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sarah0809

Artemis?

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TT just confirmed that this is the first AR campaign - and not the last!

It was a bit more nuanced than that. More "hopes" than "will" and there were remarks about uncertainty on the format of AC35.

 

Btw I hope TT's back. With a different CEO.

 

Someone has remarked the sailors wouldn't want anything to do with another Artemis programme. If there's friction between the sailing team and TT as an owner, I haven't seen it. Cayard's absence at the closing conference seems significant.

 

Artemis acquitted themselves better in the semis than I expected. Racing was closer than the score-line indicates. Heart-warming stuff in this fractious "summer of racing". Well done Artemis.

 

Sorry but how was Cayard's absence significant? The LunaRossa camp doesn't have a CEO as such, although they have a General Manager. I didn't see him at the press conference either. Each person at the table was matched by their counterpart, with Perc filling both the skipper and tactician shoes to match Sirena and Bruni.

 

Just because the poor reportage on the front page tries to suggest a problem doesn't mean there is one.

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TT just confirmed that this is the first AR campaign - and not the last!

It was a bit more nuanced than that. More "hopes" than "will" and there were remarks about uncertainty on the format of AC35.

 

Btw I hope TT's back. With a different CEO.

 

Someone has remarked the sailors wouldn't want anything to do with another Artemis programme. If there's friction between the sailing team and TT as an owner, I haven't seen it. Cayard's absence at the closing conference seems significant.

 

Artemis acquitted themselves better in the semis than I expected. Racing was closer than the score-line indicates. Heart-warming stuff in this fractious "summer of racing". Well done Artemis.

 

Sorry but how was Cayard's absence significant? The LunaRossa camp doesn't have a CEO as such, although they have a General Manager. I didn't see him at the press conference either. Each person at the table was matched by their counterpart, with Perc filling both the skipper and tactician shoes to match Sirena and Bruni.

 

Just because the poor reportage on the front page tries to suggest a problem doesn't mean there is one.

 

Cayard has been Mr Invisible for some time

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wow, great to learn so much just by reading these posts!

So now I know that AR was a clown show, led by donkeys, even though they managed to pull together a respectable performance in a last mnute heroic effort involving all team members (albeit after changing design horses), even though their leaders were demoralizing, posturing buffoons who associate with the biggest cheaters sport has ever seen.

And they though they suffered from a lack of kiwis they still somehow managed to nearly catchup after some misfortunes and errors cost them a year of development in a brand new class of super hydrofoilers that were unheard of 2 years ago.

And that they (and the benighted kiwis who have the misfortune of working for the worlds biggest cheats) somehow got lucky and figured out how to jump the design tracks when a late rule interpretation invalidated a years worth of R&D.

Gosh, they are all just lucky to be alive, I guess, and allowed to sail on the same waters as the greatest sailors the world has ever known, golly.

You left something out: the Kiwis ETNZ who understood the AC34 Protocol and AC72 Class Rules corrected the MC interpretation and opened the doors to foiling which the two pitch-polers were too arrogant to consider. The result, as they say, is history...

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A 9-figure budget with the longest lead time of any team and the result is...a 4-0 loss to a team that will lose 4-0 to ETNZ. Great work fellas!

The sailing team that managed finishes within a couple of minutes of LR after just a couple of weeks in the boat were not responsible for Artemis' earlier mismanagement and design misdirections. It was a highly impressive performance in the circumstances. We are also talking about people who lost a friend on May 9th. That they managed to continue says something about human spirit. It's a pity, Clean, that you feel the need to shit on it at this moment.

Agreed, nobody learnt as fast as AR, the sailors and team members not involved in the decision making and politics gave it their all and in my opinion, did a phenomenal job in such a short space of time. I am sorry that the potential of the team and that boat are not going to be realised, which is not their fault. Hats off to a great sailing effort and a near vertical learning curve, you fellows did your absent friend proud.

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Sorry but how was Cayard's absence significant? The LunaRossa camp doesn't have a CEO as such, although they have a General Manager. I didn't see him at the press conference either. Each person at the table was matched by their counterpart, with Perc filling both the skipper and tactician shoes to match Sirena and Bruni.

Gianlorenzo Mercurio (LR General Manager) has a finance background and seems to be what some operations would call a Finance Director. Not Cayard's peer at all. The closest to that at LR would be Sirena, although he also has a sailing role.

 

For Cayard as team CEO to no-show at what appears to be the exit press conference for Artemis seems significant to me.

 

I'm however certainly not a party to Tempesta and Cayard's feud against Cayard, which I have criticised several times. I am just calling out what I see.

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A 9-figure budget with the longest lead time of any team and the result is...a 4-0 loss to a team that will lose 4-0 to ETNZ. Great work fellas!

The sailing team that managed finishes within a couple of minutes of LR after just a couple of weeks in the boat were not responsible for Artemis' earlier mismanagement and design misdirections. It was a highly impressive performance in the circumstances. We are also talking about people who lost a friend on May 9th. That they managed to continue says something about human spirit. It's a pity, Clean, that you feel the need to shit on it at this moment.

Agreed, nobody learnt as fast as AR, the sailors and team members not involved in the decision making and politics gave it their all and in my opinion, did a phenomenal job in such a short space of time. I am sorry that the potential of the team and that boat are not going to be realised, which is not their fault. Hats off to a great sailing effort and a near vertical learning curve, you fellows did your absent friend proud.

 

I think we can agree that bro Clean is a trifle myopic

 

I've been impressed by the Artemis achievements since they got back on the horse after the crash and Bart's tragic death. Clearly Cayard and Juan K did not play leadership roles in the comeback. Marginalized at best. Perhaps out the door.

 

OTOH, TT, Perce and NO showed themselves as a tight unit. I'd never heard any of the three speak at any length before. The wrap up media conference for the semis was the first time. An eye-opener. The trio never missed a beat. Comported themselves extremely well, especially Perce, and left us with the promise of great things to come.

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A 9-figure budget with the longest lead time of any team and the result is...a 4-0 loss to a team that will lose 4-0 to ETNZ. Great work fellas!

The sailing team that managed finishes within a couple of minutes of LR after just a couple of weeks in the boat were not responsible for Artemis' earlier mismanagement and design misdirections. It was a highly impressive performance in the circumstances. We are also talking about people who lost a friend on May 9th. That they managed to continue says something about human spirit. It's a pity, Clean, that you feel the need to shit on it at this moment.

Agreed, nobody learnt as fast as AR, the sailors and team members not involved in the decision making and politics gave it their all and in my opinion, did a phenomenal job in such a short space of time. I am sorry that the potential of the team and that boat are not going to be realised, which is not their fault. Hats off to a great sailing effort and a near vertical learning curve, you fellows did your absent friend proud.

 

It's easy to walk in the footsteps of others, especially when others are also giving you a hand.

You're either a follower or a leader. AR were actually the first in many aspects of this AC and more time than any other team.

 

Actually AR deltas got larger over the SFs.

 

BUT those guys are future AC sailors make no mistake i.e. In 5-10 years NO will be another DB or JS.

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^^ That is a really BIG one, if it really is what happened with the umpiring.

 

The twitter feed does suggest it. The sequence in data files would too.

 

Yes, a restart must surely have been a valid consideration.

 

I agree with bruno: Ellison trayded away that possibillity when he made a fowstian bargin with the TV networks. That reckwired sucking up to Joe sixpack.

 

The only poynts of contact betwene the djeneral public and ayleet sport are the most primitiv wunz, lyk speed and sentiment. Hi level stuff lyk rigger, stratedjeez and newonts wont get a look in.

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You and I must have been watching some different racing and campaign management.

 

A 9-figure budget with the longest lead time of any team and the result is...a 4-0 loss to a team that will lose 4-0 to ETNZ. Great work fellas!

 

Remember something: We first reported that the Artemis team was a complete shit show more than a year ago, after hearing the inside stories from sailors and shore team members who took a walk rather than stick around. It only got worse after that, and both the crash and their subsequent performance were predicted and predictable by people much smarter than us.

 

If you think they deserve a cookie for their 'great performance on the water', that's fine - I'm not the kind of person who thinks all the kids should win a medal for participating. This is supposed to be sport.

 

 

 

 

 

And they though they suffered from a lack of kiwis they still somehow managed to nearly catchup

Hey its your guys forum and site, so I am not going to join the herd trying to shut down someone with whom I disagree. But I can seperate out discrete elements and appraise them without bias,

- AR good come back from some misteps, as a team, clearly too late but they recognized where they were wrong and did something about it. Sure, their intial predilection for the same old faces was a mistake in a brave new world.

- Congrats are overdue to the ANZACOR crew for having a vision and following through in an effective manner, I just rewatched the LV4 and ot was a good race barring the new umpiring hiccup, which obviously should have invalidated the race. But that is TV.

- AR shore crew and sailing have obviously worked hard and did a great job with what they had in hand, very talented, that was a close race speed and boathandling wise, NO mistakenly tacked when he should have styed luffing but that is just a question of not enough sailing time practising that move in that boat.

- LR guys are really sailing well, whether that is enough to overcome the second hand kit they will racing with who knows.

 

now back to regularly scheduled ranting

I maintain that they had to try LP at the helm :the last race was a complete disaster (start ,penalties..) . Any news about Cayard ?

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It's easy to walk in the footsteps of others, especially when others are also giving you a hand.

You're either a follower or a leader. AR were actually the first in many aspects of this AC and more time than any other team.

 

Actually AR deltas got larger over the SFs.

 

BUT those guys are future AC sailors make no mistake i.e. In 5-10 years NO will be another DB or JS.

 

Actually, I think with the right leadership they will be a serious force in the next AC.

Could have been this time had they not hired Cayard and Juan K.

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You and I must have been watching some different racing and campaign management.

 

A 9-figure budget with the longest lead time of any team and the result is...a 4-0 loss to a team that will lose 4-0 to ETNZ. Great work fellas!

 

Remember something: We first reported that the Artemis team was a complete shit show more than a year ago, after hearing the inside stories from sailors and shore team members who took a walk rather than stick around. It only got worse after that, and both the crash and their subsequent performance were predicted and predictable by people much smarter than us.

 

If you think they deserve a cookie for their 'great performance on the water', that's fine - I'm not the kind of person who thinks all the kids should win a medal for participating. This is supposed to be sport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And they though they suffered from a lack of kiwis they still somehow managed to nearly catchup

 

Hey its your guys forum and site, so I am not going to join the herd trying to shut down someone with whom I disagree. But I can seperate out discrete elements and appraise them without bias,

- AR good come back from some misteps, as a team, clearly too late but they recognized where they were wrong and did something about it. Sure, their intial predilection for the same old faces was a mistake in a brave new world.

- Congrats are overdue to the ANZACOR crew for having a vision and following through in an effective manner, I just rewatched the LV4 and ot was a good race barring the new umpiring hiccup, which obviously should have invalidated the race. But that is TV.

- AR shore crew and sailing have obviously worked hard and did a great job with what they had in hand, very talented, that was a close race speed and boathandling wise, NO mistakenly tacked when he should have styed luffing but that is just a question of not enough sailing time practising that move in that boat.

- LR guys are really sailing well, whether that is enough to overcome the second hand kit they will racing with who knows.

now back to regularly scheduled ranting

I maintain that they had to try LP at the helm :the last race was a complete disaster (start ,penalties..) . Any news about Cayard ?

LP is a class act, love to see someone of my age on the helm racing one.

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I am with Clean - I just didn't see any close boat races. Sure the sailing and shore team did well if you look at a microcosm of the last couple of weeks, but the team didn't do well in this regatta. And you would have to set the bar pretty low to even say that the sailing team did well in that last race - it was a shocker (no anti-AR bias there - LR had some shockers against ET as well).

 

I was also disappointed with the tone of this press release from AR http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Louis-Vuitton-Cup-Semi-Finals-Race-4/113090. Statistically improved more than LR? What kind of victory are they trying to claim there? It does back up their whole PR spin, but seems a bit churlish not to just congratulate LR.

And I'm with both you and Clean. LR only did what they had to do to win, and for the deltas to be spun as a "moral" victory for a dysfunctional campaign is pandering to the simpletons. The only positive thing which can be salvaged from the poodle CoR clusterfuck is the introduction to the world of Percy as a very classy future AC campaign manager of some exciting promise. It feels like Percy was singularly responsible for holding the AR team together with the demonstrable incompetence and failure of Cayard as campaign CEO.

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^^^ Agreed, there are other plausible explanations for PC not also having a seat at that presser, than him being on the outs with anybody.

 

This line (from the same event, probably) even suggests he's good to go for next time:

 

--

 

"We didn't win, and certainly we were here to win," Cayard said. "We did take some satisfaction from overcoming some steep challenges. I'm proud of our team. We'll be back."

 

--

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Artemis-proud-of-efforts-despite-being-swept-4723430.php

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

 

Yep. Never underestimate the influence of a personal relationship. If Cayard has managed to get close to TT, and if TT believes Cayard still has the abilities to nail an effort but was broadsided by things outside his control, then I I could very easily see TT keeping Cayard. Who knows, maybe TT was infatuated with JK and was largely responsible for chosing him to design the boat.

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I was impressed with Cayard being the first on the team to speak directly about it after the accident. He had decent composure and a good grip on what perspective to put it in, when we were all still very worried about everyone's mindsets. Maybe his VOR and other experiences is what gave him that steel.

 

The intensity of the stress testing looked like an excellent effort too. Yes, it may have been a lesson learned too late, learned the hard way; but it was a lesson learned and well-executed nonetheless. I'm sure he came down hard on completing it, over the almost-certain pressure to get back onto the water ASAP. TT might well appreciate that leadership.

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

 

Yep. Never underestimate the influence of a personal relationship. If Cayard has managed to get close to TT, and if TT believes Cayard still has the abilities to nail an effort but was broadsided by things outside his control, then I I could very easily see TT keeping Cayard. Who knows, maybe TT was infatuated with JK and was largely responsible for chosing him to design the boat.

 

I sadly concede that you might be right with regards to personal relationships :(

With regards to Juan K, he reminds me waaay too much of Bruce Farr. Too arrogant to work effectively in the larger teams that are required for a campaign as big as the AC.

Perfect for the VOR cos the much lower design demands mean a single figure head can work, but not in the AC.

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

 

Yep. Never underestimate the influence of a personal relationship. If Cayard has managed to get close to TT, and if TT believes Cayard still has the abilities to nail an effort but was broadsided by things outside his control, then I I could very easily see TT keeping Cayard. Who knows, maybe TT was infatuated with JK and was largely responsible for chosing him to design the boat.

 

 

PC has been with TT for a number of years on the RC44 circuit, so I am not sure how fast TT would dump him.

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

 

Yep. Never underestimate the influence of a personal relationship. If Cayard has managed to get close to TT, and if TT believes Cayard still has the abilities to nail an effort but was broadsided by things outside his control, then I I could very easily see TT keeping Cayard. Who knows, maybe TT was infatuated with JK and was largely responsible for chosing him to design the boat.

 

I sadly concede that you might be right with regards to personal relationships :(

With regards to Juan K, he reminds me waaay too much of Bruce Farr. Too arrogant to work effectively in the larger teams that are required for a campaign as big as the AC.

Perfect for the VOR cos the much lower design demands mean a single figure head can work, but not in the AC.

 

Like I said, just because TT hired PC to be CEO, it does not mean TT had nothing to do with any of the big decisions. I could certainly see TT strongly favoring hiring JK to design the boat, and PC going along with it, as TT IS THE BOSS. I'm not saying that happened, but if it is the case where TT really liked the idea of JK designing the boat, whether it was his idea or PC's, he might feel like it would not be right to can PC for that reason, alone.

 

How much other than the design/construction component of AR's campaign was an outright failure? Aside from JK and his team, was the AR effort pretty sound? Hard to say. I still like the general idea of grabbing the ORMA boat to test the wing ahead of the boat launch window for the AC72 platforms, grabbing the Alameda facilities, hiring NO, IP, LP, et al. Time will tell, I believe, as we get more reports from the guys on the team.

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Like I said, just because TT hired PC to be CEO, it does not mean TT had nothing to do with any of the big decisions. I could certainly see TT strongly favoring hiring JK to design the boat, and PC going along with it, as TT IS THE BOSS. I'm not saying that happened, but if it is the case where TT really liked the idea of JK designing the boat, whether it was his idea or PC's, he might feel like it would not be right to can PC for that reason, alone.

 

How much other than the design/construction component of AR's campaign was an outright failure? Aside from JK and his team, was the AR effort pretty sound? Hard to say. I still like the general idea of grabbing the ORMA boat to test the wing ahead of the boat launch window for the AC72 platforms, grabbing the Alameda facilities, hiring NO, IP, LP, et al. Time will tell, I believe, as we get more reports from the guys on the team.

 

The leadership (Cayard) and the design crew (Juan K etc.) were the only ones at fault.

However, even if Cayard didn't pick JK you cannot absolve him of responsibility for the poor outcomes, because it is his job to keep them on track.

 

As for the rest of the team, I have always said that they are excellent sailors (hell, Cayard is too) and in fact they really did show some mettle in the months after the crash.

 

If Cayard is given the flick, this team could do almost anything at the next cup.

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Like I said, just because TT hired PC to be CEO, it does not mean TT had nothing to do with any of the big decisions. I could certainly see TT strongly favoring hiring JK to design the boat, and PC going along with it, as TT IS THE BOSS. I'm not saying that happened, but if it is the case where TT really liked the idea of JK designing the boat, whether it was his idea or PC's, he might feel like it would not be right to can PC for that reason, alone.

 

How much other than the design/construction component of AR's campaign was an outright failure? Aside from JK and his team, was the AR effort pretty sound? Hard to say. I still like the general idea of grabbing the ORMA boat to test the wing ahead of the boat launch window for the AC72 platforms, grabbing the Alameda facilities, hiring NO, IP, LP, et al. Time will tell, I believe, as we get more reports from the guys on the team.

 

The leadership (Cayard) and the design crew (Juan K etc.) were the only ones at fault.

However, even if Cayard didn't pick JK you cannot absolve him of responsibility for the poor outcomes, because it is his job to keep them on track.

 

As for the rest of the team, I have always said that they are excellent sailors (hell, Cayard is too) and in fact they really did show some mettle in the months after the crash.

 

If Cayard is given the flick, this team could do almost anything at the next cup.

 

Sailor feedback?

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Like I said, just because TT hired PC to be CEO, it does not mean TT had nothing to do with any of the big decisions. I could certainly see TT strongly favoring hiring JK to design the boat, and PC going along with it, as TT IS THE BOSS. I'm not saying that happened, but if it is the case where TT really liked the idea of JK designing the boat, whether it was his idea or PC's, he might feel like it would not be right to can PC for that reason, alone.

 

How much other than the design/construction component of AR's campaign was an outright failure? Aside from JK and his team, was the AR effort pretty sound? Hard to say. I still like the general idea of grabbing the ORMA boat to test the wing ahead of the boat launch window for the AC72 platforms, grabbing the Alameda facilities, hiring NO, IP, LP, et al. Time will tell, I believe, as we get more reports from the guys on the team.

 

The leadership (Cayard) and the design crew (Juan K etc.) were the only ones at fault.

However, even if Cayard didn't pick JK you cannot absolve him of responsibility for the poor outcomes, because it is his job to keep them on track.

 

As for the rest of the team, I have always said that they are excellent sailors (hell, Cayard is too) and in fact they really did show some mettle in the months after the crash.

 

If Cayard is given the flick, this team could do almost anything at the next cup.

 

Sailor feedback?

 

The leadership sets the tone of the team.

Even the Scuttlebutt article said that Cayard "was not a listener".

Team members understand this quickly and don't bother giving input any more.

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

 

Yep. Never underestimate the influence of a personal relationship. If Cayard has managed to get close to TT, and if TT believes Cayard still has the abilities to nail an effort but was broadsided by things outside his control, then I I could very easily see TT keeping Cayard. Who knows, maybe TT was infatuated with JK and was largely responsible for chosing him to design the boat.

 

 

PC has been with TT for a number of years on the RC44 circuit, so I am not sure how fast TT would dump him.

Actually the RC44 program and him have been linked only since the AC team (LV World Series) has been together.

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

 

Yep. Never underestimate the influence of a personal relationship. If Cayard has managed to get close to TT, and if TT believes Cayard still has the abilities to nail an effort but was broadsided by things outside his control, then I I could very easily see TT keeping Cayard. Who knows, maybe TT was infatuated with JK and was largely responsible for chosing him to design the boat.

 

 

PC has been with TT for a number of years on the RC44 circuit, so I am not sure how fast TT would dump him.

Actually the RC44 program and him have been linked only since the AC team (LV World Series) has been together.

 

Well, there was the Artemis TP52, then I met PC with the Artemis RC44 in Miami back in Jan. 2011 and they had been together before then, so there is a number of years in there.

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just watched the races again,

Congrats on your great races!!

Amazing for your time on water,

and classy to accept the lil hicup at the end..

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anyone know if AR is sticking around and sailing big blue or are they packing up now?

Team given a week leave after the semis, back to work next week for the pack up. IP in, PC out.

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anyone know if AR is sticking around and sailing big blue or are they packing up now?

Team given a week leave after the semis, back to work next week for the pack up. IP in, PC out.

what is the future of the boats? Just scraps ? What a pity...

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If true - a bit poignant. With the notable exception of Peyron - it's a true changing of the guard. Hutch and Cayard out (grey lions) Percy and Nathan in (youth).

 

Cayard brought this on himself in more ways than one. It's the boats that did it.

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If true - a bit poignant. With the notable exception of Peyron - it's a true changing of the guard. Hutch and Cayard out (grey lions) Percy and Nathan in (youth).

 

TH & LP are Silver Tigers in my book.

 

TH stood his ground that that Big Red wasn't safe.

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TH stood his ground that that Big Red wasn't safe.

 

Sorry but I don't think there is any evidence that was the case. He was sacked in favour of a younger, sharper helm.

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anyone know if AR is sticking around and sailing big blue or are they packing up now?

Team given a week leave after the semis, back to work next week for the pack up. IP in, PC out.

Has that been confirmed??

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TH stood his ground that that Big Red wasn't safe.

 

Sorry but I don't think there is any evidence that was the case. He was sacked in favour of a younger, sharper helm.

I have to agree. Also based on the ACWS verbal show he put on in Plymouth (I think), his character wouldn't have added much to the team.

 

Also I just don't like sailing with screamers.

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TH stood his ground that that Big Red wasn't safe.

 

Sorry but I don't think there is any evidence that was the case. He was sacked in favour of a younger, sharper helm.

 

I trust what I've heard. Just because someone has left a team doesn't mean is accurate to say they've been sacked. I no longer work with many organisations and I've never been "sacked."

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^

 

It isn't just that he left the team. His Seahorse column pretty much said, I've been sacked and Cayard's column, that he'd sacked him.

 

Also, you may have heard what you have heard but others here, who are convincingly close to Artemis team members, also said he just wasn't making it as an AC72 helm and had to go. I'm not going to go through precisely who said what and why I believe them but I know enough to conclude it had the ring of credibility.

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^Yeah, I forgot about his post-AR SH column and will confess to being somewhat defensive of mates who left Artemis.

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FWIW

I watched the dock in of what later turned out to be THs last sail with Artemis.

Some of us commented on the lack of comradeship with the other crew members that day. TH was of on the side really not doing much of anything. We thought there was probably a big argument or something to that effect.

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1 thing from my experience is the faster the boats the lessmroom for acrimony, guys need to be reading on the same page, cannot just do your job with your head down, hang in your clique, need to be working together and anticipating and helping out, and thereby sharing the stoke. If 1 guy is not there then the stoke is harder to find.

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TH stood his ground that that Big Red wasn't safe.

 

Sorry but I don't think there is any evidence that was the case. He was sacked in favour of a younger, sharper helm.

 

I trust what I've heard. Just because someone has left a team doesn't mean is accurate to say they've been sacked. I no longer work with many organisations and I've never been "sacked."

He definitely had the 'I've been sacked' demeanor after he was sacked. Although it turns out that maybe it was one of the best things that ever happened to him. What a lucky fucking break that was.

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Cayard definately wouldn't be picked up by another team but there is a really small chance that he could convince Tornqvist to let him stay on by admitting his mistakes, pointing big fingers at the design team and "recognising" that the design team structure that was set up was wrong and offering to do it for free and/or only get paid if they win (what else is he going to do for the next few years?).

 

Yep. Never underestimate the influence of a personal relationship. If Cayard has managed to get close to TT, and if TT believes Cayard still has the abilities to nail an effort but was broadsided by things outside his control, then I I could very easily see TT keeping Cayard. Who knows, maybe TT was infatuated with JK and was largely responsible for chosing him to design the boat.

 

 

PC has been with TT for a number of years on the RC44 circuit, so I am not sure how fast TT would dump him.

Actually the RC44 program and him have been linked only since the AC team (LV World Series) has been together.

 

Well, there was the Artemis TP52, then I met PC with the Artemis RC44 in Miami back in Jan. 2011 and they had been together before then, so there is a number of years in there.

Yes, which is the same amount of time as the AC team has been together...

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There are plenty of successful guys who expect excellence and can people when they don't get it. But then there are successful guys who have more patience and tend to judge people by how they see them work, rather than any given failure, and realize that you can't learn without failing. TT strikes me as more the second type.

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BalticBandit, on 01 Aug 2013 - 18:16, said:

Yes the Oracle captsize was slow - but it was not a foiling PP it was with immersed hulls, so the change in Center of resistance was much slower than if you are on a foil just bearing off for gybe and the rudder foil breaks off ( or the new leeward main foil breaks just as you unload off the old one) and you stuff the bow suddenly.

Steady on.

You were talking about "in a real pitch pole", and now all of a sudden you are requiring the boat to be up on foils and have a serious equipment failure?

 

 

Well, the experiment has been performed.

 

NZ have tripped over their nose while flying very high, and had a genuine spear-crash into the water at more than 40 knots.

 

The momentum was mostly bled away very quickly into the water, with no concerning rotations or trebuchet actions.

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I excused the Artemis PR bullshit after the LVC Semi-finals when they announced (to paraphrase)..."We may have lost but we improved more than LR did in the Semis" as some effort to save face...but having them tweet out that they were able to race without breaking down (in light of the issues LR and ETNZ have faced in the finals) is sad. They not only need new designers and engineers but new leadership (already mentioned) AND new PR people. The sailors are the only ones worth hanging onto it seems.

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Been away, so probably done, but what the hell - nostalgia trip...

big

1146771_10151570621426087_1216848467_o.j

 

1119796_10151552993176087_1023764013_o.j

 

1000295_10151552993211087_238263188_n.jp

 

1147074_10151551397836087_1582033609_o.j

 

1094725_10151552992441087_187748214_o.jp

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Lovely photos...

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another excellent interview by Michelle Slade with NO on the Artemis campaign and the upcoming 49er and Moth worlds

http://www.sailingworld.com/racing/americas-cup/catching-up-with-outteridge

 

most interesting yet shocking quote IMO:

Percy’s instructions as a tactian, his calls on time and distance were really good. We had no computer system on the boat because we didn’t have time to develop it. We had our instruments and computer systems that told us wind directions and boatspeeds but there was no number that said, “You are 5 seconds from the line.” I see Ray Davies often open up his little iPad and he’s got a display that’s telling him how much time he’s got to burn for a start. Percy’s doing this all on his own, and it was pretty good to hear him say, “You need to go in 10 seconds.”

 

You would have thought that they'd have already developed this for B1 :wacko:

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Did anyone ever get the final story on JuanK and whether he got flicked from the program or not?

You can't think the Artemis episode did much for his career trajectory, at least in the AC, whether he stayed or not.

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another excellent interview by Michelle Slade with NO on the Artemis campaign and the upcoming 49er and Moth worlds

http://www.sailingworld.com/racing/americas-cup/catching-up-with-outteridge

 

most interesting yet shocking quote IMO:

Percy’s instructions as a tactian, his calls on time and distance were really good. We had no computer system on the boat because we didn’t have time to develop it. We had our instruments and computer systems that told us wind directions and boatspeeds but there was no number that said, “You are 5 seconds from the line.” I see Ray Davies often open up his little iPad and he’s got a display that’s telling him how much time he’s got to burn for a start. Percy’s doing this all on his own, and it was pretty good to hear him say, “You need to go in 10 seconds.”

 

You would have thought that they'd have already developed this for B1 :wacko:

True, but shows just how damn good a sailor Percy is!

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Did anyone ever get the final story on JuanK and whether he got flicked from the program or not?

You can't think the Artemis episode did much for his career trajectory, at least in the AC, whether he stayed or not.

 

that's the most comprehensive account that I'm aware of:

http://www.vsail.info/2013/06/25/the-artemis-ac72-design-debacle-some-inside-information/

 

how much of that is actually true? Who knows...

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another excellent interview by Michelle Slade with NO on the Artemis campaign and the upcoming 49er and Moth worlds

http://www.sailingworld.com/racing/americas-cup/catching-up-with-outteridge

 

most interesting yet shocking quote IMO:

Percy’s instructions as a tactian, his calls on time and distance were really good. We had no computer system on the boat because we didn’t have time to develop it. We had our instruments and computer systems that told us wind directions and boatspeeds but there was no number that said, “You are 5 seconds from the line.” I see Ray Davies often open up his little iPad and he’s got a display that’s telling him how much time he’s got to burn for a start. Percy’s doing this all on his own, and it was pretty good to hear him say, “You need to go in 10 seconds.”

 

You would have thought that they'd have already developed this for B1 :wacko:

 

$200M spent but no prestart package? Incredible.

 

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Did anyone ever get the final story on JuanK and whether he got flicked from the program or not?

You can't think the Artemis episode did much for his career trajectory, at least in the AC, whether he stayed or not.

 

Reliable sources, one first hand say both JK and PC were given the boot.

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NO had an interesting comment on tv yesterday about how much he learned from watching the coverage, that in the moment you are intensely focused on your job and hard to see it all, might be a plus for a skipper non-helm. Add the Percy influence and it would help him getting up to speed. Usually the designer delivers polars, if that never happened or they are non-meaningful then it would have robbed the computer system of base data, and if the designer is out then he cannot help refine the programs.

 

Yes, AR was mostly all wrong fom the start by design, hard not to fault the leader(s). But I do not think that they were ever ahead of NZ or LR as they got their designs from the firm with the most familiarity with the new class. That they were working with non multi guys on hull, foils, and rig is kinda a sign of something. May and Deveaux come up looking good for thier salvage job, be interesting to hear the other side(s).

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Did anyone ever get the final story on JuanK and whether he got flicked from the program or not?

You can't think the Artemis episode did much for his career trajectory, at least in the AC, whether he stayed or not.

 

Reliable sources, one first hand say both JK and PC were given the boot.

Thanks, glad to have your input on this.

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Made-for-TV America’s Cup Imperils Sailors Pursuing Speed

 

On the morning of May 9, Andrew Simpson reported to work at a former seaplane base in Alameda, California, for his job trying to win the America’s Cup..............

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-12/made-for-tv-america-s-cup-imperils-sailors-pursuing-speed.html

post-33465-0-89142600-1378981757_thumb.jpg

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From the JK thread

 

Percy Taking Helm of Artemis After America’s Cup Elimination

By Aaron Kuriloff September 12, 2013

Two-time Olympic gold medalist Iain Percy will take over the lead of the Artemis Racing America’s Cup team as it plans for the next edition of the 162-year-old regatta, team owner Torbjorn Tornqvist said.

 

Percy, who led the on-water crew as skipper during this year’s Cup campaign, will take the title of team manager and succeed Paul Cayard, the team’s chief executive officer, after the current Cup ends, Tornqvist said today in a telephone interview from Geneva.

 

 

more:

http://www.businessw...cup-elimination

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Congrats for him!

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“Iain is one of those people who never seeks leadership, but people ask him for it and that’s very unique,” Tornqvist said. “Iain has that charisma and that personality -- he earns it somehow.”

 

What an enormous compliment for Iain Percy. Very well deserved.

I very much look forward to seeing them back for the next Cup.

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“Iain is one of those people who never seeks leadership, but people ask him for it and that’s very unique,” Tornqvist said. “Iain has that charisma and that personality -- he earns it somehow.”

 

What an enormous compliment for Iain Percy. Very well deserved.

I very much look forward to seeing them back for the next Cup.

Bugger...UK team could have used a man like IP.

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^

 

My reading of this is that IP is far from convinced BAR can raise the £££ for AC35.

 

Which is unsurprising but not cheerful.

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^

 

My reading of this is that IP is far from convinced BAR can raise the £££ for AC35.

 

Which is unsurprising but not cheerful.

My reading of this is that IP has a guaranteed job and pay cheque and can now run the show as he wants.

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^

 

It could of course be that simple. I'd have hoped the prospect of sailing for his country might have weighed in the balance somewhere and the fact that he has chosen to preclude doing so signifies something.

 

To be clear, I'm not criticising.

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^

 

It could of course be that simple. I'd have hoped the prospect of sailing for his country might have weighed in the balance somewhere and the fact that he has chosen to preclude doing so signifies something.

 

To be clear, I'm not criticising.

I doubt it.

 

The cup is about pay cheques, the Olympics is about country.

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^

 

Tell that to the Kiwis. But sure, I think you know these guys and I do not.

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Made-for-TV America’s Cup Imperils Sailors Pursuing Speed

 

On the morning of May 9, Andrew Simpson reported to work at a former seaplane base in Alameda, California, for his job trying to win the America’s Cup..............

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-12/made-for-tv-america-s-cup-imperils-sailors-pursuing-speed.html

 

 

That's the clearest public explanation to date AFAIK.

 

Maybe those who refused to believe their eyes as the crew were taken off the boat without realising that there was someone trapped aboard - will now reconsider their overly-emotional evaluation.

 

- She didn't Taco

- NO's Dad had it all wrong

- Not possible he was trapped for 10 minutes

- The attempts by the crew to get him air and get him out were a fabrication

- Wait for the results of the enquiry...

 

YEAH RIGHT

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What about nationality rules? That is the easiest way for the kiwi-dom to believe they have stolen a march, though their team seems somewhat beholden to foreign talent, maybe they will all Rod Davis.

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Sounds like he took a beating. I hope he was knocked out early on.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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So, did the government go in and confiscate Big Blue and the rest of the Artemis AC fleet today?

 

"The oilman, Gunvor Group Ltd. co-founder Gennady Timchenko, was one of 20 new individuals included in measures banning them from entering the country, freezing any U.S. assets and barring them from doing business with U.S. companies.

With 2012 revenue of $93 billion, Gunvor is one of the world’s largest commodity traders, employing more than 1,600 people and sourcing crude from more than 35 countries. Timchenko, 61, and fellow billionaire Torbjorn Tornqvist created the company, which operates from Geneva, in 2000 to handle Russian crude shipments.

While Gunvor said that Timchenko had sold his entire stake to partner Tornqvist yesterday, the U.S. action could make oil companies, traders and banks reluctant to do business with Gunvor, affecting billions of dollars of physical and derivative contracts."

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-20/putin-is-investor-in-swiss-oil-trader-gunvor-u-s-treasury-says.html

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The video interview is in the first link as well, about halfway down in the article.

What a perfect gentleman, Loick, and brilliant! God I love the French...

Did I just say that? :)

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The video interview is in the first link as well, about halfway down in the article.

What a perfect gentleman, Loick, and brilliant! God I love the French...

Did I just say that? :)

 

Loick is a stud and perfect gentleman - he could certainly teach grumpy a lesson or 30 in diplomacy and tact, if that's possible

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