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sarah0809

Artemis?

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The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many people yearn for the day France puts together a viable AC effort.

 

I think there is also near universal admiration for the Peyron brothers. And Cammas.

 

I also like the way the Peyrons involve their kids in their sailing campaigns.

 

But the history of French AC campaigns is dodgy. They are mostly a nation of ungovernable individuals!

 

Maybe some kind of partnership (like the current LR/TNZ one) would be a way of getting them back in the game.

 

But I agree with you.

 

An AC regatta without France does not feel right.

 

If TNZ wins, bringing France back will be a high priority.

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The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many people yearn for the day France puts together a viable AC effort.

 

I think there is also near universal admiration for the Peyron brothers. And Cammas.

 

I also like the way the Peyrons involve their kids in their sailing campaigns.

 

But the history of French AC campaigns is dodgy. They are mostly a nation of ungovernable individuals!

 

Maybe some kind of partnership (like the current LR/TNZ one) would be a way of getting them back in the game.

 

But I agree with you.

 

An AC regatta without France does not feel right.

 

If TNZ wins, bringing France back will be a high priority.

 

No matter who wins, getting France back in will be a high priority (as well as GB, Australia, & China). If ETNZ is serious about bringing France back in, they will stick with Multis.

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Despite all the shit at AR, LP is still smiling. An indication of the remarkable individual he is.

Yup. I wonder if things would have been different if he were CEO?

He certainly seems to have a relaxed way about him

LP is a fine individual but he has limited experience with the complexities of the AC ..

 

Artemis were always doomed to fail as every first time team has failed before them .. after he gets a couple of AC's under his belt LP will be in a position to lead an AC team and after a couple of losses he may be in a position to win the thing .

Terry, lets not forget he's got a big brother named Bruno. Between the two of them, there is no others with an international multihull network that comes close. I think it's too late for this round, but for 35, Atemis couldn't do better.

 

The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

This would be a nice venue

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No big surprise there - he's been helming the foiling AC45 for the past couple of months. Once they decided to make their AC72 foil then NO became the best option for the Artemis helming position.

 

I hope they manage to race and their boat is competitive.

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The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many people yearn for the day France puts together a viable AC effort.

 

I think there is also near universal admiration for the Peyron brothers. And Cammas.

 

I also like the way the Peyrons involve their kids in their sailing campaigns.

 

But the history of French AC campaigns is dodgy. They are mostly a nation of ungovernable individuals!

 

Maybe some kind of partnership (like the current LR/TNZ one) would be a way of getting them back in the game.

 

But I agree with you.

 

An AC regatta without France does not feel right.

 

If TNZ wins, bringing France back will be a high priority.

 

No matter who wins, getting France back in will be a high priority (as well as GB, Australia, & China). If ETNZ is serious about bringing France back in, they will stick with Multis.

 

This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

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This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

or perhaps because of multiple French syndicates instead of one

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This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

or perhaps because of multiple French syndicates instead of one

 

At one point weren't their 3 potential syndicates ?

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This event is incredibly complex .. just building some kind of boat is an achievement in it's self .. inevitably failure will be huge .. even OR have had their problems .. previous AC experience is necessary but clearly not enough .. the technology has reached a new level .

 

Quite so .... and this is why it is important small nations bring their unique tendencies to the table.

 

Do you think campaigning this AC72 is more or less complex than producing the Lord of the Rings trilogy (where the 3 films were shot concurrently - not in a sequence).

 

Different task .... but one of my aims is to introduce PJ to GD. I think they would have some things in common.

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I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34

 

Why? AC34 has so far been a total screw up and all but die hard OR fans or severely blinkered Cat nuts with chips on their shoulder have now realised that cats aren't particularly suited to a match racing. If you are a neutral sailing fan you would surely have to be cheering for anyone other than OR, in the same way that AC33 was anyone other than Alinghi.

 

One thing we can say is that whichever team wins AC34 they'll be armed with a hip-muppet of a CoR, a concept that fucked AC33 and has led to the fuck up that is AC34. If OR really did want to do something worthwhile they should have the DoG amended to outlaw the hip-muppet CoR, before some Billionnaire hijacks the AC for good.

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This event is incredibly complex .. just building some kind of boat is an achievement in it's self .. inevitably failure will be huge .. even OR have had their problems .. previous AC experience is necessary but clearly not enough .. the technology has reached a new level .

 

Quite so .... and this is why it is important small nations bring their unique tendencies to the table.

 

Do you think campaigning this AC72 is more or less complex than producing the Lord of the Rings trilogy (where the 3 films were shot concurrently - not in a sequence).

 

Different task .... but one of my aims is to introduce PJ to GD. I think they would have some things in common.

 

By small nations do you mean Sweden?

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I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34

 

... have now realised that cats aren't particularly suited to a match racing. ...

 

 

 

 

 

this, of course after reviewing the multitude of match races that have taken place in SF Bay between the AC72's over the last few weeks....

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Outteridge will helm Artemis Racing boat in Louis Vuitton Cup
Posted on June 19, 2013 at 1:28 pm by Tom FitzGerald in America's Cup

There has been no formal announcement from Artemis Racing, but it was learned Wednesday that 26-year-old Australian Nathan Outteridge will steer the Swedish syndicate’s boat in the Louis Vuitton Cup.

149992984-600x443.jpg

Nathan Outteridge (on the right) is set to steer the Artemis boat in the Louis Vuitton Cup. (Clive Mason/Getty)

Just when Artemis will enter that competition is still up in the air. The team is still building its new wing and getting its second boat ready after the first one was wrecked in the May 9 crash that claimed the life of strategist Andrew “Bart” Simpson.

 

America’s Cup officials recently said they hoped Artemis would enter the Vuitton Cup round-robin against Luna Rossa Challenge and Emirates Team New Zealand at the end of July. But it’s possible that Artemis will not race at all until the semifinals beginning Aug. 6. The winner of the round-robin can advance directly to the finals; otherwise, the semifinals are the first races that really count. The winner of the finals faces Oracle Team USA in the America’s Cup in September.

Outteridge won a gold medal in the 49er class at the London Olympics in 2012. He was the helmsman for Team Korea in the 2011-12 America’s Cup World Series before Artemis lured him for the 2012-13 season.

 

He was steering the Artemis boat when it capsized near Treasure Island. Simpson was pinned underneath the wreckage and could not be revived.

The other Artemis helmsman, Loick Peyron of France, was skipper of his country’s Energy Team during the two World Series seasons.

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This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

or perhaps because of multiple French syndicates instead of one

 

At one point weren't their 3 potential syndicates ?

 

Yes there were three separate teams trying to divide up a very small pie sponsor wise . Instead of perhaps working together they took pot shots at each others campaigns and the net result was France 0 for 3 .

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This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

or perhaps because of multiple French syndicates instead of one

 

At one point weren't their 3 potential syndicates ?

 

Yes there were three separate teams trying to divide up a very small pie sponsor wise . Instead of perhaps working together they took pot shots at each others campaigns and the net result was France 0 for 3 .

 

Probably because cats were involved, not as a result of it. Apparently that minor point was overlooked in porta potty's previous post attempting to undermine the event. Too many swigs of grumpy's koolaid, to put it nicely :)

 

Seems like a cheap shot hastings would take. Must be a cultural thing :)

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I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34

 

... have now realised that cats aren't particularly suited to a match racing. ...

 

 

 

 

 

this, of course after reviewing the multitude of match races that have taken place in SF Bay between the AC72's over the last few weeks....

 

Nope - this after reviewing the AC45's and applying commonsense. I can't imagine the AC72's are going to be more maneuverable, more likely to engage, but I might of course be wrong, fancy a wager?

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I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34

 

... have now realised that cats aren't particularly suited to a match racing. ...

 

 

 

 

 

this, of course after reviewing the multitude of match races that have taken place in SF Bay between the AC72's over the last few weeks....

 

Nope - this after reviewing the AC45's and applying commonsense. I can't imagine the AC72's are going to be more maneuverable, more likely to engage, but I might of course be wrong, fancy a wager?

 

From the few AC races that I watched back in the monohull area, I can't remember much of any kind of match racing either - a few snoozefests come to mind during the 2000 cup where for once I had the chance of watching on live television, but didn't manage to stay awake before the finish...

 

I'm sure you all love to remember the exciting races, conveniently forgetting the majority of matches where there was practically no contact at the start, and the decision was made on a fluke of the wind during an hour and a half of watching two leadmines bob around...

 

Agreed, not all ACWS match races have been rivetting, but then neither was the IACC any guarantee for close action...

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the majority of matches where there was practically no contact at the start, and the decision was made on a fluke of the wind during an hour and a half of watching two leadmines bob around...

 

The MAJORITY???

 

So what you are saying is over the past 20-30 years or so, most LVC and AC matches have been a lottery. Really!!!!!!!!!

 

Or are you posting anything to justify the decision to race big cats in a match race??

 

If cats and match racing are a match made in heaven why so much fleet racing in the ACWS???

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This event is incredibly complex .. just building some kind of boat is an achievement in it's self .. inevitably failure will be huge .. even OR have had their problems .. previous AC experience is necessary but clearly not enough .. the technology has reached a new level .

 

Quite so .... and this is why it is important small nations bring their unique tendencies to the table.

 

Do you think campaigning this AC72 is more or less complex than producing the Lord of the Rings trilogy (where the 3 films were shot concurrently - not in a sequence).

 

Different task .... but one of my aims is to introduce PJ to GD. I think they would have some things in common.

 

I think GD's task was more difficult than Peter Jacksons ..

 

Timewise PJ has had many years to build up the resources needed for his craft and has not had the same time pressure to raise the funds and put together his project and although he shot 3 films simultaneously he did spend an extra couple of years editing films #2 and #3 .. GD has had only 3 years to finance , design , build and train the sailors for the A72 which is not a simple progression from previous boats ..

 

PJ has been able to use people who are readily available here in New Zealand .. GD has had to recruit people from all over the world who have the necessary skills for a technology which was not highly developed in New Zealand .

 

Both PJ and GD are not technical people but have put together a team which has developed world beating technology .

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This event is incredibly complex .. just building some kind of boat is an achievement in it's self .. inevitably failure will be huge .. even OR have had their problems .. previous AC experience is necessary but clearly not enough .. the technology has reached a new level .

 

Quite so .... and this is why it is important small nations bring their unique tendencies to the table.

 

Do you think campaigning this AC72 is more or less complex than producing the Lord of the Rings trilogy (where the 3 films were shot concurrently - not in a sequence).

 

Different task .... but one of my aims is to introduce PJ to GD. I think they would have some things in common.

 

Te Kooti quit banging on about it, please.

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the majority of matches where there was practically no contact at the start, and the decision was made on a fluke of the wind during an hour and a half of watching two leadmines bob around...

 

The MAJORITY???

 

So what you are saying is over the past 20-30 years or so, most LVC and AC matches have been a lottery. Really!!!!!!!!!

 

Or are you posting anything to justify the decision to race big cats in a match race??

 

If cats and match racing are a match made in heaven why so much fleet racing in the ACWS???

 

didn't mean to say the racing has been a lottery - I'm sure it has always taken a lot of talent and hard work to sail the boats as well as they did in the day.

 

But that is just as valid for the multihulls now.

 

I'm just saying that the actual proportion of 'pure matchracing' has always been more limited than some people suggest.

 

Remember back during AC33, people were saying that the big multi's would never properly match race each other, that they were fundamentally incapable of doing that? Well Jimmy put all those arguments to bed in the first minutes of race 1...

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Do you think campaigning this AC72 is more or less complex than producing the Lord of the Rings trilogy (where the 3 films were shot concurrently - not in a sequence).

 

Different task .... but one of my aims is to introduce PJ to GD. I think they would have some things in common.

 

What sort of socialist are you. Haven't you heard from your union mates that PJ is an evil capitalist. You don't want to be seen associating with PJ or the marxists will hound you out of the party

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Remember back during AC33, people were saying that the big multi's would never properly match race each other, that they were fundamentally incapable of doing that? Well Jimmy put all those arguments to bed in the first minutes of race 1...

 

Oh the race where he ended up in irons and missed the start by a couple of minutes.

 

Again I am sorry to have to disagree with your assertion that actual match racing in mono's has always been limited, as I said before I believe you, like many who supported multis post AC33, will post anything to justify the decision to race big cats in a match race.

 

Why so much fleet racing in the ACWS - is it because it's a dammed site more interesting than the match racing?

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Remember back during AC33, people were saying that the big multi's would never properly match race each other, that they were fundamentally incapable of doing that? Well Jimmy put all those arguments to bed in the first minutes of race 1...

 

Oh the race where he ended up in irons and missed the start by a couple of minutes.

 

Again I am sorry to have to disagree with your assertion that actual match racing in mono's has always been limited, as I said before I believe you, like many who supported multis post AC33, will post anything to justify the decision to race big cats in a match race.

 

Why so much fleet racing in the ACWS - is it because it's a dammed site more interesting than the match racing?

 

For me it's not about justifying the decision, it's about keeping an open mind about it and seeing what kind of match the cats will come up with.

 

I have no axe to grind on either side of the mono vs multi debate, but I did enjoy the ACWS, fleet and match racing, and am looking forward to the racing in SF.

 

There are however many who have not yet gotten over the fact that the AC world (and the wider world I might add) has changed a lot from what it was a decade ago. Those heady days of a dozen or more challengers, with employment for many a mercenary sailor, are gone and won't be back for the foreseeable future.

 

Even if the cup should revert to mono's...

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The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many people yearn for the day France puts together a viable AC effort.

 

I think there is also near universal admiration for the Peyron brothers. And Cammas.

 

I also like the way the Peyrons involve their kids in their sailing campaigns.

 

But the history of French AC campaigns is dodgy. They are mostly a nation of ungovernable individuals!

 

Maybe some kind of partnership (like the current LR/TNZ one) would be a way of getting them back in the game.

 

But I agree with you.

 

An AC regatta without France does not feel right.

 

If TNZ wins, bringing France back will be a high priority.

 

No matter who wins, getting France back in will be a high priority (as well as GB, Australia, & China). If ETNZ is serious about bringing France back in, they will stick with Multis.

My hope too. Every AC should have GB Oz, France, NZ, US - got the people supply, got the marine industries, got the sailing passions and aspirations, can pull together the tech out of the globalized knowhow, potentially can find the program leaders, just hope the world economy allows the budgets to be accessed. I think Sweden too fits the profile.

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The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many people yearn for the day France puts together a viable AC effort.

 

I think there is also near universal admiration for the Peyron brothers. And Cammas.

 

I also like the way the Peyrons involve their kids in their sailing campaigns.

 

But the history of French AC campaigns is dodgy. They are mostly a nation of ungovernable individuals!

 

Maybe some kind of partnership (like the current LR/TNZ one) would be a way of getting them back in the game.

 

But I agree with you.

 

An AC regatta without France does not feel right.

 

If TNZ wins, bringing France back will be a high priority.

No matter who wins, getting France back in will be a high priority (as well as GB, Australia, & China). If ETNZ is serious about bringing France back in, they will stick with Multis.

This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

Now that's an interesting comment. Do you mean they couldn't afford to lose at their own game?

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The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

Many people yearn for the day France puts together a viable AC effort.

 

I think there is also near universal admiration for the Peyron brothers. And Cammas.

 

I also like the way the Peyrons involve their kids in their sailing campaigns.

 

But the history of French AC campaigns is dodgy. They are mostly a nation of ungovernable individuals!

 

Maybe some kind of partnership (like the current LR/TNZ one) would be a way of getting them back in the game.

 

But I agree with you.

 

An AC regatta without France does not feel right.

 

If TNZ wins, bringing France back will be a high priority.

No matter who wins, getting France back in will be a high priority (as well as GB, Australia, & China). If ETNZ is serious about bringing France back in, they will stick with Multis.

This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

Now that's an interesting comment. Do you mean they couldn't afford to lose at their own game?

 

They just couldn't afford to play the game in the first place.

 

Many large sponsoring contracts in French sailing had already been cancelled, and no billionaires were around to step in and foot the bill...

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It would not be hard to fund a French Americas Cup Team:

 

Step 1: Make a law that sailing is fundamental to French national sporting and cultural identity and must therefore be protected….(like French Cinema).

 

Step 2: Tax the evil American capitalists that have distracted the French people through their advertising and thereby prevented them from remembering their sailing cultural identity _________ (insert your pick of Amazon, Starbucks, Google).

 

Step 3: Hire the brightest young people from your universities into government sailing jobs…..to the detriment of industry.

 

Step 4: Repeat across a range of industries for 100 years and then wonder why your uncompetitive when China and India appear from no where.

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Don't underestimate French ingenuity. To be a ski-instructor in France (beyond a limited period) you have to ski a giant slalom course at close to a professional ski racer's time - the "Eurotest" http://www.basi.org.uk/content/euro-speed-test.aspx. It is, of course, vital for safety when teaching small children how to snow-plough that the instructor can also hurtle down a slalom course at racing speed. Only perfidious Anglo-Saxons would contemplate the idea that this is a swerve-turn around EU laws concerning free movement of labour. British ski instructors working for long-established and reputable ski schools have been handcuffed and led off to spend time in police cells for instructing without the correct paper-work.

 

P.S. Does the use of "safety" to introduce funky rules resonate here at all?

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Don't underestimate French ingenuity. To be a ski-instructor in France (beyond a limited period) you have to ski a giant slalom course at close to a professional ski racer's time - the "Eurotest" http://www.basi.org.uk/content/euro-speed-test.aspx. It is, of course, vital for safety when teaching small children how to snow-plough that the instructor can also hurtle down a slalom course at racing speed. Only perfidious Anglo-Saxons would contemplate the idea that this is a swerve-turn around EU laws concerning free movement of labour. British ski instructors working for long-established and reputable ski schools have been handcuffed and led off to spend time in police cells for instructing without the correct paper-work.

 

P.S. Does the use of "safety" to introduce funky rules resonate here at all?

 

 

What a strange concept, ensuring that people who teach actually know anything about the subject they are teaching...

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Absolutely. The ability to ski a giant-slalom course within 18% of the time set by a top-racer clearly demonstrates the necessary skills to teach snow-bunnies how to snow plough, whereas the ability to speak the language of the students is a mere nice-to-have.

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Not to mention that vital ingedient of 'mountain knowledge'

 

 

^

 

Absolutely. The ability to ski a giant-slalom course within 18% of the time set by a top-racer clearly demonstrates the necessary skills to teach snow-bunnies how to snow plough, whereas the ability to speak the language of the students is a mere nice-to-have.

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Absolutely. The ability to ski a giant-slalom course within 18% of the time set by a top-racer clearly demonstrates the necessary skills to teach snow-bunnies how to snow plough, whereas the ability to speak the language of the students is a mere nice-to-have.

 

Now I suddenly understand where Eddy the Eagle came from...

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Alpha:

 

For clarity, do you think that to teach sailing you should be able to complete a championship course in a force 4 within 18% of the time set by a member of the national team? - the ski test is exactly that.... i.e. very steep and the time set by a national circuit racer.

 

If you think that there would be only a handful of dinghy/saiilng instructors. Racing is not teaching.

 

 

 

^

 

Don't underestimate French ingenuity. To be a ski-instructor in France (beyond a limited period) you have to ski a giant slalom course at close to a professional ski racer's time - the "Eurotest" http://www.basi.org.uk/content/euro-speed-test.aspx. It is, of course, vital for safety when teaching small children how to snow-plough that the instructor can also hurtle down a slalom course at racing speed. Only perfidious Anglo-Saxons would contemplate the idea that this is a swerve-turn around EU laws concerning free movement of labour. British ski instructors working for long-established and reputable ski schools have been handcuffed and led off to spend time in police cells for instructing without the correct paper-work.

 

P.S. Does the use of "safety" to introduce funky rules resonate here at all?

 

 

What a strange concept, ensuring that people who teach actually know anything about the subject they are teaching...

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^

 

Absolutely. The ability to ski a giant-slalom course within 18% of the time set by a top-racer clearly demonstrates the necessary skills to teach snow-bunnies how to snow plough, whereas the ability to speak the language of the students is a mere nice-to-have.

Whilst being within a percentage of the French national team's best time is a bit of a joke, to some (though I know English instructors in France who are positive about the concept) having a second language is also a necessary requirement to pass the test...

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^

Beg to differ on both counts: the reciprocal, congenital preference of a root canal to speaking the other's language is quite entertaining to third parties - better to cultivate it from an early age

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Alpha:

 

For clarity, do you think that to teach sailing you should be able to complete a championship course in a force 4 within 18% of the time set by a member of the national team? - the ski test is exactly that.... i.e. very steep and the time set by a national circuit racer.

 

If you think that there would be only a handful of dinghy/saiilng instructors. Racing is not teaching.

 

 

 

^

 

Don't underestimate French ingenuity. To be a ski-instructor in France (beyond a limited period) you have to ski a giant slalom course at close to a professional ski racer's time - the "Eurotest" http://www.basi.org.uk/content/euro-speed-test.aspx. It is, of course, vital for safety when teaching small children how to snow-plough that the instructor can also hurtle down a slalom course at racing speed. Only perfidious Anglo-Saxons would contemplate the idea that this is a swerve-turn around EU laws concerning free movement of labour. British ski instructors working for long-established and reputable ski schools have been handcuffed and led off to spend time in police cells for instructing without the correct paper-work.

 

P.S. Does the use of "safety" to introduce funky rules resonate here at all?

 

 

What a strange concept, ensuring that people who teach actually know anything about the subject they are teaching...

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about this - it's arbitrary how much skill you choose to have in your instructors, different approaches will have different strengths and weaknesses. Some people, a fair few in the UK, like to rib France for doing things differently, but in the end it just comes across looking like insecurity. Maybe there's still a lot to historic tension and rivalry at play which could be from both sides. Having only lived in the UK, I can't say whether the French reciprocate. But if I look for another example, the weird way in which a lot of Brits drool over 'America' (and their political 'special relationship'), which is unrequited, I think indicates that insecurity following the fall of the empire is ingrained into the national psyche.

 

Anyway, what did I hear on car-talk the other day? 'The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French'.

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^

 

Absolutely. The ability to ski a giant-slalom course within 18% of the time set by a top-racer clearly demonstrates the necessary skills to teach snow-bunnies how to snow plough, whereas the ability to speak the language of the students is a mere nice-to-have.

Whilst being within a percentage of the French national team's best time is a bit of a joke, to some (though I know English instructors in France who are positive about the concept) having a second language is also a necessary requirement to pass the test...

 

Yeah. Have you heard some French ski instructors speaking English? My French is equally execrable but I don't attempt to make a living teaching in it.

 

Yes there are some British ski instructors who are keen on the concept, for exactly the same reason as the French. Add a ridiculous and irrelevant qualification hurdle, which most fail, and it restricts the supply of new instructors and allows those qualified to charge higher fees (which are eye-wateringly high).

 

I've no problem with the qualification system for alpine guides, which is also hard to enter and makes a nice living for those who eventually qualify, because the criteria are relevant and what they are doing is genuinely highly-skilled in a hazardous environment. But in France, with limited exemptions, you have to be a level 4 ski instructor to teach beginners on the piste and that's for safety reasons - pull the other one.

 

Anyway, I only meant this as a brief distraction on a slow news day but it seems to have developed legs.

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It was good to see Cayard racing the city front last night and milling around the StFYC enjoying a beer. The stress of the Cup has taken a toll but he returns to his roots for some fun Knarr sailing with the boys. Good for you Paul..!!

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OMG news...!

 

 

June 20, 2013

Artemis Racing’s Törnqvist Joins the Team on the AC45

DSC_2463_4-website-photo-960x456.jpg

© Artemis Racing

 

Artemis Racing’s owner, Torbjörn Törnqvist, this week visited San Francisco, where he spent time with the team—working out, participating in dive training, and sailing on the AC45 (even notching a new speed record). It was Torbjörn’s second visit in the last month.

 

“It has been great to be together with the team, and I am impressed with what they’ve been able to accomplish under such difficult circumstances,” Torbjörn said. “There is clearly still a lot of work to do, but safety remains the central consideration.” http://artemis-racing.americascup.com/news/4555

 

 

Critics everywhere though it seems... :o

 

71778_1555439119543_6886507_a.jpg
Would be better if your boat joined the water . Hurry up

8 minutes ago via mobile

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I ~thought~ I saw Kevin Hall in an AR photo from at the Giants Baseball event last night. May have been McGinnes or somebody else. But either way there are ~all kinds~ of reasons why people might quit; fear of sailing the new boat is only one possibility.

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How did we get all the way to repulsive? Did I miss undesirable?

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^^ Being the only poster with an AR avatar,Alpina is probably feeling dejected and abandoned...

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^^ Being the only poster with an AR avatar,Alpina is probably feeling dejected and abandoned...

I feel for Alpina, it's been a difficult ride so far.

 

I really hope AR can win a race or two, finally have a glorious moment of achievement to show for their efforts.

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Oneyoti, on 20 Jun 2013 - 04:55, said:

Alpha FB, on 20 Jun 2013 - 04:35, said:

Remember back during AC33, people were saying that the big multi's would never properly match race each other, that they were fundamentally incapable of doing that? Well Jimmy put all those arguments to bed in the first minutes of race 1...

Oh the race where he ended up in irons and missed the start by a couple of minutes.

 

Again I am sorry to have to disagree with your assertion that actual match racing in mono's has always been limited, as I said before I believe you, like many who supported multis post AC33, will post anything to justify the decision to race big cats in a match race.

 

Why so much fleet racing in the ACWS - is it because it's a dammed site more interesting than the match racing?

From the day that America first won the Cup, the America's Cup has been a technology race. It only became a match race when the rules became so restrictive that they stifled the advancement of technology. We have finally gotten back to what George Stevens and the rest of the syndicate that financed America had in mind - use superior marine design technology to smoke the competition and collect on some side bets. They were into hauling ass and leaving their competitors in the dust, not having a sword fight... BTW - the tactics and games within a fleet race have always been more interesting to watch than a match race - whatever kind of boat it is. That's not a multihull thing. If watching a sword fight is more interesting to you than seeing the boundaries of sailing technology being pushed back daily on S.F. Bay, tune into the world match racing circuit and enjoy the show.

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^^ Being the only poster with an AR avatar,Alpina is probably feeling dejected and abandoned...

I feel for Alpina, it's been a difficult ride so far.

 

I really hope AR can win a race or two, finally have a glorious moment of achievement to show for their efforts.

 

You know what's funny Stingray. AR best chance of winning a race is under the LR/ETNZ proposed schedule.

 

Under the current schedule AR will meet LR or ETNZ in the elimination semi-final after ETNZ/LR have had 5 serious matches each and are a lot more match hardened.

 

Under the proposed schedule AR would meet LR and ETNZ who would not have had the benefit of any racing.

 

Even if AR were to miss the first couple of races they would still meet LR and ETNZ who would only have a couple of races under their belt, not 5 races. Also under the proposed points weighting scheme where points early in the round are worth less than later in the round AR wouldn't lose much in the way of points either and one win later could make up for earlier losses or non-participation.

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June 20, 2013

san-francisco.gif?31

 

A Cup of Caen: Of Cats and Cups

 

When I hear people wonder aloud why the America's Cup is being sailed in high tech catamarans this year, this quote from Artemis Racing's Paul Cayard really sums it up for me. "That's the stigma that the America's Cup had: the boats went slowly and there was one long race a day. And you get up and take a shower and get lunch and come back and the boats were pretty much in the same place, and that was peoples' thoughts about sailing."

 

You can read the rest here ..

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-of-cats-and_b_3473280.html

 

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^^^^ Good piece that, from a journo who is actually a 4ksb sailor too.

 

Unintentional irony in quoting Russel "we wanted to be able to sail in all conditions". Well, all conditions less than 20 kts, I guess.

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And you are surprised? Very soon they won't have to quit, they will all be made redundant.

 

 

Another AC72 crewman just quit, this is getting repulsive...

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than seeing the boundaries of sailing technology being pushed back daily on S.F. Bay

 

Sadly the boundaries of sailing are being pushed on 500m and 1 mile speed courses or at the other end of the scale, on records round the word.

 

What you actually mean is pushing the boundaries of sailing around a small inshore course in SF in ever decreasing wind speeds.

 

You can maintain that the AC is an arms race but the DoG also made it a MATCH race.

 

What's more interesting to watch??

 

For me....................... a cutlass duel beats the majesty of 2 extreme machines gliding off in different directions, with the spectator wondering who might cross. That is why drag racing is small cheese, when compared with NASCAR and F1, it isn't the technology that makes for good viewing, it's the competition and the personailities and sadly 2 biggish, wing sailed cats (AC45's) haven't exactly produced many great matches, so it's highly unlikely that the AC72's are going to do so, although I might be wrong. Big cats fleet racing yes, but there again is the ACWS any more interesting to watch than the Extreme 40's?

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Another AC72 crewman just quit, this is getting repulsive...

 

Link?

or just another rumour

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than seeing the boundaries of sailing technology being pushed back daily on S.F. Bay

 

Sadly the boundaries of sailing are being pushed on 500m and 1 mile speed courses or at the other end of the scale, on records round the word.

 

What you actually mean is pushing the boundaries of sailing around a small inshore course in SF in ever decreasing wind speeds.

 

You can maintain that the AC is an arms race but the DoG also made it a MATCH race.

 

What's more interesting to watch??

 

For me....................... a cutlass duel beats the majesty of 2 extreme machines gliding off in different directions, with the spectator wondering who might cross. That is why drag racing is small cheese, when compared with NASCAR and F1, it isn't the technology that makes for good viewing, it's the competition and the personailities and sadly 2 biggish, wing sailed cats (AC45's) haven't exactly produced many great matches, so it's highly unlikely that the AC72's are going to do so, although I might be wrong. Big cats fleet racing yes, but there again is the ACWS any more interesting to watch than the Extreme 40's?

Easy, AC45's.

Have a squiz at the final ACWS match race in Naples.

Absolutely fantastic sailing and video.

 

Is match racing better in multihulls than lead mines?

Different but much, much better.

Embrace the difference or be stuck in the slow lane.

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Have a squiz at the final ACWS match race in Naples.

Absolutely fantastic sailing and video.

 

Did watch it & really can't agree with your assessment. Dull stuff compared to the Elliotts at Weymouth. The foiling on the 72s does however add another dimension for me but I'm still unconvinced we are going to see much in the way of match racing moves. If nothing else, self-preservation and the need to last the "summer of sailing" is going to make helms careful. Very, very careful.

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^

DW,

The pure speed of the multies makes the match racing different.

Do not expect a slow mono match race to be the same as a multi match race.

Luno Rossa ended up owning OR at the start (beautiful starting control).

But listen to the commentary from Slingsby as he gets behind.

It is and education the way he talks to his crew, changes strategy and picks the shifts to get back into the race.

Beautiful.

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Another AC72 crewman just quit, this is getting repulsive...

 

Link?

or just another rumour

 

If you are on the inside and the writing is on the wall then you make your choices. Stay and hope you can get it together or perhaps take another opportunity before it goes away.

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OMG news...!

 

 

June 20, 2013

Artemis Racing’s Törnqvist Joins the Team on the AC45

DSC_2463_4-website-photo-960x456.jpg

© Artemis Racing

 

 

"If you haven't done it before ... it is a new experience." -TT. Yep

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The Peyrons will not be doing anything with Artemis following AC34. They are much more interested in competing to bring the cup back to France. While I have never been a big fan of the French (other than the folks that live in the countryside of Provence that I met, who make great wine, great food, and great art, and are truly friendly), I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34, and for a French team to win it in AC35. I think having the French take the cup back home and defend in a great venue such as Marseille or somewhere on the Brittany coast would create the absolute greatest interest possible in the cup, draw out the most possible teams, and allow for sailing in a similarly exciting conditions and back drop as we will see in SF this summer. I'm really hoping the Peyrons and Energy Team come out of the AC34 experience with a head of steam and the subsequent AC boat rule and protocol result in their ability to put together a great challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many people yearn for the day France puts together a viable AC effort.

 

I think there is also near universal admiration for the Peyron brothers. And Cammas.

 

I also like the way the Peyrons involve their kids in their sailing campaigns.

 

But the history of French AC campaigns is dodgy. They are mostly a nation of ungovernable individuals!

 

Maybe some kind of partnership (like the current LR/TNZ one) would be a way of getting them back in the game.

 

But I agree with you.

 

An AC regatta without France does not feel right.

 

If TNZ wins, bringing France back will be a high priority.

 

No matter who wins, getting France back in will be a high priority (as well as GB, Australia, & China). If ETNZ is serious about bringing France back in, they will stick with Multis.

 

This is the first time in over thirty years that there hasn't been a French challenge for the Americas Cup and the reason is because it was in multi's.

 

Give me a break. Yeah, the French don't like multis, huh?

 

It was not because it was in Multis, it was because of a variety of issues, including the economy, the scale of the boats, the timing, and the fact that there were three teams trying to divide up a pie that MIGHT have been able to feed one until they had all starved to death.

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I think the best thing that could happen for the Americas Cup would be for OR to defend in AC34

 

Why? AC34 has so far been a total screw up and all but die hard OR fans or severely blinkered Cat nuts with chips on their shoulder have now realised that cats aren't particularly suited to a match racing. If you are a neutral sailing fan you would surely have to be cheering for anyone other than OR, in the same way that AC33 was anyone other than Alinghi.

 

One thing we can say is that whichever team wins AC34 they'll be armed with a hip-muppet of a CoR, a concept that fucked AC33 and has led to the fuck up that is AC34. If OR really did want to do something worthwhile they should have the DoG amended to outlaw the hip-muppet CoR, before some Billionnaire hijacks the AC for good.

 

Yeah, I'm sure you are very neutral, very objective, and very observant.

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Alpha:

 

For clarity, do you think that to teach sailing you should be able to complete a championship course in a force 4 within 18% of the time set by a member of the national team? - the ski test is exactly that.... i.e. very steep and the time set by a national circuit racer.

 

If you think that there would be only a handful of dinghy/saiilng instructors. Racing is not teaching.

 

 

 

^

 

Don't underestimate French ingenuity. To be a ski-instructor in France (beyond a limited period) you have to ski a giant slalom course at close to a professional ski racer's time - the "Eurotest" http://www.basi.org.uk/content/euro-speed-test.aspx. It is, of course, vital for safety when teaching small children how to snow-plough that the instructor can also hurtle down a slalom course at racing speed. Only perfidious Anglo-Saxons would contemplate the idea that this is a swerve-turn around EU laws concerning free movement of labour. British ski instructors working for long-established and reputable ski schools have been handcuffed and led off to spend time in police cells for instructing without the correct paper-work.

 

P.S. Does the use of "safety" to introduce funky rules resonate here at all?

 

 

What a strange concept, ensuring that people who teach actually know anything about the subject they are teaching...

I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about this - it's arbitrary how much skill you choose to have in your instructors, different approaches will have different strengths and weaknesses. Some people, a fair few in the UK, like to rib France for doing things differently, but in the end it just comes across looking like insecurity. Maybe there's still a lot to historic tension and rivalry at play which could be from both sides. Having only lived in the UK, I can't say whether the French reciprocate. But if I look for another example, the weird way in which a lot of Brits drool over 'America' (and their political 'special relationship'), which is unrequited, I think indicates that insecurity following the fall of the empire is ingrained into the national psyche.

 

Anyway, what did I hear on car-talk the other day? 'The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French'.

 

That is awesome, and very true.

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I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about this - it's arbitrary how much skill you choose to have in your instructors, different approaches will have different strengths and weaknesses.

 

Arbitrary - no not really. There's EU law on freedom of movement for labour and services and a series of associated EU case law on equivalence of professional qualifications e.g. (surprise, surprise) on legal qualifications. Countries cannot just insist on any qualification they like, there has to be "proportionality" (a favourite word in EU law). The question is whether anyone has the will, stamina and deep pockets to take this to court. So far, nobody has.

 

Anyway, back to the advertised programme.

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Doing a lot of work on their main beam as I understand it while the rest of the boat is off to Weight Watchers. Need to shed about 150kg i understand

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So is AR raising the white flag yet?

 

How's that law suit you were claiming Barts wife had started ?

 

Found a link for that its been over a week now ?

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Doing a lot of work on their main beam as I understand it while the rest of the boat is off to Weight Watchers. Need to shed about 150kg i understand

 

And what is your source this time, the famous "Mr. Heard" ? :)

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Doing a lot of work on their main beam as I understand it while the rest of the boat is off to Weight Watchers. Need to shed about 150kg i understand

if this is even half true the entire design team should be giving back their pay for the last two years.

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Doing a lot of work on their main beam as I understand it while the rest of the boat is off to Weight Watchers. Need to shed about 150kg i understand

 

ouch!

 

thanks for that

 

makes sense

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Doing a lot of work on their main beam as I understand it while the rest of the boat is off to Weight Watchers. Need to shed about 150kg i understand

if this is even half true the entire design team should be giving back their pay for the last two years.

 

The orange demon on my left shoulder shouts "Bullshit. Anyone who knew these to be facts wouldn't post them on SAAC. And just how likely is it overweight hulls were shipped from Sweden?"

 

But the blue demon on the right whispers "Hold on. Something is stopping Artemis from splashing."

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Would beefing up the beams to stop it breaking again necessitate weight loss elsewhere?

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Doing a lot of work on their main beam as I understand it while the rest of the boat is off to Weight Watchers. Need to shed about 150kg i understand

if this is even half true the entire design team should be giving back their pay for the last two years.

The orange demon on my left shoulder shouts "Bullshit. Anyone who knew these to be facts wouldn't post them on SAAC. And just how likely is it overweight hulls were shipped from Sweden?"

 

But the blue demon on the right whispers "Hold on. Something is stopping Artemis from splashing."

Look at the original source quote it's one of the primary kiwi trolls. Dalton feeds them well.

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Would beefing up the beams to stop it breaking again necessitate weight loss elsewhere?

 

It might.

 

5.10 The sailing weight shall be between 5720 kg and 5920 kg.

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Look at the original source quote it's one of the primary kiwi trolls. Dalton feeds them well.

Useful contribution. How's life under *your* bridge? 8-)

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Would beefing up the beams to stop it breaking again necessitate weight loss elsewhere?

 

It might.

 

5.10 The sailing weight shall be between 5720 kg and 5920 kg.

So with a weight variable of only 200kg to play with, adding weight anywhere will most likely involve the slimming tools elsewhere...

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A patch up job on a load bearing carbon beam!! No thanks! That sounds like deja vu :unsure:

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A patch up job on a load bearing carbon beam!! No thanks! That sounds like deja vu :unsure:

Maybe they've replaced it with something made from plutonium by the antichrist...

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All this is going to make for an interesting book some day.

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All this is going to make for an interesting book some day.

Hutch will be going over the draft with a ghost writer round about now...

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Another AC72 crewman just quit, this is getting repulsive...

Link?

or just another rumour

If you are on the inside and the writing is on the wall then you make your choices. Stay and hope you can get it together or perhaps take another opportunity before it goes away.

So its just a rumour then!

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So is AR raising the white flag yet?

 

How's that law suit you were claiming Barts wife had started ?

 

Found a link for that its been over a week now ?

 

Hey Maxi remember its none of our business right? This is a personal matter quote the rabid AR defenders. As such I am not concerned with familial matters, only whether AR has folded up the tent yet.

 

Its obvious AR will go quietly into the night, surely disappointing for the fans and sponsors.

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Would beefing up the beams to stop it breaking again necessitate weight loss elsewhere?

 

It might.

 

5.10 The sailing weight shall be between 5720 kg and 5920 kg.

Does that consider the 100 kg increase per RD Recommendation 1.5?

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Would beefing up the beams to stop it breaking again necessitate weight loss elsewhere?

 

It might.

 

5.10 The sailing weight shall be between 5720 kg and 5920 kg.

Does that consider the 100 kg increase per RD Recommendation 1.5?

 

Yes I think so. It's from the May 24th revision and 5.10 has a change bar.

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