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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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DSE

Santana 30/30 GP performance info and known issues

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

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Light air it is a good boat.

 

In strong wind it just doesn't have the stability to power upwind (you really need to stack the weather rail with 7 bodies) and it's too heavy to take off downwind.

 

Does it have the elliptical rudder and keel? This helps extend the rage of the boat into medium winds.

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

 

Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

 

Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

 

MORC? Really?

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

 

Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

 

MORC? Really?

 

Yes... ? You think otherwise?

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

 

Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

 

MORC? Really?

 

You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.

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MORC? Really?

That's what Bruce Nelson told me.

Also sailed under JOG in Oz. I believe Street Fighter was one. Good performer in light to medium airs but the Dubios Half Tonners were better in stronger winds e.g. Public Nuisance and Beach Inspector.

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Cal 9.2 at 186? Is it sailing without a headsail? Nothing on earth should be able to beat a Cal 9.2 at 186 in light air.

 

Where? Our Cal 9.2 was 171 about 10 years ago in WLIS.

 

 

Cheers,

 

MikeR

 

 

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I've sailed on a gp version quite a bit in both MORC & PHRF. Pretty good all around boat and it does like light air a lot. PHRF rating on lake Erie 117. I might have a old set of polars. I'll look around.

post-161-088357600 1320063270_thumb.jpg

 

post-161-052988800 1320063298_thumb.jpg

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

 

Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

 

MORC? Really?

 

Let me guess, you long boarded yours, and made it plane like a J105.

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

 

Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

 

MORC? Really?

 

You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.

 

DoRag is pretty thick when it comes to anything.

 

 

 

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I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

 

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

 

Thanks

 

Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

 

MORC? Really?

 

You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.

 

DoRag is pretty thick when it comes to anything.

 

 

You been served yet?

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Cal 9.2 at 186? Is it sailing without a headsail? Nothing on earth should be able to beat a Cal 9.2 at 186 in light air.

 

Where? Our Cal 9.2 was 171 about 10 years ago in WLIS.

 

 

Cheers,

 

MikeR

That's because you must have been racing against someone on the PHRF comm, from western LIS ;)

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Raced one lots in PNW in the Performance 30 fleet: S2 9.1, Olson 911, and J30. All very similar speed except the J30 is off the pace in light and medium. 30/30 hates weight on the bow and requires more attention to trim than Js, but rewards the extra effort. Good boat to elevate your game on.

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Thanks all for the no-BS info. I'm curious about the cal 9.2 comments. I've attached a basic numerical comparison of the cal 9.2, santana 30/30, and my catalina 30 based on dimensional data from http://sailboatdata.com/, formulas from http://dan.pfeiffer....boat/ratios.htm, and PNW actual PHRF numbers (the sail area for my catalina is actual). Dimensionally, the 9.2 and the 3030 appear to be similar and I know I'm not accounting for everying in the design of the two boats, what would make the 3030 so much faster (or the 9.2 slower)?

post-33571-071814600 1320082035_thumb.jpg

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Thanks all for the no-BS info. I'm curious about the cal 9.2 comments. I've attached a basic numerical comparison of the cal 9.2, santana 30/30, and my catalina 30 based on dimensional data from http://sailboatdata.com/, formulas from http://dan.pfeiffer....boat/ratios.htm, and PNW actual PHRF numbers (the sail area for my catalina is actual). Dimensionally, the 9.2 and the 3030 appear to be similar and I know I'm not accounting for everying in the design of the two boats, what would make the 3030 so much faster (or the 9.2 slower)?

 

I think the Cat30 was also designed for MORC......

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Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

 

MORC? Really?

 

You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.

 

DoRag is pretty thick when it comes to anything.

 

 

You been served yet?

 

No, thanks for asking. I'll have fries with that please.

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I raced a few times on a 30/30 owned by the late Carmine Qualio in the famed EBYRA Wed night races.

 

The boat really seemed to clean up. Not sure what her rating # or hull # was.

 

Sail safe

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I raced a few times on a 30/30 owned by the late Carmine Qualio in the famed EBYRA Wed night races.

 

The boat really seemed to clean up. Not sure what her rating # or hull # was.

 

Sail safe

 

That was the cruiser version. We briefly had a GP version at Maritime that I raced in the EBYRA fall series, did fairly well with it. It's a handful in a breeze going uphill.

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Hey Darkie: the Santana 30/30 GP I owned had the upgrade elliptical keel / rudder. It appeared no faster or slower than its identical twin with the factory blades (hulls 15/16). If you use the boat for what it was designed to--lite to moderate winds, offshore in a Pacific swell, she does great. If you try racing a fractional J/29 in winds over 18 and chop, you're gonna get you arse handed to you every-time. Not a good boat in winds over 12 knots, IMHO. Personally, other than the cool deck layout and diesel inboard, a J27 is better boat all the way around.

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back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!

post-1596-033156300 1320097946_thumb.jpg

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back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!

 

I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?

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I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?

I sailed on them before the GP came out. It was the PC version. Full comfortable CRUISE-ABLE interior.

 

The cockpit is good enough and hiking out is made easier by "ramps" which go to the same height as the toe-rail so you don't get your circulation cut off.

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back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!

 

I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?

 

Having sailed both a Sov 33 and Tuna 30/30, it is fair to say the 33 is a bit more painful, mostly because it takes a massive number of people on a 33 just for rail meat, and the whole boat gets really crowded. They are very different boats, but have their attractive features, just depends what you want. 30/30 is a good all around boat, especially for the money.

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Things to look for...

 

- As with all boats, Leaking chainplates and ritten bulkhead below.

 

- remove seahood as it is attached with screws into core

 

- remove the two ports near the cockpit floor. If they are not sealed correctly they will slowly rot out below and then Ionto thexockpit floor

 

- no sump so if not installed you willneed to find a very low profile bildge pump (whale)

 

- get rid of the old backstay system and replace with a cascading system

 

- stantion bases at the rail side have little to no core below. You will need to remove them, revert, install larger backing plates on top and bottom.

 

- In anything over 7 knots you need full crew weight.

 

- if the boat has a lexan hatch, replace it with a fiberglass o ne. The mfg still sells them, Lexan one breaks easily.

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the 3030 is soooo easy to get around on. the cockpit is great, driver sits aft of the traveler in fantasy land! just step out of the cockpit and your on deck, no climbing over anything.

post-1596-040173500 1320250044_thumb.jpg

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back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!

 

I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?

 

Having sailed both a Sov 33 and Tuna 30/30, it is fair to say the 33 is a bit more painful, mostly because it takes a massive number of people on a 33 just for rail meat, and the whole boat gets really crowded. They are very different boats, but have their attractive features, just depends what you want. 30/30 is a good all around boat, especially for the money.

 

Do the class rules allow for longboarding the hull?

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back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!

 

I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?

 

Having sailed both a Sov 33 and Tuna 30/30, it is fair to say the 33 is a bit more painful, mostly because it takes a massive number of people on a 33 just for rail meat, and the whole boat gets really crowded. They are very different boats, but have their attractive features, just depends what you want. 30/30 is a good all around boat, especially for the money.

 

Do the class rules allow for longboarding the hull?

 

Does the class exist? If not, then no rules, so longboard away. And even if the class does exist but the boat is not going to race class, then go ahead and longboard.

 

That said, has any boat ever come out of Schock that didn't need longboarding? Ask a certain incoming commodore of a certain club in Newport Beach how much money she spent on having her keel faired because it was asymetrical, and that was after figuring out is was set off center,as well as her rudder which was not plumb to the centerline.

 

So, in general, yes Schock build has some known quality issues which I should have mentioned in my first post.

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Short story about that.

 

The Schock 35 was derived from the Santana 35 by taking a Santana 35 hull and laying out a more plumb bow, then fairing pretty much straight lines to the new bow from the tangent points. The mold was made from that. So any fairness issues on the Santana 35 show up on the Schock 35.

 

The very visible planking lines on the S35s are due to the fact that the final fairing of the plug was completed too late in the afternoon to start the mold that day. The plug sat overnight and the mold was started up in the morning. Overnight the plug contracted in the coolness of the night and expanded again in the warmth of the new day. It also picked up some moisture from the night air.

 

The mold-release, gel-coat and layup were started without going over and re-fairing the hull so the results of that extra moisture and the contraction and expansion show up as the very prominent planking seams in the finished product.

 

The Schock 35 successfully addressed the shortcomings of the Santana 35 and went on to become a successful one-design and PHRF racer. At the peak of the class popularity the factory was running at full capacity to fulfill orders. It doesn't surprise me that some hull numbers were assembled a little more sloppy than others.

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Things to look for...

 

- As with all boats, Leaking chainplates and ritten bulkhead below.

 

- remove seahood as it is attached with screws into core

 

- remove the two ports near the cockpit floor. If they are not sealed correctly they will slowly rot out below and then Ionto thexockpit floor

 

- no sump so if not installed you willneed to find a very low profile bildge pump (whale)

 

- get rid of the old backstay system and replace with a cascading system

 

- stantion bases at the rail side have little to no core below. You will need to remove them, revert, install larger backing plates on top and bottom.

 

- In anything over 7 knots you need full crew weight.

 

- if the boat has a lexan hatch, replace it with a fiberglass o ne. The mfg still sells them, Lexan one breaks easily.

 

And (based on what worked for a PC)-

-put the main halyard clutch on the mast, head high

-aim the other three clutches toward center, put a single sheave line deflector at aft center of hood, and remove the two extra winches now no longer needed

-get rid of the morc-style check stays on the cabin top, lead them to the aft corners of the boat and then forward to the secondaries

-the main trav should be a continuous loop, and double-ending the fine tune worked well

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Hee haw!! I skippered this boat before the major overhaul at blackline.

Good to see the keel bolt issue has been remedied(at least that what the pics look like)

Lots of fun on that boat.

Looks like it has newer instrumentation also. We had a tacktick on it.

Looks like much newer sails than our program enjoyed.

 

Things for the surveyor:

Check the keel bolts!

Diesel tank integrity.

 

Did I mention how much fun we had on that boat? Awesome!

 

GS

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Had shit tons of fun on that boat until I sold it in 2009. It's got a nicely faired keel, (had?) a pretty nifty rigging setup, had a rebuilt, lighter (declared to PH, thank you) motor put in in '08, and it all worked in '09. Sucks to see it dumped to a donation outfit, but that's the way things go I guess.

post-4941-036797000 1321647013_thumb.jpg

post-4941-031713000 1321647014_thumb.jpg

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Attached is the Ullman tuning guide I pulled from the old website from back when Ullman was the cats ass for these boats (are the still?). I'll dig around and see what else I have squirreled away. The sailing list satana3030 at sailpix dot com still has registered users and is a good source to tap into. These boats are great in the PNW as they can get moving with the lightest ripple of wind and still do OK for those two times a year the wind picks up (as long as you have plenty of monkeys on the rail). Great boat to learn how to tune as they have lots of bits of string to pull on just like the big boys but the boats are still small enough that you can feel the effect.

The Ullman Sails tuning guide was written to help you set up your boat properly and to provide a tuning reference_files.zip

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Old thread here but was helpful, especially the tuning guide Chunks Ahoy posted. I just picked on 30/30 Abraxas in San Diego (originally Assissin) and I am not finding too much helpful info beyond this post. I'll keep searching but any pointers from other owners or former owners is appreciated... I admit I am but a novice but here to learn (and take the abuse that comes with being a novice ;-) Thanks

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I had one ten years ago. I put on an elliptical keel and rudder. Look at the stanchion bases, I had the problem that the guy talked about in the post above. I fiound out that mine had a crack in the front side of the mast where it passes througthe deck, when the guy I sole it to called to complain. I lengthened the boom because it didn't reach as we'll as a J29. check for ballast in the bow. Some guys trimmed them bow down to raise the transom above the MORC 4% waterline height. You will probably want to remove that ballast since you won't be racing MORC.

 

It is a great boat, you will have lots of fun on it!

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Light air boat its pretty good. Don't buy it thinking you'll do heavy air rough water events we have had a few pop bulkheads and start coming apart on fairly decent sailors on the Pacific Coast when things get rough.

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In the late 80s through the 90s in Seattle, we had a nice class of several Santana 30/30s, S2 9.1s and Olson 911Ss. Crewed on one of the Santana 30/30 and have wonderful memories of the boat. I have a J24 right now but still sometimes regret not buying a Santana 30/30 GP that was for sale here about a doxzen years ago. If you are in the market for a 30 footer, all the three boats mentioned would be good candidates and all can be had for a reasonable amount of money.

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Thanks for the info. Ended up getting the 30/30. I've had her in 20-25 knots spinnaker running (doubled-handed) and she's not too bad. Can't seem to stay with the Olsen 911s, S2 9.1s, or j30's upwind though (<12knots). I think it may be that I'm sailing with older sails and probably don't have enough rail meat. I've been following the guides above for sail and rig tune.

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Thanks for the info. Ended up getting the 30/30. I've had her in 20-25 knots spinnaker running (doubled-handed) and she's not too bad. Can't seem to stay with the Olsen 911s, S2 9.1s, or j30's upwind though (<12knots). I think it may be that I'm sailing with older sails and probably don't have enough rail meat. I've been following the guides above for sail and rig tune.

 

It's you sails or rig tune, a 30/30 is faster upwind in anything under 15 than a j30 and same thing against the 9.1s. 911's seems to be pretty close to speed to the 30/30 from what i have seen after owning one for 5 years. Where are you located and what 30/30 did you buy? Weight is critical, you need as much weight as your phrf allows in anything over 6 knots upwind.

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I'm going on an all donut, rum, and bacon diet. That should help in the rail-meat dept.

 

That's the dedication I expect from the crew.

 

Thanks for the info. Ended up getting the 30/30. I've had her in 20-25 knots spinnaker running (doubled-handed) and she's not too bad. Can't seem to stay with the Olsen 911s, S2 9.1s, or j30's upwind though (<12knots). I think it may be that I'm sailing with older sails and probably don't have enough rail meat. I've been following the guides above for sail and rig tune.

 

It's you sails or rig tune, a 30/30 is faster upwind in anything under 15 than a j30 and same thing against the 9.1s. 911's seems to be pretty close to speed to the 30/30 from what i have seen after owning one for 5 years. Where are you located and what 30/30 did you buy? Weight is critical, you need as much weight as your phrf allows in anything over 6 knots upwind.

 

The genoa and main are 2006 UK Halsey tape drive (I might not have the last part right). I'm talking to a sailmaker right now about replacements. We mostly sail puget sound and the boat is Blackout.

 

 

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From what I remember, the mains for these boats are cut pretty flat. In the lighter air, we used the running backstay to pull the center of the mast aft to add some fullness to the main. That seemed to help our light air perfomance. The 911s's and S2 9.1's are a little tougher but you ought to be able to stay with them. It is hard to be competitive with six year old sails and a new set will do wonders for your boat speed. The boat also needs to be sailed flat. We sailed the boat with seven people in just about all conditions.

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I have played the check stays (or what ever they are called) on occasion to put more shape in the main, but I often forget about them unless the wind picks up. I'll have to pay more attention to that. I have noticed the Olsens and S2s have very flat mains as well and their out-hauls always seem trimmed tight.

 

One common thread I'm hearing is that you have to have crew weight regardless of wind-speed. I will have to start stocking up on the "donuts, rum, and bacon" before the next season. The most people I've raced with this past year was 6 and on average we end up with 4. One thing that drives me nuts is a J35 in our local PHRF fleet that kicks our butts sailing single-handed (no crew weight). When he does have crew the boat seems to slow down (we still get beat). I'd love to figure out his "magic". I guess that's what makes this whole sailing/racing thing so interesting.

 

In summary: Crew weight, crew weight, crew weight, and then new sails.

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I have played the check stays (or what ever they are called) on occasion to put more shape in the main, but I often forget about them unless the wind picks up. I'll have to pay more attention to that. I have noticed the Olsens and S2s have very flat mains as well and their out-hauls always seem trimmed tight.

 

One common thread I'm hearing is that you have to have crew weight regardless of wind-speed. I will have to start stocking up on the "donuts, rum, and bacon" before the next season. The most people I've raced with this past year was 6 and on average we end up with 4. One thing that drives me nuts is a J35 in our local PHRF fleet that kicks our butts sailing single-handed (no crew weight). When he does have crew the boat seems to slow down (we still get beat). I'd love to figure out his "magic". I guess that's what makes this whole sailing/racing thing so interesting.

 

In summary: Crew weight, crew weight, crew weight, and then new sails.

You were looking good yesterday and seemed to have good upwind speed.

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Blackout, saw the boat last weekend during the Blakley Island race, looks really nice. Tha's the old Cats Paw (from Seattle) and Knockout (Portland). Nice graphics, who did them, and how are they holding up at the waterline (assume it is a wrap?).

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There is a cheater 30/30 down in NJ called Project Mayham, has a taller rig than stock boat, elliptical rudder, and the grand prix interior and rates 126.

Plus the owner is a douche

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The graphics are painted on. With a new set of sails and a recent wet sanded bottom, she goes pretty good now. Definitely have to have at least 7-8 people, even in the light stuff.

 

 

Blackout, saw the boat last weekend during the Blakley Island race, looks really nice. Tha's the old Cats Paw (from Seattle) and Knockout (Portland). Nice graphics, who did them, and how are they holding up at the waterline (assume it is a wrap?).

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There is a cheater 30/30 down in NJ called Project Mayham, has a taller rig than stock boat, elliptical rudder, and the grand prix interior and rates 126.

Plus the owner is a douche

 

The same boat in So Cal rates 105.

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The joke, but close to the truth:

Why was it called the 30/30? Because in 30kts of wind you need 30 crew!

Great, fast boats.

Cheers, Greg

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Super nice boat to drive upwind. Like the rail lined with bodies from just forward of the chainplates all the way to the back. What race boat doesn't like that?

 

I'm not convinced the GP is fast enough to justify a rating penalty vs the models that you can actually stand up inside of.

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funny because it is true...

The joke, but close to the truth:

Why was it called the 30/30? Because in 30kts of wind you need 30 crew!

Great, fast boats.

Cheers, Greg

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Crewed on a 30/30 in Seattle through the 90s. Great boat but it did need the rail meat. Was always envious of Cats Paw, the 30/30 GP, because the large cockpit would accommodate the large crew much better. In terms of boat speed, the GP never seemed all that much faster than the regular 30/30 and would hardly ever make up for the difference in rating. Had a chance to buy the GP, when it was for sale in Seattle, and still somewhat regret not pulling the trigger. The appeal of OD racing was just too strong.

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Am looking for a used Kenyon mast for my 30/30. Anyone with info give me a call.

Jim in Dallas.

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Purchased a 1982 Santana 30-30 a few years ago from Shelter Island Bay, NY area - from what I can tell it would be a "PC" model as it is only hull number 10 ("GP" and "RC" models came later) and has slightly different cockpit.  These comments have been very helpful with upkeep and things to watch for (I'm preparing to rebed and replace all the stanchion bases).

By the way - "Project Mayhem" sunk off the coast of New Jersey - bought his mainsail but have to get it trimmed down as I have standard height mast (saw note above that it had taller rig).  Don't know if the hull was salvaged.  Have only heard of a few other Santana 30-30's left out there.

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39 minutes ago, Smokin' Duck said:

By the way - "Project Mayhem" sunk off the coast of New Jersey - bought his mainsail but have to get it trimmed down as I have standard height mast (saw note above that it had taller rig).  Don't know if the hull was salvaged.   Have only heard of a few other Santana 30-30's left out there.

Submerged of the coast of New Jersey??? :o

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I guess "swamped" would have been a better description as I believe it was towed in, and I was told that it was "totaled" by insurance.  Never know what happens after the insurance company is done. 

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49 minutes ago, Smokin' Duck said:

.  Have only heard of a few other Santana 30-30's left out there.

Depends on what you mean by "there".

On the West Coast, there seems to be as many, if not more 30/30s than J/30s.

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3 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Depends on what you mean by "there".

On the West Coast, there seems to be as many, if not more 30/30s than J/30s.

Yes. Make sure you discern between the PC (Performance Cruiser) and the GP (Grand Prix) models.
PHRF treats them very differently.

There are a few modified San 3030 (E and J) that the others (and So Cal PHRF) hate.

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Been reading all this thread with interest.  Here is another santana 3030 pc   Bought in October 2015, but just got it in sailing condition. Maybe 5 hours under sail.  It is an 82.   Curious as to hull number.  Last few digits of Id are 140282 and I know last two, 82, are the year.  

Replaced main cabin ports  

Am in need of forward hatch.  Had to repair bent mast (turns out the Kenyon mast  is also used on J30, so bought an 8 foot section from New England). center port bulkhead replaced (and corresponding  hole in deck where chain plates pulled through) and the replacement Yanmar 1g needed a new head and valves, plus replaced every line and All harken cam cleats.  Pulled out headliner. Slowly rebuilding interior.  

Wonder what is purpose of 4 winches on the cockpit?  

What are checkstay lines to run to?   Presently to harken cleats.  

Had the back stay adjuster rebuilt, but forgot to have them replace pressure gauge.

Boat was Mas Caliente and renamed Phoenix, as it comes from the ashes of Mas Caliente. 

Finally this weekend ordering a new laminate Quantum 155. Which I will have on a roller furler.  Will change to Dacron 105 above 12 knots TWS.  I know that a furler will cost me time, but at a time in my life when I want some convenience   

knotmeter, depth and compass replaced. 

Has been a long uphill rebuild. I have had a lot of boats, but never started with a boat in this bad of shape      Am looking forward to the end result.  

 

Will also need a Main.  Have read that some have used a Dacron main with the laminate Genoa.  

Look forward to comments and help on hatch, winches and checkstays.

 

jim oursler

972 849 8279 at Lake Ray Hubbard, Dallas.  

Oh, need some rail meat for Wednesday night races.      

 

Also, need rig tuning guide   

 

 

 

Edited by eusjim
Added need for rig tuning guide

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Jim,

While it was many years ago, I took my foredeck hatch to a plexiglass shop.  They made me a perfect replica, right down to drillin holes for hinges and screw latches.  Bought some weather striping from Home Depot (the "expensive closed cell kind with double sided adhesive already in place.  Was a perfect fit....used original hinges and screw latches.  

 

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I will look into that with local plexiglass shops.  Was yours a curved hatch?  Mine is. 

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7 hours ago, eusjim said:

Been reading all this thread with interest.  Here is another santana 3030 pc   Bought in October 2015, but just got it in sailing condition. Maybe 5 hours under sail.  It is an 82.   Curious as to hull number.  Last few digits of Id are 140282 and I know last two, 82, are the year.  

Replaced main cabin ports  

Am in need of forward hatch.  Had to repair bent mast (turns out the Kenyon mast  is also used on J30, so bought an 8 foot section from New England). center port bulkhead replaced (and corresponding  hole in deck where chain plates pulled through) and the replacement Yanmar 1g needed a new head and valves, plus replaced every line and All harken cam cleats.  Pulled out headliner. Slowly rebuilding interior.  

Wonder what is purpose of 4 winches on the cockpit?  

What are checkstay lines to run to?   Presently to harken cleats.  

Had the back stay adjuster rebuilt, but forgot to have them replace pressure gauge.

Boat was Mas Caliente and renamed Phoenix, as it comes from the ashes of Mas Caliente. 

Finally this weekend ordering a new laminate Quantum 155. Which I will have on a roller furler.  Will change to Dacron 105 above 12 knots TWS.  I know that a furler will cost me time, but at a time in my life when I want some convenience   

knotmeter, depth and compass replaced. 

Has been a long uphill rebuild. I have had a lot of boats, but never started with a boat in this bad of shape      Am looking forward to the end result.  

 

Will also need a Main.  Have read that some have used a Dacron main with the laminate Genoa.  

Look forward to comments and help on hatch, winches and checkstays.

 

jim oursler

972 849 8279 at Lake Ray Hubbard, Dallas.  

Oh, need some rail meat for Wednesday night races.      

 

Also, need rig tuning guide   

 

 

 

Hey,

You can even change the keel, mast and rudder to a 10 year more modern version and get no rating change if you sail in certin areas of the east coast.

FS 

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The checkstays on on my 3030 used a car on track that was between the genoa car and cabin top. A dyneema line (3/16 I think) was tied from the car up to the mast. There was another line connected to the car, led aft, and then cleated in a cam cleat for adjusting tension. 

For the hatch, I had called up W.D. Shock and they were able to make a fiberglass one from the original mold. I think mine was the same as shock 35. This was about 5 or 6 years ago, not sure if they will still do this.

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2 hours ago, DSE said:

The checkstays on on my 3030 used a car on track that was between the genoa car and cabin top. A dyneema line (3/16 I think) was tied from the car up to the mast. There was another line connected to the car, led aft, and then cleated in a cam cleat for adjusting tension. 

For the hatch, I had called up W.D. Shock and they were able to make a fiberglass one from the original mold. I think mine was the same as shock 35. This was about 5 or 6 years ago, not sure if they will still do this.

W.D Shock still has a website and boats in production, so you might be able to get something.
http://www.wdschock.com/

 

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10 hours ago, eusjim said:

I will look into that with local plexiglass shops.  Was yours a curved hatch?  Mine is. 

Yes. I had an RC, which was kinda a GP interior but with a PC cabintop

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The checkstays on the 30/30 conformed to the MORC rule which penalized running backstays as being not-user-friendly and not-cruiser-oriented. So to allow rigs with swept-aft spreaders and not penalize them like running backstays [or conversely to not let full-on runners be "called" aft-lower shrouds], the rule stated a [fairly liberal] maximum percentage [of what, I forget. "J" maybe] aft of the mast you could lead aft-lower shrouds without them incurring the running backstay penalty. Certainly these checkstays stabilized the mast against pumping in lumpy water, but by stiffening up the section, they allowed more headstay tension without simply bending the mast instead. Typically, these were lead to low-friction cars on tracks located closer to the centerline than one might rig normal aft-lowers.

These fake runners are a great gear-changing tool and finer adjustment are preferred over a heavy-handed on-or-off approach. Use a good trimmer who understands the trade-offs for adjusting them. They effect the mainsail and the headsail in more-or-less opposite ways.

 

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13 hours ago, DSE said:

Some polars and trimming guide I used for my 3030.Perfomance_cheatsheet2.xls

Thanks very much for the polars and performance info.  

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7 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

The checkstays on the 30/30 conformed to the MORC rule which penalized running backstays as being not-user-friendly and not-cruiser-oriented. So to allow rigs with swept-aft spreaders and not penalize them like running backstays [or conversely to not let full-on runners be "called" aft-lower shrouds], the rule stated a [fairly liberal] maximum percentage [of what, I forget. "J" maybe] aft of the mast you could lead aft-lower shrouds without them incurring the running backstay penalty. Certainly these checkstays stabilized the mast against pumping in lumpy water, but by stiffening up the section, they allowed more headstay tension without simply bending the mast instead. Typically, these were lead to low-friction cars on tracks located closer to the centerline than one might rig normal aft-lowers.

These fake runners are a great gear-changing tool and finer adjustment are preferred over a heavy-handed on-or-off approach. Use a good trimmer who understands the trade-offs for adjusting them. They effect the mainsail and the headsail in more-or-less opposite ways.

 

Thanks for info on the checkstays.  Much appreciated. 

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On 2/5/2016 at 8:05 AM, musicman said:

PM'ed you.

I got an 8 foot mast section for my Santana 30-30 off a J30 from a guy in New England for $300 including freight.  Had a welder cut out the bent area, Put in new, sleeved the repairs, and you can't tell it was ever repaired.  

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