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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

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MR.CLEAN

Groupama Leaves Sailing and Soccer

40 posts in this topic

UPDATE - Groupama's sailing team publicist contacted us to let us know that a few mistranslated words can really change the meaning of a story. Here's their new clarification:

 

Groupama has posted financial results with a deficit of 1.7 billion Euros. Within the scope of the cost reduction plans among all Groupama’s subsidiaries, the sports sponsorship department is also having to make some choices:

1) Non renewal of the Lyon and Marseille football clubs at the end of 2012.

2) For sailing, we await the regulations for the next edition of the Volvo Ocean Race 2014-2015 before making an announcement about participating for a second time, as is provided for in the contract [between Franck and Groupama]

 

In any case, Groupama confirms its willingness to continue its partnership with Franck Cammas, with whom it has been involved since 1998.

 

 

 

 

Been wondering when the next shoe in big french sailing would drop. Now it has. From a piece in Le Figaro (google trans and original)

 

 

 

 

The mutual insurer Groupama intends disengagement of sports sponsorship in sailing and football (Lyon and Marseille), under the economic plan he has committed to improve its financial situation, said today its chief executive Thierry Martel.

 

Present since 1997 alongside Franck Cammas, Groupama intends to retire after the end of the Volvo Ocean Race, the browser just won the fourth stage, Mr. Martel said on the sidelines of the press conference presenting the results.

 

"We will go to the end of the race", to be completed in early July, assured the communications director of Groupama SA, Sylvain Burel, but "the result is more uncertain." As it stands, the partnership between Mr. Cammas and Groupama to run until 2015.

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I think they are, the article says their partnership with Franck goes through 2015.

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Talked to Groupama comms a few minutes ago.

 

Hi Mister Clean,

 

Groupama hasn't yet made any decision about the next Volvo Ocean Race.

 

They will wait for information on the rules and the costs before making any decisions.

 

Franck's partnership with Groupama lasts until 2015, and he certainly doesn't want to see an end to the fruitful collaboration they have enjoyed since 1998.

 

Vincent

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It unfortunately doesn't come as a surprise. I hope Frank can keep his focus on the race - it's very unfair to him to have to go sailing weeks on end without knowing if there will be still a boat to sail at the end.

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV? And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

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Talked to Groupama comms a few minutes ago.

 

Hi Mister Clean,

 

Groupama hasn't yet made any decision about the next Volvo Ocean Race.

 

They will wait for information on the rules and the costs before making any decisions.

 

Franck's partnership with Groupama lasts until 2015, and he certainly doesn't want to see an end to the fruitful collaboration they have enjoyed since 1998.

 

Vincent

Thanks, Clean. So, if Groupama can get out of the contract for a reasonable price, they won't participate in the next VOR?

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Well, let them dump soccer, although I have to support Marseille, (kid is a fan of PSG), and give that money to Franck Cammas. A sad news........Lorient in June is a must to have then, hope not for the last time.

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV? And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

 

+1

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That's the world of business and pro-sailing is business.

 

Let's hope this gives the Gpma team and Franck Cammas a formidable incentive to further shine in this Volvo.

 

Franck and his key managers built an extremely effective organization, that's their strength !

A nice buy-out in 2013-2014 - as it happened for others - twinned with a (hopefully) great achievement might trigger a new deal with wealthier corporations, there is no lack of those in today's world.

 

That's all we can wish them, I have not been a particular fan of FC but... he is a great achiever, I do not see him fading away.

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I think Franck & his great team has no other option to win the volvo this time without waiting for the next one! That is all!!:lol:

 

Then they will come back home after the big money/big joke AC34 mess and will joint for the AC35 in NZ on the newly mini winged cat class prepared by GD and they will win again!

 

Who said I am optimistic!! ;)

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A real shame. But I woudl be very surprised if any contract had been signed regarding the next volvo Race. And if one had I am sure it has a get out clause.

Givesw them some ammo for discussions with Knut and co about the next race though, now they are not a confirmed entry.

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV?

That may be the case in the USA but sailing is popular in some parts of Europe and sponsoring sailing can be more cost effective than sponsoring football for instance. I know of a small team who was bringing their sponsor, by several folds, more square inches of press coverage than if they had bought ads directly. It was a 60 feet trimaran in the 90s. The trouble with the volvo is that it is expensive and the coverage isn't great but not all series are like this.

 

And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

The economy in Europe is slow at the moment but not (yet?) brought to a halt. It could change rapidly but at the moment life still goes on, it's a bit like California in the US, things could get out of control but it hasn't happened yet.

 

Groupama is a financial company and they must have suffered from the Euro crisis, they may withdraw, pause a bit or size down (mod 70 are likely to be more cost effective for instance) but they've been doing it for so long that it must work somehow for them.

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That may be the case in the USA but sailing is popular in some parts of Europe and sponsoring sailing can be more cost effective than sponsoring football for instance.

 

This only really holds in France. In all other countries it's football first and daylight second. Some countries have strong sailing sponsorship regardless (thinking mostly of Spain here) but it's not the lucrative opportunity you seem to be suggesting.

 

 

The economy in Europe is slow at the moment but not (yet?) brought to a halt. It could change rapidly but at the moment life still goes on, it's a bit like California in the US, things could get out of control but it hasn't happened yet.

 

Even if things don't get worse it's going to be a long road to recovery. A lot of companies will be taking a harder look at how they spend their money and be more demanding in terms of ROI.

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As I understand it there is, or at least was, some pretty nice tax breaks for sponsorship of sailing in France. Compounds the situation a bit if a sponsor goes into the red.

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to add insult to injury, Groupama is a major shareholder of Veolia which, for different reasons, is in deep loss. Today, France is "dans la merde" with a banbkrupt economy.

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV? And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

 

At least did European companies put 4 boats on the starting line.....Asia 1 2. hand and middle east 1. US 0

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV? And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

 

At least did European companies put 4 boats on the starting line.....Asia 1 2. hand and middle east 1. US 0

 

Puma is an american company, the team was based in the us, the boat was built in the US, the skipper is american and the boat has a US sail number. How much more American can it get?

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[

Puma is an american company,

 

Agree that Puma Ocean Racing is Newport-based, but Puma ain't no American company bro.

Screen shot 2012-03-18 at 1.11.27 AM.png

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Puma is an american company, the team was based in the us, the boat was built in the US, the skipper is american and the boat has a US sail number. How much more American can it get?

 

How about an American crew? 3 out of 12 on the boat are American. The rest are mostly Anzacs, including the navigator who is arguably more important than the skipper on these boats.

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV? And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

 

At least did European companies put 4 boats on the starting line.....Asia 1 2. hand and middle east 1. US 0

 

Puma is an american company, the team was based in the us, the boat was built in the US, the skipper is american and the boat has a US sail number. How much more American can it get?

 

Very surprised you are that naive. Yes Puma USA sends the cheque but there would be no team with out the nod from World HQ in Germany.

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV? And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

 

At least did European companies put 4 boats on the starting line.....Asia 1 2. hand and middle east 1. US 0

 

Puma is an american company, the team was based in the us, the boat was built in the US, the skipper is american and the boat has a US sail number. How much more American can it get?

 

Very surprised you are that naive. Yes Puma USA sends the cheque but there would be no team with out the nod from World HQ in Germany.

 

You're right, I rescind my statement. Last comment was made after too many drinks and not enough double checking.

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When will people finally figure out that our beloved sport simply does not align itself with corporates and TV? And when will people figure out what is going on in Europe? The economy is absolutley fucked. What did we really think would happen?

 

At least did European companies put 4 boats on the starting line.....Asia 1 2. hand and middle east 1. US 0

 

Puma is an american company, the team was based in the us, the boat was built in the US, the skipper is american and the boat has a US sail number. How much more American can it get?

 

 

Very surprised you are that naive. Yes Puma USA sends the cheque but there would be no team with out the nod from World HQ in Germany.

 

You're right, I rescind my statement. Last comment was made after too many drinks and not enough double checking.

 

Can we take a moment and savour this...Left Hook admitted he was wrong...wow.

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Can we take a moment and savour this...Left Hook admitted he was wrong...wow.

 

I was also wrong in thinking that you were a generally decent guy :P

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original.jpg

 

They heard Dalton was getting a JuanK boat for the next VOR.

 

:rolleyes:

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You're right, I rescind my statement. Last comment was made after too many drinks and not enough double checking.

 

Can we take a moment and savour this...Left Hook admitted he was wrong...wow.

 

Possibly the first time on any SA Forum that I have known. I would give Left Hook great kudos for that.

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Been wondering when the next shoe in big french sailing would drop. Now it has. From a piece in Le Figaro (google trans and original)

 

 

 

 

The mutual insurer Groupama intends disengagement of sports sponsorship in sailing and football (Lyon and Marseille), under the economic plan he has committed to improve its financial situation, said today its chief executive Thierry Martel.

 

Present since 1997 alongside Franck Cammas, Groupama intends to retire after the end of the Volvo Ocean Race, the browser just won the fourth stage, Mr. Martel said on the sidelines of the press conference presenting the results.

 

"We will go to the end of the race", to be completed in early July, assured the communications director of Groupama SA, Sylvain Burel, but "the result is more uncertain." As it stands, the partnership between Mr. Cammas and Groupama to run until 2015.

Unfortunatley thats a poor translation and in fact for 'intends' it should read 'considering'. I would think any large company would be in this position with the present economic climate!

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Been wondering when the next shoe in big french sailing would drop. Now it has. From a piece in Le Figaro (google trans and original)

 

 

 

 

The mutual insurer Groupama intends disengagement of sports sponsorship in sailing and football (Lyon and Marseille), under the economic plan he has committed to improve its financial situation, said today its chief executive Thierry Martel.

 

Present since 1997 alongside Franck Cammas, Groupama intends to retire after the end of the Volvo Ocean Race, the browser just won the fourth stage, Mr. Martel said on the sidelines of the press conference presenting the results.

 

"We will go to the end of the race", to be completed in early July, assured the communications director of Groupama SA, Sylvain Burel, but "the result is more uncertain." As it stands, the partnership between Mr. Cammas and Groupama to run until 2015.

Unfortunatley thats a poor translation and in fact for 'intends' it should read 'considering'. I would think any large company would be in this position with the present economic climate!

 

 

thats the mistranslation you picked out of that one how about 'the browser just won the fourth stage' !

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Been wondering when the next shoe in big french sailing would drop. Now it has. From a piece in Le Figaro (google trans and original)

 

 

 

 

The mutual insurer Groupama intends disengagement of sports sponsorship in sailing and football (Lyon and Marseille), under the economic plan he has committed to improve its financial situation, said today its chief executive Thierry Martel.

 

Present since 1997 alongside Franck Cammas, Groupama intends to retire after the end of the Volvo Ocean Race, the browser just won the fourth stage, Mr. Martel said on the sidelines of the press conference presenting the results.

 

"We will go to the end of the race", to be completed in early July, assured the communications director of Groupama SA, Sylvain Burel, but "the result is more uncertain." As it stands, the partnership between Mr. Cammas and Groupama to run until 2015.

Unfortunatley thats a poor translation and in fact for 'intends' it should read 'considering'. I would think any large company would be in this position with the present economic climate!

 

 

thats the mistranslation you picked out of that one how about 'the browser just won the fourth stage' !

 

This is actually correct. A "navigateur" (sailor) is also an internet browser in French! ;)

 

 

 

 

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UPDATE - Groupama's sailing team publicist contacted us to let us know that a few mistranslated words can really change the meaning of a story. Here's their new clarification:

 

Groupama has posted financial results with a deficit of 1.7 billion Euros. Within the scope of the cost reduction plans among all Groupama’s subsidiaries, the sports sponsorship department is also having to make some choices:

1) Non renewal of the Lyon and Marseille football clubs at the end of 2012.

2) For sailing, we await the regulations for the next edition of the Volvo Ocean Race 2014-2015 before making an announcement about participating for a second time, as is provided for in the contract [between Franck and Groupama]

 

In any case, Groupama confirms its willingness to continue its partnership with Franck Cammas, with whom it has been involved since 1998.

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UPDATE - Groupama's sailing team publicist contacted us to let us know that a few mistranslated words can really change the meaning of a story. Here's their new clarification:

 

Groupama has posted financial results with a deficit of 1.7 billion Euros. Within the scope of the cost reduction plans among all Groupama’s subsidiaries, the sports sponsorship department is also having to make some choices:

1) Non renewal of the Lyon and Marseille football clubs at the end of 2012.

2) For sailing, we await the regulations for the next edition of the Volvo Ocean Race 2014-2015 before making an announcement about participating for a second time, as is provided for in the contract [between Franck and Groupama]

 

In any case, Groupama confirms its willingness to continue its partnership with Franck Cammas, with whom it has been involved since 1998.

Any backstory there Clean? Does the sponsorship give ROI, as opposed to the arrangement with the two football clubs?

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does it mean i can hope groupama 2 (the orma 60 tri) would hit the market any moment priced to sell? :rolleyes:

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UPDATE - Groupama's sailing team publicist contacted us to let us know that a few mistranslated words can really change the meaning of a story. Here's their new clarification:

 

Groupama has posted financial results with a deficit of 1.7 billion Euros. Within the scope of the cost reduction plans among all Groupama's subsidiaries, the sports sponsorship department is also having to make some choices:

1) Non renewal of the Lyon and Marseille football clubs at the end of 2012.

2) For sailing, we await the regulations for the next edition of the Volvo Ocean Race 2014-2015 before making an announcement about participating for a second time, as is provided for in the contract [between Franck and Groupama]

 

In any case, Groupama confirms its willingness to continue its partnership with Franck Cammas, with whom it has been involved since 1998.

Any backstory there Clean? Does the sponsorship give ROI, as opposed to the arrangement with the two football clubs?

 

No idea on the relative ROI, my guess is that the sailing sponsorship delivers far more internationally (especially the Jules Verne), while the football delivers a lot nationally. I don't think the company is quite sold on the VOR yet.

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does it mean i can hope groupama 2 (the orma 60 tri) would hit the market any moment priced to sell? :rolleyes:

 

I thought it was for sale already. They had an ad in Seahorse a while back offering 3 of their boats.

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In any case, Groupama confirms its willingness to continue its partnership with Franck Cammas, with whom it has been involved since 1998.

 

 

And so they should continue.

 

After all he has done for them.

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french link about the fact that Groupama will focus in the next year on europeen sailing programm with cammas with a budget decreased from 25MEur to 10MEur per year. No more VOR for them but maybe MOD70 or solitaire du figaro ...

 

They believe that getting out 100% of sailing sponsorship will be a big PR mistake.

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