (Dibley Marine)

It's really been fun getting Carbon back to as close to peak racing form as I can. It's been upgraded from stem to stern.

What seems so impressive is that this boat built in 1997 is so competitive. I do think your design was ahead of it's time.

This spring I'll be tweaking as many small things as I can to get even more out of her.

Thanks so much for designing such a great fun boat!

I love the new 26' on your web site!

Thanks, John

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Carbon - 3rd Year Wrap Up:

 

The first year I raced Carbon it was agonizing at times. I was still new to sailboat racing, trying to figure out a new sport boat, my physical work load and being 62 made it all daunting much of the time. I couldn't get the performance out of her and I was ready to sell her by mid season.

But then I luckily got a lesson from Dan Kaseler at Quantum sails and he helped turn things around.

I wrote about most of this earlier up the thread.

The biggest changes that Dan employed right away were using the windward jib sheets as in haulers to be able to sail higher, showing me how to feather in heavy wind and getting a better feel for the A-sail running. We started winning races.

 

The second season we were able to build on our first. We won a couple of race series and did well every week when we didn't have some kind of blow out of a problem. Small sport boats are light and powerful, but they don't coast. If you have a problem you just come to a screeching halt.

We had a lot of light air racing this season and got some great lessons from my friend Mark, an ex-Olympic level Finn sailor.

 

Over the winter before this last season I made a ton of modifications to the boat.

I added a hatch to launch the a-sail on it's furler, added track and cars for the jib in haulers, a mast mounted instrument dash panel including a GPS speedo, and to top it all off a new Quantum main sail. I added some inserts to the sides of the cock pit to hold the spin sheets when not in use and an awesome custom built seal for the bow sprit.

We had been getting tons of water in through the sprit opening in heavy weather.

My friend Doug and I spent quite a while looking at different options. What we came up with was an elongated cone that slipped over the front of the pole so when you pulled the pole in it would slide easily into it's opening and seal it up.

 

I'm a custom furniture builder by trade so fabricating the cone wasn't especially difficult. It did take quite a bit of time but it was fun. I started by cutting out the shape from closed cell foam, then applied epoxy and carbon fiber cloth, Bondo, primer and paint. And then re-painted the whole pole with Awlgrip. I also installed a very strong "U" bolt at the end of the pole for the a-sail furler as you need a very strong fixed point that won't spin at all when furling.

 

So for the third season we were really much more prepared. We continued to do great in the Wednesday evening beer can racing, but instead of going back over to Port Orchard where we had so much fun with such great guys, we opted to go to the Seattle Thursday Night Racing Series.

 

Now this was a real anomaly! The racing there is much more like stock car racing than sanctioned sailboat racing, more of a free-for-all where about anything goes. It took us a couple weeks to figure out that many of the biggest boats were jumping the start by as much as a half a minute or more! Lots of the boats in that series are monsters, ex-Americas Cup boat, 60 footers, 50 footers on down and it's straight up racing. We would be in the midst of 40 boats and feel like we were in a vacuum! 60 to 70 boats overall on a tight buoy racing course. At the start of one races the huge AC boat, looking like it was throwing all caution aside, threaded the needle between about eight boats including us.

 

We started to get the hang of it though. For one thing, being so small, we could hang out right at the start line and look behind us to see when the big boats were coming at us. Ignoring the start horn, as soon as they were baring down on us we would take off. It was still a melee though as those monsters would be pounding by us like locomotives. We would try all sorts of maneuvers to try to stay with them. At one mark in a race we took Carbon about 50 yards wide of the mark to get clear air and a deeper reach. We passed about 25 boats doing 11 knots, we were just screaming along in 15-18 kts of breeze. It was a blast!

 

We didn't get to use the kite much as most of the wind directions were beam reaches. The couple times we did, it was blowing 15-18 kts and we were just barely able to hold the high angle we were forced to follow. During one race there was a tour boat coming right up the course! (It is called the downtown series.) We were flying along on a beam reach right at him with the kite up, I couldn't sail one drop higher and to bare off meant going just where he needed to go to avoid the pack of boats coming at him. I said to my crew, screw him we're not changing course so he better move! He did.

 

It was wild time and we consistently finished in the top 8 to 12 spots, straight up racing, no corrected times. The first three races they didn't even record our finish we were such a small boat in that pack of monsters. I had to call race organizers the next few weeks and ask them to look for this dinky little boat coming across the finish with the huge ones.

 

The next sanctioned race we did we didn't do too well. It was light air and I learned another good lesson, we were over loaded with crew and I tried to go outside the box with too many chances that didn't work. I learned some good lessons.

 

Our last race of the season was a wonderful end to a great season. It was the traditional Around The Island Race (Bainbridge Island, WA)

The first couple times I raced in this one were dismal! Nothing went right.

But we felt pretty confident this time around. I knew two of the fastest boats pretty well and their great crews. My game plan going in was to just try to stay with them as much as I could and get some correction on them. They are light years ahead of me in experience but we knew we were sailing Carbon pretty well. My basic mind set was to just try not to get in the way of our boat. Keep it simple, go fast, head up the course and as my friend Mark has taught me, look at what the other boats are doing for clues.

We also had the last minute good fortune to have my friend Dan from Quantum come with us.

 

It was a perfect day for a sport boat! 6-8 kts of breeze for a very long downwind start.

We came off the start line barley able to hold the beam reach, actually slightly to windward, with our huge kite.

We had a good inside position and held the lead for the first hour or so. We had about a two and a half hour spinnaker run before we started to go windward!

A gorgeous day and that long run were incredibly fun.

 

As we came around the end of the island to windward the breeze continued to drop.

We had to fight our way up the passage in light air. Once we got far enough up the island and turned the corner to our overnight stop, the breeze kicked up some and we had a good finish for the first day. That night we found out that we had a corrected time of first for the first day!

The next day was a slog and the race was finished early. But overall we had done pretty well.

 

I've got a minimal amount of work to do on Carbon this winter.

One of the issues we need to address is, that when we installed the spinnaker furler, we also made the luff of the sail much more rounded because of the shortened length. I need the shorten the sail a bit.

Probably the biggest change is going to a smaller outboard. I could reduce the weight on the transom by about 20 lbs. by running a 3.5 hp. I'm sure many could ask what in the hell I was doing running a bigger engine, many have, but I'll leave that for now except for that just being inexperience on my part. Now though, I am looking more and more at lightening things up.

I'm hoping to paint the non-skid on the deck this season and have a handful of small items to get ready early for this next season.

 

I've made a YouTube slide show of some pics:

 

And a video shot by a friend. If you go forward to about 4:35 in this second video it shows us with our kite up:

 

You ever need crew. Send me a PM

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You ever need crew. Send me a PM

.

....I'll vouch for the lad. Sarc does what he's told, is thoughtful ,with a keen eye for details, doesn't get incontinent when the boat starts to fly, and knows better than to laugh at the skipper when he F.U.'s.....

 

.....an asset to any boat! :);)

 

 

...here's Sarc as forward hand during an i550's fastest moment...

 

post-3217-0-66621500-1399267847.jpgpost-3217-0-96816700-1399271442_thumb.jp

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Sarc, I replied to your email/post but don't know if it went through?

I sail out of Bainbridge so let me know if you want to stay in touch?

Thanks couchsurfer.

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As usual we had a great time racing with the guys in Port Orchard this season! Really nice folks and a lot of fun to be with.

This years lessons........ Current relief, push and covering! Boy we learned a lot from the local folks! We were children racing against men but we started to get it.

 

From Dibley Marine Facebook:

(In the pictures shown it was our first race of the season, The Spring Shakedown, blowing 25 kts - 30 kts.

We were so beat up near the end that we didn't even fly the kite for the last short run but still doing 15 kts with the main and jib sailing deep. We're smiling in the pictures but we sure had the crap beat out of us.)

 

https://www.facebook...rs/294490505335

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Carbon Update 2016 - For sale

 

Six years ago when I bought Carbon I was a novice racer and wanted a hot rod race boat. I was tired of getting beat in a slow boat. Just a few months after I bought Carbon I was so frustrated trying to sail her fast I decided to sell it. I would eventually find out a big lesson, the boat doesn't make the sailor.

Within a short time I got a couple lessons that made a huge improvement. For the next few years I spent endless hours studying sailboat racing, trying new things and improving the boat with countless upgrades and improvements.

Eventually all the long hours of study and improvements paid off!

Five years later we won several of the West Sound Series races in Puget Sound and won nearly every mid week beer can race. The condition of Carbon today with the upgrades and improvements may be the best it's ever been in.

 

But what has aged and declined is myself. At 60 I thought I was too old to race Carbon, at 66 I just don't seem to have the drive any longer. I still love the boat, but I find myself being pushed too hard to last the many hours of the regional races. And we usually have at least an hour long commute to and from the races.

 

I hate to let Carbon go after such a great six year learning experience and with how well tuned it is now, but it's time.

 

Here is a summary of where the boat is at and I'll have an ad on SA soon:

PHRF 93

New or Nearly New:

NEW asymmetrical spinnaker........ . 856 sf.

NEW bottom paint.

Nearly new 3.5 Merc outboard.

Nearly new Quantum main sail.

3 year old Quantum jib.

Very good #2 storm jib but we never use it.

 

Carbon planes at about 10 kts of boat speed.

Incredibly stable at 20 kts + as she was designed as an off ashore racer.

The Weapon!......... On a beam reach in 6 kts-9kts of breeze with the kite up, she'll do wind speed! That's why we use a spinnaker furler, (Selden GX10) to be able to launch fast, furl and re-launch. Same with downwind starts, a quick launch.

 

Carbon sails extremely high and fast with the use of jib in-haulers.

See lots of pictures at: http://www.steinerservices.com/Carbon-Sailboat-Racing/

post-56749-0-03479900-1464222946_thumb.jpg

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I heard that it has sold.

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Carbon has been sold to a really nice fellow in Seattle. He has a ton of racing experience and it has been a pleasure getting to know him.

One of the first things he told me was that he didn't care what inside! What a relief after a long string of potential buyers that seemed to want a AAA hotel and room service! :blink:

And his feel at the tiller was perfect, keeping the boat flat and fast.

Should be some more interesting news to follow.

 

I can't quite believe it, but a friend and I are looking at Hobie 18's just for Wed night racing here off Bainbridge.

Too old for the all day racing but I guess not too old to go out on a Hobie for an hour or two!

Carbon kind of spoiled me for the need for speed!

I wonder what the PHRF for a Hobie 18 will be? :rolleyes: I might have to add foils! :D

 

What a great seven years it has been to basically grow into sailboat racing on Carbon, a racing machine!

Still when I look at her I shake my head at how great and powerful of a boat she is.

It's going to be really fun to see how the new owner will push her. I may get to ride along and see first hand.

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Carbon has been sold to a really nice fellow in Seattle. He has a ton of racing experience and it has been a pleasure getting to know him.

One of the first things he told me was that he didn't care what inside! What a relief after a long string of potential buyers that seemed to want a AAA hotel and room service! :blink:

And his feel at the tiller was perfect, keeping the boat flat and fast.

Should be some more interesting news to follow.

 

I can't quite believe it, but a friend and I are looking at Hobie 18's just for Wed night racing here off Bainbridge.

Too old for the all day racing but I guess not too old to go out on a Hobie for an hour or two!

Carbon kind of spoiled me for the need for speed!

I wonder what the PHRF for a Hobie 18 will be? :rolleyes: I might have to add foils! :D

 

What a great seven years it has been to basically grow into sailboat racing on Carbon, a racing machine!

Still when I look at her I shake my head at how great and powerful of a boat she is.

It's going to be really fun to see how the new owner will push her. I may get to ride along and see first hand.

It's been fun sharing the journey with you 'UHMW'. Best of luck and success in the next stage of your sailing :)

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Many thanks Kevin! Your support over the last six years has been incredible, a huge help in so many ways!

I can't thank you enough for all the help and for designing a great boat. I know the new owner will be doing very well racing Carbon.

Thanks, John

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I can't quite believe it, but a friend and I are looking at Hobie 18's just for Wed night racing here off Bainbridge.

Too old for the all day racing but I guess not too old to go out on a Hobie for an hour or two!

Carbon kind of spoiled me for the need for speed!

I wonder what the PHRF for a Hobie 18 will be? :rolleyes: I might have to add foils! :D

Hobie 18 DPN is 71.4 so converted to PHRF (6*DPN-330 = 98) that's pretty similar to Carbon so maybe not much loss.

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LOL! Thanks Speng!

I was just looking last night and saw the same thing. Maybe 98 PHRF without the kite, 93 with it?

It's just casual racing so I just need to get close.

I do think I have bought one and in great shape!

Thanks, John

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Carbon has been sold to a really nice fellow in Seattle. He has a ton of racing experience and it has been a pleasure getting to know him.

One of the first things he told me was that he didn't care what inside! What a relief after a long string of potential buyers that seemed to want a AAA hotel and room service! :blink:

And his feel at the tiller was perfect, keeping the boat flat and fast.

Should be some more interesting news to follow.

 

I can't quite believe it, but a friend and I are looking at Hobie 18's just for Wed night racing here off Bainbridge.

Too old for the all day racing but I guess not too old to go out on a Hobie for an hour or two!

Carbon kind of spoiled me for the need for speed!

I wonder what the PHRF for a Hobie 18 will be? :rolleyes: I might have to add foils! :D

 

What a great seven years it has been to basically grow into sailboat racing on Carbon, a racing machine!

Still when I look at her I shake my head at how great and powerful of a boat she is.

It's going to be really fun to see how the new owner will push her. I may get to ride along and see first hand.

Well it takes 4 marines to pick up a Hobie 18 so foils wont do much. Triple traps on the other hand are the bomb diggity

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Some updated news about Carbon.

I wish I knew more about the specifics, but while the new owner of Carbon was racing in fairly high wind and big swell the bow of the boat was buried into the trough of a big wave and d-masted! A lot of the gear was lost or damaged, including sails, furlers. The boat overall seemed fine looking at pictures.

The last I saw of her were pictures sitting on blocks at an auction site. I don't know what she went for. No matter what the new buyer is in a bit of a quandary as the rebuild is expensive no matter how you do it. But I hope they get her up and going again. One fellow was looking to buy her and seemed to have some good thoughts about restoration.

 

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It was a few months ago, maybe Oct or Nov. Off Seattle somewhere. Sorry I don't have more specific info.

It was kind of disheartening to hear after all the time and money that went into Carbon. New kite and all the rest.

Thx

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PSSC at Shilshole in Seattle. It was blowing 25-35.

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well that sucks. one of a kind boat...

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On 5/26/2017 at 6:22 AM, Steins1 said:

Some updated news about Carbon.

I wish I knew more about the specifics, but while the new owner of Carbon was racing in fairly high wind and big swell the bow of the boat was buried into the trough of a big wave and d-masted! A lot of the gear was lost or damaged, including sails, furlers. The boat overall seemed fine looking at pictures.

The last I saw of her were pictures sitting on blocks at an auction site. I don't know what she went for. No matter what the new buyer is in a bit of a quandary as the rebuild is expensive no matter how you do it. But I hope they get her up and going again. One fellow was looking to buy her and seemed to have some good thoughts about restoration.

 

It might not be so bad. The big issue of coarse is the cost to restore being more than the boat is worth. But hey, how many times have I rebuilt boats and had double what they are worth in them! I'd hate to even know what I had in Carbon. But it's a hobby that I really like.

One fellow I talked to asked for instance what I thought about an aluminum mast. I told him that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but the cost would sure be better. It would at least get her up and going. The boat was in pretty good shape from what I could see.

The biggest issue would be a carbon mast. But maybe with some resourcefulness someone could come up with one? Who knows?

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