• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

mr_ryano

Carbon Porn Sunday

Recommended Posts

Interesting main reef distribution. 1st looks sorta nominal (aligns head to I-point I guess), then 2nd is many times larger. Is the 2nd reef dictated by some other consideration, like location of upper spreaders or an inner forestay or running back attachment?

 

Looking at the sail designation code on the tack of the main it reads OMN-A. Guessing that means it's their offshore main.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The offshore boom will have many more layers of carbon to deal with the compression loads generated by the move in the position of the clew when reefed. When the clew moves in the geometry of the forces changes from the regular placement of the vang, clew, mainsheet, and gooseneck to a different placement of the clew further in on the boom, while the mainsheet position does not change, but the forces stay the same.

It looks like the first reef goes to the houses, and the second goes to the top set of spreaders; probably something to do with the strength needed to support the loads of the square top main.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interesting main reef distribution. 1st looks sorta nominal (aligns head to I-point I guess), then 2nd is many times larger. Is the 2nd reef dictated by some other consideration, like location of upper spreaders or an inner forestay or running back attachment?

On rough guess-trapolation, I get the checks to be at the second spreaders, and the 2nd reef lands the mainsail head at the 3rd spreaders. Looks also as though the square head might clear inside the topmast backstays when reefed to the second reef (but obviously not the checks).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

shweet...what is the record for that one. she have a shot? weather provided of course

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not unheard of. You can make booms really light if there's no reef points etc.....

 

Latest post

 

Mentions offshore boom, is Team Bella Mente going to swap out booms for inshore and offshore races?

 

Really lighter? How much lighter are you going to make a carbon boom? Take out two spinlock jammers and reef lines and the boom is what 6-8 Ibs lighter?

 

Serious question, what is the difference between an offshore boom and an inshore boom? Maybe layers of carbon? I know from experience, carbon vs. water, water always wins. Maybe a thicker boom gives carbon a fighting chance against water.

 

I know Scarlet Runner has two booms, you can pick up the inshore one easily with one hand. I think the offshore boom is substantially heavier, remember the offshore one has to be able to withstand 50kt winds, they aren't going to race an inshore race in those winds. So that's a lot of extra carbon plus reef lines, sheaves, and clutches... It's enough weight for it to make a difference.

 

and it doesn't bump the rating? inside the ???kg varience that prompts a re-rate ??????

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not unheard of. You can make booms really light if there's no reef points etc.....

 

Latest post

 

Mentions offshore boom, is Team Bella Mente going to swap out booms for inshore and offshore races?

 

Really lighter? How much lighter are you going to make a carbon boom? Take out two spinlock jammers and reef lines and the boom is what 6-8 Ibs lighter?

 

Serious question, what is the difference between an offshore boom and an inshore boom? Maybe layers of carbon? I know from experience, carbon vs. water, water always wins. Maybe a thicker boom gives carbon a fighting chance against water.

 

I know Scarlet Runner has two booms, you can pick up the inshore one easily with one hand. I think the offshore boom is substantially heavier, remember the offshore one has to be able to withstand 50kt winds, they aren't going to race an inshore race in those winds. So that's a lot of extra carbon plus reef lines, sheaves, and clutches... It's enough weight for it to make a difference.

 

and it doesn't bump the rating? inside the ???kg varience that prompts a re-rate ??????

 

 

 

 

Can't say I know what the deal with the rating is. All i know is they have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not unheard of. You can make booms really light if there's no reef points etc.....

 

Latest post

 

Mentions offshore boom, is Team Bella Mente going to swap out booms for inshore and offshore races?

 

Really lighter? How much lighter are you going to make a carbon boom? Take out two spinlock jammers and reef lines and the boom is what 6-8 Ibs lighter?

 

Serious question, what is the difference between an offshore boom and an inshore boom? Maybe layers of carbon? I know from experience, carbon vs. water, water always wins. Maybe a thicker boom gives carbon a fighting chance against water.

 

I know Scarlet Runner has two booms, you can pick up the inshore one easily with one hand. I think the offshore boom is substantially heavier, remember the offshore one has to be able to withstand 50kt winds, they aren't going to race an inshore race in those winds. So that's a lot of extra carbon plus reef lines, sheaves, and clutches... It's enough weight for it to make a difference.

 

and it doesn't bump the rating? inside the ???kg varience that prompts a re-rate ??????

 

 

 

 

Sure, it might. But these programs have different certs for offshore and inshore anyway - in fact, they might have different certs for (almost) every event to reflect the customizations and modifications (sail plan, keel/bulb, other appendages, etc.).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sure, it might. But these programs have different certs for offshore and inshore anyway - in fact, they might have different certs for (almost) every event to reflect the customizations and modifications (sail plan, keel/bulb, other appendages, etc.).

 

Ehm, Under IRC (primary rating rule for Mini-Maxis) you are only allowed 7 certificate changes a year and you can only have a single valid certificate at any one time. I know, that is probably not far off the number of events they will participate in but experience and settings will not be transferable with big changes and that counts for much more than a point or two here and there. Plus these guys are more likely to have reef locks than the spinlock jammers, like on the Volvos.

 

 

The difference in boom weight inshore/offshore is not much more than the food and drink that gets packed for a single day racing with 20 or so crew.

 

The real interesting thing based on the photos is that it looks the guys have gone for inline spreaders compared to al the swept-back rigs we have seen in the mini-maxi fleet so far. That should reduce the compression in the tube so BM probably has the lightest tube of the mini-maxis and can get away with lighter rigging as well. It will result in a rating penalty (IRC) though and obviously you need some pretty switched on guys on the backstay, runners and checks.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't you just get rated with the lightest boom and as long as the E black band measurement was identical you should just swap it in and out?

Off shore the boom weight can be managed by freeze dried over fresh or a watermaker going in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqee3TqapeY

 

Would that only be for offshore?

 

The boat will be doing mostly offshore this year, and you'd never use an A3 around the bouys. I'd guess the furler going to the bikes is as fast as a takedown line, and much more controllable for the reaching kites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Laminate A3's are a mofo to handle... especially on that scale so sometimes furlers are a much better option... that one looked like a top down? I know a few boats in the Southport race last year had their A3's on a furler at the end of the sprit and the A0 on a furler either at the bow or halfway along the sprit... leaving them both hoisted and ready for action allows for very quick changes without having to send anyone forward when conditions were heinous.... makes a lot of sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Laminate A3's are a mofo to handle... especially on that scale so sometimes furlers are a much better option... that one looked like a top down? I know a few boats in the Southport race last year had their A3's on a furler at the end of the sprit and the A0 on a furler either at the bow or halfway along the sprit... leaving them both hoisted and ready for action allows for very quick changes without having to send anyone forward when conditions were heinous.... makes a lot of sense.

 

Yes, it is a top down. Definitely a good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is interesting

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqee3TqapeY

 

Would that only be for offshore?

 

The boat will be doing mostly offshore this year, and you'd never use an A3 around the bouys. I'd guess the furler going to the bikes is as fast as a takedown line, and much more controllable for the reaching kites

 

Fingers, arms, legs, and eyes all crossed during this manuver.

 

Gets ugly at night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites