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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
sarah0809

Artemis?

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Best race yet! Artemis won the start and the first leg. Like was said before: get those foiling gybes down and man they will go. Seem to have good upwind off-foils performance against LR. On board cameras and audio was cool! This could get really good.....

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I'd love to see AR pull off the impossible but will be thrilled for them if they can even just win one race to the first mark. Can you imagine how jacked they'd be, in that moment?

 

were you thrilled? I sertinly was ! and they kept there heds ... didnt go out of bounds

 

Yay Artemis !

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It does show that the lead into Mark 1 can be undone by a bad gybe. ETNZ probably, on balance, won't screw that up. OR had better be sharp...

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It does show that the lead into Mark 1 can be undone by a bad gybe. ETNZ probably, on balance, won't screw that up. OR had better be sharp...

 

For all we know, OR has as much of a speed advantage over ETNZ as LR does over AR.

Or it could be the other way around.

 

All this proved is that if you have a faster boat, you can overtake on this course.

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Only 1:57 behind. The delta between LR and ETNZ is over 2-3 times that. Too bad AR doesn't have the time to reel them in. An additional 6 weeks, LR would be a distant 3rd in the LV.

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It does show that the lead into Mark 1 can be undone by a bad gybe. ETNZ probably, on balance, won't screw that up. OR had better be sharp...

 

For all we know, OR has as much of a speed advantage over ETNZ as LR does over AR.

Or it could be the other way around.

 

All this proved is that if you have a faster boat, you can overtake on this course.

 

You dont even nede a faster bote. LR coud have been slower DW than Artemis, and still passed them on the jybes, no?

 

Which means if Artemis can keep lerning as fast as they have sints thay lornched, we could be in for a REAL tussel

 

Todays race leves me beyond imprest with there progress. This was far in exess of anything I hoped for them.

 

 

LR are NOT bunnys. THere on a much flatter upper part of the curve,

and it looks to me as tho Artemis have a potenshelly faster bote, exept theyve run out of time to develop it.

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It does show that the lead into Mark 1 can be undone by a bad gybe. ETNZ probably, on balance, won't screw that up. OR had better be sharp...

 

For all we know, OR has as much of a speed advantage over ETNZ as LR does over AR.

Or it could be the other way around.

 

All this proved is that if you have a faster boat, you can overtake on this course.

 

That might be the case, however I don't think that if they have an advantage it'll be that pronounced... can't be discounted though - we haven't seen OR out there sailing hard around an entire course to see either way.

 

The point I was making was that it is possible to overtake on this course if someone doesn't do a good gybe or sail in the right place...

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Well done AR get those flybes going and we have a boat race!!

 

Until LR get Wing 2 fixed and mounted.

 

But Draper said it does not matter if they have Wing1 or Wing2. Anyone believe his quote that they were equal (even though they hoped to have Wing 2)?

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It does show that the lead into Mark 1 can be undone by a bad gybe. ETNZ probably, on balance, won't screw that up. OR had better be sharp...

 

For all we know, OR has as much of a speed advantage over ETNZ as LR does over AR.

Or it could be the other way around.

 

All this proved is that if you have a faster boat, you can overtake on this course.

 

You dont even nede a faster bote. LR coud have been slower DW than Artemis, and still passed them on the jybes, no?

 

Which means if Artemis can keep lerning as fast as they have sints thay lornched, we could be in for a REAL tussel

 

Todays race leves me beyond imprest with there progress. This was far in exess of anything I hoped for them.

 

 

LR are NOT bunnys. THere on a much flatter upper part of the curve,

and it looks to me as tho Artemis have a potenshelly faster bote, exept theyve run out of time to develop it.

 

Certainly they did well all things considered and perhaps with another few of months they would be competitive with LR.

But the problem for AR has always been doing things on time.

 

At the moment I think LR does actually have whiskers and floppy ears.

I only saw the start of today's race and it was pretty ordinary as has their sailing been in the rest of their races.

It seems to be that they have plateaued and are not making anything like the improvements you would expect them to.

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Well done AR get those flybes going and we have a boat race!!

 

Until LR get Wing 2 fixed and mounted.

 

But Draper said it does not matter if they have Wing1 or Wing2. Anyone believe his quote that they were equal (even though they hoped to have Wing 2)?

 

If they preferred wing 2, then it defies logic that they are equal.

However, I suspect what he was really saying in a roundabout sort of way is that the differences aren't huge.

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Well done AR get those flybes going and we have a boat race!!

 

Until LR get Wing 2 fixed and mounted.

 

But Draper said it does not matter if they have Wing1 or Wing2. Anyone believe his quote that they were equal (even though they hoped to have Wing 2)?

 

Probably more like, 'It does not matter if we have W1 or W2 we'll still beat them'.

 

More breeze and the margin will get much larger.

 

LR 1 - AR 0

 

Of more concern is CDs woeful starting....

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I'd love to see AR pull off the impossible but will be thrilled for them if they can even just win one race to the first mark. Can you imagine how jacked they'd be, in that moment?

were you thrilled? I sertinly was ! and they kept there heds ... didnt go out of bounds

 

Yay Artemis !

Yes, I actually was thrilled. Yelled "GOOO!" - it was really fun.

 

But that first flybe by LR (of many they pulled off) was just devastating. That move is a killer.

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Anyone still thinking AR is a hazard to themselves and others and should not be racing? Anyone want to continue questioning why they should be pissing away TT's money? I'm not talking about whether the other teams should or should not have mutually consented to the rule changes that made it easier for them to race. I'm just talking about whether they should be out there as things are, like many of you have over the past few weeks.

 

So fricking great for the guys on AR, AC34, and even the sport, to have AR perform as well as they are at this point. It's fun to root them on to their best abilities, even if I really still like LR, and even if I still want to see ETNZ face off against OR, and even if I want OR to win it all again.

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Remember Gaucho, we have only seen them in one race and the boat needs to hang together for a few more.

However, it is plainly obvious that they at least have enough control over the boat that this will not pose a hazard for them.

 

The outcome was always a forgone conclusion. However, given how long they have had in the boat, they certainly did not embarass themselves.

 

The one that should be most embarassed here is Chris Draper and LR in general, because they have had a huge amount of time on the water and still can't win a start and are not extracting anything like the maximum potential from their boat.

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^ Can't prove it but:

 

It's possible that if LR had performed last month against ETNZ like what they did today, a couple of those July races might have been a lot closer - whether or not LR had won the starts.

 

New foils and rudders, a well-tested and tuned W1 that stayed together even when pressed to 40 knots plus, some excellent boat handling both up and down, that was a very impressive performance by LR. I'm sure it'll have even ETNZ looking real closely at that performance.

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Remember Gaucho, we have only seen them in one race and the boat needs to hang together for a few more.

However, it is plainly obvious that they at least have enough control over the boat that this will not pose a hazard for them.

 

The outcome was always a forgone conclusion. However, given how long they have had in the boat, they certainly did not embarass themselves.

 

The one that should be most embarassed here is Chris Draper and LR in general, because they have had a huge amount of time on the water and still can't win a start and are not extracting anything like the maximum potential from their boat.

 

I do tend to think that AR's boat is better than LR's, though. Even if LR was getting more speed out of their boat on some of the straight downhill stuff, I think that will change (or would change if AR had enough time) as AR figure out how to optimize their boat. All along, I though it was entirely possible that AR could launch a boat that could, all other things being equal, just be better. Part of the reason I scoffed at the idea that it was being "disrespectful" of LR to think that AR could actually end up being competitive, as you thought it was being disrespectful. This particularly being the case against LR and their 1st Gen boat. I also believe that given enough time, AR's crew work could be better than LR. This will not likely be the case in the LV Semis, as they just won't have enough time. Even if AR should manage to win, it will be because they got enough better that their superior boat (AR likely has a significant edge going upwind, from what I can see) could offset what will still be better boat-handling form LR.

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Well done AR get those flybes going and we have a boat race!!

 

Until LR get Wing 2 fixed and mounted.

 

But Draper said it does not matter if they have Wing1 or Wing2. Anyone believe his quote that they were equal (even though they hoped to have Wing 2)?

 

Probably more like, 'It does not matter if we have W1 or W2 we'll still beat them'.

 

More breeze and the margin will get much larger.

 

LR 1 - AR 0

 

Of more concern is CDs woeful starting....

I disagree. More wind and AR will be faster. That boat is quick if the breeze is big enough to shift that weight. She has a big, powerful roach on that wing and plenty of power. But it needs a breeze to get her up out of the water.

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Remember Gaucho, we have only seen them in one race and the boat needs to hang together for a few more.

However, it is plainly obvious that they at least have enough control over the boat that this will not pose a hazard for them.

 

The outcome was always a forgone conclusion. However, given how long they have had in the boat, they certainly did not embarass themselves.

 

The one that should be most embarassed here is Chris Draper and LR in general, because they have had a huge amount of time on the water and still can't win a start and are not extracting anything like the maximum potential from their boat.

I thought LR did a way better job downwind today--very steady and regularly flybing. I think they are looking sharper than even a few weeks ago, consistent with their plan to peak by the LVC finals (i.e., they're introducing a bunch of changes in the next week or so). Now their peak may still not be anywhere close to ETNZ, but it shouldn't be overly surprising they are only now showing a marked improvement.

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Well done AR get those flybes going and we have a boat race!!

 

Until LR get Wing 2 fixed and mounted.

 

But Draper said it does not matter if they have Wing1 or Wing2. Anyone believe his quote that they were equal (even though they hoped to have Wing 2)?

 

Probably more like, 'It does not matter if we have W1 or W2 we'll still beat them'.

 

More breeze and the margin will get much larger.

 

LR 1 - AR 0

 

Of more concern is CDs woeful starting....

 

That is not what he was implying when he said it. He was intimating that the performance of both wings was similar, and said it did not matter. I thought it (what he was saying) bogus at the time he said it, and pointed it out on this forum, asking if anyone believed him. Of course Wing2 is going to be better, and of course it makes a difference.

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^

Yep, I said disrespectful and I stand by that.

We all know that an AC campaign is much more than launching a great boat. It is about time managment, boat handling skills and a whole shitload of other things that make a team competitive.

For these reasons, AR were NEVER going to be a competitive team.

 

They clearly have some great sailors and I agree that given how badly LR have progressed that in a few months they would likely be better than LR.

But the LVC semis started TODAY and the one thing you cannot buy in the AC is time.

 

The AR team have been let down by poor leadership and possibly IMO a designer with a little too much hubris for the team's own good.

 

JK reminds me very much of Bruce Farr. Too full of himself to work well with others and it was no coincidence IMO that NZ won the AC in their very first attempt after dumping Farr and going to a more collaborative method of boat design.

From the little I have seen of JK, he suffers from the same problems.

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Remember Gaucho, we have only seen them in one race and the boat needs to hang together for a few more.

However, it is plainly obvious that they at least have enough control over the boat that this will not pose a hazard for them.

 

The outcome was always a forgone conclusion. However, given how long they have had in the boat, they certainly did not embarass themselves.

 

The one that should be most embarassed here is Chris Draper and LR in general, because they have had a huge amount of time on the water and still can't win a start and are not extracting anything like the maximum potential from their boat.

I thought LR did a way better job downwind today--very steady and regularly flybing. I think they are looking sharper than even a few weeks ago, consistent with their plan to peak by the LVC finals (i.e., they're introducing a bunch of changes in the next week or so). Now their peak may still not be anywhere close to ETNZ, but it shouldn't be overly surprising they are only now showing a marked improvement.

 

I have only seen the start from todays race (I will watch the full coverage tonight), but it was embarassing for LR IMO.

AR have had their boat for about 2 or 3 weeks and still kicked their arses in the start.

I still maintain that ETNZ were significantly sandbagging in the LVC RRs.

If they weren't, they could be in a whole heap of trouble come AC time.

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Remember Gaucho, we have only seen them in one race and the boat needs to hang together for a few more.

However, it is plainly obvious that they at least have enough control over the boat that this will not pose a hazard for them.

 

The outcome was always a forgone conclusion. However, given how long they have had in the boat, they certainly did not embarass themselves.

 

The one that should be most embarassed here is Chris Draper and LR in general, because they have had a huge amount of time on the water and still can't win a start and are not extracting anything like the maximum potential from their boat.

 

I think you shoud be wurried (for TNZ) about Drapers dismal starting, not just embarrased on his behalf.

 

Semes to me: Best that cd happen (for TNZs prospeckts) wd be for

 

a ) Artemis to prevale in semis, or

b ) Almost prevale, and give CD such a skooling in starting so LR in turn give TNZ some skeers in the finals

 

TNZ probly dont need tight racing all the way round but thay DO need hard starting, STM

 

As an asyde, was anywun else astonished at how Artemis accelerated after the massive roundup when erly for the gun?

 

(and was anywun else pisst off that the time cowntdown display went on holliday for the final seconds?

 

I hope the camererwerk & editing is on an improvment curv parelel with Artemis sailing skils)

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^

Yep, I said disrespectful and I stand by that.

We all know that an AC campaign is much more than launching a great boat. It is about time managment, boat handling skills and a whole shitload of other things that make a team competitive.

For these reasons, AR were NEVER going to be a competitive team.

 

They clearly have some great sailors and I agree that given how badly LR have progressed that in a few months they would likely be better than LR.

But the LVC semis started TODAY and the one thing you cannot buy in the AC is time.

 

The AR team have been let down by poor leadership and possibly IMO a designer with a little too much hubris for the team's own good.

 

JK reminds me very much of Bruce Farr. Too full of himself to work well with others and it was no coincidence IMO that NZ won the AC in their very first attempt after dumping Farr and going to a more collaborative method of boat design.

From the little I have seen of JK, he suffers from the same problems.

 

But the thing is, AR is WAY closer to LR than LR is to ETNZ as far as performance and results, from what we saw today compared to the RRs (and I do still hold out that the RRs meant nothing, and may not really give us any valid information). It is much more likely and probable and believable that AR could win a race off LR than LR could win a race off ETNZ at this point. It is not being disrespectful of LR to say that. LR chose to only build one boat. They have not built nearly the crew of sailors that AR has put together. AR, with a true 2nd generation boat and incredibly good sailors always had the potential to actually compete with LR, and still do. Further, they have been working a lot harder than LR over the past month, and very notably how much more time on the water they have put in compared to LR over the past couple of weeks. You can be respectful of the abilities of an extremely talented and motivated underdog with great resources to outperform what others might expect of them without disrespecting their competition.

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Is there a Kiwi recipe for humble pie?

 

(Once again a disclaimer that I am not knocking Kiwis, just 'big mouths' who also just happen to be EnZedders)

 

That was an awesome video! Loick looked so happy too!

Anyone who continues to kick AR now has absolutely no passion for the sport.

 

LR, for all their time in the boat, looked very, very ordinary to me and my prediction is that barring breakdowns, AR will give LR the fright of their lives.

 

PS Anyone able to lend Jaysper a really HUGE pie dish?

 

I'd save that pie dish if I was you.

 

I think LR will make AR look just as ordinary as TNZ did to LR.

Yes AR can gybe on the foils, but they also have A LOT of bail outs and look very, very slow when doing so.

 

I'd be surprised if AR get to within 3 mins of LR at the finish. Some on this forum will consider that a win.

 

Really? You reckin? Is it conseivable AR could lern THAT fast?

 

OK, Im off to the kitshen, gotta baek myself sum o dat pie. Witch I will ete with gusto ! Never happyer to hav been rong.

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^

Yep, I said disrespectful and I stand by that.

We all know that an AC campaign is much more than launching a great boat. It is about time managment, boat handling skills and a whole shitload of other things that make a team competitive.

For these reasons, AR were NEVER going to be a competitive team.

 

They clearly have some great sailors and I agree that given how badly LR have progressed that in a few months they would likely be better than LR.

But the LVC semis started TODAY and the one thing you cannot buy in the AC is time.

 

The AR team have been let down by poor leadership and possibly IMO a designer with a little too much hubris for the team's own good.

 

JK reminds me very much of Bruce Farr. Too full of himself to work well with others and it was no coincidence IMO that NZ won the AC in their very first attempt after dumping Farr and going to a more collaborative method of boat design.

From the little I have seen of JK, he suffers from the same problems.

 

But the thing is, AR is WAY closer to LR than LR is to ETNZ as far as performance and results, from what we saw today compared to the RRs (and I do still hold out that the RRs meant nothing, and may not really give us any valid information). It is much more likely and probable and believable that AR could win a race off LR than LR could win a race off ETNZ at this point. It is not being disrespectful of LR to say that. LR chose to only build one boat. They have not built nearly the crew of sailors that AR has put together. AR, with a true 2nd generation boat and incredibly good sailors always had the potential to actually compete with LR, and still do. Further, they have been working a lot harder than LR over the past month, and very notably how much more time on the water they have put in compared to LR over the past couple of weeks. You can be respectful of the abilities of an extremely talented and motivated underdog with great resources to outperform what others might expect of them without disrespecting their competition.

 

And their bote semes likely to have an edje, posibly considerible, once tuned and saled to potenshul, no?

 

If theres a fewtewer for these botes, STM theres surely a fewtewer for this teme . .

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Wow - LR haters unite.

While i agree it is disappointing that LR aren't putting on a better show - they did sail quite well after the start.

 

I would say they were within a bees dick of not being able to sail at all with the wing tear. Getting it fixed in time for the race, and to go on and win was a good effort. In practice, they would have just gone home and lost a whole days sailing.

 

The sailors on board LR, individually, are as good as any other in this LVS.

Whether they are gelling as a crew is the question. And that may be the result that we are seeing. Sometimes, getting the best sailors together, doesn't result in the best crew.

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As an asyde, was anywun else astonished at how Artemis accelerated after the massive roundup when erly for the gun?

 

Yes, that caught my eye too - they accelerated very hard and LR never reached the same speeds that AR did on L1.

 

AR had some fast speeds on the last upwind too, L5. Thought I saw them touch 25 for a moment, while pointed higher than LR.

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Wow - LR haters unite.

While i agree it is disappointing that LR aren't putting on a better show - they did sail quite well after the start.

 

I would say they were within a bees dick of not being able to sail at all with the wing tear. Getting it fixed in time for the race, and to go on and win was a good effort. In practice, they would have just gone home and lost a whole days sailing.

 

The sailors on board LR, individually, are as good as any other in this LVS.

Whether they are gelling as a crew is the question. And that may be the result that we are seeing. Sometimes, getting the best sailors together, doesn't result in the best crew.

 

Who the hell is a LR hater? It is not a hater to root for them and believe that AR has a better crew, and that their 2nd Gen boat is likely better than LR's 1st Gen boat. It is also not hating to point out that LR has gotten their asses handed to them in the start of every race they have been in this summer. A lot of us really like LR. I am a big fan of Draper (starting from when he was with Korea), even if I point out that they have had poor starts, thus far. But I am rooting for AR, now, on the basis of seeing how well they can recover from their awful year, as well as because I really like a lot of their people. I love that LR is part of the AC, and applaud their efforts. But only one team can win a race, and you have to pick one team to root for over another.

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^

Yep, I said disrespectful and I stand by that.

We all know that an AC campaign is much more than launching a great boat. It is about time managment, boat handling skills and a whole shitload of other things that make a team competitive.

For these reasons, AR were NEVER going to be a competitive team.

 

They clearly have some great sailors and I agree that given how badly LR have progressed that in a few months they would likely be better than LR.

But the LVC semis started TODAY and the one thing you cannot buy in the AC is time.

 

The AR team have been let down by poor leadership and possibly IMO a designer with a little too much hubris for the team's own good.

 

JK reminds me very much of Bruce Farr. Too full of himself to work well with others and it was no coincidence IMO that NZ won the AC in their very first attempt after dumping Farr and going to a more collaborative method of boat design.

From the little I have seen of JK, he suffers from the same problems.

 

But the thing is, AR is WAY closer to LR than LR is to ETNZ as far as performance and results, from what we saw today compared to the RRs (and I do still hold out that the RRs meant nothing, and may not really give us any valid information). It is much more likely and probable and believable that AR could win a race off LR than LR could win a race off ETNZ at this point. It is not being disrespectful of LR to say that. LR chose to only build one boat. They have not built nearly the crew of sailors that AR has put together. AR, with a true 2nd generation boat and incredibly good sailors always had the potential to actually compete with LR, and still do. Further, they have been working a lot harder than LR over the past month, and very notably how much more time on the water they have put in compared to LR over the past couple of weeks. You can be respectful of the abilities of an extremely talented and motivated underdog with great resources to outperform what others might expect of them without disrespecting their competition.

 

I never said I disrespected AR's sailors. I do however disrespect their leader and I believe he is a big part of the reason that AR has performed so poorly.

However, what I DID say is that to believe AR could beat LR, ETNZ or OR would be disrespectful to those teams.

Simply, because AR was (and is) so far behind the development curve.

It looks as if they have come out of the shed with really quite a good boat (albeit overweight), but they are still too far behind to catch up.

 

LR are definitely weaker than ETNZ and OR and yet they would have to seriously fuck things up to lose to AR.

In 2 or 3 months time, things might be different.

But within the constraints of the LVC (i.e. starting TODAY), this is not reasonable to believe.

 

It would be a bit like Usain Bolt giving one of his competitors a 10m start in the 100m and still expecting to win.

He wouldn't because he is not that stupid and to do so would be pretty disrespectful.

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^

Yep, I said disrespectful and I stand by that.

We all know that an AC campaign is much more than launching a great boat. It is about time managment, boat handling skills and a whole shitload of other things that make a team competitive.

For these reasons, AR were NEVER going to be a competitive team.

 

They clearly have some great sailors and I agree that given how badly LR have progressed that in a few months they would likely be better than LR.

But the LVC semis started TODAY and the one thing you cannot buy in the AC is time.

 

The AR team have been let down by poor leadership and possibly IMO a designer with a little too much hubris for the team's own good.

 

JK reminds me very much of Bruce Farr. Too full of himself to work well with others and it was no coincidence IMO that NZ won the AC in their very first attempt after dumping Farr and going to a more collaborative method of boat design.

From the little I have seen of JK, he suffers from the same problems.

 

But the thing is, AR is WAY closer to LR than LR is to ETNZ as far as performance and results, from what we saw today compared to the RRs (and I do still hold out that the RRs meant nothing, and may not really give us any valid information). It is much more likely and probable and believable that AR could win a race off LR than LR could win a race off ETNZ at this point. It is not being disrespectful of LR to say that. LR chose to only build one boat. They have not built nearly the crew of sailors that AR has put together. AR, with a true 2nd generation boat and incredibly good sailors always had the potential to actually compete with LR, and still do. Further, they have been working a lot harder than LR over the past month, and very notably how much more time on the water they have put in compared to LR over the past couple of weeks. You can be respectful of the abilities of an extremely talented and motivated underdog with great resources to outperform what others might expect of them without disrespecting their competition.

 

And their bote semes likely to have an edje, posibly considerible, once tuned and saled to potenshul, no?

 

If theres a fewtewer for these botes, STM theres surely a fewtewer for this teme . .

 

There is no future for these boats, Russ & Dalts (the only two people who really get a say) have already said this.

However, if AR dump PC & (possibly) JK then the team has a pretty bright future IMO.

I hope TT sticks with the original plan and turns up to the next AC with his $$$.

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^

and, I was 'rooting' for AR. - Go Nath and Goobs! (and the rest of the team!).

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Very encouraging effort from AR to finish within 2mins of a polished LR performance (poor start excepted)

 

Suprisingly and despite post gybe round-ups AR covered slightly less distance over ground than LR, with a slightly higher top speed (40.56kts vs LR 39.19)

 

I hope AR had a debrief, then went straight back out for a couple of hours of foiling gybe practice, because nail that and they're well in the hunt.

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AR really doing well with upwind speed

 

the commentators said they overheard CD say he wanted 21kn and NO 19kn

 

but generally AR were getting 21kn and LR19!

 

great that the AR sailors finally have a boat they can sink their teeth into and get sailing

 

LR played a good low tactical race with their best crew work yet

 

hope someone can provide polars of the race from the data feed so we can see the upwind VMG of the boats and see how important the upwind speed is going to be for the rest of the races

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There is no future for these boats, Russ & Dalts (the only two people who really get a say) have already said this.

 

Seems as good a moment as any to point this out:

 

The vast majority of posters here, and AC journo's too, focus almost squint-eyed on the number of Challengers in AC34. For sure the economics-infatuated of many other stripes too. And use that one facet of AC34 to pronounce it a 'farce.'

 

We've seen a big change of tone on that front as racing has begun to get hot, as it obviously to some of us inevitably would change. But even when the article or interview does still begin with that one premise, as did Deaker's with RC, there is a careful IF when answering. As in, 'IF you wanted to attract a lot of entries even despite that nobody can afford even AC45 campaigns, then .... "

 

I don't think RC will have the last say on that IF question (Larry would) and even in GD's case he may face a different reality than one that makes racing AC46's that no Big Money cares about either any kind of attractive proposition.

 

There's a chance, yes small, that $B's will continue to fund this game for another cycle or two; and that a properly foiling AC72 will be their weapon of choice.

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For this spectator these AC72s are really exciting.

Something entirely new and much more spectacular.

My non-yachting friends are all saying WOW!

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From what we saw of their performance today, Art could possibly take a race or two off LR but they won't take enough to make it through to the LV finals. 2 mins or more than a kilometre and a half at the end of todays match may be considered close by some but IMO that's a towelling. But maybe that's what we have to get used to in this go-round.

 

We already know that ETNZs 2nd Gen boat, even before the latest round of mods, was a shitload better all round (performance, crew skills, tactical etc...) than LRs 1st Gen puppy so the final is all but determined. LRs only hope in the finals is breakdowns on the ETNZ boat but we have seen one of those already and it made SFA difference to the outcome so it would have to be a catastrophic structural failure which ain't likely on that well tested boat.

 

Apart from some interesting technology, this whole show is a giant mis-matched yawn until we get to the real AC Showdown.

 

How that will pan out is intriguing. Larry ain't going to let this thing out of his grasp without a big fight on and off the water. And then of course, there's the real winners in all of this.... the lawyers!

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NO was the man in that start, CD didnt get a show in, he was way to conservative.

It's hard to say if it was well-calculated (need to watch that again) but AR looked to be accelerating too soon to the line; but then (intentionally? Luck?) blocked LR out by luffing up between LR and the line, maybe because they were early and were forced too; then pulled the trigger and hit the line with nail-bitingly close to Zero on the countdown, at speed and accelerating like a Banshee.

 

It may be the best start we've seen - accidental or not.

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The only team worthy of toasting around here it seems is the one team that didn't take the risk to design their own boat. The one team who's sole purpose participating in AC34 is to help another team win.

 

But a team like AR that takes the risk, that try and stand on their own, get shit on. Constantly. Go figure.

 

WetHog

 

Ummm, a team that actually can't make the start of the AC is held in higher regard than one that can. Go figure.

LR gets constantly bagged for 'poor performance', yet AR has no performance to speak of. Go figure.

 

Looking forward to LR spanking AR come SFs, then we can close the book on this whole AR apologist rhetoric.

 

Aside from a pretty silver boat that they sail during the one no sail period in respect for Bart, don't sail when they should be on the course, when they are on the course they get severely pounded and have failed to push at the start for some reason... all they have is the bad attitude of a spoiled brat that threatens to sue, take their ball and go home coupled with an abundance of lip service about "the next set of mods".

 

You taking bets on if they'll ever beat ET in a legitimate race ?

 

 

Hell, they can't even beat the clock.

 

And AR can?

 

Apparently so.

post-24261-0-43942500-1375835619.jpg

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Really pleased to see AR get competitive.

 

Question on LRs wing tear, and the repair. Do they keep repair kit on the boat or on the tender? I'd be surpirsed if it was on the 72, but might be nice to have some, especially if it doesn't count towards platform weight. And did you hear Ken R? "it's packing tape. Or wait, I mean it could be a 3di product!" Ken is great, but you can count on him to recommend 3di or tpt for everything and and anything.

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NO was the man in that start, CD didnt get a show in, he was way to conservative.

It's hard to say if it was well-calculated (need to watch that again) but AR looked to be accelerating too soon to the line; but then (intentionally? Luck?) blocked LR out by luffing up between LR and the line, maybe because they were early and were forced too; then pulled the trigger and hit the line with nail-bitingly close to Zero on the countdown, at speed and accelerating like a Banshee.

 

It may be the best start we've seen - accidental or not.

I think it was clearly intentional, aggressive move, NO would have been pretty stuff in the position he was in, CD thought we got this, relaxed NO fired one across the bow, and the rest (of the start) is history, It was a great move, nothing less. The only thing that would have improved it was if they held off (forgetting about time on distance) and luffed CD up and past the pin just squeezing through themselves and turning a 6 second advantage at the mark to a 20 second (or more one)

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There is no future for these boats, Russ & Dalts (the only two people who really get a say) have already said this.

Seems as good a moment as any to point this out:

 

The vast majority of posters here, and AC journo's too, focus almost squint-eyed on the number of Challengers in AC34. For sure the economics-infatuated of many other stripes too. And use that one facet of AC34 to pronounce it a 'farce.'

 

We've seen a big change of tone on that front as racing has begun to get hot, as it obviously to some of us inevitably would change. But even when the article or interview does still begin with that one premise, as did Deaker's with RC, there is a careful IF when answering. As in, 'IF you wanted to attract a lot of entries even despite that nobody can afford even AC45 campaigns, then .... "

 

I don't think RC will have the last say on that IF question (Larry would) and even in GD's case he may face a different reality than one that makes racing AC46's that no Big Money cares about either any kind of attractive proposition.

 

There's a chance, yes small, that $B's will continue to fund this game for another cycle or two; and that a properly foiling AC72 will be their weapon of choice.

 

Since that is in the future, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

However, given that the two main protaganists have effectively called time on the AC72, I suggest that the evidence hangs in my favour.

We will see who is correct in 12 months.

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WHY WAS AR GYBING WAAAYYY BEFORE THE COURSE BOUNDARIES?????

 

Was their computer fucked up?

 

As long as the early gybing doesn't cause you to need an extra gybe to make it to the mark, then no problem I guess.

Maybe they figured that out and decided to play conservatively knowing it wouldn't cost them anything?

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Wow - LR haters unite.

While i agree it is disappointing that LR aren't putting on a better show - they did sail quite well after the start.

 

I would say they were within a bees dick of not being able to sail at all with the wing tear. Getting it fixed in time for the race, and to go on and win was a good effort. In practice, they would have just gone home and lost a whole days sailing.

 

The sailors on board LR, individually, are as good as any other in this LVS.

Whether they are gelling as a crew is the question. And that may be the result that we are seeing. Sometimes, getting the best sailors together, doesn't result in the best crew.

 

Agreed. I'm not sure what people on this forum want from LR.

They beat the competition by 2 mins and are 1 race up.

Good result.

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From an AR presser

--

 

 

LOUIS VUITTON CUP SEMI FINALS - RACE 1 AGAINST LUNA ROSSA CHALLENGE

Alameda, CA - Aug 6, 2013

 

Artemis Racing took to the waters of San Francisco Bay for their first race today. Winds were in the 15-18 knot range with a 0.2 knot flood tide making the wind limit for the day 21.2 knots. The racecourse, as determined by Americas Cup Race Management, was the longest option with seven legs.

 

Artemis Racing came out of the blocks with pace, winning the start and leading at the first mark with a top speed of 39 knots. Artemis Racing gybed first, out toward the middle of the Bay; Luna Rossas gybe followed almost immediately. The additional days of training for the Italians became evident as they completed their first of many foiling gybes. Luna Rossa demonstrated today the value of time on the water; the result is consistent communication and solid maneuvers. Artemis raced today with just eight days training in their foiling AC72 compared to Luna Rossa with over 70 days. However, at the end of todays race there was a two-minute separation, making it the closest race so far in the 2013 Louis Vuitton Cup.

 

The Artemis Racing team watched proudly as Big Blue crossed the finish line. Skipper Iain Percy summed up the day as nothing but a complete success. Two months ago our goal was to complete a race, we did that and then some. We sailed our best sailing day by quite a considerable margin today. Nathan absolutely nailed the start and we couldnt have asked for more.

 

Race 2 of the Semi Finals is scheduled for 1315 tomorrow.

 

TODAYS CREW LIST: Iain Percy (skipper/tactician), Nathan Outteridge (helmsman), Curtis Blewett (pit), Andy Fethers (pit), Chris Brittle (grinder), Julien Cressant (grinder), Craig Monk (grinder), Sean Clarkson (grinder), Thierry Fouchier (jib trim), Iain Jensen (wing trim), Rodney Ardern (wing assist).

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Wow - LR haters unite.

While i agree it is disappointing that LR aren't putting on a better show - they did sail quite well after the start.

 

I would say they were within a bees dick of not being able to sail at all with the wing tear. Getting it fixed in time for the race, and to go on and win was a good effort. In practice, they would have just gone home and lost a whole days sailing.

 

The sailors on board LR, individually, are as good as any other in this LVS.

Whether they are gelling as a crew is the question. And that may be the result that we are seeing. Sometimes, getting the best sailors together, doesn't result in the best crew.

 

Agreed. I'm not sure what people on this forum want from LR.

They beat the competition by 2 mins and are 1 race up.

Good result.

 

I don't see it as hating, but rather disappointed.

It is difficult to see a team such as LR who most people really like do so poorly relative to ETNZ

I realise that ETNZ are the challenger benchmark and have a more modern boat, but a lot of the issues with LR really do come down to crew work.

Personally, as a long time admirer of LR, I find it disappointing to say the least.

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1) Draper was up agenst a helm today who had almost nuthing to loese.

 

Sutch men are dayndjeruss

 

EDIT 1.5) LR were late and flusstered into the start box after last minnit ducked tape repares to wing

 

2) Drapers had a run of poor starts. All graet helms have sutch runs (incl JS and DB).

They hope not to have them when it counts.

NONE of his starts so far have counted.

 

Shoud thay make it to the LVC final, LRs starts will count. He needs to turn it around (as JS and DB alwaze do - thay bounts bak with a vendjince)

 

I think LR shoud tayk the risk of some hard, intentsiv startbox traning against ETNZ betwene now and then.

 

Draper and DB woud both have littel to lose & much to gane

 

 

(EDIT - Jasper - hav you sene the hole race yet, or still just the start? Shoudnt extrapollate.)

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I don't think its fair to criticise LR for teamwork/rate of development, given relatively similar comments that have been made around here about OR, and AR in the past ... maybe we just have to accept that ETNZ have set such a high benchmark for planning, organisation and management of their campaign that everyone else is looking "disappointing" by comparison? One of the things that impressed right from the start was how many days they racked up on the water, and many of those were LONG days too. Its only now that we're realising just what it took for all that to happen.

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NO was the man in that start, CD didnt get a show in, he was way to conservative. I

It's hard to say if it was well-calculated (need to watch that again) but AR looked to be accelerating too soon to the line; but then (intentionally? Luck?) blocked LR out by luffing up between LR and the line, maybe because they were early and were forced too; then pulled the trigger and hit the line with nail-bitingly close to Zero on the countdown, at speed and accelerating like a Banshee.

 

It may be the best start we've seen - accidental or not.

I think it was clearly intentional, aggressive move, NO would have been pretty stuff in the position he was in, CD thought we got this, relaxed NO fired one across the bow, and the rest (of the start) is history, It was a great move, nothing less. The only thing that would have improved it was if they held off (forgetting about time on distance) and luffed CD up and past the pin just squeezing through themselves and turning a 6 second advantage at the mark to a 20 second (or more one)

I agree. Looked like a call of AR being early, and the best call was to do max damage to competition. Really nice work really, and taking advantage of new class jitters when no one (especially LR it seems) is comfortable making aggressive positioning call. LR didn't have lots of options except to follow slow, it was either go high and maybe get luffed and stall, or go low and live in dirt.

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I don't think CD was particularly concerned about losing the start to AR: LR were quite confident they would run them down. Nursing that busted wing home must have been a big worry for them. No doubt their next-door neighbours will be lending a hand to repair both wings ready for tomorrow...

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I saw no 'nursing' of the wing, no hesitation to press the pedal to the metal, no inefficiency despite that strip of tape.

 

LR's next-door neighbors may commiserate and try to help; but that AR could come out with only 8 days on the boat and damn near outspeed LR's neighbors' design may be the larger group-worry over beers at the Java Hut this eve.

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Wow - LR haters unite.

While i agree it is disappointing that LR aren't putting on a better show - they did sail quite well after the start.

 

I would say they were within a bees dick of not being able to sail at all with the wing tear. Getting it fixed in time for the race, and to go on and win was a good effort. In practice, they would have just gone home and lost a whole days sailing.

 

The sailors on board LR, individually, are as good as any other in this LVS.

Whether they are gelling as a crew is the question. And that may be the result that we are seeing. Sometimes, getting the best sailors together, doesn't result in the best crew.

Agreed. I'm not sure what people on this forum want from LR.

They beat the competition by 2 mins and are 1 race up.

Good result.

Plus they looked good doing it - Prada - fashion - and all that.

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NO was the man in that start, CD didnt get a show in, he was way to conservative.

It's hard to say if it was well-calculated (need to watch that again) but AR looked to be accelerating too soon to the line; but then (intentionally? Luck?) blocked LR out by luffing up between LR and the line, maybe because they were early and were forced too; then pulled the trigger and hit the line with nail-bitingly close to Zero on the countdown, at speed and accelerating like a Banshee.

 

It may be the best start we've seen - accidental or not.

That was a sensational start, no two ways about it. No luck involved (other than CD being caught unawares)

 

NO saw an opportunity to jump in front of CD, and drop down to leeward of them and take control. He timed the acceleration to the start line to perfection.

 

That was a start by someone used to chucking a foiling moth around. To see him do it with an AC72 is impressive, ballsy and frankly it's about bloody time we saw some decent action in this series. A wake up call for all teams.

 

As as an ETNZ supporter, when I saw that start I found myself wishing ETNZ had chosen to race Artemis after all, to get the start practice they need. Maybe they will still get it if AR cn sort out their downwind performance.

 

Cheers, Ian

PS Been reading for weeks. Great to find a site with properly useful information.

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Wow - LR haters unite.

While i agree it is disappointing that LR aren't putting on a better show - they did sail quite well after the start.

 

I would say they were within a bees dick of not being able to sail at all with the wing tear. Getting it fixed in time for the race, and to go on and win was a good effort. In practice, they would have just gone home and lost a whole days sailing.

 

The sailors on board LR, individually, are as good as any other in this LVS.

Whether they are gelling as a crew is the question. And that may be the result that we are seeing. Sometimes, getting the best sailors together, doesn't result in the best crew.

 

Agreed. I'm not sure what people on this forum want from LR.

They beat the competition by 2 mins and are 1 race up.

Good result.

 

I don't see it as hating, but rather disappointed.

It is difficult to see a team such as LR who most people really like do so poorly relative to ETNZ

I realise that ETNZ are the challenger benchmark and have a more modern boat, but a lot of the issues with LR really do come down to crew work.

Personally, as a long time admirer of LR, I find it disappointing to say the least.

Not too much wrong with LR's crew work today, Jays. Except maybe being outgunned at the start.

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1) Draper was up agenst a helm today who had almost nuthing to loese.

 

Sutch men are dayndjeruss

 

EDIT 1.5) LR were late and flusstered into the start box after last minnit ducked tape repares to wing

 

2) Drapers had a run of poor starts. All graet helms have sutch runs (incl JS and DB).

They hope not to have them when it counts.

NONE of his starts so far have counted.

 

Shoud thay make it to the LVC final, LRs starts will count. He needs to turn it around (as JS and DB alwaze do - thay bounts bak with a vendjince)

 

I think LR shoud tayk the risk of some hard, intentsiv startbox traning against ETNZ betwene now and then.

 

Draper and DB woud both have littel to lose & much to gane

 

 

(EDIT - Jasper - hav you sene the hole race yet, or still just the start? Shoudnt extrapollate.)

+1

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And lets be honest - the starts dont mean shit.

 

These arent V5's beating to windward.

 

Its all about the maneuvers.

I think we can refine it even more.

 

It's all about wing trim.

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Anyone still thinking AR is a hazard to themselves and others and should not be racing? Anyone want to continue questioning why they should be pissing away TT's money? I'm not talking about whether the other teams should or should not have mutually consented to the rule changes that made it easier for them to race. I'm just talking about whether they should be out there as things are, like many of you have over the past few weeks.

 

So fricking great for the guys on AR, AC34, and even the sport, to have AR perform as well as they are at this point. It's fun to root them on to their best abilities, even if I really still like LR, and even if I still want to see ETNZ face off against OR, and even if I want OR to win it all again.

Yes. They certainly did better than was expected, but in what way was that a competitive race?

 

It is a good sign of how warped this AC is - people are overjoyed when one boat is sailing on the same leg as the other boat in the race.

 

I hate to dash your hopes, but apart from LR's bad second leg, they took 30s or so out of AR every leg. AR might get a bit closer, but essentially not a lot is going to change over the next four days.

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And lets be honest - the starts dont mean shit.

 

These arent V5's beating to windward.

 

Its all about the maneuvers.

I think we can refine it even more.

 

It's all about wing trim.

 

and foil deplyment tyming, and foil AoA reel-tyme trim... and ...

 

what I want to no is: can a slower upwind-VMG bote but slicker tacker (& witch can foil at a higher angel closereching) dele enuf dirt to kepe ahead for some or all of upwind leg?

 

OR myte no this.

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nd lets be honest - the starts dont mean shit.

 

These arent V5's beating to windward.

 

Its all about the maneuvers.

I don't agree that the starts are meaningless. In terms of overall impact on delta, perhaps. But not in terms of confidence.

In match racing, the start is key to get control and keep it. This rubs off on everyone's perception of the helm. Everyone still talks about how well a helm starts before they talk about how well he or she steers.

NO's confidence will have taken a real boost with that start.

Edit: sorry, stuffed up the quoting

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Anyone still thinking AR is a hazard to themselves and others and should not be racing? Anyone want to continue questioning why they should be pissing away TT's money? I'm not talking about whether the other teams should or should not have mutually consented to the rule changes that made it easier for them to race. I'm just talking about whether they should be out there as things are, like many of you have over the past few weeks.

 

So fricking great for the guys on AR, AC34, and even the sport, to have AR perform as well as they are at this point. It's fun to root them on to their best abilities, even if I really still like LR, and even if I still want to see ETNZ face off against OR, and even if I want OR to win it all again.

Yes. They certainly did better than was expected, but in what way was that a competitive race?

 

It is a good sign of how warped this AC is - people are overjoyed when one boat is sailing on the same leg as the other boat in the race.

 

I hate to dash your hopes, but apart from LR's bad second leg, they took 30s or so out of AR every leg. AR might get a bit closer, but essentially not a lot is going to change over the next four days.

 

If theyd raced a cupple of daze ago, AR wd have been DNF. Thats a steep improvmint; There a kwik study, in my book.

 

Thay must be saling better angels, from dist covered vs LR, considring huge wastidge in spd bilds. If they get to 50-50 foil gybes (big if) thay cd make hewdge inrodes

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And lets be honest - the starts dont mean shit.

 

These arent V5's beating to windward.

 

Its all about the maneuvers.

 

 

>And lets be honest - the starts dont mean shit.

 

These arent V5's beating to windward.

 

Its all about the maneuvers.

I don't agree that the starts are meaningless. In terms of overall impact on delta, perhaps. But not in terms of confidence.

In match racing, the start is key to get control and keep it. This rubs off on everyone's perception of the helm. Everyone still talks about how well a helm starts before they talk about how well he or she steers.

NO's confidence will have taken a real boost with that start.

 

 

+1

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There is no future for these boats, Russ & Dalts (the only two people who really get a say) have already said this.

Seems as good a moment as any to point this out:

 

The vast majority of posters here, and AC journo's too, focus almost squint-eyed on the number of Challengers in AC34. For sure the economics-infatuated of many other stripes too. And use that one facet of AC34 to pronounce it a 'farce.'

 

We've seen a big change of tone on that front as racing has begun to get hot, as it obviously to some of us inevitably would change. But even when the article or interview does still begin with that one premise, as did Deaker's with RC, there is a careful IF when answering. As in, 'IF you wanted to attract a lot of entries even despite that nobody can afford even AC45 campaigns, then .... "

 

I don't think RC will have the last say on that IF question (Larry would) and even in GD's case he may face a different reality than one that makes racing AC46's that no Big Money cares about either any kind of attractive proposition.

 

There's a chance, yes small, that $B's will continue to fund this game for another cycle or two; and that a properly foiling AC72 will be their weapon of choice.

 

 

Not gonna happen !

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Is there a Kiwi recipe for humble pie?

 

(Once again a disclaimer that I am not knocking Kiwis, just 'big mouths' who also just happen to be EnZedders)

 

That was an awesome video! Loick looked so happy too!

Anyone who continues to kick AR now has absolutely no passion for the sport.

 

LR, for all their time in the boat, looked very, very ordinary to me and my prediction is that barring breakdowns, AR will give LR the fright of their lives.

 

PS Anyone able to lend Jaysper a really HUGE pie dish?

 

I'd save that pie dish if I was you.

 

I think LR will make AR look just as ordinary as TNZ did to LR.

Yes AR can gybe on the foils, but they also have A LOT of bail outs and look very, very slow when doing so.

 

I'd be surprised if AR get to within 3 mins of LR at the finish. Some on this forum will consider that a win.

 

Really? You reckin? Is it conseivable AR could lern THAT fast?

 

OK, Im off to the kitshen, gotta baek myself sum o dat pie. Witch I will ete with gusto ! Never happyer to hav been rong.

Would you like cream or fries with that?

Well played!

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nd lets be honest - the starts dont mean shit.

 

These arent V5's beating to windward.

 

Its all about the maneuvers.

I don't agree that the starts are meaningless. In terms of overall impact on delta, perhaps. But not in terms of confidence.

In match racing, the start is key to get control and keep it. This rubs off on everyone's perception of the helm. Everyone still talks about how well a helm starts before they talk about how well he or she steers.

NO's confidence will have taken a real boost with that start.

Edit: sorry, stuffed up the quoting

 

N O doesn't need confidence, he sweats it! That start today was an indication of his innate ability and feel for all boats he sails. I have seen enough of him in 49ers and Moths to know that he is on top of the game whenever he sails. Probably the best helmsman driving in the current AC, he is hampered by the lack of development time in the Art boat and by poor program management. The mere thought of what he could do driving ETNZ with Goobs trimming is frightening... but that ain't their ride.

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There is no future for these boats, Russ & Dalts (the only two people who really get a say) have already said this.

Seems as good a moment as any to point this out:

 

The vast majority of posters here, and AC journo's too, focus almost squint-eyed on the number of Challengers in AC34. For sure the economics-infatuated of many other stripes too. And use that one facet of AC34 to pronounce it a 'farce.'

 

We've seen a big change of tone on that front as racing has begun to get hot, as it obviously to some of us inevitably would change. But even when the article or interview does still begin with that one premise, as did Deaker's with RC, there is a careful IF when answering. As in, 'IF you wanted to attract a lot of entries even despite that nobody can afford even AC45 campaigns, then .... "

 

I don't think RC will have the last say on that IF question (Larry would) and even in GD's case he may face a different reality than one that makes racing AC46's that no Big Money cares about either any kind of attractive proposition.

 

There's a chance, yes small, that $B's will continue to fund this game for another cycle or two; and that a properly foiling AC72 will be their weapon of choice.

 

Not gonna happen !

People that see them sail - want them to sail again. My 2¢

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Hell, they can't even beat the clock.

 

And AR can?

 

Apparently so.

How do you cook something like that? Would get stuck in your throat?

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There is no future for these boats, Russ & Dalts (the only two people who really get a say) have already said this.

Seems as good a moment as any to point this out:

 

The vast majority of posters here, and AC journo's too, focus almost squint-eyed on the number of Challengers in AC34. For sure the economics-infatuated of many other stripes too. And use that one facet of AC34 to pronounce it a 'farce.'

 

We've seen a big change of tone on that front as racing has begun to get hot, as it obviously to some of us inevitably would change. But even when the article or interview does still begin with that one premise, as did Deaker's with RC, there is a careful IF when answering. As in, 'IF you wanted to attract a lot of entries even despite that nobody can afford even AC45 campaigns, then .... "

 

I don't think RC will have the last say on that IF question (Larry would) and even in GD's case he may face a different reality than one that makes racing AC46's that no Big Money cares about either any kind of attractive proposition.

 

There's a chance, yes small, that $B's will continue to fund this game for another cycle or two; and that a properly foiling AC72 will be their weapon of choice.

 

Not gonna happen !

People that see them sail - want them to sail again. My 2¢

Enjoy them this time round but they are one-hit wonders and won't get another gig after this one.

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Anyone still thinking AR is a hazard to themselves and others and should not be racing? Anyone want to continue questioning why they should be pissing away TT's money? I'm not talking about whether the other teams should or should not have mutually consented to the rule changes that made it easier for them to race. I'm just talking about whether they should be out there as things are, like many of you have over the past few weeks.

 

So fricking great for the guys on AR, AC34, and even the sport, to have AR perform as well as they are at this point. It's fun to root them on to their best abilities, even if I really still like LR, and even if I still want to see ETNZ face off against OR, and even if I want OR to win it all again.

Yes. They certainly did better than was expected, but in what way was that a competitive race?

 

It is a good sign of how warped this AC is - people are overjoyed when one boat is sailing on the same leg as the other boat in the race.

 

I hate to dash your hopes, but apart from LR's bad second leg, they took 30s or so out of AR every leg. AR might get a bit closer, but essentially not a lot is going to change over the next four days.

Hey, why not race side by side in 5ksb's?

 

Take a look at these boats!

 

It's a development class - like no other in this planet's history. Scarcely something to complain about - at least in my book.

 

Love how AR took that first mark.

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1) Draper was up agenst a helm today who had almost nuthing to loese.

 

Sutch men are dayndjeruss

 

EDIT 1.5) LR were late and flusstered into the start box after last minnit ducked tape repares to wing

 

2) Drapers had a run of poor starts. All graet helms have sutch runs (incl JS and DB).

They hope not to have them when it counts.

NONE of his starts so far have counted.

 

Shoud thay make it to the LVC final, LRs starts will count. He needs to turn it around (as JS and DB alwaze do - thay bounts bak with a vendjince)

 

I think LR shoud tayk the risk of some hard, intentsiv startbox traning against ETNZ betwene now and then.

 

Draper and DB woud both have littel to lose & much to gane

 

 

(EDIT - Jasper - hav you sene the hole race yet, or still just the start? Shoudnt extrapollate.)

 

Ok Snaerk, just finished watching the race. Was definitely not extrapolating, only interpolating.

However, my point earlier was that I don't think most people who are critical of LR are haters, just disappointed with their performance this far..

 

With regards to THIS race, my observations are thus:

 

1. Obviously Draper needs to lift his game on the starts (duh!)

2. LR were greatly improved downwind, especially on their fybes.

3. LR didn't seem to be any better than previously upwind, with a number of shots showing them trawling the windward foil as they have done in all their races so far.

4. LR did however seem to lay the marks much better than previously.

5. Finally, one of the big problems (c.f ETNZ) has had so far is positioning the boat in the breeze. This race gave no indication of whether or not they have improved this aspect of their game.

 

On the whole, they look improved but I wonder how much of that is because of the opposition they raced against?

I wonder how good they will look when they next meet ETNZ.

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Seeing AR first over and accelerating was brilliant, for a brief moment I thought we were watching a truly unbelievable scenario unfold, and we still could. They could go home happy now but I would love to see them get at least on win.

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Hell, they can't even beat the clock.

 

And AR can?

 

Apparently so.

How do you cook something like that? Would get stuck in your throat?

More than a few here will have to figure that out.

 

Maybe we just tell them to open wide (we certainly know they're capable) and just jam it down their throats. Seem appropriate at this point.

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1) Draper was up agenst a helm today who had almost nuthing to loese.

 

Sutch men are dayndjeruss

 

EDIT 1.5) LR were late and flusstered into the start box after last minnit ducked tape repares to wing

 

2) Drapers had a run of poor starts. All graet helms have sutch runs (incl JS and DB).

They hope not to have them when it counts.

NONE of his starts so far have counted.

 

Shoud thay make it to the LVC final, LRs starts will count. He needs to turn it around (as JS and DB alwaze do - thay bounts bak with a vendjince)

 

I think LR shoud tayk the risk of some hard, intentsiv startbox traning against ETNZ betwene now and then.

 

Draper and DB woud both have littel to lose & much to gane

 

 

(EDIT - Jasper - hav you sene the hole race yet, or still just the start? Shoudnt extrapollate.)

 

Ok Snaerk, just finished watching the race. Was definitely not extrapolating, only interpolating.

However, my point earlier was that I don't think most people who are critical of LR are haters, just disappointed with their performance this far..

 

With regards to THIS race, my observations are thus:

 

1. Obviously Draper needs to lift his game on the starts (duh!)

2. LR were greatly improved downwind, especially on their fybes.

3. LR didn't seem to be any better than previously upwind, with a number of shots showing them trawling the windward foil as they have done in all their races so far.

4. LR did however seem to lay the marks much better than previously.

5. Finally, one of the big problems (c.f ETNZ) has had so far is positioning the boat in the breeze. This race gave no indication of whether or not they have improved this aspect of their game.

 

On the whole, they look improved but I wonder how much of that is because of the opposition they raced against?

I wonder how good they will look when they next meet ETNZ.

 

 

Do you think the defective boat should have retired before the race as a safety measure ?

 

I'm talking about LR of course :)

 

How embarrassing with over 100 days on the water , they are the ones with the mechanical issues :)

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1) Draper was up agenst a helm today who had almost nuthing to loese.

 

Sutch men are dayndjeruss

 

EDIT 1.5) LR were late and flusstered into the start box after last minnit ducked tape repares to wing

 

2) Drapers had a run of poor starts. All graet helms have sutch runs (incl JS and DB).

They hope not to have them when it counts.

NONE of his starts so far have counted.

 

Shoud thay make it to the LVC final, LRs starts will count. He needs to turn it around (as JS and DB alwaze do - thay bounts bak with a vendjince)

 

I think LR shoud tayk the risk of some hard, intentsiv startbox traning against ETNZ betwene now and then.

 

Draper and DB woud both have littel to lose & much to gane

 

 

(EDIT - Jasper - hav you sene the hole race yet, or still just the start? Shoudnt extrapollate.)

 

Ok Snaerk, just finished watching the race. Was definitely not extrapolating, only interpolating.

However, my point earlier was that I don't think most people who are critical of LR are haters, just disappointed with their performance this far..

 

With regards to THIS race, my observations are thus:

 

1. Obviously Draper needs to lift his game on the starts (duh!)

2. LR were greatly improved downwind, especially on their fybes.

3. LR didn't seem to be any better than previously upwind, with a number of shots showing them trawling the windward foil as they have done in all their races so far.

4. LR did however seem to lay the marks much better than previously.

5. Finally, one of the big problems (c.f ETNZ) has had so far is positioning the boat in the breeze. This race gave no indication of whether or not they have improved this aspect of their game.

 

On the whole, they look improved but I wonder how much of that is because of the opposition they raced against?

I wonder how good they will look when they next meet ETNZ.

 

 

Do you think the defective boat should have retired before the race as a safety measure ?

 

I'm talking about LR of course :)

 

How embarrassing with over 100 days on the water , they are the ones with the mechanical issues :)

 

Well, not very impressive is it? Much like ETNZ with their floppy jib.

Simply not acceptable for any AC team.

 

LR certainly seemed to button off the gas on the last 2 legs once they had it in the bag.

Also, they just gave an interview where they said their upwind performance was reduced due to the fact that they nursed the wing by not twisting it so much.

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1) Draper was up agenst a helm today who had almost nuthing to loese.

 

Sutch men are dayndjeruss

 

EDIT 1.5) LR were late and flusstered into the start box after last minnit ducked tape repares to wing

 

2) Drapers had a run of poor starts. All graet helms have sutch runs (incl JS and DB).

They hope not to have them when it counts.

NONE of his starts so far have counted.

 

Shoud thay make it to the LVC final, LRs starts will count. He needs to turn it around (as JS and DB alwaze do - thay bounts bak with a vendjince)

 

I think LR shoud tayk the risk of some hard, intentsiv startbox traning against ETNZ betwene now and then.

 

Draper and DB woud both have littel to lose & much to gane

 

 

(EDIT - Jasper - hav you sene the hole race yet, or still just the start? Shoudnt extrapollate.)

 

Ok Snaerk, just finished watching the race. Was definitely not extrapolating, only interpolating.

However, my point earlier was that I don't think most people who are critical of LR are haters, just disappointed with their performance this far..

 

With regards to THIS race, my observations are thus:

 

1. Obviously Draper needs to lift his game on the starts (duh!)

2. LR were greatly improved downwind, especially on their fybes.

3. LR didn't seem to be any better than previously upwind, with a number of shots showing them trawling the windward foil as they have done in all their races so far.

4. LR did however seem to lay the marks much better than previously.

5. Finally, one of the big problems (c.f ETNZ) has had so far is positioning the boat in the breeze. This race gave no indication of whether or not they have improved this aspect of their game.

 

On the whole, they look improved but I wonder how much of that is because of the opposition they raced against?

I wonder how good they will look when they next meet ETNZ.

 

 

Do you think the defective boat should have retired before the race as a safety measure ?

 

I'm talking about LR of course :)

 

How embarrassing with over 100 days on the water , they are the ones with the mechanical issues :)

Not nearly as embarrassing as only 8 days sailing. I'm talking about AR of course. :)

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