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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Te Kooti

Volvo Boats In For a Thrashing

3,099 posts in this topic

Teles now only 13nm behind but closing fast on 24knts versus Pumas' 20!

 

Now down to 9 to 10 miles back.

 

135 miles from the finish.

 

Puma can see Tele coming.

 

Time to pull up anchors and turn on the after burners.

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Decision time.

 

Bit like hanging around the Viaduct for the close-to-midnight arrival of Groupama.

 

Right now, it is early morning in Europe and Renny will be up in time for the finish.

 

It is very late (1.30 a.m.) along the eastern seaboard of the US and Canada.

 

10.30 p.m. for Stinger, SWS and others on the west coast.

 

Getting to be late afternoon in NZ.

 

So .... what to do?

 

Stay up for the finish, go to bed. Or what?

It looks like it will be exciting.

 

The Olympic gold medallists versus the bloke trained by Big-Bad-Dennis!

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Telefonica is 6.4 miles behind PUMA. But now there is not a different aprroach. Will they get it?

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This is an incredible performance by Tele. 2knts faster and only 5 nm behind.

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It is and one can only admire them. And just to think that your mate Dalton had a similar budget and choice. Hmm. One can only wonder what the fuck the AC will be like.

 

 

 

This is an incredible performance by Tele. 2knts faster and only 5 nm behind.

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This is an incredible performance by Tele. 2knts faster and only 5 nm behind.

Yes, pretty amazing.

 

Telefonica has had the advantage of being further offshore and sailing a better angle as they chew up the leeward gauge they have enjoyed. Still, as they've fallen off onto an almost parallel course, still to leeward, they are still making small gains.

 

At 2020 UTC, Telefonica had closed up to 4.56 miles but Puma still had 'em covered, between them and the mark.

 

Weather forecasts suggested breeze would hold up through the morning for a fast finish.

 

Can't bear this! I'm off to watch rugby

 

 

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Seems to be working for me, but a bit slow at times.

 

Will probably give you grey hair if you continually watch it - speeds constantly up and down. A five or ten minute interval might be just as good.

 

Must be a bitch having that unresolved threat hanging over your heads, on top of all the survival pressures you're enduring.

 

Who called foul?

 

Sanya I believe.

The measurers and in consequence the IJ.

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And your own team Indi with your ETNZ photo?

 

 

 

TNZ

Only 2 miles behind...

 

Bring it home Tele!!biggrin.gif

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1.6 miles...

It's only the Iker and crew genius or perhaps any problem on PUMA after the demolition race?

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Dalts not your girl anymore?

 

 

 

 

 

Only 2 miles behind...

 

Bring it home Tele!!biggrin.gif

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And your own team Indi with your ETNZ photo?

 

 

 

TNZ

Only 2 miles behind...

 

Bring it home Tele!!biggrin.gif

Still bitter after all these years?!? Loser...

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I fucking love this. Would you like a little more fact Indi? Dalton has removed Minopro from ay more sailing

?

 

 

 

 

 

 

And your own team Indi with your ETNZ photo?

 

 

 

TNZ

Only 2 miles behind...

 

Bring it home Tele!!biggrin.gif

Still bitter after all these years?!? Loser...

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Indio pulling for a Spanish team over Puma that has Kiwis on it? Interesting.

 

If the Telephone wins this leg it will be a fitting end to a joke of a leg.

 

WetHog

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yep irony is good

 

 

 

Indio pulling for a Spanish team over Puma that has Kiwis on it? Interesting.

 

If the Telephone wins this leg it will be a fitting end to a joke of a leg.

 

WetHog

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Forget the Con Cup, the WMRT, the AC - If you want to see real match racing watch the VOR biggrin.gif. Breathtaking!

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Puma's lead is down to 1.1 miles 34 miles from the finish. Talk about a dog fight.

 

Who will win ?

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Puma's lead is down to 1.1 miles 34 miles from the finish. Talk about a dog fight.

 

Who will win ?

 

Unfortunately not Puma. They're luck has been piss poor all race so far, and Tele is getting all the breaks and making all the right moves 3rd year teams usually get/make in this race.

 

WetHog

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Very exciting!

What a shame there are not more boats jostling for a place at the finish line.

 

If KR loses this one, what will he say to the Puma bosses?

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Kenny doing 5 knots; Tele doing 9 knots.

 

But millpond conditions. Wind = 5 knots.

.

Glassy!

 

So ...... ?

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If Tele gets a puff and rolls Puma Kenny cannot do much.

 

But if is stays like a millpond Kenny knows the score.

 

He did a lot of this mind of thing with Dennis.

 

So, it will be a case of staying between Tele and the finish line.

 

Maybe!

 

P.S. How many computers in Puerto Montt hotels are tuned to the tracker?

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Tele now gybes.

 

Looking for a path around the competitor.

But Puma should be able to hold on.

 

 

[You must put the tracker into "live" mode. Upper left corner of the screen, should go red and show the little clock thingo]

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Groupama back in the water.

 

Have rigged up the top piece of the broken mast.

 

Looks weird. But not as bad as the Cermaco effort (which worked well).

 

G4 should manage 3rd.

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Now we see while Iker won Olympic gold.

 

He has found a new route forward and is now passing Puma!!

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Does seem a bit odd that Tele didn't try to mix it up a little more at the end there....

Realize there wasn't a whole lot of port gybe left in it but there was some...

 

Huh?

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Congratulation PUMA.

Well done!

 

Gracias Iker y compañía, nos habéis hecho soñar!

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Groupama's jury rig:

555000_10150661563047058_48801457057_9452958_844586452_n.jpg

 

Well done to Puma!

One on the pics I noticed Puma's headsail is a bit fuller then Tele's, thats probably why they where able to sail just a little bit deeper.

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Congrats to Puma for an awesome leg!

And for New England Boatworks for building her right!!

Nice job Kenny and the boys!

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Way to go Puma ! They can finally take a full breath now after holding it for a couple of weeks.

 

" So who came in third ? "

 

" there is no third your majesty, nor fourth , fifth or sixth " :)

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Way to go Puma ! They can finally take a full breath now after holding it for a couple of weeks.

 

 

And eat something.

Puma ran out of food a few days ago.

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Groupama's jury rig:

555000_10150661563047058_48801457057_9452958_844586452_n.jpg

 

Well done to Puma!

One on the pics I noticed Puma's headsail is a bit fuller then Tele's, thats probably why they where able to sail just a little bit deeper.

 

"It's warrantied for 650 miles or 48 hours, whichever comes first.....................................

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Good operation for Groupama that Puma won, Tele is only getting 5 points more than they will probably get.

A pity to see that boat with such a small mast though....

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Mean while the weather window for the Horn becomes increasingly nasty

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Mean while the weather window for the Horn becomes increasingly nasty

 

Not what Nico says.

 

Camper are nearly ready to go.

 

And feel the weather has shifted in their favour.

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Will Groupama cut existing sails into a size suitable for the truncated mast?

Or what?

 

Remember, there are limits on the number of sails allowed (hence the protest against Telefonica)

 

Seems sacriligeous to hack down good sails to fit a temporary mast?

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I reckon they will have to sacrifice one. Will be interesting to see the photos. I doubt they'll even fly a foresail.

 

How many miles was it?

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The tracker shows Groupama (with bags of croissants) are now chugging back out to their "suspended racing spot."

 

Good for them to lighten their fuel tanks by using a bit of diesel.

But even better for Camper who have a much longer stretch of motoring ahead.

 

Are there any details on the ship taking AD round the Horn? Will the AD guys (on the ship) get a chance to wave at the Camper guys (under sail)?

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I reckon they will have to sacrifice one. Will be interesting to see the photos. I doubt they'll even fly a foresail.

 

How many miles was it?

 

 

 

650 miles.

 

They will want to get it over ASAP.

 

And get the new mast in and tuned before the pro-am (waste of time) and in-port races.

 

I have seen the G4 shore crew at work. Impressive.

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Mean while the weather window for the Horn becomes increasingly nasty

 

Not what Nico says.

 

Camper are nearly ready to go.

 

And feel the weather has shifted in their favour.

 

 

Weather a mixed bag, but at least no 50 kt storms forecast.

max 45kts forecast for the horn on the 9th (see pic below)

SW and then light forecast for getting out and south from Puerto Montt.

 

post-8534-040812300 1333758081_thumb.jpg

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Weather a mixed bag, but at least no 50 kt storms forecast.

max 45kts forecast for the horn on the 9th (see pic below)

SW and then light forecast for getting out and south from Puerto Montt.

 

 

 

Yep, this pretty close to what Nico says in the latest etnz blog.

 

Now the question is - can Camper make it to Itajai for the in-port race?

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Last stage of curing underway in Puerto Montt.

 

At the same time, the sailing crew are in there with vacuum cleaners.

 

Sucking out carbon dust, loading their stuff and getting ready to go.

 

Grant will leave Chile for Italy.

 

To give those AC45 guys a pep talk!

post-29902-026796300 1333759460_thumb.jpg

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fresh

 

 

Interesting video from the paradise that is Porto Montt. If I could describe it in one word it would be...........defensive. GD biting his tongue once or twice during his interview was informative as well. ;)

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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fresh .... TNZ video from Puerto Montt

 

 

In this latest video, Hamish asks GD and Nico what all the breakages mean.

 

Grant thinks engineers might not have properly understood boat speed. Circles around the notion there might be changes to the rule.

 

Nico compares the VOR to F1 car racing. Says the public expects to see drama. Camper has done over 30,000 nm. Hence, despite the break, it is "reliable."

 

Breakdowns and drama are part of the deal.

 

Grant does not consider G4 relevant to the current Camper task.

 

"They will be in Itajai well ahead of TNZ etc etc".

 

Dalts and Nico look more rested now. Compared to before.

 

Puerto Montt looks like it might be alright.

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Interesting video from the paradise that is Porto Montt. If I could describe it in one word it would be...........defensive. GD biting his tongue once or twice during his interview was informative as well. ;)

 

WetHog :ph34r:

Intuitive.

 

When GD flew in to Sanya, a situation that competitively was as anti-paradise on some level even if the location was a million times better equipped, many of us expected he would shit-can several of the crew. But he said he he found them tight and chose not to, and explained it that way. Hats off to GD for recognizing the importance of that.

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Both VOR boats in Puerto Montt look like leaving today. Last reported, ADOR was scheduled to load on a container ship and depart Saturday and Camper guys are saying they'll be setting off the same day, late afternoon NZ time.

 

Both teams are estimating nine to ten days for the 2,800-mile passage around Cape Horn. So, looks like a new race within a race to see who gets first to Itajai.

 

Big differences though.

 

Kiwis are in full race mode and expect to arrive in time for the in-port race but with very little break time before the start of the next leg.

 

Abu Dhabi expect to do their major repair work in Itajai and but also make the in-port race. Meanwhile their crew has flown home for a week of r&r

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When GD flew in to Sanya, a situation that competitively was as anti-paradise on some level even if the location was a million times better equipped, many of us expected he would shit-can several of the crew. But he said he he found them tight and chose not to, and explained it that way. Hats off to GD for recognizing the importance of that.

 

 

If you read the books coming out of his F & P and Endeavour campaigns you see GD considers "tightness" important.

 

During one of those campaigns there was a bloke who thought it was his syndicate. They tried negotiating but, in the end, the rebel had to go.

 

In this campaign, they went on that punishing trip to Gisborne right after the boat was launched. This was the trip where Hamish spewed his guts, Nico confessed to seasickness and Adam Minoprio must have wondered what he was in for.

 

But, out of adversity comes solidarity. And that is what they now have.

You can see it in the laid-back and laconic humour of their video dispatches (eg. Trae's cocktail party - very funny).

 

When I went on their boat (in Auckland) they were grey with exhaustion. But not lacking in humour.

 

It is a major adventure. And a privilege to be chosen.

 

I reckon Kenny Read's comments (after today's victory) capture the situation quite well.

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Interesting video from the paradise that is Porto Montt. If I could describe it in one word it would be...........defensive. GD biting his tongue once or twice during his interview was informative as well. ;)

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Dunno what you saw that I didn't.

 

If I could describe it in one word it would be..............measured.

 

Certainly not Dalts in full take-no-prisoners mode but, as you note, an informative and off-the-cuff 75 seconds straight to camera.

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I reckon they will have to sacrifice one. Will be interesting to see the photos. I doubt they'll even fly a foresail.

 

How many miles was it?

 

 

 

650 miles.

 

They will want to get it over ASAP.

 

And get the new mast in and tuned before the pro-am (waste of time) and in-port races.

 

I have seen the G4 shore crew at work. Impressive.

 

They already cut the main to get the rig back on board, so it is already trashed and modifying it will not hurt now.

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fresh

 

 

Interesting video from the paradise that is Porto Montt. If I could describe it in one word it would be...........defensive. GD biting his tongue once or twice during his interview was informative as well. ;)

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

After having publicaly thrown MB under the bus for Camper's performance he's probably humbled by the fact that TNZ did the structural design of the boat.

 

"Loads weren't necessarily correctly calculated by the engineers". Talk about karma, I think he's got some well deserved teeth marks in his ass right about now.

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TelefonicallegaItaja%25C3%25AD1.jpg

 

Itajaimasts.jpg

 

Have the VOR boats have dispensation of have crew outside the lifelines?

 

Note the guy on the bowspit in the first photo.

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Interesting video from the paradise that is Porto Montt. If I could describe it in one word it would be...........defensive. GD biting his tongue once or twice during his interview was informative as well. ;)

 

WetHog :ph34r:

Intuitive.

 

When GD flew in to Sanya, a situation that competitively was as anti-paradise on some level even if the location was a million times better equipped, many of us expected he would shit-can several of the crew. But he said he he found them tight and chose not to, and explained it that way. Hats off to GD for recognizing the importance of that.

+1

Despite all the drama and Camper clearly losing the leg that they went out to win, it's gripping to watch their journey, see their team spirit and humor. Great way to sell shoes. "Told you so." wink.gif

 

 

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Mean while the weather window for the Horn becomes increasingly nasty

 

Not what Nico says.

 

Camper are nearly ready to go.

 

And feel the weather has shifted in their favour.

You need to take the air temperature into account. Racing in 2degrees/20knots is very different from 20 knots in 7 degrees and different again in 40knots plus gusts and sea state. As mentioned before the window is closing.

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G4 doing well with their truncated mast. Could Larry learn from this? Slimmed down might be better.

 

Interesting to see the video from Puerto Montt.

 

Ian Walker's cargo ship taxi is delayed by weather and cannot leave PM on Saturday. Instead, will be Tuesday at the earliest. Pressure!!!!

 

PM looks very much like a port in western Canada or the PNW of the USA.

 

Fishboats (wheelhouse forward) look like a Vancouver (or Seattle) design.

 

Also interesting to see Salty out there working as a boat builder - alongside the guys flown in from Akld.

 

These Camper guys definitely have the kiwi/GD work ethic.

It is admirable if they can work under this kind of pressure without getting shitty with each other.

 

They have such a long way to go.

 

However, Nico said if they run into outrageous weather it will be "back off" time.

 

At Itajai I hear the familiar voice of Hannah White urging on the crowds.

 

It all looks very much like Akld. Globalisation!!!

 

Except, in Akld we had Hannah White + boats (all of 'em). So far, Itajai has Hannah White + only 2 boats!

 

Also, does Hannah realise the official language of Brazil is not Her Majesty's English?

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GroupanaJuryrigNoboom.jpg

 

Gracias Seis.

Looks like a sailboard sail, and the mast is thin. I am sure they don't want to break another one "

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I reckon citizens of Itajai will give Groupama a big welcome.

Cammas et al deserve it!

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Ian Walker is sitting in PM - bored, eating Easter eggs and wondering if the ship was the right strategy.

 

This is what happens when you put yourself into the hands of others.

Very, very frustrating.

 

Even if he gets to Itajai before the in-port race, can he guys rip out the collapsed section of the hull (with all the bolts) and glue in something better?

 

After witnessing the Camper model, I wonder if Ian is now having 2nd thoughts about the "repair in Itajai" plan.

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Dogwatch rightly claims an April Fools joke must be credible. You must be "taken in" by it.

 

In the VOR the Groupama one-person-on-deck show had enough credibility to deceive quite a few SA posters.

 

But now it is no longer a joke. The joke is now the way of getting to Itajai.

Cammas does not want an exhausted crew in Itajai. So, some have been dumped from the boat and will get up the coast in a rental car! (or on an aircraft).

 

As for the remainder, they are not pressing too hard. After all, Camper is more than 5 minutes back.

 

So, it is catch up on your sleep time. Do not mess with sails unless absolutely necessary.

 

And yes, just one bloke on deck during afternoon nap time.

 

Yet they are still doing up to 15 knots.

 

Merci beaucoup!

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As for the remainder, they are not pressing too hard. After all, Camper is more than 5 minutes back.

 

 

Well it they made up 2300 miles that quickly I guess GD owes MB a pretty big apology (probably does anyway).

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FC and co. looking well pleased in the latest vid, as they should.

1. they get a podium place and plenty of time in itajaj

2. at no great expense to their budget

3. crew gets r&r

4. no major structural issues, no shipping, easy trip for shore crew

5. new rig and main probably an existing line item

6. and the others know they are as tough as any for the win.

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Ian Walker is sitting in PM - bored, eating Easter eggs and wondering if the ship was the right strategy.

 

This is what happens when you put yourself into the hands of others.

Very, very frustrating.

 

Even if he gets to Itajai before the in-port race, can the guys rip out the collapsed section of the hull (with all the bolts) and glue in something better?

 

After witnessing the Camper model, I wonder if Ian is now having 2nd thoughts about the "repair in Itajai" plan.

Late arrival in Puerto Montt mitigated against repair there. Meanwhile, most crew get a week off at home while two shore crew travel on the ship with the boat, continuing on the work list. New core panels being fabricated to shape for both sides!

 

It's going to be touch and go, that's fer sure.

 

Meanwhile Camper is making tracks. Forecast around the Horn looks pretty snotty but at least it's following breeze.

 

Do we know the name of the vessel Abu Dhabi is shipping on? If it's GPS-trackable we can follow the two-horse race to Itajai.

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Camper wants to get around the Horn by April 11th.

 

Because there is a nasty low (with 60k winds) coming through on the 12th.

 

They also want to beat the AD ship into Itajai!

 

It is supposed to leave PM on Tuesday but will take a shortcut through the Straits of Magellan.

 

However, if the ship passes Camper in open ocean, the TNZ boys know what to do.

If not, they should ask Dun Mihaka !!!

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Camper wants to get around the Horn by April 11th.

 

Because there is a nasty low (with 60k winds) coming through on the 12th.

 

They also want to beat the AD ship into Itajai!

 

It is supposed to leave PM on Tuesday but will take a shortcut through the Straits of Magellan.

 

However, if the ship passes Camper in open ocean, the TNZ boys know what to do.

If not, they should ask Dun Mihaka !!!

 

Not at those temperatures!!

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Yike...

 

 

Stapled sailor back as good as new

m15671_crop18_608x404_1333576788CB11.jpg Yann Riou/Groupama Sailing Team/Volvo Ocean Race

Groupama bowman Brad Marsh needed five staples in his wrist, as well as treatment for shock, after accidentally plunging a knife in his wrist in the immediate aftermath of the team's dismasting on Leg 5.

Marsh revealed the extent of his injury for the first time in a video from the boat, released after the team -- with a recovered Marsh on board -- resumed racing under jury rig on their way to the finish line in Itajaí.

 

"I had to climb up what was remaining of the mast and cut away the mainsail," the New Zealander Marsh explained. "In the process of cutting away the mainsail i managed to cut my wrist.

 

"As I had my arms around the mast, the knife had gone into the wrist and i had to pull the knife back out. I knew it was quite deep into the wrist and you could see it was long. I was very, very nervous and when I returned to the deck apparently I was as white as a ghost."

 

Martin Krite and Martin Stromberg, two of Groupama's on board medics, took him below deck to treat him.

 

"When Brad came down the rig we realised something was wrong," said Krite. "There was quite a bit of blood coming down from the rig and we could see from Brad's eyes that he was in shock.

 

"After talking to our team doctor we decided to staple him together. We rook out the staple gun and put five staples in him and now he's as good as new, I think."

 

Groupama are on course to finish Leg 5 and collect 20 points for third place on Tuesday.

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Bravo à tout l'équipage de Groupama, vous méritiez la première marche du podium, mais votre troisième place est héroîque !

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Camper banging to the empty spot behind big waves.

Anxious looks into the forepeak.

 

But confidence is building.

 

Into "furious 50s" but should make it round before the really big stuff arrives.

 

Any news on Abu Dhabi?

 

Apart from Ian Walker being on prozac!

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camper coming up to the horn now

 

reaching at 15knots in winds of 15knots

 

in 24hrs the 35knot winds will be where they are now

 

so it looks good for them to stay in front of the low

 

 

like a big multi

 

just not as tough

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I really hope that the slow down and turn East thing near the Falklands is just a tracker glitch... fingers crossed.

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If Juan K says that the stop was tactical, then WHY the support boat and all the hassles of getting charter and builders and gear and replacement parts to the Cape bay. If it was really a tactical stop, then you'd just do it. BS maybe??

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I really hope that the slow down and turn East thing near the Falklands is just a tracker glitch... fingers crossed.

 

if you play with the wind predictor

 

it seems they are trying to avoid the light winds in the eye?

 

 

 

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