Rawhide

Older fast Aus multies

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Sorry to have offended you Bill,

I most definitely respect your opinion

 

I am not quite sure how 58 is half of 60 though

I am a big fan of comparing apples with apples. Raw nerve was a flat out race build which grew to 58ft after the initial sailing phase, an ORMA is a flatout race build at 60ft . Apples me thinks

And I seem to remember a quote on build as around 3million(could be wrong)

Add to that 4or 5 rigs at I am guessing maybe 300 or so (again memory)

10 centreboards at between 5-10.

Was intended to sail without spinnakers, were added later.... 3or4 mainsails for what I'd guess what would have struggled to be 20,000 miles. Happy to be corrected on any of this.

 

So I guess my point is, maybe the bucks could have been better spent. I still am of the opinion that Crepes(the 50)would have given the nerve a touch up for less money and less risk

 

And only to protect my frail ego, but I did once upon a time sail on a much, much faster multi then Nerve. I even have had a little to do with your boat in the past Bill, which I was always of the opinion would have given Raw Nerve a scare.

 

My post was my opinion but not a completely uninformed one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All relative,

 

Raw Nerve at 58ft with its huge build, repair and modification budget was fast, seriously fast.....

 

Was it even close to a ORMA 60 tri at the same or less money, no way, no how.

Was it as fast as a Open 50 Tri at seriously less money...... no way

 

Ergo, fast but still a brick relatively.

Way harsh! And neither fair nor accurate.

Raw Nerve was the fastest boat in Australia for some years. Probably faster than any boat you've sailed.

As fast as an ORMA 60? No. But Raw Nerve is half the size, less than half the cost, etc., etc., of an ORMA 60. Why does it need to be faster than an ORMA? An ORMA isn't as fast as Gitana XIII, but it doesn't make an ORMA a "brick" either. THere's always a bigger faster boat for enough money. Compare the "new" costs and annual operating costs to appreciate the huge price of an ORMA 60 vs. Raw Nerve.

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I thought it was both Stuart and Brett

From Memory, it was Crowther design that won the design award in 2000 for the Southern Ocean 50.

Of course that may just be reference to Stuart working for that company at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't Stuart design RN. Rondeshoooooo (however it's spelt) Surreal / quickstep.....series of boats....?

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Sorry to have offended you Bill,

I most definitely respect your opinion

 

I am not quite sure how 58 is half of 60 though

I am a big fan of comparing apples with apples. Raw nerve was a flat out race build which grew to 58ft after the initial sailing phase, an ORMA is a flatout race build at 60ft . Apples me thinks

And I seem to remember a quote on build as around 3million(could be wrong)

Add to that 4or 5 rigs at I am guessing maybe 300 or so (again memory)

10 centreboards at between 5-10.

Was intended to sail without spinnakers, were added later.... 3or4 mainsails for what I'd guess what would have struggled to be 20,000 miles. Happy to be corrected on any of this.

 

So I guess my point is, maybe the bucks could have been better spent. I still am of the opinion that Crepes(the 50)would have given the nerve a touch up for less money and less risk

 

And only to protect my frail ego, but I did once upon a time sail on a much, much faster multi then Nerve. I even have had a little to do with your boat in the past Bill, which I was always of the opinion would have given Raw Nerve a scare.

 

My post was my opinion but not a completely uninformed one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All relative,

 

Raw Nerve at 58ft with its huge build, repair and modification budget was fast, seriously fast.....

 

Was it even close to a ORMA 60 tri at the same or less money, no way, no how.

Was it as fast as a Open 50 Tri at seriously less money...... no way

 

Ergo, fast but still a brick relatively.

Way harsh! And neither fair nor accurate.

Raw Nerve was the fastest boat in Australia for some years. Probably faster than any boat you've sailed.

As fast as an ORMA 60? No. But Raw Nerve is half the size, less than half the cost, etc., etc., of an ORMA 60. Why does it need to be faster than an ORMA? An ORMA isn't as fast as Gitana XIII, but it doesn't make an ORMA a "brick" either. THere's always a bigger faster boat for enough money. Compare the "new" costs and annual operating costs to appreciate the huge price of an ORMA 60 vs. Raw Nerve.

And I didn't mean to sound too testy.

Raw Nerve was stretched to 58'x 30'? An ORMA 60 is 60x60? You can fit two Raw Nerves in the space occupied by an ORMA, with non-linear squared proportions in sail areas, hull structures, rig loads and every other cost factor. An ORMA is a huge boat by comparison. You can fit 2.3 Afterburners at 52x30 in an ORMA space.

I think we get mislead talking about LWL as if that indicates the size of a boat.

I looked at a new South Ocean 50 in 2000, I think they quoted me about $1m. I'll take the estimate of $3m for a new ORMA. Tritium was quoted over $100k for a new centerboard recently. Everything is big and expensive. A 20T furler. Afterburner uses a 4T furler. Loads scale up exponentially.

Back then my cat was a Crowther, so I was something of a fan. But instead I bought Afterburner delivered for about $150k partially because I was afraid of "new" designs, and Raw Nerve went on to have her problems. I've had a great time with Afterburner, though there are not many things I haven't broken and rebuilt.

Of course on the used market things are a whole lot cheaper. Rotnguu was offered up for $300k

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I think rotenguu sold for a lot less than $300,000.

I think the front beam forward was part of the design problem. It tended to hit waves when pressed. Always easy in hindsight.

The crowther 50 in NZ 888 (ex wahoo) has the beam back under the mast. Does any one know how 888 performs. I thing she is around the same speed as taeping the old grainger 11.6m cat. (fast boat)

I wonder if the hull design is a bit too fine above the water line causing them to bog down too much and overload the boat.

Still fantastic boats. A hell of alot of ormas broke when they first came out.

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A friend of mine sailed on Rotonguooooo when it was first built. He said it was a handstander.

Perhaps too fine an entry point with the blob on top of the hull slowing things up close to the point of no return.

Still they were relatively faster than most multis in Aus at the time.

You could check the Coastal Cliasic results to see if 888 stacks up to the Grainger or maybe someone across the ditch will know.

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Sorry to have offended you Bill,

I most definitely respect your opinion

 

I am not quite sure how 58 is half of 60 though

I am a big fan of comparing apples with apples. Raw nerve was a flat out race build which grew to 58ft after the initial sailing phase, an ORMA is a flatout race build at 60ft . Apples me thinks

And I seem to remember a quote on build as around 3million(could be wrong)

Add to that 4or 5 rigs at I am guessing maybe 300 or so (again memory)

10 centreboards at between 5-10.

Was intended to sail without spinnakers, were added later.... 3or4 mainsails for what I'd guess what would have struggled to be 20,000 miles. Happy to be corrected on any of this.

 

So I guess my point is, maybe the bucks could have been better spent. I still am of the opinion that Crepes(the 50)would have given the nerve a touch up for less money and less risk

 

And only to protect my frail ego, but I did once upon a time sail on a much, much faster multi then Nerve. I even have had a little to do with your boat in the past Bill, which I was always of the opinion would have given Raw Nerve a scare.

 

My post was my opinion but not a completely uninformed one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All relative,

 

Raw Nerve at 58ft with its huge build, repair and modification budget was fast, seriously fast.....

 

Was it even close to a ORMA 60 tri at the same or less money, no way, no how.

Was it as fast as a Open 50 Tri at seriously less money...... no way

 

Ergo, fast but still a brick relatively.

Way harsh! And neither fair nor accurate.

Raw Nerve was the fastest boat in Australia for some years. Probably faster than any boat you've sailed.

As fast as an ORMA 60? No. But Raw Nerve is half the size, less than half the cost, etc., etc., of an ORMA 60. Why does it need to be faster than an ORMA? An ORMA isn't as fast as Gitana XIII, but it doesn't make an ORMA a "brick" either. THere's always a bigger faster boat for enough money. Compare the "new" costs and annual operating costs to appreciate the huge price of an ORMA 60 vs. Raw Nerve.

And I didn't mean to sound too testy.

Raw Nerve was stretched to 58'x 30'? An ORMA 60 is 60x60? You can fit two Raw Nerves in the space occupied by an ORMA, with non-linear squared proportions in sail areas, hull structures, rig loads and every other cost factor. An ORMA is a huge boat by comparison. You can fit 2.3 Afterburners at 52x30 in an ORMA space.

I think we get mislead talking about LWL as if that indicates the size of a boat.

I looked at a new South Ocean 50 in 2000, I think they quoted me about $1m. I'll take the estimate of $3m for a new ORMA. Tritium was quoted over $100k for a new centerboard recently. Everything is big and expensive. A 20T furler. Afterburner uses a 4T furler. Loads scale up exponentially.

Back then my cat was a Crowther, so I was something of a fan. But instead I bought Afterburner delivered for about $150k partially because I was afraid of "new" designs, and Raw Nerve went on to have her problems. I've had a great time with Afterburner, though there are not many things I haven't broken and rebuilt.

Of course on the used market things are a whole lot cheaper. Rotnguu was offered up for $300k

 

 

Bill you are right.....ORMA 60 are way bigger than SO50's and are as you say worth 3 x $. Crepes 50 was also a lot bigger, way more expensive and faster than RN. The Southern Ocean 50 were not a failure but not a success either. Martin probably spent more than he anticipated dew to early design faults and the now infamous beam break which was attributed to the beaching of the boat on it's delivery to Sydney by Paul Nudd, others say Mal Harts build, some blame the design, either way the loser was Martin and it cost him a year and a bunch of $. pictures shown above. The design had be to lengthened as it regularly tried to dive to the bottom and yes Drew the front beam when buried was big enough that it could stop the boat forcing handstands on many occasions. Brett and Stuart I'm sure went through hell at that time but to their credit they persisted. Bretts own boat Sereeal was a work in progress and many feel not a success at the time.

 

In summery.....SO 50 is not comparable to the orma 60 / 50 in speed or $. The Cat Vs Tri debate will go on but i feel the choice comes down to the intended use and conditions faced.

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Sorry to have offended you Bill,

I most definitely respect your opinion

 

I am not quite sure how 58 is half of 60 though

I am a big fan of comparing apples with apples. Raw nerve was a flat out race build which grew to 58ft after the initial sailing phase, an ORMA is a flatout race build at 60ft . Apples me thinks

And I seem to remember a quote on build as around 3million(could be wrong)

Add to that 4or 5 rigs at I am guessing maybe 300 or so (again memory)

10 centreboards at between 5-10.

Was intended to sail without spinnakers, were added later.... 3or4 mainsails for what I'd guess what would have struggled to be 20,000 miles. Happy to be corrected on any of this.

 

So I guess my point is, maybe the bucks could have been better spent. I still am of the opinion that Crepes(the 50)would have given the nerve a touch up for less money and less risk

 

And only to protect my frail ego, but I did once upon a time sail on a much, much faster multi then Nerve. I even have had a little to do with your boat in the past Bill, which I was always of the opinion would have given Raw Nerve a scare.

 

My post was my opinion but not a completely uninformed one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All relative,

 

Raw Nerve at 58ft with its huge build, repair and modification budget was fast, seriously fast.....

 

Was it even close to a ORMA 60 tri at the same or less money, no way, no how.

Was it as fast as a Open 50 Tri at seriously less money...... no way

 

Ergo, fast but still a brick relatively.

Way harsh! And neither fair nor accurate.

Raw Nerve was the fastest boat in Australia for some years. Probably faster than any boat you've sailed.

As fast as an ORMA 60? No. But Raw Nerve is half the size, less than half the cost, etc., etc., of an ORMA 60. Why does it need to be faster than an ORMA? An ORMA isn't as fast as Gitana XIII, but it doesn't make an ORMA a "brick" either. THere's always a bigger faster boat for enough money. Compare the "new" costs and annual operating costs to appreciate the huge price of an ORMA 60 vs. Raw Nerve.

And I didn't mean to sound too testy.

Raw Nerve was stretched to 58'x 30'? An ORMA 60 is 60x60? You can fit two Raw Nerves in the space occupied by an ORMA, with non-linear squared proportions in sail areas, hull structures, rig loads and every other cost factor. An ORMA is a huge boat by comparison. You can fit 2.3 Afterburners at 52x30 in an ORMA space.

I think we get mislead talking about LWL as if that indicates the size of a boat.

I looked at a new South Ocean 50 in 2000, I think they quoted me about $1m. I'll take the estimate of $3m for a new ORMA. Tritium was quoted over $100k for a new centerboard recently. Everything is big and expensive. A 20T furler. Afterburner uses a 4T furler. Loads scale up exponentially.

Back then my cat was a Crowther, so I was something of a fan. But instead I bought Afterburner delivered for about $150k partially because I was afraid of "new" designs, and Raw Nerve went on to have her problems. I've had a great time with Afterburner, though there are not many things I haven't broken and rebuilt.

Of course on the used market things are a whole lot cheaper. Rotnguu was offered up for $300k

 

 

Bill you are right.....ORMA 60 are way bigger than SO50's and are as you say worth 3 x $. Crepes 50 was also a lot bigger, way more expensive and faster than RN. The Southern Ocean 50 were not a failure but not a success either. Martin probably spent more than he anticipated dew to early design faults and the now infamous beam break which was attributed to the beaching of the boat on it's delivery to Sydney by Paul Nudd, others say Mal Harts build, some blame the design, either way the loser was Martin and it cost him a year and a bunch of $. pictures shown above. The design had be to lengthened as it regularly tried to dive to the bottom and yes Drew the front beam when buried was big enough that it could stop the boat forcing handstands on many occasions. Brett and Stuart I'm sure went through hell at that time but to their credit they persisted. Bretts own boat Sereeal was a work in progress and many feel not a success at the time.

 

In summery.....SO 50 is not comparable to the orma 60 / 50 in speed or $. The Cat Vs Tri debate will go on but i feel the choice comes down to the intended use and conditions faced.

I'd want to see some real numbers in terms of cost before being convinced that a Multi50 trimaran like Crepes is significantly more expensive build than Raw Nerve. The boats physically bigger in dimension in terms of beam but how much comparative surface area and difference in displacement? The Multi50's rule dictates that they are constructed mostly in foam/glass not carbon they only have carbon as reinforcement in some areas. An ORMA would certainly cost a lot more to build than Raw Nerve though and the 3 million figure sounds reasonable.

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Was just reading the light hearted banter between Doug L and CO in the radio controlled multis thread when searching images I came across this link so I thought I would post it. I think it has been done before but who cares. Don't know how to post movie here but go to link and click on Verbatim. Bit of a nostalgia. Still up for sale? Don't start the shit about buy an ad cause I only wished I did own it.

Enjoy http://currentsunshine.com/?p=178

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I thought that the spinnaker looked a little light for that breeze! Thy had to hide the remnants out of shot for the rest of the film!

 

Was just reading the light hearted banter between Doug L and CO in the radio controlled multis thread when searching images I came across this link so I thought I would post it. I think it has been done before but who cares. Don't know how to post movie here but go to link and click on Verbatim. Bit of a nostalgia. Still up for sale? Don't start the shit about buy an ad cause I only wished I did own it.

Enjoy http://currentsunshine.com/?p=178

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Back in the day any luff would could cause them to explode which in that clip I expected it a couple times. Luckily sticky back was on hand and they were quite easy to fix.

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I found a snap of Shotover 2, probably only 1 year old

 

What is the owner doing with it....anybody

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yep Bill Sailsbury ( multi legend around our way) owns it. he is in his late 80s now. he also owns Nusa Dua the Barrink 34 pod cat. someone please buy it and rescue it! any half reasonable offer would most likely take it off Bill's hands

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I found a snap of Shotover 2, probably only 1 year old

thats my dear old dad on the bow! he used to sail it with Bill and Dave Bishop before Dave got Rapid Ride in the water, it was like all the grandfathers of Multis out together chasing us young bucks!

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Hey GB

 

Your are confusing me now because that listing on yacht hub is for a Rodgers and Shotover 2 is a Crowther

So which is which The Rodgers is Ultra Mud Bug as I recall, cant remember what Adrian called first up but remember when it was first launched and the sticks came down at the AMOC in Scarborough the year Nuddy one on another legend XL2.

Coffin yachtin at its finest.

 

[url=http://qikr.co/zc55p]1nusa20dua93699.jpg

Nusa Dua Start ofB2G

 

[url=http://qikr.co/sgvbs]p614008956301.jpg

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Hey Y, sorry for butting in but know a little about the shotovers, the first I think was a crowther super shock wave at 60ft, shotover2 was built by Adrian and was his design after he sailed a mid twenty ft version, shot over 2 actually won Gladstone even after dropping its fwd mast at break sea as well, very fast boat on a reach, ultra mudbug was his last design and yes did drop her rig I think in the AMOC off Scarborough

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Wow so XL2 actually sailed ! (looks like unfinished project) I have seen it on & off for sale and regularly drove past it near Laureton, where it has sat at a mooring for yonks.

 

Still there...

 

post-1974-0-91649700-1370517792_thumb.jpg

 

post-1974-0-33998300-1370517805_thumb.jpg

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Hey GB

 

Your are confusing me now because that listing on yacht hub is for a Rodgers and Shotover 2 is a Crowther

So which is which The Rodgers is Ultra Mud Bug as I recall, cant remember what Adrian called first up but remember when it was first launched and the sticks came down at the AMOC in Scarborough the year Nuddy one on another legend XL2.

Coffin yachtin at its finest.

 

[url=http://qikr.co/zc55p]1nusa20dua93699.jpg

Nusa Dua Start ofB2G

 

[url=http://qikr.co/sgvbs]p614008956301.jpg

 

Haven't you asked that question before, Im not going down that path again,

I know you do your research, something about a major upgrade/rebuild, I think

Not too many double masted cats around of that vintage

I know its a fast cat, Ive seen it sailing, even in present condition

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No I haven't asked that question before. Is that the garden path?

 

Shotover 2 is a 40ft Crowther twin masted dropped front mast and won a glady as faza says

I sailed on the 60 ft shotover for some time with Harvey now doing dolphin charters in WA

 

Untra Mud Bug is one of Adrians own designs built some time after shotover I believe.

Remember the first time he parked it at Mooloolaba and then competed in AMOC and dropped the masts either first or second race.

 

I am just trying to work out if it is shotover 2 or the later mud bug that is for sale.

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No I haven't asked that question before. Is that the garden path?

 

Shotover 2 is a 40ft Crowther twin masted dropped front mast and won a glady as faza says

I sailed on the 60 ft shotover for some time with Harvey now doing dolphin charters in WA

 

Untra Mud Bug is one of Adrians own designs built some time after shotover I believe.

Remember the first time he parked it at Mooloolaba and then competed in AMOC and dropped the masts either first or second race.

 

I am just trying to work out if it is shotover 2 or the later mud bug that is for sale.

Shotover 2 is for sale and its so certainly not a crowther design. As previously indicated its Adrian's design.

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Wow so XL2 actually sailed ! (looks like unfinished project) I have seen it on & off for sale and regularly drove past it near Laureton, where it has sat at a mooring for yonks.

 

Still there...

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0133.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0135.JPG

Owned by friends that separated during the rebuild of this iconic Crowther cat. still owned by both of them. it will sort its self out in time.

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No I haven't asked that question before. Is that the garden path?

 

Shotover 2 is a 40ft Crowther twin masted dropped front mast and won a glady as faza says

I sailed on the 60 ft shotover for some time with Harvey now doing dolphin charters in WA

 

Untra Mud Bug is one of Adrians own designs built some time after shotover I believe.

Remember the first time he parked it at Mooloolaba and then competed in AMOC and dropped the masts either first or second race.

 

I am just trying to work out if it is shotover 2 or the later mud bug that is for sale.

Shotover 2 is for sale and its so certainly not a crowther design. As previously indicated its Adrian's design.

 

Thanks My mistake I thought Shotover 2 was a Crowther

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Wow so XL2 actually sailed ! (looks like unfinished project) I have seen it on & off for sale and regularly drove past it near Laureton, where it has sat at a mooring for yonks.

 

Still there...

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0133.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0135.JPG

Owned by friends that separated during the rebuild of this iconic Crowther cat. still owned by both of them. it will sort its self out in time.

 

Man I hope so.....She was one powerful boat offshore in a blow and Nudd used to have go....... .So sad to see these things not used. We could start a thread on the many jems minding moorings.

XL2..Shotover 2...Matchless...Raw Nerv and that's just in NSW

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Wow so XL2 actually sailed ! (looks like unfinished project) I have seen it on & off for sale and regularly drove past it near Laureton, where it has sat at a mooring for yonks.

 

Still there...

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0133.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0135.JPG

Owned by friends that separated during the rebuild of this iconic Crowther cat. still owned by both of them. it will sort its self out in time.

 

Man I hope so.....She was one powerful boat offshore in a blow and Nudd used to have go....... .So sad to see these things not used. We could start a thread on the many jems minding moorings.

XL2..Shotover 2...Matchless...Raw Nerv and that's just in NSW

 

Sumtin 2 do with the cost of running these exciting machines - insurance, gear replacement, latest sails, rigging, electronics etc etc

nothing like the old days of racing around the bouys on a lazy saturday arvo with a few mates

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D flawless was the fastest multi in Brisbane - possibly Australia when I started sailing in the very early 80's.That boat used to do horizon jobs on the entire fleet.ended up on the bottom of the ocean after hitting a shipping container/whale? on the way back from NZ,.read the book years ago , good read.

D Flawless did not end up on the bottom of the ocean. It was made of Kevlar/Foam. It broke up into big and little pieces most of which floated and ended up on various beaches around East Coast Australia.

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Taipeng < Spelling is a Grainger. Lock Crowther's son ( Brett I think his name is ) still designs fast multi's

Brett Crowther is Locks eldest son and he designs fast powercats, ferries etc. Stuart Bloomfield took over the sailing designs and moved to Melbourne where he still designs fast multis.

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Sorry to have offended you Bill,

I most definitely respect your opinion

 

I am not quite sure how 58 is half of 60 though

I am a big fan of comparing apples with apples. Raw nerve was a flat out race build which grew to 58ft after the initial sailing phase, an ORMA is a flatout race build at 60ft . Apples me thinks

And I seem to remember a quote on build as around 3million(could be wrong)

Add to that 4or 5 rigs at I am guessing maybe 300 or so (again memory)

10 centreboards at between 5-10.

Was intended to sail without spinnakers, were added later.... 3or4 mainsails for what I'd guess what would have struggled to be 20,000 miles. Happy to be corrected on any of this.

 

So I guess my point is, maybe the bucks could have been better spent. I still am of the opinion that Crepes(the 50)would have given the nerve a touch up for less money and less risk

 

And only to protect my frail ego, but I did once upon a time sail on a much, much faster multi then Nerve. I even have had a little to do with your boat in the past Bill, which I was always of the opinion would have given Raw Nerve a scare.

 

My post was my opinion but not a completely uninformed one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All relative,

 

Raw Nerve at 58ft with its huge build, repair and modification budget was fast, seriously fast.....

 

Was it even close to a ORMA 60 tri at the same or less money, no way, no how.

Was it as fast as a Open 50 Tri at seriously less money...... no way

 

Ergo, fast but still a brick relatively.

Way harsh! And neither fair nor accurate.

Raw Nerve was the fastest boat in Australia for some years. Probably faster than any boat you've sailed.

As fast as an ORMA 60? No. But Raw Nerve is half the size, less than half the cost, etc., etc., of an ORMA 60. Why does it need to be faster than an ORMA? An ORMA isn't as fast as Gitana XIII, but it doesn't make an ORMA a "brick" either. THere's always a bigger faster boat for enough money. Compare the "new" costs and annual operating costs to appreciate the huge price of an ORMA 60 vs. Raw Nerve.

Raw Nerve initial build was $1.25 mill. It was hoped to sail without spins but we did specify a masthead spin before launch (at my insistence). Lots spent on rebuild and new masts etc. Martyn could have bought a ORMA 60 for less and gone faster but that was not what he wanted to do. He did not want to follow anyone elses footsteps. He wanted something totally new. Rogntiguu was sistership under construction as Raw Nerve was launched. Stu did design all those boats mentioned when he worked for Brett. He left Crowthers because he wanted to design under his own name and didn't want to continue designing big power cats, ferries etc. (boring).

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What Happened to the pod cat John West?

John west was sailed in round Aust by Gavin and Catherine. Later they bought it, changed its name to Windswept and had Ian Johnstone Modify the pod for more space. Gavin and Catherine cruised it for a while then sold to Robert Schwamberg. Rob lost the rig at Laguna Quays and got Crusey to do some mods + supply and fit 60' Carbon precurved wingmast. Rob raced Windswept for a while then sold to Don Macintosh who campaigned for a few years and then sold to a buyer from USA I think. Don in recent years bought Raw Nerve sans rig, did a big rebuild and renamed it Windswept 2 stil has no rig yet.

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Deflawles or part of anyway

 

 

 

 

Yes one of the larger pieces that didn't end up on the bottom.

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Nice pic of a young Gavin and Catherine, testing the strength of the remaining front beam, for use on the next cat.... ;)

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Nice pic of a young Gavin and Catherine, testing the strength of the remaining front beam, for use on the next cat.... ;)

Incidentally they did have a lot of front beam problems on John West in the Round Aust and on Top Gun on the delivery home to Cairns.

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Whatever happened to BlackBird the John Goss 43' ?

 

From memory it was too lightweight, had some issues even though it was fast and later scrapped?

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My vague memory of it was being moored in Pittwater for a while then being told it had been sailed to WA via the southern route. That was a few years ago now, maybe 7 or 8?

 

Never heard if it got there...

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You could check the Coastal Cliasic results to see if 888 stacks up to the Grainger or maybe someone across the ditch will know.

 

 

http://www.racetrack.org.nz/boat_wins.php?boatid=376299&rnk=2&rmin=0&pg=1&ps=50&s=5

Can't see how to work that site or how it can show scratch results. Handicap results tell us nothing about the relative performance of boats/designs.

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Whatever happened to BlackBird the John Goss 43' ?

 

From memory it was too lightweight, had some issues even though it was fast and later scrapped?

Quite fast. Raced B2G in 98. XL2 beat Blackbird to Gladstone by several hours. Results don't show as both were dsq for finishing incorrectly.

Not scrapped, sold to someone in NSW who kept on mooring in Pittwater for a few years and then sold again to WA.

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Thanks for that. From memory she was on the cover of multihull world all powered up. Looked like a cool boat. Had red windows and a cool rig for late 90s if memory is correct.

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My vague memory of it was being moored in Pittwater for a while then being told it had been sailed to WA via the southern route. That was a few years ago now, maybe 7 or 8?

 

Never heard if it got there...

 

BB's secret was a quick release self contained safety pod, which housed shag pile carpet interior and large disco dice hanging from the roof

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I remember crossing the finish line of the surf to city inside course, 99' I think, at the same time as Blackbird crossed after doing the outside course. All we could see coming at us was a ball of spray with a mast on top. It was like a batman movie, very impressive.

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Wow.....I remember BB not living up to it's expectations. Don't remember it beating much (except fastbacks) size for size and for all the hype and money spent, although interesting looking, it was disappointing from memory. Credit to the owner builder who was heavily involved in the multi scene back then.

 

PS....As said above, nice to have you here Paul Nudd...You were the one we all chased for years.

Are you boating, teaching or both....? What's the go...?

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Hi PIL007, Im the fellow with Mai Tai, and been enjoying her for a couple of years now. Done a couple of Darwin Dili races now, and plan on doing the Darwin Ambon, and Darwin Dili in 2104. Mai Tai is stilling in Dili Harbour at the moment and I will bring her back to Darwin in October ready for the wet season races. I am a hopeless helmsman, so not getting the best out of her, but love the catamaran sailing non the less :-)

 

We did pretty well in the last Dili Rally, and sailed into a 4 hour hole on the last morning....... (everyone has an excuse!)

 

http://www.sailtimorleste.org/index.php/rally/position-reports

 

This Facebook page should give some idea of where weve been.

 

https://www.facebook.com/MaiTaiShockwave

 

Had to replace the old canberra lightpoles, and done alot of learning on her!.

 

Cheers

 

Brett Oates

0419388038

 

 

 

Phil's right, Big Bandicoot is still on the hard in Darwin, getting a superficial makeover with new windows etc. New mast as well - MUCH larger section, thankfully.

Mai Tai - Shockwave 37? If so, she's here as well. Brought to Darwin as an open decker, had a God Pod built on and won the 2010 Darwin- Ambon race, only to break up on the way home. Crew were rescued by a freighter and the boat later washed up on another island. Indo police towed it to Ambon and the owner went back, slapped some glass over a few of the fractures, lashed the hulls to the beams with the spinnaker sheets and sailed her 600 miles to windward to get home! She was sold and the new owner removed the God Pod, must have replaced or repaired the broken beams and launched her. I haven't seen her for a few months so I don't know if she's still here or sailed away.

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Hi PIL007, Im the fellow with Mai Tai, and been enjoying her for a couple of years now. Done a couple of Darwin Dili races now, and plan on doing the Darwin Ambon, and Darwin Dili in 2104. Mai Tai is stilling in Dili Harbour at the moment and I will bring her back to Darwin in October ready for the wet season races. I am a hopeless helmsman, so not getting the best out of her, but love the catamaran sailing non the less :-)

 

We did pretty well in the last Dili Rally, and sailed into a 4 hour hole on the last morning....... (everyone has an excuse!)

 

http://www.sailtimorleste.org/index.php/rally/position-reports

 

This Facebook page should give some idea of where weve been.

 

https://www.facebook.com/MaiTaiShockwave

 

Had to replace the old canberra lightpoles, and done alot of learning on her!.

 

Cheers

 

Brett Oates

0419388038

 

 

 

Phil's right, Big Bandicoot is still on the hard in Darwin, getting a superficial makeover with new windows etc. New mast as well - MUCH larger section, thankfully.

 

Mai Tai - Shockwave 37? If so, she's here as well. Brought to Darwin as an open decker, had a God Pod built on and won the 2010 Darwin- Ambon race, only to break up on the way home. Crew were rescued by a freighter and the boat later washed up on another island. Indo police towed it to Ambon and the owner went back, slapped some glass over a few of the fractures, lashed the hulls to the beams with the spinnaker sheets and sailed her 600 miles to windward to get home! She was sold and the new owner removed the God Pod, must have replaced or repaired the broken beams and launched her. I haven't seen her for a few months so I don't know if she's still here or sailed away.

Thanks for filling us in Brett and great to hear she lives on.

It sat at end of Kogarah Bay down here forever when it was owned by a guy (apparently an Olympic shooter) but NEVER left the mooring. I think Peter Gow may have had a brief stint with her as Miranda Hi Fi as well. It eventually broke off in a southerly and holed on rocks at the end of the bay. Ricky Peepman bought it and had plans but then sold to the guy who fixed it and sailed her away to maybe Darwin. It was white and like mine was painted with matte white Wattle Soler Guard to hide her bumpy finish.

Great to see the God pod shot and now almost back to original. My 37 was the original pumpkin eater.

PS...you have to love the Canberra light pole beams.

Thanks for the memories

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Hi PIL007, Im the fellow with Mai Tai, and been enjoying her for a couple of years now. Done a couple of Darwin Dili races now, and plan on doing the Darwin Ambon, and Darwin Dili in 2104. Mai Tai is stilling in Dili Harbour at the moment and I will bring her back to Darwin in October ready for the wet season races. I am a hopeless helmsman, so not getting the best out of her, but love the catamaran sailing non the less :-)

 

We did pretty well in the last Dili Rally, and sailed into a 4 hour hole on the last morning....... (everyone has an excuse!)

 

http://www.sailtimorleste.org/index.php/rally/position-reports

 

This Facebook page should give some idea of where weve been.

 

https://www.facebook.com/MaiTaiShockwave

 

Had to replace the old canberra lightpoles, and done alot of learning on her!.

 

Cheers

 

Brett Oates

0419388038

 

 

 

Phil's right, Big Bandicoot is still on the hard in Darwin, getting a superficial makeover with new windows etc. New mast as well - MUCH larger section, thankfully.

 

Mai Tai - Shockwave 37? If so, she's here as well. Brought to Darwin as an open decker, had a God Pod built on and won the 2010 Darwin- Ambon race, only to break up on the way home. Crew were rescued by a freighter and the boat later washed up on another island. Indo police towed it to Ambon and the owner went back, slapped some glass over a few of the fractures, lashed the hulls to the beams with the spinnaker sheets and sailed her 600 miles to windward to get home! She was sold and the new owner removed the God Pod, must have replaced or repaired the broken beams and launched her. I haven't seen her for a few months so I don't know if she's still here or sailed away.

Thanks for filling us in Brett and great to hear she lives on.

It sat at end of Kogarah Bay down here forever when it was owned by a guy (apparently an Olympic shooter) but NEVER left the mooring. I think Peter Gow may have had a brief stint with her as Miranda Hi Fi as well. It eventually broke off in a southerly and holed on rocks at the end of the bay. Ricky Peepman bought it and had plans but then sold to the guy who fixed it and sailed her away to maybe Darwin. It was white and like mine was painted with matte white Wattle Soler Guard to hide her bumpy finish.

Great to see the God pod shot and now almost back to original. My 37 was the original pumpkin eater.

PS...you have to love the Canberra light pole beams.

Thanks for the memories

Mai Tai was owned by Dave Moore from 1982 to ?? He raced it hard and often including SSAA races in the late 80's. Dave was a QANTAS pilot whose main work was training pilots on the flight simulator, His sailing background was in OTB cats, then a SeaWind 24 then Mai Tai. He was sponsored for a while by Peter Gow when Peter owned Miranda HiFi. Peter had sold Miranda Hi Fi by the time I sailed with David in the 1990 AMOC. He was a good sailor with a good boat but he got involved in pistol shooting and quickly rose to olympic level. His wife Cheryl was also a keen sailor and co-skipper. She also got into the shooting and there was no time for sailing when competing at that level. Great that the old girl (Mai Tai not Cheryl) is still going.

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Thanks Nuddy. I should have known you'd have the full accurate version. You bloody teachers remember everything.

 

 

PS... I noticed no one welcomed the newbie Eliseviv in true Anarchy fashion. It's just not the same around here anymore. Next thing you know Scott and Clean will go legit.........yeah right.

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Fuck off Pil and show us your man-tits.

That's better, thanks Rohey (BTW- I have nice man boobs these days...I thinking about buying the Bro)

 

That's 1000 posts.......to think how many work hours I've wasted on here......I need a life....or maybe a new boat (Does a thundercat count as owning a multi..?)

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What is the story with Riverside Oaks, Dux Nuts, etc has been for sale for years, is it being used or just rotting away? pity to see it not sailing if that is the case.

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What is the story with Riverside Oaks, Dux Nuts, etc has been for sale for years, is it being used or just rotting away? pity to see it not sailing if that is the case.

please buy it it good to go sitting at RQ, perfect Pittwater boat and would be up the pointy end of our fleet.

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What is the story with Riverside Oaks, Dux Nuts, etc has been for sale for years, is it being used or just rotting away? pity to see it not sailing if that is the case.

It has been racing almost constantly from 1988 until the last couple of years perhaps. I sailed on it once at Laguna Quays when it was called Xposure. Still an awesome boat then. It has been pretty much always for sale but that has not meant that it has not been used. It would be great to see it back on the multihull circuit.

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Well Thanks for the Mai Tai history lessons. Ive spent some time readind old threads, and there is alot of interesting waste of time stuff to read on here.... Never bumped into Nuddy before and stuck him in a virtual sense twice in a week!!

 

Wish I could sail this weekend... Only a few more weeks and Ill bring her back from Dili.

 

Cheers and have a good weekend.

 

Brett

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Fuck off Pil and show us your man-tits.

That's better, thanks Rohey (BTW- I have nice man boobs these days...I thinking about buying the Bro)

 

That's 1000 posts.......to think how many work hours I've wasted on here......I need a life....or maybe a new boat (Does a thundercat count as owning a multi..?)

 

Nuddy should be up to 1000 posts by the end of the week

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Dux Nuts has been for sale for quite a while, I think the boats scares people. It is a lot of boat for a little money.

Need a new set of sails and a small amount of work on the armas, but beside that would be a pointy end boat for very small $$$ compared to the competition it would be around.

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Dux Nuts has been for sale for quite a while, I think the boats scares people. It is a lot of boat for a little money.

Need a new set of sails and a small amount of work on the armas, but beside that would be a pointy end boat for very small $$$ compared to the competition it would be around.

pointy end boat for very small $$$

How Much?

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And there's the elephant in the room. C28R (sistership to Summit, Pear Tree, My Toy and Scud, same boat basically as Trojan) sold for abt $50k recently, and those later 2 ask over $100k .. but there is not a lot of aftermarket in tris.

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Somebody buy it - it is a real shame to have that boat not being used.

What about the similar boat built by Doug Trott: Hard Yakka/Awlgrip On/APC2 etc. etc.

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Dux Nutts

 

Structure is good

Rig is good

Spinnaker is good

Main is Good

Trailer is good

 

Needs a new Headsail

 

Bargain at the price!!

Are you sure there is nothing else needed.....? How good is the trailer..?

Rohan......want to go halves.....?

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Dux Nutts

 

Structure is good

Rig is good

Spinnaker is good

Main is Good

Trailer is good

 

Needs a new Headsail

 

Bargain at the price!!

Are you sure there is nothing else needed.....? How good is the trailer..?

Rohan......want to go halves.....?

Pil, you have been talking long enough, we are all over you, time to act. buy it now, it wont kill you at that price. leave it in Pittwater so you have some others to race. As my kids would say YOLO ( you only live once)

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I sailed on Nutz with Jacko in January, the port arma need some love on the front pin that attaches to the main hull, the head-sail is shot and would be a great drop cloth. The mast head kite sheave needs to be replaced.

From memory the kite is not in bad nick. The main is getting on but you could sail with it as is.

Get in touch with the broker and make a offer I know Jacko wants the boat to be sailed more. He is ready to move onto his next project and does not get out on the boat as much as he would like.

It would be a great boat for pittwater especially if you could dry sail it. The rig and de-rig time on the graingers are a bit long for a trailer boat.

I did not take a great deal of interest in the trailer but know it was towed to Airlie 4 years ago on the trailer it is on.

As I said earlier people are spending a truck load of money to go faster than the nutz and they are but not by much, but bang for buck it would be the best racing tri on the market today.

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Dux Nutts

 

Structure is good

Rig is good

Spinnaker is good

Main is Good

Trailer is good

 

Needs a new Headsail

 

Bargain at the price!!

Are you sure there is nothing else needed.....? How good is the trailer..?

Rohan......want to go halves.....?

Pil, you have been talking long enough, we are all over you, time to act. buy it now, it wont kill you at that price. leave it in Pittwater so you have some others to race. As my kids would say YOLO ( you only live once)

 

You are right Indian but shaming me into it here probably won't tip me over the edge.......probably.

I sent the add on yachthub to Hutcho (ex-voodoo) but Kim may put the kybosh on that.

Shame really because as said on here, it's a giant killer when sailed well by the likes of Jacko. He must have owned it a long time. I sailed on Voodoo against it back 7-8 years ago in Manly QLD and it held us and Keith (Trilogy) at bay for a very long time.

 

Rohan......you here...?

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Dux Nutts

 

Structure is good

Rig is good

Spinnaker is good

Main is Good

Trailer is good

 

Needs a new Headsail

 

Bargain at the price!!

Are you sure there is nothing else needed.....? How good is the trailer..?

Rohan......want to go halves.....?

Pil, you have been talking long enough, we are all over you, time to act. buy it now, it wont kill you at that price. leave it in Pittwater so you have some others to race. As my kids would say YOLO ( you only live once)

 

You are right Indian but shaming me into it here probably won't tip me over the edge.......probably.

I sent the add on yachthub to Hutcho (ex-voodoo) but Kim may put the kybosh on that.

Shame really because as said on here, it's a giant killer when sailed well by the likes of Jacko. He must have owned it a long time. I sailed on Voodoo against it back 7-8 years ago in Manly QLD and it held us and Keith (Trilogy) at bay for a very long time.

 

Rohan......you here...?

What put Kim off was doing ocean races in BIG weather in a little boat. Their last ocean race in Voodoo Spirit was the Yepoon to Mackay and the weather turned very nasty. It would have been fine in Voodoo or XL2 (yes they were both very experienced in XL2). So Voodoo Spirit would be wasted on just inshore sailing and had to go. They were seriously considering the Multi 23 at that time. So I reckon the ex top level sailboard sailor Kim would be very well suited to the little tri and at that price, with Hutcho having more than adequate skills (he built Voodoo and Voodoo Spirit) to bring the boat into tip top condition, I reckon they've got to be a chance. And it would be great to have Bob and Kim out there again on the race course. We had some great times when they had Voodoo and I had XL2. What's Fast Eddie doing these days? Maybe he could buy it.

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Happy to answer any questions anyone may have...

Trailer is really good... Could be improved but still really tidy

 

I sailed on Nutz with Jacko in January, the port arma need some love on the front pin that attaches to the main hull, the head-sail is shot and would be a great drop cloth. The mast head kite sheave needs to be replaced.

From memory the kite is not in bad nick. The main is getting on but you could sail with it as is.

Get in touch with the broker and make a offer I know Jacko wants the boat to be sailed more. He is ready to move onto his next project and does not get out on the boat as much as he would like.

It would be a great boat for pittwater especially if you could dry sail it. The rig and de-rig time on the graingers are a bit long for a trailer boat.

I did not take a great deal of interest in the trailer but know it was towed to Airlie 4 years ago on the trailer it is on.

As I said earlier people are spending a truck load of money to go faster than the nutz and they are but not by much, but bang for buck it would be the best racing tri on the market today.

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Dux Nutts

 

Structure is good

Rig is good

Spinnaker is good

Main is Good

Trailer is good

 

Needs a new Headsail

 

Bargain at the price!!

Are you sure there is nothing else needed.....? How good is the trailer..?

Rohan......want to go halves.....?

Pil, you have been talking long enough, we are all over you, time to act. buy it now, it wont kill you at that price. leave it in Pittwater so you have some others to race. As my kids would say YOLO ( you only live once)

 

You are right Indian but shaming me into it here probably won't tip me over the edge.......probably.

I sent the add on yachthub to Hutcho (ex-voodoo) but Kim may put the kybosh on that.

Shame really because as said on here, it's a giant killer when sailed well by the likes of Jacko. He must have owned it a long time. I sailed on Voodoo against it back 7-8 years ago in Manly QLD and it held us and Keith (Trilogy) at bay for a very long time.

 

Rohan......you here...?

What put Kim off was doing ocean races in BIG weather in a little boat. Their last ocean race in Voodoo Spirit was the Yepoon to Mackay and the weather turned very nasty. It would have been fine in Voodoo or XL2 (yes they were both very experienced in XL2). So Voodoo Spirit would be wasted on just inshore sailing and had to go. They were seriously considering the Multi 23 at that time. So I reckon the ex top level sailboard sailor Kim would be very well suited to the little tri and at that price, with Hutcho having more than adequate skills (he built Voodoo and Voodoo Spirit) to bring the boat into tip top condition, I reckon they've got to be a chance. And it would be great to have Bob and Kim out there again on the race course. We had some great times when they had Voodoo and I had XL2. What's Fast Eddie doing these days? Maybe he could buy it.

 

Furr Ball (Eddie) has pretty much retired from sailing as he is a bit older than me and Hutch. Had a beer with him at Cronulla Sailing Club last summer. He is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. I'll tell them all you said Hi.

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Furr Ball (Eddie) has pretty much retired from sailing as he is a bit older than me and Hutch. Had a beer with him at Cronulla Sailing Club last summer. He is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. I'll tell them all you said Hi.

I'm a bit older than you and Hutch too. Possibly older than Eddie. So excuse not accepted. Tell him he should buy it and get Hutch to refurbish and the 3 of you can sail it. Or maybe go thirds in it. Less than $10k each - what a bargain!

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I sailed on Nutz with Jacko in January, the port arma need some love on the front pin that attaches to the main hull, the head-sail is shot and would be a great drop cloth. The mast head kite sheave needs to be replaced.

From memory the kite is not in bad nick. The main is getting on but you could sail with it as is.

Get in touch with the broker and make a offer I know Jacko wants the boat to be sailed more. He is ready to move onto his next project and does not get out on the boat as much as he would like.

It would be a great boat for pittwater especially if you could dry sail it. The rig and de-rig time on the graingers are a bit long for a trailer boat.

I did not take a great deal of interest in the trailer but know it was towed to Airlie 4 years ago on the trailer it is on.

As I said earlier people are spending a truck load of money to go faster than the nutz and they are but not by much, but bang for buck it would be the best racing tri on the market today.

FFS the things the same price as crappy ply Hartleys. If I was in Oz i'd pick it up for sure.

 

====

If competitive racing is your ambition than this is the Trimaran for you.

 

This Granger is one of the fastest proven trailable multihulls in Australia. One of this countries most loved and successful racing Trimarans also competing and winning against non trailable Tri’s. Formerly know as: Riverside Oaks, ATL Composites & Moving Finger.

 

Constructed from ATL composites and weighing in at only 890Kg, this remarkable Trimaran has had an un-paralleled run of race winnings. Some of her more recent racing successes include: Winning 3 state championship titles with the most recent being in 2011; Airlie Beach race week, series line and handicap winners; Top 3 OMR (Offshore Multihull Races); 1 minute off course record for RQYS Wags, 2012. She is also fully Category 5N safety compliant.

 

Currently residing at Manly, on a near new dual axle trailer, Dux Nutts has been recently completely re-furbished including extra reinforcement to beam areas. The refit includes, Dynema Rigging, Ferrari Trampolines, Near new Mainsail and spinnaker, 6 other racing sails, reduced size cruising sails, full boat cover, new built-in VHF and wiring.

 

Be at the front of the fleet on rating and on the water, while having fun doing it. Absolutely nothing to spend.

 

This Trimaran is also available to lease for the Airlie Beach Multi Hull Nationals.

====

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I will add to the blurb above the WAGS record Jacko just missed out on happened in the last 12 months, the boat is still in the exact same condition as it was when this happened. Jacko nose dived twice during the race and that was the reason he missed the record. (he was a bit rusty from not sailing for a while ;) )

The boat is ready to race as is but would be better if a bit of love was thrown over the boat first.

If I had the cash and a place to sail it from I would have bought it years ago, it is a crazy fast little 8m Tri.

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I was working for ATL when Graeme Bird built Riverside Oaks. It is an amazing testament to the builders (Neil Deverill with help from Graeme) and a great example of how a little laminate, carefully applied, is enough. The hull is 10mm Durakore (6mm low density balsa with 1mm luan veneers each side) with 200 gsm uni laid athwartships inside and out, with a little local beefing up. Definitely a bargain at $30,000. Not much change out of treble this to build it. And that was back in 1987 for a boat built by the material suppliers with plenty of unpaid labour.

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I was working for ATL when Graeme Bird built Riverside Oaks. It is an amazing testament to the builders (Neil Deverill with help from Graeme) and a great example of how a little laminate, carefully applied, is enough. The hull is 10mm Durakore (6mm low density balsa with 1mm luan veneers each side) with 200 gsm uni laid athwartships inside and out, with a little local beefing up. Definitely a bargain at $30,000. Not much change out of treble this to build it. And that was back in 1987 for a boat built by the material suppliers with plenty of unpaid labour.

Perhaps the best example of how much "weight matters".

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Bullfrog, Verbatim, Pacific cranes, Baleena, Aero,...............The famous Trimaran of many names. Does anyone have a link for the video of this boat sailing into Coffs Harbour on a storm wave?

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Bullfrog, Verbatim, Pacific cranes, Baleena, Aero,...............The famous Trimaran of many names. Does anyone have a link for the video of this boat sailing into Coffs Harbour on a storm wave?

Yes please post it if someone has it! I think she is out cruising nowadays.

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