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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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MR.CLEAN

Murray's Law

258 posts in this topic

murray's law

 

He's got a year and change under his belt now as the guy with the hardest job in sailing, and later this week, straight-talking AC34 Director Iain Murray will sit down with Mr. Clean to share what's next for the Cup in yet another great Sailing Anarchy Innerview.

 

We're proud that our readers come up with the best questions, it's one of the reasons that SA leads the world in sailing interviews – so jump into the thread and ask your own! Title take-off shouts out to one of NY hardcore's pioneering bands.

 

UPDATE: Richard Worth, ACEA Chairman, just signed on to the interview. It'll be the two of them on camera, with as voice-only (I know a few of you have wished for that!!)

 

So ask your questions for either guy, and if they are specific to the man, tell me which one you're askin'.

 

Thanks for the great ones so far.

Murray_Iain_01h.jpg

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Why in match racing are the boats given so little time (up to 2 minutes) to engage pre-start?

 

Placing a mark only 20-30 seconds in the race gives a huge advantage to the boat to first round it. Surely all the history of racing shows that upwind starts are more equitable and would result in fewer processional races?

 

If the cost of shipping boats to the southern hemisphere is prohibitive, does that not undermine the whole concept of a "world series"?

 

Clearly this isn't the easiest time to launch this radically reformed AC and protocol and plans have been understandably changed as the difficulties facing teams in gaining sponsors have become clear. In retrospect, given the economic situation, what would you and/or GGYC have done differently?

 

How important do you think the number of LVC teams is to the city of SF and its return on investment?

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The AC45 course layouts thus far seemed designed to make chance a large factor, which added excitement. If well behind, teams could take the opposite route from the leader and if luck went their way, they could overcome huge gaps and take the lead in a single leg. It made for exciting racing and gave the underdog a real chance in every race.

 

In the LV Cup the races will be fewer and the stakes higher. Will the courses be laid out for "opposite" strategy to have good chance of success as we've seen in the ACWS, or more towards straightforward duels where the faster boat and team should almost always win?

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What is the minimum number of AC72s getting built that you would consider the event to be a 'success'.

 

Given (whatever that number is) if we should run into catastrophic failure by either the defender or (LVC winning) challenger will the Americas cup be won by default?

 

If the competitors requested longer races, and larger courses would ACAlphabet consider that or is Media Friendly racing the priority?

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If Ellison has been willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on boat development and the best broadcast production possible, why has he not also been willing to both advertise more and pass up venue fees in this first couple of years in order to secure the absolute best port cities (and been willing to ship to the Southern Hemisphere), and a set schedule, that could help get the exposure, gain a bigger audience, and possibly help the bubble teams secure commercial sponsors to give the AC a bigger profile?

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Lots of people look back on 1987 as a high water mark for the AC, some point to '84. Will we be looking back on AC34 as another high water mark in the Americas Cup in terms of innovative technology and the racing?

 

Follow on from Dogwatch question 3: What's the realistic time scale for the AC45 to become financially self sustaining?

 

What will happen to the ACWS should Elison and Oracle loose the next AC/before that happens? Is there enough momentum for it to go alone or do you think Larry will be prepared to pick up the tab as COR to keep the show on the road?

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Valencia:

Are there plans in the works for any AC45 sailing in Valencia, ahead of Naples, or is only Artemis going to be active there?

 

Naples:

How many teams and how many boats are you expecting in Naples?

Will any teams be new ones?

Are you confident Naples can provide the necessary facilities?

 

AC45 Numbers:

What AC45 hull number are you up to?

Do you foresee more being ordered or is this the end of the production line?

 

4M Wing extensions:

What has the feedback been so far from the testing in Auckland?

 

San Francisco 2013:

For AC45 teams that do not make it into the AC72's, will they be keen to extend ACWS style racing into August/SF?

Is there a plan for a 'Junior boat'?

 

Larry:

Is Larry generally optimistic with the progress to this point?

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Follow-up to my earlier questions, what kind of effort is going to be made to promote the ACWS and the AC in 2012 and 2013? TV spots? During what types of events/shows? Print media? Internet? Other?

 

 

 

Anectdote: My brothers, now bogged down by kids and their business, but typically the preferred audience demographic for sponsors, and once big catamaran sailors from Santa Cruz. They were not even aware the ACWS was going on and available to watch on YouTube during the events. Those would seem to be the perfect target audience, and if they don't even know it is available, how can the organizers hope the show to be a commercial success?

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Is the AC about product and placement or about sport?

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Is the AC about product and placement or about sport?

 

You can ask that about any major sport. If you want to have sports to watch, enter business. If you want to go sailing, play tennis at your local court, or play in a Parks & Rec pickup basketball game, not so much. What's the point? Same for sailing, go get in your boat and sail if you don't want to talk about product or business. But if you want to talk about the AC, you are going to have to deal with product/business.

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Is the AC about product and placement or about sport?

 

You can ask that about any major sport. If you want to have sports to watch, enter business. If you want to go sailing, play tennis at your local court, or play in a Parks & Rec pickup basketball game, not so much. What's the point? Same for sailing, go get in your boat and sail if you don't want to talk about product or business. But if you want to talk about the AC, you are going to have to deal with product/business.

 

This is an open invitation to ask IM a few questions mate not to have your question answered by a OYRC drone. Shooo Troll.

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Follow-up to my earlier questions, what kind of effort is going to be made to promote the ACWS and the AC in 2012 and 2013? TV spots? During what types of events/shows? Print media? Internet? Other?

 

 

 

Anectdote: My brothers, now bogged down by kids and their business, but typically the preferred audience demographic for sponsors, and once big catamaran sailors from Santa Cruz. They were not even aware the ACWS was going on and available to watch on YouTube during the events. Those would seem to be the perfect target audience, and if they don't even know it is available, how can the organizers hope the show to be a commercial success?

 

This is what you said in the other thread...

It is unfair to bring this up unless you also admit that no other AC cycle has provided the teams even a 10th the exposure that this AC cycle has given / will give the teams. There may be more expenses, but you can bet your ass that Emirates, Camper, Nestle, Puma, Corum, etc. appreciate what they are already getting, and likely much more over the course of 2012 and the first half of 2013. The "Acts" were a joke as far as exposure was concerned.

 

So the teams and sponsers are getting all this exposure but your cat sailing brothers haven't heard of the world super league of the world...strange that because I have friends who race every week who know nothing about the russ and paul show ...

Oh.. and just because you never hear anything about the Acts, Medcup or Extreme sailing in the US doesn't mean they aren't getting exposure in the rest of the world...

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Where is Dixie? What about a repeat of the only question that stopped Ben to think? You know the one :)

 

Lets learn something about the human being here. What does he love to do when it's not sailing related?

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^ Agreed. Seems to me that Iain had enjoyed a comfortable lifestyle for some years in the Brisbane area and so the move to SF must be quite a change.

 

IM, do you hope to race in SF? Do you mostly live there now? Like it? Any surprises?

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The ACWS series:

Do teams find participation in the ACWS a net positive? Will that change moving forward for those teams who build AC72's?

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The ACWS series:

Do teams find participation in the ACWS a net positive? Will that change moving forward for those teams who build AC72's?

ask the pope if he thinks his religion is a net positive :rolleyes:

 

what does IM think about the obvious and eyecatching ueberspinning of some on the interwebs, is it helping any or just plain silly ?

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^ Who else is being interviewed?

 

We can all take his answer with a grain of salt but the question gets tossed around here so much it seems a good one to get his perspective on.

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^ Who else is being interviewed?

 

We can all take his answer with a grain of salt but the question gets tossed around here so much it seems a good one to get his perspective on.

naaah, it's all about having your name on top, on a roll, are we ? B)

 

how viable is the AC72 still ?

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Has there been any consideration to changing the rule to allow for stored energy so as to assist in wing/sail control?

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Richard Worth, ACEA Chairman, just signed on to the interview. It'll be the two of them on camera, with as voice-only (I know a few of you have wished for that!!)

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During the first 136 The America's Cup thrived with owners and syndicates who got by without sponsorship exposure. It looks like the 34th America's Cup will be competed for by owners with a higher net worth than the companies sponsoring them. With the exception of Team NZL, all top challengers really don't need the sponsors to pay the bills. The same applies to the defender. Has this ever been a point of discussion among the men who could afford a cup campaign without the current sponsorship exposure.

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QUESTIONS TO RICHARD WORTH

- Craig Thompson has recently been fired. But Richard Worth was his boss and he's now taking his position. Why does he think he'll be able to deliver a better job than Thompson? And wasn't he ultimately responsible for Thompson's actions?

- What is he getting paid?

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The America's Cup is the premier Match Racing event on this planet. For the 34th Cup, fleet racing is a dominant factor in the challenger pre-rounds. Why is there such an emphasis on a sailing discipline which is so entirely different from the discipline in which the finals will be sailed?

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Questions:

 

1)What has been the best, most effective methods discovered/used to gauge the success and failure of the rules and policies that have been implemented to date?

 

2) Are three fully fledged challengers, and one defender enough to fulfill AC34's model?

 

3) What specific incentives have been utilized to entice the existing challengers participation?

 

4) Are the incentives employed consistently, or are some teams receiving special help?

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For the 34th Cup, fleet racing is a dominant factor in the challenger pre-rounds.

 

What is a challenger pre-round?

 

Forgive me for not knowing, but isn't the LVC primarily match racing?

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4M Wing extensions:

What has the feedback been so far from the testing in Auckland?

Enlarging on Stinger's question, what have you learned about the acceptable max wind strength for extensions? Is it likely we'll see extensions as standard, but forbidden if breeze is forecast over a certain limit, say 15 knots?

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For the 34th Cup, fleet racing is a dominant factor in the challenger pre-rounds.

 

What is a challenger pre-round?

 

Forgive me for not knowing, but isn't the LVC primarily match racing?

 

You are correct, the LV is has a TINY bit of fleet racing, basically just to open up the action on the fist couple of days. But when it comes down to it, the fleet racing will not have anything to do with who advances.

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For Richard Worth. How many AC45 regattas will there be in the second season? How advanced are your negotiations with venues? When do you expect to make the first announcement? When will you finalize and announce the full circuit?

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4M Wing extensions:

What has the feedback been so far from the testing in Auckland?

Enlarging on Stinger's question, what have you learned about the acceptable max wind strength for extensions? Is it likely we'll see extensions as standard, but forbidden if breeze is forecast over a certain limit, say 15 knots?

 

I was in on the conf call this week and asked just that - IM said they'd had it out in Auckland in 17 knots with no problems, and were surprised at the new rig's comfort range. But I'll probably ask again for the interview.

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4M Wing extensions:

What has the feedback been so far from the testing in Auckland?

Enlarging on Stinger's question, what have you learned about the acceptable max wind strength for extensions? Is it likely we'll see extensions as standard, but forbidden if breeze is forecast over a certain limit, say 15 knots?

 

I was in on the conf call this week and asked just that - IM said they'd had it out in Auckland in 17 knots with no problems, and were surprised at the new rig's comfort range. But I'll probably ask again for the interview.

 

Yep! Understand they have been tooling around in the mid-teens. More interested in what limits they'll set for its use and how they'll apply them.

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Dixie here. Thanks for missing me, Estar.

 

Y'all know I just plain like Iain Murray, and I think we all appreciate his straight talk and direct responses.

 

The question I asked him that gave him pause was what Brad Butterworth was up to (this was last January, 2011).

 

I would like to hear more on what I've heard on the street:

 

Will there be any AC45 set up and staging in Alameda? I hear the area is being reviewed and investigated. Are other areas being considered?

 

What is the status of the build out in San Francisco?

 

Defenders Series - If this is still set out as available time in the race schedule, who will race it? If there are no other candidates in the hopper, will it be Oracle v. Oracle? Now that could be fun.

 

What opportunities and locations are you looking at for getting kids on the 45s? Who is managing this? What is the timing of it?

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Based on the number of challengers, losing VO and his team, world financial/sponsorship conditions, and how the AC World Series has progressed so far (including the events already held and the open venues/dates that have not filled), was it too great of a step to take in totally re-vamping the America's Cup, coming out of the legal fiasco of AC33?

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each, sailing for months on end 3 miles off shore from now/poverty-racked Valencia, with a tedious 3 year lead up of thoroughly Alinghi-dominated 'Acts' that nobody ever heard of or cared about, in venues almost nobody could even place, and with not even sound allowed off the boats, and with not even any live TV anywhere in the US all the way until the LV final??

 

Why not? Are you absolutely sure it's not 'Too great of a step'?

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Here's a couple off the top of my head for Richard Worth.

 

Do you understand that when American's are watching American's do something, they generally want to hear an American talk about it on TV? So why did you do a segment on the 25th Anniversary of an American winning back the America's Cup for an American Yacht Club with British voice over talent?

 

 

 

Why do you hire so many non-American's for jobs within ACEA when the Louis Vuitton and America's Cups are going to be held in America? Why should ACEA get visas for non-American's for these jobs when there are perfectly capable American's for the job? Will you commit to having 80% of ACEA employees be American's?

 

 

 

Last year you said we were going to get a better "racing product". This year, what will you do to give us a better "executive product" so that the litany of mistakes ACEA made last year is not repeated this year?

 

 

 

What specifically are you going to do to engage the broader audience of American sailors that you have failed to reach? Is ACEA even the right group to do this, or should that initiative come from Golden Gate YC? Do you even know what you did not do that you could have easily done?

 

 

 

Given your track record of overpromising and under-delivering, why should we believe anything you say now?

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Ian, if we are not going to see anymore than a 3 boat 72' AC this time around, how about postponing the jump to the 72's for the next AC following and sailing this whole event in the 45's? Seems to me this may solve almost all of the cost, logistics, competitor. attendance and

sponsor number problems in one hit and also allow all of the good work done so far on the broardcast and coverage on the 45's to be finely honed for the AC in the 45's!

 

Second question, how the fuck are you going to film the 72's at speed on the water unless by camera drones.?

 

Third question, do you regret not going for MOD 70's? Cheers and good luck, I'm going to be there anyway.

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Well you guys sure aren't going to give me cream puffs, are ya.

 

Keep 'em coming. We are on for Friday morningish.

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Well you asked...

 

I had a lengthy one-on-one with him in SD and got most of my questions answered, but thanks for the opportunity.

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No prob. if you have anything that might've popped up afterwards (i.e. 'i wish i'd have asked him...'), I'd appreciate you PM'ing it over.

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1. On one view, there has been a trend toward minimalising human error and effort in recent AC events, and making it all about the boats. Perhaps it has ever been thus anyway.

 

Anyway, what is the ideal proportion on the water between human effort and smarts and the technology in AC racing? What could be done to further this balance, or is the Deed of Gift the issue?

 

2. How do you decide when exactly its time to bear away and drop early? Will this ever be relevant in AC matches?

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Apart from minor factors like the world economy, what does Murray believe to be the major hurdle stopping the minor teams raising the cash needed to build a 72?

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Well you guys sure aren't going to give me cream puffs, are ya.

 

Keep 'em coming. We are on for Friday morningish.

 

If Worth can't handle these questions, then he is the wrong guy for this job.

 

There is really only one question from one guy that matters. Larry to Worth: Where is the value you promised me for the money I fronted for this whole grand scheme of yours?

 

If things were going so well, then why were so many people fired/laid off/contracts not renewed...whatever in recent months?

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No prob. if you have anything that might've popped up afterwards (i.e. 'i wish i'd have asked him...'), I'd appreciate you PM'ing it over.

Thanks, again I appreciate the opportunity.

 

My questions were answered, most of which are probably not suitable for a public airing given the issues of what was taking place in SD at the time. If I think of anything I'll send it to you.

 

 

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One for IM

 

We have appreciated the honesty and directness of his approach. However, time and again, he says one thing and then the "suits" at ACEA try to spin it another. For instance, the comment about there only being 3 challengers seems to have given ACEA a heart attack. How does he, a straight talking, no nonsence, no bullshitting Aussie feel about these suits trying to spin what he says.

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UPDATE: Richard Worth, ACEA Chairman, just signed on to the interview.

 

So he think IM needs adult supervision. That's a pity, I think you'd have got more out of IM alone.

 

I'm thinking about questions for RW but here's one for starters. Are you aware that the use of an F1 flag for finishers instead of the traditional gun has many sailing fans incandescent with fury? It seems to symbolise a needless trampling over tradition and tradition is a large part of what might be described as the brand value of the AC. Where do you think the balance lies between appealing to sailors and non-sailors?

 

Here's another. We've seen some large claimed YouTube viewer figures for the ACWS yet, aside from two "crash" compilations, YouTube itself is showing figures ranging from a few hundreds to low tens of thousands. Can you explain the discrepancy?

 

And another. There's a perception that Plymouth was a success in exposing the ACWS but San Diego seemed to attract little local interest. Can you comment? What has been learned from this contrast?

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During the first 136 The America's Cup thrived with owners and syndicates who got by without sponsorship exposure. It looks like the 34th America's Cup will be competed for by owners with a higher net worth than the companies sponsoring them. With the exception of Team NZL, all top challengers really don't need the sponsors to pay the bills. The same applies to the defender. Has this ever been a point of discussion among the men who could afford a cup campaign without the current sponsorship exposure.

 

Now that really is an interesting question.The "need" to commercialise the Cup is spoken of by LE and TT as a self-evident truth but is it?

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each, sailing for months on end 3 miles off shore from now/poverty-racked Valencia, with a tedious 3 year lead up of thoroughly Alinghi-dominated 'Acts' that nobody ever heard of or cared about, in venues almost nobody could even place, and with not even sound allowed off the boats, and with not even any live TV anywhere in the US all the way until the LV final??

 

Why not? Are you absolutely sure it's not 'Too great of a step'?

 

Stingray, you are incredibly full of shit. You did not like 32AC, so be it. But that doesn't allow you to claim things so wrong.

 

Just to try to increase your minimal AC culture, the Acts were much more followed than you think, and definitely more than the ACWS. Web traffic could prove it. You claim the venues could not be placed by anyone, be aware that ACXX tried to go to Trappani (but they refused to pay 5 millions), tried to go to Marseilles (but they refused to pay 5 millions) and tried to go to Valencia (but they refused to pay 5 millions).

 

So if you are uncultivated and don't know where to place these cities and Malmoe don't think everyone is like you.

 

When it comes to TV in the US, you are correct, but let me know what TV the ACWS got? And not only in the US?

 

Finally for sound on boats, sure it was poor. Funny that the team who forbid all initiatives was BMW Oracle Racing.

 

 

Stingray, yes, there is a world beyond the USA. And many people appreciate it.

 

QUESTION FOR BOTH

 

What is the real involvement of Russel Coutts in your work? Direct or indirect (via Stephen Barclay for example)

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UPDATE: Richard Worth, ACEA Chairman, just signed on to the interview.

 

So he think IM needs adult supervision. That's a pity, I think you'd have got more out of IM alone.

 

I'm thinking about questions for RW but here's one for starters. Are you aware that the use of an F1 flag for finishers instead of the traditional gun has many sailing fans incandescent with fury? It seems to symbolise a needless trampling over tradition and tradition is a large part of what might be described as the brand value of the AC. Where do you think the balance lies between appealing to sailors and non-sailors?

 

Here's another. We've seen some large claimed YouTube viewer figures for the ACWS yet, aside from two "crash" compilations, YouTube itself is showing figures ranging from a few hundreds to low tens of thousands. Can you explain the discrepancy?

 

And another. There's a perception that Plymouth was a success in exposing the ACWS but San Diego seemed to attract little local interest. Can you comment? What has been learned from this contrast?

There's no discrepancy, at least if you look at the channel summary, which records live views as well as recorded clip views.

 

Did they still have that checkered (chequered) flag at SD?

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No prob. if you have anything that might've popped up afterwards (i.e. 'i wish i'd have asked him...'), I'd appreciate you PM'ing it over.

Thanks, again I appreciate the opportunity.

 

My questions were answered, most of which are probably not suitable for a public airing given the issues of what was taking place in SD at the time. If I think of anything I'll send it to you.

 

 

 

laugh.gif

 

the sw soiler -- investigations reporter for oryc

 

laugh.gif

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each...

Stingray, you are incredibly full of shit. You did not like 32AC, so be it. But that doesn't allow you to claim things so wrong.

$50 says that Stingray liked AC32. $100 says Stingray will like AC34 more than AC33. And he loved AC33.

 

His question went right over your head. IM would/will love that question.

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each...

Stingray, you are incredibly full of shit. You did not like 32AC, so be it. But that doesn't allow you to claim things so wrong.

$50 says that Stingray liked AC32. $100 says Stingray will like AC34 more than AC33. And he loved AC33.

 

His question went right over your head. IM would/will love that question.

 

Question: AC management had and still have the attitude "All previous AC events were boring, in slow old boats" Does IM think this has alienated longstanding AC fans and put off sponsors by junking the very history that gives the AC value?

 

How is AC planning to win back the AC's loyal following, a lot of whom are Flintstones like himself.

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each...

Stingray, you are incredibly full of shit. You did not like 32AC, so be it. But that doesn't allow you to claim things so wrong.

$50 says that Stingray liked AC32. $100 says Stingray will like AC34 more than AC33. And he loved AC33.

 

His question went right over your head. IM would/will love that question.

 

PS in unrelated matters: is that guy Stingray still on the Oracle payroll?

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each...

Stingray, you are incredibly full of shit. You did not like 32AC, so be it. But that doesn't allow you to claim things so wrong.

$50 says that Stingray liked AC32. $100 says Stingray will like AC34 more than AC33. And he loved AC33.

 

His question went right over your head. IM would/will love that question.

 

laugh.gif

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each...

Stingray, you are incredibly full of shit. You did not like 32AC, so be it. But that doesn't allow you to claim things so wrong.

$50 says that Stingray liked AC32. $100 says Stingray will like AC34 more than AC33. And he loved AC33.

 

His question went right over your head. IM would/will love that question.

Lol, yep - and thanks for getting it.

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each, sailing for months on end 3 miles off shore from now/poverty-racked Valencia, with a tedious 3 year lead up of thoroughly Alinghi-dominated 'Acts' that nobody ever heard of or cared about, in venues almost nobody could even place, and with not even sound allowed off the boats, and with not even any live TV anywhere in the US all the way until the LV final??

 

Why not? Are you absolutely sure it's not 'Too great of a step'?

 

 

Yuse talkin' to me?

 

 

I do not think that was the point I am asking about, at least make them V6's..............................

 

 

And we do not have to worry about Alinghi stinkin'-up the place.

 

Point is, they took a great leap, but maybe a smaller cliff would have been better.

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i wrote this last may...just storing it here so when i print the thread i'll have it!

 

"And finally, give up any hope you might have that TV will cover this event on their own dime; until at least one Cup cycle proves that people will watch it, you're gonna have to pay US networks full price and recoup your costs in other ways."

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Question:

 

The 34th AC has seen an unprecedented event;

 

The "early retirement" of the Challenger of Record.

 

How did this affect the event format and the decision making process during the transition time to Artemis taking over that role?

 

Once settled in,did Artemis have the opportunity to renegotiate any of the terms and if so to what affect?

 

 

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Four Questions for Ian Murray:

 

 

The two true heroes of America's Cup event organisation have to be Noel Robins and Dyer Jones. I dare say these are the men that gave us the best America's Cup sailing ever ('87 Freemantle '07 Valencia).

 

 

Despite Oracle's criticism, ACM delivered an amazing 32nd Cup in Valencia. Quantum leaps were made towards media but the quality of the on the water race management was never compromised. (No "Ainslie" incidents).

 

I think it's fair to credit Dyer Jones for running the 32nd Cup the way he did. He placed the sailors, sailing, and most important the deep rooted traditions and values of both Louis Vuitton and the America's Cup above it all, resisting pressure from media, sponsors, individual teams and last but not least Alinghy (!) if he felt the core values of the LVC and the AC could be compromised.

 

Q1

 

To what degree do men like Dyer Jones and Noel Robbins serve as a role model for Ian Murray ?

 

 

Q2

 

If the involvement of BMW Oracle in the event format and daily decision making is taken as a measure, is the promise of independence for ACEA coming true?

 

 

Q3

 

In which areas does he feel that his independence is greater than what Dyer Jones was able to display in Valencia or Noel Robbins in Freemantle?

 

 

Q4

 

Can the competitors count on Murray as much as they could count on Robbins and Jones to ensure the interest of the best possible boatrace prevails over media coverage and sponsorship interests?

 

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Q: Have you two considered just scrapping the whole thing and going back to where the finalist teams all have plodding 2 boats-fulls of 5 yr old V5's, with 17 crew each...

Stingray, you are incredibly full of shit. You did not like 32AC, so be it. But that doesn't allow you to claim things so wrong.

$50 says that Stingray liked AC32. $100 says Stingray will like AC34 more than AC33. And he loved AC33.

 

His question went right over your head. IM would/will love that question.

 

PS in unrelated matters: is that guy Stingray still on the Oracle payroll?

 

laugh.gif

 

good question for worth -less interview --now that he showed up to stupervise --Iian m

 

how many bs puppets does / ggyc -acea have here besides spinray and sw soiler

 

and why did ggyc need to get a CALIFORNIA LIMITED LIABILITY CORPORATION for sf fiasco --acea is a shell corp for ggyc

 

but ggyc still is liable and getting sued --

 

hilarious

 

laugh.gif

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A nice softball opening might be to ask IM about the '87 Match he skippered. Did he think S&S would beat Plastic Fantastic, did he really think Kookaburra III could beat either one, etc?

 

It is the 25th anniversary after all.

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A nice softball opening might be to ask IM about the '87 Match he skippered. Did he think S&S would beat Plastic Fantastic, did he really think Kookaburra III could beat either one, etc?

 

It is the 25th anniversary after all.

 

Not sure I would bring that one up.......or sailing 'Advance' in Newport from '83 either.

 

If asking a question from '87, how about the bomb threat in race 3?

 

His response at the time was: "so what's the bad news?"

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A nice softball opening might be to ask IM about the '87 Match he skippered. Did he think S&S would beat Plastic Fantastic, did he really think Kookaburra III could beat either one, etc?

 

It is the 25th anniversary after all.

 

Not sure I would bring that one up.......or sailing 'Advance' in Newport from '83 either.

 

If asking a question from '87, how about the bomb threat in race 3?

 

His response at the time was: "so what's the bad news?"

 

laugh.gif

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No prob. if you have anything that might've popped up afterwards (i.e. 'i wish i'd have asked him...'), I'd appreciate you PM'ing it over.

Thanks, again I appreciate the opportunity.

 

My questions were answered, most of which are probably not suitable for a public airing given the issues of what was taking place in SD at the time. If I think of anything I'll send it to you.

 

 

 

WOW

 

you dont see that to often

 

ADMIRAL CLEAN talking with the ggyc -REAR ADMIRAL laugh.gif

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We are almost definitely not going to have time to get into much personal stuff or ancient history. Sorry, but I don't think I'll have much more than a half hour or so, and that's barely enough time to even get into the three contentious areas of AC management right now much less historical races

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We are almost definitely not going to have time to get into much personal stuff or ancient history. Sorry, but I don't think I'll have much more than a half hour or so, and that's barely enough time to even get into the three contentious areas of AC management right now much less historical races

Understandable.

 

Would be cool if they are free to confirm this one, it's big news if true.

 

I just heard last night Greencom has committed

for the LV Cup

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I just heard last night Greencom has committed

for the LV Cup

 

On that front,

 

Green Comm Racing announces "USA BOUND" as a Partner in the Bay Area Brescia-Valencia, San Anselmo (California)

 

Green Comm Racing, the Italian-Spanish Challenger to the 34th America’s Cup, announces today a partnership with USBound, based in San Anselmo (California), to support and coordinate the overall logistics of the Green Comm Racing Team in the Bay Area.

 

The goal of the partnership with USA BOUND is to speed up the organization of the Green Comm Racing Team in the Bay Area: with a little more than one year to go, before the final phase of the America’s Cup will be taking place in San Francisco, it is of critical importance to ramp up the team’s operations in the Bay Area.

 

contd

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Try and ask about the time he is putting into sailing SF bay and getting to know the issues here. I don't know how much experience he has here but there is a lot to understand about the effects of our very strong currents and tidal condontions, as qwell as the effects of alcatraz and the surrounding hills on the breezes, etc. Just be interesting to know if he is getting to sail SF bay at all.

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and chiming in for Outlaw's Q 2 which is a very important one... put another way, with Oracle's input into decisions, is ACRM as the "independent" race organizer, is IM able to be as independent as he thinks is good for the regatta, keeping in mind that the defender has certain rights to organize the next AC. I think you know what we're getting at here and can properly phrase the question.

 

Looking forward to this one.

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My question is: would it be wiser to:

1. Delay the AC34 until 2014 to allow more time for development of teams and fund raising.

2. Try to get more American Yacht Clubs involved. With the lawsuit from the African Diaspor Group, it could be great PR to have them challenge the Defenders.

3. Consider getting a famous group or person involved like Tom Cruise or a Lebron James.

4. Also need to develop a TV deal. If Comcast Sports is the best we can do, so be it, but need a US TV deal.

5. Bigger question is what are you guys doing to make the sailors more human like other athletes in sports?

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For RW: What role does nationality play in the longer term marketing of the AC? If you had to do it over, would you have greater emphasis on nationality?

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"5. Bigger question is what are you guys doing to make the sailors more human like other athletes in sports?" (sailingman)

 

I'll bite. How about more highly publicized auto wrecks in newport r.i.?

 

(insert relevant emoticon)

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Did they still have that checkered (chequered) flag at SD?

 

They ditched the flag but I think the finish line was still highlighted with it.

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great comments-all of them.

 

 

-in some ways this is the Alinghi legacy;

a mistake to try and turn the America's cup into a sailing league or sports tour.

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-in some ways this is the Alinghi legacy;

a mistake to try and turn the America's cup into a sailing league or sports tour.

 

Very true. Right intentions, methodology somewhat ahead of its time, in light of OR's shenanigans with their poodle CoRs...smile.gif

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We are almost definitely not going to have time to get into much personal stuff or ancient history. Sorry, but I don't think I'll have much more than a half hour or so, and that's barely enough time to even get into the three contentious areas of AC management right now much less historical races

Which three are you planning to ask them about?

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Clean,

I spoke with Coutts (and other AC heads) in SD about the state of sailing here in the U.S., and they seem systemically and painfully unaware of how sailing works here as compared to other parts of the world where sailing is more mainstream. The overblown projected attendance numbers, the supposed great benefit to the local SF economy, and the optimistic view of how the AC will benefit the SF Sailing Business Community, all seem like a pipe-dream to woo the community into believing the hype. If you read the comments in any of the SF media articles, you'll quickly realize that there is a developing backlash from the community at large, and and more seriously, a developing backlash from Bay Area sailing (and waterfront) related businesses.

 

Have the AC powers ever or will they ever consult with the sailing/ waterfront business community, in an effort to:

 

1) Better develop their marketing strategy, so that it's more in line with the reality with regards to the lack of interest in sailing here in the States?

2) Benefit sailors, and especially youth sailing, here in The Bay?

 

There is a ton of talent here in NorCal that the AC could potentially tap to make the AC feel more inclusive, thereby garnering significantly more support.

 

As it seems right now, the AC is a freight train barreling down the wrong track. It just left the station, and forgot to pick up its passengers, whom may be able to properly redirect it.

 

No offense meant.

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We are almost definitely not going to have time to get into much personal stuff or ancient history. Sorry, but I don't think I'll have much more than a half hour or so, and that's barely enough time to even get into the three contentious areas of AC management right now much less historical races

Which three are you planning to ask them about?

 

___ Kookaburra III

 

 

___ Advance

 

 

___ The Bomb Threat

 

 

 

Make your mark. :P

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"...the reality with regards to the lack of interest in sailing here in the States?

 

There is a ton of talent here in NorCal that the AC could potentially tap to make the AC feel more inclusive, thereby garnering significantly more support.

 

As it seems right now, the AC is a freight train barreling down the wrong track. It just left the station, and forgot to pick up its passengers, whom may be able to properly redirect it.

 

No offense meant." (SCR)

 

I think you are missing the point. There is huge interest in sailing in the us. That is a fact.

 

AC alphabet has miscalculated. US perception is that the ac is american. Acceptance of a foreign built fleet, a foreign work force, and an ill advised revamp of the selection series, with the foreign and unfamiliar ac-45s compounded the problem. Now it is becoming clear that ac alphabet has barred an interested american team from competing. Not to mention aligning with the unpopular us congress to circumvent the jones act.

Combine that with the credibility issues that are obvious, and what has occurred is a generated lack of interest in the ac.

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I think you are missing the point. There is huge interest in sailing in the us. That is a fact.

 

 

I'm willing to agree that we disagree on that point, but even if it were true, yes, there has been a huge "miscalculation". I'll bet that we can agree that there is huge interest in NASCAR, football, baseball, basketball, etc., but in sailing?

 

There may be interest in sailing, but I wouldn't call it huge. I think that what interest there is in sailing here in The States is mostly in actually DOING it, and not WATCHING it; still, I wouldn't call it huge.

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3. Consider getting a famous group or person involved like Tom Cruise or a Lebron James.

 

 

What a strange duo to think of. Anyone else, or are those two the key to it all?

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3. Consider getting a famous group or person involved like Tom Cruise or a Lebron James.

 

 

What a strange duo to think of. Anyone else, or are those two the key to it all?

Ellen DeGeneres and Roseanne Barr?

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3. Consider getting a famous group or person involved like Tom Cruise or a Lebron James.

 

 

What a strange duo to think of. Anyone else, or are those two the key to it all?

Ellen DeGeneres and Roseanne Barr?

 

I'd prefer Ellen and Portia. Yum.

 

I think I made Murray miss his flight to Australia. Good hour long discussion, probably got to about 6 of the ten million questions above. The boys got to a lot of them themselves though, and I think it went well - well enough for a repeat interview next month. Hey Jeremy - can I call it "Cup Chat?" ;)

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I think you are missing the point. There is huge interest in sailing in the us. That is a fact.

 

AC alphabet has miscalculated. US perception is that the ac is american. Acceptance of a foreign built fleet, a foreign work force, and an ill advised revamp of the selection series, with the foreign and unfamiliar ac-45s compounded the problem.

If what you say is correct, you are simply confirming the steriotype of Americans being totally insular, and frankly, I don't believe it. How did Indicar is so popular when all the cars are made overseas, as are most of the engines, and there are a fair number of overseas drivers at the top. Sorry, AC Alphabet has made lots of mistakes and is a long way off where it should be, but I call bullshit on your comments about "foreign" being an issue.

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I think you are missing the point. There is huge interest in sailing in the us. That is a fact.

 

AC alphabet has miscalculated. US perception is that the ac is american. Acceptance of a foreign built fleet, a foreign work force, and an ill advised revamp of the selection series, with the foreign and unfamiliar ac-45s compounded the problem.

If what you say is correct, you are simply confirming the steriotype of Americans being totally insular, and frankly, I don't believe it. How did Indicar is so popular when all the cars are made overseas, as are most of the engines, and there are a fair number of overseas drivers at the top. Sorry, AC Alphabet has made lots of mistakes and is a long way off where it should be, but I call bullshit on your comments about "foreign" being an issue.

 

You obviously have not been paying attention since the mid 90's with the IRL split with CART. Indy car racing has gone down the tubes, until CART dried-up and died and the IRL has been on wobbly legs. Since the merger NASCAR, Amercan cars (except when Toyota signed on) and all American drivers (until recently with Montoya and Ambrose) has gained stature until it is No 3 (good number) behind Football and Baseball. Several foreign drivers tried to dive-in from Indy and F1 but other than the two mentioned above have pretty much washed-out. (they have 3 wins between them, all on road courses) Now Danica Patrick is giving it a go and we will see how she fares.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head as to why that series is no longer the #1 motor sports series in the US, nothing the home crowd could relate to. And it may be an issue if the AC does not take-off with anyone other than the die-hard AC fans.

 

Currently NASCAR is working with the car makers to get the cars back to looking like what comes off the assembly line. The fans have complained for years that the cars had no bearing to what is on the street, so less to relate to other than the bow-tie, blue oval, or pentastar badging placed on the grill of the car.

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Pretty good interview with Ian in the latest Seahorse.

 

Achievements to date;

 

"What we undertook to do in 10 months, build 10 boats, create all these rules, build the SW and HW around that, TV systems. Plus assemble teams. We got there in time, which was pretty remarkable"

 

"Remember Valencia ? They were due to start on Monday and got a race away on Thursday"

 

But I'm sure people will continue to find reasons to bitch.

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Pretty good interview with Ian in the latest Seahorse.

 

Achievements to date;

 

"What we undertook to do in 10 months, build 10 boats, create all these rules, build the SW and HW around that, TV systems. Plus assemble teams. We got there in time, which was pretty remarkable"

 

"Remember Valencia ? They were due to start on Monday and got a race away on Thursday"

 

But I'm sure people will continue to find reasons to bitch.

 

how about spelling the mans name properly = Iain Murray

 

MSP is wright ... ewe dumarss :P

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Pretty good interview with Ian in the latest Seahorse.

 

Achievements to date;

 

"What we undertook to do in 10 months, build 10 boats, create all these rules, build the SW and HW around that, TV systems. Plus assemble teams. We got there in time, which was pretty remarkable"

 

"Remember Valencia ? They were due to start on Monday and got a race away on Thursday"

 

But I'm sure people will continue to find reasons to bitch.

 

how about spelling the mans name properly = Iain Murray

 

MSP is wright ... ewe dumarss :P

Hi fuckstick. You should know better than to think the pigeon scalper is "wright" as you say, but I guess your as dumb as he is laugh.gif.

 

Take it up with the editor of Seahorse, it's a direct quote from page 10 smile.gif.

 

I guess you didn't like the achievements either, so you can go back under the rock from which you came.

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Only 30 minutes? I thought they granted you an interview, Clean. Now it seems it was only a couple of sound bites. Well, can't say I blame them - probably only want to spend time with real journalists and not press whores that have been bought, sold and used, huh?

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Will you be able to get it uploaded tonight?

 

That BA one took four frikkin' days... Lol

 

Should be worth waiting for. Iain does better in a one-on-one interview than when responding to the disconnected questions posed by a group of general and sailing media. Reading all the accounts from the Viaduct Basin interview it seems he didn't really get his message out and they all seized on the possibility of only three challengers. I'm guessing The article in The Daily Sail came from another group telephone conference but it is more coherent and covers a lot more ground. It's a long article and a good read.

 

He reported they sailed the AC45s with the wing extensions in breeze up to 18-20 knots in flat water. Said they now looking for weight saving possibilities, even perhaps one less crew in light air. They are building AC45 number 15 and about to start number 16. Fascinating quotes about crew strength and stamina needed for 72s on San Francisco short courses. With crew of 11, one steering, six on the grinders, just leaves four for everything else. If teams want it, consider the possibility of extra crew. Some interesting comments on the complexities becoming apparent in wing design and construction.

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You obviously have not been paying attention since the mid 90's .......

So back in the era you are talking about, it was British built cars (Lola and Reynard) with mainly British built engines (cosworth) and just as high a number of overseas drivers (Fittipaldi, Mansell, Fabi, Villneuve, Gugelmin, Johansonn plus more)! In fact, traditionally, I alsway thought Indy tried to bring in overseas drivers as it tried to "prove" it was the leading race series in the world. Sorry, you might be right that it isn't so popular any more, but it isn't because the public are so insular that they will only watch US cars with US engines being driven by US drivers. I suspect it is more to do with the public waking up to the fact that it really was second best to F1, as seen when Mansell won in his rookie season while the American hero (Andretti) was humbled in F1.

 

But maybe this misses the point. I have to hope and believe that Americans aren't so insular that they will ignore the AC and, in particular, the AC45's because the boats weren't built in the USA and because they have not employed an all American staff.

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Simon, you can make any point you want to skew the argument. The fact remains ac 34 is not popular at this time, with the american public. Once you accept that, you can either use words like insular, and make excuses for the organization by insulting the people you are ostensibly trying to attract. Or, make adjustments to actually get what you want. Which by the way...is a viable event.

 

The point was made that even enormously successful sports make adjustments all the time to fine tune the product. We are not seeing that with ac alphabet. What we are experiencing instead, is to use american phrases, circling the wagons, and spin.

 

The impression I have now, is that there is no honest interest in attracting a big audience. The focus is on our recently famous american 1%, and the belief those people are all they need.

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^ The Coutts quote in RG's SailWorld article, that a 'major US free to air' network deal is close to being announced, suggests they definitely are going to press hard to attract big audiences.

 

edit, here

<b>In a media conference this morning, Russell Coutts revealed that a major television broadcast deal was imminent for the USA.</b>

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Americas-Cup:-Major-free-to-air-US-television-deal-imminent---Coutts/93760

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The fact remains ac 34 is not popular at this time, with the american public.

 

Hell 99.7% the American 'public' does not even know about the AC. I would guess that even half of American sailors don't know what's going on with the AC (eg multis with wings 2013 SF)

The impression I have now, is that there is no honest interest in attracting a big audience. The focus is on our recently famous American 1%, and the belief those people are all they need.

 

My impression is that the boys upstairs still want the big audience, but the boys downstairs have no idea at all about mass marketing, or even big niche (eg sailors) marketing, and are going to fall back to the high school level plan of putting up posters around SF.

 

They have blown the opportunity to do a slow building teaser campaign, which would have been the smart and efficient way to do this. But they still have time to do a more straightforward and brute force program, but the clock is ticking.

 

 

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^ In this day and age of nanosecond memories and instant gratification, who would remember Cascais even if they had seen it?

 

If that rumored ACWS New York event (holy smokes!!) happens shortly before ACSF, then that timing would be incredible. Huuuge attention grabber!

 

Some people here continue to doubt the power of a Larry Ellison. Having shaken his hand, I definitely dont.

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You obviously have not been paying attention since the mid 90's .......

So back in the era you are talking about, it was British built cars (Lola and Reynard) with mainly British built engines (cosworth) and just as high a number of overseas drivers (Fittipaldi, Mansell, Fabi, Villneuve, Gugelmin, Johansonn plus more)! In fact, traditionally, I alsway thought Indy tried to bring in overseas drivers as it tried to "prove" it was the leading race series in the world. Sorry, you might be right that it isn't so popular any more, but it isn't because the public are so insular that they will only watch US cars with US engines being driven by US drivers. I suspect it is more to do with the public waking up to the fact that it really was second best to F1, as seen when Mansell won in his rookie season while the American hero (Andretti) was humbled in F1.

 

But maybe this misses the point. I have to hope and believe that Americans aren't so insular that they will ignore the AC and, in particular, the AC45's because the boats weren't built in the USA and because they have not employed an all American staff.

 

 

hhn92 has a point which you may have missed..it's a little bit more complicated than Micheal being humbled in F1..

 

CART which was indy car in the 80's and early 90's was hugely popular, with a mix of US ....Foyt, Mears, Johncock, the Andrettis and Unsers, Sullivan and furrin drivers who you mentioned in cars mostly built in the UK...I don' think that the average fan cared where the cars were built because the racing was so good and Nigel coming over as WC was the iceing on the cake ...

Tony George who was heir to the Indy Speedway didn't think that CART gave him enough respect and decided to start the Indy Racing League, and that the first 25 cars of the 33 car Indy 500 field would be IRL franchise cars...

This caused the split which decimated the "indy car series" and has put Indy Car racing on the Versus channel backwater which has ironically morphed into the nbc sports channel, the channel which everyone here is so excited about watching AC34...

 

99.9% of the US population has no clue what F1 is about and apart from the 500 doesn't care about Indy car racing...and that .01% is the same as the US pop who have any clue about the acwsl ...

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^ In this day and age of nanosecond memories and instant gratification, who would remember Cascais even if they had seen it?

 

If that rumored ACWS New York event (holy smokes!!) happens shortly before ACSF, then that timing would be incredible. Huuuge attention grabber!

 

Some people here continue to doubt the power of a Larry Ellison. Having shaken his hand, I definitely dont.

Did this man crush occur before or after ehman gave you the vip treatment at the San Diego world super league of the world regatta...

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