• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

CharlieCobra

Old warhorse in the shop for a makeover...

Recommended Posts

So, after the Seasmoke deal fell through, we spent a rough three months without a paying boat in the shop. Granted, I had a couple of ours for the boys to get minimal hours on but still had to lay off most of the crew. That changed three weeks ago when two of the boys and I went to Seattle to deliver "Anomoly", a modified Santa Cruz 50, back up to the yard for some extensive cosmetic work.

 

We had a great ride on a boat where everything worked, unusual for my deliveries. We sailed through an Orca pod and enjoyed cold sunshine and dolphins for most of the trip up the Inlet. We averaged 10 knots for the trip at 2400 RPM due to a favorable tide for 90% of the trip.

 

When it came time to haul out, pulling the stick went well but we found the boat was too tall for the trailer. Having a 9.5' draft wasn't the issue. Having a keel that was 7.5' from foot to the hull was. So, the boat set for a bit over a week while myself and the Colony Wharf guys figured out something. Figure out something we did and the boat came out of the water and into the shop on Dec 27th.

 

010.jpg

 

 

012.jpg

 

 

IMG_20111228_111153.jpg

 

 

 

She's in for complete paint (hull and house), along with new non-skid. On getting her into the shop, it was decided to do a blister job and barrier coat as well. Here are a few shot of the bottom thus far.

 

016.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

018.jpg

 

 

While those patches look horrendous, when ya measure them, most are less than 1/32", as shown by the straight edge on the deepest i could find.

 

020.jpg

 

 

 

 

Pulling the hardware took three full days with four guys. Yes, she's an IOR winch farm...

 

 

Bagged and tagged:

 

001.jpg

 

 

Looking rather empty up there:

 

011-1.jpg

 

 

More as we progress....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excuse my ignorance. With that much blistering (osmosis I presume) wouldn't it have been better to shave the whole hull, rather than leave all the bits where osmosis hasn't yet become obvious but will likely show up next year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

 

"owner's call" - I'd be wanting that in writing in case it comes back to bite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After further discussion, it's been pretty much decided to peel the Gelcoat once we've hit all of the visible blisters. Blastng was considered but the lack of depth control bothers me on such a thin, cored hull like the SC-50.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking forward to seeing her all done and back on the water. I've always liked that boat. Are they changing the color scheme? Dark blue with gold stripes by chance??? LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Done a few bottom jobs and use soda blasting.The accuracy these guys have is amazing.Can take of the antifoul in one run then the gelcoat on the next.Then you can see exactly what you are dealing with.Much quicker than a grinder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After further discussion, it's been pretty much decided to peel the Gelcoat once we've hit all of the visible blisters. Blastng was considered but the lack of depth control bothers me on such a thin, cored hull like the SC-50.

 

Good call.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1326094331[/url]' post='3538699']

Done a few bottom jobs and use soda blasting.The accuracy these guys have is amazing.Can take of the antifoul in one run then the gelcoat on the next.Then you can see exactly what you are dealing with.Much quicker than a grinder.

 

I'd have to agree. I've had a couple of boats soda blasted and it's a matter of choosing which layer of vapor barrier to stop at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad you guys got some work! I heard some major horror stories from the P.O. of that Baba 40 I was considering. Lucky I have a more practical wife!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

 

My understanding of blisters is that all you need is water doesn't matter if its fresh or not. I've seen boats kept in Lake Washington full of blisters primarily due to a lack of proper barrier paint and the boat being a smaller cheaper hull made with cheaper materials.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rather shave it but it's the owner's call. Considering she's primarily a fresh water boat (Lake Washington), these came from her earlier life racing in salt water. There is the chance that new, undiscovered ones might pop up.

 

My understanding of blisters is that all you need is water doesn't matter if its fresh or not. I've seen boats kept in Lake Washington full of blisters primarily due to a lack of proper barrier paint and the boat being a smaller cheaper hull made with cheaper materials.

 

 

I've read so much different stuff on blisters and causes over the years that it's all turned into soup. But the osmotic pressure in freshwater is actually higher than in salt water (remember the experiment in biology class with the osmotic membrane separating salt and fresh water?).

 

As for that sc50, always wanted one of those. If only I had the financial resources. Guess I'm stuck with the little sister...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here on Lake Michigan we have plenty of fresh water boats with blisters. In addition to that, they are only in the water 5 months a year and high and dry the rest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that missed the thieving thread, we sart back with the new tools today...B)

 

Do you realise that you just told the bad guys that you now have a lot of brand new tools for them to come back & steal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been a while so I figured it was time for an update. The peeling went good as did the epoxy work, if long. It takes a lot to fair that stuff right.

 

 

009-2.jpg

 

 

and

 

 

007-1.jpg

 

 

and

 

 

029.jpg

 

 

That's just to show the progression. Of course, there was some deam to deal with.

 

 

033.jpg

 

 

 

After I got the core cleaned out.

 

 

035.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are more but a couple Id like to show are the preliminary cardboard mockup of a sugar scoop he is thinking about. Trust me, this is a very crude mockup. The real thing would be tooled up and laid up off the boat and then glassed in.

 

 

054.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

051.jpg

 

 

No, it won't have creases, wrinkles and such....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are more but a couple Id like to show are the preliminary cardboard mockup of a sugar scoop he is thinking about. Trust me, this is a very crude mockup. The real thing would be tooled up and laid up off the boat and then glassed in.

 

 

054.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

051.jpg

 

 

No, it won't have creases, wrinkles and such....

 

 

 

Keep the tape though.:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be cool except that Anomaly had her transom opened by The Wizard and her geometry is different. She's flatter underneath, which causes problems and they moved her backstay tangs lower, which cost me more clearance. I was looking at pics of Hula Girl and can see that there are big differences. Hula Girl would have been easy to do. The issue is what to do with the thru hulls and exhaust. I simply don't have the clearances to run them out the back of my scoop because of the angles made by Bill Lee's mods..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

 

 

Yeah, go ahead and get it for me. Every little bit helps...:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

Surfer Girl was a pretty boat. (I always had a soft spot for the SC 50.) What's the significance of Flaca?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another source for stern scoops on SC 50's is Dencho Marine in Long Beach, CA. They did Horizon's transom. Beautiful job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sugar scoops make great urinals on distance races. I've contemplated elmers-gluing a urinal cake to the side more than a few times.

 

Looking good so far. How does ToG feel about the progress?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be cool except that Anomaly had her transom opened by The Wizard and her geometry is different. She's flatter underneath, which causes problems and they moved her backstay tangs lower, which cost me more clearance. I was looking at pics of Hula Girl and can see that there are big differences. Hula Girl would have been easy to do. The issue is what to do with the thru hulls and exhaust. I simply don't have the clearances to run them out the back of my scoop because of the angles made by Bill Lee's mods..

 

Emergency rudder attachment as well...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sugar scoops make great urinals on distance races. I've contemplated elmers-gluing a urinal cake to the side more than a few times.

 

Looking good so far. How does ToG feel about the progress?

 

 

I'll leave that for him to say but he seems pleased.

 

That would be cool except that Anomaly had her transom opened by The Wizard and her geometry is different. She's flatter underneath, which causes problems and they moved her backstay tangs lower, which cost me more clearance. I was looking at pics of Hula Girl and can see that there are big differences. Hula Girl would have been easy to do. The issue is what to do with the thru hulls and exhaust. I simply don't have the clearances to run them out the back of my scoop because of the angles made by Bill Lee's mods..

 

Emergency rudder attachment as well...

 

 

Yeah, he wants that gone along with the runner tracks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since it’s been asked, let me say I’m happy with how Charlie and the boys are handling the project, and Charlie definitely makes every effort to do it right and make it look good too.

 

The initial haul out was, as he pointed out, a “surprise” but we ended up amicably agreeing to split the added costs.

 

The bottom peel and restoration is the biggest part of the job and it was not originally planned. But once the situation was defined, it became the only proper solution. Finding the tool that he did turned out to be a great result. Of course, there is significantly more labor than originally expected, but again, accepted.

 

Unfortunately the thefts lost him a week, but no back charges to me even though boat is in the yard and he pays them a monthly for his shed/tent.

 

Charlie learned a bit about ULDB’s and balsa cored hulls and how they “sound,” but a quick visit by a surveyor clarified that there was only the one wet/delam that he showed in this thread in the entire hull. Quite the testament to Bill Lee and the original lay up (1984)

 

As we approach the completion of the major work the topsides are prepped and final finish and fairing on the bottom is near, the costs have stayed in line with the original estimates with no significant surprises.

 

I am hopeful that as the end nears the restoration of all the parts (winches, hardware, windows etc) will go well and I won’t see a dramatic uptick in costs.

 

Because the labor has been close to estimates, I was encouraged enough to consider adding the scoop. Still in the planning stage and awaiting an outside fabrication estimate, but I’d sure like to do it.

 

Peeker and I are ready to get her (the boat, idiots) back on the water this spring.

 

TOG

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

Surfer Girl was a pretty boat. (I always had a soft spot for the SC 50.) What's the significance of Flaca?

 

the owner was born & raised in Mexico, you always pick a mistress that's skinnier than your wife and since flaca means "skinny girl", it's a common term of endearment for their women. Also, when he went to pick her up there was another really beamy 50' something at the docks next to her, his first comment was "what a skinny girl", it was destined from there.

He's gone through the boat bow to stern, she's gorgeous now !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol: Yeah, it's real crude. We'll be messing with it today, if I can find some more cardboard....:D

if you need any pics or dimensions I can measure our's up (Flaca-ex Surfer Girl)

 

 

 

 

Yeah, go ahead and get it for me. Every little bit helps...:D

 

sorry Charlie, will have to be next week, off to prep boat (not Flaca but Rapid Transit) for the SD to PV race, we start on Friday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well since it's been asked, let me say I'm happy with how Charlie and the boys are handling the project, and Charlie definitely makes every effort to do it right and make it look good too.

 

The initial haul out was, as he pointed out, a "surprise" but we ended up amicably agreeing to split the added costs.

 

The bottom peel and restoration is the biggest part of the job and it was not originally planned. But once the situation was defined, it became the only proper solution. Finding the tool that he did turned out to be a great result. Of course, there is significantly more labor than originally expected, but again, accepted.

 

Unfortunately the thefts lost him a week, but no back charges to me even though boat is in the yard and he pays them a monthly for his shed/tent.

 

Charlie learned a bit about ULDB's and balsa cored hulls and how they "sound," but a quick visit by a surveyor clarified that there was only the one wet/delam that he showed in this thread in the entire hull. Quite the testament to Bill Lee and the original lay up (1984)

 

As we approach the completion of the major work the topsides are prepped and final finish and fairing on the bottom is near, the costs have stayed in line with the original estimates with no significant surprises.

 

I am hopeful that as the end nears the restoration of all the parts (winches, hardware, windows etc) will go well and I won't see a dramatic uptick in costs.

 

Because the labor has been close to estimates, I was encouraged enough to consider adding the scoop. Still in the planning stage and awaiting an outside fabrication estimate, but I'd sure like to do it.

 

Peeker and I are ready to get her (the boat, idiots) back on the water this spring.

 

TOG

 

 

 

Thanks for that Mate, appreciate it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TOG - go for the scoop and make it a swimstep --- you know my boat pretty well, and our stern platform is one of the best features on the boat. Hot/cold shower, near waterline level step from a dinghy....it's all good, so go for it!

 

I think it will give your boat a nice graceful stern as well.

 

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, we've progressed across the board with the boat. The bottom is pretty much ready for barrier coat, once the scioop is tied in. Here are some shots of the scoop work:

 

 

 

Scoop1.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

Scoop2.jpg

 

 

 

We did change the curvature on the scoop today so it doesn't look so fat. More to come.

 

 

 

Oh, another shot of the hull at present.

 

 

 

peel-4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that a clear epoxy over the hull or does the peeler leave it looking that smooth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two coats of clear epoxy with a lot of fairing during the process, probably 200 hrs worth. One more fairing pass to do once the scoop is tied into the hull.

 

 

Awesome work, Charlie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Y'know Charlie, I have to say after working on Soñadora for a year and a half, I've developed a great appreciation for the kind of work you do. A buddy asked me yesterday if I thought I could do it for a living. Weird question, but the truth is I've really enjoyed the work! Not saying I'm any good at it, but I've had a blast and I'm only 1/2 done.

 

Maybe one of these days I'll open up Grand Portage Yachts up on the north shore just so I can fuck around with working on boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, after getting laid off in '09 and hearing from everybody up here for two years that I oughta be doing this for a living, I finally did. We've come a looooong way in just under two years Mate. Of course, I had many years of experience in other fields to bring to the table that matched this work nicely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Charlie,

 

I stopped by on Friday to have a look see. You were not about.

 

So if your camera sees some random guy in a blue coat looking at TOG's boat, I wasn't casing the shop, just the boat. B)

 

Hull looks great! Having done a full blister peel myself, I have a regrettable appreciation for your project.

 

How is the scoop attached to the hull? All I could see from the floor was the plywood mold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll be tabbed in upper and lower with woven ties, as well as another tie in along the hull bottom when the upper work is done and the mold removed. Just the lower section as it is will support 300 Lbs. without flex or issue. He'll tear up the rest of the boat before that scoop fails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll be tabbed in upper and lower with woven ties, as well as another tie in along the hull bottom when the upper work is done and the mold removed. Just the lower section as it is will support 300 Lbs. without flex or issue. He'll tear up the rest of the boat before that scoop fails.

 

Spent a couple of nights sleeping with "old warhorse"? First, CC's crew stays at it. Oh, to be that young. As you can see from the pics, ALL of an SC50's (Soon to be SC52) hull is OVERHEAD. My arms ache just thinking about.

 

Charlie gave me a tour of the progress. Don't worry about that scoop. Between the bottom bond to the outside skin and the stiffener sections dropping off the existing transom, that scoop ain't going anywhere. Charlie's crew is sure getting a load of experience with primo epoxy systems.

 

A great life extension for a great boat. Can't wait to see it out on the water.

 

Good to see you, OH Joy, Tayana 37, and Anamoly.

 

Good Luck - Left my tool stash in the west building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never did see pictures of the boat finished - let's see some of the old girl with her new look!

 

 

WWing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will, when it is...

 

bump

White Wing...it is so close...so very close. TOG and I saw her on friday, and the scoop looked fabulous. Looks like the boat was born with it, no discernible lines where it was added. Starting to get antsy to get her out on the water and go for a good sail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally got past the issue with the hull paint. We abandoned all of the touch up techniques, took it back down and I sprayed the entire hull solo. That's a lot of fucking boat to spray by oneself. The light doesn't show it well but she looks like glass.

 

 

 

019-1.jpg

 

 

 

and

 

 

025.jpg

 

 

 

Here's a look at the bottom:

 

 

 

007-2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it was a little dusty. We'll wipe it down for the rollout.

 

More to come...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do the owner a favor and give him a short length of hose that's a tight enough fit to cram into the engine exhaust to use on deliveries. I've spent a gazillion hours back in the day scrubbing diesel exhaust residue off the sugar scoop on an SC70.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks great!

 

Can't wait to see it from a couple different angles.Thanks for the pics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come on Charlie, post some pics and show everyone what a wonderful job you did!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Charlie, I will tell you that I was terribly excited to see her out in the sunlight yesterday, I even climbed the terrifying scaffolding to peek into the cockpit. And your son was very pleasant and polite...good job there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is simple not fair that you don't have a Chesapeake shop.

 

I know we could keep you busy.

 

 

Maybe someday. We have to get this one established solidly first. Having a year's worth the work lined up goes a long way toward that.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites