sarah0809

Artemis?

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Those rudders of AR look easy enough to bring into max beam, I have a chainsaw perfect for the task :D

But seriously, I think they are likely to get dispensation as the only team likely to be affected by the decision is LR and they are unlikely to feel threatened.

 

I still think that having a team racing any boat and pressing hard when they have only had a week or so sailing it is just plain dangerous.

 

I think, LR will not agree to the dispensation.

 

Really? Whats your thinking on this one?

I thought they only reason they would refuse is if they felt threatened by AR, which can't possibly be the case IMO.

 

Do you think they are worried about AR T-Boning them in the semis?

I also think LR will not consent to AR getting special treatment here, if for no other reason than they would look like huge hypocrites about the sanctity of the rules after their "I'm locking my door and not going out to play" stunt

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Those rudders of AR look easy enough to bring into max beam, I have a chainsaw perfect for the task :D

But seriously, I think they are likely to get dispensation as the only team likely to be affected by the decision is LR and they are unlikely to feel threatened.

 

I still think that having a team racing any boat and pressing hard when they have only had a week or so sailing it is just plain dangerous.

 

I think, LR will not agree to the dispensation.

 

Really? Whats your thinking on this one?

I thought they only reason they would refuse is if they felt threatened by AR, which can't possibly be the case IMO.

 

Do you think they are worried about AR T-Boning them in the semis?

They are worried about AR showing up in a G3 (or at least G2.5) boat while they are sailing G1.5 at best.

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Those rudders of AR look easy enough to bring into max beam, I have a chainsaw perfect for the task :D

But seriously, I think they are likely to get dispensation as the only team likely to be affected by the decision is LR and they are unlikely to feel threatened.

 

I still think that having a team racing any boat and pressing hard when they have only had a week or so sailing it is just plain dangerous.

 

I think, LR will not agree to the dispensation.

 

I share your concern. The mercurial Signor Bertelli is not at all impressed with PC and Artemis. With good reason. Plus, LR has the most to lose in the unlikely event that AR proves competitive. I'm guessing there will be some serious discussion and arm waving in the LR camp prior to whatever is decided.

 

The other potential sticking point is IM. The IJ laid out for him how he might, with the consent of all teams, sort out a compromise on any safety regulations that affect performance and then take that to the CG for ratification. He may have to eat a little humble pie. Good news is that in his reported comments so far he appears to be more amenable to a middle road. With its ruling the IJ has taken some of the safety burden off his shoulders. That should help,.

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The cross structure of AR2 appears pretty much the same as AR1. The king post is short compared with that of the other teams and, judging from videos of AR1, is low to the point where it will tend to drag in the water during maneuvers.

I am also surprised to see that the tiebars from the king post to the front beam still terminate midway along the beam... at the same failure point of AR1... considering the catastrophic failure of the beam in AR1 i would have expected a redesign... if you look at the arrangement of ETNZ and LR the tiebars terminate virtually at the beam to hull joint...

 

The inboard location of the ties is to match the inboard position of the back stays .. the bracing is also terminated inboard to deal with the compression arising from the back stay and king post tie .. there are no bending loads applied to the rear beam with this arrangement ..

 

I don't think the AR engineers are so incompetent that they would messed up such a simple system .

Seems to me the vertical component of the backstay load is still applying a bending load to the rear cross-beam. No (or very little) bending in the transverse plane, but still plenty of bending in the vertical plane...

 

Imagine .. if instead of terminating the back stay , king post tie and compression brace on the beam you attached it to a cable spanning between the hulls .. you would still have a stable structure and the cable definitely can not resist any bending loads .. similarly there are no bending loads when you attach the ties and stays to the beam instead of a cable .

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Those rudders of AR look easy enough to bring into max beam, I have a chainsaw perfect for the task :D

But seriously, I think they are likely to get dispensation as the only team likely to be affected by the decision is LR and they are unlikely to feel threatened.

 

I still think that having a team racing any boat and pressing hard [Gaucho Greg's edit: IN MAX 20knt WIND] when they have only had a week or so sailing it is just plain dangerous.

 

Remember the part I added to your post, above in red (I never do that, but thought it was a good illustration of where you are off in this case). AR sailed an AC72 around a bunch. They have a guy very well schooled in foiling at the helm. They have people very well practiced in trimming the wing. They have guys that have been grinding plenty, and that won't change much. You are SOOOOO over-reacting on this issue. Either they will take the water and look like a mess (at which point, we can all THEN call for them to step down), or they will go out there and look rusty, but have the ability to get around the course safely. They may not be pulling off smooth, foiling jybes, but they very likely, in the reduced wind limits, be able to get around safely.

 

Their crash was in less than 20 knots of wind!

However, the two things that they do have in their favour are:

 

1) Blue will be eliminated having clocked up less sailing time than Red (less fatigue on the structure), and

2) They will have beefed up Blue.

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Those rudders of AR look easy enough to bring into max beam, I have a chainsaw perfect for the task :D

But seriously, I think they are likely to get dispensation as the only team likely to be affected by the decision is LR and they are unlikely to feel threatened.

 

I still think that having a team racing any boat and pressing hard when they have only had a week or so sailing it is just plain dangerous.

 

I think, LR will not agree to the dispensation.

 

Really? Whats your thinking on this one?

I thought they only reason they would refuse is if they felt threatened by AR, which can't possibly be the case IMO.

 

Do you think they are worried about AR T-Boning them in the semis?

I also think LR will not consent to AR getting special treatment here, if for no other reason than they would look like huge hypocrites about the sanctity of the rules after their "I'm locking my door and not going out to play" stunt

 

I think LR flushed a fair amount of their credibility by sailing within the "no sail" recommended period post the AR crash.

However, on retrospect Rennie could be right. Bertelli doesn't seem overly balanced with most issues and LR/AR have certainly fired a LOT of salvos at each other recently.

 

PC will be hoping like hell that they don't get dispensation so that he has LR to blame for all his screw ups.

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Those rudders of AR look easy enough to bring into max beam, I have a chainsaw perfect for the task :D

But seriously, I think they are likely to get dispensation as the only team likely to be affected by the decision is LR and they are unlikely to feel threatened.

 

I still think that having a team racing any boat and pressing hard [Gaucho Greg's edit: IN MAX 20knt WIND] when they have only had a week or so sailing it is just plain dangerous.

 

Remember the part I added to your post, above in red (I never do that, but thought it was a good illustration of where you are off in this case). AR sailed an AC72 around a bunch. They have a guy very well schooled in foiling at the helm. They have people very well practiced in trimming the wing. They have guys that have been grinding plenty, and that won't change much. You are SOOOOO over-reacting on this issue. Either they will take the water and look like a mess (at which point, we can all THEN call for them to step down), or they will go out there and look rusty, but have the ability to get around the course safely. They may not be pulling off smooth, foiling jybes, but they very likely, in the reduced wind limits, be able to get around safely.

 

 

This is match racing. The start process to mark 1 are specifically designed to bring the boats into conflict. The ability to "get around the course safely" isn't the point. They need to be able to match race and they haven't had the time in the boat to do it, however talented the sailing team and however much preparation they have been doing in different boats and different classes.

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I think LR flushed a fair amount of their credibility by sailing within the "no sail" recommended period post the AR crash.

However, on retrospect Rennie could be right. Bertelli doesn't seem overly balanced with most issues and LR/AR have certainly fired a LOT of salvos at each other recently.

 

PC will be hoping like hell that they don't get dispensation so that he has LR to blame for all his screw ups.

 

Following the potty mouth of PC and his gripe against Dalts, I'm rather surprised that GD has offered PC dispensation.

In my view, dispensation should not be allowed. If he can't play with the big boys - move on.

It would be pretty embarrassing if he won the LVC and ended up in the finals.

Obviously it won't happen, it is a "just if....." situation.

If he cannot comply for the AC, he cannot comply with the LVC.

Allowing Artie to race in the LVC and not complying for the AC is such a bloody oxymoron.

Bit like "microsoft works" really.

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^

I don't understand why he is offering it either and also think that AR needs to do the right thing and withdraw.

However, apparently the politically correct thing is to allow to them to race no matter how prepared they are.

 

You know, the same reasoning behind setting a maximum possible score difference in kiddies rugby games before calling time.

So that nobody ever possibly feels like they're not a winner.

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Have just read in NZ Herald:

 

 

Also, the jury hearing is understood to have been told by Artemis sailing boss Paul Cayard that Team NZ's offer made the syndicate look like second-class citizens, though it is hard to think of a more second-class outcome than not getting the boat out of the shed and into the water in time for the Louis Vuitton semifinals - the earliest time Artemis have indicated they will be ready to sail.

"If they need that [dispensation] to make it to the start line, Paul Cayard might have a little bit of pride-swallowing to do," said Dalton. "I hope he takes this in the spirit in which it was made - a respectful offer from us to help a team under pressure and with a lot of guys on board whom we know to get on the water."

Even when Dalts offers an olive branch, Cayard snipes.

What a little snot.

Mind you, he is a second class citizen. It is good to look down on people like that :)

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^
Cayard is desperate to deflect attention away from the fact that he has fucked up in the biggest possible way.

Actually, perhaps I should say "a really big way" because the LVC aint over and there is still time for Cayard to work more of his "magic".

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Following the potty mouth of PC and his gripe against Dalts, I'm rather surprised that GD has offered PC dispensation.

 

Have you considered the following scenario?

 

1. AR doesn't sail in the RR at all (NO has said that's likely).

2. ETNZ wins the RR.

3. ETNZ opts to proceed directly to the LVC final (as is their right).

4. LR knocks out Artemis in the semis. ETNZ never has to sail against them at all.

 

A pretty likely outcome I'd say. So let's not get too carried away with the generosity of GD's dispensation, since it's largely at LR's expense.

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^

I don't understand why he is offering it either and also think that AR needs to do the right thing and withdraw.

However, apparently the politically correct thing is to allow to them to race no matter how prepared they are.

 

You know, the same reasoning behind setting a maximum possible score difference in kiddies rugby games before calling time.

So that nobody ever possibly feels like they're not a winner.

\

He's in teh entertainment busniess and ther's no show without PUnch

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^

I don't understand why he is offering it either and also think that AR needs to do the right thing and withdraw.

However, apparently the politically correct thing is to allow to them to race no matter how prepared they are.

 

You know, the same reasoning behind setting a maximum possible score difference in kiddies rugby games before calling time.

So that nobody ever possibly feels like they're not a winner.

\

He's in teh entertainment busniess and ther's no show without PUnch

 

No show without punch?

I think Artemis are a bit like Gerry Cooney, has a "punch" that couldn't break wind.

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new coat of arms for the cayard family?

 

r719766_5707796.jpg

 

gotta be space on big blue for 1 of these

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Following the potty mouth of PC and his gripe against Dalts, I'm rather surprised that GD has offered PC dispensation.

 

Have you considered the following scenario?

 

1. AR doesn't sail in the RR at all (NO has said that's likely).

2. ETNZ wins the RR.

3. ETNZ opts to proceed directly to the LVC final (as is their right).

4. LR knocks out Artemis in the semis. ETNZ never has to sail against them at all.

 

A pretty likely outcome I'd say. So let's not get too carried away with the generosity of GD's dispensation, since it's largely at LR's expense.

 

Agree that is the most likely scenario, but after all the shit Cayard has been spouting it would be tempting to let them slide into oblivion where they belong

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Those that suggest AR will be competitive are dreaming.

 

AR have done nothing right from day one - design, build, personnel, pr, legal - even their promo girls ranked last!

 

Even if they came out of the shed with a super boat 10 knots faster than LR and TNZ - they will still not win.

 

You don't win these races by watching things on youtube.

 

You have to be out on the course practicing day after day

 

AR will be an utter embarrassment on the water but let's hope they are not a safety issue

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Those that suggest AR will be competitive are dreaming.

 

AR have done nothing right from day one - design, build, personnel, pr, legal - even their promo girls ranked last!

 

Even if they came out of the shed with a super boat 10 knots faster than LR and TNZ - they will still not win.

 

You don't win these races by watching things on youtube.

 

You have to be out on the course practicing day after day

 

AR will be an utter embarrassment on the water but let's hope they are not a safety issue

 

Hey stop that!

In this new PC (Politically Correct or Paul Cayard - YouTube err I mean You Choose) America's Cup apparently everyone deserves a go, no matter how fucking hopeless they have been all along.

 

For this AC and every subsequent one, OR will retain the cup but all the challengers will receive a certificate of participation and a $10 Million voucher to "Toys R Us".

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AR have done nothing right from day one - design, build, personnel, pr, legal - even their promo girls ranked last!

Not strictly true.

I believe they did these things right:

Early wing on modified ORMA

Hired in LP & NO

AC45 foiler

Changing colour scheme to Swedish Royal Blue

 

Though in writing that, they all have either turned out badly or are late fixes for poor choices earlier :unsure:

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You don't win these races by watching things on youtube.

 

Actually, if you sail an athletic class that needs sequences of moves done fast and exactly right, then watching it being done correctly on video is really useful as part of the learning process. More useful than spending all day practising doing it wrong. That's all NO was saying.

 

As for AR doing nothing right, that's not really true. They've hired a hell of a sailing team, who seem to working together well. Too bad about the boats and the time management.

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AR will not be a 'danger' or any of that other hand-wringing whining. They are professional sailors that do have experience sailing a wing sailed cat. Their only issue will be how fast they can be, their gybes will not be as polished, along with other moves, but they will be no danger on the course.

 

And if that boat happens to be fast, they could pull-off an upset or two, but I do not think they will be dialed-in enough to win the LVC.

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AR will not be a 'danger' or any of that other hand-wringing whining. They are professional sailors that do have experience sailing a wing sailed cat. Their only issue will be how fast they can be, their gybes will not be as polished, along with other moves, but they will be no danger on the course.

 

And if that boat happens to be fast, they could pull-off an upset or two, but I do not think they will be dialed-in enough to win the LVC.

and this is why they must comply with the same rules as everyone else if they want to score any points

to race to modified class rules against fully compliant boats would be just like adm wanting a handicap advantage over or?

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Those that suggest AR will be competitive are dreaming.

 

AR have done nothing right from day one - design, build, personnel, pr, legal - even their promo girls ranked last!

 

Even if they came out of the shed with a super boat 10 knots faster than LR and TNZ - they will still not win.

 

You don't win these races by watching things on youtube.

 

You have to be out on the course practicing day after day

 

AR will be an utter embarrassment on the water but let's hope they are not a safety issue

 

Hey stop that!

In this new PC (Politically Correct or Paul Cayard - YouTube err I mean You Choose) America's Cup apparently everyone deserves a go, no matter how fucking hopeless they have been all along.

 

For this AC and every subsequent one, OR will retain the cup but all the challengers will receive a certificate of participation and a $10 Million voucher to "Toys R Us".

there is no second but there shall be a fourth? :)

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If LR does a DNF against TNZ in their first 2 boat meet - what are AR going to do - get lapped?

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Well it was pretty close, that they DNF. ETNZ ahead by 5 minutes or so.

 

Very poor showing by LR. Not much more of a spectacle than 1-boat 'racing'.

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If LR does a DNF against TNZ in their first 2 boat meet - what are AR going to do - get lapped?

 

Nah, remember that AR are likely to meet ETNZ in a race.

So, its a matter of how much LR will beat AR by not how much ETNZ will beat them by.

But, I think LR will probably beat AR by AT LEAST 5 mins, assuming AR can make it to the start line

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Well, it looks like LR are not going to support any dispensation for AR to use whichever rudders Cayard decides not to complain about. Can't say I disagree violently with LR's position: Cayard is finding out that running off his mouth has consequences...

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^Can't say I'm surprised. Cayard shouldn't have been so lippy to team Handbag.

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Ummm, PC has 7 days until Big Blue is splashed, will it be rudderless, just like the entire Artemissed campaign?

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Maybe the plan is for AR to float around the course on PCs ego?

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^Can't say I'm surprised. Cayard shouldn't have been so lippy to team Handbag.

la vendetta e un piatto che va mangiato freddo

 

revenge is a dish best served cold, very cold...

 

Next time he keeps the mouth shut.

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Don't forget guys. LR is the one shouting, stopping dispensation, sailing on non-sail days, etc. BECAUSE they work together with TNZ. They can block anything or try push anything, whereafter ETNZ can say; 'tut tut, that's a bit harsh' and come out of this as the 'good and sportsmanlike team'.

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Well, it looks like LR are not going to support any dispensation for AR to use whichever rudders Cayard decides not to complain about. Can't say I disagree violently with LR's position: Cayard is finding out that running off his mouth has consequences...

 

The Italian's approach may be best in the long term because it may force ACRM to sort out the mess they've created with the rudders. For example, if AR competes with class legal rudders and ACRM disqualifies them due to the so called "safety rules" then AR can request redress and they have an open and shut case - it's just a rerun of the previous protest.

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wonder if he flew to see bertelli

 

bowed, scraped apologised profusely

 

if that would get AR the dispensation they require

 

would he do that for the team?

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IP taking about losing his best mate brings a tear to the eye. Even PC comes across well.

 

JS needs a punch in the face. What a douche.

 

CNN Mainsail Video

Part 1: Looking back at America's Cup tragedy

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/international/2013/07/12/mainsail-andrew-simpson-death-a.cnn.html

 

(two more follow)

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Don't forget guys. LR is the one shouting, stopping dispensation, sailing on non-sail days, etc. BECAUSE they work together with TNZ. They can block anything or try push anything, whereafter ETNZ can say; 'tut tut, that's a bit harsh' and come out of this as the 'good and sportsmanlike team'.

That's far too complicated. It's much simpler. One of Artemis or LR is going to be last in the LVC. Odds are ETNZ is never going race Artemis. Of course ETNZ can afford to look generous. Of course LR is less inclined to be. No conspiracy theory is required.

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IP taking about losing his best mate brings a tear to the eye. Even PC comes across well.

 

JS needs a punch in the face. What a douche.

 

CNN Mainsail Video

Part 1: Looking back at America's Cup tragedy

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/international/2013/07/12/mainsail-andrew-simpson-death-a.cnn.html

 

(two more follow)

Agreed. Much though everyone loves to bitch about AR (and not all undeserved), I can't imagine how hard it's been for them to move past Bart's death.

 

IS and RC both came off a bit condescending and ruined the end of the film. Otherwise, very good summary.

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Maybe the plan is for AR to float around the course on PCs ego?

:D classic!

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I really feel for the AR sailors, support crew and their families.

 

I believe they're all quality seamen and good, honest people and can't imagine the personal sacrifices they've made to be here.

 

To be let down by poor management and questionable design is quite sad.

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Don't forget guys. LR is the one shouting, stopping dispensation, sailing on non-sail days, etc. BECAUSE they work together with TNZ. They can block anything or try push anything, whereafter ETNZ can say; 'tut tut, that's a bit harsh' and come out of this as the 'good and sportsmanlike team'.

That's far too complicated. It's much simpler. One of Artemis or LR is going to be last in the LVC. Odds are ETNZ is never going race Artemis. Of course ETNZ can afford to look generous. Of course LR is less inclined to be. No conspiracy theory is required.

 

Exactly, who needs a conspiracy when simple self interest gets the job done :)

LR are looking out for LR and they are prefectly free to do so, there is only one goal in the America's Cup and it's certainly not making sure Artemis can compete.

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Structural testing is done! In the photo you see a simulation of a single bow-down pitchpole. Look at the how the port bow deflect with the weights pulling on it compared to the starboard one.

 

Now the boat is turned downside up again and the whole team is working nonstop to get it out on the water as soon as possible.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151509567941087&set=a.181977236086.138108.167319026086&type=1&theater

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JS needs a punch in the face. What a douche.

 

 

CNN Mainsail Video

Part 1: Looking back at America's Cup tragedy

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/international/2013/07/12/mainsail-andrew-simpson-death-a.cnn.html

 

(two more follow)

Why? Pretty sure that was recorded just after the Oracle capsize, not the Artemis capsize.

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^ The next race is scheduled for Tuesday. Artemis Racing is scheduled to race against Luna Rossa, but it appears unlikely the Italian team will again race unopposed.

 

??

 

22nd they said she was likely to get wet.

 

Are they now saying LR will race unopposed tomorrow, (& ETNZ on Thursday presumably) but that AR will be race ready for their next scheduled meeting with LR on Saturday 20th (RR3 Race2)?

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^ The next race is scheduled for Tuesday. Artemis Racing is scheduled to race against Luna Rossa, but it appears unlikely the Italian team will again race unopposed.

 

??

 

22nd they said she was likely to get wet.

 

Are they now saying LR will race unopposed tomorrow, but that AR will be race ready for their next scheduled meeting on Saturday 20th (RR3 Race2)?

 

The article definitely implies that AR will race on Saturday. As I said, this seems highly unlikely.

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The article definitely implies that AR will race on Saturday.

 

Surely our safety conscious RD will have something to say about an AC72 turning up on the course with no practise time???????????????/

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Would it be in OR's interest for the RD to declare AR as being unsafe?

 

Why??

 

Because then the RD might have to justify why he considers Or to be safe!!!!

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The article definitely implies that AR will race on Saturday.

Surely our safety conscious RD will have something to say about an AC72 turning up on the course with no practise time???????????????/

There is certain irony to that.

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^

I don't understand why he is offering it either and also think that AR needs to do the right thing and withdraw.

However, apparently the politically correct thing is to allow to them to race no matter how prepared they are.

 

You know, the same reasoning behind setting a maximum possible score difference in kiddies rugby games before calling time.

So that nobody ever possibly feels like they're not a winner.

 

 

Shit, it is nothing like that. You have become absurd on this subject.

 

Again, why can't you and the others calling for them to withdraw now just hold your damned horses until they actually get out on the water and see how they handle the boat?

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Would it be in OR's interest for the RD to declare AR as being unsafe?

Nope. OR would lose their poodle's vote on rules matters.

 

 

^

I don't understand why he is offering it either and also think that AR needs to do the right thing and withdraw.

However, apparently the politically correct thing is to allow to them to race no matter how prepared they are.

 

You know, the same reasoning behind setting a maximum possible score difference in kiddies rugby games before calling time.

So that nobody ever possibly feels like they're not a winner.

 

 

Shit, it is nothing like that. You have become absurd on this subject.

 

Again, why can't you and the others calling for them to withdraw now just hold your damned horses until they actually get out on the water and see how they handle the boat?

Why? So they can endanger someone else?!?!

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Again, why can't you and the others calling for them to withdraw now just hold your damned horses until they actually get out on the water and see how they handle the boat?

 

How will we know??? They pretty much go straight into the arena. Amazing to consider that the RD will endorse that as safe and yet wanted to cancel the regatta for 'safety' rules that only affected half the fleet.

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Again, why can't you and the others calling for them to withdraw now just hold your damned horses until they actually get out on the water and see how they handle the boat?

 

How will we know??? They pretty much go straight into the arena. Amazing to consider that the RD will endorse that as safe and yet wanted to cancel the regatta for 'safety' rules that only affected half the fleet.

 

Because they (AR) sailed their 1st boat for a good number of days, they have sailed their foiling 45s a good number of days, and are professionals. If they go out and can control the boat, make bare-aways, make jybes, etc., then they should be allowed to race. If they get out there, and even in 23knts or less have to abort their bare-aways, lack control of their boat, etc., then you will have an argument.

 

Funny, so many of the same people that are saying AR should drop out are the same ones that bitch that there aren't more teams. Frankly, I would more likely trust AR's crew with their new boat and only a few days of practice over the lower classes of crews that might have raced on teams like GreenComm or China had they managed to show up with a big winged cat and many many more days of practice.

 

There is no rule that says a team has to be polished up and nailing their maneuvers. I believe the professionalism of the AR crew would be such that they would be rather conservative in the match race pre-start/start until they feel they have totally tuned up their performance and have the highest level of control of their boat. Maybe they won't be able to handle the beast, at which point, I will agree they should not go up against the other teams so that the other teams are not exposed to the hazard. But I will at least wait until we see some evidence that they should suspend their effort.

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If they go out and can control the boat, make bare-aways, make jybes, etc., then they should be allowed to race.

 

And who the fuck is making that judgement then?

 

Because according to PC they couldn't possibly be safe without the changes to the Class rules that IM tried to bludgeon through????

 

So who makes the safety call then???????

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How about them and the RD? They are professionals. Do you think they, having just lost one of their mates, is going to want to go out there and risk more? You can bet your ass those professionals will know better than anyone if they will be able to safely race, and will not be willing to risk more lives. How about giving them the fucking respect to make that call?

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How about them and the RD? They are professionals. Do you think they, having just lost one of their mates, is going to want to go out there and risk more? You can bet your ass those professionals will know better than anyone if they will be able to safely race, and will not be willing to risk more lives. How about giving them the fucking respect to make that call?

 

But PC said they couldn't be safe without the changes.

 

The RD has already shown he is not necessarily always on the ball with what is right and wrong.

 

So who the fuck???

 

PC? IM? The old lady that lived in a shoe??

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My interpretation of "hopes to be back out on the water by next weekend" is that they would be training rather than racing, but it's a pretty vague statement.

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^

I don't understand why he is offering it either and also think that AR needs to do the right thing and withdraw.

However, apparently the politically correct thing is to allow to them to race no matter how prepared they are.

 

You know, the same reasoning behind setting a maximum possible score difference in kiddies rugby games before calling time.

So that nobody ever possibly feels like they're not a winner.

 

 

Shit, it is nothing like that. You have become absurd on this subject.

 

Again, why can't you and the others calling for them to withdraw now just hold your damned horses until they actually get out on the water and see how they handle the boat?

 

Firstly, they missed the "cut" as was stipulated in the original protocol.

But they ammended the protocol so that they could stay in the game.

Secondly, the best predictor of future performance tends to be past performance, which would suggest that AR will continue to be as useless as they have been all along.

 

So how is my analogy wrong?

 

I feel as sorry for the team as anyone. I feel sorry for the piss poor design they were given and the pathetic leadership they have.

I also hope that TT fixes these two problems and keeps the team together for the next AC.

But as for this AC, their time has long since passed.

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^

I don't understand why he is offering it either and also think that AR needs to do the right thing and withdraw.

However, apparently the politically correct thing is to allow to them to race no matter how prepared they are.

 

You know, the same reasoning behind setting a maximum possible score difference in kiddies rugby games before calling time.

So that nobody ever possibly feels like they're not a winner.

 

 

Shit, it is nothing like that. You have become absurd on this subject.

 

Again, why can't you and the others calling for them to withdraw now just hold your damned horses until they actually get out on the water and see how they handle the boat?

 

Firstly, they missed the "cut" as was stipulated in the original protocol.

But they ammended the protocol so that they could stay in the game.

Secondly, the best predictor of future performance tends to be past performance, which would suggest that AR will continue to be as useless as they have been all along.

 

So how is my analogy wrong?

 

I feel as sorry for the team as anyone. I feel sorry for the piss poor design they were given and the pathetic leadership they have.

I also hope that TT fixes these two problems and keeps the team together for the next AC.

But as for this AC, their time has long since passed.

 

And AGAIN, why not wait to see how they do on the water. The teams agreed to rules that allowed AR to still be in it, so why not let it play out?

 

Do you not believe the AR crew capable of determining whether or not they can safely race?

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And AGAIN, why not wait to see how they do on the water.

Why?

 

Didn't PC state that Ar couldn't sail safely without the proposed class rule changes???

 

So if the team's main man is happy to sit his ass on the fence and state his case, why can't we?

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And AGAIN, why not wait to see how they do on the water.

Why?

 

Didn't PC state that Ar couldn't sail safely without the proposed class rule changes???

 

So if the team's main man is happy to sit his ass on the fence and state his case, why can't we?

 

I do not recall any comment from PC that they could not sail safely with the reduced wind speeds with his rule-compliant rudders. Do you? I clearly remember him stating that they could not sail if the length/area requirements were held but they could not take advantage of the assym/beam leniancy.

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By the way, I frankly don't care what PC has said on this matter as much as I do the crew. If the crew believes they can safely sail, then that is the standard I would go by. I would not choose to punish them for what PC has said in his desperation to get releaf to be able to race.

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By the way, I frankly don't care what PC has said on this matter as much as I do the crew. If the crew believes they can safely sail, then that is the standard I would go by. I would not choose to punish them for what PC has said in his desperation to get releaf to be able to race.

 

What if PC is coercing the crew to race. Grand Master Mindgames.

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By the way, I frankly don't care what PC has said on this matter as much as I do the crew. If the crew believes they can safely sail, then that is the standard I would go by. I would not choose to punish them for what PC has said in his desperation to get releaf to be able to race.

 

What if PC is coercing the crew to race. Grand Master Mindgames.

 

I hope you are joking, and will give you the respect that I believe you are.

 

These are adults.

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And AGAIN, why not wait to see how they do on the water. The teams agreed to rules that allowed AR to still be in it, so why not let it play out?

 

Do you not believe the AR crew capable of determining whether or not they can safely race?

 

As I said, the protocol has been modified so they are clearly entitled to race.

My issue is that the protocol should NOT have been modified to allow this.

I don't mind some leeway being given under extraordinary circumstances, but this is rediculous.

 

And NO, I do NOT believe they are capable of determining whether or not they can safely race.

They didn't pick up on the fact that their first boat was dangerous, what has really changed?

 

AR has some of the most amazingly talented sailors, including even PC.

However, the team itself is a pathological mess which is caused by piss poor leadership (yep, PC again).

The reality is that it doesn't matter how incredible the members of a team are if the team itself is dysfunctional.

It is this dysfunction that has caused the team to be plagued with problems in the past and will continue to cause the team to be plagued with problems in the future.

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Structural testing is done! In the photo you see a simulation of a single bow-down pitchpole. Look at the how the port bow deflect with the weights pulling on it compared to the starboard one.

 

Now the boat is turned downside up again and the whole team is working nonstop to get it out on the water as soon as possible.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151509567941087&set=a.181977236086.138108.167319026086&type=1&theater

I wonder if all the boats provided such data?

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^ Pretty obvious that AR's intention is to kick LR's ass, and then force ETNZ to further reveal their own ass measurements.

 

It has also got to be obvious that PC is a lying, sonofabitch, cheat who's only goal is to prevent GD from becoming CoR; because of how important that fantasy is too, in the glide path to the foregone conclusion, coming ETNZ victory.

 

Danger approaching, AR should get shut out! :)

 

Protecting 'sanctity' would be an excellent spin on that one. Sure beats backing mere 'safety' ..

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Don't forget guys. LR is the one shouting, stopping dispensation, sailing on non-sail days, etc. BECAUSE they work together with TNZ. They can block anything or try push anything, whereafter ETNZ can say; 'tut tut, that's a bit harsh' and come out of this as the 'good and sportsmanlike team'.

 

I think the reason LR won't agree is simple... competitive strategy and pride.

 

The pride point: They are so far out of the game that they feel the whole thing is hopeless. After the horizon job on Sunday, they feel "what is the point?" Why extend the agony? Even if they beat AR in the corresponding round, they would still be in another orbit and have to face TNZ for another drubbing. AND... they face the risk, small, but non zero, that AR could actually take some races on them making them look even more foolish. From a pride point of view, I don't see AR providing anything positive short of LR beating them by a similar margin that TNZ did them. Even that wouldn't 'taste' so good given their sob story.

 

The competitive point: If LR thinks they have a solution to their problems, they would like as much time as possible to prepare for the LVC final against TNZ. Racing AR would be some good practice, but at this point, they know they need CHANGES. Changes are not so easy to implement in racing mode. Crew work polishing happens racing, but basic changes in procedures or design don't happen well on the track. Hence, they are probably thinking that their best hope is to get rid of the AR races and try agains hope to change things appropriately to have a chance in the final.

 

Given their hopelessness in the first race, I'd be betting on the pride points.

 

As much as I like watching these boats, I do believe this is one of the basic weaknesses of such far out fast boats. The racing looks like it is going to be boring. This worry is primarily for the LVC.

 

For the AC itself, this possible delta in speed provides the suspense up to the day. But the series its self may too prove to be boring too, but the years of suspense kind of offset it.

 

And from a competitive balance point of view, in the mono era, the challenger series leveled the playing field. In the multi era, it may be ruining it by forcing the challengers to show their cards early. In future, the smart approach may be to sit out as much as possible as late as possible.

 

Not good TV for a backwards kind of way.

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And AGAIN, why not wait to see how they do on the water. The teams agreed to rules that allowed AR to still be in it, so why not let it play out?

 

Do you not believe the AR crew capable of determining whether or not they can safely race?

 

As I said, the protocol has been modified so they are clearly entitled to race.

My issue is that the protocol should NOT have been modified to allow this.

I don't mind some leeway being given under extraordinary circumstances, but this is rediculous.

 

And NO, I do NOT believe they are capable of determining whether or not they can safely race.

They didn't pick up on the fact that their first boat was dangerous, what has really changed?

 

AR has some of the most amazingly talented sailors, including even PC.

However, the team itself is a pathological mess which is caused by piss poor leadership (yep, PC again).

The reality is that it doesn't matter how incredible the members of a team are if the team itself is dysfunctional.

It is this dysfunction that has caused the team to be plagued with problems in the past and will continue to cause the team to be plagued with problems in the future.

 

Boat 1 had a faulty beam that broke 2 times. The new boat has a new beam, obviously with the weakness of the 1st boat's beam analyzed probably as much as any component of any AC boat has ever had studied. In fact, the whole boat, I would bet, has been tested for structural soundness more than any AC boat has ever been.

 

AR, as a team, was able to handle Boat 1 pretty well, I would say, considering. But Boat 2 will be totally different. I do believe the crew is fully capable of determining whether they can safely sail. In fact, there may be no more qualified human than Loick to determine that, and I would bet he will not be the slightest hesitant to call off the racing if he believes they can't tame the beast for the conditions that are to be raced.

 

The other teams had the opportunity to prevent any protocol changes, but they did adopt changes that were meant to improve safety, and have the impact to give AR a better chance to race. I would have had no problem had they not done so. And now, I would say that the true leeway that should be granted AR is that if they are to change any rule related to the rudders, they have to go all the way and allow for the team that developed according to the newer rules (all 37), or go back to no new rudder rules. Going with lower wind and all the other safety reg's appear to be mutually agreed upon.

 

Anyway, regardless, the teams went along with the new rules that gave AR this opportunity (and stop acting like it was ALL done for AR, LR had also requested much of it for themselves). Why shouldn't we give AR the same respect as the other teams and see how they do when the go out for a sail before calling for them to quit.

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^ Pretty obvious that AR's intention is to kick LR's ass, and then force ETNZ to further reveal their own ass measurements.

 

It has also got to be obvious that PC is a lying, sonofabitch, cheat who's only goal is to prevent GD from becoming CoR; because of how important that fantasy is too, in the glide path to the foregone conclusion, coming ETNZ victory.

 

Danger approaching, AR should get shut out! :)

 

Protecting 'sanctity' would be an excellent spin on that one. Sure beats backing mere 'safety' ..

How can it ARs intention to kick LRs ass when they clearly state in the clip they will still be learning basic manoevres and trying to get those right.

 

You are living in a dream world.

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Well it was pretty close, that they DNF. ETNZ ahead by 5 minutes or so.

 

Very poor showing by LR. Not much more of a spectacle than 1-boat 'racing'.

 

LR was simply gauging ETNZ. They did some dumb tactical things (like tacking in tide) to stay in phase. It is likely that ETNZ when doing trial races hasn't shown LR the whole package and LR foil development looks very different, they just wanted to gauge apple for apple performance. You will find the next race to be much much closer

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If the crew believes they can safely sail, then that is the standard I would go by.

I don't know. One of the recent pieces interviewing IP made it apparent that getting AR on the racetrack is part of his grieving process for Simpson. That's touching and understandable. Whether it makes for good judgement is another question.

 

As I've posted before, I'm conflicted about AR racing. Head says no, heart says yes.

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If the crew believes they can safely sail, then that is the standard I would go by.

I don't know. One of the recent pieces interviewing IP made it apparent that getting AR on the racetrack is part of his grieving process for Simpson. That's touching and understandable. Whether it makes for good judgement is another question.

 

As I've posted before, I'm conflicted about AR racing. Head says no, heart says yes.

been there,

his friendship with his mate deserves him the chance to take another spin,

he will know if the boat and he are fine...

'specially with driving a machine like that, its not a solo sport..

good on him!

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swept back front beam so the lifting foils generate lift centred on the main-beam

 

but without having to be at the main-beam / hull join

 

this boat shows not an ounce of imagination :D

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Well, I certainly hope they can pull something out of the hat and do some sailing. I don't really care how good they are, but I think it's important that they continue if for no other reason than to honour Bart's memory.

 

And I hope they not only sail, but sail well and surprise us all.

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swept back forward front beam ... :P

 

 

Hull lines pear shaped already?

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Well, I certainly hope they can pull something out of the hat and do some sailing. I don't really care how good they are, but I think it's important that they continue if for no other reason than to honour Bart's memory.

 

And I hope they not only sail, but sail well and surprise us all.

just how silly of a count are you?

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Well, I certainly hope they can pull something out of the hat and do some sailing. I don't really care how good they are, but I think it's important that they continue if for no other reason than to honour Bart's memory.

 

And I hope they not only sail, but sail well and surprise us all.

just how silly of a count are you?

 

Silly enough to get totally hooked on this bloody forum!

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... I don't really care how good they are, ...

 

And I hope they not only sail, but sail well and surprise us all.

Don't worry, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

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