Rawhide

Older fast Aus multies

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Hi Prowler, maybe the operative word here is "RACING". What happened to XL2? Slow speed possibly not in the picture???????Insurance costs keep rising. They don't rise because the fastest of us push the envelope do they? Just joking, they rise specifically for this reason. More speed then pay more insurance, as simple as that. Hyundai Excel costs less to insure than a Subaru tricked up to rally competition standard.Bullfrog is a very stable sailing platform. Numerous people have asked me why I haven't put a square top on her. One reason is cost and another is she would need a higher standard of sailing ability , which would thin out potential buyers/renters. I hope to rent her to disabled sailors. Formula 1 type configuration doesn't fit into my calculations. As I have stated if someone wants to see her in an unstable formula 1 configuration then buy her and refit her. Im happy with an old pinhead . Skating along at twenty five knots is extremely relaxing on Bullfrog. Cheers Bottman

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Renting? That opens the door to a whole heap of liability issues. What's the potential insurer's attitude to a boat taking people "for reward"? You obviously love the boat - as have I since long before I first stepped aboard in Hobart in 1988. But an insurer will be unemotional and look at risk and liability. I note in your offer you mentioned that word "The fee would include insurance for the race" ....race. Just curious if you've sailed in the Roaring Forties?

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Geoff Cruse survey 2/05/2017.

"Vessel is considered suitable for extended voyages with appropriate equipment"

"The vessel is still n the process of a refit and ongoing cosmetic work"

. Geoff made eight recommendations ,which were attended to, with an explanation of"They will not necessarily affect the vessels performance or seaworthiness". But I fixed them anyway.

So once again I ask you Jason what is your motivation for posting a walk through video of Bullfrog and your insulting post referring to me as 'Bottom'. Are you trying to buy Bullfrog at a reduced price? If, if, that's the case then one of my friends has said you could appear to have the skills of a second rate used car salesman, is this the case?

So whats the story Jason? Please tell us

TONY BOTT not BOTTOM

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Heh Tony (Bottman), It seems you have taken some offence where I suspect none was intended. Jason gave his opinion. Disagree - that's fine, but a disagreement does not mean there was sinister intent on the other party's part. It seems to me that the word "Bottom" - an English Dictionary word - is a spell checker correction to "Bottman" - which is a profile name you created - not in an English Dictionary. I also suspect Jason is an admirer of the boat, as are many of us, hence his video on the boat. After all, it did languish in Sydney for a long time.

I wonder why anyone would infer Jason was trying to buy Bullfrog cheaply, and then add a car salesman slur based on the perceived intent. He already has a lovely ex-racing trimaran he cruises and shares - something I enjoy following. Second guessing his motives is not constructive.

As I doubt there ever was any of the malice you read into Jason's post, I doubt he'll respond to the inference above.

Insurance for trimarans is a difficult proposition. Good luck with your quest. If you manage to get it for a boat you say you plan to rent, I believe there would be a lot of people on this forum who would love to know about such an option.

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Geoff Cruse survey 2/05/2017.

"Vessel is considered suitable for extended voyages with appropriate equipment"

"The vessel is still n the process of a refit and ongoing cosmetic work"

.Geoff made eight recommendations ,which were attended to, with an explanation of"They will not necessarily affect the vessels performance or seaworthiness".

 

 

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Dear powler read the post again. At no point did I call anyone a used car salesman." If that's the case then one of my friends has said you could appear to have the skills of a second rate used car salesman"is what I said. Are you inferring someone is a second rate used car salesman?I have no intention of slurring any second rate used car salesmen, they are free to ply their trade subject to law.

I cant find reference to your statement that Bottom is a spell checker correction for Bottman. Please elaborate.

Bottman

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Locks description of Bullfrog "design #93 40ft racing/ cruising trimaran. Why did he describe design no 93 as a racing/cruising trimaran ? Who knows but that's what she is. A safe fast cruiser or a slower racer. Could be powered up to go fast but then she's not a safe family boat any more.Cheers Bottman 

 

 

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4 hours ago, powler2 said:

I wonder why anyone would infer Jason was trying to buy Bullfrog cheaply, and then add a car salesman slur based on the perceived intent.

Heh Bottman. If we're reading posts again, this what I said above. No way that says you called anyone a used car salesman. I was simply pondering the inference of your friend and their reported reference (by you) to the skills of a "second rate used car salesman".

I found another quote on goodreads.com that in my opinion (i.e. what I think) applies to how Jason's very short comment has been taken. 

“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.” 

You never did answer my question about any experience sailing in the Roaring Forties. If you have, sweet; if you haven't then you may have wanted to have a chat as I have done a few miles in the south. Up to you.

Could be an interesting trip to 43 south.

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Bottman,

What sailing is Bullfrog currently doing? Does she now have the "appropriate equipment " for the venture you are proposing? If not, who do you propose is paying for it in your idea and what exactly is the equipment?  What state are the sails and rigging (both standing and running) in?

Not much time before 26 December 2019.

Genuine questions before I look at the insurance issue.

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To "rent out" a boat, would it not need to be in survey ?

My experience from living in the Whitsundays, says illegal charters are highly frowned apon. 

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I have no dog in this fight, but here is Bottman suggesting something very cool (shadow an iconic race in a cool trimaran). Perhaps the word “rent” triggered negative reactions, which is unfortunate. I’d call it “looking for partners for a joint project to shadow sail a race, with all parties expected to contribute”

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Bottman,

I think you misunderstand the word survey for the purposes of renting/chartering Bullfrog.  Sure you had a survey done but that does not mean it is IN survey for the charter.  Eg specific lifeline requirements (there is a long list).

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On 10/19/2019 at 9:32 PM, Bottman said:

I hope to rent her to disabled sailors.

I have no beef whatever Bottman wants to do with his boat. But he made this comment when explaining why he was keeping the old pinhead sails. Not specifically about sharing expenses for a cruise to Hobart.  In the context of a question about the availability of insurance, renting was mentioned as a factor. Crew throwing in towards costs is a completely different concept, and most appropriate. If he was able to get insurance for an old trimaran to be rented to disabled sailors, a lot of trimaran owners would be interested.

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Good point about it being a cruise to Hobart.  Why does she need insurance for the "race".

Surely Bottman has insurance now that would apply.

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Thanks for the advice. There are many types of insurance which could apply. Cruise to Hobart would be the best description ,no heroics. Not participating in a race but simply going on a cruise would be a more accurate description of the intended journey. Allnew rigging from Allyacht spars in 2015. Mastwas sandblasted, repainted, allnew bolts, aprox 140 monel rivets,refurbished the titanium blocks, new spectra rope inside the boom. Whether to continue beyond Eden would be a crew choice. Don't want to be in a 1998 situation. Some absolute moron had put the furling forestay top bearing on upside down and that caused a few problems. I would not say I was responsible for that but guess whose fault it was?Cheers Tony Bott

 

 

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I feel like there's been a few misunderstandings of terminology in this discussion. Renting a boat out, or renting out spaces on it, requires it to be registered as a commercial vessel if I'm not mistaken, which is commonly referred to as it being "in survey". This is different, and more stringent, than having passed a regular, private pre-sale or pre-insurance survey. First of all the boat has to have been "built to survey" as it's normally called, so there are requirements on materials, thicknesses and strengths etc. Second of all there are requirements on the safety equipment on board.

That being said, if the boat isn't rented out but you're simply taking paying crew instead, it's up to the paying crew to determine if the condition and equipment of the boat satisfies their demands or requirements for sailing in the Roaring Forties and below.

I don't think you're allowed to actually make money off such an effort, legally speaking. If you do it becomes a commercial venture and the entire legal relationship changes, and the boat needs to be surveyed and insured for commercial operations. I think the most you can ask is that each crew member pay "their share" of the cost of the trip.

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So Tony, do you currently have insurance? If so, does it cover the proposed "cruise" or does it need to be extended somehow? My recent but old catamaran insurance allowed me to be 200 nm offshore which would easily cover a cruise to Hobart from Sydney (and the delivery to Sydney from Brisvegas).

I am not clear as to whether you are coming on the cruise or just the return.

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So Jason how did the survey go after you refitted in 2014/15? Bottman

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Tony, you are targeting the wrong person. Jason would mean you no wrong and would be very supportive of anyone with a trimaran of your heritage. Get her sailing and visible, the world needs the boat back in the limelight. Best wishes for the future.

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yes sorry   Crowther legend . XL2 capsized of sydney three weeks ago ..??  found near Bermaguie and Gabo Island .  Towed in   Righted and rig broken but mostly there

70820154_10156245268207553_5766880986662961152_n.jpg

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Av477992451_ScreenShot2019-10-25at9_19_15am.thumb.png.a30015a0700effd551ac658dccd5de64.pngAva Gitana . Crowther 40 Trimaran . sister to Balena /Bullfrog/Verbatim an hour a go or so

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1
BEAU GESTE
2047
Kark Kwok
15:00:37
05:00:37
2
APACHE
7585
Erle Williams
17:17:20
07:17:20
3
CATION
9552
Owen Rutter
17:42:49
07:42:49
4
KOTUKU
9600
Peter Geary
17:49:54
07:49:54
5
ROMANZA
101010
Dougall Love
17:59:17
07:59:17
6
AVE GITANA
7669
Antonio Pasquale
18:44:20
08:44:20

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Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

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Place Sail No Boat Name Skipper Design Fin Tim Elapsd AHC Cor'd T From
1 9552 CATION Owen Rutter Roger Hill 18.5m 17:42:49 07:42:49 1.152 08:53:10 RAYC
2 7637 LUCIFER Ed Ayre Open 8.5 18:59:58 08:59:58 0.998 08:58:53 NZMYC
3 7593 ATTITUDE Andrew Johnson Open 8.5 - Jt 19:06:04 09:06:04 1.037 09:26:16 NZMYC
4 9600 KOTUKU Peter Geary Roger Hill 17:49:54 07:49:54 1.208 09:27:38 NZMYC
5 7235 FREEDOM Phil And Coen Clark Ursem Open 8.5 - Gbe 19:52:56 09:52:56 0.977 09:39:18 NZMYC
6 2047 BEAU GESTE Kark Kwok Vplp Mod 70 15:00:37 05:00:37 1.950 09:46:12 WBC/HKYC
7 101010 ROMANZA Dougall Love Rapido 60 17:59:17 07:59:17 1.232 09:50:29 RNZYS
8 7585 APACHE Erle Williams Murray Ross 17:17:20 07:17:20 1.367 09:57:50 RBC
9 7590 EPSOM SALTS Carey Shelley Open 8.5 - Jt 20:23:00 10:23:00 1.030 10:41:41 NZMYC
10 7473 AWEFULL Don Cameron Farrier 23:26:17 13:26:17 0.829 11:08:24 NZMYC
11 7669 AVE GITANA Antonio Pasquale Crowther 40 18:44:20 08:44:20 1.275 11:08:32 RBC
12 7558 EXODUS Ed Crook Ron Given 10m Sports 20:33:33 10:33:33 1.141 12:02:53 WBC
13 9712 CARTE BLANCHE 11 Winton Jones Nautitech 40 Open C 01:02:46:54 16:46:54 0.722 12:06:59 RNZYS
DNF 7536 WHITE KNIGHT Damian Blake Modified Great Barri     0.849   NZMYC
DNF 9738 ELINA David Tiller Schioning 11mt     0.697   SSANZ

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Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

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Bottman,

Please read the many posts about survey in this thread.

If you want to charter/rent/whatever it is you want to do then Bullfrog needs to be IN SURVEY. That does not mean that you have had her surveyed (any fool can do that) rather it means you have to comply with an whole lot of regulations including as to how the boat was built and whether that complies with the requirements to be IN SURVEY. It is all very well that a surveyor says your boat is in good nick but that is not the test.  Exactly what lifelines are on the boat. How are the stanchions fixed etc etc are some of the many many regulations you must meet.

Instead of being so defensive and misquoting anyone that doesn't seem to you to be not absolutely blindly lapping up all you say try reading the posts carefully and you will see that most people think what you are trying to do with the boat (not the rental) are supportive.

You clearly have no idea who is who so give up your childish detective work and focus. Stop trying to defend by attacking, you are truly hopeless at it. 

Just waiting for your attack on me. Water off a duck's back.

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On 10/26/2019 at 11:25 AM, Bottman said:

Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

Bottman you have lost the Plottman

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On 10/26/2019 at 9:25 PM, Bottman said:

Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

I have no dog in this fight.... Now I'm getting implicated in this evil plot to buy your boat ....?  YOU HAVE THE WRONG GUY... I'm fairly certain I'm the only PIL here but I have a boat and a ship load of my own issues with my boat (XL2)...

BTW... for the record, I think you got the Jason thing completely wrong as well.... 

I wish you well with your boat ......

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On 10/26/2019 at 11:25 AM, Bottman said:

Hi All. Interesting to note Jason doesn't think Bullfrog would pass survey, well she did 25/04/2017 by geoff Cruze. Because of Jasons assertion I would lke to see who Jason used to redesign Spirit to her present configuration and who signed off on  her refit in 2014-15. And who signed off on the redesign of Spirit. Appeard from the blog of the 2014-15 that everything aft of the mast had been removed and rebuilt, inside the hull. Under whose design was this done? / Who designed the bulkheads  which were installed in the refit ?Bullfrogs original plans, of which I have two, by Lock, clearly show a engine Yanmar 30 . Unless Yanmar were making a petrol donk one would be left to believe it is a diesel. I installed a 40 hp Yanmar diesel(A 30n hp yanmar turboed up to 40 hp for weight reasons)Speed at WOT in calm water 14 knots.The weight of fuel needed for safety ,as a diesel cruiser  , is about a third of what is needed for a petrol motor . 40hp four stroke petrol uses about 14 litres per hour as opposed to 5 litres per hour hour with diesel turbo swinging an inch larger prop ,from my current research. Probably why I did this? Now who designed the changes to Bullfrog? Schonning . And he apparently supervised the modification from what I was told ?  In Jasons blog of Spitit there appears to be a photo of PIL. Is that Pil Jason ? Is he a friend of yours? the reason I ask is that he has turned up at Montys on three occasions trying to buy Bullfrog,Is that so? He told me he was the only one who could bring Bullfrog up to her fullest potential,is that so PIL? Who did the redesign work on Spit.Were you involved in the redesign of Spit? Spit appears to be a sleek boat but who redesigned her. and what safety parameters were involved? Anyone can chop the shit out of a properly designed boat but who can do it safely? how safe is spit Jason?Bottman

Are you feeling a little bitter and twisted cupcake??  :lol:

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20 minutes ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Just checked that footage ..... They don't appear to use much mast rotation ... thoughts...?

We often limit mast rotation when a bit over powered on the Gnome. Could be the same theory here. 

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Cupcake here MAD. who is going to buy your boats if you set up your industry as a closed shop where you attempt to cut down anyone who attempts to enter the fold. . Jason said 'Hey bottom before making a suggestion like this I,d see if you can get insurance first.I think that you wont without a current survey and personally I don't think Bullfrog in her current state will pass survey."Point here is she passed a Geoff Cruze survey in 2017. Jason asked me ,as an admirerer of Bullfrog from his younger years if he could take a video of her in her present stete? No mention of using a video to run her down,was there Jason Gard? What was your agenda Jason? I take Jasons reference to me as :BOTTOM as a complete discrimination on my racial background and his attempt to discriminate against me because of my head injury and resultant mental incapacity,is that so Jason Gard?Are you into discrimination of mentally impared people Jason Gard?Bottman

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It seems like Trispirit hasnt visit this site after he posted that on 19 Oct....   Maybe it was said in a light joking tone - but I can see why Bottman got offended of that post given the circumstances.

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Bottman I think your original offer was a kind one, similar to what Multihuller offers with his wonderful Golden Oldies R2AK offers. I also think you are seeing malice where none was intended. It’s already been pointed out to you that charter/renting involves a special type of inspection and insurance. This is a separate and more bureaucratic inspection than your marine survey. In the US it’s called a COI and the boat almost needs to be purpose built to pass. Crashboxes/stability test/fire suppression,really tall lifelines. I’m involved in getting an old monohull through it and it’s quite a task, then you also have to find a company willing to insure it. Now to be fair a COI is for taking groups larger than 6 for pay so it’s not apples to apples but you get the point.I’m not up on the process in Australia but I imagine there are several charter boat captains who could get you up to speed within earshot of your mooring. Spirit is only used part of the year and I imagine they have looked into what it would take to try and get some revenue out of her when they are doing other work. Lighten up a bit mate.

And again thanks for the kind offer, I’d love to rent Bullfrog someday, and if shit happens as it can/does on a boat even with a skilled crew I’d hope you’d be covered.

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10 hours ago, SeaGul said:

It seems like Trispirit hasnt visit this site after he posted that on 19 Oct....   Maybe it was said in a light joking tone - but I can see why Bottman got offended of that post given the circumstances.

Really....You can't know what's on Bottmans mind.............Jason will know this is going on and like the rest of us, he just won't unleash his actual thoughts out of respect for humans in general and not wanting to start a shit fight ... which has now already started because Bottman has taken offence to an Anarchy post that meant no offence..... 

I say we all ignore it and put this thread back on the rails.

RIP Bullfrog.... you were loved by all.....

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14 hours ago, Bottman said:

Cupcake here MAD. who is going to buy your boats if you set up your industry as a closed shop where you attempt to cut down anyone who attempts to enter the fold. . Jason said 'Hey bottom before making a suggestion like this I,d see if you can get insurance first.I think that you wont without a current survey and personally I don't think Bullfrog in her current state will pass survey."Point here is she passed a Geoff Cruze survey in 2017. Jason asked me ,as an admirerer of Bullfrog from his younger years if he could take a video of her in her present stete? No mention of using a video to run her down,was there Jason Gard? What was your agenda Jason? I take Jasons reference to me as :BOTTOM as a complete discrimination on my racial background and his attempt to discriminate against me because of my head injury and resultant mental incapacity,is that so Jason Gard?Are you into discrimination of mentally impared people Jason Gard?Bottman

The Video is self explanatory. 

Has the boat been offshore since you started work on it? 

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What the heck is with all the angry Australians?  Threads everywhere with them shitting each others beds.  Was the winter that bad or something??

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33 minutes ago, Wess said:

What the heck is with all the angry Australians?  Threads everywhere with them shitting each others beds.  Was the winter that bad or something??

I only see one angry bloke, everyone else has been pretty restrained. Especially by Anarchy standards

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Go check out the Australian sailing thread in SA.  Few others there as well.  And the Beachball or whatever it it was called thread here.  Another two or three in Ocean Racing Anarchy. I got no dog in any of those fights just wondering what got em all so riled up down there.  Its sailing.  Supposed to be fun, no!?!

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Older Fast NZ Multi in Coastal Classic built in the 90s to a Murray Ross design then was on the hard for 6 plus years  being Rebuilt/Modified.....55' Apache

73289911_10211570896506295_2669839327181144064_o.jpg

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Go check out the Australian sailing thread in SA.  Few others there as well.  And the Beachball or whatever it it was called thread here.  Another two or three in Ocean Racing Anarchy. I got no dog in any of those fights just wondering what got em all so riled up down there.  Its sailing.  Supposed to be fun, no!?!

...a teory here - what is the national sport in AUS?  - sailing!  - so thats why they take it so very serious...and bec they have lost the world-lead to NZ they are abit itchy on it...       

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4 hours ago, SeaGul said:

...a teory here - what is the national sport in AUS?  - sailing!  - so thats why they take it so very serious...and bec they have lost the world-lead to NZ they are abit itchy on it...       

That’s funny. Sailing is a minor sport in Australia. 
The last few A/C’s have been won by Australians running the show on the water and Australia just won the SailGP. 
And NZ just got beaten in the RWC semifinals. Life’s good. 

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Wow, Ave Gitana looks absolutely killer! Glad to see her being so well cared for.

That 55' Murray Ross design looks awesome as well, especially with the matching hulls and sails. Couldn't find any info on it, anyone know a good phrase to google?

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9 hours ago, Keith said:

L. Crowther .  unless its been modded

Yep, Crowther, only slightly modified. Basically a sistership to Balina/Bullfrog (etc etc). Raced hard, far and wide. Loved. Maintained.

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No older Aus multis there (didn't see Ave)... is BJ older now?!

... but OH FUCK YEAH!

Loved the save by the little GBE(?) @~  3.50

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Amazing video, what a fleet!  If we could only get 1/4 of those beauties out for a race in socal...

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13 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

No older Aus multis there (didn't see Ave)... is BJ older now?!

... but OH FUCK YEAH!

Loved the save by the little GBE(?) @~  3.50

2:40 or so, lower left, black sails? Looks like it got wet when she nosed in, but they slacked sheets and then pulled them right back in... fun to watch!

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Coen Ursem That was five minutes in from the start. Good thing we had the sheets in our hands and released everything. Nice pic, who took it?

   It was gusting 38knots

This is a Multihull 8.5 meter Class ..with a mix of mainly Cats and Tris

 

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So are you nz sailors happy with the box rule leading to such low aspect rigs? Just a question not a judgement.

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Just realised that my comment above is supposed to be about the nose dive from the Video...and replying to the type of boat.  The image above is a retrospective of the class, 

only two 8.5s started the classic....the red tri and the nosedive cat .    Sorry to not be clear .  

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8 hours ago, huey 2 said:

Coen Ursem 

This is a Multihull 8.5 meter Class ..with a mix of mainly Cats and Tris

 

 

"mainly" - was there other that tris and cats? 

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17 hours ago, randii said:

2:40 or so, lower left, black sails? Looks like it got wet when she nosed in, but they slacked sheets and then pulled them right back in... fun to watch!

Yeah, I wasn't even drunk and was looking at the wrong number! 

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"Hey Bottom before making a suggestion like this I'd first see if you can get insurance. I think you'd find that you wont without a current survey and personally I don't think Bull Frog in her current stste will pass survey". So Jason Most ofnus would believe Geoff Cruse before listening to you, after all he is a registered Boat vSurveyor and what are you? Troublemaker in the old language, or a troll in modern language? I have updated  my restoration and minor modifications and improvements to Bullfrog for the information and help for all who like to improve the safety and comfort of their boats. WHATS YOUR AGENDA? "PERSONALLY I WOULDNT USE THIS GUY TO MOVE ANY OF MY BOATS "AS ONE FRIEND SAID RECENTLY. Do you actuslly have a boat licence Jason? What do you think your opinion is worth next to Geoff Cruse? Bottman

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A shakedown cruise to Lord Howe would prove the effectiveness & quality of your restoration Bottman. Would also prove its seaworthiness for resale. Geoff Cruse certified it was good to go what’s stopping you leaving this week? 

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Go sailing Bottman. Actions speak louder than words. The miles Jason has done on Spirit speak for themselves. 

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8 hours ago, Bottman said:

"Hey Bottom before making a suggestion like this I'd first see if you can get insurance. I think you'd find that you wont without a current survey and personally I don't think Bull Frog in her current stste will pass survey". So Jason Most ofnus would believe Geoff Cruse before listening to you, after all he is a registered Boat vSurveyor and what are you? Troublemaker in the old language, or a troll in modern language? I have updated  my restoration and minor modifications and improvements to Bullfrog for the information and help for all who like to improve the safety and comfort of their boats. WHATS YOUR AGENDA? "PERSONALLY I WOULDNT USE THIS GUY TO MOVE ANY OF MY BOATS "AS ONE FRIEND SAID RECENTLY. Do you actuslly have a boat licence Jason? What do you think your opinion is worth next to Geoff Cruse? Bottman

I am a professional ship wright and surveyor,  I also had professional relationship with Jason on his refit . At the time I designed and built some carbonfibre parts for him .I always found Jason to be of the upmost integrity and a very good understanding of the job ,boat and its structural application .

I have not seen Jason get into this abuse as that is not his style .But Bottman just keep pulling down someone that is just trying to inform him of his own experiences  .I can vouch for my experience on Jasons integrity but from what is written I can't say much for this block .

Just my 2 cents integrity bets attacking words .

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Bottman, get a grip. Read what people have said and understand that you are a million miles away from your restoration being complete and IN SURVEY.  Have a look at the photos above in this thread of your NZ sistership.  Are you at that level of completion of your project? If not then get on with it and then GO SAILING.

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Its four years post assault, not able to work as a registered nurse, have my car licence back, still trying to come to terms with my hands and feet not doing what they are told, recently able to do long division etc, etc. So when some person comes along with the suggestion that my boat is not worthy of anything, let alone sailing long ocean voyages, and then stating this, internationally, despite a survey report, by one of Australias most capable multihull marine surveyors then I get a little concerned about that someone making derogatory remarks about my boat.  I did try sailing and ended up on Bribie Island after a few equipment failures. Recently discovered the cause of the anchor not deploying. The anchor chain goes through the deck through a 75mm conduit. this had worn through at the exit point and effected a chain stopper. Had pulled the anchor winch apart twice, over a few months, before discovering the reason it malfunctioned. The strange and distant memory of Bullfrog being mine kept me from giving up. A strange, frightening, place to wake up in hospital locked in because of absconding and being retrieved by police and ambos. I was dressed in hospital attire and fortunately/unfortunately caught a cab from the hospital back to Montys Boatyard and convinced the Iranian driver I was simply doing whatever. He notifiedthe Police, thanks Iranian driver. Once again I ask Jason what his agenda is?. Or was he just being a troll?He expressed interest in Bullfrog especially in the space inside of her with the wing berths. I couldn't recognise friends and family when in hospital. Have some of my memory back and can now do some of my previous .skills, to some extent. So whats your aganda Jerkson? Bottman

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1 hour ago, Bottman said:

Its four years post assault, not able to work as a registered nurse, have my car licence back, still trying to come to terms with my hands and feet not doing what they are told, recently able to do long division etc, etc. So when some person comes along with the suggestion that my boat is not worthy of anything, let alone sailing long ocean voyages, and then stating this, internationally, despite a survey report, by one of Australias most capable multihull marine surveyors then I get a little concerned about that someone making derogatory remarks about my boat.  I did try sailing and ended up on Bribie Island after a few equipment failures. Recently discovered the cause of the anchor not deploying. The anchor chain goes through the deck through a 75mm conduit. this had worn through at the exit point and effected a chain stopper. Had pulled the anchor winch apart twice, over a few months, before discovering the reason it malfunctioned. The strange and distant memory of Bullfrog being mine kept me from giving up. A strange, frightening, place to wake up in hospital locked in because of absconding and being retrieved by police and ambos. I was dressed in hospital attire and fortunately/unfortunately caught a cab from the hospital back to Montys Boatyard and convinced the Iranian driver I was simply doing whatever. He notifiedthe Police, thanks Iranian driver. Once again I ask Jason what his agenda is?. Or was he just being a troll?He expressed interest in Bullfrog especially in the space inside of her with the wing berths. I couldn't recognise friends and family when in hospital. Have some of my memory back and can now do some of my previous .skills, to some extent. So whats your aganda Jerkson? Bottman

I want to feel sorry for you, but you’re acting like an asshole. You really should get away from the keyboard for awhile and just go enjoy your boat. 

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Hey Monkey I say the same to Jason, he started it, with a finishing touch with an insult to my name,hows that?Bottman

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So, when Ian FINISHED BULLFROG and she then was one of the fastest sailing vessels in the world someone asked why she was not painted, according to Ian when I spoke to him?  'Paint weighs' was his reply. So in respect of authenticity then she is partly restored with a poor paint job , isn't she?Bottman

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On 10/26/2019 at 10:55 PM, huey 2 said:

 

2 minutes ago, Bottman said:

So, when Ian FINISHED BULLFROG and she then was one of the fastest sailing vessels in the world someone asked why she was not painted, according to Ian when I spoke to him?  'Paint weighs' was his reply. So in respect of authenticity then she is partly restored with a poor paint job , isn't she?Bottman

Compare the two sisterships.  Get Bullfrog up to this standard and go sailing.

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2 hours ago, Monkey said:

I want to feel sorry for you, but you’re acting like an asshole. You really should get away from the keyboard for awhile and just go enjoy your boat. 

This. If he ain’t drunk or buzzed he needs to be. If he is he needs to stop. What a freaking train wreck and everybody sees it but him. Wow. Just wow. 

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I just checked in here and read the posts on Bullfrog. In January 2014 and just a couple of weeks before Bottman purchased Bullfrog i had agreed to buy it for 80k and deposited 20k on it based on the purchase going ahead subject to a "reasonable" survey. I had started my offer for it at 60k but had to go up to 80k which was more than it was worth but, hey what's 20k when it comes to old multis. I had the broker put her on the beach at Bayview in Pittwater and flew Geoff Cruse down to do a survey at the same time he was doing one on a mates Crowther 52 Cat, Two Up Together. Geoff did a full survey including a moisture test across the boat and his findings were the boat was in trouble. He marked all the areas of concern with a grey lead pencil, (which i've seen Bottman refer to in old posts) and looked at me and said Darren, you'll need to spend at least 150-200k just on stripping the boat and fixing/rebuilding the damp balsa before you even fair and finish it and then have to replace the motor, sails, fittings etc etc. The boat would have needed to be stripped and put into a shed. I live in Sydney, so that was the first problem, where to do it? As much as i love the boat as I feel I've been associated with it over its full career, i had to let it go on Geoffs professional advise. it was beyond my capabilities. Geoff's survey findings were because of new work and fittings put on the boat that leaked into the balsa. So with this now behind me, I then went to France and looked at a few options there. That was going to be all too hard and I couldn't find the right boat there at the time. Then Top Gun came onto the market, I also tried to buy her 4 years earlier, however Gavin beat me to it. I quickly sold Indian Chief and bought Top Gun and have loved every day of bringing this old racer back to being a beautiful racer/cruiser in the best condition its ever been in. After reading all this and realising Bottmans struggles, I hope Bottman passes this treasured tri onto someone that can do the full restore and bring it back to its former glory before its all too late. I'm not entering into any further debate on this topic, however i felt compelled to share my story on this amazing tri.

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All the areas marked on the decks , in Sydney, for the survey were the first areas fixed. I understood it was going to cost me a fortune. Not so. I found Rileys Surfboards on line and got about five  square metres of rough cut balsa for a couple of hundred bucks.I bought some more later for repairs but have not had to use it The rot could be scraped out with a putty knife, a very simple quick process, then grinder to the glue lines.Inside Kevlar lining was easily supported whilst the new balsa was epoxied on. When set it was simplyground back to shape. 25mm balsa is easily reshaped to match the existing decks. Most of the rot was from where someone had drilled and screwed a fitting on without a big enough core. I use a 25mmcore and after five years there appears to be no rot around the repaired deck/fittings.Grading of the balsa is a simple process, simply cut same lengths of balsa and weigh it. I started out taking a scale to Bunnings and working out the density. Ian Johnson used denser balsa for the stress points and less dense for the infills. Bottman

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On 11/1/2019 at 4:18 PM, plywoodboy said:

So are you nz sailors happy with the box rule leading to such low aspect rigs? Just a question not a judgement.

Yep We seem pretty happy with it, there are no moves to change it within the 8.5m class. 

Having  done the Coastal (and won the 8.5m class) now in Lucifer (Tri), Attitude (Cat) and Freedom (The nose diving cat in the video), the Class seems to have got the mix right to make fun, affordable, robust little boats that can still kick arse! Lucifer was 8th ton line this year out of 176 boats! Only beaten by a bunch of 50-70ft Multis, Ave Gatana (40ft Tri) and an OMCA 60 monohull!

 

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6 hours ago, Indian Chief said:

I just checked in here and read the posts on Bullfrog. In January 2014 and just a couple of weeks before Bottman purchased Bullfrog i had agreed to buy it for 80k and deposited 20k on it based on the purchase going ahead subject to a "reasonable" survey. I had started my offer for it at 60k but had to go up to 80k which was more than it was worth but, hey what's 20k when it comes to old multis. I had the broker put her on the beach at Bayview in Pittwater and flew Geoff Cruse down to do a survey at the same time he was......

Thanks a tonne for sharing those pics Darren, the shape of those hulls is pure art enhanced by a nice beaching! It made me remember why these sites (and previously discussions in the pub) often stir up a bit of angst in us. Old classic boats are just a passion for old sailors, and in multihulls we don't have too many still savable. That is why some here are trying to verbalise to the owner "Your stewardship of this boat is a gift from above, so do something with it!"

While not in the same classic league, my 1994 Ostac F31 Tribute (to Ian F) ex Party Time ex Wilparina 1  has been easier to save, and is now nearly in original condition but with a few hidden carbon upgrades to make things a little better and lighter. Finding her on the dry dock after a decade not in the water with a foot of foul black water in both floats, and the sealed bow crashbox totally full of at least 40 litres of the same goo nearly scared me away. Massive lee help on one tack and weather helm on the other added to the fun. Because mine is more easily repaired foam glass, I tip my hat to Bottman taking on the balsa project and look forward to seeing her flying again. Tony (Bottman), we are all with you in different ways, especially Jason who I have met and have high regard for.

Regards,

Peter H   

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13 hours ago, Bottman said:

Hey Monkey I say the same to Jason, he started it, with a finishing touch with an insult to my name,hows that?Bottman

I seriously don’t know why you think that was intentional. Look what autocorrect does when you start typing your username. I’m sure it was just an accident. 

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So Jason said "I think you'll find that you wont(get insurance) without a current survey and personally I don't think Bullfrog in her current state will pass survey" So all of you who have banged on about survey please direct your inquiries to Jason as these are his words from 19 Sept 2019. Ask him what type of survey he thinks Bullfrog needs, after all he started this stink questioning Bullfrogs seaworthy integrity,I think, so what type of survey were you talking about Jason?Bottman   Thanks Peter. I had the same high regard for Jason but he soured my opinion with his statement about Bullfrogs ability to pass survey,whatever he means by this? I took him and Claudy out to Bullfrog so they could see her as Jason ststed he admired Bullfrog from a young age and wanted to see her.Some people could see Jason as a very unreliable type after requesting a viewing then running her down for an unknown reason, once again whats your agenda Jason?Bottman?

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I don't profess to be familiar with auto correct but a quick enquiry reveals that you should type the whole word to get the corrected word.. Secondly I sign my name as Bottman, which was my nickname on Thursday Island. I cant get the computer to write what you are suggesting ,Bottm, bottom , or bottoms. That's why it could appear to some people as an intentional insult,dont you think? Whats a super anarchist moniker for? Bottman

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1 hour ago, Bottman said:

I don't profess to be familiar with auto correct but a quick enquiry reveals that you should type the whole word to get the corrected word.. Secondly I sign my name as Bottman, which was my nickname on Thursday Island. I cant get the computer to write what you are suggesting ,Bottm, bottom , or bottoms. That's why it could appear to some people as an intentional insult,dont you think? Whats a super anarchist moniker for? Bottman

No, I don’t agree at all. Like many people, I let auto fill complete words and occasionally miss the mistakes. 
 

I believe you’re acting like a paranoid schizophrenic. I do not mean that as an insult. It’s an observation based on you’re behavior. 

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So Darren had an unfavourable survey report from Geoff in 2014, in what year did you get this report from Geoff that says she's all good to go Bottman ?For a boat to jump from 80k to 200k I would hope for more than just a bit of balsa from Bunnings. 

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