sarah0809

Artemis?

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What I find amazing is how the past shining OR-AR had pretty much everything wrong up to now, dagger board, platform, foiling, interpretation of the rules etc. RC must be mad.

 

OR-AR team will have :

 

- a refurbished boat

 

- a foil assist, perhaps transformed into a full foiler

 

- a new boat we don't know much yet.

 

If foil assist is still a good option (we could see that the old Orma60 was doing better on a close reach) they have a few chances. If foiling is really faster downwind, which I think, they won't have much time to find a winning solution they don't have yet. The window being between Feb and Sept 2013, which is not much.

 

I think they would be completely mad to go on all their boats with a foiling solution they don't control yet. I think we will see a foiler and a foil assist for OR and AR should try both solutions.

 

Backed by more protests to the Jury that it's not fair that 2 other teams can foil and they can't

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Backed by more protests to the Jury that it's not fair that 2 other teams can foil and they can't

Unless of course a non-foiler takes less time around the course and beats the best foiler!!

 

26kts TBS in 10kts is not bad for a non-foiler.

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Backed by more protests to the Jury that it's not fair that 2 other teams can foil and they can't

Unless of course a non-foiler takes less time around the course and beats the best foiler!!

 

26kts TBS in 10kts is not bad for a non-foiler.

If AR were that confident about their foil-assited AC72, they wouldn't be wasting money and ridicule appealing anything that moves.

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Backed by more protests to the Jury that it's not fair that 2 other teams can foil and they can't

Unless of course a non-foiler takes less time around the course and beats the best foiler!!

 

26kts TBS in 10kts is not bad for a non-foiler.

If AR were that confident about their foil-assited AC72, they wouldn't be wasting money and ridicule appealing anything that moves.

 

Lawyers have families too and XMAS is coming . Keeping the law team sharp will pay off as we get closer to the real deal .

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Is anyone else thinking that this team is a bunch of inderviduals and egos. Reminds me of AmericaOne 2000. Hope there sails hold together.

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26kts TBS in 10kts is not bad for a non-foiler.

 

AR has three anemometers: one off their prod and a pair at the top.

 

Which "10kts" do you think they are talking about?

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Come on Artemis get that boat in the water!!

 

You don't have to foil, just be safe and do everything else better!

 

Remember "To come first, first you have to finish"

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Come on Artemis get that boat in the water!!

 

You don't have to foil, just be safe and do everything else better!

 

Remember "To come first, first you have to finish"

 

hastings lite on an 'increase my post count mission'.....

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Come on Artemis get that boat in the water!!

 

You don't have to foil, just be safe and do everything else better!

 

Remember "To come first, first you have to finish"

 

Hmm - the two Boardsports webcams (at Crown Beach and Coyote Point) show that the current weather might not be ideal

http://boardsportsschool.com/weather/webcam/

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But I expect they want to see where they are going. With the fog only now burning off it would be a very short sailing day.

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But I expect they want to see where they are going. With the fog only now burning off it would be a very short sailing day.

 

The visability in Alameda and south bay was much better than suggested above.

I think think they've got bigger problems with boat design than the weather.

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After four trips aboard the Artemis AC72, Loïck Peyron, skipper of Energy Team, gives us his first impressions of this impressive winged giant, with her exceptional size, her potential for power and her high speeds…

Loïck Peyron: “We have sailed aboard her four times and she is extremely powerful. That isn’t that much of a surprise for me, as I have spent a long time looking at the design of these machines, but it is still all very impressive. To sum up, these are boats that aren’t that wide or that big, but which have a very powerful “engine”. To get an idea of what I mean, it’s a bit like putting a V8 or V12 engine on a go-kart. So it is no easy matter making use of all that power. We saw what can happen when Oracle capsized. These machines require caution. My job was to be something like a test pilot on this AC72. I’m here to find just how far we can take things and avoid those hairy moments, when the boat starts to dig in, for example. Already by the second or third trip, I found myself out there on the helm and I can say it’s fascinating.”

What is the difference from an AC45?

LP: “They don’t have that much in common. Proportionally, the AC72s are much more unstable. Because looking at the base, the engine is that much more powerful. You need to add on a third more power to an AC45 to get some sort of idea. And then, there is the sheer scale: everything is that much heavier, including the wing, of course and the centre of gravity is not that well placed, as it is higher up. On top of that, there is a lot of inertia… the “engine” is extremely powerful, but above all she is always in gear. And of course, you can’t take in a reef…”

 

Capsizes ahead?

“Yes. Of all the boats I have sailed on, she is the trickiest. When you start flying downwind, it is very impressive and that is one of the major questions that interest us: you need to find a compromise, knowing when to fly, but above all without using too much energy to do that. For me, flying aircraft for more than twenty years, it is very interesting. After each day out there sailing, we need to spend several days ashore fine-tuning the boat on every level. For the moment, we are just working on boat number 1, but we have already got some ideas about the second one. With the first one, it’s rather like racing with 30kg on your shoulders. Once the second boat is on the water, that weight won’t be there any more.”

High speed?

“Very. For the moment, we’re taking it step by step deliberately, so we’re not out there looking for the highest speed. But we have already reached 26 knots in just 10 knots of wind.”

A useful experience for the Energy Team project?

“In every America’s Cup there is a transfer season between the teams. I’m a bit like a jobbing actor going from one team to another, or maybe more like a Swiss army knife for the team – that’s what Ernesto (Bertarelli) called me when I was with Alinghi. Of course, and it is quite normal, I have certain obligations and have to keep certain info to myself: there are certain things I can’t share with others, but it is obvious that bringing all these experiences together benefits everyone. I am in fact the first member of Energy Team to be hired by another team, but I probably won’t be the last. With Bruno and Energy Team, we have managed to build up a pool of talent. If we manage to get everything together for the next Cup, all of these experiences will be useful For the moment, from a personal perspective, this is an exceptional opportunity to try to make it all the way with Artemis, or in other words right through the Louis Vuitton Cup and further if possible…”

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Foiler: A boat that rides ON the foils, lifting the hull(s) clear of the water.

 

Foil assist: A boat that uses foils to lift the hull(s) partially, reducing wetted area but NOT flying clear of the water.

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Load testing the day before they sailed for the first time. Didn't want to risk the wing.

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^^

 

The current strategy is even more effective: not sailing at all, apparently

 

 

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At this rate they are never going to get thier 30 days sailing in before the deadline expires.

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Thanks, TC. Doesn't sound like Loick is enamored with the balance of this boat.

I think that all the parameters Loick was referring to: length/width proportion, wing area, COG, wing weight, etc are all set by the box rule, so this balance issue would apply to all AC72s, not just Artemis. obviously foil and hull design go some way to offset that, but I think it is generally accepted that in principle these beasts are not the most balanced boats on the bay!

Edit: it also comes from a guy who holds the record sailing the most stable, fastest multihull around the world, no wonder everything else seems slow and tippy :-)

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^^

 

The current strategy is even more effective: not sailing at all, apparently

 

Yup. I just don't get it. Their boat seems to be fine and dandy now, so why the hell not sail it and get as much practice and data off it as they can?

Unless they feel they have hit the design "sweet spot" and don't need to do anything else for boat 2.

Seems fairly unlikely though.

 

I wonder if it is damaged and they just haven't released the information?

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I wonder if it is damaged and they just haven't released the information?

 

you have to wonder when they'd rather muck around with an old school mast

 

than go sailing...

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@Jaysper: I had put some thoughts on this and articulated it in another thread. As I mention AR it might be alright to have it here. Goes like following:

 

In my books the "foiling" had been mostly developed and tried out on the water "down under". There is a long tradition, I was told, from the first Moths flying without wands, like ETNZ has to do to be rule conform. And ETNZ have NH in their technical team. A man who definitely knows something about it. Now to break into this theme, the foiling theme without any history, can be really difficult. It is kind of a third dimension in sailing and you cannot just buy it. I have seen the latest photos of AR in the thread and this is miles away from the possibilities of foiling. It is a waste of time they spend on this boat. They have learned the wing on the Orma. What they are achieving here is pushing lot s of water through the bridge. I am not sure that "back to the drawing board" can bring instant success in this 3rd dimension mode.

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Doubt they'll be out today, or tomorrow, or Friday.

 

 

PZZ500-282315-

840 AM PST WED NOV 28 2012

 

 

.SYNOPSIS FOR THE CENTRAL CALIFORNIA COAST AND BAYS INCLUDING

MONTEREY BAY NATIONAL MARINE SANCTUARIES...

 

A STRONG FRONTAL SYSTEM WILL MOVE THROUGH THE AREA DURING THE MID

AND LATE MORNING HOURS ACCOMPANIED BY GALE FORCE WINDS. SOUTH

TO SOUTHWEST WINDS WILL DECREASE WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON BEHIND THE

FRONT BUT WILL INCREASE AGAIN THURSDAY NIGHT AS ANOTHER STORM

MOVES INTO THE AREA. A THIRD STORM IS FORECAST TO MOVE THROUGH THE

WATERS SUNDAY BEFORE DRY WEATHER RETURNS.

 

 

PZZ545-282315- POINT REYES TO PIGEON POINT TO 10 NM- 840 AM PST WED NOV 28 2012 GALE WARNING IN EFFECT UNTIL 2 PM PST THIS AFTERNOON SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY FOR ROUGH BAR IN EFFECT THROUGH THIS EVENING TODAY S WINDS 25 TO 35 KT. COMBINED SEAS 6 TO 8 FT DOMINANT PERIOD 8 SECONDS...INCREASING TO 10 TO 11 FT DOMINANT PERIOD 8 SECONDS IN THE AFTERNOON. SLIGHT CHANCE OF THUNDERSTORMS LATE IN THE MORNING. RAIN THROUGH THE DAY. TONIGHT S WINDS 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT. W SWELL 9 TO 12 FT AT 9 SECONDS. SLIGHT CHANCE OF SHOWERS IN THE EVENING...THEN CHANCE OF SHOWERS AFTER MIDNIGHT. THU S WINDS 20 TO 30 KT. WIND WAVES 4 TO 7 FT. W SWELL 9 TO 12 FT AT 10 SECONDS. RAIN LIKELY.

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Got a phone call from one of my feet on the ground today. From the looks of the parking lot so far the majority of the AR worker bees took more than the weekend off. Anybody know whats up?

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Got a phone call from one of my feet on the ground today. From the looks of the parking lot so far the majority of the AR worker bees took more than the weekend off. Anybody know whats up?

 

Heavy American presence in this Swedish team. Extended Thanksgiving Day weekend, perhaps!

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There seems to be a delusional lack of urgency to AR. Is it…

A. They just in it for the t shirts?

B. Is their boat Tom Tucked?

C. Do they think this boat is a waste of carbon and they should just wait for boat #2

D. They know they will have an extra year to get things sorted?

E. All of the above?

Just askin as I am a closet fan!

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F. they have realised they are so far away from the right corner of the box that they will not be competitive this time, new boat or not, and need to preserve the one they've got (see A.)

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F. they have realised they are so far away from the right corner of the box that they will not be competitive this time, new boat or not, and need to preserve the one they've got (see A.)

I don't think anyone outside the team can know that ..

 

If Artemis persist with the assisted foiling concept they must be regarded as a threat to the full foilers because of the probable superior windward performance in lighter air ..

 

Their main problem seems to be an inability to do things in a timely manner .. they could enter the LV series with an inexperienced crew and a boat that will be unable to reach it's full potential because of a lack of preparation .

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Their main problem seems to be an inability to do things in a timely manner .. they could enter the LV series with an inexperienced crew and a boat will be unable to reach it's full potential because of a lack of preparation .

How quickly you forgot they where the first on the water with the a 72 wing, more than 4 months before ETNZ did.

The unfortunate failure of their first wing has obviously delayed them but to say they cant get themselves together in a timely matter is just false.

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Their main problem seems to be an inability to do things in a timely manner .. they could enter the LV series with an inexperienced crew and a boat will be unable to reach it's full potential because of a lack of preparation .

How quickly you forgot they where the first on the water with the a 72 wing, more than 4 months before ETNZ did.

The unfortunate failure of their first wing has obviously delayed them but to say they cant get themselves together in a timely matter is just false.

 

Actually, I think there is some merit to it.

They lost their wing for several months for sure.

However, they waited till AFTER the wing was ready to load test, which brought about an unncesseary delay.

 

Why the hell would you not put the boat through its shake down while waiting for your wing? Just doesnt seem to be a lot of thought put into their planning/logistics. Pretty rookie mistake.

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Got a phone call from one of my feet on the ground today. From the looks of the parking lot so far the majority of the AR worker bees took more than the weekend off. Anybody know whats up?

 

Heavy American presence in this Swedish team. Extended Thanksgiving Day weekend, perhaps!

 

You're not the only person to suggest heavy American presence but in all my converstions with ground crew I have yet to meet an American. (Not counting the girs in mustaches) who are all admin.

 

Btw it has been suggested that one of the gals in the mustache clip is PCs daughter. nttatwwt

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Their main problem seems to be an inability to do things in a timely manner .. they could enter the LV series with an inexperienced crew and a boat will be unable to reach it's full potential because of a lack of preparation .

How quickly you forgot they where the first on the water with the a 72 wing, more than 4 months before ETNZ did.

The unfortunate failure of their first wing has obviously delayed them but to say they cant get themselves together in a timely matter is just false.

 

Actually, I think there is some merit to it.

They lost their wing for several months for sure.

However, they waited till AFTER the wing was ready to load test, which brought about an unncesseary delay.

 

Why the hell would you not put the boat through its shake down while waiting for your wing? Just doesnt seem to be a lot of thought put into their planning/logistics. Pretty rookie mistake.

Because they had a suspected structural issue when tow testing, which they reinforced and had to wait until the work had cured. I suspect that they ahd already done the initial load testing in Valencia befor ethe boat was sent over and this was to check the extra strengthening they had just completed. It woulod hav ebeen a rooky mistake to test a repair before it was cured :P

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I guess the initial load testing didn't do much then...

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Their main problem seems to be an inability to do things in a timely manner .. they could enter the LV series with an inexperienced crew and a boat will be unable to reach it's full potential because of a lack of preparation .

How quickly you forgot they where the first on the water with the a 72 wing, more than 4 months before ETNZ did.

The unfortunate failure of their first wing has obviously delayed them but to say they cant get themselves together in a timely matter is just false.

I don't see the early use of the wing as being able to perform in a timely manner .. It is clever use of a big budget to buy an Orma60 and use it to test the wing before the July 31 launching deadline ..

 

The fact that they did not launch by July 31 but were more than three months late in a twelve month program proves their inability to do things in a timely manner ..

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Getting the wing up so early was a great start & I thought made them serious contenders but their inability to execute since & rather archaic design has left them in the dust.

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Getting the wing up so early was a great start & I thought made them serious contenders but their inability to execute since & rather archaic design has left them in the dust.

I wouldn't say that their design was archaic .. until they race on the water the semi foiling versus full foiling outcome remains unproven .

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The wing looks like something out of the '70s C class.

They tried spray rails back then too.

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Getting the wing up so early was a great start & I thought made them serious contenders but their inability to execute since & rather archaic design has left them in the dust.

I wouldn't say that their design was archaic .. until they race on the water the semi foiling versus full foiling outcome remains unproven .

 

I know this is the common meme but I'm not sure how true it is.

I would place a large wager that the ETNZ design team (the only one who read the rules in plain english and designed a board accordingly) have a very very good idea of where they sit on the foiling/foil assist equation and the other disign teams will almost certainly know now too. I would imagine the software analysis to determine the polars of a design with a simple foil and even a partially lifting foil are relatively developed and reliable. I can understand why they wanted to test the fully lifting foil as I'd be lest trusting of polars from software analysis on a 'new' concept but they would definitely be going on the water to 'verify' rather then 'discover' and in fact they have had 18 months of discovery with the SL33 prior - I just can't imagine the case where they have not first verified at that scale before building the 72'. Of course with two SL33s you could (most probably have) tested foil/foil assist directly against each other in a match racing scenario.

I don't doubt that in light air there are issues with the S-L but it doesn't take a genius to do your due diligence on the wind and wave probabilities for SF bay and make a decision on how to optimise your boat.

It's not just that the ETNZ have tested more than AR, they have been working on (and verified) a concept for 18 months.

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Getting the wing up so early was a great start & I thought made them serious contenders but their inability to execute since & rather archaic design has left them in the dust.

I wouldn't say that their design was archaic .. until they race on the water the semi foiling versus full foiling outcome remains unproven .

 

I know this is the common meme but I'm not sure how true it is.

I would place a large wager that the ETNZ design team (the only one who read the rules in plain english and designed a board accordingly) have a very very good idea of where they sit on the foiling/foil assist equation and the other disign teams will almost certainly know now too. I would imagine the software analysis to determine the polars of a design with a simple foil and even a partially lifting foil are relatively developed and reliable. I can understand why they wanted to test the fully lifting foil as I'd be lest trusting of polars from software analysis on a 'new' concept but they would definitely be going on the water to 'verify' rather then 'discover' and in fact they have had 18 months of discovery with the SL33 prior - I just can't imagine the case where they have not first verified at that scale before building the 72'. Of course with two SL33s you could (most probably have) tested foil/foil assist directly against each other in a match racing scenario.

I don't doubt that in light air there are issues with the S-L but it doesn't take a genius to do your due diligence on the wind and wave probabilities for SF bay and make a decision on how to optimise your boat.

It's not just that the ETNZ have tested more than AR, they have been working on (and verified) a concept for 18 months.

I agree with all that you are saying but the Artemis design is different to ETNZ's A72 and SL33's both in the hulls and the wing so even though ETNZ may have satisfied themselves that they are on the right track with their concept the Artemis design remains an unproven threat .

 

Hopefully when they eventually race the threat will be laid to rest ..

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Physically unproven is correct Terry (that's the beauty of racing) but there are enough images of AR for ETNZ to have a pretty accurate idea of it's design polars.

If GD is telling the truth in his latest interview then he hasn't the slightest concern about AR.

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No wonder they haven't been sailing: they've been sharpening the knives for poor Hutch!!

 

 

 

Change at Artemis Racing; Percy, Peyron and Outteridge in, Hutchinson out

 

 

 

New Artemis Racing helmsmen Loïck Peyron and Nathan Outteridge, and tactician Iain Percy, have been chosen to lead the Challenger of Record forward to the Louis Vuitton Cup in a shake-up that sees skipper Terry Hutchinson stepping aside. Santi Lange retains his role as design team liaison.

Peyron and Outteridge joined the team in October and August, respectively, after Hutchinson had led Artemis to victory in the 2011-12 America’s Cup World Series Match Racing Championship.

“With Loïck and Nathan we have two very high-potential helmsmen,” Cayard said in an interview at the team base overlooking San Francisco Bay on Friday.

“In Loïck we have 35 years of big multihull experience and in Nathan we have a young guy who has demonstrated a lot of talent in fast skiffs and dinghies and who has a very bright future.”

Cayard says the setbacks the team suffered earlier this year when a damaged wing significantly delayed their first sailing days on the AC72 has forced the team to consider all avenues in accelerating its program.

“It’s the end of November and we really need to push hard every single day,” he said. “At this stage, when we’re still trying to understand the limits of the boat, Loïck is the best guy in the world to help us with that. Nathan will sail the boat a bit now and we’ll see where he gets to long term.”

Iain Percy, a double gold medalist for Great Britain, has come to the team off the back of a silver medal performance at the Olympic Games this summer and is already having an impact on team dynamics according to Cayard.

“He’s a winner and he’s quickly become the center of gravity of the crew. He’s a natural leader; he’s very charismatic. He’s easy going, but has the intensity needed to win.

“And we have Santi Lange who will represent the technical side and he knows what our priorities are for testing.

“So we have plenty of personalities and strengths for an afterguard on an 11-man boat. We think this is a really strong group.”

Cayard says seeing Hutchinson leave Artemis Racing isn’t easy, but he feels it’s the right move for the team.

“Terry has done great on the AC45s and in particular in winning the match racing, but we think this new set-up will take us to the future faster and possibly with a higher-end potential in Nathan.

“So we made the difficult choice. It was a very hard decision on a personal level. Terry gave nothing less than 110% to Artemis Racing but we had to do what is best for the team and we felt this was the best choice.”

Artemis Racing hasn’t sailed its AC72 since November 19, something Cayard attributes primarily to poor weather conditions for testing. He says the team could sail as early as tomorrow (Saturday) if the current forecast holds.

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Yes that's the sort of thing they needed ..

 

“And we have Santi Lange who will represent the technical side and he knows what our priorities are for testing."

 

Does that mean that Juan Kouyoumdjian is demoted ??

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In the last video involving Hutch he was VERY VERY tentative.

 

Seemed to be rattled.

 

Maybe he knew they were preparing the plank.

 

On which he would be walking.

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Big News!

 

Wish they had kept TH on, even after making that obvious afterguard choice. Maybe he resigned on that decision? Couldn't live with it, or had better opportunities in his back pocket than being a backup? Or, did he blow up and get fired for it?

 

Nathan and Iain could make for a very powerful combo. Nathan was statistically the best starter of the 11 helms in SF2(!! big); what held him back from winning the regatta looked to be the penalty mistakes others tagged on him later in the races, something Iain could turn completely the other way around. TH's benefit from IP's tactics-calls was obvious in even the fleet races; those calls on board will likely be an even bigger gain for #SENDIT NaO than they were for TH.

 

Do hate to see Terry go though, he's a great guy w a great attitude and has a hugely successful track record at multiple levels.

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Hopefully we have seen the last of the naff ballcap/helmet/gopro combo....

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Last time I checked the AC is won with match racing and that is where Hutch excelled . . . and the brain trust at Artemis, aka Cayard, just lost their best asset. Nice job on that one! Nothing like being in total disarray with their boat and then disrupting the team. I have never heard anything but good things about Hutch working with the team. At the same time it has been painful to watch Cayard's ego get more and more in the way of a successful program.

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I think it must have become apparent even to an idiot like Cayard after watching Peyron and Outteridge helming the boat these last four days that Terry was in way over his head.

Cayard was a fool to hire Terry in the first place. Has he even been on a catamaran or sailed a skiff? The next move sould be to fire Juan K's sorry ass. The Artemis catamaran is a write off. You can tell from the pictures that it's dragging it's ass all over South Bay.

 

Blades, hull volume, wing with no twist, heavy broken wing, broken front beam, pod in the center, rookie helmsman..... the list goes on.

 

Why wouldn't you enlist Marstrom (Sweden, Hello?) to build the boad instead of the Spanish? http://www.marstrom.com/

 

It's not like they don't have money. I mean Russian oil money? Torben Tornquist's silent partner is Putin fer christ's sake.

 

Cayard should have been canned as well. They are all miliking it. Feeding off the tit.

 

See ya, Terry go back to the J22 class. And go see an orthodontist now that you have some time on your hands.

 

I think WTNZ has this thing won. Now they say they are foiling up wind. It's game over.

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Last time I checked the AC is won with match racing and that is where Hutch excelled . . . and the brain trust at Artemis, aka Cayard, just lost their best asset. Nice job on that one! Nothing like being in total disarray with their boat and then disrupting the team. I have never heard anything but good things about Hutch working with the team. At the same time it has been painful to watch Cayard's ego get more and more in the way of a successful program.

Well, I have heard the exact opposite. the team have grativated to Ian Percy and Hutch is a liability on the helm of a cat. there is no point in being the best match racer if you can't get the boat around the course. Time and again, he has shown he doesn't have a natural feel for multis and as hastings points out, he has been very tentitive on the helm. Now they have a great afterguard and I believe they have a far stronger team for this move.

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Last time I checked the AC is won with match racing and that is where Hutch excelled . . . and the brain trust at Artemis, aka Cayard, just lost their best asset. Nice job on that one! Nothing like being in total disarray with their boat and then disrupting the team. I have never heard anything but good things about Hutch working with the team. At the same time it has been painful to watch Cayard's ego get more and more in the way of a successful program.

Well, I have heard the exact opposite. the team have grativated to Ian Percy and Hutch is a liability on the helm of a cat. there is no point in being the best match racer if you can't get the boat around the course. Time and again, he has shown he doesn't have a natural feel for multis and as hastings points out, he has been very tentitive on the helm. Now they have a great afterguard and I believe they have a far stronger team for this move.

 

You are probably right about the team dynamics, but their boat is not exactly working out well they are last in a group of three. That's not hutch's fault.

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I think it must have become apparent even to an idiot like Cayard after watching Peyron and Outteridge helming the boat these last four days that Terry was in way over his head.

I am pretty sure that Nathan hasn't helmed at all yet, because whenever Loick hasn't steered, TH has been given the chance. That was probably his last chance and he failed the audition.

 

......wing with no twist,
So what? OR's wing has no twist either. It is clear you do not understand what the AR wing does. It is more powerful than either OR or ETNZ through the way the slot works, which is a completely diffierent concept from the others and which I don't believe works on a twisting wing. They have significantly better leach/trailing edge control although there is a drag penalty for the extra flaps. However, as we see on both ETNZ and LR, the twist causes significant distortion to the skin which loses efficiency, something that the AR wing doesn't. I should also add that the people who dismiss the AR wing seem to know zero about wings, while those on here who do, like Steve Clark and Blunted, have never dismissed it.

 

heavy broken wing,
broken yes, but that was due to the a supplier error. One can argue that they should have had better QA processes in place with that supplier, but you tend to trust big names with proven track records. I ma not sure where you heard the wing was heavy, because I hadn't heard that.

 

broken front beam,
Hutch's screw up, and he has paid the price

 

pod in the center,
why do you think that is bad? To many, that is one of the smart moves. The pod is only for the pre-start sequence, so the grinders don't have to keep switching sides and they can keep grinding full on the whole of the pre-start. The other teams either have to keep sprinting across the boat, losing time when they have full power available, or have crew on the wrong side.

 

But it does seem that AR are the favorite wipping boys this time around on this forum, which isn't surprising seeing we really only have 2 camps here supporters of ETNZ and OR. It's the only common ground they have, beating up on AR.

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the match racing talent argument died along time ago. Barker and Spithill can mix it up with anyone. They are all equal. DB and JS both have proven that they can drive a multihull really fast. Terry on the other hand doen't have a natural feel for going fast. I think the crew must have pushed for it. I mean this team is struggling to fly a hull on the 72 and when they so they make a big deal about it like it's some big milestone. When flying a hull on an AC 72 is a big deal, you have no business on an AC72.

 

the new AC is all about speed, not match racing tactics.

 

As far as the starting sequence, leave a few grinders on each hull and not cross the boat until the start. when the gun goes off it's all about righting moment and how you can load up the foils with that extra righting moment. the center pod is a huge price to pay for some "mystery grinding advantage" during the prestart. what are you grinding in during the start anyway? the main stays in. the jib is self tacking.

 

I think not having11 guys on the rail is a huge disadvantage. Look at how hard they hike on the 45's. they go a 2 knots faster when you hike. Bottom line, speed on a cat is all righting moment.

 

Prestart gringing advantage. Really?

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PC should go... the same way a Somali pirate goes....why not keep TH and use him as a coach?

 

Said it before and will say it again.

PC is America's answer to Chris Dickson. You can interpret that as you wish :-)

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I think it must have become apparent even to an idiot like Cayard after watching Peyron and Outteridge helming the boat these last four days that Terry was in way over his head.

Cayard was a fool to hire Terry in the first place. Has he even been on a catamaran or sailed a skiff? The next move sould be to fire Juan K's sorry ass. The Artemis catamaran is a write off. You can tell from the pictures that it's dragging it's ass all over South Bay.

 

Blades, hull volume, wing with no twist, heavy broken wing, broken front beam, pod in the center, rookie helmsman..... the list goes on.

 

Why wouldn't you enlist Marstrom (Sweden, Hello?) to build the boad instead of the Spanish? http://www.marstrom.com/

 

It's not like they don't have money. I mean Russian oil money? Torben Tornquist's silent partner is Putin fer christ's sake.

 

Cayard should have been canned as well. They are all miliking it. Feeding off the tit.

 

See ya, Terry go back to the J22 class. And go see an orthodontist now that you have some time on your hands.

 

I think WTNZ has this thing won. Now they say they are foiling up wind. It's game over.

 

That's a lot of hate. Remember it's just a sailboat race.

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Yes that's the sort of thing they needed ..

 

“And we have Santi Lange who will represent the technical side and he knows what our priorities are for testing."

 

Does that mean that Juan Kouyoumdjian is demoted ??

 

It sounds like PC included Lange as one of the 'afterguard', so part of the crew, but with the task of coordinating the test program on the boat with the rest of the team.

  • Nationality: Argentina
  • Position: Sailing & Design Liaison

http://artemis-racing.americascup.com/team/sailing-team/santiago-lange

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^^

 

That is what it is starting to look like. Artemis do not show enough sailing crew to man 2 boats unless they plan to employ more later.

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......wing with no twist,
So what? OR's wing has no twist either. It is clear you do not understand what the AR wing does. It is more powerful than either OR or ETNZ through the way the slot works, which is a completely diffierent concept from the others and which I don't believe works on a twisting wing. They have significantly better leach/trailing edge control although there is a drag penalty for the extra flaps. However, as we see on both ETNZ and LR, the twist causes significant distortion to the skin which loses efficiency, something that the AR wing doesn't. I should also add that the people who dismiss the AR wing seem to know zero about wings, while those on here who do, like Steve Clark and Blunted, have never dismissed it.

 

"Dollar each way Simon" strikes again!

 

So what if the wing has no twist - it makes it even better!

 

This from the guy who decried the ETNZ wing as inefficient, behind the times, etc etc when he falsely declared it to be a non-twisting section.

 

It's sweet the way you always support the struggling Simon - Ernesto was certainly buoyed by your undying faith in his honesty and good intentions.

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TH being sacked could not come as much of a surprise , especially around here .

 

Totally agree

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I feel sorry for Terry, but he should take some consolation from the fact that Artemis is a giant cluster fuck and he is better off out of it. Simon thinks that the Artemis wing is pretty good and I'll accept his judgement on that, but the Artemis hulls look awful to me, particularly the deep transom immersion and the rooster tail the boat pulls up. The foil concept looks pretty basic, Hydroptere style inclined straight foils downwind, and probably set more vertically for displacement mode upwind.

 

But the execution of the team has been complete crap, broken gear, construction problems, testing stuff-ups. I'm hoping that good management and sensible design might turn the team around in the next few months with their second boat, but that would mean a few large egos would need to admit they had fucked up. I'm not optimistic.

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broken front beam,

Hutch's screw up, and he has paid the price

 

 

How does that become Hutch's mistake?!!

I'm sure he wasn't the structural engineer that told them a mini jockey pole would be enough support to tow the boat off one bow at 15kts with the foils down!

 

WTF?

 

I would be the first in line to agree that multis and Hutch are not a natural thing, and that Nathan steering was a given, but unless he wasn't willing to do the gym work, he would be the perfect match racing 'angel in the ear' for Nathan. He has proven that much.

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I should also add that the people who dismiss the AR wing seem to know zero about wings, while those on here who do, like Steve Clark and Blunted, have never dismissed it.

 

 

 

In fact they haven't commented on it at all, which could be telling in itself.

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It's not like they don't have money. I mean Russian oil money? Torben Tornquist's silent partner is Putin fer christ's sake.

 

It's hard to like Artemis if you think about where the money has come from. Curious how EB's business affairs attract a lasting fascination here whereas nobody seems to care about TT's.

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It's not like they don't have money. I mean Russian oil money? Torben Tornquist's silent partner is Putin fer christ's sake.

 

It's hard to like Artemis if you think about where the money has come from. Curious how EB's business affairs attract a lasting fascination here whereas nobody seems to care about TT's.

You shouldn't be surprised...

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With all the Artemis management and design screw ups, not to mention the Oracle setback when they pushed their 72 too far, it seems like Hutch demonstrated some professionalism by being cautious in their early days on the water. It was clearly not his fault the boat broke during a tow test. Seriously, structural failure like that during a tow test?

 

And for those with short term memory loss, here's a clip that shows Hutch getting it done on the water in the heat of the moment . . .

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broken front beam,

Hutch's screw up, and he has paid the price

 

 

How does that become Hutch's mistake?!!

I'm sure he wasn't the structural engineer that told them a mini jockey pole would be enough support to tow the boat off one bow at 15kts with the foils down!

 

WTF?

Who was in charge at the time the incident happened, when the crew did something they had previously been briefed not to do? As skipper in charge of the testing TH had the ultimate responsibility for the SNAFU. And he as good as admitted it in an interview.

 

I would be the first in line to agree that multis and Hutch are not a natural thing, and that Nathan steering was a given, but unless he wasn't willing to do the gym work, he would be the perfect match racing 'angel in the ear' for Nathan. He has proven that much.
There simply isn't room on an AC72 for somebody in that role. There is too much on and the helm has to make the decisions. I have no idea whether TH has done the time in the gym or not, but having seen him breathless from hemling the AC45, it's hard to imagine he would be capable of crewing the AC72.

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Who was in charge at the time the incident happened,

 

Hutch had to go for a number of reasons . . . BUT this campaign has made countless bad decisions and mistakes, with PC as the man in charge of picking and leading the team and making the major decisions.

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How does JS keep his job if 'safe hands' is the criteria? Oh hang on, another of Simon's OZ/UK crushes, BA, is waiting in the wings - anyone but a Kiwi right?

 

..... if you cannot get the boat round the track safely, you shouldn't be anywhere near an AC72.

 

Can you say double standard? (and only one of them has actually been in a 72 crash so far)

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broken front beam,

Hutch's screw up, and he has paid the price

 

 

How does that become Hutch's mistake?!!

I'm sure he wasn't the structural engineer that told them a mini jockey pole would be enough support to tow the boat off one bow at 15kts with the foils down!

 

WTF?

 

I would be the first in line to agree that multis and Hutch are not a natural thing, and that Nathan steering was a given, but unless he wasn't willing to do the gym work, he would be the perfect match racing 'angel in the ear' for Nathan. He has proven that much.

 

Finally. Some sound lucid thinking.

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BUT this campaign has made countless bad decisions and mistakes, with PC as the man in charge of picking and leading the team and making the major decisions.

 

Exactly!

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Yes that's the sort of thing they needed ..

 

“And we have Santi Lange who will represent the technical side and he knows what our priorities are for testing."

 

Does that mean that Juan Kouyoumdjian is demoted ??

 

Lange is associated/partner with Juan K design studio,

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i bet T Hutch got the boot because of team attitude...the fact that he possibly could not get around the shake up

and PC had to clean up sheet all around.

 

I have to say this new combo looks much better....this is the Americas Cup and there will ALWAYS be changes in the team, the skipper, the afterguard.

this will probably not be the last one. not on Artemis not anywhere

 

it happens in all sorts of sports....look at the San Francisco forty niners....the coach can't make up his mind about who to go with. he has two pretty good QB's and well there will be those that have different opinions of which is the right decision.

 

I guess PC is the coach and the decision stands with him. get over it.

 

i do agree with a previous poster about James Spithill who very non chalantly put his whole team in the red....he is not 100% safe yet.

NOBODY is live by sword die by the sword.

 

now it will be very interesting to see if Mr. Hutchinson still praises the Cup, the boats, the show....or does he join all the non-players and hope for a different game....this has always baffled me.

of course you agree with the decision if you are in money train.

let's see how he feels now that he is also in the sidelines...can't wait for the next Seahorse copy.

 

ouch!

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^ I doubt TH will trash anything AC in the wake of it, burn bridges, waste possible future opportunity chances. More likely is that he puts it down to a youth movement, a younger game, much like why RC has found the new game tough.

 

If he's headed back to Q then that's what he'll be keen to talk about.

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The way it's worded suggests that TH's leaving is coincident with Perc being named sailing director; so maybe that was Perc's decision, or condition. It may also suggest that LP is now signed for the duration instead of until the end of Dec.

--

 

 

 

PRESS RELEASE

 

Artemis Racing Announces Changes to Afterguard

 

Alameda, CA - November 30, 2012 –– Artemis Racing, Challenger of Record for the 34th America’s Cup, announced today a new afterguard featuring Olympic medalists; Iain Percy, Nathan Outteridge and Santiago Lange as well as Loïck Peyron, one of the world’s most experienced multihull helmsmen. The technical and multihull experience of this group will provide Artemis an efficient nucleus to guide the team’s AC72, particularly through the next few critical months of sailing and testing.

 

Iain Percy will also act as sailing team director.

 

With these changes taking place, Terry Hutchinson has been released from the team.  “Terry has made a huge contribution to the team since we started our quest for the America’s Cup. Terry’s leadership and match racing expertise led Artemis Racing to win the 2012 ACWS Match Racing Championships and has brought the team to where we are today.  We appreciate all of his efforts and dedication.  We wish him the very best for the future,” said Paul Cayard, CEO of Artemis Racing.

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Sorry for Artemis fans, like Hutch or not this speaks of disarray, you will not be challenging for the cup. The Italians may even beat you but it means ETNZ vs Oracle in the final and should ETNZ win it would be huge. Paul Cayard must also take responsibility, who is going to sack him? Poor form Artemis...

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Paul Cayard must also take responsibility, who is going to sack him?

 

The Royal Swedish Yacht Club

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