• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

QLite

Holding Tank Installation

14 posts in this topic

I'm installing a 25 gal roto-molded Ronco holding tank in the v-berth area, just forward of the aft most bulkhead. The tank has been made to somewhat follow the shape of the hull. So as to evenly support the 200 or so possible pounds that the tank may weigh when full, I'm thinking of placing the tank where I want it and then spraying the 1"+ Great Stuff expanding closed cell foam all around the underside of the tank. Additionally, so as to not 'glue' the tank and foam to the hull I'm thinking of first laying down some mylar (aka 6 mil visquene) or large 30 gal style trash bags so as to create a mold release. I'd also tape this same plastic to the tank. After the foam has cured, I hope to lift out the tank and remove the foam plug mold and the hull lined plastic. Then I'll cut away where I need to for my outlet hose in the mold plug and just set the mold plug back into the hull. Then I'd install the tank with an aluminum flat bar bracket holding the tank to the bulkhead.

 

I've sprayed some of the Great Stuff onto different plastics including a piece of wood coated with PVA on a part and vaseline on another part. The Great Stuff released pretty easily from the mylar and garbage bag there best, next best was the vaseline (will make a mess).

 

What does everyone think of this idea? If / when, some water or effluent gets in and or around the foam will it cause Mould and will I be able to clean it up? It seems to me, that having a uniform light weight mold is far better than some marine ply or heavy fiberglass matting. I expect the thickest (depth) of required foam would be about 4-5".

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or constructive thoughts.

 

Attached is a rendering of the hull section and tank used for fitting purposes.

HoldingTank-V_Berth.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm installing a 25 gal roto-molded Ronco holding tank in the v-berth area, just forward of the aft most bulkhead. The tank has been made to somewhat follow the shape of the hull. So as to evenly support the 200 or so possible pounds that the tank may weigh when full, I'm thinking of placing the tank where I want it and then spraying the 1"+ Great Stuff expanding closed cell foam all around the underside of the tank. Additionally, so as to not 'glue' the tank and foam to the hull I'm thinking of first laying down some mylar (aka 6 mil visquene) or large 30 gal style trash bags so as to create a mold release. I'd also tape this same plastic to the tank. After the foam has cured, I hope to lift out the tank and remove the foam plug mold and the hull lined plastic. Then I'll cut away where I need to for my outlet hose in the mold plug and just set the mold plug back into the hull. Then I'd install the tank with an aluminum flat bar bracket holding the tank to the bulkhead.

 

I've sprayed some of the Great Stuff onto different plastics including a piece of wood coated with PVA on a part and vaseline on another part. The Great Stuff released pretty easily from the mylar and garbage bag there best, next best was the vaseline (will make a mess).

 

What does everyone think of this idea? If / when, some water or effluent gets in and or around the foam will it cause Mould and will I be able to clean it up? It seems to me, that having a uniform light weight mold is far better than some marine ply or heavy fiberglass matting. I expect the thickest (depth) of required foam would be about 4-5".

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or constructive thoughts.

 

Attached is a rendering of the hull section and tank used for fitting purposes.

 

 

The foam idea in interesting but it will soak up anything that gets on it. I'd go for a shelf that conforms to the bottom of the tank, sealed with epoxy and allows airflow around and under the tank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to switch to the black pond foam version of greatstuff. A little better w water immersion :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my $0.02 worth ...

 

no matter what solution you have for a holding tank bed, make sure that all your plumbing joints are accessible, that the tank is straight forward to remove and clean the underside and that the the bedding has zero porosity.

 

nothing can be finer - than poopy water in the liner - of my holding tank at 2am in the, ...morrrnin'

 

SD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the great feedback.

I've ordered the 4 lb density foam from USComposites. After removing and carving the mold plug I will apply a coat or two of West Epoxy to the entire plug. I'll also leave a void area under the plug if / when any moisture develops. Hopefully, this installation will go pretty easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the great feedback.

I've ordered the 4 lb density foam from USComposites. After removing and carving the mold plug I will apply a coat or two of West Epoxy to the entire plug. I'll also leave a void area under the plug if / when any moisture develops. Hopefully, this installation will go pretty easily.

 

It would have, had you not actually said this out loud. The head gods are fickle and easily offended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the great feedback.

I've ordered the 4 lb density foam from USComposites. After removing and carving the mold plug I will apply a coat or two of West Epoxy to the entire plug. I'll also leave a void area under the plug if / when any moisture develops. Hopefully, this installation will go pretty easily.

 

Good call sealing the foam with epoxy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of points:

 

The foam expands pretty aggressively - be careful it doesn't lift the tank. Think ahead about hold-downs, and maybe do the foaming with the tank full of water.

 

Most foams are rigid and brittle - that is, they dent, crush and crumble easily. otoh, The stuff referenced is probably better than average.

 

Some foams form a nice skin - I'd experiment with your mold release agents to make sure they don't mess this up. (but still coat it afterwards - note, some foams and some chemicals don't play well together)

 

For this reason, I'd try to 'form' some of the extra features as part of the foaming, rather than carve them in later. For example, lay a pipe or board down below the foam so that it forms a drainage channel. Heck, you could make your channel forms out of clay, and just remove later.

 

I'd still include some *other* supports that are strong enough to support the tank, but that's me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kirwan, good points. I am planning on (2) 1-1/4" x 3/16" aluminum bar stock braces which will hold the tank to the bulkhead as well as something to hold it down when healing, etc.

I'm also planning on laying down some PVC halves of pipe for a drainage cavity. I'll wrap the hull area including the drainage PVC area with slippery plastic as a mold release. I'll likely integrate other areas under this mold release plastic as well. Maybe I can work my outlet hose area and fitting into this as well. I've been considering clay to help create the unique required forms.

Thanks.

 

Couple of points:

 

The foam expands pretty aggressively - be careful it doesn't lift the tank. Think ahead about hold-downs, and maybe do the foaming with the tank full of water.

 

Most foams are rigid and brittle - that is, they dent, crush and crumble easily. otoh, The stuff referenced is probably better than average.

 

Some foams form a nice skin - I'd experiment with your mold release agents to make sure they don't mess this up. (but still coat it afterwards - note, some foams and some chemicals don't play well together)

 

For this reason, I'd try to 'form' some of the extra features as part of the foaming, rather than carve them in later. For example, lay a pipe or board down below the foam so that it forms a drainage channel. Heck, you could make your channel forms out of clay, and just remove later.

 

I'd still include some *other* supports that are strong enough to support the tank, but that's me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You sure you want 200 pounds of ballast acting way out there? Maybe rethink to center the tank front to back rather than across so the torque arm is significantly reduced. That weight subtracts from the righting moment and will significantly increase heel. When the tank is half full, on one beat, the top fittings will be below the sewage surface.

Also those joints right under the berth, I'm glad I won't be sleeping there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The foam expands pretty aggressively - be careful it doesn't lift the tank. Think ahead about hold-downs, and maybe do the foaming with the tank full of water.

 

Few points past this.

This stuff expands tenaciously. I installed 2 40 gallon fuel tanks with this stuff, I premade my tie down brackets and they had to go in before the tank was in. And the tanks STILL had to have extra hold downs as this stuff expanded.

 

Also you will get it everywhere and anywhere, make sure to cover anything you love with plastic, or it will be foamed.

 

use 2 of the quart home depot plastic paint things for measuring it, another 10 for mixing it, ie: measure, pour both into big container, mix like mad, pour, chuck mixed container as it expands rapidly. wash rinse repeat.

 

I wouldn't foam the tank full as you want to fully encase under and around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fill the tank with foam and move to Canada. You can pump out shit anywhere here. Especially Ottawa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats te deal with odors under the v berth. Im loooking at something similar in the power baot i stead of a portapotty. Dont really want either though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites