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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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CharlieCobra

Old warhorse in the shop for a makeover...

108 posts in this topic

So, after the Seasmoke deal fell through, we spent a rough three months without a paying boat in the shop. Granted, I had a couple of ours for the boys to get minimal hours on but still had to lay off most of the crew. That changed three weeks ago when two of the boys and I went to Seattle to deliver "Anomoly", a modified Santa Cruz 50, back up to the yard for some extensive cosmetic work.

 

We had a great ride on a boat where everything worked, unusual for my deliveries. We sailed through an Orca pod and enjoyed cold sunshine and dolphins for most of the trip up the Inlet. We averaged 10 knots for the trip at 2400 RPM due to a favorable tide for 90% of the trip.

 

When it came time to haul out, pulling the stick went well but we found the boat was too tall for the trailer. Having a 9.5' draft wasn't the issue. Having a keel that was 7.5' from foot to the hull was. So, the boat set for a bit over a week while myself and the Colony Wharf guys figured out something. Figure out something we did and the boat came out of the water and into the shop on Dec 27th.

 

010.jpg

 

 

012.jpg

 

 

IMG_20111228_111153.jpg

 

 

 

She's in for complete paint (hull and house), along with new non-skid. On getting her into the shop, it was decided to do a blister job and barrier coat as well. Here are a few shot of the bottom thus far.

 

016.jpg

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018.jpg

 

 

While those patches look horrendous, when ya measure them, most are less than 1/32", as shown by the straight edge on the deepest i could find.

 

020.jpg

 

 

 

 

Pulling the hardware took three full days with four guys. Yes, she's an IOR winch farm...

 

 

Bagged and tagged:

 

001.jpg

 

 

Looking rather empty up there:

 

011-1.jpg

 

 

More as we progress....

 

 

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Excuse my ignorance. With that much blistering (osmosis I presume) wouldn't it have been better to shave the whole hull, rather than leave all the bits where osmosis hasn't yet become obvious but will likely show up next year?

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I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

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I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

 

"owner's call" - I'd be wanting that in writing in case it comes back to bite.

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After further discussion, it's been pretty much decided to peel the Gelcoat once we've hit all of the visible blisters. Blastng was considered but the lack of depth control bothers me on such a thin, cored hull like the SC-50.

 

 

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Looking forward to seeing her all done and back on the water. I've always liked that boat. Are they changing the color scheme? Dark blue with gold stripes by chance??? LOL

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Nope, a slightly different white and the black stripes. While I'd love to a custom paint on it, TOG is a bit more conservative than that...;)

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Done a few bottom jobs and use soda blasting.The accuracy these guys have is amazing.Can take of the antifoul in one run then the gelcoat on the next.Then you can see exactly what you are dealing with.Much quicker than a grinder.

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After further discussion, it's been pretty much decided to peel the Gelcoat once we've hit all of the visible blisters. Blastng was considered but the lack of depth control bothers me on such a thin, cored hull like the SC-50.

 

Good call.

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1326094331[/url]' post='3538699']

Done a few bottom jobs and use soda blasting.The accuracy these guys have is amazing.Can take of the antifoul in one run then the gelcoat on the next.Then you can see exactly what you are dealing with.Much quicker than a grinder.

 

I'd have to agree. I've had a couple of boats soda blasted and it's a matter of choosing which layer of vapor barrier to stop at.

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Glad you guys got some work! I heard some major horror stories from the P.O. of that Baba 40 I was considering. Lucky I have a more practical wife!

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I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

 

My understanding of blisters is that all you need is water doesn't matter if its fresh or not. I've seen boats kept in Lake Washington full of blisters primarily due to a lack of proper barrier paint and the boat being a smaller cheaper hull made with cheaper materials.

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I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

 

My understanding of blisters is that all you need is water doesn't matter if its fresh or not. I've seen boats kept in Lake Washington full of blisters primarily due to a lack of proper barrier paint and the boat being a smaller cheaper hull made with cheaper materials.

 

 

I've read so much different stuff on blisters and causes over the years that it's all turned into soup. But the osmotic pressure in freshwater is actually higher than in salt water (remember the experiment in biology class with the osmotic membrane separating salt and fresh water?).

 

As for that sc50, always wanted one of those. If only I had the financial resources. Guess I'm stuck with the little sister...

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For those that missed the thieving thread, we sart back with the new tools today...B)

 

Any progress catchin' the assmunches that caused you to need new tools?

 

Fuggers - I've got a special hell in mind for assholes like that. (google Centralia PA)

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Pretty sure they were ex subs we used last year when we were so slammed. They knew how to avoid the cameras, last time.... Nothing yet.

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here on Lake Michigan we have plenty of fresh water boats with blisters. In addition to that, they are only in the water 5 months a year and high and dry the rest.

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For those that missed the thieving thread, we sart back with the new tools today...B)

 

Do you realise that you just told the bad guys that you now have a lot of brand new tools for them to come back & steal?

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They'll need a torch and all night to get them this time...

 

Besides, the folks I think stole the tools likely can't spell Sailing Anarchy much less find it...:lol:

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isn't it aweful how in these situations you almost always have a good idea who it was? Pisses me off

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And to be careful who you hire... Bad egg may solve a short term problem, but the hangover is never worth it.

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It's been a while so I figured it was time for an update. The peeling went good as did the epoxy work, if long. It takes a lot to fair that stuff right.

 

 

009-2.jpg

 

 

and

 

 

007-1.jpg

 

 

and

 

 

029.jpg

 

 

That's just to show the progression. Of course, there was some deam to deal with.

 

 

033.jpg

 

 

 

After I got the core cleaned out.

 

 

035.jpg

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There are more but a couple Id like to show are the preliminary cardboard mockup of a sugar scoop he is thinking about. Trust me, this is a very crude mockup. The real thing would be tooled up and laid up off the boat and then glassed in.

 

 

054.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

051.jpg

 

 

No, it won't have creases, wrinkles and such....

 

 

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There are more but a couple Id like to show are the preliminary cardboard mockup of a sugar scoop he is thinking about. Trust me, this is a very crude mockup. The real thing would be tooled up and laid up off the boat and then glassed in.

 

 

054.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

051.jpg

 

 

No, it won't have creases, wrinkles and such....

 

 

 

Keep the tape though.:P

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:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

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That would be cool except that Anomaly had her transom opened by The Wizard and her geometry is different. She's flatter underneath, which causes problems and they moved her backstay tangs lower, which cost me more clearance. I was looking at pics of Hula Girl and can see that there are big differences. Hula Girl would have been easy to do. The issue is what to do with the thru hulls and exhaust. I simply don't have the clearances to run them out the back of my scoop because of the angles made by Bill Lee's mods..

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:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

 

 

Yeah, go ahead and get it for me. Every little bit helps...:D

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:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

Surfer Girl was a pretty boat. (I always had a soft spot for the SC 50.) What's the significance of Flaca?

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Another source for stern scoops on SC 50's is Dencho Marine in Long Beach, CA. They did Horizon's transom. Beautiful job.

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Sugar scoops make great urinals on distance races. I've contemplated elmers-gluing a urinal cake to the side more than a few times.

 

Looking good so far. How does ToG feel about the progress?

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That would be cool except that Anomaly had her transom opened by The Wizard and her geometry is different. She's flatter underneath, which causes problems and they moved her backstay tangs lower, which cost me more clearance. I was looking at pics of Hula Girl and can see that there are big differences. Hula Girl would have been easy to do. The issue is what to do with the thru hulls and exhaust. I simply don't have the clearances to run them out the back of my scoop because of the angles made by Bill Lee's mods..

 

Emergency rudder attachment as well...

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Sugar scoops make great urinals on distance races. I've contemplated elmers-gluing a urinal cake to the side more than a few times.

 

Looking good so far. How does ToG feel about the progress?

 

 

I'll leave that for him to say but he seems pleased.

 

That would be cool except that Anomaly had her transom opened by The Wizard and her geometry is different. She's flatter underneath, which causes problems and they moved her backstay tangs lower, which cost me more clearance. I was looking at pics of Hula Girl and can see that there are big differences. Hula Girl would have been easy to do. The issue is what to do with the thru hulls and exhaust. I simply don't have the clearances to run them out the back of my scoop because of the angles made by Bill Lee's mods..

 

Emergency rudder attachment as well...

 

 

Yeah, he wants that gone along with the runner tracks.

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Well since it’s been asked, let me say I’m happy with how Charlie and the boys are handling the project, and Charlie definitely makes every effort to do it right and make it look good too.

 

The initial haul out was, as he pointed out, a “surprise” but we ended up amicably agreeing to split the added costs.

 

The bottom peel and restoration is the biggest part of the job and it was not originally planned. But once the situation was defined, it became the only proper solution. Finding the tool that he did turned out to be a great result. Of course, there is significantly more labor than originally expected, but again, accepted.

 

Unfortunately the thefts lost him a week, but no back charges to me even though boat is in the yard and he pays them a monthly for his shed/tent.

 

Charlie learned a bit about ULDB’s and balsa cored hulls and how they “sound,” but a quick visit by a surveyor clarified that there was only the one wet/delam that he showed in this thread in the entire hull. Quite the testament to Bill Lee and the original lay up (1984)

 

As we approach the completion of the major work the topsides are prepped and final finish and fairing on the bottom is near, the costs have stayed in line with the original estimates with no significant surprises.

 

I am hopeful that as the end nears the restoration of all the parts (winches, hardware, windows etc) will go well and I won’t see a dramatic uptick in costs.

 

Because the labor has been close to estimates, I was encouraged enough to consider adding the scoop. Still in the planning stage and awaiting an outside fabrication estimate, but I’d sure like to do it.

 

Peeker and I are ready to get her (the boat, idiots) back on the water this spring.

 

TOG

 

 

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:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

Surfer Girl was a pretty boat. (I always had a soft spot for the SC 50.) What's the significance of Flaca?

 

the owner was born & raised in Mexico, you always pick a mistress that's skinnier than your wife and since flaca means "skinny girl", it's a common term of endearment for their women. Also, when he went to pick her up there was another really beamy 50' something at the docks next to her, his first comment was "what a skinny girl", it was destined from there.

He's gone through the boat bow to stern, she's gorgeous now !

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:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

 

 

Yeah, go ahead and get it for me. Every little bit helps...:D

 

sorry Charlie, will have to be next week, off to prep boat (not Flaca but Rapid Transit) for the SD to PV race, we start on Friday

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Well since it's been asked, let me say I'm happy with how Charlie and the boys are handling the project, and Charlie definitely makes every effort to do it right and make it look good too.

 

The initial haul out was, as he pointed out, a "surprise" but we ended up amicably agreeing to split the added costs.

 

The bottom peel and restoration is the biggest part of the job and it was not originally planned. But once the situation was defined, it became the only proper solution. Finding the tool that he did turned out to be a great result. Of course, there is significantly more labor than originally expected, but again, accepted.

 

Unfortunately the thefts lost him a week, but no back charges to me even though boat is in the yard and he pays them a monthly for his shed/tent.

 

Charlie learned a bit about ULDB's and balsa cored hulls and how they "sound," but a quick visit by a surveyor clarified that there was only the one wet/delam that he showed in this thread in the entire hull. Quite the testament to Bill Lee and the original lay up (1984)

 

As we approach the completion of the major work the topsides are prepped and final finish and fairing on the bottom is near, the costs have stayed in line with the original estimates with no significant surprises.

 

I am hopeful that as the end nears the restoration of all the parts (winches, hardware, windows etc) will go well and I won't see a dramatic uptick in costs.

 

Because the labor has been close to estimates, I was encouraged enough to consider adding the scoop. Still in the planning stage and awaiting an outside fabrication estimate, but I'd sure like to do it.

 

Peeker and I are ready to get her (the boat, idiots) back on the water this spring.

 

TOG

 

 

 

Thanks for that Mate, appreciate it.

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How much longer do you plan to keep the boat at CW? I want to stop by to see it.

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TOG - go for the scoop and make it a swimstep --- you know my boat pretty well, and our stern platform is one of the best features on the boat. Hot/cold shower, near waterline level step from a dinghy....it's all good, so go for it!

 

I think it will give your boat a nice graceful stern as well.

 

 

WWing

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We'll be doing the final mock-up, which also serves as the outer mold for the hull extension part this week (early).

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Ok, we've progressed across the board with the boat. The bottom is pretty much ready for barrier coat, once the scioop is tied in. Here are some shots of the scoop work:

 

 

 

Scoop1.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

Scoop2.jpg

 

 

 

We did change the curvature on the scoop today so it doesn't look so fat. More to come.

 

 

 

Oh, another shot of the hull at present.

 

 

 

peel-4.jpg

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That scoop looks really nice.

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Is that a clear epoxy over the hull or does the peeler leave it looking that smooth?

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Two coats of clear epoxy with a lot of fairing during the process, probably 200 hrs worth. One more fairing pass to do once the scoop is tied into the hull.

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Two coats of clear epoxy with a lot of fairing during the process, probably 200 hrs worth. One more fairing pass to do once the scoop is tied into the hull.

 

 

Awesome work, Charlie.

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Y'know Charlie, I have to say after working on Soñadora for a year and a half, I've developed a great appreciation for the kind of work you do. A buddy asked me yesterday if I thought I could do it for a living. Weird question, but the truth is I've really enjoyed the work! Not saying I'm any good at it, but I've had a blast and I'm only 1/2 done.

 

Maybe one of these days I'll open up Grand Portage Yachts up on the north shore just so I can fuck around with working on boats.

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Yeah, after getting laid off in '09 and hearing from everybody up here for two years that I oughta be doing this for a living, I finally did. We've come a looooong way in just under two years Mate. Of course, I had many years of experience in other fields to bring to the table that matched this work nicely.

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Hi Charlie,

 

I stopped by on Friday to have a look see. You were not about.

 

So if your camera sees some random guy in a blue coat looking at TOG's boat, I wasn't casing the shop, just the boat. B)

 

Hull looks great! Having done a full blister peel myself, I have a regrettable appreciation for your project.

 

How is the scoop attached to the hull? All I could see from the floor was the plywood mold.

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It'll be tabbed in upper and lower with woven ties, as well as another tie in along the hull bottom when the upper work is done and the mold removed. Just the lower section as it is will support 300 Lbs. without flex or issue. He'll tear up the rest of the boat before that scoop fails.

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It'll be tabbed in upper and lower with woven ties, as well as another tie in along the hull bottom when the upper work is done and the mold removed. Just the lower section as it is will support 300 Lbs. without flex or issue. He'll tear up the rest of the boat before that scoop fails.

 

Spent a couple of nights sleeping with "old warhorse"? First, CC's crew stays at it. Oh, to be that young. As you can see from the pics, ALL of an SC50's (Soon to be SC52) hull is OVERHEAD. My arms ache just thinking about.

 

Charlie gave me a tour of the progress. Don't worry about that scoop. Between the bottom bond to the outside skin and the stiffener sections dropping off the existing transom, that scoop ain't going anywhere. Charlie's crew is sure getting a load of experience with primo epoxy systems.

 

A great life extension for a great boat. Can't wait to see it out on the water.

 

Good to see you, OH Joy, Tayana 37, and Anamoly.

 

Good Luck - Left my tool stash in the west building.

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Never did see pictures of the boat finished - let's see some of the old girl with her new look!

 

 

WWing

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Wrapping things up. Scoop work was way slow. I had to take it over myself or it would be June before it was done.

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You will, when it is...

 

bump

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You will, when it is...

 

bump

White Wing...it is so close...so very close. TOG and I saw her on friday, and the scoop looked fabulous. Looks like the boat was born with it, no discernible lines where it was added. Starting to get antsy to get her out on the water and go for a good sail.

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I hear ya Peeker.. We're peddling as fast as the processes will allow us to. If ya thought she looked good then, just wait until this weekend if y'all come up.:D

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this thread sucks ;)

 

It's like the chick with the nice tits who almost takes her top off.

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Tell me about it. Anomaly apparently likes our shop. I'm trying to convince her otherwise...:blink:

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Bacon grease will get her unstuck!

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I finally got past the issue with the hull paint. We abandoned all of the touch up techniques, took it back down and I sprayed the entire hull solo. That's a lot of fucking boat to spray by oneself. The light doesn't show it well but she looks like glass.

 

 

 

019-1.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

025.jpg

 

 

 

Here's a look at the bottom:

 

 

 

007-2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it was a little dusty. We'll wipe it down for the rollout.

 

More to come...

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Do the owner a favor and give him a short length of hose that's a tight enough fit to cram into the engine exhaust to use on deliveries. I've spent a gazillion hours back in the day scrubbing diesel exhaust residue off the sugar scoop on an SC70.

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No shots of the sugar scoop? Your killing us!

 

 

Tomorrow...

 

Now your starting to sound like my wife :P

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Ok, TOG took a shot of the scoop before my repaint so I'll post it up here for you guys.

 

 

 

Earlyscoop.jpg

 

 

 

Just keep in mind, she looks much better today.

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Thank you. Nicely done, hard to believe the hull wasn't molded that way. A little different than I was picturing.

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Looks great!

 

Can't wait to see it from a couple different angles.Thanks for the pics.

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Come on Charlie, post some pics and show everyone what a wonderful job you did!

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It is simple not fair that you don't have a Chesapeake shop.

 

I know we could keep you busy.

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Peeker, I'll get some more tomorrow after we clean up topside and post them up. I hate posting up unfinished work. :D

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Well Charlie, I will tell you that I was terribly excited to see her out in the sunlight yesterday, I even climbed the terrifying scaffolding to peek into the cockpit. And your son was very pleasant and polite...good job there.

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She does look good out there. Can't wait to see her in the water where she belongs.

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It is simple not fair that you don't have a Chesapeake shop.

 

I know we could keep you busy.

 

 

Maybe someday. We have to get this one established solidly first. Having a year's worth the work lined up goes a long way toward that.:D

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Here we go. Anomaly was launched today. What a long assed day it was.

 

 

 

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Fantastic! Amazing what hundreds of hours of sanding will do!

Brings back good memories sailing on those boats when they had their own start in Seattle.

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I bet the owner is very pleased.

 

I was looking for an architect to work on my house recently. All with great recommendations from friends, all talked a good game, all similar prices, one had some great before and after pictures of past projects he’d done. He got the work.

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Looks really great - nice work CC! I can't wait to see her "live" - maybe this weekend. TOG you should be sooooo happy!

 

WWing

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Chris did a nice job on the shaping, especially considering it was his first real glass work. That rolling bevel is within one degree at any point on both sides of the slope.

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Charlie - you and your team do wonderful work. It is really great to see her cleaned up and ready to party again. Thanks for sharing. Pat

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You did a beautiful job on that boat. I'm seriously impressed.

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Its nice to see the word Craftsman in this lowest cost production world still means something.

 

You should be proud.

 

We are going to be in town this weekend, any chance we might get a look?

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She sailed for Friday Harbor this morning, enroute to a regatta this weekend down south I believe. Nothing finished to look at right now. Just boats in process at the moment.

 

Anarchist are always welcome at Baggett and Sons.

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I guess we did something right cause TOG and Peeker were fast and won this weekend. :D

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Sure is purdy, CC. Is that Kiwigrip on the non-skid? And why the hell are you too far away for me to use for a few projects, dammit?

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That teak pad under the bow roller would piss me off every time I looked at it.... Unless there is a operational reason of course.

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