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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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JimB

Twitchy Boats

195 posts in this topic

I was reading an old thread which referred to performance boats being twitchy. It nammed a few including the B25 and the Trip 26. I currently own a B25 and do not find it "Twitchy" at all. I have also owned a SJ 21, a Capri 22,a Santana 20, a Santana 23, a HotFoot 20 and have done a fair amount of heilming on a Martin 242.

 

I would have to say hands down my Santana 23 going downwind over 8 knots was Twitchy but fun. I broached that boat many times and I am sure every way possible. Never once lost anybody overboard or broke anything even on a chineese roll and subsequent rollover the other way when she righted. My Tuna 20 provided the next best broaches.

 

Any other good broach machines out there? I hear a SJ 24 going downwind over 8 knots should be illegal. What say you?

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Lost my windex on a Capri 30....unstable machine over 14kts.

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Was gonna add SJ24 to your list, but see you've accounted for it. Family owns one and can say that anything over 7kts downwind requires dark trousers or a wetsuit.

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I was reading an old thread which referred to performance boats being twitchy. It nammed a few including the B25 and the Trip 26. I currently own a B25 and do not find it "Twitchy" at all. I have also owned a SJ 21, a Capri 22,a Santana 20, a Santana 23, a HotFoot 20 and have done a fair amount of heilming on a Martin 242.

 

I would have to say hands down my Santana 23 going downwind over 8 knots was Twitchy but fun. I broached that boat many times and I am sure every way possible. Never once lost anybody overboard or broke anything even on a chineese roll and subsequent rollover the other way when she righted. My Tuna 20 provided the next best broaches.

 

Any other good broach machines out there? I hear a SJ 24 going downwind over 8 knots should be illegal. What say you?

 

contention 33... (will it go right or left... oops too late!)

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Requisite:

 

 

Looks like at 27 seconds is where he loses steerage. :lol:

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Requisite:

 

 

Looks like at 27 seconds is where he loses steerage. :lol:

 

How could you tell?!

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Early 70's IOR 50 footer "Outrage" . Noodle for a mast. Boom about right for a Catalina 30. Lots of tumblehome.

 

Bitch would roll over in a heartbeat. Very fast in the light stuff but scary in 15 knots. Equal oportunity broacher. You never knew if it could go to leeward or windward - but it was going to go.

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San Juan 24 and Lasers are the best broach machines on the water.

 

And both were designed by the same person!

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To me there is a difference between 'twitchy' and 'ill-mannered'. Kirby 25s were very twitchy - they felt great and then the rudder would let go with no warning. The skinny stern, no rudder-balance IOR boats were ill mannered. San Juan 24, Martin 29 (and 32), and lots of other boats from the late 70s fit this mold. Limited control right from the get-go, followed by wipeouts when you leaned over that .1 degree too far.

 

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.

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Requisite:

 

 

Thanks for posting....provided a badly needed fit of laughter at the end of a long week.

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San Juan 24 and Lasers are the best broach machines on the water.

 

And both were designed by the same person!

 

 

To me there is a difference between 'twitchy' and 'ill-mannered'. Kirby 25s were very twitchy - they felt great and then the rudder would let go with no warning. The skinny stern, no rudder-balance IOR boats were ill mannered. San Juan 24, Martin 29 (and 32), and lots of other boats from the late 70s fit this mold. Limited control right from the get-go, followed by wipeouts when you leaned over that .1 degree too far.

 

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.

 

Wow that's 3 by the same designer. Did he design any that aren't twitchy downwind?

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Laser ? I think you were doing it wrong ! Less board and more hiking off the transom.

 

San Juan 24 ? Defined the era of IOR - Inadvertant Oscillations & Rotations !

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Capri 30 definitely rates in twitchy category, especially once the bow lifts off. Better have the chute choked down hard at that point...

 

Rides its bow wave like a Laser though.

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LoL!! That could not explain it better :lol:

 

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.

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Hands down J24 on the city front during the summer. Nearly sank it once sailing down wind flying the #3 jib LOL.

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Hands down J24 on the city front during the summer. Nearly sank it once sailing down wind flying the #3 jib LOL.

 

You should have tried harder, you would have been doing the sailing community a huge favor.

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Requisite:

 

The white 1 ton with the red boot stripe is Challenge '88 at the Worlds in San Fran. I was on board! I remember that wipe out vividly. We exploded the vang. The reason the boot stripe is all messed up is because we had to make the boat "narrower" so it would measure 30.5 for the Canada's Cup. Remember that crap?

 

The worst wipe-out I ever did on a big boat was in the Solent on a Frers '55 Jubilation. Laying on our side for minutes I thought we were going to sink. Watching Bob Fisher swing the big wheel back and forth, lock to lock for a good 5 minutes before we chinese gybed was insane. One of the guys got a runner block in the face and nearly bit his tongue off. Good times!

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To me there is a difference between 'twitchy' and 'ill-mannered'. Kirby 25s were very twitchy - they felt great and then the rudder would let go with no warning. The skinny stern, no rudder-balance IOR boats were ill mannered. San Juan 24, Martin 29 (and 32), and lots of other boats from the late 70s fit this mold. Limited control right from the get-go, followed by wipeouts when you leaned over that .1 degree too far.

 

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.

 

Another boat by that designer makes the broacher list.

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An Express 37 won me my first "If I had a Gun" trophy for THE Broach of the reagatta. Wasn't the first - wasn't the last. Funniest repeat was when the owner 'tea-bagged' himself on a subsequent broach.

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Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

 

1155136125-3-20081212.jpg

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An Express 37 won me my first "If I had a Gun" trophy for THE Broach of the reagatta. Wasn't the first - wasn't the last. Funniest repeat was when the owner 'tea-bagged' himself on a subsequent broach.

 

Reminds me of this photo sequence:

 

EEfRV.jpg

 

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Worse Broaching Bitch ever? No doubt, Santana 30/30 GP in anything over 10knots. Sweetest ride ever? B-25. That little surf machine only get more stable with each knot of breeze.

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My only chinese ever was on an Express 34. Wasn't all that windy or badly handled either, pretty surprising.

 

Most fun downwind boat? B-52 - Steinman 30 in Oz back in the day. A Fast 40 is pretty good too!

 

dash

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Anything designed by Scott Kaufman. But at least their spreaders were clean.

 

On the other hand Doug Petersen was the maestro of the skinny transom.

 

All bow and pray at the altar of Bruce Farr who ended all that crap.

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laser

 

Yep, like wet soap on ice... :(

 

Also just about any mid 70's Peterson IOR design - they resembled windscreen wipers when running downhill in fresh breeze.

To stop 'em rolling we would put the blooper up. And then the fuckers would roll even harder.I was just a teenage kid sailing those godawful boats in the late 70s & early 80s.... but I still remember the fear.

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Worse Broaching Bitch ever? No doubt, Santana 30/30 GP in anything over 10knots. Sweetest ride ever? B-25. That little surf machine only get more stable with each knot of breeze.

I've sail hundreds of miles in 30/30 an tens in a SJ24. The Kirby boat is way better at broaching, the 30/30 handles well downwind. But I am well accustomed to steering Kirby boats.

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The santana 20 loves to rock and roll downwind. Fun to drive and will give you some great pucker moments.

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Lost my windex on a Capri 30....unstable machine over 14kts.

 

I raced against one of these for a few years back in the mid-80s. I used to tell my crew that if the wind was under 10 knots we were toast and I had a decent light air boat. Over 10 knots we were competitive and over 14 or so we would beat the Capri every time.

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Laser?????? If that is your experience it was you, not the boat.

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Was BN on a Peterson 42 (Ex. Love Machine) in the late 80's. That was a rolling machine as well. She was tillered steered and in breeze downhill we had two people on the tiller.

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Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.

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A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.

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The santana 20 loves to rock and roll downwind. Fun to drive and will give you some great pucker moments.

 

That's the only boat I've ever been on that would go spreader to spreader like a left/right combo from Ali.

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Like this: :blink:

 

A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.

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^^^^^^^^^^^ That was awesome! Never had seen that one before!

Epic failure all the way around.

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Great pic of what I believe is a Wavelength 24. This picture was sent to me with my Santana 23s name paint brushed on the transom after one of dramatic wipeouts. This pic is unreal. Two guys out on the keel and two more standing on the mast to counter balance. I presume the guys on the mast are there to prevent the boat from righting too quickly.

 

On one of my epic Santana 23 wipeouts I chineese rolled, the boat righted very quickly and we rolled the other way with the boom comming accross again. The boat righted again and this time we were going slow enough that i regained the helm. The miracle was nothing broke, the boom had not hit anyone, everyone was still on board, the spinaker was not tangled and in a another instant the spin filled and we were off smoking down the run still in second place and gaing on the J24 ahead of us. A sailing memory i will never forget.Fun times.

post-323-009866700 1323629130_thumb.jpg

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^^^^^^^^^^^ That was awesome! Never had seen that one before!

Epic failure all the way around.

 

Holy shit, that was one of the funniest sailing videos I've ever seen. Pure gold. 2:50 - "We'll be back Jill!"

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Baltic 44 in 20 knots, when the inboard end of the pole shoots off the top of the mast track, followed by someone blowing 15 feet of guy. Side decks in the water instantly. Not the boat's fault...

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Like this: :blink:

 

A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.

 

 

Recovering from surgery, and laughed so hard I though I ripped the stitches....Thanks for posting

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Another Santana 23 ( Bite Me) story.

 

Participating in a long distance race, warm sunny day, very little breeze- 3 kts puffs to 5. About a mile to go to leeward pin.Been in a bit of a hole and had slipped to about 4th place out of a fleet of 20ish. One crew member down below having a snooze. No life jackets as it was warm and we were just sneaking along under spin trying to avoid more holes. I felt a new breeze on the back of my neck. I turned around to have a look and saw the boats behind really starting to move. Good i thought, a losers puff that will help me move back up to the leaders. Bite Me starts to move nicely then wham, big wind and we are really moving. Gets worse and Bite Me starts to do the roll from spreader to spreader thing. By this time the sleeping crew down below is yelling WTF! Knowing that things were likely to get worse real quick,(Chineese roll comming) I helped put the boat into a more civilized broach to leeward. Boat goes over,spreaders in the water. Now the wind really cranks up just pounding us keeping Bite Me pinned for what seemed like a very long time.In reality it was probably only a couple or three minutes. The crew and I were perched up on the rail nicely including the guy who was below. None of us had lifejackets on and we were in very deep cold water. I was thinking that if Bite Me went down no big deal, I did not want to die in an old folks home anyway. Then as quickly as the wind hit us it was gone. The rest of the race,(about six hours) was back to 3ish kts, dull and unexciting.

 

Much discussion as to what had hit us. Thinking it must have been one of those wind shear things. Fortunatly the lake had been calm before it hit and as it was localized to our area, there were no waves to contend with. We did not take on any water even in the cockpit. Bite Me just floated on her side no big deal, just another Santana 23 adventure.

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OOPs meant to post a pic of Bite Me and my new ride SuperBee (B25)

post-323-059915500 1323655001_thumb.jpg

post-323-007000900 1323655031_thumb.jpg

post-323-001632000 1323655162_thumb.jpg

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Peterson IOR 42 in the early eighties, taurus II

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A windward mark near shore with blow from onshore fooled us into hoisting at the rounding despite all our evidence that it was blowin' 30 + on the coure, only 12-15 at the mark. new crew (son), some testosterone as we were nipping at the lead boat and all sorts of other bad excuses!!! But hey,rinsing the windex is needed now and again, lost only one place in the snafu but we did go down hard, Laser 28.

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Like this: :blink:

 

A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.

 

 

Recovering from surgery, and laughed so hard I though I ripped the stitches....Thanks for posting

 

Feel sorry for the kid driving... dad does not do a good job of coaching them... wonder if they ever drove again....

 

 

 

 

But the winner in the broach coach I think is a close tie between the IOR rated Tartan 10s (the ones that race under PHRF nowadays have more modern kites and mains and hence are WAY more stable) and the SJ24.

 

Now it isn't that the SJ24 should be "illegal" downwind in over 8 knots...its just that it is actually faster going downhil in waves on its side than right side up :-)

 

 

As for the T10s... I remember when they first showed up in LIS. (showing my age here) we were in the start behind them - and the race started just off City Island as a downwind in about 25knots of breeze. once we got our blooper up we were ok (it was a semi-custom 1/2toner) but the T-10s ahead of us just went down the course... wobble wobble crash..pop up... wobble wobble crash... popup ...wobble wobble crash.... rinse repeat.

 

 

And the crazy thing was that they really didn't loose much ground in the crashes....

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Another Santana 23 ( Bite Me) story.

 

Participating in a long distance race, warm sunny day, very little breeze- 3 kts puffs to 5. About a mile to go to leeward pin.Been in a bit of a hole and had slipped to about 4th place out of a fleet of 20ish. One crew member down below having a snooze. No life jackets as it was warm and we were just sneaking along under spin trying to avoid more holes. I felt a new breeze on the back of my neck. I turned around to have a look and saw the boats behind really starting to move. Good i thought, a losers puff that will help me move back up to the leaders. Bite Me starts to move nicely then wham, big wind and we are really moving. Gets worse and Bite Me starts to do the roll from spreader to spreader thing. By this time the sleeping crew down below is yelling WTF! Knowing that things were likely to get worse real quick,(Chineese roll comming) I helped put the boat into a more civilized broach to leeward. Boat goes over,spreaders in the water. Now the wind really cranks up just pounding us keeping Bite Me pinned for what seemed like a very long time.In reality it was probably only a couple or three minutes. The crew and I were perched up on the rail nicely including the guy who was below. None of us had lifejackets on and we were in very deep cold water. I was thinking that if Bite Me went down no big deal, I did not want to die in an old folks home anyway. Then as quickly as the wind hit us it was gone. The rest of the race,(about six hours) was back to 3ish kts, dull and unexciting.

 

Much discussion as to what had hit us. Thinking it must have been one of those wind shear things. Fortunatly the lake had been calm before it hit and as it was localized to our area, there were no waves to contend with. We did not take on any water even in the cockpit. Bite Me just floated on her side no big deal, just another Santana 23 adventure.

 

That sounds like a broach to windward, i.e., boat heels to leeward and 'rounds up' to windward. Chinese gybes are normally associated with broaches to leeward (i.e., boat rolls to windward and 'rounds down' into an uncontrolled/Chinese gybe).

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A windward mark near shore with blow from onshore fooled us into hoisting at the rounding despite all our evidence that it was blowin' 30 + on the coure, only 12-15 at the mark. new crew (son), some testosterone as we were nipping at the lead boat and all sorts of other bad excuses!!! But hey,rinsing the windex is needed now and again, lost only one place in the snafu but we did go down hard, Laser 28.

another boat from the design loft of the best broachers.

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Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.

 

Yep, and add the Contessa 35 and Ganbare 35 to that list. Essentially all the same hull.

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Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.

 

Yep, and add the Contessa 35 and Ganbare 35 to that list. Essentially all the same hull.

 

 

Another not so well know twitcher IMHO, would be the Tartan Pride 27. I found the boat out of control in anything over 10 true.

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Have to agree with the Capri 25. Sailed one back in the mid eighties on LIS. You almost had to hike off the stern to keep that tiny rudder in the water. Once you started healing at all the rudder would lose traction and it was all over.

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Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.

 

Yep, and add the Contessa 35 and Ganbare 35 to that list. Essentially all the same hull.

 

Yup. I used sail the Peterson/Ganbare/Martin Mk II's a lot. Scary when windy downwind. The 33's were just as bad (Chaser/Buccaneer/ US) but you had to deal with a very heavy helm when loaded. We lost a rig on one of those at Race Rocks in Swiftsure. Probably in 25 knots+ and lots of current sheer added to fun. It was '80 or '81 I think but the rigs were problematic for those boats too.

 

I sailed a 35 Mk II in '76 or '77 that was optimized for IOR bow down trim to get the rating low. I think there was a bunch of lead or oversized batteries forward of the mast. It was wicked fast for it's rating and optimized for 12 knots upwind but at 15 knots downwind it started to do the dance. 25 knots? Friggin' frightening! In another Swiftsure we blew up 3 kites in an hour and a half. We all were standing behind the helmsman except the spin grinder so we could try to keep the rudder in the water. Talk about "blowing the vang!"

 

Yikes.

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I remember years ago watching Marty Slagowitz's Yom Kippur Clipper death rolling down the sound during the old days of Manhasset Fall Series round the bouy's.

I wonder if House Salad have any shots

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Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.

post-12572-044699800 1323725803_thumb.png

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Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down. The PT 32 or the Chance 30-30 for example. I'd never sail alongside either of those - to windward OR leeward - in a breeze. Broached a Chance 54 all the way to Hawaii in the 80's. Damn thing wanted to go to Japan or Tahiti, randomly, every other wave.

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Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.

 

There is a sequence of photos of a an X-102 doing exactly that. They basically pitched poled the boat but I don't think it's an X-102 in that picture.

 

In fairness to X-Yachts that was a highly modified 102 when I talked to Neils Jeppesen about it. It was a while ago and I think it was sort of like my Peterson 35 episode with the lead forward of mast for rating.

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Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.

 

Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.

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Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.

 

There is a sequence of photos of a an X-102 doing exactly that. They basically pitched poled the boat but I don't think it's an X-102 in that picture.

 

In fairness to X-Yachts that was a highly modified 102 when I talked to Neils Jeppesen about it. It was a while ago and I think it was sort of like my Peterson 35 episode with the lead forward of mast for rating.

 

I remember seeing that black & white photo sequence many years ago in some sailing mag (pre-internet days). Funny thing was, if I recall correctly, there didn't appear to be that much wind and the water was pretty flat.

 

About the Peterson 35's, the tiller steered ones were not as bad as the wheeled ones. I can't recall too many eventful broaches on the one I sailed on, but the driver was pretty good at keeping the boat under the rig.

 

Although I do remember a Straights Race years ago (1982 maybe?) where an Olson 30 (Leiko II) skitted by us, only to see them launch into a series of wild broaches. I do think we had dropped our kite by that point though. We passed them each time, and each time they got the Olson sorted out and skitted by us again. Eventually passed them for good on the uphill slog to Pt. Atkinson

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Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.

 

Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.

 

I forgot Bruce King...The Ericson 27 my dad owned. Yikes! Now that thing would roll you out of your bunk on anchor.

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I forgot Bruce King...The Ericson 27 my dad owned. Yikes! Now that thing would roll you out of your bunk on anchor.

 

Heh. I had occasion to sail on hull#1 of the Ericson-34 (the "3/4-tonner"). Shortly after the first few test sails, they put it back on the cradle and took a chainsaw to the "winch islands" that stuck out into the cockpit. Seems they discovered there wasn't nearly enough room to swing the tiller when things got wobbly... :P

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OOPs meant to post a pic of Bite Me and my new ride SuperBee (B25)

 

I had Santana 23 hull #107. Raced it for 14 years.

Last race I deathrolled and ejected the wife off the fordeck. She promply said, this boat has to GO. We now sail a 7.9, for the last 13 years.

Lot of wild stories from the 23 days. Wonder how the boat would have done with more weight in the daggerboard, like the S2

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Overall, pretty much any boat will go for a ride given the right conditions. The scary ones are those that do it it moderate winds and seas.

 

 

Rule 1. Put the bow under the center seam of that spinnaker or get wet. A good ior driver knows when he's lost it and uses the last 2 degrees of rudder to make it a round up rather than a round down.

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What about the Olson 30? I have sailed on one a few times in lite air but never downwind in a blow on the kite. Man, the Olson I was on would really acccelerate in the lite air puffs.

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Cool. A thread about my boats. And I'm reasonably qualified to put in my 2c.

Just been involved with a Quarter Ton project and dare I say it, you'd be hard pressed to find a twitchier boat than some of those puppies.

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Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.

 

Problem with that photo is that the BH41 is anything but a twitchy boat. Solid and stable as brick shithouse...and still a great IRC machine.

 

Great photo...wrong boat for the thread.

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I remember years ago watching Marty Slagowitz's Yom Kippur Clipper death rolling down the sound during the old days of Manhasset Fall Series round the bouy's.

I wonder if House Salad have any shots

 

Sorry, didn't start shooting Fall Series until 2003

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SJ 24 Never have so many be so scare going so slow! Rock n Roll!

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Hakuna%20Matata%20death%20roll.jpg

Yup - those Peterson 35's were just on rails!!! Maybe not a full on broach coach but it would do this for hours & hours - what fun! Pole in the water, boom in the water, pole in the water, boom in the water - ad nauseum. Until it went completely pear shaped.

 

We used think that was normal behavior. :blink:

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Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.

 

Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.

 

 

+1 only with Hawkeye at 48' in San Francisco :blink: Happy day goin' 6 knots sideways :D

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Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.

 

Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.

 

 

+1 only with Hawkeye at 48' in San Francisco :blink: Happy day goin' 6 knots sideways :D

 

Yup. and a 12" deep trough in the middle of hawkeye's foredeck kept things "interesting" while trying to stay on the boat long enough to be ready for the leeward mark.

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I think there are two series, the X102 (a 3/4 ton) was caught on film pitching like that, it occured at Burnham, pretty flat water and they were surfing on the stern wave of a 2 tonner (If I remember correctly) until they lost it. would have been in the early to mid 80's as IOR still ruled

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Hakuna%20Matata%20death%20roll.jpg

Yup - those Peterson 35's were just on rails!!! Maybe not a full on broach coach but it would do this for hours & hours - what fun! Pole in the water, boom in the water, pole in the water, boom in the water - ad nauseum. Until it went completely pear shaped.

 

We used think that was normal behavior. :blink:

 

Oh how true. And the 42 foot versions were just more power to make it even more scary. Rock Roll. Will it be a chinese or just a wipeout to weather !!!

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How could we have a twitchy boat thread without this puppy? MBDs infamous Sydney 40 Admiral's Cup design that was going to set the world on fire but somehow never quite kicked on from that auspicious start. The much touted $1 charter fee was probably good value for money.... but only just! Apparently, they cut a couple of feet off the back end of the hull mould for these lemons to come up with the Sydney 38.

post-13013-094206100 1323911624_thumb.jpg

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1323552677[/url]' post='3502045']

Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.

 

+1

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At the risk of death by stoning or being burned, my old Ross 830 sensitive to fore and aft trim especially under genaker in breeze. A common scenario would be genaker up, round up, head down, crew aft, head up and hold on for dear life.

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Wipeout! Force 10 at Cowes

Jocelyn Waller's Bashford Howison 41, Silk 2.

 

cowes.front.page_598.jpg

 

The story

An awesome days sailing, carnage all over the Solent that day. :P

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I think that was the day we were being towed back in a M24 with the rig around the keel. We were passed by the squadron launch with an old boy in the back in full yachting best. His comment, ‘damn bad luck chaps’.

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Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

 

1155136125-3-20081212.jpg

 

There was another Morgan T-series with a hump sticking out the side of the hull and a V-shaped transom that was a champion broacher, too. Oddly enough the Morgan 27 which looks very IOR-ish is actually a MORC boat and fairly well-behaved.

 

San Juan 30, the SJ-24s big sister. More = Better !!

;)

 

The Santana 23 will broach, aye... but it also has a balanced waterline and a 6' deep rudder. I've broached mine while sailing stupid but also done spinnaker runs in 20+ with relatively little headache. You just put the pole forward some and choke down with the twings.

 

Anybody here sail a Scampi 30? I have never sailed one myself but raced against one for a few years and that seemed to be a broachin' machine... it may have been the sailors though, they did not shine at spinnaker work in general.

 

FB- Doug

{eddit for tiypoes}

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My own design UNION JACK, a quarter pounder, a pretty extreme typical IOR type with a big rig. If you could sail UJ off the wind in a breeze you could sail anything.

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After a particularly henious pole snapping chinese (on a C&C 99 sorry to say). A guy on another boat told me he saw both sides of our keel.

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I second the Britt Chance boats as well. Sailed on one a 38 or 39 I can't recall exactly that was named Toro. I think it was originally designed as a centerboard but this one had a fixed keel shaped like a centerboard. Tons of lead in the bilges for ballast, huge fore triangle and super high aspect main that I firmly believe was for looks only. The mast step was at least 3 feet behind the trailing edge of the Center/Keel and I am sure that put all kinds of forces out of balance.

 

Going upwind the boat would heel to a point and then stop regardless of the wind very stable. As soon as you turned the corner, set the chute and headed downwind the boat turned into a metronome rocking back and forth. The mast head would be going through a 45 degree arc for the entire run with periodically interspersed wipe outs. Anytime the wind angle got beyond 120 people started to get nervous knowing what was coming. The only saving grace was that the boat was built like a tank. I remember putting in a through hull and the plug we drilled out was about two inches thick of solid fiberglass.

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Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

 

1155136125-3-20081212.jpg

 

There was another Morgan T-series with a hump sticking out the side of the hull and a V-shaped transom that was a champion broacher, too. Oddly enough the Morgan 27 which looks very IOR-ish is actually a MORC boat and fairly well-behaved.

 

San Juan 30, the SJ-24s big sister. More = Better !!

;)

 

The Santana 23 will broach, aye... but it also has a balanced waterline and a 6' deep rudder. I've broached mine while sailing stupid but also done spinnaker runs in 20+ with relatively little headache. You just put the pole forward some and choke down with the twings.

 

Anybody here sail a Scampi 30? I have never sailed one myself but raced against one for a few years and that seemed to be a broachin' machine... it may have been the sailors though, they did not shine at spinnaker work in general.

 

FB- Doug

{eddit for tiypoes}

Morgan 36T. Oh that keel! Very very fast upwind against ebven the Ganbare's, but even after over 15 years since I had one I get the heebie jeebies just thinking about off the wind in anything over say 20. You name it we did it. Would even have to go to a double headsail at times when others were still fairly stable. And a blooper. Well, as I've stated on other threads, was more trouble than it was worth, and I could never tell if it alleviated rolly poly but certainly wasn't "fast" with all the fiddling and distractions needed to keep it flying

 

TOG

 

My link

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Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

 

1155136125-3-20081212.jpg

 

Hey! don't pick on JK's Firecracker, no worse than a PT 30 or NA 40 or even a Catalina 38

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Mull design Ranger 28.... it has the form stability of an apple :ph34r:

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Lets take a Chance!!

 

I think this is the Chance 37 1 ton that we raced at the SD Ton Cup (Now the Yachting Cup), "Death Roll City" should have been it's name but it was called "Joaquin Murrieta"

 

22797d1214534250-britton-chance-portfolio-chance-37-arrangement.jpg

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Man, you have to hand it to Brit. He did it his own way. And, it sure was interesting. I respect his efforts. He was a bit weird but ran into him at Tinsley and we had the opportunity to almost talk, He was/is a shy guy and not a bad fellow. He took it on the chin with the MARINER thing. But he did have the balls to hang it out.

 

His WARRIOR kicked ass in Seattle for several years.

I think I'll just put him in my "hero" box.

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Man, you have to hand it to Brit. He did it his own way. And, it sure was interesting. I respect his efforts. He was a bit weird but ran into him at Tinsley and we had the opportunity to almost talk, He was/is a shy guy and not a bad fellow. He took it on the chin with the MARINER thing. But he did have the balls to hang it out.

 

His WARRIOR kicked ass in Seattle for several years.

I think I'll just put him in my "hero" box.

 

 

Wasn't Eclipse one of his? Very quick back in the day

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Man, you have to hand it to Brit. He did it his own way. And, it sure was interesting. I respect his efforts. He was a bit weird but ran into him at Tinsley and we had the opportunity to almost talk, He was/is a shy guy and not a bad fellow. He took it on the chin with the MARINER thing. But he did have the balls to hang it out.

 

His WARRIOR kicked ass in Seattle for several years.

I think I'll just put him in my "hero" box.

 

What was the name of the other one that one of the Buchan's had? Complete and utter slug. I recall watching them use an acetylene torch to melt out holes in the keel to "lighten" the thang.

 

TOG

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