Ben giving a beating...

Dixie · December 11, 2011

Hey Peter Huston you're wrong. So is Ben on this occasion, but to paraphrase Winston Churchill, "yes madam I may be drunk, but you are ugly and tomorrow i will be sober."

Ben has a huge amount of talent, part of which is his desire during race 9 of a 10 race series to convert a 2nd place to a 1st when his worst result in the first 8 races is 3rd. His attitude to winning is not "at all costs" but rather to never give anything away. That will be why he has got a few gold medals. Or maybe you are right and he has elevated to this status in international sailing by some conspiracy theory started before his 18th birthday... No, on reflection you are still wrong, and Ben, Giles and the rest of the GB finn squad are probably starting to sober up after a good night out.

So "if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors etc... ", please tell me which of the Finn fleet have criticised Ben. It all seems pretty quiet out there doesn't it? I believe that they are in awe of him.

Then why aren't we hearing a chorus of support?

johnnysaint · December 11, 2011

You doorknobs forget this is a foul on water ie at sea. You are all landlubbers and can only think about land based fouls...........sorry but this took place at sea. The asshole is guilty of piracy and should be in irons and not figuratively. No one steps on my yacht without permission or they are toast and if they take any steps deemed criminal ie assault, they are guilty of piracy..........can't you 'tards wake up and deal with these aholes as an at sea issue?

It's difficult to tell if you are just trolling..... or you really believe all that rubbish.

pjfranks · December 11, 2011

Hey Peter Huston you're wrong. So is Ben on this occasion, but to paraphrase Winston Churchill, "yes madam I may be drunk, but you are ugly and tomorrow i will be sober."

Ben has a huge amount of talent, part of which is his desire during race 9 of a 10 race series to convert a 2nd place to a 1st when his worst result in the first 8 races is 3rd. His attitude to winning is not "at all costs" but rather to never give anything away. That will be why he has got a few gold medals. Or maybe you are right and he has elevated to this status in international sailing by some conspiracy theory started before his 18th birthday... No, on reflection you are still wrong, and Ben, Giles and the rest of the GB finn squad are probably starting to sober up after a good night out.

So "if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors etc... ", please tell me which of the Finn fleet have criticised Ben. It all seems pretty quiet out there doesn't it? I believe that they are in awe of him.

Then why aren't we hearing a chorus of support?

AC34 style gagging order?

~Stingray~~ · December 11, 2011

Never watch NBA. Does the cameraman run around the court tripping up players while they are taking their shots?

No they do not. But some players, especially the ones who generate the most value to the NBA viewership, get so many ref calls go their way, with resulting air time making free throws and more points, that a lot of the audience just takes favoritism for granted any more - frustrating as it may be.

Without knowing the rules well enough to know any better, it 'feels' like the penalty meted out here insulates the officials from charges of favoritism in this case; but that mention by Stuart A of a potential conflict of interest between BA and S+V's neutrality just is the kind of thing that tends to drive me nuts! Okay, will let go of that bone for now.. And my hypothetical above about what BA ~could~ have said, was only to try illustrate that point.

johnnysaint · December 11, 2011

Hey Peter Huston you're wrong. So is Ben on this occasion, but to paraphrase Winston Churchill, "yes madam I may be drunk, but you are ugly and tomorrow i will be sober."

Ben has a huge amount of talent, part of which is his desire during race 9 of a 10 race series to convert a 2nd place to a 1st when his worst result in the first 8 races is 3rd. His attitude to winning is not "at all costs" but rather to never give anything away. That will be why he has got a few gold medals. Or maybe you are right and he has elevated to this status in international sailing by some conspiracy theory started before his 18th birthday... No, on reflection you are still wrong, and Ben, Giles and the rest of the GB finn squad are probably starting to sober up after a good night out.

So "if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors etc... ", please tell me which of the Finn fleet have criticised Ben. It all seems pretty quiet out there doesn't it? I believe that they are in awe of him.

Then why aren't we hearing a chorus of support?

Probably because all the Finn sailors are not here.

If you could ask, I'm sure that you would find almost all the Finn guys would support BA. They would understand why he did what he did. They might not condone it, but few would condemn him like some of the keyboard would be sailors here.

Sloan · December 11, 2011

That reinforces the notion, already made obvious by BA's actions, that wakes matter.

If you raced dinghies you would know that power boat wakes can be game changing in a race. Even the residual wake travelling upwind from a large vessel that passed the course area a mile away can influence racing. Having a large heavy RIB moving at just beyond displacement speeds tossing up a huge standing wave of half a meter will either be very quick or very slow for surrounding dinghies as the boats around it are forced to punch thru a moving wall of water. You get onto the face of a wave like that, that is moving fast enough and you are gone, never to be caught again by those who missed it. If Ainslie really copped large boat wake coming from the wrong angle all the way from the last mark to the finish line it is no wonder he lost it.

Making allegations that a large official RIB would knowingly advantage certain sailors is false too, as other sailors would see it happening consistently and it would be an issue very quickly. Other than that, not everyone aspires to win by cheating.

I bet that everyone that has raced with Jury boats buzzing around has quietly hitched a ride when a jury boat happened to be in the wrong place or has sped off leaving rideable wake behind them.

Or the classic, a large cruiser powering along on the same angle as the downwind leg of a windward leeward course. Those that can get on its wake have the race in the bag as they round the bottom gate 500 meters ahead of those who missed it and all in in just a few minutes sailing.

Yeah, power boat wakes do matter and that is why a decent course area should be as clean of wake as possible.

MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS · December 11, 2011

Sunset+Vine International strengthens sailing portfolio

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Sunset+Vine|APP, renowned as the world’s largest and leading sailing production company, will

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host broadcaster.

Sunset+Vine will be showcasing its production and distribution portfolios at Sportel Monaco, the

International sports convention for television and new media, which will be held from October 11 to 14

in Monaco.

Both Sunset+Vine and Sunset+Vine|APP are owned by the leading media company Tinopolis.

Ends

ABOUT SUNSET+VINE

International

Sunset+Vine International is the distribution arm of UK Production Company Sunset+Vine. Over the past 25 years it has built

up a global reputation as one of the top sports distribution agencies, and has earned numerous accolades including the

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Sunset+Vine|APP

Sunset+Vine|APP is the world’s largest and leading sailing production company.

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embedded and producing high quality content from news to vodcasts to documentaries to programme series.

~Stingray~~ · December 11, 2011

Good post, Sloan.

Tornado-Cat · December 11, 2011

PERTH, AUSTRALIA - DECEMBER 10: Ben Ainslie of Great Britain talks with Sunset Vine staff on day 8 after completing the Finn gold fleet race of the 2011 ISAF Sailing World Championships on December 10, 2011 in Perth, Australia.

Apart from one article,what proof do we have that BA has interest with S+V ?

nutz · December 11, 2011

That reinforces the notion, already made obvious by BA's actions, that wakes matter.

If you raced dinghies you would know that power boat wakes can be game changing in a race. Even the residual wake travelling upwind from a large vessel that passed the course area a mile away can influence racing. Having a large heavy RIB moving at just beyond displacement speeds tossing up a huge standing wave of half a meter will either be very quick or very slow for surrounding dinghies as the boats around it are forced to punch thru a moving wall of water. You get onto the face of a wave like that, that is moving fast enough and you are gone, never to be caught again by those who missed it. If Ainslie really copped large boat wake coming from the wrong angle all the way from the last mark to the finish line it is no wonder he lost it.

Making allegations that a large official RIB would knowingly advantage certain sailors is false too, as other sailors would see it happening consistently and it would be an issue very quickly. Other than that, not everyone aspires to win by cheating.

I bet that everyone that has raced with Jury boats buzzing around has quietly hitched a ride when a jury boat happened to be in the wrong place or has sped off leaving rideable wake behind them.

Or the classic, a large cruiser powering along on the same angle as the downwind leg of a windward leeward course. Those that can get on its wake have the race in the bag as they round the bottom gate 500 meters ahead of those who missed it and all in in just a few minutes sailing.

Yeah, power boat wakes do matter and that is why a decent course area should be as clean of wake as possible.

I saw some of the footage that channel ten took showing the wake that may have affected ainslie. The powerboat was running along the same course as ainslie and it didn't appear to me that it would have affected him THAT much, certainly not enough to warrent jumping off his boat. They commented on the incident though and being politcally correct they called it an "alleged" incident, not really alleged when you have pics of it happeneing. One thing that annoyed me about the comments was that they always sit on the fence in these situations, commentators never have an opinion anymore, boring, just sit they with a goofy smile.

I watched the 18s on there website the other day and watched the 7 skiff have to delay there hoist because of a ferry (they were in 2nd place), didn't see them abusing or jumping on the ferry cause it was in there way. And yes I am well aware the ferry's will not alter course etc. This has happened to me as well, you just have to deal with it, handle it professionlly.

johnnysaint · December 11, 2011

That reinforces the notion, already made obvious by BA's actions, that wakes matter.

If you raced dinghies you would know that power boat wakes can be game changing in a race. Even the residual wake travelling upwind from a large vessel that passed the course area a mile away can influence racing. Having a large heavy RIB moving at just beyond displacement speeds tossing up a huge standing wave of half a meter will either be very quick or very slow for surrounding dinghies as the boats around it are forced to punch thru a moving wall of water. You get onto the face of a wave like that, that is moving fast enough and you are gone, never to be caught again by those who missed it. If Ainslie really copped large boat wake coming from the wrong angle all the way from the last mark to the finish line it is no wonder he lost it.

Making allegations that a large official RIB would knowingly advantage certain sailors is false too, as other sailors would see it happening consistently and it would be an issue very quickly. Other than that, not everyone aspires to win by cheating.

I bet that everyone that has raced with Jury boats buzzing around has quietly hitched a ride when a jury boat happened to be in the wrong place or has sped off leaving rideable wake behind them.

Or the classic, a large cruiser powering along on the same angle as the downwind leg of a windward leeward course. Those that can get on its wake have the race in the bag as they round the bottom gate 500 meters ahead of those who missed it and all in in just a few minutes sailing.

Yeah, power boat wakes do matter and that is why a decent course area should be as clean of wake as possible.

I saw some of the footage that channel ten took showing the wake that may have affected ainslie. The powerboat was running along the same course as ainslie and it didn't appear to me that it would have affected him THAT much, certainly not enough to warrent jumping off his boat. They commented on the incident though and being politcally correct they called it an "alleged" incident, not really alleged when you have pics of it happeneing. One thing that annoyed me about the comments was that they always sit on the fence in these situations, commentators never have an opinion anymore, boring, just sit they with a goofy smile.

I watched the 18s on there website the other day and watched the 7 skiff have to delay there hoist because of a ferry (they were in 2nd place), didn't see them abusing or jumping on the ferry cause it was in there way. And yes I am well aware the ferry's will not alter course etc. This has happened to me as well, you just have to deal with it, handle it professionlly.

You cannot be serious making a comparison with the ferry can you?

Ferries have indisputable ROW on Sydney Harbour.

Sloan · December 11, 2011

I saw some of the footage that channel ten took showing the wake that may have affected ainslie. The powerboat was running along the same course as ainslie and it didn't appear to me that it would have affected him THAT much, certainly not enough to warrent jumping off his boat. They commented on the incident though and being politcally correct they called it an "alleged" incident, not really alleged when you have pics of it happeneing. One thing that annoyed me about the comments was that they always sit on the fence in these situations, commentators never have an opinion anymore, boring, just sit they with a goofy smile.

I watched the 18s on there website the other day and watched the 7 skiff have to delay there hoist because of a ferry (they were in 2nd place), didn't see them abusing or jumping on the ferry cause it was in there way. And yes I am well aware the ferry's will not alter course etc. This has happened to me as well, you just have to deal with it, handle it professionlly.

KInda hard to jump onto a 3 story high ferry moving at 10 knot or so to give the Master on board a good dressing down. Now the Cadman, that is a whole different story. I think they are employing ex Sydney ferry crew nowadays as they seem to think they have the same rights as the Manly ferries, either that or the Master of the vessel has finally cracked and is now past caring what he does.

nutz · December 12, 2011

I saw some of the footage that channel ten took showing the wake that may have affected ainslie. The powerboat was running along the same course as ainslie and it didn't appear to me that it would have affected him THAT much, certainly not enough to warrent jumping off his boat. They commented on the incident though and being politcally correct they called it an "alleged" incident, not really alleged when you have pics of it happeneing. One thing that annoyed me about the comments was that they always sit on the fence in these situations, commentators never have an opinion anymore, boring, just sit they with a goofy smile.

I watched the 18s on there website the other day and watched the 7 skiff have to delay there hoist because of a ferry (they were in 2nd place), didn't see them abusing or jumping on the ferry cause it was in there way. And yes I am well aware the ferry's will not alter course etc. This has happened to me as well, you just have to deal with it, handle it professionlly.

KInda hard to jump onto a 3 story high ferry moving at 10 knot or so to give the Master on board a good dressing down. Now the Cadman, that is a whole different story. I think they are employing ex Sydney ferry crew nowadays as they seem to think they have the same rights as the Manly ferries, either that or the Master of the vessel has finally cracked and is now past caring what he does.

Well the ferry thing was taken out of context. And yes I am VERY aware that ferry's will never alter course of change speed, they have screwed me in 12 titles on the harbour, one reason I hate sailing in the harbour, all the ferry's and boat wash. So ok the ferry was a bad example, but I couldn't think of another. And by the way I'm not aware of the "Brodie Cobb??" story?

I'm sure all of us at some point have been screwed by some dickhead on a powerboat. I know I had an incident with a jetski once that resulted in some very colourful language and idle threats, sure it won't be the last either. I had to wave away some ferry's and big stinkboats this weekend just gone.

kiwi_jon · December 12, 2011

Apart from one article,what proof do we have that BA has interest with S+V ?

None.

Huston got the wrong end of stick and Spinray ran with it.

Ainslie is represented by Sports Marketing and PR company 'Into the Blue' http://intotheblue.biz

Into the Blue use Sunset+Vine to produce promo/marketing videos for their clients, including Ben.

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

Apart from one article,what proof do we have that BA has interest with S+V ?

None.

That is good and comforting if true. Good Q btw, TC.

Curious that Stuart brought it up though; he does often have the inside skinny on things BA.

kiwi_jon · December 12, 2011

Apart from one article,what proof do we have that BA has interest with S+V ?

None.

That is good and comforting if true. Good Q btw, TC.

Curious that Stuart brought it up though; he does often have the inside skinny on things BA.

What did Stuart bring up. He said

The boat's driver works for a television company, Sunset+Vine, with close links to Ainslie's PR firm,

He did not say Ainslie owned the PR company, which is what you and Huston assumed.

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

^ Agreed, 'close links' needs definition, so thanks for looking into it.

PH's pov on the general 'they are all just actors on ISAF's stage' is somewhat different from mine, btw.

ro! · December 12, 2011

Are you suggesting somehow that the RIB had been helping more than hindering?

Two posters above who have seen the TV film have said that, on the reach to the finish, the wake may have benefitted Postma and hindered BA. That reinforces the notion, already made obvious by BA's actions, that wakes matter.

This is hypothetical since we do ~not~ know what BA said to the driver but what if it had been along the lines of "I own you, you stupid little bastard, are you too f*cking stupid to lay the wake where I want it instead of where he wants it? Your ass is grass!" And.. the driver apparently has been 'redirected' - so is there really no possibilty of 'influence peddling' going on? Could fairness and impartiality, versus financial and/or in-your-face pressure to the contrary, not be the even more serious issue at stake?

As to who the RIB was helping more than hindering earlier in the race, or in other races, well someone probably should take a close look - just in case.

Your posts get nuttier by the minute..I guess the pinot gets opened earlier on Sundays...

You are not spinning now, you are just making shit up to try and put down BA..who if you knew anything about him would never say the fucking rubbish you wrote above...

It's time to give your loony conspiracy theories a rest..you are beginning to sound like the crazed indian or hastings

It's now obvious you don't race sailboats..because of course wakes matter..and it doesn't take this incident to happen for the rest of us to know it....

This boat interfered with BA earlier in the regatta and on the last 2 legs of the race where he lost his cool..pretty strange for a boat that you are saying was out there to help him...

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

Hi again, genius..

It is a hypothetical posed, to illustrate the potential problem IF there had been, as Stuart A. curiously suggested in his article in The Independent, a business relationship.

Take your bizarre Pinot and TE delusions to bed yourself. Nobody cares your silly fantasies, they add nothing to the actual subjects at hand. Got any better material or are you a stuck record?

PeterHuston · December 12, 2011

Apart from one article,what proof do we have that BA has interest with S+V ?

None.

Huston got the wrong end of stick and Spinray ran with it.

Ainslie is represented by Sports Marketing and PR company 'Into the Blue' http://intotheblue.biz

Into the Blue use Sunset+Vine to produce promo/marketing videos for their clients, including Ben.

How exactly did I get the wrong end of the stick?

I have been saying the whole I$AF money equation is all just a bit too cozy for anyone to think Olympic sailing is anything other than about the money. One hand washes the other.

You prove exactly my point when you say that the PR firm that represents Ainslie uses Sunset & Vine to make videos of him for marketing purposes. So of course Sunset & Vine is going to damn well do what Ballistic Ben tells them too, and if that means not showing up for a hearing, and instantly accepting an apology and admitting their error, well duh, of course that is what is going to happen. Ben probably didn't have to say a word either, one of his handlers probably took care of all for him.

Besides, of course Sunset & Vine isn't going to help make an issue out of this incident. Your chain clearly shows Ainslie is a client, and, they need full access to him for all this programming. They probably already had a ton of B-roll footage on him for their shows. They need unlimited access to him for the future as well. If Ballistic Ben told them shove a pinnaple up their ass like Dalton was once told to do, I'd bet they'd ask if he wanted them to shave first. Sunset & Vine has no economic incentive to care about the historical standards of sporting behavior standards. If one of their clients roughs up one of their production crew a bit, so what, it's just business. Keep your mouth shut and keep the money coming in.

So thanks for doing all the specific research to exactly prove my point. I knew the generalities, but not the specifics.

Finnfart · December 12, 2011

Hey Peter Huston you're wrong. So is Ben on this occasion, but to paraphrase Winston Churchill, "yes madam I may be drunk, but you are ugly and tomorrow i will be sober."

Ben has a huge amount of talent, part of which is his desire during race 9 of a 10 race series to convert a 2nd place to a 1st when his worst result in the first 8 races is 3rd. His attitude to winning is not "at all costs" but rather to never give anything away. That will be why he has got a few gold medals. Or maybe you are right and he has elevated to this status in international sailing by some conspiracy theory started before his 18th birthday... No, on reflection you are still wrong, and Ben, Giles and the rest of the GB finn squad are probably starting to sober up after a good night out.

So "if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors etc... ", please tell me which of the Finn fleet have criticised Ben. It all seems pretty quiet out there doesn't it? I believe that they are in awe of him.

It may be quiet out there in the fleet, but I'd say it is because of the way the Finns roll. Things may have changed, but the Finn fleet is very much about "lets settle it on the water". That is why there were big guys intimidating others to try to void the dsq of Chris Law in 1978. And most of us didn't mind. When a race committee starts to impact the outcome of the race, the Finn fleet becomes a motorcycle gang. (kind of always is)

And yes, I'm sure that they are in awe of BA just as we were of Law, Bertrand and Coutts. But if any of them had cheated to gain, they would have woken up to a hole in their boat. It's just against the Finn ethos for a 1 minute rule in sloppy conditions on a short line to eliminate a contender. Just as today I'm sure the fleet sees RIBs making entertainment product affecting the outcome of the race - be it through incompetence or malfeasance as deserving of a rumble. And they wouldn't give a damn what the definition of assault was to the lawyers present. They'd care about the honor of the battle.

I guess in a nutshell, the Finn fleet is closer to the rugby set than the yachtie set.

KiwiJoker · December 12, 2011

PERTH, AUSTRALIA - DECEMBER 10: Ben Ainslie of Great Britain talks with Sunset Vine staff on day 8 after completing the Finn gold fleet race of the 2011 ISAF Sailing World Championships on December 10, 2011 in Perth, Australia.

Apart from one article,what proof do we have that BA has interest with S+V ?

The guy in black is Andrew Preece, Exec Director of Sunset+Vine|APP. Whatever beef BA had with the TV company appears to be settled.

So there might be a link between S+V and Ainslie's PR company. So what? Dunno what SA's driving at. No obvious conflict, that's for sure. The TV boat didn't help him. It hurt him.

I hear the volunteer boat driver got flicked. That's kinda tough. Yes he's ultimately responsible for his boat's movements but in a typical media boat situation he would only be going where directed, um ... urged, and urgently ... by the cameraman.

I'm all for having an official TV boat or boats on course but only if driven and positioned responsibly. From what I've been told the S+V TV boat was hot-dogging it on a number of occasions and to the detriment of several competitors.

That problem should be laid at the door of ISAF and the race committee.

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

^ Seems to me that S+V is the top echelon of sailing coverage, no surprise if ISAF, AC34 Weekly Videos, BA Promotions, MedCup and probably others give them business.

On AC34, there's been quite a lot done by CNN Mainsail, thru Shirley Robertson via S+V, most recently on Energy Team. But they seem to have little direct relationship w AC/ACWS officiating or on the water boats; unlike, possibly, with ISAF's media boats.

Daimond · December 12, 2011

Hey Peter Huston you're wrong. So is Ben on this occasion, but to paraphrase Winston Churchill, "yes madam I may be drunk, but you are ugly and tomorrow i will be sober."

Ben has a huge amount of talent, part of which is his desire during race 9 of a 10 race series to convert a 2nd place to a 1st when his worst result in the first 8 races is 3rd. His attitude to winning is not "at all costs" but rather to never give anything away. That will be why he has got a few gold medals. Or maybe you are right and he has elevated to this status in international sailing by some conspiracy theory started before his 18th birthday... No, on reflection you are still wrong, and Ben, Giles and the rest of the GB finn squad are probably starting to sober up after a good night out.

So "if in winning the race you have lost the respect of your competitors etc... ", please tell me which of the Finn fleet have criticised Ben. It all seems pretty quiet out there doesn't it? I believe that they are in awe of him.

It may be quiet out there in the fleet, but I'd say it is because of the way the Finns roll. Things may have changed, but the Finn fleet is very much about "lets settle it on the water". That is why there were big guys intimidating others to try to void the dsq of Chris Law in 1978. And most of us didn't mind. When a race committee starts to impact the outcome of the race, the Finn fleet becomes a motorcycle gang. (kind of always is)

And yes, I'm sure that they are in awe of BA just as we were of Law, Bertrand and Coutts. But if any of them had cheated to gain, they would have woken up to a hole in their boat. It's just against the Finn ethos for a 1 minute rule in sloppy conditions on a short line to eliminate a contender. Just as today I'm sure the fleet sees RIBs making entertainment product affecting the outcome of the race - be it through incompetence or malfeasance as deserving of a rumble. And they wouldn't give a damn what the definition of assault was to the lawyers present. They'd care about the honor of the battle.

I guess in a nutshell, the Finn fleet is closer to the rugby set than the yachtie set.

I guess that explains why they can't sail an AC45 worth a damn

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

^ Am looking forward to what the Finn sailors on GCR will be able to do, after getting into their AC45 for a real practice session for the first time. We saw ET and Aleph pull off some incredible racing in SD, it is entirely possible that Naples will produce upsets too.

What was it, 5 of the world's top 10 Finn sailors are leaning into GCR? That just has to be serious talent.

johnnysaint · December 12, 2011

So of course Sunset & Vine is going to damn well do what Ballistic Ben tells them too, and if that means not showing up for a hearing, and instantly accepting an apology and admitting their error, well duh, of course that is what is going to happen. Ben probably didn't have to say a word either, one of his handlers probably took care of all for him.

Boy do you get your facts wrong. The driver of the RIB DID show up at the hearing and gave evidence as did I believe the cameraman. The hearing would not have progressed without them. Sunset & Vine did not bring a camera to the hearing because they knew they would not be allowed to record proceedings. Nothing sinister in that, though I'm sure you will invent something. Only in the US can someone video court proceedings and turn such things into a circus - for a buck.

BingC · December 12, 2011

From Sparky:

"There have been various rumours in the media about Ben having 'assaulted' the driver of the boat. As far as we're concerned there wasn't an assault which took place, and as far as the driver was concerned that was part of his statement to the jury so we're pretty keen to put that to bed and recognised that that's a bit of over exaggeration and sensationalism.

"While we accept the penalty from the jury and do not condone Ben's behaviour, I would hope, on the basis of the jury's facts found, that it is recognised that lessons need to be learned both from the side of the International Sailing Federation as organising authority as well as the sailors. At the moment the sport seems to be fumbling its way into trying to make the sport more appealing for television but surely there is a better way than trialling new race formats, rule regulations and specifically in this case media initiatives than trialling them at the World Championship which is arguably the most important event in the Olympic cycle outside of the Games themselves."

Sparky's Statement seems to make sense, but we must remeber they're all big boys out there and there are grown up ways of dealing with this sort of thing by putting protests into the committee etc.. Usually we have our temper tantrums when we're 3yrs old and learn our less,on then so a real shame for Ben to learn his so late in life. For sure he'll come back stonger at the next event, remebering that we all go sailing and racing for sailings sake not for media or to be a celeb.

Wrong. Ainslie races for money. Period. Everything about the guy in the sport is about money. Nothing wrong with that. Just please don't say "we all go sailing and racing for sailings sake and not for media or to a celeb".

The whole pro sailing equation is about media and celebrity, to whatever extent that happens within the sport.

Totally correct. There is nothing remotely Corinthian about it. SA posters seek empathy with these people and they just laugh at the silly dupes with there wannabe mentality. Most SA posters that support the current AC and its professionals also have a Nascar reproduction couch in front of their TV's. Such sad dupes.

Ok, I accept that, then the punishment isn't enough. They are still role models for the kids and that behaviour shouldn't be tollerated at any level.

~HHN92~ · December 12, 2011

Let's see BA pull that stunt off an AC72 into SF Bay.

He wil get punishment enough if he tries it there.

PeterHuston · December 12, 2011

So of course Sunset & Vine is going to damn well do what Ballistic Ben tells them too, and if that means not showing up for a hearing, and instantly accepting an apology and admitting their error, well duh, of course that is what is going to happen. Ben probably didn't have to say a word either, one of his handlers probably took care of all for him.

Boy do you get your facts wrong. The driver of the RIB DID show up at the hearing and gave evidence as did I believe the cameraman. The hearing would not have progressed without them. Sunset & Vine did not bring a camera to the hearing because they knew they would not be allowed to record proceedings. Nothing sinister in that, though I'm sure you will invent something. Only in the US can someone video court proceedings and turn such things into a circus - for a buck.

Thanks for being Johnny on the Spot with who was doing what when.

I know you pretty much hate everything about America, and think all Americans are freeloaders, but we can put that aside for a moment.

I also know you are on in years, and so maybe your reading comprehension skills aren't what they once were, but perhaps you'll go back and re-read my post and you'll see the use of the word "if" as a qualifier to everything.

PeterHuston · December 12, 2011

From Sparky:

"There have been various rumours in the media about Ben having 'assaulted' the driver of the boat. As far as we're concerned there wasn't an assault which took place, and as far as the driver was concerned that was part of his statement to the jury so we're pretty keen to put that to bed and recognised that that's a bit of over exaggeration and sensationalism.

"While we accept the penalty from the jury and do not condone Ben's behaviour, I would hope, on the basis of the jury's facts found, that it is recognised that lessons need to be learned both from the side of the International Sailing Federation as organising authority as well as the sailors. At the moment the sport seems to be fumbling its way into trying to make the sport more appealing for television but surely there is a better way than trialling new race formats, rule regulations and specifically in this case media initiatives than trialling them at the World Championship which is arguably the most important event in the Olympic cycle outside of the Games themselves."

Sparky's Statement seems to make sense, but we must remeber they're all big boys out there and there are grown up ways of dealing with this sort of thing by putting protests into the committee etc.. Usually we have our temper tantrums when we're 3yrs old and learn our less,on then so a real shame for Ben to learn his so late in life. For sure he'll come back stonger at the next event, remebering that we all go sailing and racing for sailings sake not for media or to be a celeb.

Wrong. Ainslie races for money. Period. Everything about the guy in the sport is about money. Nothing wrong with that. Just please don't say "we all go sailing and racing for sailings sake and not for media or to a celeb".

The whole pro sailing equation is about media and celebrity, to whatever extent that happens within the sport.

Totally correct. There is nothing remotely Corinthian about it. SA posters seek empathy with these people and they just laugh at the silly dupes with there wannabe mentality. Most SA posters that support the current AC and its professionals also have a Nascar reproduction couch in front of their TV's. Such sad dupes.

Ok, I accept that, then the punishment isn't enough. They are still role models for the kids and that behaviour shouldn't be tollerated at any level.

I understand and accept your sentiment about Ballistic Ben's Bad Behavior not being acceptable, and that there should be more punishment. What exactly that should be, I'm not sure. I do think banning him from the Games would be a bit much.

That said, with all the intertwined economic interests in play here, hard to see philosophy winning out over cash.

sumpin · December 12, 2011

skipped to this page and like most of you I am not there...so the sound bite from me is " Ben You are a TOOL"..oh, wait. Forgot the money part

"ben, I'm guessing you're a tool"

"Grea sailor no doubt but can I guess you might be a tool?"

Um, stuff happens that shouldn't, Um. I'm guessing that......BEER ME and put your response in the parking lot

Finnfart · December 12, 2011

^ Am looking forward to what the Finn sailors on GCR will be able to do, after getting into their AC45 for a real practice session for the first time. We saw ET and Aleph pull off some incredible racing in SD, it is entirely possible that Naples will produce upsets too.

What was it, 5 of the world's top 10 Finn sailors are leaning into GCR? That just has to be serious talent.

I agree, and I'm hoping for them.

But in my experience, Finn sailors rarely make great crew. I know I never enjoyed crewing bigger boats anything like I did racing my Finn. I know some do, but the killer instinct the boat teaches is best used at the helm.

Its hard to go from master of your universe to being a cog.

There may be fireworks at GCR from too many cooks... though I'm hoping the gang can pull it off.

johnnysaint · December 12, 2011

So of course Sunset & Vine is going to damn well do what Ballistic Ben tells them too, and if that means not showing up for a hearing, and instantly accepting an apology and admitting their error, well duh, of course that is what is going to happen. Ben probably didn't have to say a word either, one of his handlers probably took care of all for him.

Boy do you get your facts wrong. The driver of the RIB DID show up at the hearing and gave evidence as did I believe the cameraman. The hearing would not have progressed without them. Sunset & Vine did not bring a camera to the hearing because they knew they would not be allowed to record proceedings. Nothing sinister in that, though I'm sure you will invent something. Only in the US can someone video court proceedings and turn such things into a circus - for a buck.

Thanks for being Johnny on the Spot with who was doing what when.

I know you pretty much hate everything about America, and think all Americans are freeloaders, but we can put that aside for a moment.

I also know you are on in years, and so maybe your reading comprehension skills aren't what they once were, but perhaps you'll go back and re-read my post and you'll see the use of the word "if" as a qualifier to everything.

I am not in Perth, but close enough to find out more than you can from the other side of the world.

Your posts have been just utter fantasy.

By the way, I do know quite a few yanks. Possibly even a few that you know, though the ones I know would probably deny knowing you. Apart from a couple of loudmouth ratbags, most are good blokes/sheilas.

ro! · December 12, 2011

Hi again, genius..

It is a hypothetical posed, to illustrate the potential problem IF there had been, as Stuart A. curiously suggested in his article in The Independent, a business relationship.

Take your bizarre Pinot and TE delusions to bed yourself. Nobody cares your silly fantasies, they add nothing to the actual subjects at hand. Got any better material or are you a stuck record?

Yesterday when I said what if le had given 17 to SF you said..

.

LE giving the Cup Winner to SF is a hypothetical and not worth arguing about

and yet today you are coming up with these loony hypothetical posts which are only meant to put down BA, using stupid language he would never use...

Maybe you should start looking into unethical business relationships a bit closer to home before going to a world championship you know fuck all about..

emf...

Tornado-Cat · December 12, 2011

1. Did BA try to be helped with a power boat before ? Competitors should know. If not, why would he do it this time ? So, if it is not the case I think we should stop these very nasty accusations.

2. Who hired S+V, BA or ISAF ? If it's Isaf, they penalized the competitor and indirectly got the power boat driver fired. Good to make exciting videos but what is THEIR responsability ?

3. Back to AC, if an ACRM helicopter flies too close of, let us say TNZ AC72, and make her pitchpole. GD claims it is their fault, will he be penalized by the gag order ?

BTW, I allways thought Finn sailors would not be good multi sailors and, up to now, they prove it right...

Tornado-Cat · December 12, 2011

Let's see BA pull that stunt off an AC72 into SF Bay.

He wil get punishment enough if he tries it there.

Ah, why ? do you watch Hockey games ? the motor boat driver was not punched inconscious with a concussion, isn't it ?

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

Ballistic Ben has had the talent and good fortune to create a niche for himself in dinghy sailing where he can and does sail for money. Ever notice all the logo's on his boat and personal website, not the least of which is JP Morgan.

Yes he makes some money out of sailing. Even good money. Your claim however went a great deal further than that. You wrote:

"Wrong. Ainslie races for money. Period. Everything about the guy in the sport is about money."

In other words, that he has no interest in racing except as a source of income. It's a slur and an inaccurate one. The problem in this case was that he did care about the racing. Too much.

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

1. Did BA try to be helped with a power boat before ? Competitors should know. If not, why would he do it this time ? So, if it is not the case I think we should stop these very nasty accusations.

The difference between one end where you are helped, compared to the other end where you are hindered, is a sliding scale.

Which end do you suppose BA, or anyone, wanted to be at in R9?

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

Hi again, genius..

It is a hypothetical posed, to illustrate the potential problem IF there had been, as Stuart A. curiously suggested in his article in The Independent, a business relationship.

Take your bizarre Pinot and TE delusions to bed yourself. Nobody cares your silly fantasies, they add nothing to the actual subjects at hand. Got any better material or are you a stuck record?

Yesterday when I said what if le had given 17 to SF you said..

.

LE giving the Cup Winner to SF is a hypothetical and not worth arguing about

and yet today you are coming up with these loony hypothetical posts which are only meant to put down BA, using stupid language he would never use...

Maybe you should start looking into unethical business relationships a bit closer to home before going to a world championship you know fuck all about..

emf...

The situation where EB dumped A5 onto Rita's court had nothing to do with anything that suggests any rule application bias. It has nothing to do with the hypothetical situation that might possibly exist in this completely unrelated thread, given the suggestion by Stuart A that the media boat's interests collude well with BA's success; and that despite BA having already lost the race by the time he took the final turn onto the reaching finish leg, BA still took violent exception to someone else, Postma who was already well ahead, being the alleged wake beneficiary from that boat instead of it benefitting him.

Eat your own f* if your are too ingenious to also see the big difference.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

I have been saying the whole I$AF money equation is all just a bit too cozy for anyone to think Olympic sailing is anything other than about the money.

I know several Olympic medallists. A number belong to my club. Nobody makes what any middle-class adult would consider a good living directly out of Olympic sailing. A minority transition to make a good income post-Olympics, either in sailing or associated activities such as media. Most don't.

Your repeated assertion that it's all about the money for the sailors is ludicrously inaccurate and a huge disrespect to the sailors involved.

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

^ Are you seriously trying to suggest BA isn't in this for money? How then do you explain all of the, well, almost everything about him?

There's a good chance his negotiation strategy between, say, Oracle and Artemis, is all about extracting the highest possible money for himself. Is that wrong too, or should he just stay with the Olympics for another few rounds, for your and the Queen's sake?

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

Your chain clearly shows Ainslie is a client (of S&V)

Doesn't actually. Would you care to point us at any film coverage BA has commissioned from S&V or do you just like putting two and two together to make five?

Into the Blue is the PR organisation for many if not most of the handful of individuals and organisations in British sailing that need one. S&V is (arguably) the leading producer of TV coverage for sailing, including coverage of some of Into the Blue's clients which include, for example, an ESS team. That's the "close link". Or does anyone actually know more than that.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

^ Are you seriously trying to suggest BA isn't in this for money?

Try and pay attention to what Huston has been saying and the point with which I'm taking issue.

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

^ Fine repose, but I think PH is suggesting that ISAF as a whole has a vested interest in BA's success, more so than SV even might. Is it possible you are also not paying enough attention to his (yes, debatable) overall pov?

johnnysaint · December 12, 2011

Some of you guys seem not realise that there is NO prize money for World Champs & Gold medals. There is noteriety for a little while and sponsorship/advertising dollars. Not much money in the sailing world as very few medalists are known even in their own country. So where is all this mythical money coming from? One or two maybe in AC. Who has won a AC series that had previously won a Gold medal? Tell me a few sailors who make big money like those who get rich playing golf/tenis/soccer etc. You could probably count them on the thumbs of one hand.

If BA was into sport for the money he would make more just being a mediocre golfer or tennis player etc.

bcopper · December 12, 2011

It appears that with everyone apologizing to one and other and all the comments about "overreacting" to the situation, that ISAF wants to be rid of the issue a bit too quickly.

Had Vasilli Zbogar or another skipper pulled the same crap would the result have been the same ?

For some reason I don't think so. This is an outrageous incident that seems to be on, if not past the threshold of being whitewashed by IASF.

Despite the usual conspiracy theorists, I've got nothing against BA, nor anyone else in the fleet for that matter.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

Is it possible you are also not paying enough attention to (PH's) his (yes, debatable) overall pov?

Only so far as it illustrates defective logic in beginning with a conclusion which is itself contentious (that for ISAF, it's all about the money) and falsely deducing that therefore everybody else must be identically motivated. Even the assumption that anyone acts from a single simple motive is in general false.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

being whitewashed by IASF.

Isn't it a little early to conclude that? The action to date has been by the IJ, not by ISAF. RRS 69.1.c requires the IJ to report the incident to ISAF which presumably it has done. This is the start of a two-stage process. The PC (IJ in this case) deals with consequences as to the regatta. Action by the MNA or ISAF (ISAF in this case) is then governed by 69.2 and ISAF Regulation 19. IIRC the latter usually takes weeks or more to work through. It is not yet clear that there will not be further repercussions for BA, which under regulation 19 can include suspension of eligibility for major events including the Olympics.

bcopper · December 12, 2011

being whitewashed by IASF.

Isn't it a little early to conclude that? The action to date has been by the IJ, not by ISAF. RRS 69.1.c requires the IJ to report the incident to ISAF which presumably it has done. This is the start of a two-stage process. The PC (IJ in this case) deals with consequences as to the regatta. Action by the MNA or ISAF (ISAF in this case) is then governed by 69.2 and ISAF Regulation 19. IIRC the latter usually takes weeks or more to work through. It is not yet clear that there will not be further repercussions for BA, which under regulation 19 can include suspension of eligibility for major events including the Olympics.

I hope so - one of the articles stated it had no impact on his position in the Olympics, indicating the matter had been essentially concluded.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

I hope so - one of the articles stated it had no impact on his position in the Olympics, indicating the matter had been essentially concluded.

That would seem to be predicated on a misunderstanding of the process. As to what action, if any, ISAF will take, your guess is as good as mine.

Oneyoti · December 12, 2011

Facts found:

"The skipper grabbed and shook the boat driver, shouting 'You have no respect!' "

That is common assault.

Piss on Ainslie.

Piss on the Finn class for not booting him.

Piss on ISAF and piss on the Olympics.

All scum, all the time.

Grow up!!!

spectator · December 12, 2011

I'm in Perth and saw the incident. All I can say is that it was simply wrong and the UK sailing team has done an amazing job squashing the incident. I do know Ben met the UK film company prior to infraction hearing to fix the problem and to make it go away. I guess he succeeded in doing that very well and it was very smart in doing so. The joke going around was that he was offering 50,000 or his Aston Martin to make it go away (it was the boatyard joke, I have no idea what deal was made). The boys and coaches in the finn boatyard are totally not impress or happy about this whole incident, it make us look bad. Even worse, If it was anyone else in the class it would be instant expulsion, sent home and banned. All the other teams are fed up with the double standard and the narcissistic attitude that the UK team comes with to regatta's.

It's pretty funny hearing UK fans quickly and vehemently coming to Ben's defense, it makes sense that they would, the Uk fan base is very strong and has great pride however 99.9999999% were not here and did not see it. They are only regurgitating what they read in their own newspapers/blogs and I must say the tone is much different and softer than the reality seen here in Perth, shining the light on Ben compared intl. reports.

Please don't blame the Aussie's, they have nothing to do with this and they have been quite strong about keeping the race course clear of supports compared to most regatta's. Ok, the UK media boat may have been wrong but that still doesn't give you permission or the right to such overly aggressive physical actions, it's going above the written law. Where is the british pride and ethics, acknowledging that one of there sailors has crossed the line? And take the responsibility to properly punish him no matter the consequences but we know that will not happen to there greatest chance for a gold medal. Saying it was not an assault is like Bill Clinton saying BJ's don't count and it's not sex and he got away with it.

The UK team has done a full PR assault to make it sound much better than what really happened but actually everyone here competing was very shocked, surprised and saddened by the incident. Someone told me today "That the one with most gold, is golden". I guess we just saw that statement come true.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

Please don't blame the Aussie's, they have nothing to do with this and they have been quite strong about keeping the race course clear of supports compared to most regatta's.

Sorry but I don't buy that. My club ran a major worlds last year and coach and media boats simply weren't allowed on the course areas. No way, no how. Neither were safety boats unless they had a specific need to be there. The only RIBs routinely permitted on the course area were the umpire boats.

GybeSet · December 12, 2011

did the ISAF have worldwide television rights sold, and therefore an obligation for that ?

don't take this as I'm proposing camera boats should be close or hinder, on the contrary

spectator · December 12, 2011

Please don't blame the Aussie's, they have nothing to do with this and they have been quite strong about keeping the race course clear of supports compared to most regatta's.

Sorry but I don't buy that. My club ran a major worlds last year and coach and media boats simply weren't allowed on the course areas. No way, no how. Neither were safety boats unless they had a specific need to be there. The only RIBs routinely permitted on the course area were the umpire boats.

I think you need to read my post again, it agrees with what you're saying.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

^

The regatta organisers apparently allowed this media boat on the course, driven by (according to one article) a volunteer (local?) helm. Not sure how that squares with your assertion that the regatta organisers were as active as they might have been in keeping media boats off the course.

There are valid questions and trade-offs in terms of media coverage versus protection of the course areas but it is perfectly possible to have TV coverage without media boats on the course area. Starts and mark roundings can still be filmed, for example. The same applies in other sports. Formula 1 camera crews don't drive round the course while the race is in progress and soccer and rugby TV camera-men aren't found on the pitch.

NoStrings · December 12, 2011

Finn sailors are notorious for exploiting every wake, wave, and puff of breeze over 10kts (when Rule 42 gets tossed) to their advantage. If Ainslie was pissed about anything, its that the RIB dropped a wake favorable to his competition. Trust me, if he had been able to ride that sucker, he would have been pumping like a madman to stay on it. Any one of them would have done the same thing.

I spent a few weeks working the Gold Cup last summer here in SF/Richmond. With few exceptions, the entire fleet was composed of gentlemen who really could sail the hell out of those boats. We had a spectator fleet that roamed the course, and NO ONE bitched. Of course BA wasn't here last summer.

IMHO, you just don't get a free pass to pull this crap. He needs to get the axe for 2012.

SimonN · December 12, 2011

What Ben did was wrong. No 2 ways about it. Ben can get pretty wired. I have seen him destroy parts of his Laser in anger. However, I do not accept there ahs been double standards on this and that others would have been treated differently. I also know that the IJ took advice on the correct level of punishment from a few leading International Judges because they wanted to get it right.

Besides that, there are serious lessons to be learnt and ones that probably wouln't have been considered if Ben had not done what he did. that is in no way excusing him. As I said, what he did was wrong, but it will mean that the whole situation will be carefully looked at. I have been to too many international events when ribs on the course have caused problems but lessons don't seem to have been learnt. At the 1998 49er worlds, one of the boats was capsized by the downdraft of a helicopter carrying film crewwho were commisdioned to record the event . I found out 6 months later that the film crew and helicopter weren't informed that they had flown too low and caused a problem. I wondered what it would have taken before the chopper crew would have been told. Well, I think we now know!

The bottom line is that before Ben lost it, the rib crew screwed up big time. It is important that somebody spends some time understanding what is needed to ensure this doesn't happen again. Ultimately, the rib driver is most to blame. He was in control of his boat. There may be others to blame, be it the camera crew for trying to get him to drive in too close, or the race management for not giving a clear enough briefing or ISAF for not being clear in their initial instructions.

While Ben's behavior is totally unacceptable, it is also totally unacceptable that a rib on the course could have such a major impact on a race as to decide who wins and who comes second. If a competitor had taken it to the room, they would not have got redress and while Ben should have been sensible enough to know that it didn't really effect his championship, that very same thing could easily have made the difference between somebody qualifying for the Olympics or not.

SimonN · December 12, 2011

Finn sailors are notorious for exploiting every wake, wave, and puff of breeze over 10kts (when Rule 42 gets tossed) to their advantage. If Ainslie was pissed about anything, its that the RIB dropped a wake favorable to his competition. Trust me, if he had been able to ride that sucker, he would have been pumping like a madman to stay on it. Any one of them would have done the same thing.

I spent a few weeks working the Gold Cup last summer here in SF/Richmond. With few exceptions, the entire fleet was composed of gentlemen who really could sail the hell out of those boats. We had a spectator fleet that roamed the course, and NO ONE bitched. Of course BA wasn't here last summer.

IMHO, you just don't get a free pass to pull this crap. He needs to get the axe for 2012.

Get all the facts before sounding off. The thing that pissed Ben off was that the wake swamped his boat and he had no option of avoiding it (not that he should have needed to) The rib might as well have held Ben's boat back while pushing his competitor ahead.

This isn't excusing Ben's reaction, but you need to get the facts right.

NoStrings · December 12, 2011

Finn sailors are notorious for exploiting every wake, wave, and puff of breeze over 10kts (when Rule 42 gets tossed) to their advantage. If Ainslie was pissed about anything, its that the RIB dropped a wake favorable to his competition. Trust me, if he had been able to ride that sucker, he would have been pumping like a madman to stay on it. Any one of them would have done the same thing.

I spent a few weeks working the Gold Cup last summer here in SF/Richmond. With few exceptions, the entire fleet was composed of gentlemen who really could sail the hell out of those boats. We had a spectator fleet that roamed the course, and NO ONE bitched. Of course BA wasn't here last summer.

IMHO, you just don't get a free pass to pull this crap. He needs to get the axe for 2012.

Get all the facts before sounding off. The thing that pissed Ben off was that the wake swamped his boat and he had no option of avoiding it (not that he should have needed to) The rib might as well have held Ben's boat back while pushing his competitor ahead.

This isn't excusing Ben's reaction, but you need to get the facts right.

Bullshit. The idea that a rib could swamp any of the top 20 boats in the Finn fleet is fucking laughable. It was a goddamn excuse and nothing more.

not from this world · December 12, 2011

Is as simple as road rage, how is that handled in various countries?

Tony-F18 · December 12, 2011

it is also totally unacceptable that a rib on the course could have such a major impact on a race...

IMHO the RIB did not have a major impact on the race, Ben lost that race because he was slower then the 1st finisher.

The major impact came when BA stepped out of his Finn and started pushing the RIB driver around, who was just doing his job btw.

With sailing becoming more of a TV sport I imagine the pressure on camera crews getting the money shots is quite big as well.

As photographers say: "if you are not filling the frame, you are just not close enough".

There is a simple solution though that the ACWS have already found: a catamaran camera platform!

The modified Ex40 shoots along with 30kts with a wake not much bigger than a canoe.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

IMHO the RIB did not have a major impact on the race

I'll take the facts found by the IJ over your opinion and they found there was an adverse effect.

Beast Rabban · December 12, 2011

How has this become about media boats on the course? Sure that is also an issue just not this one. The only major sports where athletes get away with behavior like this are profoundly corrupt ones like cycling and boxing.

If this didn't warrant expulsion from the regatta and referral, what would?

shanghaisailor · December 12, 2011

I largely said my piece ealier (post 98)but come on guys - some of the stuff written over the last few pages is quite incredible even by SA standards.

Firstly I 100% agree that Ben Ainslie was wrong and I think from the statement that he has admitted and acknowledged that fact.

I agree with SimoN (and we don't always agree)that there is a wider issue here regarding the presence of media on the race course - what would NFL fans tink if a cameraman with a steadycam was wandering about near the goal line or soccer fans if a photographer parked himself on the edge of the penalty box during a corner in a world cup semi-final?

I won't go over old ground (post 98 of this thread) but I have had issues with media boats as a competitor, as race officer, umpire and also as a media person myself.

Media are there to report the event and should not interfere with the action IN ANY WAY AT ALL.

I have read on other sites comments from media people who state they have given up "the golden shot" because to move in and get it would interfere with the action, that's how it should be.

If I am going to cover an event I carry a 500mm lense with image stabalisation for that very reason. Media should, like good children be seen and not heard.

They are there to cover the event, they are NOT the event and should keep out of the way.

Ben Ainslie has been punished and I note that most of the calls on this thread calling for bans and so on come from the North American continent - what a surprise!

But he only one of the players in this little scenario. What Ben Ainslie did was react. If as reported his Finn was swamped of course he would be unhappy and NoStrings - you need to understand boats better, it doesn't have to be full to the top to impede process, in case you don't know water is heavy and Oneyoti I think you are the one who should grow up.

So what is going to happen or has happened to the RIB driver? Again using the soccer analogy, a retaliation to a bad tackle may result in a yellow card but does that mean the tackler gets away with it - unlikely.

Rather than RIB drivers just being volunteers perhaps there needs to be some sort of qualification and certificate in much the same way as a rescue boat driver has.

ISAF should also be looking at themselves. To use a world championships as proving ground for changing the media coverage as has been reported is irresponsible - you don't test things at this level of competition. Media need access i agree but responsible access.

And finally the marshalls and/or organisers should have made sure the media and their drivers were properly briefed and monitored/marshalled to avoid interference.

Once again - Ainslie was wrong to retaliate in this manner. But note the word - 'retaliate'. If the RIB had not been put in the position or been allowed to to be put in the postion where it impeded or was percieved that it impeded a competitor, the whole incident would not have happened.

A bit like the householder going to jail for punching the guy robbing his house.

Have a pop back at me if you like as i believe this is an important AND GROWING problem with sailing. I'll just go and get my flack jacket and tin hat on.

See you on the water (I'll be the one NOT getting in the way)

SS

~HHN92~ · December 12, 2011

Let's see BA pull that stunt off an AC72 into SF Bay.

He wil get punishment enough if he tries it there.

Ah, why ? do you watch Hockey games ? the motor boat driver was not punched inconscious with a concussion, isn't it ?

One does not do well when diving into the waters of SF Bay. It's cold, has strong currents, etc. He would most likely never make it to the media boat was my point, to be able to do anything like this incident.

Nothing to do with hockey.

He was lucky that there were no sharks around. IIRC Perth was where chase boats for each boat were used for the first time during the AC after several crew went overboard during the LVT and there was concern that they would become fish food.

Bottom line is this: while the media boat appears to have ventured into the racecourse and affected the competitors, BA should not have left his boat and boarded the media boat for any reason. Go by and give them the business, go to the RC and lodge a complaint, file for redress if you think you can, but do not board the boat and get physical with them. Especially since you are winning the regatta. Sure every point counts, but winning the battle but losing the war negates everything.

Once again, maybe a reason why no one has snapped him up yet.

not from this world · December 12, 2011

Finn sailors are notorious for exploiting every wake, wave, and puff of breeze over 10kts (when Rule 42 gets tossed) to their advantage. If Ainslie was pissed about anything, its that the RIB dropped a wake favorable to his competition. Trust me, if he had been able to ride that sucker, he would have been pumping like a madman to stay on it. Any one of them would have done the same thing.

I spent a few weeks working the Gold Cup last summer here in SF/Richmond. With few exceptions, the entire fleet was composed of gentlemen who really could sail the hell out of those boats. We had a spectator fleet that roamed the course, and NO ONE bitched. Of course BA wasn't here last summer.

IMHO, you just don't get a free pass to pull this crap. He needs to get the axe for 2012.

Get all the facts before sounding off. The thing that pissed Ben off was that the wake swamped his boat and he had no option of avoiding it (not that he should have needed to) The rib might as well have held Ben's boat back while pushing his competitor ahead.

This isn't excusing Ben's reaction, but you need to get the facts right.

Bullshit. The idea that a rib could swamp any of the top 20 boats in the Finn fleet is fucking laughable. It was a goddamn excuse and nothing more.

+1

t5e · December 12, 2011

have a look at this image - it shows how far away the boat was at the finish

Not sure how to make it bigger but it was shot by the helicopter and is on the internet as a video....

The RIB had no impact on the result of this race.......

This was after the last mark and on the way to the finish - the race was already lost.

http://freezone.iinet.net.au/channels/freezone/sport/perth-sailing/?player=video/10642

shows the video of a great race but he lost it - see at 23 minutes 28 seconds....

Sysfx · December 12, 2011

I'm in Perth and saw the incident. All I can say is that it was simply wrong and the UK sailing team has done an amazing job squashing the incident. I do know Ben met the UK film company prior to infraction hearing to fix the problem and to make it go away. I guess he succeeded in doing that very well and it was very smart in doing so. The joke going around was that he was offering 50,000 or his Aston Martin to make it go away (it was the boatyard joke, I have no idea what deal was made). The boys and coaches in the finn boatyard are totally not impress or happy about this whole incident, it make us look bad. Even worse, If it was anyone else in the class it would be instant expulsion, sent home and banned. All the other teams are fed up with the double standard and the narcissistic attitude that the UK team comes with to regatta's.

It's pretty funny hearing UK fans quickly and vehemently coming to Ben's defense, it makes sense that they would, the Uk fan base is very strong and has great pride however 99.9999999% were not here and did not see it. They are only regurgitating what they read in their own newspapers/blogs and I must say the tone is much different and softer than the reality seen here in Perth, shining the light on Ben compared intl. reports.

Please don't blame the Aussie's, they have nothing to do with this and they have been quite strong about keeping the race course clear of supports compared to most regatta's. Ok, the UK media boat may have been wrong but that still doesn't give you permission or the right to such overly aggressive physical actions, it's going above the written law. Where is the british pride and ethics, acknowledging that one of there sailors has crossed the line? And take the responsibility to properly punish him no matter the consequences but we know that will not happen to there greatest chance for a gold medal. Saying it was not an assault is like Bill Clinton saying BJ's don't count and it's not sex and he got away with it.

The UK team has done a full PR assault to make it sound much better than what really happened but actually everyone here competing was very shocked, surprised and saddened by the incident. Someone told me today "That the one with most gold, is golden". I guess we just saw that statement come true.

Thanks for the excellent post. The protagonist of those incidents should be banned for life. His Laser book actually teaches at least one illegal technique and somehow ISAF still worships him. The following is a fragment of what I wrote to ISAF in 1997 - and it was not the first time:

"...It is only from a British perspective that the battle for gold in the Laser class in Sidney was a highlight (of our sport). Ainslie was and remains an inferior person and athlete compared to Scheidt. He is very far from deserving a place close to names like Tabarly, Elvstrom, Knox Johnston, Stephens, Scheidt and other worldwide celebrities. He is a lot lower than Dame Ellen and does his best to remain as far from being a model athlete and a gentleman as possible. On the contrary, he tries to approach disloyalty, lack of fair play and other devious areas as much as possible, while avoiding plain disqualification. He definitely does not deserve to be raised to the level of Scheidt.

As I have already commented, when ISAF's website publishes texts with a regional perspective, the institution looses credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world."

No inteligence is required to know right now that ISAF's sea lawyers will find a cleverly rational reason to justify the absence of any relevant punishment to the (so called) athlete.

BalticBandit · December 12, 2011

Finn sailors are notorious for exploiting every wake, wave, and puff of breeze over 10kts (when Rule 42 gets tossed) to their advantage. If Ainslie was pissed about anything, its that the RIB dropped a wake favorable to his competition. Trust me, if he had been able to ride that sucker, he would have been pumping like a madman to stay on it. Any one of them would have done the same thing.

I spent a few weeks working the Gold Cup last summer here in SF/Richmond. With few exceptions, the entire fleet was composed of gentlemen who really could sail the hell out of those boats. We had a spectator fleet that roamed the course, and NO ONE bitched. Of course BA wasn't here last summer.

IMHO, you just don't get a free pass to pull this crap. He needs to get the axe for 2012.

Get all the facts before sounding off. The thing that pissed Ben off was that the wake swamped his boat and he had no option of avoiding it (not that he should have needed to) The rib might as well have held Ben's boat back while pushing his competitor ahead.

This isn't excusing Ben's reaction, but you need to get the facts right.

Bullshit. The idea that a rib could swamp any of the top 20 boats in the Finn fleet is fucking laughable. It was a goddamn excuse and nothing more.

+1 I suspect that "swamped" in this case means he took on some water - as from a bad wave. And he was pissed because he had already lost the race.

The problem in part though I think is that Rule 69 is too big a step. IE if you are 'sportsmanlike' but "cheat a little bit", you do penalty turns, but if you 'cheat' a little bit more, you are suddenly "unsportsmanlike", and can be suspended from sailboat racing for life.

I'm not suggesting that McEnroe like tactics should be accepted, but at the same time a more predictable set of "consequences" for various types of actions should be out there: IOW acting to intimidate a fellow competitor this way should be much more significant than going after a camera boat that does adversely impact you (Ainsley wasn't gonna captsize from THAT wake, but at the same '98 49er Worlds Simon mentions there was a competitor who's boat was cut almost in half by the prop of one of the "mark observer boats" so "affecting the race" is quite a real possibility)

So rather than a very binary:....Here's a predictable consequence - spins or a 20% penalty, but one step more and you are potentially DSQ for Life..

I suggest some rethink of the "next step up" should be discussed.

ro! · December 12, 2011

Hi again, genius..

It is a hypothetical posed, to illustrate the potential problem IF there had been, as Stuart A. curiously suggested in his article in The Independent, a business relationship.

Take your bizarre Pinot and TE delusions to bed yourself. Nobody cares your silly fantasies, they add nothing to the actual subjects at hand. Got any better material or are you a stuck record?

Yesterday when I said what if le had given 17 to SF you said..

.

LE giving the Cup Winner to SF is a hypothetical and not worth arguing about

and yet today you are coming up with these loony hypothetical posts which are only meant to put down BA, using stupid language he would never use...

Maybe you should start looking into unethical business relationships a bit closer to home before going to a world championship you know fuck all about..

emf...

The situation where EB dumped A5 onto Rita's court had nothing to do with anything that suggests any rule application bias. It has nothing to do with the hypothetical situation that might possibly exist in this completely unrelated thread, given the suggestion by Stuart A that the media boat's interests collude well with BA's success; and that despite BA having already lost the race by the time he took the final turn onto the reaching finish leg, BA still took violent exception to someone else, Postma who was already well ahead, being the alleged wake beneficiary from that boat instead of it benefitting him.

Eat your own f* if your are too ingenious to also see the big difference.

As I said..loony language on a hypothetical situation you know nothing about, based on speculation by some one else...fueled by who knows what...

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

One does not do well when diving into the waters of SF Bay. It's cold, has strong currents, etc.

Mate, he's a British dinghy sailor. We know how to deal with cold water and strong currents.

He was lucky that there were no sharks around.

It's basically a dinghy regatta. Capsizing is a possibility even for the world's best. One hopes there aren't too many hungry sharks.

Funnily enough though, I was watching the start of the VOR in Cape Town yesterday. Of course an extra media person can exit the boat at the last inshore mark and there was a comment that there were plenty of "jumpers" at Alicante but only one at Cape Town. Funny that. Not sure how keen I'd be to jump into the water there. Cue "Jaws" theme.

Tony-F18 · December 12, 2011

Haha, was thinking the exact same thing yesterday!

He was either really brave or really stupid.

theworm13 · December 12, 2011

Simple solution. If it was assault, then he should have charges from the police. No charges no assault. I can watch the video and see the pics, but simply boarding a boat (we don't know if asked, allowed, etc) is not enough. Holding a shirt and yelling may or may not be assault...I will not judge that in any way. The police should be involved.

If it is assault then that is brought up to the ISAF/GBR for a ruling.

If it is not, then all we have is the statements from the people involved. Those (including the RIB driver and camera man) did not indicate anything further should be done outside of the DSQ. The report/facts are avail and can be read by all.

I don't give a crap about BA, etc. But this is a "rule 69 by SA" hearing (lol) and frankly all stuff like this needs to be treated by the facts and nothing more. A rule 69 hearing will be held (has to), and the facts from the protest committee are all that can be brought in unless criminal actions are taken. SA forums can't.

So the decision is simple. Based on the facts found there are no grounds for further action. It was wrong, it was stupid, but it was penalized and done. IF the police find something, then it would be different.

SA readers can do all they want to say he "kicked the crap" out of XYZ...but frankly there is no evidence of anything more than yelling and perhaps some pushing. Right or wrong, thats not enough to get anything more than kicked ouot of that regatta.

johnnysaint · December 12, 2011

I'm in Perth and saw the incident. All I can say is that it was simply wrong and the UK sailing team has done an amazing job squashing the incident. I do know Ben met the UK film company prior to infraction hearing to fix the problem and to make it go away. I guess he succeeded in doing that very well and it was very smart in doing so. The joke going around was that he was offering 50,000 or his Aston Martin to make it go away (it was the boatyard joke, I have no idea what deal was made). The boys and coaches in the finn boatyard are totally not impress or happy about this whole incident, it make us look bad. Even worse, If it was anyone else in the class it would be instant expulsion, sent home and banned. All the other teams are fed up with the double standard and the narcissistic attitude that the UK team comes with to regatta's.

It's pretty funny hearing UK fans quickly and vehemently coming to Ben's defense, it makes sense that they would, the Uk fan base is very strong and has great pride however 99.9999999% were not here and did not see it. They are only regurgitating what they read in their own newspapers/blogs and I must say the tone is much different and softer than the reality seen here in Perth, shining the light on Ben compared intl. reports.

Please don't blame the Aussie's, they have nothing to do with this and they have been quite strong about keeping the race course clear of supports compared to most regatta's. Ok, the UK media boat may have been wrong but that still doesn't give you permission or the right to such overly aggressive physical actions, it's going above the written law. Where is the british pride and ethics, acknowledging that one of there sailors has crossed the line? And take the responsibility to properly punish him no matter the consequences but we know that will not happen to there greatest chance for a gold medal. Saying it was not an assault is like Bill Clinton saying BJ's don't count and it's not sex and he got away with it.

The UK team has done a full PR assault to make it sound much better than what really happened but actually everyone here competing was very shocked, surprised and saddened by the incident. Someone told me today "That the one with most gold, is golden". I guess we just saw that statement come true.

Interesting post...but... without knowing your identity and connection to any country's team (if any - and I doubt you travelled that far just to spectate) it could easily be interpreted as the post of someone who is anti British or just anti Ainslie, or even a female jilted by BA.

mr_fabulous · December 12, 2011

No one steps on my yacht without permission or they are toast and if they take any steps deemed criminal ie assault, they are guilty of piracy.....

Since the furniture store rarely leaves the dock, I would not worry...

bad sandwhich · December 12, 2011

Whaaatttt? a flippin good sportsman finally looses it with a dick with a camera - hold the fucking press everyone - this is NEWS!!!!

whats that? no one is holding the press? - they dropped the story for a storm in a teacup?

On The Hard · December 12, 2011

BA was wrong. Lost the regatta as a result. Seems like the punishment fit the crime to me. I think further punishment is overstepping based on what I've seen on the thread so far. I think the situation as it stands today is just fine.

~Stingray~~ · December 12, 2011

BA ~may~ not be out of the woods yet

--

Royal Yachting Association to consider action against Ben Ainslie

• RYA awaiting report from the Perth 2011 jury

The Royal Yachting Association are to consider whether to take any further action against treble Olympic gold medallist Ben Ainslie following his disqualification from the World Championships in Australia for a confrontation with a television boat.

On Saturday in Perth, Ainslie finished race nine but felt impeded by the media boat on the downwind leg. After the race, Ainslie swum over to the offending boat and hauled himself on board to remonstrate with the crew.

The 34-year-old was disqualified from races nine and 10 as a result, which meant he could no longer win a medal at the prestigious event. The RYA is now to digest the full reports into the incident – for which the Skandia Team GBR apologised, – before making any further comment.

A statement read: "The RYA is awaiting the report from the International Jury, of the Perth 2011 Worlds, in order to consider what further action, if any, to take. The RYA will follow its established procedures for responding to Rule 69 reports.

"The process involves the report being considered by the chairman of the RYA, the chairman of the RYA racing committee and the chairman of the RYA tribunal, who will decide whether the matter should be referred to the RYA tribunal for further action.

"If the matter is referred to the RYA tribunal, then it is likely that a hearing will take place as soon as is reasonably possible, following which the RYA tribunal has the authority to take such disciplinary action within its jurisdiction as it considers appropriate."

Finnfart · December 12, 2011

I'd disagree with your premise that if there is no police action, then there wasn't anything to merit police intervention.

In the fleet in my day, the GBR team was a very intimidating set. When things weren't going their way as in the 1978 situation I described earlier, there were some direct threats being thrown around.

Now add to the mix the economic interests of the video company, and I think you can see how both sides could want to quash this even if it was police worthy.

It is like domestic violence. Most of the time (sadly) the battered party tells the police the "tripped and hit their head".

Simple solution. If it was assault, then he should have charges from the police. No charges no assault. I can watch the video and see the pics, but simply boarding a boat (we don't know if asked, allowed, etc) is not enough. Holding a shirt and yelling may or may not be assault...I will not judge that in any way. The police should be involved.

If it is assault then that is brought up to the ISAF/GBR for a ruling.

If it is not, then all we have is the statements from the people involved. Those (including the RIB driver and camera man) did not indicate anything further should be done outside of the DSQ. The report/facts are avail and can be read by all.

I don't give a crap about BA, etc. But this is a "rule 69 by SA" hearing (lol) and frankly all stuff like this needs to be treated by the facts and nothing more. A rule 69 hearing will be held (has to), and the facts from the protest committee are all that can be brought in unless criminal actions are taken. SA forums can't.

So the decision is simple. Based on the facts found there are no grounds for further action. It was wrong, it was stupid, but it was penalized and done. IF the police find something, then it would be different.

SA readers can do all they want to say he "kicked the crap" out of XYZ...but frankly there is no evidence of anything more than yelling and perhaps some pushing. Right or wrong, thats not enough to get anything more than kicked ouot of that regatta.

bcopper · December 12, 2011

I'm in Perth and saw the incident. All I can say is that it was simply wrong and the UK sailing team has done an amazing job squashing the incident. I do know Ben met the UK film company prior to infraction hearing to fix the problem and to make it go away. I guess he succeeded in doing that very well and it was very smart in doing so. The joke going around was that he was offering 50,000 or his Aston Martin to make it go away (it was the boatyard joke, I have no idea what deal was made). The boys and coaches in the finn boatyard are totally not impress or happy about this whole incident, it make us look bad. Even worse, If it was anyone else in the class it would be instant expulsion, sent home and banned. All the other teams are fed up with the double standard and the narcissistic attitude that the UK team comes with to regatta's.

It's pretty funny hearing UK fans quickly and vehemently coming to Ben's defense, it makes sense that they would, the Uk fan base is very strong and has great pride however 99.9999999% were not here and did not see it. They are only regurgitating what they read in their own newspapers/blogs and I must say the tone is much different and softer than the reality seen here in Perth, shining the light on Ben compared intl. reports.

Please don't blame the Aussie's, they have nothing to do with this and they have been quite strong about keeping the race course clear of supports compared to most regatta's. Ok, the UK media boat may have been wrong but that still doesn't give you permission or the right to such overly aggressive physical actions, it's going above the written law. Where is the british pride and ethics, acknowledging that one of there sailors has crossed the line? And take the responsibility to properly punish him no matter the consequences but we know that will not happen to there greatest chance for a gold medal. Saying it was not an assault is like Bill Clinton saying BJ's don't count and it's not sex and he got away with it.

The UK team has done a full PR assault to make it sound much better than what really happened but actually everyone here competing was very shocked, surprised and saddened by the incident. Someone told me today "That the one with most gold, is golden". I guess we just saw that statement come true.

It's apparent from the actions and quotes fed to the press that their is a full court press on to whitewash this incident because of the individual involved. The film clip shows the facts.

You don't have to be in Perth to see the spin BA and the film company are putting out. The fact that they both apologized to each other may look nice on the surface, but it does nothing to negate the severity of the incident. The issue in addressing this incident is that it appears both parties agreed to water down the facts at the hearing. Once facts are found, they can't be changed, so that's where the injustice was done. The YRA statement about reviewing the incident is worth the paper it's written on. Do they even have a choice ? My guess is that he will get his hand slapped and that will be the extent of it.

Had any other skipper pull this bullshit they would have been drawn and quartered and likely banned for at least a year if not two.

Where do you draw the line when a full on altercation takes place, physical harm or injury ? Had the incident not been photographed and the race filmed, the spins would be endless. Regardless of the level of the event, this is still sailing and his actions should meet with harsh punishment.

dogwatch · December 12, 2011

Holding a shirt and yelling may or may not be assault...

It is certainly enough to fit the definition of common assault in British law and from what others have quoted, the same applies in Australian law. Do the police get involved in every such incident? Hell, no. Not even always if the victim wants it, let alone if they don't.

bcopper · December 12, 2011

Holding a shirt and yelling may or may not be assault...

It is certainly enough to fit the definition of common assault in British law and from what others have quoted, the same applies in Australian law. Do the police get involved in every such incident? Hell, no. Not even always if the victim wants it, let alone if they don't.

I think all the comments about the legal definition of assault and battery and police intervention are out of place. The OA, ISAF and YRA have clear provisions for dealing with these issues and should be left to do so. Let the attorneys chase ambulances around and the police catch crooks.

jhc · December 12, 2011

Assault? How about piracy? If this had happened near the horn of africa the us navy, fbi, cia would have likely shot and killed all the parties involved.

We can all be thankful this incident occurred in austrailia, where cooler heads prevail.

Several years of detainment, and water boarding, were avoided by the quick thinking authorities.

Give it a rest, there is really not much to this 'incident'.

That is why there is a rope around the boxing ring, to keep the fight from spreading out of the ring, protects the press from getting hit with a stray punch ...

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