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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
sarah0809

Artemis?

12,616 posts in this topic

First impressions of the cat's hulls and platform are that it looks heavier that Team NZ's first cat, NZL2, has low freeboard forward of the wingsail, and a lot of rocker in the hulls, looking to generate lift from their daggerboards.

I think your analysis might be mistake. Although it is hard to find pictures from exactly the right angle, i have been playing in photoshop and I have just about convinced myself that ETNZ has more rocker. It's hard to be sure because of 2 factors. First, there are the issues of the angle of the phots, plus the ETNZ boat is healing. Second, the ETNZ rocker is very unusual, having the concave sections in the bow and transom. This completely changes the way the rocker looks.

 

I suspect that the ETNZ rocker is about tacking and gybing. When they go 2 hulled, the extra bouyancy and the rocker profile will dramtically reduce the waterline and this will mean the boat will spin fast.On one hull, the extra weigh it has to carry (full weight of the boat) plus the rig loads will mean that the waterline will be full length. The issue is whether there is a penalty for the concave rocker but I bet the other design teams will be crunching numbers on this.

 

As for the weight, sorry, but I really don't know how you can say that from those photos, and I doubt there will be any actual difference in this respect. I suspect you are being fooled by the wrapping of the structure.

 

My initial impression is that the ETNZ boat is all functionality over looks while the Artemis boat looks very "Gucci". It's slick and has got some great detailing that's visible even in these pictures. We have no idea if it is the right shape, but I get the impression that it will set the standard in terms of detailing.

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why arrival at Pier 80???

 

Oakland Estuary---

Looks like the container depot near the base of the Bay Bridge just across from the way from the Alameda Artemis base.

Probably the closest official point of entry to Artemis' operations.

 

I think it was off loaded at the end of pier 80.

check the stack and structure at the stern of the cargo ship and compare to the two pics I posted.

post-34764-0-56003200-1345609215_thumb.jpg

post-34764-0-87694000-1345610042_thumb.jpg

post-34764-0-06904500-1345610124_thumb.jpg

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^ I stand corrected. I didn't think they'd offload at the Oracle base.

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First impressions of the cat's hulls and platform are that it looks heavier that Team NZ's first cat, NZL2, has low freeboard forward of the wingsail, and a lot of rocker in the hulls, looking to generate lift from their daggerboards.

I think your analysis might be mistake. Although it is hard to find pictures from exactly the right angle, i have been playing in photoshop and I have just about convinced myself that ETNZ has more rocker. It's hard to be sure because of 2 factors. First, there are the issues of the angle of the phots, plus the ETNZ boat is healing. Second, the ETNZ rocker is very unusual, having the concave sections in the bow and transom. This completely changes the way the rocker looks.

 

I suspect that the ETNZ rocker is about tacking and gybing. When they go 2 hulled, the extra bouyancy and the rocker profile will dramtically reduce the waterline and this will mean the boat will spin fast.On one hull, the extra weigh it has to carry (full weight of the boat) plus the rig loads will mean that the waterline will be full length. The issue is whether there is a penalty for the concave rocker but I bet the other design teams will be crunching numbers on this.

 

As for the weight, sorry, but I really don't know how you can say that from those photos, and I doubt there will be any actual difference in this respect. I suspect you are being fooled by the wrapping of the structure.

 

My initial impression is that the ETNZ boat is all functionality over looks while the Artemis boat looks very "Gucci". It's slick and has got some great detailing that's visible even in these pictures. We have no idea if it is the right shape, but I get the impression that it will set the standard in terms of detailing.

Increased rocker would help facilitate faster more efficient tacks in my opinion. Probably a design decision based on the speed of the boats and the course boundaries, confirmed by GD's comment about how many times they expected to be tacking on the defined course - they'res a number out there somewhere.

 

That was my first impression.

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Pretty cool. I dont know much but I reckon this one looks more sleek that ETNZ's. This is what I imagined a AC72 to look like. The way the hulls look on NZL2 esp the blunt aft ends. Yuck

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I'm with knarly34, looks like a 72' A-Cat. Hull forms are full and rectangular from midsection to stern and look good to work with the lift generated by the foils.

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This doesnt seem to have much spare volume in the bows, also looks like the front beam is further forward compared to NZilla.

Only counting two grinding pedestalls per hull, rest is hydraulic?

 

Does it have a name yet? Any suggestions? :)

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There's something not shown in these pictures regarding missing grinding pedistals...

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Spray rails look neat, but super draggy - not sure how they got through the brief. If they are there to help keep the bow up, I'd be saying it is too late by then!

 

Spray rails are NOT to keep the bow up, just to reduce wetted surface. Check Fischer comments on that.

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First impressions of the cat's hulls and platform are that it looks heavier that Team NZ's first cat, NZL2, has low freeboard forward of the wingsail, and a lot of rocker in the hulls, looking to generate lift from their daggerboards.

I think your analysis might be mistake. Although it is hard to find pictures from exactly the right angle, i have been playing in photoshop and I have just about convinced myself that ETNZ has more rocker. It's hard to be sure because of 2 factors. First, there are the issues of the angle of the phots, plus the ETNZ boat is healing. Second, the ETNZ rocker is very unusual, having the concave sections in the bow and transom. This completely changes the way the rocker looks.

 

I suspect that the ETNZ rocker is about tacking and gybing. When they go 2 hulled, the extra bouyancy and the rocker profile will dramtically reduce the waterline and this will mean the boat will spin fast.On one hull, the extra weigh it has to carry (full weight of the boat) plus the rig loads will mean that the waterline will be full length. The issue is whether there is a penalty for the concave rocker but I bet the other design teams will be crunching numbers on this.

 

As for the weight, sorry, but I really don't know how you can say that from those photos, and I doubt there will be any actual difference in this respect. I suspect you are being fooled by the wrapping of the structure.

 

My initial impression is that the ETNZ boat is all functionality over looks while the Artemis boat looks very "Gucci". It's slick and has got some great detailing that's visible even in these pictures. We have no idea if it is the right shape, but I get the impression that it will set the standard in terms of detailing.

 

Good analysis Simon. It's hard to tell but some of the shots of the Artemis boat look like some concave in the run aft, so it may not just be the kiwis that are trying that. Artemis looks like it has a lot less freeboard overall than the kiwis, particularly in the bow, and this may come back to bite Juan K on the arse. Given his reputation, the boat is surprisingly unsurprising.

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FYI, what you see as white in these pictures is protective plastic probably, look for these parts of the boat to be black later on.

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Interesting the position of the daggerboards, at the Waterline pointing inside the hull...lifting foils?? ;)

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Spray rails look neat, but super draggy - not sure how they got through the brief. If they are there to help keep the bow up, I'd be saying it is too late by then!

 

Spray rails are NOT to keep the bow up, just to reduce wetted surface. Check Fischer comments on that.

 

I was going to say this. Makes a lot of sense. Not only wetted surface for friction, but wetted surface with weight, pulling bows downward.

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A surprise to see this!

Did not expect to see non-US team launch in US.

 

I would say Artemis has considerably lower freeboard than TNZ, much lower coamings

 

Am I bad because the first thing I thought of when seeing it was this?

1991-farr-80-nzl20-racing-yacht--2.jpg

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Spray rails look neat, but super draggy - not sure how they got through the brief. If they are there to help keep the bow up, I'd be saying it is too late by then!

 

Spray rails are NOT to keep the bow up, just to reduce wetted surface. Check Fischer comments on that.

 

I was going to say this. Makes a lot of sense. Not only wetted surface for friction, but wetted surface with weight, pulling bows downward.

 

Search for "Martin Fischer Interview" and he'll explain like it is.

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Honestly, I thought of this... 029_il_moro_di_venezia.jpg

 

 

A surprise to see this!

Did not expect to see non-US team launch in US.

 

I would say Artemis has considerably lower freeboard than TNZ, much lower coamings

 

Am I bad because the first thing I thought of when seeing it was this?

1991-farr-80-nzl20-racing-yacht--2.jpg

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Beam forward geometry, with the sailplan, and foils, all forward. Relative to the 45s and TNZ. Shows a reliance on the foils for creating dynamic lift to keep the boat on fore and aft trim. Also, the foil forward will help to keep the rudders in the flow, as the boat will have more resistance to nose stands.

A radical departure from the accepted catamaran proportions. More in line with the newest generation of G class trimarans. (without the center hull) I would expect to see more aft wing rake than TNZ.

post-24046-0-30771200-1345651147.jpg

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Keep an eye out for the daggerboards. Remember you can tell if they are real or fake by noticing whether or not they are painted with the special mat finish paint. I know its true because I read it right here in the AC anarchy section.

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^ Good spot. Agreed, and there may be a beam connecting between the Y arms, similar to NZilla but may be positioned farther aft.

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In the fullness of time the wrapping around the rigging will be shown to be a mistake. Juan K really screwed up with the bubble wrap. It's also heavy. If they're at all serious about competing in this cup they will have to re-think that.

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Honestly, I thought of this... 029_il_moro_di_venezia.jpg

 

 

A surprise to see this!

Did not expect to see non-US team launch in US.

 

I would say Artemis has considerably lower freeboard than TNZ, much lower coamings

 

Am I bad because the first thing I thought of when seeing it was this?

1991-farr-80-nzl20-racing-yacht--2.jpg

 

I thought of this when I saw the first picture of AR's 72:

 

19p25c.jpg

 

eur7ex.jpg

 

Seriously though, AR's 72 is a beauty. Just kept saying "Wow" over and over. I don't care if its fast. It is simply beautiful. As others have said, what I expected a AC72 to look like.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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^^^

 

but just think of the therapeutic benefits of popping the bubbles while the others sail around you. JuanK seems to have thought of everything, including the mental health of the crew. :D

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From at the AC.com link,

--

 

"We saw the defender go by with their foiling boards today, so that was pretty interesting to see."

 

Hutchinson also said the Artemis Racing AC72 is in transit to San Francisco but it was too early to give an indication of a possible launch date.

 

--

 

Wonder if he took some pics? Photoshopped and everything

 

 

Photo shopping the foils is pretty easy, it's getting the "launch wave" just right that's tricky.

 

I have a reliable source that in the near future the ac 45s will all be switching to L foils and t foil rudders

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

artemisAC72_SF3.jpg

 

Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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its so you see out when using the head.

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the 4 white uprights, pedestals for the grinders?

 

just need to add handles?

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Does their compression gurder run strait through or split into a 'Y' shape like the one on New Zealand. I havnt been able to make it out :huh:

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looks nice and fresh . now get ready for every knowitall to have their analysis based off one photo splurge all other place...

 

good shrink wrap job.

p.s. nice work bob

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

 

 

Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

 

 

Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?

 

 

Ram attachments for the swinging boards

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

artemisAC72_SF3.jpg

 

Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

The lifting arm for the board?

 

Thick boards if the slot shape ^^ counts....

 

...which seem to go very 'diagonally' through the hulls , as per...

 

artemisAC72_SF4.jpg

 

Very sweet looking machine. Nice and clean - thanks to all those Rubles

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And apparently does not require the 'counter tension' when without the wing - a la ETNZ

 

(Beams are sexy - but matt, so clearly shopped!)

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I mentioned the GC ('Grand Central') looking beefy (yes, I realize it is wrapped) but also:

 

the GC forward of that under the prod may have more rods connected to it than Nzilla's does - anyone got a minute to compare if that's true?

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I suspect those are solid carbon rods (in an aero friendly shape) not PBO/etc etc. Added advantage of no compression post.

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I suspect those are solid carbon rods (in an aero friendly shape) not PBO/etc etc. Added advantage of no compression post.

 

Well, it's obviously solid carbon rod, as for DOgzilla and Nzilla.

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I mentioned the GC ('Grand Central') looking beefy (yes, I realize it is wrapped) but also:

 

the GC forward of that under the prod may have more rods connected to it than Nzilla's does - anyone got a minute to compare if that's true?

 

CC120718-088.jpg

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The lifting arm for the board?

 

Thick boards if the slot shape ^^ counts....

 

...which seem to go very 'diagonally' through the hulls , as per...

 

artemisAC72_SF4.jpg

 

Very sweet looking machine. Nice and clean - thanks to all those Rubles

 

 

Looks to me like the upper centerboard bearing can move around a lot. looks like a very large upper opening for the centerboards.

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Triangular pole - rather than round I reckon. Like a 'Park Lane' boom. Bowman's dream!

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That is one killer looking boat. Makes Nzilla look rather pedestrian: A work truck versus a sports car. But looks dont win races. Now things get interesting!

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Unfortunately the 'engine' for this sports car is still at the reconditioners after it blew up.....

 

Volvo_two_stroke_gets_dismantled.jpg

 

- that's pedestrian.

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Just realized the boat has no "gills"

 

Those aren't gills. They're vertical Hulas (HHulae). Only a NZ team can have them. If any other team had them it would be cheating, but since Kiwis can not cheat it isn't cheating if done by Kiwis.... :)

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Sure seems odd that the first pictures we see of this beast is of it being off loaded in SF. No Anarchists up in Sweden?

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

 

 

Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?

 

 

Ram attachments for the swinging boards

 

Is that pretty obvious? I know dick about boat design, just never payed attention to where ETNZ's 72 has theirs attached.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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Sure seems odd that the first pictures we see of this beast is of it being off loaded in SF. No Anarchists up in Sweden?

 

WetHog :ph34r:

 

Swedenpain - that's where she was assembled

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I guess that anyone who was let into the base in VLC wasn't in a position to take any pictures? It was probably outside on multiple occasions but no one was in the right place at the right time with a long enough lense.

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Just realized the boat has no "gills"

 

Looks to me like the cockpit walls just sort of end near the back, so maybe open backed arrangement.

They must have something effective for draining to meet the rule requirement for no water to be trapped in the hulls for more than a few seconds (can't remember the exact wording, but pretty sure it's in there).

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Will Terry still be #1 after this week?

 

Accrording to the comments during todays events , things are not as positive for TH as they once were.Time will tell :)

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the GC forward of that under the prod may have more rods connected to it than Nzilla's does
Only two more.

From the forward 'gc' straight out to the bows :wacko:

But then from the end of the prod out to the bows but further back and again from the same point across to the prod :huh:

ETNZ just has a couple of thin diagonal stays at prod height.

 

I'd say either ETNZ has grossly underspecced, Artemis has grossly overspecced or are doing something very different.

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

artemisAC72_SF3.jpg

 

Doesn't look like Juan K believes in L shaped boards, given the location of the exit hole for the daggerboards. How long till this boat is back in the shop getting major surgery on it's daggerboard slots?

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Ahh, I'd forgotten Juan Alphabet was designing for them, that explains a lot.

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Looks like Juan K is doing something similar to l’Hydroptère with the foils

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There's something not shown in these pictures regarding missing grinding pedistals...

In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

WetHog :ph34r:

Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?

Ram attachments for the swinging boards

 

Mmmm.... something strange... maybe attachments for a system to deliver torque from the grinding pedestal on a hull to the winches on the other? Or to move ballast water from the two hulls?

 

Let's see...

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Funny that nobody has noticed the lack of winches...

 

Ah ah... got it. D35 :D I thought that simple were not installed or visible...

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Funny that nobody has noticed the lack of winches...

 

Ah ah... got it. D35 :D I thought that simple were not installed or visible...

 

Ok, I'll ask...

 

Lack of? I see four - what do you consider the 'standard' number?

What has a D35 got to do with things?

julius-baer-sailing.jpg

Why be mysterious - don't we come here to share information?

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Funny that nobody has noticed the lack of winches...

What do you suppose those cylindrical thingies on deck are?

artemisAC72_SF3.jpg

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

 

Thanks for explaining your thinking. Could those 'attachment points' not just be for the 'cranes' (what is the correct expression for those poles?) for raising the boards? Given their position - that would be my guess :D

 

And if they wanted to add additional working space, they have the lovely stable 'V' formed by the two diagonals running from the step back to the aft corners to work with.

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And if they wanted to add additional working space, they have the lovely stable 'V' formed by the two diagonals running from the step back to the aft corners to work with.

Right, maybe the platform near the point of the V that on NZilla is a soft one, will be a solid one on AZilla.

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And if they wanted to add additional working space, they have the lovely stable 'V' formed by the two diagonals running from the step back to the aft corners to work with.

Right, maybe the platform near the point of the V that on NZilla is a soft one, will be a solid one on AZilla.

 

I'm dubious, but what they intend to do in lieu of additional winches is an interesting question. ETNZ had the two on the aft corners of that soft platform plus four on each hull?

prelaunchII.png

 

CC120809-176.jpg

 

 

Did you notice how the Artemis step appears to built up, presumably because the front beam is so flat.

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

artemisAC72_SF3.jpg

 

Red is a bad luck color: Liberty, Mariner, American Eagle..............................

 

Yeah Steinlager, that was a real unlucky boat!

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

 

Warmer, yes warmer.....

 

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

 

WTF?

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

 

Warmer, yes warmer.....

 

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

 

WTF?

 

He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

 

Warmer, yes warmer.....

 

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

 

WTF?

 

He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet

 

.....and you know this how?

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

 

 

 

Warmer, yes warmer.....

 

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

 

WTF?

 

He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet

 

The more work is done in the middle of the boat the less righting moment you have . Why keep your big boys off the rail , especially in Frisco ?

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

 

Warmer, yes warmer.....

 

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

 

WTF?

 

He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet

 

.....and you know this how?

 

the same way I knew the wing was trashed

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Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

 

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!

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Except that Alpina didn't post a 'pic' (or deleted it immediately). He just hinted.....pretty painful, but whatever floats your boats I guess.

 

Interesting enough in it's own right, why the party games?

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I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

 

- 4 winches are not enough

- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)

- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

 

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!

Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

 

Warmer, yes warmer.....

 

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

 

WTF?

 

He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet

 

I may have this wrong ......... it is attached but we cannot see it in these pics

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Well there's the 'pod-like' bulge under the ...'mis' of 'Artemis' as seen here - which would be on the centreline extending forward from the rear beam.....

artemisAC72_SF3.jpg

 

Then there's the raised step which could conceivably house something more....

ArtemisgAC72_SF.jpg

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Remember the vsail (I think) interview from awhile back, during the Newport acws with Steve

Clark? He said that one of the big teams has a grinding pod right on the back beam. We found our team :)

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i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )

.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.

 

Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

 

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!

 

etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .

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i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )

.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.

 

Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

 

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!

 

etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .

 

Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.

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In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

 

artemisAC72_SF3.jpg

 

Red is a bad luck color: Liberty, Mariner, American Eagle..............................

 

Yeah Steinlager, that was a real unlucky boat!

 

When did Steinlager get lucky in the AC?

 

And following the main topic at this point in here, Artemis has been participating in EBs super friends D35 circuit on lake Geneva. Or have in the recent past.

 

WetHog.

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95 & 2000.

 

But the reference is to Steinlager 2 the red & white round the world yacht that took out the race with line wins in all 7 legs, GD 2nd in Fisher & Paykel.

MSR_Steinlager08_05.jpg

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Just realized the boat has no "gills"

 

Those aren't gills. They're vertical Hulas (HHulae). Only a NZ team can have them. If any other team had them it would be cheating, but since Kiwis can not cheat it isn't cheating if done by Kiwis.... :)

 

maybe you will find a hula on artemis. considering it was his idea to start with

http://artemis-racing.americascup.com/team/management/tom-schnackenberg

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i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )

.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.

 

Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

 

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!

 

etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .

 

Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.

 

i can quarantee u there is hydraulics. the fact that those leaver arms are not carbon either means those loads must big . hint. see if you can get a close up of nz1's wing base

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i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )

.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.

 

Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

 

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!

 

etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .

 

Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.

 

i can quarantee u there is hydraulics. the fact that those leaver arms are not carbon either means those loads must big . hint. see if you can get a close up of nz1's wing base

 

Thanks but I'm not playing the hinting game today (and that's ^^ rather unintelligible anyway) - if you know something spit it out. If you've got something significant to show - then put up the photo yourself.

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i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )

.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.

 

Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

 

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!

 

etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .

 

Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.

 

i can quarantee u there is hydraulics. the fact that those leaver arms are not carbon either means those loads must big . hint. see if you can get a close up of nz1's wing base

 

Thanks but I'm not playing the hinting game today (and that's ^^ rather unintelligible anyway) - if you know something spit it out. If you've got something significant to show - then put up the photo yourself.

 

Nav Play nice.

I've seen the boat up close, was asked not to take pictures and did not.

There is lots of hydro, and the posted pics do not show the whole story.

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Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?

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Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?

 

 

It's not at all painful - well not ordinarily. If you have an interest in the AC and want more info than is generally available, then this is one of the places to look. But occasionally it seems a bit full of people who 'know more than they can say', and seem to enjoy gloating about it. I enjoy the exchange of info and knowledge - but not being asked to guess what someone else 'claims to know', though two ot three word hints like a children's party game.

 

If you where only asked not to take photos does that stop you explaining exactly what you saw and understood about the boat and it's systems? Does it stop you using the existing shots to point out features that others have inadvertently missed?

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Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?

 

 

It's not at all painful - well not ordinarily. If you have an interest in the AC and want more info than is generally available, then this is one of the places to look. But occasionally it seems a bit full of people who 'know more than they can say', and seem to enjoy gloating about it. I enjoy the exchange of info and knowledge - but not being asked to guess what someone else 'claims to know', though two ot three word hints like a children's party game.

 

If you where only asked not to take photos does that stop you explaining exactly what you saw and understood about the boat and it's systems? Does it stop you using the existing shots to point out features that others have inadvertently missed?

 

If you respect the wishes and intent of the teams you get invited back. A lot better than being a copy and paste expert.

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Tha actual question is, why post cryptic hints when you're not allowed to say anything? Keep 100% of your knowledge to yourself, you'll do the team that trusts you a much bigger favor.

If you are allowed to post things post them, no need for cryptic allusions then.

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Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?

 

 

It's not at all painful - well not ordinarily. If you have an interest in the AC and want more info than is generally available, then this is one of the places to look. But occasionally it seems a bit full of people who 'know more than they can say', and seem to enjoy gloating about it. I enjoy the exchange of info and knowledge - but not being asked to guess what someone else 'claims to know', though two ot three word hints like a children's party game.

 

If you where only asked not to take photos does that stop you explaining exactly what you saw and understood about the boat and it's systems? Does it stop you using the existing shots to point out features that others have inadvertently missed?

 

If you respect the wishes and intent of the teams you get invited back. A lot better than being a copy and paste expert.

That last part is a low blow. Nav is doing us a genuine favor with the effort he's putting in. That he does it with flair and good humor is just a big bonus on top.

 

There are all kinds of ways to contribute, few of them bad.

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